Dear Women of Princeton
March 29, 2013 8:53 AM Subscribe
Dear Women of Princeton For most of you, the cornerstone of your future and happiness will be inextricably linked to the man you marry, and you will never again have this concentration of men who are worthy of you. Here’s what nobody is telling you: Find a husband on campus before you graduate. Yes, I went there.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Between this being sort of a "man, can you believe what this short letter to the editor says!" thing and the site just plain collapsing under load, I think maybe we should give this a pass. -- cortex
As Princeton women, we have almost priced ourselves out of the market. Simply put, there is a very limited population of men who are as smart or smarter than we are. And I say again — you will never again be surrounded by this concentration of men who are worthy of you.
Of course, once you graduate, you will meet men who are your intellectual equal — just not that many of them. And, you could choose to marry a man who has other things to recommend him besides a soaring intellect. But ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a man who just isn’t as smart as you.
A little projection there, maybe? And a very narrow or specific definition of "intellectual equal."
posted by rtha at 8:59 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Of course, once you graduate, you will meet men who are your intellectual equal — just not that many of them. And, you could choose to marry a man who has other things to recommend him besides a soaring intellect. But ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a man who just isn’t as smart as you.
A little projection there, maybe? And a very narrow or specific definition of "intellectual equal."
posted by rtha at 8:59 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, that was...wow.
I admit I expected a grumpy screed from a bow-tied dweeb who couldn't land a date, not an older woman alumnus.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2013
I admit I expected a grumpy screed from a bow-tied dweeb who couldn't land a date, not an older woman alumnus.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2013
My younger son is a junior [at the school in whose paper this piece appears] and the universe of women he can marry is limitless.
Oh, that poor, poor kid. He'll never live that down.
posted by gurple at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2013 [12 favorites]
Oh, that poor, poor kid. He'll never live that down.
posted by gurple at 9:01 AM on March 29, 2013 [12 favorites]
The fuck? Seriously one of the most inane letters to the editor I've seen in a long time.
(I read it here, found via Googling key phrases. You'll have to scroll down.)
posted by kmz at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2013
(I read it here, found via Googling key phrases. You'll have to scroll down.)
posted by kmz at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2013
Wow, this is amazingly bad advice. I met my partner when I was 27. I am sure glad I didn't marry the man I was dating when I was 20. 27 year olds have a much better grasp on life than the do at 20.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:02 AM on March 29, 2013
Sadly the universe of men he can marry is still being decided by the courts.
posted by The Whelk at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [13 favorites]
" So, by the time you are a senior, you basically have only the men in your own class to choose from, and frankly, they now have four classes of women to choose from."
This was written in what, 1956? FOR SHAME you should consider dating someone below yourclass grade. Hmmm, actually, I think she does mean class. In every sense.
posted by blackfly at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
This was written in what, 1956? FOR SHAME you should consider dating someone below your
posted by blackfly at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dear Women of Princeton For most of you, the cornerstone of your future and happiness will be inextricably linked to the man you marry...
Ugh. We have got to stop teaching this to our daughters.
posted by double bubble at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Ugh. We have got to stop teaching this to our daughters.
posted by double bubble at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
I am the mother of two sons who are both Princetonians. My older son had the good judgment and great fortune to marry a classmate of his, but he could have married anyone. My younger son is a junior and the universe of women he can marry is limitless. Men regularly marry women who are younger, less intelligent, less educated. It’s amazing how forgiving men can be about a woman’s lack of erudition, if she is exceptionally pretty. Smart women can’t (shouldn’t) marry men who aren’t at least their intellectual equal. As Princeton women, we have almost priced ourselves out of the market. Simply put, there is a very limited population of men who are as smart or smarter than we are. And I say again — you will never again be surrounded by this concentration of men who are worthy of you.
So... much... grar... must... resist!
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
So... much... grar... must... resist!
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:03 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a [person] who just isn’t as smart as you.
I know, right? Imagine how terrible my romantic life would have been if I didn't give hand every woman I dated a comprehensive math, history and political science exam.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013
I know, right? Imagine how terrible my romantic life would have been if I didn't give hand every woman I dated a comprehensive math, history and political science exam.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013
I was just going to post this!
MIND BOGGLED
Also, "hey, the only time you will meet a man worthy of you is at Princeton so get yourself one, yo."
MIND BOGGLED
posted by Kitteh at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013
MIND BOGGLED
Also, "hey, the only time you will meet a man worthy of you is at Princeton so get yourself one, yo."
MIND BOGGLED
posted by Kitteh at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013
Here is another truth that you know, but nobody is talking about. As freshman women, you have four classes of men to choose from. Every year, you lose the men in the senior class, and you become older than the class of incoming freshman men. So, by the time you are a senior, you basically have only the men in your own class to choose from, and frankly, they now have four classes of women to choose from. Maybe you should have been a little nicer to these guys when you were freshmen?
Because lord knows an 18 year old boy would never want to date a 22 year old.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
Because lord knows an 18 year old boy would never want to date a 22 year old.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:04 AM on March 29, 2013 [7 favorites]
There is a longstanding rumor - possibly a myth - that Princeton students tend to intermarry. See this old article for some coverage. Anyhoo, it makes the author's advice seem a bit superfluous to the end goal. (Also: crass.)
posted by Going To Maine at 9:05 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by Going To Maine at 9:05 AM on March 29, 2013
Here is another truth that you know, but nobody is talking about.
Possibly because it's not so much a truth. It's not like it's a bad thing to think about the kind of personal life you want early on as much as you think about your professional life, but there's no reason to bring regressive nonsense about the unacceptability of dating younger men (or women, this is remarkably heteronormative) into it.
posted by asperity at 9:05 AM on March 29, 2013
Possibly because it's not so much a truth. It's not like it's a bad thing to think about the kind of personal life you want early on as much as you think about your professional life, but there's no reason to bring regressive nonsense about the unacceptability of dating younger men (or women, this is remarkably heteronormative) into it.
posted by asperity at 9:05 AM on March 29, 2013
I have a sneaking suspicion that the author's issues in personal relations may stem more from what a insufferable snob she is than from timing. To wit:
You girls glazed over at preliminary comments about our professional accomplishments and the importance of networking.
Simply put, there is a very limited population of men who are as smart or smarter than we are.
Of course, once you graduate, you will meet men who are your intellectual equal — just not that many of them. And, you could choose to marry a man who has other things to recommend him besides a soaring intellect. But ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a man who just isn’t as smart as you.
Also: author went to Princeton 35 years ago. Times may have changed since then.
posted by LionIndex at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013
You girls glazed over at preliminary comments about our professional accomplishments and the importance of networking.
Simply put, there is a very limited population of men who are as smart or smarter than we are.
Of course, once you graduate, you will meet men who are your intellectual equal — just not that many of them. And, you could choose to marry a man who has other things to recommend him besides a soaring intellect. But ultimately, it will frustrate you to be with a man who just isn’t as smart as you.
Also: author went to Princeton 35 years ago. Times may have changed since then.
posted by LionIndex at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013
I know, right? Imagine how terrible my romantic life would have been if I didn't give hand every woman I dated a comprehensive math, history and political science exam.
Check the teeth too, mother isn't going to allow someone you met at Cabo to show up at the Easter dinner table. You want the house in Rhode Island? You play by the rules.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Check the teeth too, mother isn't going to allow someone you met at Cabo to show up at the Easter dinner table. You want the house in Rhode Island? You play by the rules.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Wow, this is sure all about the Ivy-League inbreeding, isn't it? Marry a Princeton man who will give you Princeton sons who marry Princeton women so that the bloodlines remain pure, I guess.
I mean, on top of the annoying tick-tock-biological clock thing.
posted by daisystomper at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013
I mean, on top of the annoying tick-tock-biological clock thing.
posted by daisystomper at 9:06 AM on March 29, 2013
My favorite tweet about this comes from the excellent Jennifer de Guzman: "Who does this woman think she is, Fucking Eleanor of Aquitaine? Your sons are not Richard the Lionhearted, who for the record was no bargain."
posted by Kitteh at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2013 [3 favorites]
I remember years ago, when I was in college, I used to spend the summers working in the library and hanging out with the few students who were left on campus. (It was a very small college.) Once, a good friend of mine and I ended up at an alumni function, since there was nothing better to do. We were cornered by a thirty-something alumnus who was busy spilling most of his fifth or sixth glass of wine on an awful Hawaiian shirt.
"You naïve kids," he drawled at us turgidly. "You don't know how good you've got it! Believe me, you've gotta live it up while the getting's good – these are the best years of your lives!"
We slipped past him and hurried away, getting out of the party as quickly as we could. But as we turned to go, my friend muttered under his breath:
"Sure, these are the best years of our lives – if we're unfortunate enough to end up like you."
posted by koeselitz at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
"You naïve kids," he drawled at us turgidly. "You don't know how good you've got it! Believe me, you've gotta live it up while the getting's good – these are the best years of your lives!"
We slipped past him and hurried away, getting out of the party as quickly as we could. But as we turned to go, my friend muttered under his breath:
"Sure, these are the best years of our lives – if we're unfortunate enough to end up like you."
posted by koeselitz at 9:09 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Besides Dick has both his hearts set on Phillip anyway.
posted by The Whelk at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by The Whelk at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2013
Yo, Sue, Chip Worthington '75 here. You had your chance, honey. I invited you to the hockey team's "Roofapalooza" party three seasons in a row, but you were all tight-assed about it. Who's the sheltered inbred sociopath now, huh?
posted by PlusDistance at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
The other thing we've got to stop doing is teaching our sons they are the best thing that will ever happen to a woman.
I'd like to think this woman is an anomaly, but personal experience suggests otherwise.
posted by double bubble at 9:11 AM on March 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'd like to think this woman is an anomaly, but personal experience suggests otherwise.
posted by double bubble at 9:11 AM on March 29, 2013 [5 favorites]
Listen, she bore you for 9 months and raised you as best she can, the least you can do is marry the person of her choosing to the correct family in order to raise social capital to and have an elaborate, high-cost wedding to make all her friends jealous. And no less than 2.5 grandchildren (but no more for godsakes people would talk.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:13 AM on March 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:13 AM on March 29, 2013 [4 favorites]
Never been to Princeton, but I'm guessing 18-22-year-olds there are pretty much as stupid as 18-22-year-olds at every other university.
I don't personally plan on telling my daughter to marry early and choose a partner based on the school he (or she) went to, but that's just me. I do actually have a daughter, though, so that's something.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't personally plan on telling my daughter to marry early and choose a partner based on the school he (or she) went to, but that's just me. I do actually have a daughter, though, so that's something.
posted by tylerkaraszewski at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, as someone who graduated high school the year she graduated college, please remember that attitudes then were quite different than attitudes now. Her attitudes are of her time, that is to say, THAT time.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 9:14 AM on March 29, 2013
It's amazing how many people who were born into extreme socioeconomic privilege are under the delusion that they are just plain better than everyone else. You're not smarter than everyone else, lady. Rutgers is filled with people smarter than you are, and smarter than your snowflake sons for that matter. You just don't can't see them because your privilege blinds you. Get over yourself.
I have a daughter. Her parents are both professionals, but I'd sooner shot myself in the foot than tell her that she can't marry whomever she wants, as long as that partner pursues an honest vocation, like welding, and not something shameful like investment banking or lobbying.
posted by 1adam12 at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have a daughter. Her parents are both professionals, but I'd sooner shot myself in the foot than tell her that she can't marry whomever she wants, as long as that partner pursues an honest vocation, like welding, and not something shameful like investment banking or lobbying.
posted by 1adam12 at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
(Rape jokes as a response to this stupid letter don't help anything.)
posted by kmz at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by kmz at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013
Just don't marry into Yale unless you want a huge pink person sweating on and on about how we need to invade Venezuela for it's own good all night.
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I have a sneaking suspicion that the author's issues in personal relations may stem more from what a insufferable snob she is than from timing.
To everyone saying or thinking a variant on this line - keep in mind that no matter how tolerant, open-minded, and down to earth a particular woman might be, it is a sad fact of life (American life, at least) that men flee highly educated, professionally successful women.
Almost every woman I know with a professional degree or PhD has too many stories to count where she was chatting up a guy she might have been interested in dating, just at a party or whatever other casual environment (you know, out in the real world, not at an "Ivy League Mixer"), and there came a point in the conversation where he said essentially: "and what do you do? Oh, you're a Harvard-educated scientist / lawyer / executive? Oh! That's great! I think I have to... um, I forgot my... eh..." and Zoom! He disappears.
So, yes. Potentially this woman is a upper-crusty hag who simply wouldn't deign to date the commoners. Or possibly, she has been disappointed throughout her life by cowardly, easily intimidated men and she wants to warn the next generation of successful women what they're in for out there. I don't agree with her ultimate conclusion, but it's a legitimate problem.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013
To everyone saying or thinking a variant on this line - keep in mind that no matter how tolerant, open-minded, and down to earth a particular woman might be, it is a sad fact of life (American life, at least) that men flee highly educated, professionally successful women.
Almost every woman I know with a professional degree or PhD has too many stories to count where she was chatting up a guy she might have been interested in dating, just at a party or whatever other casual environment (you know, out in the real world, not at an "Ivy League Mixer"), and there came a point in the conversation where he said essentially: "and what do you do? Oh, you're a Harvard-educated scientist / lawyer / executive? Oh! That's great! I think I have to... um, I forgot my... eh..." and Zoom! He disappears.
So, yes. Potentially this woman is a upper-crusty hag who simply wouldn't deign to date the commoners. Or possibly, she has been disappointed throughout her life by cowardly, easily intimidated men and she wants to warn the next generation of successful women what they're in for out there. I don't agree with her ultimate conclusion, but it's a legitimate problem.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:15 AM on March 29, 2013
you know, that jezebel link that was killed and debated in meta ? This is like the other side of that coin. Or something.
posted by k5.user at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by k5.user at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2013
It's not bad advice to say the person you marry (if you choose to marry) will be the most important factor in your future happiness. More important that your career anyway. I met my future wife in college in the '00s, not the '70s; it's a great opportunity to meet people. For me there hasn't been a better time since.
posted by 2bucksplus at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2013
posted by 2bucksplus at 9:16 AM on March 29, 2013
Well, as someone who graduated high school the year she graduated college, please remember that attitudes then were quite different than attitudes now. Her attitudes are of her time, that is to say, THAT time.
Okay. Then why are they being published in this time?
posted by double bubble at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Okay. Then why are they being published in this time?
posted by double bubble at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just don't marry into Yale unless you want a huge pink person sweating on and on about how we need to invade Venezuela for it's own good all night.
Uh huh. I went to Yale. I knew three, maybe four people out of the whole crowd who were as insufferably elitist as this lady. I'm still in touch with a couple of them; they got better.
posted by gurple at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2013
Uh huh. I went to Yale. I knew three, maybe four people out of the whole crowd who were as insufferably elitist as this lady. I'm still in touch with a couple of them; they got better.
posted by gurple at 9:17 AM on March 29, 2013
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