An unlikely reviewer
February 5, 2013 10:00 AM Subscribe
"Girls" is a bit of a hit. Although it lost out to "Modern Family" at the Emmy Awards, it continues to receive significant attention as the 2nd season gets underway.
Nearly everyone with a entertainment industry related blog has mentioned it, but perhaps the most unlikely reviewer (if you ignore the fact that a large percent of the viewers of "Girls" are older men) is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who compared it to "My So Called Life" and "Wonderfalls" in terms of its being a vehicle to understand the "next generation". People reacted to his review, and he responded.
Added Treat: perhaps the best part of this is the fact that, in the process, I came across, and present for your viewing pleasure, the unaired pilot (almost identical to the first episode, but Jaye's brother and sister are played by different actors) of "Wonderfalls", enjoy!
Nearly everyone with a entertainment industry related blog has mentioned it, but perhaps the most unlikely reviewer (if you ignore the fact that a large percent of the viewers of "Girls" are older men) is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who compared it to "My So Called Life" and "Wonderfalls" in terms of its being a vehicle to understand the "next generation". People reacted to his review, and he responded.
Added Treat: perhaps the best part of this is the fact that, in the process, I came across, and present for your viewing pleasure, the unaired pilot (almost identical to the first episode, but Jaye's brother and sister are played by different actors) of "Wonderfalls", enjoy!
Damn it, now I'm going to have the Wonderfalls theme stuck in my head all day.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:07 AM on February 5, 2013
"Girls' heart and mind is in the right place. It wants to be more than the sum of its familiar parts. And sometimes it is. Maybe this season its voice will be louder and clearer and have more to say. It's worth listening for."
Karreeeeeeeeem. Nailed it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:10 AM on February 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
Karreeeeeeeeem. Nailed it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:10 AM on February 5, 2013 [10 favorites]
That "responded" post is pure awesome.
posted by Slothrup at 10:11 AM on February 5, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by Slothrup at 10:11 AM on February 5, 2013 [14 favorites]
Damn it, now I'm going to have the Wonderfalls theme stuck in my head all day.
Because maybe
You're gonna be the one that saves me
And after all
You're my wonderfalls
posted by shakespeherian at 10:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Because maybe
You're gonna be the one that saves me
And after all
You're my wonderfalls
posted by shakespeherian at 10:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
If you're all up into the Girls backlash, here's Lena Dunham basically looking like a gift-wrapped potato because it's cool to be ironic and shit.
I hope nobody sends her anything to wear ever again and she is forced to walk the red carpet in a pillowcase which she would probably like anyway, dammit. Because me and my fat ass would wear the HELL out of the stuff she wears, instead of making its designers look awful.
posted by Madamina at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I hope nobody sends her anything to wear ever again and she is forced to walk the red carpet in a pillowcase which she would probably like anyway, dammit. Because me and my fat ass would wear the HELL out of the stuff she wears, instead of making its designers look awful.
posted by Madamina at 10:14 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yep second article is even more amazing;
"...these critics are right. When I read Moby Dick I first had to convince the bookseller that I was a former whaler named Queequeg. When I read the poetry of Sylvia Plath, I had to pretend I was a depressed white woman with daddy issues. Don't worry, I used a fake ID."
The fact that KAJ is a clever insightful writer makes me love basketball even more than I already do a little.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2013 [15 favorites]
"...these critics are right. When I read Moby Dick I first had to convince the bookseller that I was a former whaler named Queequeg. When I read the poetry of Sylvia Plath, I had to pretend I was a depressed white woman with daddy issues. Don't worry, I used a fake ID."
The fact that KAJ is a clever insightful writer makes me love basketball even more than I already do a little.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2013 [15 favorites]
I think Kareem is the greatest, but my dad says he doesn't work hard enough on defense.
posted by lantius at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2013 [51 favorites]
posted by lantius at 10:15 AM on February 5, 2013 [51 favorites]
When I read Moby Dick I first had to convince the bookseller that I was a former whaler named Queequeg.
OK, but that would be an inspired bit of stunt casting!
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:16 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
OK, but that would be an inspired bit of stunt casting!
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:16 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
No this is Roger Murdoch. He's the co-pilot.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:17 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 10:17 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think Kareem is the greatest, but my dad says he doesn't work hard enough on defense.
Grrrrr LISTEN KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was on Blogspot. I'm out there busting my buns every night writing copy. Tell your old man to drag The AV Club and Sepinwall up and down the internet for 48 minutes! And DONT call me Shirley.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:19 AM on February 5, 2013 [13 favorites]
Grrrrr LISTEN KID! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was on Blogspot. I'm out there busting my buns every night writing copy. Tell your old man to drag The AV Club and Sepinwall up and down the internet for 48 minutes! And DONT call me Shirley.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:19 AM on February 5, 2013 [13 favorites]
Weirdly, the last time I tried to buy Moby Dick, I had to convince the clerk I was named Queequeg, too. Is this a thing?
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:22 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:22 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dudes don't even get me started on what I had to do to get a copy of Helter Skelter.
posted by Mister_A at 10:23 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Mister_A at 10:23 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think "hate" (I say disllike) towards Lena is because she is a mediocre writer and the show is honestly shit. Like a crappier version of sex in the city without 30 year olds and money.
posted by handbanana at 10:28 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by handbanana at 10:28 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
I actually have gift-wrapped a potato. I once used a bunch of my then-girlfriend's housemates vegetables to cook her a meal, and then individually gift-wrapped the ones I bought to replace them. This sounds quirky, but in hindsight, I think I did it mostly because I was bored and kind of a dick.
posted by notionoriety at 10:29 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by notionoriety at 10:29 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
I have a lot of Feelings about GIRLS and the milieu that it presents/represents, and I don't watch it. However, the only reason I want to get really into it is as a raised middle finger to people constantly giving Dunham shit about her appearance.
posted by 235w103 at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by 235w103 at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [12 favorites]
Is every fan of this show either a Hollywood insider or on Metafilter, cause I know people all over the country and I have not seen one Girls fan in the wild, ever.
posted by mikoroshi at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by mikoroshi at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have no idea whether this show is any good, since I don't have HBO, but I am really, severely bone tired of reading about how great/horrible it is on absolutely every web site in the English speaking world. Although, heck, Baidu is probably lousy with it too.
posted by selfnoise at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by selfnoise at 10:30 AM on February 5, 2013
Girls gets a lot of buzz, but it's not exactly a hit.
posted by asnider at 10:34 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by asnider at 10:34 AM on February 5, 2013
I recently finished season one and I hate every single character in the show but I still laughed out loud several times.
I think Dunham's appearance is actually one of the best things about the show. It's nice to see a main character with a more realistic body shape.
I started season two last night and I still hate them all. I'll probably keep watching it though, because it's funny.
posted by bondcliff at 10:35 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think Dunham's appearance is actually one of the best things about the show. It's nice to see a main character with a more realistic body shape.
I started season two last night and I still hate them all. I'll probably keep watching it though, because it's funny.
posted by bondcliff at 10:35 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Even if I don't agree, I can understand almost all the praise for this show.
But I cannot understand how and why people think it's so funny.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:37 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
But I cannot understand how and why people think it's so funny.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:37 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am at the point of giving up on Girls. I figured out that if I want to watch a bunch of 20 somethings be assholes I could just turn on Jersey Shore.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:39 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by P.o.B. at 10:39 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
That actually makes me want to pose the question. To those who think Girls is so great, why? What is the appeal?
posted by handbanana at 10:39 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by handbanana at 10:39 AM on February 5, 2013
KAJ is awesome.
About Madamina's comment - I don't know, but I read that more as her frustration that Dunham isn't really treating those gorgeous designer clothes with the respect that they deserve? That to show how ironic and cool she is, Dunham might be deliberately not tailoring/accessorizing/straightening her shoulders or even just working it. I agree that bodysnarking is totally inappropriate, but am not sure that was the point being made.
posted by synapse at 10:44 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
About Madamina's comment - I don't know, but I read that more as her frustration that Dunham isn't really treating those gorgeous designer clothes with the respect that they deserve? That to show how ironic and cool she is, Dunham might be deliberately not tailoring/accessorizing/straightening her shoulders or even just working it. I agree that bodysnarking is totally inappropriate, but am not sure that was the point being made.
posted by synapse at 10:44 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hmm, I've only seen the first episode and am no fan, but I think I can answer part of that. The show appeals to my anti-glitz, indie side aesthetically (with the bad sex, realistically awkward social situations, etc.) and is also one of the first shows that are truly the vision of a female auteur. Successful or not, that's a huge development.
The unfair thing about life is, pioneers along these lines face more than average criticism, and really kind of need to be world-beating geniuses to get through that. And I'm not all convinced Lena Dunham is. Hollywood's biggest sickness -- its preference for youth -- seems to have overridden an astute evaluation of talent. Otherwise, they would have thrown this money at Tina Fey to make the edgiest show SHE could think of.
posted by msalt at 10:45 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
The unfair thing about life is, pioneers along these lines face more than average criticism, and really kind of need to be world-beating geniuses to get through that. And I'm not all convinced Lena Dunham is. Hollywood's biggest sickness -- its preference for youth -- seems to have overridden an astute evaluation of talent. Otherwise, they would have thrown this money at Tina Fey to make the edgiest show SHE could think of.
posted by msalt at 10:45 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
It was as if, after climbing the Empire State Building and swatting bi-planes all afternoon, I suddenly decided to write a fashion article critiquing Ann Darrow's dress ("The tattered jungle look is so five minutes ago.").
KAJ is great. He should write a sitcom, seriously.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:49 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
KAJ is great. He should write a sitcom, seriously.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:49 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Man, we should just file Lena Dunham and anything she does under "GRAR-filter" because that is how it always ends up.
posted by Kitteh at 10:49 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 10:49 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
1st season was fantastic. Unfortunately the wad is shot. The 2nd season is, "huh?"
posted by uraniumwilly at 10:53 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by uraniumwilly at 10:53 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Looks like KAJ got a taste of the Dunham effect from his readers. "Conform to our expectations".
Though, frankly, I think it reflects more on the HuffPo readership than anything else.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:54 AM on February 5, 2013
Though, frankly, I think it reflects more on the HuffPo readership than anything else.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:54 AM on February 5, 2013
To those who think Girls is so great, why? What is the appeal?
It is the best.
Does that help?
posted by shakespeherian at 10:55 AM on February 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
It is the best.
Does that help?
posted by shakespeherian at 10:55 AM on February 5, 2013 [7 favorites]
I think "hate" (I say disllike) towards Lena is because she is a mediocre writer and the show is honestly shit.
And yet a small fraction of the negativity goes to the creators and writers of Two Broke Girls, Two and a Half Men, NCIS, Criminal Minds, Castle . . .
VOICE OF A GENERATION, I KNOW
posted by brain_drain at 10:58 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
And yet a small fraction of the negativity goes to the creators and writers of Two Broke Girls, Two and a Half Men, NCIS, Criminal Minds, Castle . . .
VOICE OF A GENERATION, I KNOW
posted by brain_drain at 10:58 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
...present for your viewing pleasure, the unaired pilot (almost identical to the first episode, but Jaye's brother and sister are played by different actors) of "Wonderfalls", enjoy!
If it does not have Lee Pace then it does not speak to my viewing pleasure!
posted by elsietheeel at 10:59 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
If it does not have Lee Pace then it does not speak to my viewing pleasure!
posted by elsietheeel at 10:59 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
I read the review the other day, and really thought KAJ nailed it. I also assumed that this is something he does regularly, and was really impressed by his approach, particularly as compared to most pop culture writers. It's awesome to learn that this was his first review of this sort.
His response is even better, so this post gets a favorite from me just for pointing that out.
As for Girls, my wife and I enjoy it. The characters each have aspects that make them difficult to like, but I think they also have significant character depth. And yes, they are incredibly narcissistic, but so were many of us at that age. With regards to character depth, I thought the Jessa plotline in the most recent episode (trying not to add spoilers) was remarkably raw (in a good way).
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
His response is even better, so this post gets a favorite from me just for pointing that out.
As for Girls, my wife and I enjoy it. The characters each have aspects that make them difficult to like, but I think they also have significant character depth. And yes, they are incredibly narcissistic, but so were many of us at that age. With regards to character depth, I thought the Jessa plotline in the most recent episode (trying not to add spoilers) was remarkably raw (in a good way).
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Its hilarious" and "its the best" don't particularly answer the question. Care to elaborate as to how?
posted by handbanana at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by handbanana at 11:07 AM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I figured out that if I want to watch a bunch of 20 somethings be assholes I could just turn on Jersey Shore.
Well, shit, with that logic...
If I want to watch a dysfunctional family patriarch mismanage a business, why watch Arrested Development when I could watch The Apprentice?
If I'd like to watch people who commit crimes get in trouble for their behaviors, well, screw Breaking Bad, fuck Dexter, I've got COPS and To Catch A Predator!
When I want to watch socially maladjusted people try to interact with the rest of society, I've got NO REASON to watch Freaks & Geeks when Beauty and the Geek is on!! Who wants to watch a freak more than they want to watch a beautiful woman anyway????
I've got very little reason to watch The Wire when I could just turn on Channel 6 fucking News.
Why watch Seinfeld when MTV's The Real World is just like that EXCEPT THAT IT'S REAL?!!? FOR FUCKS SAKE PEOPLE THIS ISNT EVEN ALGEBRA???!!!!!!
Why does anybody bother watching Twin Peaks for supernatural drama when we're got THE FLIPPING HISTORY CHANNEL!!..!.!
! ! ! ! !
Moving on, I'd like to say that this week's episode of Girls is probably the best they've ever done. Shoshanna and Ray, Jessa and whatshisname, and even Marnie and Charlie with whom I was worrying things would get stale. The subway scene made me squeal with happiness – I couldn't control myself, it was just so goddamn sweet and perfect in every way. I was worried with the cocaine episode that Girls was going to head off in a direction I didn't enjoy whatsoever, but that last episode redeemed itself and more.
Also, people saying that Girls is somehow an "ironic" pleasure or that it's a "hipster" show are so full of shit they could be part of Damien Hirst's next exhibit. Girls is one of the tenderest, most sincere shows on the air. That it manages to find such tenderness with a bunch of ignorant, trying-to-hard twentysomethings who are each deathly terrified of the thought that they might still have some growing up to do is exactly what makes it so damn good. It's not a celebration of their choices (which some people confuse, it seems, for it being a show that's simply about horrible people), but it's a celebration of the fact that we've all been that stupid, and, hell, in some ways we all still are.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2013 [40 favorites]
Well, shit, with that logic...
If I want to watch a dysfunctional family patriarch mismanage a business, why watch Arrested Development when I could watch The Apprentice?
If I'd like to watch people who commit crimes get in trouble for their behaviors, well, screw Breaking Bad, fuck Dexter, I've got COPS and To Catch A Predator!
When I want to watch socially maladjusted people try to interact with the rest of society, I've got NO REASON to watch Freaks & Geeks when Beauty and the Geek is on!! Who wants to watch a freak more than they want to watch a beautiful woman anyway????
I've got very little reason to watch The Wire when I could just turn on Channel 6 fucking News.
Why watch Seinfeld when MTV's The Real World is just like that EXCEPT THAT IT'S REAL?!!? FOR FUCKS SAKE PEOPLE THIS ISNT EVEN ALGEBRA???!!!!!!
Why does anybody bother watching Twin Peaks for supernatural drama when we're got THE FLIPPING HISTORY CHANNEL!!..!.!
! ! ! ! !
Moving on, I'd like to say that this week's episode of Girls is probably the best they've ever done. Shoshanna and Ray, Jessa and whatshisname, and even Marnie and Charlie with whom I was worrying things would get stale. The subway scene made me squeal with happiness – I couldn't control myself, it was just so goddamn sweet and perfect in every way. I was worried with the cocaine episode that Girls was going to head off in a direction I didn't enjoy whatsoever, but that last episode redeemed itself and more.
Also, people saying that Girls is somehow an "ironic" pleasure or that it's a "hipster" show are so full of shit they could be part of Damien Hirst's next exhibit. Girls is one of the tenderest, most sincere shows on the air. That it manages to find such tenderness with a bunch of ignorant, trying-to-hard twentysomethings who are each deathly terrified of the thought that they might still have some growing up to do is exactly what makes it so damn good. It's not a celebration of their choices (which some people confuse, it seems, for it being a show that's simply about horrible people), but it's a celebration of the fact that we've all been that stupid, and, hell, in some ways we all still are.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2013 [40 favorites]
I like the show. It really seems to capture the awkwardness of young 20-ish. To me, the reason I like it is about the awkward. Not many shows really are allowed to go there now, it seems to me.
posted by annsunny at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by annsunny at 11:09 AM on February 5, 2013
1st season was fantastic. Unfortunately the wad is shot. The 2nd season is, "huh?"
Please withhold judgment until episode 4, which is just fantastic.
I like Girls because it's relatable, funny, interesting, and clever. It's a fairly realistic portrayal of what relationships are like in your mid-20s if you live in a city and are sexually active. I love that no character is perfect and they're all kind of the worst-- because really, *everyone* is kind of the worst. Sex is awkward; life is awkward. Parents seem unreasonable, even when they're really being very reasonable. Guys seem weird and childish, but can still surprise you in the best way.
There are certainly some low points, but man, the good is good.
posted by Flamingo at 11:11 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Please withhold judgment until episode 4, which is just fantastic.
I like Girls because it's relatable, funny, interesting, and clever. It's a fairly realistic portrayal of what relationships are like in your mid-20s if you live in a city and are sexually active. I love that no character is perfect and they're all kind of the worst-- because really, *everyone* is kind of the worst. Sex is awkward; life is awkward. Parents seem unreasonable, even when they're really being very reasonable. Guys seem weird and childish, but can still surprise you in the best way.
There are certainly some low points, but man, the good is good.
posted by Flamingo at 11:11 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
To those who think Girls is so great, why? What is the appeal?
Because I find it funny. It makes me laugh, and makes me want to watch the next episode. Deconstructing and overanalyzing why it does so is both dull, and endangers it becoming less funny to me.
There are things that you find funny, that I would find unfunny, boring, dull or tedious. I'm fine with that. Such is the variety of the human experience.
posted by Wordshore at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Because I find it funny. It makes me laugh, and makes me want to watch the next episode. Deconstructing and overanalyzing why it does so is both dull, and endangers it becoming less funny to me.
There are things that you find funny, that I would find unfunny, boring, dull or tedious. I'm fine with that. Such is the variety of the human experience.
posted by Wordshore at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Its hilarious" and "its the best" don't particularly answer the question. Care to elaborate as to how?
No.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
No.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:12 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also, to steal a new phrase from tumblr, I ship Shoshanna and Ray so hard.
posted by Flamingo at 11:13 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by Flamingo at 11:13 AM on February 5, 2013
When I read Moby Dick I first had to convince the bookseller that I was a former whaler named Queequeg.
A:Hey! I know you, your name is Kareem Abdul Jabbar! You play for the Los Angeles Lakers!
B: I'm sorry, bookseller, but you must have me confused with someone else. My name is Queewueg, I'm the former whaler.
posted by sendai sleep master at 11:19 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
A:Hey! I know you, your name is Kareem Abdul Jabbar! You play for the Los Angeles Lakers!
B: I'm sorry, bookseller, but you must have me confused with someone else. My name is Queewueg, I'm the former whaler.
posted by sendai sleep master at 11:19 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Fair enough thanks for that insight latex.
posted by handbanana at 11:23 AM on February 5, 2013
posted by handbanana at 11:23 AM on February 5, 2013
I, of course, missed all the prior Airplane posts in a sad, feeble attempt to make my own. In my defense I've only seen a couple episodes of Girls and, being from the basketball-less city of Pittsburgh, I'm only really familiar with Kareem's acting career. What was I supposed to do? move onto a post where I can constructively contribute?
Anyway, I liked Kareem's post and I also like the aspects of Girls that I've seen. I think its a great show that gets all this press because it allows for so many conversations to be had about youth, gender, race, irony, etc. in today's society. Even if it doesn't always mean to open those conversations.
posted by sendai sleep master at 11:27 AM on February 5, 2013
Anyway, I liked Kareem's post and I also like the aspects of Girls that I've seen. I think its a great show that gets all this press because it allows for so many conversations to be had about youth, gender, race, irony, etc. in today's society. Even if it doesn't always mean to open those conversations.
posted by sendai sleep master at 11:27 AM on February 5, 2013
Well, shit, with that logic...
Cute rant, but that's not the logic I was using.
I would rather see, I believe the words you like to use is, "something human". The show has a ton of potential and I was hoping it would develop into something more, but instead it uses a largely facile and comedic outlook rather than attempting any real depth. So excuse me if I'm not really in the mood these days to watch a show simply for the reason of laughing at assholes.
And you know, other people like different things than you like so maybe YOU CAN RELAX A LITTLE BIT AND NOT YELL AT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY LIKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOU DO!!! Thanks.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Cute rant, but that's not the logic I was using.
I would rather see, I believe the words you like to use is, "something human". The show has a ton of potential and I was hoping it would develop into something more, but instead it uses a largely facile and comedic outlook rather than attempting any real depth. So excuse me if I'm not really in the mood these days to watch a show simply for the reason of laughing at assholes.
And you know, other people like different things than you like so maybe YOU CAN RELAX A LITTLE BIT AND NOT YELL AT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY LIKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOU DO!!! Thanks.
posted by P.o.B. at 11:30 AM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
That most recent episode really was one of the best ones they've done. Though I was really wishing Jessa's marriage would crash a little bit slower than that – very funny though.
I don't think it's the "best" – it's inconsistent and generally weaker when it tries to be more serious/ sympathetic and I'm very careful about not thinking about how the best episode of Girls is as good as the worst episode of Party Down because television is a vale of tears – but, I look forward to seeing new episodes of Girls more than any other premium cable show currently on TV, so there's that. Also Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is better than Girls even if he doesn't quite get the show.
posted by furiousthought at 11:32 AM on February 5, 2013
I don't think it's the "best" – it's inconsistent and generally weaker when it tries to be more serious/ sympathetic and I'm very careful about not thinking about how the best episode of Girls is as good as the worst episode of Party Down because television is a vale of tears – but, I look forward to seeing new episodes of Girls more than any other premium cable show currently on TV, so there's that. Also Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is better than Girls even if he doesn't quite get the show.
posted by furiousthought at 11:32 AM on February 5, 2013
> To those who think Girls is so great, why? What is the appeal?
I wouldn't describe it as "so great," but I watched the whole first season last week and was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I expected it to be the moving image version of a Times trend piece, but it steps over that pitfall by having sympathy for the characters as people rather than as the cultural stand-ins that I (and, apparently, everyone else) assumed they would be.
By sympathy I don't mean the show pats young white Brooklyn on the back and agrees that 20something life is so hard yet so glamorous and so exciting and so far from your parents. By sympathy I mean it watches the girls, nods, and says "yeah, you're fucking up and you're freaking out about it. I know. I know." But charitably. You don't necessarily like the characters, and you certainly don't want to be them, but they're allowed to be likable and dislikeable and often funny as their own characters dictate. I like that sort of thing.
And despite the Sex and the City comparisons, if there's one major difference between Girls and SatS it's that Girls has characters and SatS had Mary Sues.
I also think Mr. Abdul-Jabbar is right that the boys on Girls may actually be the better written than the girls.
posted by postcommunism at 11:36 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't describe it as "so great," but I watched the whole first season last week and was surprised how much I enjoyed it. I expected it to be the moving image version of a Times trend piece, but it steps over that pitfall by having sympathy for the characters as people rather than as the cultural stand-ins that I (and, apparently, everyone else) assumed they would be.
By sympathy I don't mean the show pats young white Brooklyn on the back and agrees that 20something life is so hard yet so glamorous and so exciting and so far from your parents. By sympathy I mean it watches the girls, nods, and says "yeah, you're fucking up and you're freaking out about it. I know. I know." But charitably. You don't necessarily like the characters, and you certainly don't want to be them, but they're allowed to be likable and dislikeable and often funny as their own characters dictate. I like that sort of thing.
And despite the Sex and the City comparisons, if there's one major difference between Girls and SatS it's that Girls has characters and SatS had Mary Sues.
I also think Mr. Abdul-Jabbar is right that the boys on Girls may actually be the better written than the girls.
posted by postcommunism at 11:36 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I graduated from an over-hyped, "high powered" college in 2009/2010. The girls on Girls are my roommates and me, just with better writers. The guys on Girls are the guys I lusted after from afar or had really failed sexual experiences with. The rolls in Lena Dunham's stomach match the rolls in my own. The awkward tiptoeing around being really privileged and yet functionally broke. I see a realistic, if funnier, wealthier, and slightly more awkward version of me and my friends in semi-popular culture. We're not all good people. We're not all pretty people. We can be fucking assholes and blind to our flaws and still worth interacting with and still do interesting things. And I really really like seeing it.
posted by ChuraChura at 11:38 AM on February 5, 2013 [18 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 11:38 AM on February 5, 2013 [18 favorites]
Furiousthought, you thought the marriage crumbling was funny? Wow, I didn't find it funny at all. Yeah, they were probably ill-suited and we didn't get much insight into what made them decide to get married, but I thought it was still heart-breaking.
Maybe it was intended to be funny, but I just found it so sad, in a way that I consider a credit to the writers.
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:40 AM on February 5, 2013
Maybe it was intended to be funny, but I just found it so sad, in a way that I consider a credit to the writers.
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:40 AM on February 5, 2013
I would rather see, I believe the words you like to use is, "something human".
I guess YMMV but I think Girls is one of the more human shows I've ever seen.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:42 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I guess YMMV but I think Girls is one of the more human shows I've ever seen.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:42 AM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
"Its hilarious" and "its the best" don't particularly answer the question. Care to elaborate as to how?
The thing that Girls does remarkably well is to allow its characters to simultaneously be lovable, interesting, and full of potential, without whitewashing their actions into "Every mistake we ever made was part of a learning experience, onward and upward!" or something similarly trite. Girls doesn't work for people who don't find its characters sympathetic, but I for one find it incredibly easy to love the central cast, girls and boys alike. The range of the characters is impressive – I find that oftentimes, it's much harder to write a set of characters who are all superficially the same (twentyish shallow New Yorkers) than it is to write a more diverse, "all-encompassing" cast, where you can pick some broad stereotype of each person and write every bit of drama about how they clash. (Community has, sadly, turned into this, which is a shame because in its first season it subverted character archetypes and not just genre.) Girls, meanwhile, has a cast of characters who are all trying too hard to be mature, but each of them approaches this in a different way.
For me, the character with the most interesting arc has been Marnie, who I strongly disliked in most of season one but has started to slowly grow into an interesting, complex character in her own right. The Marnie we see early on seems well-off and self-possessed to a fault – she's beautiful, works at an art gallery, and her biggest problem is Charlie, her clingy, loving boyfriend. In fact, what made me dislike her so much was her seeming inability to be honest with Charlie about her getting sick of him; Charlie was crushingly cloying, but I felt bad for the guy, and felt that she kind of treated him like dirt. But since their separation, it's become increasingly obvious that Marnie's life is kind of unraveling, and that because things seemed to click for her for so long, she is unique ill-equipped to handle a situation that, to any of the other girls, would probably seem completely ordinary. (Even Shoshanna, the most anxious and naive of the girls, is the one who helps Marnie find a new job.) She started out as an almost-aloof best friend to Hannah, and has become a sympathetic, sad person on a couple of levels at once. It's been very slow and very subtle and she's probably going to continue slowly unraveling for quite some time to come.
What I find especially charming about Girls is that each of its characters moves at a different rhythm. Shoshanna is hyperstrung yet very conservative and slow to experiment with change. Jessa is pretty much the opposite: she flings herself at potential disaster and makes things explode. To some of the other characters, this makes her exotic and experienced, and truly she's the kind of girl who almost seems like she's from another planet, yet the result is that she's nearly always in a miserable place. I mean, this show started out with her being pregnant and not wanting to be, and that's probably the closest to stable she's ever gotten. Hannah, the show's "main" character, exemplifies Girls in that she's always searching for new experiences, not even because she's dissatisfied with her life but because she wants to have things to write about, and unless she gets herself into heaps of trouble she'll never finish that collection of essays. Adam is arrogant to the point of sociopathy, and even his vulnerability is utterly self-centered; Charlie's clingy nervousness seems to hide some nasty, bottled-up anger that surfaces every now and then; Ray is a cynical jackass who's old enough to know that cynical jackassery isn't enough, yet who's still cynical enough that he somewhat regrets that. And every scene of the show involves these various speeds and moods and rhythms clashing with each other, and the result is usually either moving or hilarious, or often both at once.
All of these people want to be good people. They want life to make sense. They want to be experienced enough to understand how to behave, how to be happy, how to be content. But they're not adults – they're, well, girls – and they're living in a city that's in a current state of flux. Isn't that what "hipster" connotes? No tradition or custom, a constant pursuit of novelty that might be meaningful or life-changing, a search for something newer and better and more profound? Well, in that sense, Girls is a show about hipsters, but it is not itself a hipster show: rather than proudly boast about that kind of search, it highlights the hilarity and tragedy to be found within the search itself.
It is a show that captures youth, what it is to be young, better than almost any other show I've seen. There's a reason people compare it to Freaks & Geeks, and it's that F&G was one of the only other shows to get that being young is hilarious when you don't sugarcoat the idiocy of your characters – but it's also tragic, in its own little ways. Nobody young wants to be young. It's just a thing that kind of happens to them.
In part because it came out ten years later, when TV was more liberal and allowing, and in part because it deals with twentysomethings and not teens, Girls can get away with things Freaks & Geeks never could. If it's in any way the voice of its generation – my generation, that is – then it's because of how its characters try to reject stability, maturity, responsibility while still wanting the advantages of all these three things. They want the bohemian lifestyle without the bohemia. They want to reliable love, the consistent employment, the guarantee of a future, without entering into any of the bargains which they feel would make them less free. You could almost read it as a protest against the system – an argument against all the trade-offs and buy-ins you have to make to live a stable, sensible life that won't fall apart in the blink of an eye – except that, from the start, Girls has let its girls be hilarious and immature and often just wrong. That's not to say the shit they have to deal with isn't unpleasant, but certainly they're no better than the rest of it – they aren't ready to live with the consequences of their wish-they-were-noble choices.
It's a balancing act, a very tricky one to pull off, and clearly some people think Girls is either not funny or not heartfelt enough – but for those of us for whom it works, the show is fantastic (I like it even more than I like Louie, the other major critical darling). Like I said, it captures the tragedy and hilarity of youth – the tragedy being that these girls want something they're not ready for, and the hilarity being, well, the same. Because I'm a schmaltz, I love the heartfelt feels moments more than anything, but at the same time, the comedy is what keeps the show light and easily watchable even as it deals with dark and unpleasant things. Each makes the other better. And that, in conclusion, is why it's the best: Girls is a land of contrasts.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:46 AM on February 5, 2013 [41 favorites]
The thing that Girls does remarkably well is to allow its characters to simultaneously be lovable, interesting, and full of potential, without whitewashing their actions into "Every mistake we ever made was part of a learning experience, onward and upward!" or something similarly trite. Girls doesn't work for people who don't find its characters sympathetic, but I for one find it incredibly easy to love the central cast, girls and boys alike. The range of the characters is impressive – I find that oftentimes, it's much harder to write a set of characters who are all superficially the same (twentyish shallow New Yorkers) than it is to write a more diverse, "all-encompassing" cast, where you can pick some broad stereotype of each person and write every bit of drama about how they clash. (Community has, sadly, turned into this, which is a shame because in its first season it subverted character archetypes and not just genre.) Girls, meanwhile, has a cast of characters who are all trying too hard to be mature, but each of them approaches this in a different way.
For me, the character with the most interesting arc has been Marnie, who I strongly disliked in most of season one but has started to slowly grow into an interesting, complex character in her own right. The Marnie we see early on seems well-off and self-possessed to a fault – she's beautiful, works at an art gallery, and her biggest problem is Charlie, her clingy, loving boyfriend. In fact, what made me dislike her so much was her seeming inability to be honest with Charlie about her getting sick of him; Charlie was crushingly cloying, but I felt bad for the guy, and felt that she kind of treated him like dirt. But since their separation, it's become increasingly obvious that Marnie's life is kind of unraveling, and that because things seemed to click for her for so long, she is unique ill-equipped to handle a situation that, to any of the other girls, would probably seem completely ordinary. (Even Shoshanna, the most anxious and naive of the girls, is the one who helps Marnie find a new job.) She started out as an almost-aloof best friend to Hannah, and has become a sympathetic, sad person on a couple of levels at once. It's been very slow and very subtle and she's probably going to continue slowly unraveling for quite some time to come.
What I find especially charming about Girls is that each of its characters moves at a different rhythm. Shoshanna is hyperstrung yet very conservative and slow to experiment with change. Jessa is pretty much the opposite: she flings herself at potential disaster and makes things explode. To some of the other characters, this makes her exotic and experienced, and truly she's the kind of girl who almost seems like she's from another planet, yet the result is that she's nearly always in a miserable place. I mean, this show started out with her being pregnant and not wanting to be, and that's probably the closest to stable she's ever gotten. Hannah, the show's "main" character, exemplifies Girls in that she's always searching for new experiences, not even because she's dissatisfied with her life but because she wants to have things to write about, and unless she gets herself into heaps of trouble she'll never finish that collection of essays. Adam is arrogant to the point of sociopathy, and even his vulnerability is utterly self-centered; Charlie's clingy nervousness seems to hide some nasty, bottled-up anger that surfaces every now and then; Ray is a cynical jackass who's old enough to know that cynical jackassery isn't enough, yet who's still cynical enough that he somewhat regrets that. And every scene of the show involves these various speeds and moods and rhythms clashing with each other, and the result is usually either moving or hilarious, or often both at once.
All of these people want to be good people. They want life to make sense. They want to be experienced enough to understand how to behave, how to be happy, how to be content. But they're not adults – they're, well, girls – and they're living in a city that's in a current state of flux. Isn't that what "hipster" connotes? No tradition or custom, a constant pursuit of novelty that might be meaningful or life-changing, a search for something newer and better and more profound? Well, in that sense, Girls is a show about hipsters, but it is not itself a hipster show: rather than proudly boast about that kind of search, it highlights the hilarity and tragedy to be found within the search itself.
It is a show that captures youth, what it is to be young, better than almost any other show I've seen. There's a reason people compare it to Freaks & Geeks, and it's that F&G was one of the only other shows to get that being young is hilarious when you don't sugarcoat the idiocy of your characters – but it's also tragic, in its own little ways. Nobody young wants to be young. It's just a thing that kind of happens to them.
In part because it came out ten years later, when TV was more liberal and allowing, and in part because it deals with twentysomethings and not teens, Girls can get away with things Freaks & Geeks never could. If it's in any way the voice of its generation – my generation, that is – then it's because of how its characters try to reject stability, maturity, responsibility while still wanting the advantages of all these three things. They want the bohemian lifestyle without the bohemia. They want to reliable love, the consistent employment, the guarantee of a future, without entering into any of the bargains which they feel would make them less free. You could almost read it as a protest against the system – an argument against all the trade-offs and buy-ins you have to make to live a stable, sensible life that won't fall apart in the blink of an eye – except that, from the start, Girls has let its girls be hilarious and immature and often just wrong. That's not to say the shit they have to deal with isn't unpleasant, but certainly they're no better than the rest of it – they aren't ready to live with the consequences of their wish-they-were-noble choices.
It's a balancing act, a very tricky one to pull off, and clearly some people think Girls is either not funny or not heartfelt enough – but for those of us for whom it works, the show is fantastic (I like it even more than I like Louie, the other major critical darling). Like I said, it captures the tragedy and hilarity of youth – the tragedy being that these girls want something they're not ready for, and the hilarity being, well, the same. Because I'm a schmaltz, I love the heartfelt feels moments more than anything, but at the same time, the comedy is what keeps the show light and easily watchable even as it deals with dark and unpleasant things. Each makes the other better. And that, in conclusion, is why it's the best: Girls is a land of contrasts.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:46 AM on February 5, 2013 [41 favorites]
And you know, other people like different things than you like so maybe YOU CAN RELAX A LITTLE BIT AND NOT YELL AT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY LIKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOU DO!!! Thanks.
Look, you can like or dislike whatever you want, but if you say something as snarky as "why watch Girls when you could be watching Jersey Shore" don't feel sad because somebody responds by snarkily saying "I disagree with that logic." What, haters can snark but lovers gotta be sincere?
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:54 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Look, you can like or dislike whatever you want, but if you say something as snarky as "why watch Girls when you could be watching Jersey Shore" don't feel sad because somebody responds by snarkily saying "I disagree with that logic." What, haters can snark but lovers gotta be sincere?
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:54 AM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Man, Rory, you are just articulating everything better than I can today.
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:56 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 11:56 AM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
About Madamina's comment - I don't know, but I read that more as her frustration that Dunham isn't really treating those gorgeous designer clothes with the respect that they deserve? That to show how ironic and cool she is, Dunham might be deliberately not tailoring/accessorizing/straightening her shoulders or even just working it. I agree that bodysnarking is totally inappropriate, but am not sure that was the point being made.
Regardless of what Madamina intended by the comment, we don't know Lena Dunham's decision-making process, and why does this even matter? That is a great colour on her, she looks happy, and maybe she actually likes how she looks in it. Anne Hathaway was dressed just as simply at the same event, by the way, but nobody's going to say that she's under accessorizing or less put together because... she's thinner and can wear tighter clothing? Lena Dunham is young and new to this, why do we expect her to look perfect on the red carpet?
posted by peripathetic at 12:00 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Regardless of what Madamina intended by the comment, we don't know Lena Dunham's decision-making process, and why does this even matter? That is a great colour on her, she looks happy, and maybe she actually likes how she looks in it. Anne Hathaway was dressed just as simply at the same event, by the way, but nobody's going to say that she's under accessorizing or less put together because... she's thinner and can wear tighter clothing? Lena Dunham is young and new to this, why do we expect her to look perfect on the red carpet?
posted by peripathetic at 12:00 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's a really interesting review. I am envious now that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar can be so awesome at basketball AND at writing media criticism.
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:02 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by Sidhedevil at 12:02 PM on February 5, 2013
Oh FFS, I didn't say that, Rory. I watch the show, I am a fan. I don't think season 2 is living up to season 1. The characters are failing to grow, and they keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over. If I wanted that then I could go elsewhere. Is that clear? Or do you want to play out this game of me being the big meanie and you as the defender of all that is righteous and good?
posted by P.o.B. at 12:04 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by P.o.B. at 12:04 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Furiousthought, you thought the marriage crumbling was funny? Wow, I didn't find it funny at all.
In that almost every line that Chris O'Dowd said was obliviously hilarious, yeah absolutely. Of course it was shot through with heartbreak and discomfort, it's Girls.
posted by furiousthought at 12:06 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
In that almost every line that Chris O'Dowd said was obliviously hilarious, yeah absolutely. Of course it was shot through with heartbreak and discomfort, it's Girls.
posted by furiousthought at 12:06 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Or do you want to play out this game of me being the big meanie and you as the defender of all that is righteous and good?
You know we can all hear you, right?
posted by shakespeherian at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
You know we can all hear you, right?
posted by shakespeherian at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Let's all calm down and watch the "Dancing On My Own" scene from Girls because oh god it is awesome.
YES! It was at that exact point, at the end of three episodes in, that I personally realized that, heck, I was more immersed in Girls than any series since The Wire.
posted by Wordshore at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
YES! It was at that exact point, at the end of three episodes in, that I personally realized that, heck, I was more immersed in Girls than any series since The Wire.
posted by Wordshore at 12:12 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
A"bit of a hit"? It is doing not only well enough to merit another season and win many awards, the writer has now been commissioned to write another entirely new and different series in addition to Girls.
posted by Postroad at 12:15 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Postroad at 12:15 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
P.o.B.: I think your original comment was silly and unnecessarily snarky. I'm sorry that you're reading it as me saying there's no good reason to dislike Girls – I think it's an easy show not to like, and I also agree with you that a couple of episodes this season have been spotty in ways that no season one episode was. The cocaine/Booth Jonathan episode was just unpleasant for me.
(FWIW, the tone of my response to you was less that I wanted to yell at you and more that I thought my History Channel joke would be funnier with an over-empathetic build-up. I am still not very good at Internet Humor, forgive me.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:17 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
(FWIW, the tone of my response to you was less that I wanted to yell at you and more that I thought my History Channel joke would be funnier with an over-empathetic build-up. I am still not very good at Internet Humor, forgive me.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:17 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Gotta love MetaFilter... I called it a "bit of a hit" and got arguments in both directions about my wording....
"A"bit of a hit"? It is doing not only well enough to merit another season and win many awards, the writer has now been commissioned to write another entirely new and different series in addition to Girls."
"Girls gets a lot of buzz, but it's not exactly a hit."
I believe you two can discuss this between yourselves.
posted by HuronBob at 12:18 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
"A"bit of a hit"? It is doing not only well enough to merit another season and win many awards, the writer has now been commissioned to write another entirely new and different series in addition to Girls."
"Girls gets a lot of buzz, but it's not exactly a hit."
I believe you two can discuss this between yourselves.
posted by HuronBob at 12:18 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Oh! I have a question: does anybody who watches Modern Family think it's deserving of its Emmy sweeps year after year? I've avoided it because people I know always describe it as "worse than Community/Parks and Recreation/30 Rock/Girls/Louie/Archer/The Office" and never talk about it in a positive light, and because the one episode I've seen of it read as funny, but not especially interesting. Are there any ardent fans of the show here? Do any TV nerds think it's worth watching, not just for funny jokes or tight editing, but because there's something really unique or special going on there?
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:21 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:21 PM on February 5, 2013
I am still not very good at Internet Humor
Not as bad as I am at reading it.
(*°∀°)=♡
posted by P.o.B. at 12:23 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Not as bad as I am at reading it.
(*°∀°)=♡
posted by P.o.B. at 12:23 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Rory, I don't think it is ground-breaking by any stretch, but it's certainly enjoyable. If I were you I wouldn't displace any of the shows in that list, but it has its moments.
I think Ty Burrell is so funny on it, and Ed O'Neill is terrific. Mostly it's just a feel-good show the majority of the time.
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 12:26 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think Ty Burrell is so funny on it, and Ed O'Neill is terrific. Mostly it's just a feel-good show the majority of the time.
posted by staccato signals of constant information at 12:26 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not a TV geek, but I think Modern Family is excellent. Several of the characters remind me of real life Californians I know, and I consider it a comedy of awkwardness like Arrested Development or Curb Your Enthusiasm (both of which I love). Not as intense or edgy, but it has the advantage that the writers actually like their own characters.
As a dad to two teenage girls, I also really like that it connects across generations.
posted by msalt at 12:35 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a dad to two teenage girls, I also really like that it connects across generations.
posted by msalt at 12:35 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah – Modern Family is sort of a bridge show between Curb-Your-Enthusiasm-style awkward comedy and a more traditional sitcom, so, it isn't groundbreaking, just evolutionary. It's pretty good I think. Nobody who ever sweeps the Emmys year after year actually deserves it I don't think. Television vale of tears :(
posted by furiousthought at 12:39 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by furiousthought at 12:39 PM on February 5, 2013
Is every fan of this show either a Hollywood insider or on Metafilter, cause I know people all over the country and I have not seen one Girls fan in the wild, ever.
Huh. I can barely hang out with twenty-somethings in my city without someone eventually bringing up the show as a point of conversation.
posted by naju at 12:40 PM on February 5, 2013
Huh. I can barely hang out with twenty-somethings in my city without someone eventually bringing up the show as a point of conversation.
posted by naju at 12:40 PM on February 5, 2013
Girls is one of the tenderest, most sincere shows on the air.
This. It strives scrupulously for honesty. Not authenticity. Honesty. In this respect, it is strikingly "uncool".
posted by mr_roboto at 12:43 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
This. It strives scrupulously for honesty. Not authenticity. Honesty. In this respect, it is strikingly "uncool".
posted by mr_roboto at 12:43 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Two Broke Girls, Two and a Half Men, NCIS, Criminal Minds, Castle . . .
Terrible godawful show, an atrocity against mankind, eh generic military action show, never really watched but supposedly not that bad... hey, that's Captain Tightpants you're talking about there!
Modern Family is decent but honestly a bit trite and rote most of the time... I stopped watching after the first season.
Once again, I'm going to talk up my favorite underwatched sitcoms of the last few years: Cougar Town and Happy Endings! (I liked Don't Trust The B In Apartment 23 too, but alas too late on that one...)
(Also, that response post might just about equal fighting Bruce Lee on the coolness scale. Goddamn KAJ is a badass.)
posted by kmz at 12:47 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Terrible godawful show, an atrocity against mankind, eh generic military action show, never really watched but supposedly not that bad... hey, that's Captain Tightpants you're talking about there!
Modern Family is decent but honestly a bit trite and rote most of the time... I stopped watching after the first season.
Once again, I'm going to talk up my favorite underwatched sitcoms of the last few years: Cougar Town and Happy Endings! (I liked Don't Trust The B In Apartment 23 too, but alas too late on that one...)
(Also, that response post might just about equal fighting Bruce Lee on the coolness scale. Goddamn KAJ is a badass.)
posted by kmz at 12:47 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I believe you two can discuss this between yourselves.
I actually don't particularly care, I just thought the link I posted was interesting and somewhat relevant to the thread.
posted by asnider at 12:48 PM on February 5, 2013
I actually don't particularly care, I just thought the link I posted was interesting and somewhat relevant to the thread.
posted by asnider at 12:48 PM on February 5, 2013
I'm with bondcliff, I kind of hate everyone yet I pretty much really like the show anyway.
Lena Dunham may not be the best of the best, but because of the state of our pop culture she could pretty much just stand still under a spotlight and be making a statement that needs to be made right now. I'm glad she's doing what she's doing.
And I'm glad I'm not a twenty-something in today's times. I find the show incredibly awkward to watch but also funny. All those people will look back at themselves in this show, ten, fifteen years from now and laugh their asses off and cringe so hard. I just hope they find half the joy that I found re-watching My So-called Life and Freaks & Geeks.
Kareem rocks.
posted by amanda at 12:52 PM on February 5, 2013
Lena Dunham may not be the best of the best, but because of the state of our pop culture she could pretty much just stand still under a spotlight and be making a statement that needs to be made right now. I'm glad she's doing what she's doing.
And I'm glad I'm not a twenty-something in today's times. I find the show incredibly awkward to watch but also funny. All those people will look back at themselves in this show, ten, fifteen years from now and laugh their asses off and cringe so hard. I just hope they find half the joy that I found re-watching My So-called Life and Freaks & Geeks.
Kareem rocks.
posted by amanda at 12:52 PM on February 5, 2013
"worse than Community/Parks and Recreation/30 Rock/Girls/Louie/Archer/The Office"
Is anyone watching The Office for reasons outside of grim obligation at this point? Cuz that's all I've got.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:56 PM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Is anyone watching The Office for reasons outside of grim obligation at this point? Cuz that's all I've got.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:56 PM on February 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Don't be hatin' on Robert California.
posted by fleacircus at 1:01 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by fleacircus at 1:01 PM on February 5, 2013
Nope. Grim obligation is all there is, shakes. See also: How I Met Your Mother.
Side note 1: The obligation has basically been lifted for How I Met Your Mother at this point. Barring some ridiculous bending over backwards by the writers, you now, literally, know how Ted met "Your Mother." You don't know "who" she is, but you have seen the moment he laid eyes on her, and you know the circumstances under which they met. I really, really, wished I had the will power to stop watching after I saw this. That show has been a train wreck for at least the past two seasons.
Side note 2: Does anybody else call How I Met Your Mother "Metch?" If not, how do you refer to it in conversation? Him-yim?
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:15 PM on February 5, 2013
Side note 1: The obligation has basically been lifted for How I Met Your Mother at this point. Barring some ridiculous bending over backwards by the writers, you now, literally, know how Ted met "Your Mother." You don't know "who" she is, but you have seen the moment he laid eyes on her, and you know the circumstances under which they met. I really, really, wished I had the will power to stop watching after I saw this. That show has been a train wreck for at least the past two seasons.
Side note 2: Does anybody else call How I Met Your Mother "Metch?" If not, how do you refer to it in conversation? Him-yim?
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:15 PM on February 5, 2013
Him-yim.
And yeah, while I would argue it's not nearly as dire as The Office has gotten, it's definitely treading water a bit. (The latest ep was pretty fun though.)
I cannot even tell you how happy I was when I heard that the 9th season was definitely the final one.
posted by kmz at 1:24 PM on February 5, 2013
And yeah, while I would argue it's not nearly as dire as The Office has gotten, it's definitely treading water a bit. (The latest ep was pretty fun though.)
I cannot even tell you how happy I was when I heard that the 9th season was definitely the final one.
posted by kmz at 1:24 PM on February 5, 2013
Modern Family is horrible Rory. Ignore it. As for my thoughts about the latest series of the Office, click here (if you dare.)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:55 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:55 PM on February 5, 2013
ie I love this latest season of the office so much. It's a great show, building to a classy completion.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:59 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:59 PM on February 5, 2013
Yeah – Modern Family is sort of a bridge show between Curb-Your-Enthusiasm-style awkward comedy and a more traditional sitcom, so, it isn't groundbreaking, just evolutionary.
I'm not sure it's even evolutionary, but it seems to consolidate a lot of the gains made by really cutting edge shows, and reset them as state of the art for the biggest possible audience -- all while (along with Glee) going a huge way toward normalizing gayness in modern American life.
Compared to other top-rated shows, I'd call it less edgy than Seinfeld (but emotionally healthier, and with better characters), and much better than Friends, The Cosby Show, Cheers, etc. The best top rated show ever, of course, was MASH -- warm, funny, irreverent, technically innovative AND political.
posted by msalt at 2:00 PM on February 5, 2013
I'm not sure it's even evolutionary, but it seems to consolidate a lot of the gains made by really cutting edge shows, and reset them as state of the art for the biggest possible audience -- all while (along with Glee) going a huge way toward normalizing gayness in modern American life.
Compared to other top-rated shows, I'd call it less edgy than Seinfeld (but emotionally healthier, and with better characters), and much better than Friends, The Cosby Show, Cheers, etc. The best top rated show ever, of course, was MASH -- warm, funny, irreverent, technically innovative AND political.
posted by msalt at 2:00 PM on February 5, 2013
I like how that review of the final ep of 30 Rock is a metaphor for your feelings about the latest season of the office, Potomac Avenue, you rockstar ninja godling!
posted by Mister_A at 2:04 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Mister_A at 2:04 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Season 1 eventually charmed me and won me over but man has season 2 felt stale. The coke episode was a real low point for me. Watching it just felt icky and gross and I found little humor in it and Booth Jonathan continues to be creepy and super not funny. The art jokes were stale and blah and so were the sex jokes and I dunno, man, it just didn't feel charming at all and the show is best when it's at least a little charming.
Haven't watched Sunday's episode yet, though. Maybe I'll feel differently. I dunno. But the coke episode just made me want to shower lots, and not in a "this is so brilliantly uncomfortable!" kind of way.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:20 PM on February 5, 2013
Haven't watched Sunday's episode yet, though. Maybe I'll feel differently. I dunno. But the coke episode just made me want to shower lots, and not in a "this is so brilliantly uncomfortable!" kind of way.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:20 PM on February 5, 2013
:Like a crappier version of sex in the city without 30 year olds and money.
My guess is you have not watched much SATC (unfortunately I have). A crappier version is not possible.
Girls gets a lot of buzz, but it's not exactly a hit.
I notice the word "torrent" conspicuously absent from that article. ;) They do measure that shit, right? (It looks like most HBO shows get as many torrent viewers as subscriber viewers)
(I didn't even realize Season 2 had started ... time to catch up.)
Is anyone watching The Office for reasons outside of grim obligation at this point? Cuz that's all I've got.
I wasn't a big fan of the latest twist (with the documentarian), but I still enjoy it. If I didn't, I would have stopped watching it (see: Dexter, Lost, Homeland, Modern Family). I got turned off 30 Rock sometime in seasons 4-6, but then they turned it around for me with the last 2 seasons.
Modern Family has a tremendously talented cast, but the writers have let them down for a while. I suppose that's the nature of top-rated TV shows--focus on the LCD. My final straw was the total waste of David Cross. Did his character ever say 1 funny thing? He's a funny guy!
posted by mrgrimm at 2:27 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
My guess is you have not watched much SATC (unfortunately I have). A crappier version is not possible.
Girls gets a lot of buzz, but it's not exactly a hit.
I notice the word "torrent" conspicuously absent from that article. ;) They do measure that shit, right? (It looks like most HBO shows get as many torrent viewers as subscriber viewers)
(I didn't even realize Season 2 had started ... time to catch up.)
Is anyone watching The Office for reasons outside of grim obligation at this point? Cuz that's all I've got.
I wasn't a big fan of the latest twist (with the documentarian), but I still enjoy it. If I didn't, I would have stopped watching it (see: Dexter, Lost, Homeland, Modern Family). I got turned off 30 Rock sometime in seasons 4-6, but then they turned it around for me with the last 2 seasons.
Modern Family has a tremendously talented cast, but the writers have let them down for a while. I suppose that's the nature of top-rated TV shows--focus on the LCD. My final straw was the total waste of David Cross. Did his character ever say 1 funny thing? He's a funny guy!
posted by mrgrimm at 2:27 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
PhoB: I think you'll be pleasantly taken away by this last episode. I've been feeling the same way you have and the coke episode was just horribly blechy – Booth Jonathan especially, but even the coke scenes didn't feel properly Girls-y – but everything came together beautifully in this one, and in a somewhat unexpected fashion. Hopefully they keep up the groove.
Poto: That was a wonderfully fun post. I heard about The Office's new boom mic guy thing, but fear I probably can't understand what's going on nowadays as I stopped watching in season 4.
posted by Rory Marinich at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2013
Poto: That was a wonderfully fun post. I heard about The Office's new boom mic guy thing, but fear I probably can't understand what's going on nowadays as I stopped watching in season 4.
posted by Rory Marinich at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2013
I made that comment because Lena Dunham and her "realistic" body ("so lifelike!") have the opportunity to wear whatever the hell they want, and in fact make a statement by doing so. Or NOT make a statement, and go the Tina Fey route of classy yet simple. Yeah, women pretty much can't win unless they pull out all the stops, but the grand majority manage to look reasonable.
Right now, Lena Dunham has the ability to summon pretty much anyone she wants to pull out those stops.
But it makes me grumpy that she's wearing clothes in this passive aggressive way that shows very little respect for the people who created them. The whole point of publicizing what designer made your outfit is to make that designer look good. If you look like shit, you're disrespecting the designer, the people who actually sewed and appliqued and whatevered the dress, AND the event. AND your handlers, who now have a harder time finding things for you to wear for more events.
That thing she wore to the Golden Globes made me wince. I don't care about the style of the dress itself, but she couldn't walk in her heels and the dress looked like it was about to fall off in a bad way. That is pretty much my definition of Not Fun.
I wear jeans and a plain t-shirt to work every day. I am chronically underdressed. But if I go to an Event, I make damn sure that I put an entire outfit together. It is true that people often do not recognize me when I do so. NEVERTHELESS.
So "oooh, she doesn't care; she's so edgy." No, she's not edgy. If she were edgy, she would show up in a) something Tilda Swinton-esque, b) a meat dress, c) a schmatte from ModCloth that she wore to her cousin's bar mitzvah. And if she truly didn't care, she'd find something comfy and wear it to every event.
Instead, she's occupying some netherworld where it's cool to show how little you care about something that costs more than many Americans will ever spend on a car. Except you DO care, just enough to thumb your nose.
I can't help but think that one of the reasons I find it hard to watch Girls is because I know way too many people like the characters. A woman I know socially, whose family is VERY wealthy, is covered with tattoos and wears aggressively ugly plastic glasses. "Good on you!" I think. "You show those fancy people! You subvert that patriarchal obsession with presentation!"
But if her ability to get a job and support herself depended upon fitting into even a semi-professional ideal? You can bet she'd be wearing something mousy from LensCrafters. And when she complains about not having a ton of money and then drives off in her nearly new German car to plan her Palm Beach wedding, she doesn't seem to notice this dissonance.
It just chafes, you know?
GODDAMMIT I KNOW IT'S JUST A DRESS AND I AM NOT JEALOUS OKAY
posted by Madamina at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Right now, Lena Dunham has the ability to summon pretty much anyone she wants to pull out those stops.
But it makes me grumpy that she's wearing clothes in this passive aggressive way that shows very little respect for the people who created them. The whole point of publicizing what designer made your outfit is to make that designer look good. If you look like shit, you're disrespecting the designer, the people who actually sewed and appliqued and whatevered the dress, AND the event. AND your handlers, who now have a harder time finding things for you to wear for more events.
That thing she wore to the Golden Globes made me wince. I don't care about the style of the dress itself, but she couldn't walk in her heels and the dress looked like it was about to fall off in a bad way. That is pretty much my definition of Not Fun.
I wear jeans and a plain t-shirt to work every day. I am chronically underdressed. But if I go to an Event, I make damn sure that I put an entire outfit together. It is true that people often do not recognize me when I do so. NEVERTHELESS.
So "oooh, she doesn't care; she's so edgy." No, she's not edgy. If she were edgy, she would show up in a) something Tilda Swinton-esque, b) a meat dress, c) a schmatte from ModCloth that she wore to her cousin's bar mitzvah. And if she truly didn't care, she'd find something comfy and wear it to every event.
Instead, she's occupying some netherworld where it's cool to show how little you care about something that costs more than many Americans will ever spend on a car. Except you DO care, just enough to thumb your nose.
I can't help but think that one of the reasons I find it hard to watch Girls is because I know way too many people like the characters. A woman I know socially, whose family is VERY wealthy, is covered with tattoos and wears aggressively ugly plastic glasses. "Good on you!" I think. "You show those fancy people! You subvert that patriarchal obsession with presentation!"
But if her ability to get a job and support herself depended upon fitting into even a semi-professional ideal? You can bet she'd be wearing something mousy from LensCrafters. And when she complains about not having a ton of money and then drives off in her nearly new German car to plan her Palm Beach wedding, she doesn't seem to notice this dissonance.
It just chafes, you know?
GODDAMMIT I KNOW IT'S JUST A DRESS AND I AM NOT JEALOUS OKAY
posted by Madamina at 2:28 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Kenneth stopped being funny sometime in 2009.
What!? I agree it's a limited character but he and Tracy generally get the funniest jokes.
(Bonus: Kenneth's TV No-No Words - check the bottom)
it makes me grumpy that she's wearing clothes in this passive aggressive way that shows very little respect for the people who created them.
This is an odd statement: How can you discern her motives from still photos of a few instants? I think she looks fine.
Instead, she's occupying some netherworld where it's cool to show how little you care about something that costs more than many Americans will ever spend on a car. Except you DO care, just enough to thumb your nose.
I think you are projecting a bit, but IANAE on Lena Dunham.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:37 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
What!? I agree it's a limited character but he and Tracy generally get the funniest jokes.
It's like when a pig says to you, "If I can communicate with you telepathically, does it mean I have a soul?" and I'm like, "No! Off to the slaughter chute!"Also, Kenneth is IMMORTAL.
(Bonus: Kenneth's TV No-No Words - check the bottom)
it makes me grumpy that she's wearing clothes in this passive aggressive way that shows very little respect for the people who created them.
This is an odd statement: How can you discern her motives from still photos of a few instants? I think she looks fine.
Instead, she's occupying some netherworld where it's cool to show how little you care about something that costs more than many Americans will ever spend on a car. Except you DO care, just enough to thumb your nose.
I think you are projecting a bit, but IANAE on Lena Dunham.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:37 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
They've referred to the documentary crew tons of times on The Office already-- Michael Scott asking what they're going to do with all the footage, characters removing their lav mics or trying to hide their activities from the cameras, etc.
Generally now whenever the reference the crew it makes me cringe because they've drifted away from documentary style quite a bit and for this show to be a real documentary they'd need about 3 cameras on each character at all times, including multiple impossible setups in each person's car (even if a moment ago we saw the car from outside and there was no crew anywhere near it).
posted by shakespeherian at 2:41 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Generally now whenever the reference the crew it makes me cringe because they've drifted away from documentary style quite a bit and for this show to be a real documentary they'd need about 3 cameras on each character at all times, including multiple impossible setups in each person's car (even if a moment ago we saw the car from outside and there was no crew anywhere near it).
posted by shakespeherian at 2:41 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Compared to other top-rated shows, I'd call it less edgy than Seinfeld (but emotionally healthier, and with better characters), and much better than Friends, The Cosby Show, Cheers, etc.
Cheers?! C'mon, Cheers? There ain't no show that good anymore. That show is basically like treasure.
Woody is so good. He is so funny.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:15 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Cheers?! C'mon, Cheers? There ain't no show that good anymore. That show is basically like treasure.
Woody is so good. He is so funny.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:15 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
My main fear for Girls at this point is that Hannah's character will end up like Nancy in Weeds, never able to let a character development stick because it would ruin the premise of the show.
And could we please expend more energy criticizing women for their clothe... No, wait, I don't even have the wherewithal to say that sarcastically.
Speaking as someone with a lot of white, female, urban, middle-class 20-something friends, Girls hits home for that demographic. In fact, I think it precipitated some soul-searching conversations between me and my now ex-girlfriend. (Why oh why couldn't she have liked Community?!?)
posted by Skwirl at 3:19 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
And could we please expend more energy criticizing women for their clothe... No, wait, I don't even have the wherewithal to say that sarcastically.
Speaking as someone with a lot of white, female, urban, middle-class 20-something friends, Girls hits home for that demographic. In fact, I think it precipitated some soul-searching conversations between me and my now ex-girlfriend. (Why oh why couldn't she have liked Community?!?)
posted by Skwirl at 3:19 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
They've referred to the documentary crew tons of times on The Office already-- Michael Scott asking what they're going to do with all the footage, characters removing their lav mics or trying to hide their activities from the cameras, etc.
Yes, but always in the abstract (which works with your second point - no documentary crew could get all those shots).
Adding "Brian" to the mix is a huge misstep, imo. Now the documentary crew becomes "real" and it just makes no sense. Who would shoot a documentary at a paper office every day for 9 years? Who is funding this multimillion dollar venture? Better to leave it as an in-joke (see: Kenneth's immortality).
Also, just b/c it's the last season, we don't need a marriage crisis between Pam and Jim. Who really cares? The (failing) start-up angle is a better one, and provides a better ending. I still think that Jim ends up as regional manager of DM.
Cheers?! C'mon, Cheers? There ain't no show that good anymore. That show is basically like treasure.
Cheers gets a bad rap from some, but it really is one of the top sitcoms ever. My personal preference puts Seinfeld as the "best top-rated sitcom ever," then "All in the Family," then "Cheers," then M*A*S*H*. (I never really liked MASH that much, just b/c the movie is AWESOME and the TV show is much different, but I can appreciate the quality.)
posted by mrgrimm at 3:27 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, but always in the abstract (which works with your second point - no documentary crew could get all those shots).
Adding "Brian" to the mix is a huge misstep, imo. Now the documentary crew becomes "real" and it just makes no sense. Who would shoot a documentary at a paper office every day for 9 years? Who is funding this multimillion dollar venture? Better to leave it as an in-joke (see: Kenneth's immortality).
Also, just b/c it's the last season, we don't need a marriage crisis between Pam and Jim. Who really cares? The (failing) start-up angle is a better one, and provides a better ending. I still think that Jim ends up as regional manager of DM.
Cheers?! C'mon, Cheers? There ain't no show that good anymore. That show is basically like treasure.
Cheers gets a bad rap from some, but it really is one of the top sitcoms ever. My personal preference puts Seinfeld as the "best top-rated sitcom ever," then "All in the Family," then "Cheers," then M*A*S*H*. (I never really liked MASH that much, just b/c the movie is AWESOME and the TV show is much different, but I can appreciate the quality.)
posted by mrgrimm at 3:27 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh hey, is this another referendum on Girls thread?
I don't like it much. Rory Marinich says above that "[i]t is a show that captures youth" which is probably exactly why I don't like it. As a woman who is in the final years of anything that could reasonably be called "youth", a pox on the young! I am so over young people, y'all. I'd like to see a realistic show about women in their 50s trying to figure out what it all means. Even better, women in their 50s who aren't rich and live in New York City.
That being said, people get really cray-cray about Lena Dunham because she is a woman and has very little vanity and writes with a strong female voice, so while I'm not a fan of Girls Dunham is okay by me.
I'm also pro-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, although I was raised as a Celtics fan in the 80s so don't tell my Dad I said that.
posted by jess at 3:44 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't like it much. Rory Marinich says above that "[i]t is a show that captures youth" which is probably exactly why I don't like it. As a woman who is in the final years of anything that could reasonably be called "youth", a pox on the young! I am so over young people, y'all. I'd like to see a realistic show about women in their 50s trying to figure out what it all means. Even better, women in their 50s who aren't rich and live in New York City.
That being said, people get really cray-cray about Lena Dunham because she is a woman and has very little vanity and writes with a strong female voice, so while I'm not a fan of Girls Dunham is okay by me.
I'm also pro-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, although I was raised as a Celtics fan in the 80s so don't tell my Dad I said that.
posted by jess at 3:44 PM on February 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I loved Wonderfalls, and Dead Like Me, and Pushing Daisies. Dude got all his awesome shows cancelled. I guess it's a good thing anyway, i wish they'd do more miniseries instead of getting shows that are cancelled before their time or they go on until they're shit enough that people stop watching.
As for Girls, meh. Cool review, though.
posted by palbo at 4:10 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
As for Girls, meh. Cool review, though.
posted by palbo at 4:10 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'd like to see a realistic show about women in their 50s trying to figure out what it all means. Even better, women in their 50s who aren't rich and live in New York City.
A fucking men.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:12 PM on February 5, 2013
A fucking men.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:12 PM on February 5, 2013
Adding "Brian" to the mix is a huge misstep, imo. Now the documentary crew becomes "real" and it just makes no sense. Who would shoot a documentary at a paper office every day for 9 years? Who is funding this multimillion dollar venture?
Totally disagree only because it is the last season. Also who knows what the answers to those questions are? Maybe they'll address them, maybe they won't, but they have a chance to make an amazing point about so many things by bringing one of the Observers into the mix--as a stand-in for us the audience? or for a creator? I don't know-- especially as a romantic interest. It just opens up this whole new wonderful world where the end of the show could be about the show itself, about our experience of the show, about fandom, and reality and documentary and comedy. The British Office changed the language of television so profoundly and forever that we're still not even part-way through exploring this new grammar of docu-comedy, but it never broke the 4th wall this hard. No idea how you couldn't be excited by that, if you like(d) the US Office at all.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:33 PM on February 5, 2013
Totally disagree only because it is the last season. Also who knows what the answers to those questions are? Maybe they'll address them, maybe they won't, but they have a chance to make an amazing point about so many things by bringing one of the Observers into the mix--as a stand-in for us the audience? or for a creator? I don't know-- especially as a romantic interest. It just opens up this whole new wonderful world where the end of the show could be about the show itself, about our experience of the show, about fandom, and reality and documentary and comedy. The British Office changed the language of television so profoundly and forever that we're still not even part-way through exploring this new grammar of docu-comedy, but it never broke the 4th wall this hard. No idea how you couldn't be excited by that, if you like(d) the US Office at all.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:33 PM on February 5, 2013
if you ignore the fact that a large percent of the viewers of "Girls" are older men
...or pirates. A lot has been made in the media here that most of the people in the demographic it shows can't afford Sky Atlantic, and it seems common consensus that those who have seen it have done so via illegal means as it only arrived on DVD a couple of weeks ago.
Same with a lot of US sitcoms - there's a 'what are you watching' feature in our local commuter paper where a TV presenter will say 'I'm not sure what channel It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is on here to be honest...' No, because it isn't on any, or on DVD here past season 1, so someone's doing some naughty downloading or has a proxy VPN. (See also: Parks and Recreation, later seasons of Mad Men, 30 Rock after Channel 5 stopped showing it, Community...but not Louie as it appears we now have this on pay-cable now.)
posted by mippy at 4:39 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
...or pirates. A lot has been made in the media here that most of the people in the demographic it shows can't afford Sky Atlantic, and it seems common consensus that those who have seen it have done so via illegal means as it only arrived on DVD a couple of weeks ago.
Same with a lot of US sitcoms - there's a 'what are you watching' feature in our local commuter paper where a TV presenter will say 'I'm not sure what channel It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia is on here to be honest...' No, because it isn't on any, or on DVD here past season 1, so someone's doing some naughty downloading or has a proxy VPN. (See also: Parks and Recreation, later seasons of Mad Men, 30 Rock after Channel 5 stopped showing it, Community...but not Louie as it appears we now have this on pay-cable now.)
posted by mippy at 4:39 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Don't be mocking no Cheers. I bought MrMippy the box set for Christmas as soon as it came out in the autumn, and we spent Christmas afternoon snuggled on the sofa watching season 1. It holds up astonishingly well.
Seinfeld wasn't widely broadcast when it was contemporary - usually around 11pm on BBC2, when I was listening to John Peel on the radio - I tried to get into it a while ago and something about it seemed a bit dated. Maybe the irritating music? Or maybe I made the mistake of starting with season 1 - I've definitely enjoyed later episodes when I've caught them on cable at my mum's.
posted by mippy at 4:48 PM on February 5, 2013
Seinfeld wasn't widely broadcast when it was contemporary - usually around 11pm on BBC2, when I was listening to John Peel on the radio - I tried to get into it a while ago and something about it seemed a bit dated. Maybe the irritating music? Or maybe I made the mistake of starting with season 1 - I've definitely enjoyed later episodes when I've caught them on cable at my mum's.
posted by mippy at 4:48 PM on February 5, 2013
But it makes me grumpy that she's wearing clothes in this passive aggressive way that shows very little respect for the people who created them.
Yeah, clothes deserve more respect than the women wearing them. Got it.
posted by crossoverman at 5:46 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah, clothes deserve more respect than the women wearing them. Got it.
posted by crossoverman at 5:46 PM on February 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
I like Girls. I like and am a bit repulsed by Lena blah blah privilege, but privileged hipsters can make stuff too, from time to time.
posted by mooza at 6:35 PM on February 5, 2013
posted by mooza at 6:35 PM on February 5, 2013
I just want to tell you good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by gompa at 6:36 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by gompa at 6:36 PM on February 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
PhoBWanKenobi: "Booth Jonathan continues to be creepy and super not funny."
Booth Jonathan haters of MeFi, imma let you finish, but I believe we can all agree that Booth Jonathan is vile. That is the point of Booth Jonathan. By staring into the abyss of creeper that is Booth Jonathan, we rob the Booth Jonathan of its power.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:10 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Booth Jonathan haters of MeFi, imma let you finish, but I believe we can all agree that Booth Jonathan is vile. That is the point of Booth Jonathan. By staring into the abyss of creeper that is Booth Jonathan, we rob the Booth Jonathan of its power.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:10 PM on February 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I think other people have done a good job at explaining the appeal of Girls, but just to piggyback on this point:
"I will say that one thing I really like about Lena Dunham, and something that makes the show quite relatable, is that her character doesn't conform to society's standards of beauty or stylishness and she doesn't seem to give a shit at all."
The other night my husband and I were watching and there was a scene where Jessa was indoors and then the next scene she is outdoors and my husband says, "Wow, she does not look very good. Why is she so pale all of a sudden. Oh... is it because she's outside now and she they didn't put a lot of makeup on her and that's just what people look like when they go outside?"
So it's not just Lena Dunham's character. I read somewhere that for wardrobe they fit them with things like Spanx on, but then when they film they don't wear them so their clothes are always just a little bit ill fitting. Really true to life and I love that detail.
posted by like_neon at 5:51 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
"I will say that one thing I really like about Lena Dunham, and something that makes the show quite relatable, is that her character doesn't conform to society's standards of beauty or stylishness and she doesn't seem to give a shit at all."
The other night my husband and I were watching and there was a scene where Jessa was indoors and then the next scene she is outdoors and my husband says, "Wow, she does not look very good. Why is she so pale all of a sudden. Oh... is it because she's outside now and she they didn't put a lot of makeup on her and that's just what people look like when they go outside?"
So it's not just Lena Dunham's character. I read somewhere that for wardrobe they fit them with things like Spanx on, but then when they film they don't wear them so their clothes are always just a little bit ill fitting. Really true to life and I love that detail.
posted by like_neon at 5:51 AM on February 6, 2013 [7 favorites]
"I will say that one thing I really like about Lena Dunham, and something that makes the show quite relatable, is that her character doesn't conform to society's standards of beauty or stylishness and she doesn't seem to give a shit at all."
That's a big part of it for me too. How many bodies like Lena's have you seen naked on TV? And it's presented as normal? I think none.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:37 AM on February 6, 2013
That's a big part of it for me too. How many bodies like Lena's have you seen naked on TV? And it's presented as normal? I think none.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:37 AM on February 6, 2013
I loved Wonderfalls, and Dead Like Me, and Pushing Daisies.
I loved all of them. They went away, quickly. I like Girls, too, so don't worry, haters, it won't last.
Seriously, if I truly like a show? It is doomed.
That's a big part of it for me too. How many bodies like Lena's have you seen naked on TV? And it's presented as normal? I think none.
Exactly. And, she has a completely normal body. People are so used to the few thin perfect body types on TV that when even just an average body appears they panic.
It is sad and I sure hope Lena is tougher than she seems to be, as it has to be a lot to deal with.
posted by SuzySmith at 12:48 PM on February 6, 2013 [2 favorites]
Don't tell Lena Dunham she's the "voice of her generation."Lena Dunham And Her Mother Address "Girls" Criticism (BuzzFeed)
The Girls creator and star says that line, from the pilot episode of her hit HBO show, follows her around wherever she goes.
"I don't think I ever imagined that it would haunt me the way it is," said Dunham Wednesday at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston, where she appeared at a discussion with her mother, artist Laurie Simmons. "The character was on opium! I think the 'voice of a generation' concept was lost with beatnik literature. Because of globalization and increasing populations, my generation kind of consists of so many different voices that need so many different kinds of attention. But if my writing can show what it's like to be young, I'm happy."
posted by mrgrimm at 9:59 AM on February 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
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posted by Mister_A at 10:04 AM on February 5, 2013