November 19, 2001

4:18 PM

Colin Powell has a vision:"We have a vision of a region where Israelis and Arabs can live together in peace, security and dignity. We have a vision of a region where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side within secure and recognized borders. We have a vision of a region where all people have jobs that let them put bread on their tables, provide a roof over their heads and offer a decent education to their children. We have a vision of a region where all people worship God in a spirit of tolerance and understanding. And we have a vision of a region where respect for the sanctity of the individual, the rule of law and the politics of participation grow stronger day by day."
posted by kliuless (30 comments total)

It's that Vision thing again. Wonder where he got that from?
posted by Postroad at 4:26 PM on November 19, 2001

Take one "I have a dream". Dilute, dilute, dilute...
posted by holgate at 4:33 PM on November 19, 2001

Another leader with vision: Jordan's king seeks guarantees for Israel.
King Abdullah II of Jordan has embarked on a bold but secretive peace-building campaign aimed at eliciting public guarantees from all Arab states that Israel will be accepted as a state and "integrated" into the region.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:35 PM on November 19, 2001

Most of Powell's vision doesn't even describe the current social situation in the U.S.--exactly how does he expect to apply this vision to a war-torn, unstable region?

More chilling:
"History, fate and success have combined to compel American leadership in the Middle East and around the globe. ... We welcome the opportunity to use our power and influence to make the world a better place for all of God's children."

I am not exactly sure why, but that statement bothers me.
posted by xyzzy at 4:38 PM on November 19, 2001

It is nice to see someone taking a long term view. Right now I am getting the impression that the Bush administration is happy to institute chaos in Afghanistan as a warning to other arab nations. Considering the northern alliance themselves don't appear to want any foreign interferance and don't seem the least pro-western, I am fearful that the situation will not improve.

I like powell. He is about the only guy in the Bush white house I have much respect for.
posted by phatboy at 4:45 PM on November 19, 2001

I am not exactly sure why, but that statement bothers me.

Because you can't deal with the fact that the society which, by its superior principles, evolved to be most powerful, deserves to be most powerful.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:44 PM on November 19, 2001

Because you can't deal with the fact that the society which, by its superior principles, evolved to be most powerful, deserves to be most powerful.

Is that self-righteousness I'm smelling?
posted by solistrato at 7:06 PM on November 19, 2001

just us christians helping out our fellow jews and muslims.

where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. [Prov 29:18]
posted by kliuless at 7:06 PM on November 19, 2001

Because you can't deal with the fact that the society which, by its superior principles, evolved to be most powerful, deserves to be most powerful.


Wow. Taking evolutionary theory, which has been misapplied to produce social darwism, and then extending that error to apply it to nations.

You would have been better off just saying "USA kicks ass so shuddup!"
posted by srboisvert at 7:14 PM on November 19, 2001

"USA kicks ass so shuddup!"

Except that USA doesn't kick ass. USA is extraordinarily reserved and modest. But, I suppose some people view Disney and McDonalds (both of which I hate) as as evil as Communism and the Crusades.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:18 PM on November 19, 2001

Evolutionary theory

Absolutely. What else can you think? Roll of dice?
posted by ParisParamus at 7:21 PM on November 19, 2001

quantum theory perhaps?
posted by kliuless at 7:31 PM on November 19, 2001

A little light reading for political darwinists.
posted by holgate at 8:18 PM on November 19, 2001

USA is extraordinarily reserved and modest

HA!!

The USA is like the rap-star of the world.
posted by delmoi at 8:36 PM on November 19, 2001

Paris seems particularly inflammatory this evening. I'll stay on topic, though.

While it is encouraging to hear a high-level American official say things like "Israeli occupation" and "Palestinian state," if the US is truly serious, it will put pressure on Israel to actually implement the policies the US is advocating, namely, dismantling the settlements and ending the occupation. Otherwise, it's idle talk, and Sharon will see no reason not to continue the current state of affairs.
posted by mapalm at 8:40 PM on November 19, 2001

USA is extraordinarily reserved and modest
By all objective and historic standards, the USA is no rap-star.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:41 PM on November 19, 2001

Removing the occupation is the best thing that could happen to Israel. It is ridiculous that the most dangerous place in the world to be a Jew is in the homeland of the Jews. Withdrawing from all the land occupied in the 1967 war and helping to establish a democratic, secular Palestinian state, along with a free trade zone with Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon will make Israel prosperous, secure, and thriving. It is a shame (but understandable) that many Israelis give into the racism and fear that keeps the religious (and secular) right in power. To stay in power they must keep the situation inflamed and the Palestinians enraged, thus denying their people the safe homeland they deserve.
posted by chaz at 10:21 PM on November 19, 2001

..."We have a vision of a Starbucks on every street in Kabul, of a massive oil pipeline running from the Caspian through Afghanistan into the waiting gas tanks of American drivers..."
posted by skylar at 12:21 AM on November 20, 2001

maybe the speech was inspired by the roman empire; america is fighting for pax americana. added is some types of native american flavor, our leaders are our shamans, hence the visions; like the pontifex maximus in rome.
posted by elle at 1:41 AM on November 20, 2001

I like humorous threads like this one.
posted by mmarcos at 4:47 AM on November 20, 2001

It is ridiculous that the most dangerous place in the world to be a Jew is in the homeland of the Jews.

This is CNN bs distorted reality. Most of Israel is not that dangerous. In any case, Powell's speech is no more important that Secretary Rice's statements regarding the PA's coddling of Hamas, et al. I think the speech is just laying the groundwork for the post-Afghaistan phase of our military action, which may include Lebanon and Syria.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:00 AM on November 20, 2001

I think the speech is just laying the groundwork for the post-Afghaistan phase of our military action, which may include Lebanon and Syria.

In your Arab-hating dreams.
posted by holgate at 6:52 AM on November 20, 2001

Paris, most of Israel may not be that dangerous, but is there another place where 100+ Jews have died this year?
posted by cell divide at 8:36 AM on November 20, 2001

er... should have been died violently.
posted by cell divide at 9:01 AM on November 20, 2001

I'm sure you can think of one cell divide
posted by euphorb at 11:57 AM on November 20, 2001

The British pronunciation of Colin Powell makes him sound like an estate agent or a bank manager....
posted by feelinglistless at 2:44 PM on November 20, 2001

Cell: The World Trade Center?
posted by ParisParamus at 2:53 PM on November 20, 2001

Paris: fair enough. Let's hope that was a one-time thing though, whereas the situation in Israel/Palestine is an ongoing source of death.
posted by cell divide at 3:07 PM on November 20, 2001

Cell: I would be the last one to argue Israel doesn't have problems. My original comment was more an echoing of the impressions of a friend who just returned to Jerusalem and was surprised at home peaceful and calm it was (contrary to the CNN depiction). I guess that cuts both ways. On the other hand, she had a machine gun "chaperone" in her bus.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:18 PM on November 20, 2001

that word has to be spelled wrong...
posted by ParisParamus at 3:18 PM on November 20, 2001