November 15, 2001

10:15 PM

Audio from Flight 93 - Pennsylvania(Realvideo) Somehow ABCNews got ahold of this and made it an "exclusive" on Primetime Live. Certainly chilling, but also seemingly exploitative.
posted by owillis (22 comments total)

Those would be intentional civilian casualties.
posted by owillis at 10:17 PM on November 15, 2001

(oh sheesh)

I liked the link, but damn -- drop it already.
posted by jragon at 10:25 PM on November 15, 2001

(by "it", I mean this ongoing civilian casualities argument)
posted by jragon at 10:26 PM on November 15, 2001

I think the obvious question after hearing that is, how on earth does presumably gov't-owned material (the FAA is in charge of these recordings are they not?) end up in the hands of a single television network as an exclusive? Did Disney and Co. pay the most for it? Is it a leak from someone working inside?
posted by mathowie at 10:27 PM on November 15, 2001

No, I'm not going to "drop it".
posted by owillis at 10:37 PM on November 15, 2001

It might well be a deliberate leak, given the growing public curiosity about Flight 93. This is the one flight about which many people don't believe we've been all that happened.
posted by dlewis at 10:42 PM on November 15, 2001

Well, you don't have to drop it, but what you're doing is essentially trolling, Oliver. Do you really think rational debate will come from that comment? From implying that those against the war don't know that the deaths in Penn. were intentional?
Anyway, I assume it was leaked. Not sure if it was intentional, cause it still doesn't address what happened at the end of the flight, which is what is in question to some people.
posted by Doug at 10:52 PM on November 15, 2001

If it were an intentional leak, it wouldn't have to address the entire disasterous course of this flight. It's a little something to placate an information hungry public. People are still seriously scared at the moment about the prospects of planes dropping on their heads, and really need all the details they can to make their own judgments about their safety. The authorities seem to have taken heed and have been particularly open and quick to release details of Flight 587. A good thing too.
posted by dlewis at 11:16 PM on November 15, 2001

"seemingly exploitative....I'm not going to "drop it""


so subtle we are.
posted by greyscale at 12:08 AM on November 16, 2001

Yes! Was the link posted to show just how exploitive ABC is, or to 'exploit' it ourselves by listening to it?

Did you follow the link? Why? Would you pass it on? Why? Kettle? Are you black yet?
posted by kfury at 12:18 AM on November 16, 2001

I said it was seemingly exploitative. On the flip side I can't expect ABC not to report it if they get ahold of it.

As far as the "drop it" stuff goes, we've been hearing for weeks here on Mefi from every left-leaning columnist in England and at home about how bad America is for hitting civilian targets, when we're the only side in this battle trying not to hit civilians.

I thought the content of this link was another reminder of why we're fighting this thing and the fact that several thousand innocent people were intenionally killed on 9.11, a perspective I find sorely lacking in these parts.

Are you black yet?
Well, for at least the last 24 years :)
posted by owillis at 12:55 AM on November 16, 2001

I know people were intentionally killed by the 9/11 terrorists, I genuinely think it's terrible, but as far as I know they're not *still* being intentionally killed. The act of reminding us implies that you think somehow we've all forgotten, as if there's this ongoing but unreported murder of American citizens. There isn't, and let's hope the worst is over. Meanwhile, how many of the 9/11 terrorists came from Afghanistan, the country we're bombing?
posted by skylar at 1:52 AM on November 16, 2001

Getting back to the recording itself...

I am surprised to hear the terrorist on the radio saying something about returning to the airport in order to have demands met. I assume that was just a cover story to fool controllers into thinking it was a standard hijacking scenario. Still, it differs from reports I've seen about passengers on some of the other flights being told to call and say goodbye. I guess not all the hijackers followed the same procedures.
posted by Potsy at 2:08 AM on November 16, 2001

Replying to Mr. Haughey, it is to my understanding, sir, that the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is in charge of regulating these materials, and not the FAA.
posted by GirlFriday at 3:20 AM on November 16, 2001

Good point Potsy, although these recordings only cover the communication with air traffic control. The second terrorist's message about returning to the airport to meet their demands, given at 9.36am according to this report, is likely to be the terrorist accidentally talking into the cockpit microphone rather than the PA system that any of the passengers would hear. After this mistake, no further communications take place with the ATC, up until the point where the crash site is discovered 10.07am.

The half hour in between 9.36am and 10.07am that is not on this tape (save for Cleveland's futile attempts at resuming communication), is where the passengers are likely to have learned of their fate, and where several phone calls were placed to relatives and the authorities.
posted by dlewis at 4:22 AM on November 16, 2001

I thought the content of this link was another reminder of why we're fighting

And herein lies a major reason for the tapes being given to the media. @ mos and change and as horrific as 9/11 was, the people's natural (and healthy) response is for the horror to fade. Look for example at the MeFi 9/11 thread and see if it doesn't re-open the psychic wound in your head.

Horror fade is one reason why we debate Afghani civilian losses and whether or not its kosher to bomb on Ramadan...Note, BTW, the Taliban getting ready for a Ramadan offensive. Irony thick enugh to slice with a daisy cutter
posted by BentPenguin at 4:41 AM on November 16, 2001

Potsy, from what I've read, it's my understanding that the hijackers never told the passengers their intent to crash the planes. They tried to keep the passengers calm by making them think they were returning to the airport, when in fact they had other plans.

Remember, up until this point hijackings had always been about "demands." Standard procedure was to placate the hijackers, land the plane, and deal with it from there. Now we know this is no longer the case.
posted by airgirl at 6:09 AM on November 16, 2001

Certainly chilling...seemingly exploitative.

Can this be a new MeFi byline?
posted by adampsyche at 7:56 AM on November 16, 2001

I saw the special on television and one thing seemed strange to me: They knew their was a 'bomb on board' around 45 minutes before the plan crashed, and they found out about the planes hitting the world trade center and pentagon around 15 minutes after that. How did they not have time to shoot down (or at least escort) the flight? From what I saw they had 30 minutes during which they knew the plane was being hijacked, and NYC and the Pentagon had already gone down. I guess it was just the shock of something that hasn't happened before and they didn't scramble in time?
posted by cell divide at 8:11 AM on November 16, 2001

I don't see how anyone can call this "exploitative".

exploit: 1: use to one's advantage

Well yeah...if ABC gets ahold of this tape they are going to use it to their advantage. But I have to think that it is to our advantage to hear this.

jesus...lay off Owillis ferchrissake.
posted by xochi at 8:20 AM on November 16, 2001

I am surprised to hear the terrorist on the radio saying something about returning to the airport in order to have demands met.

From what I've read, the transmission received by flight controllers was not intended for them. The hijacker, apparently unfamiliar with the radio equipment on the plane, believed that he was speaking to the passengers in the cabin, trying to placate them (as best as possible, anyway.) In reality, however, he was sending the messages in the recording to ground control.
posted by Danelope at 8:56 AM on November 16, 2001

As someone who was flying on September 11th, I at least appreciate the opportunity to learn more about what happened on Flight 93.

I think that the more information that comes out, the better ... it will be harder for conspiracy theorists to claim that "the US govt knew about the hijacking and did nothing to stop it" ... etc.
posted by purplecow at 11:30 AM on November 16, 2001