Is Legendary Comic-Book Vigilante “Judge Dredd” Light In The Gavel?
January 26, 2013 1:24 PM Subscribe
Since first appearing on the scene in 1977, Judge Dredd has been the comic-book world’s answer to Dirty Harry, serving as judge, jury and executioner in a dystopian future.
Now, in the latest issue of 2000AD, titled “Closet,” it appears as if the legendary lawman is coming out of the closet.
On the first page of the comic, Dredd is shown sharing a passionate kiss with another man, with a caption reading: “I guess, somehow, I’d always known I was gay. I was just too scared to admit it.”
Note: these links contain SPOILERS.
Writer Rob Williams said Dredd's sexuality - whatever it is - was buried beneath his love for the law.
He said: "Although, can you imagine what would happen if that repression ever fell away, just for an instant? Sure, Dredd could be gay.
"You can't look at the original costume design of leather and chains and not see a fetishistic edge there.
"But Dredd's feeling are so deeply hidden, he is extremely unlikely to ever let them show."
Judge Dredd previously.
Writer Rob Williams said Dredd's sexuality - whatever it is - was buried beneath his love for the law.
He said: "Although, can you imagine what would happen if that repression ever fell away, just for an instant? Sure, Dredd could be gay.
"You can't look at the original costume design of leather and chains and not see a fetishistic edge there.
"But Dredd's feeling are so deeply hidden, he is extremely unlikely to ever let them show."
Judge Dredd previously.
The structure of this post being set up to preserve the surprise, even as some of the links make it pretty clear, I'm not sure how to discuss this one.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:40 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:40 PM on January 26, 2013
When a friend of mine tweeted about this earlier this week he said autocorrect kept changing "Judge Dredd" to "Judge Dress," which is a comic I would also totally read.
posted by Kitteh at 1:41 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 1:41 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Dredd and love can never meet.
posted by Segundus at 1:43 PM on January 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 1:43 PM on January 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I was really sure that he was going to break regs with Judge Beard. She was pretty hot, if a little mannish.
posted by codswallop at 1:50 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by codswallop at 1:50 PM on January 26, 2013
Puts a whole new spin on 'gaze into the fist of Dredd."
posted by GallonOfAlan at 1:50 PM on January 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 1:50 PM on January 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
ONE MILLION INTERNETS to whoever is the first to successfully mash up footage from either Dredd movie with the audio from this Monty Python bit.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:51 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:51 PM on January 26, 2013
I was pretty sure, as I saw this, that even if Dredd WAS gay, it wouldn't matter. Dredd is so incredibly focused on the law he wouldn't even stop to think about sex of any sort.
posted by Samizdata at 1:51 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Samizdata at 1:51 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
There is only room for The Law in Dredd's tiny tiny heart.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:52 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:52 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Everyone read the links before getting too excited about it one way or the other.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 1:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 1:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
I like how "being gay" is reduced to repressed sexuality, fetishistic costume design, and making out with guys in clubs. Don't even get me started on the actual cartoon. Was I reading some kind of special edition of Dredd when I was a kid? Because that looks like Homer Simpson in a jumpsuit.
posted by phaedon at 1:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by phaedon at 1:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [8 favorites]
GenjiandProust: "There is only room for The Law in Dredd's tiny tiny heart."
Half agreed. Only Law, but his heart is not tiny. It's got to be huge as it's the only way he could find in such fearless, unshakeable faith.
posted by Samizdata at 1:54 PM on January 26, 2013
Half agreed. Only Law, but his heart is not tiny. It's got to be huge as it's the only way he could find in such fearless, unshakeable faith.
posted by Samizdata at 1:54 PM on January 26, 2013
What does "light in the gavel" mean? How does this mean "gay"? [/confused]
posted by alasdair at 1:57 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by alasdair at 1:57 PM on January 26, 2013
What does "light in the gavel" mean? How does this mean "gay"? [/confused]
posted by hanoixan at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by hanoixan at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
"Light in the loafers" is a euphemism for being gay.
posted by phaedon at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by phaedon at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
What does "light in the gavel" mean? How does this mean "gay"? [/confused]
It's probably meant to be a play on the old cliche expression "light in the loafers."
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
It's probably meant to be a play on the old cliche expression "light in the loafers."
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:02 PM on January 26, 2013
I await artw's commentary, for it shall be deeply fascinating.
I've not read it yet, but it seems like a great idea for a story. In the interview Rob Williams pretty much nails the character, and he was part of the team for the awesome Trifecta so I would be expecting it to be good.
Oh, and self plug: My first Judge Dredd story (as opposed to just set in the Judge Dredd universe) is in the Jusge Dredd Megazine this month - preview. I'll certainly be taking Rob's lead as far as Dredd's sexuality goes if I get to write another.
posted by Artw at 2:12 PM on January 26, 2013 [18 favorites]
I've not read it yet, but it seems like a great idea for a story. In the interview Rob Williams pretty much nails the character, and he was part of the team for the awesome Trifecta so I would be expecting it to be good.
Oh, and self plug: My first Judge Dredd story (as opposed to just set in the Judge Dredd universe) is in the Jusge Dredd Megazine this month - preview. I'll certainly be taking Rob's lead as far as Dredd's sexuality goes if I get to write another.
posted by Artw at 2:12 PM on January 26, 2013 [18 favorites]
Ah, thanks! American slang. Very appropriate, Dredd is sort-of an American...
posted by alasdair at 2:15 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by alasdair at 2:15 PM on January 26, 2013
So it turns out to be a stunt after all, judging by the links.
Good.
Dredd being gay is meaningless, as he has never had a personal life; he's a man so hard, his veins bleed ice and there really is no place in his life for anything other than the law. It's what he stands for.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:16 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Good.
Dredd being gay is meaningless, as he has never had a personal life; he's a man so hard, his veins bleed ice and there really is no place in his life for anything other than the law. It's what he stands for.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:16 PM on January 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Dredd being gay is meaningless, as he has never had a personal life;
Well, he used to hang out with Walter the Wobot. Possibly his robophobic tendencies are a bit telling.
posted by Artw at 2:21 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, he used to hang out with Walter the Wobot. Possibly his robophobic tendencies are a bit telling.
posted by Artw at 2:21 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's what he stands for.
He kneels down before no man.
posted by phaedon at 2:26 PM on January 26, 2013
He kneels down before no man.
posted by phaedon at 2:26 PM on January 26, 2013
I never got into Dredd. (Shut up.) Where start?
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:28 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:28 PM on January 26, 2013
I like how "being gay" is reduced to repressed sexuality, fetishistic costume design, and making out with guys in clubs.
Me too. I also like the jokes about "kneeling" and calling women "mannish." Best thread ever. High five.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:35 PM on January 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
Me too. I also like the jokes about "kneeling" and calling women "mannish." Best thread ever. High five.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:35 PM on January 26, 2013 [14 favorites]
My first Judge Dredd story (as opposed to just set in the Judge Dredd universe) is in the Jusge Dredd Megazine this month
You must be pretty chuffed, I may even go against the grain and drop £5.60 on it! I will assume you do not make chavenet's schoolboy error and suggest Dredd is a vigilante.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on January 26, 2013
You must be pretty chuffed, I may even go against the grain and drop £5.60 on it! I will assume you do not make chavenet's schoolboy error and suggest Dredd is a vigilante.
posted by biffa at 2:58 PM on January 26, 2013
The big reveal of that news item was one you could spot from the ruins of Mega City 2.
The idea of Dredd having a relationship with anyone has been played with before, but it's a line that's never been crossed . Aside from radically changing the character, it would a breach of Justice Dept regs in the Dredd universe.
On a related note, I saw the Dredd film recently and it was incredibly good.
Also, well done to ArtW on the Dredd story.
posted by panboi at 3:02 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The idea of Dredd having a relationship with anyone has been played with before, but it's a line that's never been crossed . Aside from radically changing the character, it would a breach of Justice Dept regs in the Dredd universe.
On a related note, I saw the Dredd film recently and it was incredibly good.
Also, well done to ArtW on the Dredd story.
posted by panboi at 3:02 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Judge Beard? Really?
posted by dragonsi55 at 3:03 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by dragonsi55 at 3:03 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dredd doesn't get on with vigilantes.
I'm pretty pleased with it, not least because it has art by David Roach, who is great.
(On the other hand, I think it's a bit overly wordy, especially Dredd's dialogue - looking at it now I'd probably either strike half his lines or replace them with a disaproving "Hmm.")
posted by Artw at 3:06 PM on January 26, 2013
I'm pretty pleased with it, not least because it has art by David Roach, who is great.
(On the other hand, I think it's a bit overly wordy, especially Dredd's dialogue - looking at it now I'd probably either strike half his lines or replace them with a disaproving "Hmm.")
posted by Artw at 3:06 PM on January 26, 2013
If Dredd is ultimately outed as gay (or at least bi) in the series, his frequent associations with informant Max Normal the Pin-Stripe Freak would also have to be called into question.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:13 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:13 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course, we're talking about Dredd's preferences, whereas Tharg the Mighty, 2000Ad's figurehead, IS INTO EVERYTHING.
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:19 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:19 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Before anyone else starts getting upset about the title, it should be noted that the presumably gay-friendly queerty used the same title for its own article (which is the second link in the post).
posted by Curious Artificer at 3:23 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by Curious Artificer at 3:23 PM on January 26, 2013
"A little light in the lawgiver" may work better. That's the name of his weapon, after all.
Puns on "helmet" will also be accepted.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:34 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Puns on "helmet" will also be accepted.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:34 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Anti-fans of innuendo should probably stay well away from Devlin Waugh.
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on January 26, 2013
5 years in the IsoCubes for Jimping.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:51 PM on January 26, 2013
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:51 PM on January 26, 2013
I haven't really read the comics but since it flopped I need to point out again how great the recent Dredd movie was.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:01 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 5:01 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
The image prompted an extreme reaction from fans of the comic, with some praising the writers for tacking a sensitive topic – and others threatening to burn copies.
Well, that is an entirely reasonable response.
posted by Mezentian at 5:15 PM on January 26, 2013
Well, that is an entirely reasonable response.
posted by Mezentian at 5:15 PM on January 26, 2013
I saw the Dredd film recently and it was incredibly good.
I need to point out again how great the recent Dredd movie was.
I'm genuinely surprised. I don't mean to jump in all "Your favorite band sucks!" but I saw the film recently and it struck me as similar to the 1989 Punisher film, or the Ray Stevenson version—both of which I can sit and enjoy because I'm a fan of the character, but objectively speaking they are pretty bad films.
The other comparison that jumped out at me was to Total Recall. Some filmmaker takes a 1990s sci-fi action-comedy, strips off the comedic elements, and tries to go "darker" with the action. It didn't work with Totall Recall and I didn't think it worked any better with Dredd. Worse, the plot in Dredd struck me as the sort of short story that we used to brainstorm as kids in middle school. "Okay...the hero is trapped inside a building and it's full of bad guys, and he needs to kill his way out. BLAM-BLAM-BLAM." That's not much of a plot, Die Hard notwithstanding.
posted by cribcage at 5:45 PM on January 26, 2013
I need to point out again how great the recent Dredd movie was.
I'm genuinely surprised. I don't mean to jump in all "Your favorite band sucks!" but I saw the film recently and it struck me as similar to the 1989 Punisher film, or the Ray Stevenson version—both of which I can sit and enjoy because I'm a fan of the character, but objectively speaking they are pretty bad films.
The other comparison that jumped out at me was to Total Recall. Some filmmaker takes a 1990s sci-fi action-comedy, strips off the comedic elements, and tries to go "darker" with the action. It didn't work with Totall Recall and I didn't think it worked any better with Dredd. Worse, the plot in Dredd struck me as the sort of short story that we used to brainstorm as kids in middle school. "Okay...the hero is trapped inside a building and it's full of bad guys, and he needs to kill his way out. BLAM-BLAM-BLAM." That's not much of a plot, Die Hard notwithstanding.
posted by cribcage at 5:45 PM on January 26, 2013
Mezentian : Well, that is an entirely reasonable response.
No doubt, 2kAD would love conservative communities across the country - Hell, world - To all hold a great big issue-burning party.
Because aside from the free (overwhelmingly positive) PR they'd get as a result - Hey, each copy burned means a copy sold. :D
posted by pla at 5:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
No doubt, 2kAD would love conservative communities across the country - Hell, world - To all hold a great big issue-burning party.
Because aside from the free (overwhelmingly positive) PR they'd get as a result - Hey, each copy burned means a copy sold. :D
posted by pla at 5:53 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Can a robot be gay?
I understand Dredd was a clone. That seems more applicable to his sexuality.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:14 PM on January 26, 2013
I understand Dredd was a clone. That seems more applicable to his sexuality.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:14 PM on January 26, 2013
Worse, the plot in Dredd struck me as the sort of short story that we used to brainstorm as kids in middle school. "Okay...the hero is trapped inside a building and it's full of bad guys, and he needs to kill his way out. BLAM-BLAM-BLAM." That's not much of a plot, Die Hard notwithstanding.
But that's all we need. Avengers and Dark Knight Rises were bloated. Looper was good but threw in too much unnecessary complication. Dredd gave us a pure plot with just enough characterization, satire and moments of beauty (the Slo-Mo, the skateboards) to vary things.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 6:22 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
But that's all we need. Avengers and Dark Knight Rises were bloated. Looper was good but threw in too much unnecessary complication. Dredd gave us a pure plot with just enough characterization, satire and moments of beauty (the Slo-Mo, the skateboards) to vary things.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 6:22 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It must be a taste thing.
I'm not a fan of The Punisher, but Punisher: War Zone was a cracking film. Sometimes you just want to see some ultraviolence.
posted by Mezentian at 6:24 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not a fan of The Punisher, but Punisher: War Zone was a cracking film. Sometimes you just want to see some ultraviolence.
posted by Mezentian at 6:24 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dredd is a feminist classic.
That is mostly due to Anderson, she is an even more compelling character than Dredd.
From your link:
Original Dredd creator John Wagner was on hand as consultant throughout filming for writer and producer by Alex Garland, and nixed a scene where Anderson and Dredd kiss - Judge Dredd doesn't do romance, and neither does Anderson.
Thank you Wagner. Dredd and Anderson kill for each other, and would die for each other. What more romance do you need?
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:55 PM on January 26, 2013
That is mostly due to Anderson, she is an even more compelling character than Dredd.
From your link:
Original Dredd creator John Wagner was on hand as consultant throughout filming for writer and producer by Alex Garland, and nixed a scene where Anderson and Dredd kiss - Judge Dredd doesn't do romance, and neither does Anderson.
Thank you Wagner. Dredd and Anderson kill for each other, and would die for each other. What more romance do you need?
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:55 PM on January 26, 2013
I'm genuinely surprised. I don't mean to jump in all "Your favorite band sucks!" but I saw the film recently and it struck me as similar to the 1989 Punisher film, or the Ray Stevenson version—both of which I can sit and enjoy because I'm a fan of the character, but objectively speaking they are pretty bad films.
Whoah whoah whoah. Punisher: War Zone is objectively awesome.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:58 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whoah whoah whoah. Punisher: War Zone is objectively awesome.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:58 PM on January 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The comments mention the scene was more Dredd giving mouth-to-mouth than a tongue-in-throat snogfest, which is something, I suppose.
I think I would have cringed if they did something as lame as the old "mouth-to-mouth turns into a kiss" schtick.
posted by Mezentian at 7:02 PM on January 26, 2013
I think I would have cringed if they did something as lame as the old "mouth-to-mouth turns into a kiss" schtick.
posted by Mezentian at 7:02 PM on January 26, 2013
These panels are the cause of the controversy?
I predict that the voiceover is the punk kid's, and panel #2 occurs in his imagination. The kid will become obsessed with Dredd and start following him around, something horrible will happen and the kid will die saving Dredd, and Dredd will visit the kid's family and thank them for the kid's assistance and fine them for letting him out after curfew, or something similar. Dredd stories are not known for deep plot twists.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:56 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I predict that the voiceover is the punk kid's, and panel #2 occurs in his imagination. The kid will become obsessed with Dredd and start following him around, something horrible will happen and the kid will die saving Dredd, and Dredd will visit the kid's family and thank them for the kid's assistance and fine them for letting him out after curfew, or something similar. Dredd stories are not known for deep plot twists.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 10:56 PM on January 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
It is very difficult to keep scowling with a cock in your mouth. Take it from one who knows.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:56 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by munchingzombie at 12:56 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, thanks to this, I had to watch the latest Dredd film again.
I have to admit, I didn't have much hope at first. But as the movie went on, I started digging it more and more. And the end, I had to admit, it was awesome. And am enjoying it again tonight.
And, despite the comments about pretty Hershey not wearing a helmet because she's pretty, remember she's the only one that could pretty much take down Judge Death, so to speak.
I have some really yummy candy here. Anyone want one?
(And how can you scowl when you are getting some? Sheesh.)
posted by Samizdata at 1:36 AM on January 27, 2013
I have to admit, I didn't have much hope at first. But as the movie went on, I started digging it more and more. And the end, I had to admit, it was awesome. And am enjoying it again tonight.
And, despite the comments about pretty Hershey not wearing a helmet because she's pretty, remember she's the only one that could pretty much take down Judge Death, so to speak.
I have some really yummy candy here. Anyone want one?
(And how can you scowl when you are getting some? Sheesh.)
posted by Samizdata at 1:36 AM on January 27, 2013
Good stuff Artw, I would totally live in Gruff Rhys Bloc
posted by brilliantmistake at 1:39 AM on January 27, 2013
posted by brilliantmistake at 1:39 AM on January 27, 2013
Ummm, I meant Anderson.
(This is what I get for balancing five other things during a movie.)
posted by Samizdata at 1:48 AM on January 27, 2013
(This is what I get for balancing five other things during a movie.)
posted by Samizdata at 1:48 AM on January 27, 2013
Ignore me. (All except for the candy and the getting some comment.)
I am exhausted and insomniac.
posted by Samizdata at 2:14 AM on January 27, 2013
I am exhausted and insomniac.
posted by Samizdata at 2:14 AM on January 27, 2013
Original Dredd creator John Wagner was on hand as consultant throughout filming for writer and producer by Alex Garland, and nixed a scene where Anderson and Dredd kiss - Judge Dredd doesn't do romance, and neither does Anderson.
But... Shamballah! And arguably Kit Agee, if that's your ship...
posted by running order squabble fest at 2:18 AM on January 27, 2013
It is very difficult to keep scowling with a cock in your mouth. Take it from one who knows.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:56 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
I, uh, see what you did there.
posted by codswallop at 3:13 AM on January 27, 2013
posted by munchingzombie at 12:56 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
I, uh, see what you did there.
posted by codswallop at 3:13 AM on January 27, 2013
(And how can you scowl when you are getting some? Sheesh.)
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.
posted by dragonsi55 at 3:26 AM on January 27, 2013
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it.
posted by dragonsi55 at 3:26 AM on January 27, 2013
These panels are the cause of the controversy?
Read the article!
posted by wayland at 4:59 AM on January 27, 2013
Read the article!
posted by wayland at 4:59 AM on January 27, 2013
I loved the recent Dredd film. It was appropriately nasty (Slo-Mo anyone?), but not so nasty that it was unwatchable, and the world it creates is very considered and clever. It was just gorgeous to look at and very tightly edited, the story arc was compelling and the tension was well-maintained. Also Karl Urban's Dreddface(tm) was much better than the equivalent-schtick of Christian Bale's Batmanvoice.
posted by biscotti at 5:51 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by biscotti at 5:51 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Actually, munchingzombie is right. As far as I can tell. If you try to make Dredd face your lower jaw juts out.
Your teeth jut out.
Just think about it.
posted by Mezentian at 5:57 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Your teeth jut out.
Just think about it.
posted by Mezentian at 5:57 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ummm, I meant Anderson.
You're damn right you did. The image of Anderson entombed in Boing™ is one of the most heroic things I ever saw.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:07 AM on January 27, 2013
You're damn right you did. The image of Anderson entombed in Boing™ is one of the most heroic things I ever saw.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:07 AM on January 27, 2013
Boing™ was my first Dredd strip.
That Boing™kinda exists still blows my mind.
Stupid cola ads.
posted by Mezentian at 8:41 AM on January 27, 2013
That Boing™kinda exists still blows my mind.
Stupid cola ads.
posted by Mezentian at 8:41 AM on January 27, 2013
Some filmmaker takes a 1990s sci-fi action-comedy, strips off the comedic elements, and tries to go "darker" with the action.
I think this was one of the particular hurdles that Dredd faced - it was viewed as a remake of the Stallone film when it fact it had gone right back to the source material.
It would be difficult for me to be objective about the film as I'm viewing it as someone who grew up with the comic and is reasonably well versed in the history. I can't say what it would be like to come into the film with no pre-knowledge for instance, although the film is plotted in a way that I think makes this irrelevant.
Dredd works because they keep things simple. There's no threat of the city being blown up, there's no alien invasion, there's no larger-than-life villain. This is a typical day for a street judge, but there's a few tweaks (ha!) in there to keep it interesting.
Then there's Dredd himself. Karl Urban completely nails the character down with a tightly-wound brooding presence with the right degree of witty one-liners. Plus, he's absolutely brutal in handing out justice - in many ways calling to mind the original strips that Dredd appeared in.
Unfortunately, the Stallone pic casts a long shadow - and that film would probably be more highly regarded today if it had remained a film about Judge Dredd and less changing gear into a by-the-numbers Stallone action film halfway through.
posted by panboi at 9:33 AM on January 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
I think this was one of the particular hurdles that Dredd faced - it was viewed as a remake of the Stallone film when it fact it had gone right back to the source material.
It would be difficult for me to be objective about the film as I'm viewing it as someone who grew up with the comic and is reasonably well versed in the history. I can't say what it would be like to come into the film with no pre-knowledge for instance, although the film is plotted in a way that I think makes this irrelevant.
Dredd works because they keep things simple. There's no threat of the city being blown up, there's no alien invasion, there's no larger-than-life villain. This is a typical day for a street judge, but there's a few tweaks (ha!) in there to keep it interesting.
Then there's Dredd himself. Karl Urban completely nails the character down with a tightly-wound brooding presence with the right degree of witty one-liners. Plus, he's absolutely brutal in handing out justice - in many ways calling to mind the original strips that Dredd appeared in.
Unfortunately, the Stallone pic casts a long shadow - and that film would probably be more highly regarded today if it had remained a film about Judge Dredd and less changing gear into a by-the-numbers Stallone action film halfway through.
posted by panboi at 9:33 AM on January 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm fine with Dredd being gay as long as his helmet never comes off.
posted by Catblack at 9:37 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Catblack at 9:37 AM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
It would be difficult for me to be objective about the film as I'm viewing it as someone who grew up with the comic and is reasonably well versed in the history. I can't say what it would be like to come into the film with no pre-knowledge for instance, although the film is plotted in a way that I think makes this irrelevant.
I can register as one data point supporting the "pre-knowledge of the comic books are irrelevant" hypothesis. I knew the vaguest broad strokes about dystopian megacity sprawl where the cops were also judges etc. (For instance, I was a bit surprised when Dredd was giving voice commands to his gun for different ammo types; I had assumed that yelling "rapid fire high explosive tracer sparkles!" or whatever at the sidearm was just part of the Stallone vehicle's goofiness. And, fine, comic books. But still--just put a switch on the thing!)
But Dredd came across just fine as a super-wound functional pyschopath, who was clearly only "good" because of his psychopathy happening to be focused through the lens of The Law. Which I appreciated the movie playing straight and not beating the viewer over the head with. I can only imagine how many script treatments had a Thematic Exposition Fulcrum character having to deliver lines like "You're as bad as the criminals you kill!" and suchlike clunkers, and I was delighted Dredd didn't weigh itself down with any of that.
I gather that's very much a big part of the source material's character as well, and so much the better.
posted by Drastic at 10:43 AM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can register as one data point supporting the "pre-knowledge of the comic books are irrelevant" hypothesis. I knew the vaguest broad strokes about dystopian megacity sprawl where the cops were also judges etc. (For instance, I was a bit surprised when Dredd was giving voice commands to his gun for different ammo types; I had assumed that yelling "rapid fire high explosive tracer sparkles!" or whatever at the sidearm was just part of the Stallone vehicle's goofiness. And, fine, comic books. But still--just put a switch on the thing!)
But Dredd came across just fine as a super-wound functional pyschopath, who was clearly only "good" because of his psychopathy happening to be focused through the lens of The Law. Which I appreciated the movie playing straight and not beating the viewer over the head with. I can only imagine how many script treatments had a Thematic Exposition Fulcrum character having to deliver lines like "You're as bad as the criminals you kill!" and suchlike clunkers, and I was delighted Dredd didn't weigh itself down with any of that.
I gather that's very much a big part of the source material's character as well, and so much the better.
posted by Drastic at 10:43 AM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
I can register as one data point supporting the "pre-knowledge of the comic books are irrelevant" hypothesis.
This is actually the sort of question that Film Studies was created around. My Japanese Film Studies professor wrote a rather astonishing book that asserted the entire field of modern Film Studies was created in response to Kurosawa's film Rashomon. It created a primary question that divided the field into two camps. Can a film like Rashomon be understood outside its cultural context, without knowing the Japanese language or culture? Some say it must be interpreted in context, some say it can be interpreted solely by the Language of Film. Then he went on to write an essay that basically demolished the whole concept of Film Studies as an exercise in analyzing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. For this, he became a celebrity in Film Studies academia.
But I fall firmly into the camp of requiring cultural context. Rashomon can't be fully interpreted without knowledge of kishotenketsu, or the indirectness of Japanese language. With this knowledge, the film becomes an entirely different experience.
And in the Dredd film, it's the same thing. There are specific scenes that are references to specific events in important Dredd comic strips. The strips established a language of their own, and this film works differently for those who know that language. For example, when I see Anderson on her Final Assessment, I think back to the first time we saw that event, with Judge Giant. That must have been published in the first year or two that Dredd existed. I think I even noticed a specific reference to Judge Giant Jr's Final Assessment.
This is exactly what is wrong with the Stallone film. It mangled all the important Dredd mythos and turned it into a wacky Buddy Film. It uses all the Dredd tropes, but it doesn't connect them properly to the source, making them feel hollow even to the audience that doesn't know them.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:04 AM on January 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is actually the sort of question that Film Studies was created around. My Japanese Film Studies professor wrote a rather astonishing book that asserted the entire field of modern Film Studies was created in response to Kurosawa's film Rashomon. It created a primary question that divided the field into two camps. Can a film like Rashomon be understood outside its cultural context, without knowing the Japanese language or culture? Some say it must be interpreted in context, some say it can be interpreted solely by the Language of Film. Then he went on to write an essay that basically demolished the whole concept of Film Studies as an exercise in analyzing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. For this, he became a celebrity in Film Studies academia.
But I fall firmly into the camp of requiring cultural context. Rashomon can't be fully interpreted without knowledge of kishotenketsu, or the indirectness of Japanese language. With this knowledge, the film becomes an entirely different experience.
And in the Dredd film, it's the same thing. There are specific scenes that are references to specific events in important Dredd comic strips. The strips established a language of their own, and this film works differently for those who know that language. For example, when I see Anderson on her Final Assessment, I think back to the first time we saw that event, with Judge Giant. That must have been published in the first year or two that Dredd existed. I think I even noticed a specific reference to Judge Giant Jr's Final Assessment.
This is exactly what is wrong with the Stallone film. It mangled all the important Dredd mythos and turned it into a wacky Buddy Film. It uses all the Dredd tropes, but it doesn't connect them properly to the source, making them feel hollow even to the audience that doesn't know them.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:04 AM on January 27, 2013 [5 favorites]
I was a bit surprised when Dredd was giving voice commands to his gun for different ammo types; I had assumed that yelling "rapid fire high explosive tracer sparkles!" or whatever at the sidearm was just part of the Stallone vehicle's goofiness.
To be fair, despite their attempts to distance themselves from the Stallone film, the Dredd team completely hijacked the voice command concept from it!
The Lawgiver gun obviously presents a problem in how you demonstrate the different ammo types in action. In the comic Dredd usually barks out the type of round he's firing, but it's not a command but a handy bit of exposition. For the film, they've got the choice of carrying that over or putting in closeup shots of the gun's display. Obviously they went with the former as it delivers more of an impact.
I've noticed that a lot of later Dredd stories have tended to neglect the functions of the Lawgiver, often for the convenience of the plot. Which is why there's scenes in which street judges go up against Judge Death and try to take him down with standard rounds, rather than the obvious incendiary round.
Also, charlie don't surf sums it up better than I could. There are a lot of classic Dredd tropes that are wired into the film that long-term fans will appreciate and lend the film a greater context.
posted by panboi at 11:55 AM on January 27, 2013
To be fair, despite their attempts to distance themselves from the Stallone film, the Dredd team completely hijacked the voice command concept from it!
The Lawgiver gun obviously presents a problem in how you demonstrate the different ammo types in action. In the comic Dredd usually barks out the type of round he's firing, but it's not a command but a handy bit of exposition. For the film, they've got the choice of carrying that over or putting in closeup shots of the gun's display. Obviously they went with the former as it delivers more of an impact.
I've noticed that a lot of later Dredd stories have tended to neglect the functions of the Lawgiver, often for the convenience of the plot. Which is why there's scenes in which street judges go up against Judge Death and try to take him down with standard rounds, rather than the obvious incendiary round.
Also, charlie don't surf sums it up better than I could. There are a lot of classic Dredd tropes that are wired into the film that long-term fans will appreciate and lend the film a greater context.
posted by panboi at 11:55 AM on January 27, 2013
In the comic Dredd usually barks out the type of round he's firing, but it's not a command but a handy bit of exposition.
It's a command. The Lawgiver Mk II is voice activated.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:14 PM on January 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's a command. The Lawgiver Mk II is voice activated.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:14 PM on January 27, 2013 [3 favorites]
"Ricochet!"
"OK. I think you said 'high explosive'. Is that right?"
"No!"
"OK. Firing high explosive."
"Drokk!"
"I'm sorry, I don't under-"
*Boom*
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:54 PM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
"OK. I think you said 'high explosive'. Is that right?"
"No!"
"OK. Firing high explosive."
"Drokk!"
"I'm sorry, I don't under-"
*Boom*
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:54 PM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Was Dredd the first character to have a gun that only fires if he's holding it? Because besides Robocop now James Bomd has one, and I think real cops might too.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 1:50 PM on January 27, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 1:50 PM on January 27, 2013
I think so, bug I would be suprised to hear it was taken from some random bit of 70s SF - after all the first Judge Deedd mega-epic was basically a repurposed Roger Zelazny story.
posted by Artw at 2:09 PM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:09 PM on January 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
I goofed on the Lawgiver Mark II, but I do know that originally the concept of Dredd's gun was taken from Logan's Run (although more the book than the film). The Sandman weapon in Logan's Run could fire a variety of different rounds (and some were much more unpleasant than the Lawgiver) - plus, the gun was designed to be fired by its owner only. So AFAIK Logan's Run was the first time this concept had been used.
posted by panboi at 2:12 PM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by panboi at 2:12 PM on January 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
I goofed on the Lawgiver Mark II
We're both right, it's a feature and convenient for exposition.
I vaguely recall one of the special features of Roboop's gun is that it feeds ammo directly from a magazine in his arm, through his hand. He never has to reload. I'm not sure if that's in the movies, it might be in the comic series. But I don't recall ever seeing him reload, even in movie scenes where he just shoots endlessly.
The Smart Gun is actually a thing now. I recall seeing a concept model that would only fire in close proximity to an RFID chip in a ring on the shooting hand.
posted by charlie don't surf at 2:29 PM on January 27, 2013
We're both right, it's a feature and convenient for exposition.
I vaguely recall one of the special features of Roboop's gun is that it feeds ammo directly from a magazine in his arm, through his hand. He never has to reload. I'm not sure if that's in the movies, it might be in the comic series. But I don't recall ever seeing him reload, even in movie scenes where he just shoots endlessly.
The Smart Gun is actually a thing now. I recall seeing a concept model that would only fire in close proximity to an RFID chip in a ring on the shooting hand.
posted by charlie don't surf at 2:29 PM on January 27, 2013
Puns on "helmet" will also be accepted.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:34 PM on January 26 [1 favorite +] [!]
I'm fine with Dredd being gay as long as his helmet never comes off.
posted by Catblack at 9:37 AM on January 27 [1 favorite +] [!]
Told you.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:45 PM on January 27, 2013
posted by Paul Slade at 3:34 PM on January 26 [1 favorite +] [!]
I'm fine with Dredd being gay as long as his helmet never comes off.
posted by Catblack at 9:37 AM on January 27 [1 favorite +] [!]
Told you.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:45 PM on January 27, 2013
Chopper rules, ok?
posted by Smedleyman at 11:02 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Smedleyman at 11:02 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Don't jump Citizen! Littering the streets is an offence."
posted by mdoar at 11:47 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mdoar at 11:47 AM on January 28, 2013 [1 favorite]
is it possible to depict fascism without glamorizing it?
this is why i am uncomfortable with Dredd
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 5:05 PM on January 28, 2013
this is why i am uncomfortable with Dredd
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 5:05 PM on January 28, 2013
Comics: Hugo nominations, for your consideration…
(of course it'll actually be Girl Genius and assorted other random crap, the Hugos not being very good at comics, but Day of Chaos really is worthy of a Hugo.)
posted by Artw at 5:52 PM on January 28, 2013
(of course it'll actually be Girl Genius and assorted other random crap, the Hugos not being very good at comics, but Day of Chaos really is worthy of a Hugo.)
posted by Artw at 5:52 PM on January 28, 2013
It's out on iPad now if you want to take a look, also available as PDF from the 2000ad site.
It's a nice little story, a bit understated given all the fuss. Personally I'd think of M-C 1 as being a little more cosmopolitan - pregnant men, sex olympics and gay marriage are day to day things there so I wouldn't see the average cit batting an eyelid at someone being gay (I'd probably make the above mentioned Max Normal a complete throwback in this regard).
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on January 30, 2013
It's a nice little story, a bit understated given all the fuss. Personally I'd think of M-C 1 as being a little more cosmopolitan - pregnant men, sex olympics and gay marriage are day to day things there so I wouldn't see the average cit batting an eyelid at someone being gay (I'd probably make the above mentioned Max Normal a complete throwback in this regard).
posted by Artw at 7:22 AM on January 30, 2013
So, spoiler alert, but I guess the answer is no? Which is unshocking, but good, I think: one of the things I like about Dredd is how consistently he has been written as not asexual, exactly, but as clearly having so many priorities that sex is not really on his mind, ever. Which the Stallone movie dumpstered almost immediately, but one could say that of so many elements of the character...
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:42 AM on January 30, 2013
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:42 AM on January 30, 2013
Well...
SPOILERS
...if you've ever read a headline with a question mark at the end before you're not going to be suprised. But it's a neat little story anyway.
posted by Artw at 8:55 AM on January 30, 2013
SPOILERS
...if you've ever read a headline with a question mark at the end before you're not going to be suprised. But it's a neat little story anyway.
posted by Artw at 8:55 AM on January 30, 2013
...if you've ever read a headline with a question mark at the end before you're not going to be suprised.
I am the Betteridge's Law!
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:07 PM on January 30, 2013
I am the Betteridge's Law!
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:07 PM on January 30, 2013
SPOILERS: More of a "not actually a question" than a "No", but yeah.
Oh, and there's now some classic Dredd available on Kindle.
posted by Artw at 3:56 PM on January 30, 2013
Oh, and there's now some classic Dredd available on Kindle.
posted by Artw at 3:56 PM on January 30, 2013
BLOG Sex And The Megacity – Closet Dredd Overreaction
- from SFX, who like the story.
posted by Artw at 10:01 PM on February 2, 2013
- from SFX, who like the story.
posted by Artw at 10:01 PM on February 2, 2013
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I await artw's commentary, for it shall be deeply fascinating.
posted by mephron at 1:35 PM on January 26, 2013 [3 favorites]