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April 17, 2013 8:48 AM   Subscribe

We Have Such Films To Show You - Damned souls cortex and griphus have been condemned to the infernal torment of watching all 10 Hellraiser movies, and wish to share their explorations of the further realms of experience with you in their new podcast. [via mefi projects]
posted by Artw (161 comments total) 40 users marked this as a favorite

 
Aren't there 9?
posted by czytm at 8:59 AM on April 17, 2013


I often wonder if you can even watch these movies without knowing the primary scource author writes gay S&M horror for a living?
posted by The Whelk at 9:03 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


Aren't there 9?

If you watch them all in the correct order, pause at just the right places, you will see another movie....

It's indescribable.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:04 AM on April 17, 2013 [17 favorites]


the primary scource author writes gay S&M horror for a living

*blink*

Forget the Hellraiser movies, I wanna watch a biopic about this guy because awesome.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:05 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


There are nine. Number ten has been in production hell for years and I'm not sure there's any hopeful signs that it'll actually happen yet.

Basically, griphus was WRONG WRONG WRONG and apparently it's catching. But we discuss it a bit in the podcast! Also this was super fun to do and I'm looking forward to doing the next one in about a week and a half. And I'd never submitted a podcast to iTunes before so that was sort of an exciting thing.
posted by cortex at 9:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Do they start to run out of ideas for Cenobites in the later movies, and just start phoning it in?


"Um...yeah, this one has a bike wheel on his head...and, um, this other one is 'Fish-hands'...he has, um, fish where his hands should be. They, uh, flap around and stuff."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [17 favorites]


With cortex on board, I'm sure I don't have to say this, but I will not tolerate any ANY bad mouthing of Terry Farrell when you watch Hellraiser III. ANY! She has an asteroid named after her for gods' sake!

Joey Summerskill/Cameraface OTP!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:08 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Griphus, where did you find the most perfect late 80s gay leather bar music?
posted by The Whelk at 9:12 AM on April 17, 2013


Do they start to run out of ideas for Cenobites in the later movies, and just start phoning it in?

Right! This next one is, uh, Toastmaster! Yeah! Toastmaster! Where he eyes should be, he has rusty toasters and he shoots burned waffles out of each one!
posted by octobersurprise at 9:15 AM on April 17, 2013 [9 favorites]


Do they start to run out of ideas for Cenobites in the later movies, and just start phoning it in?

The Hellraiser wiki (of course there's a Hellraiser wiki) has a nice not-so-little list of Cenobites, though this includes monsters that exist only in comics or script drafts so it's not quite the same as a cinema-only manifest.

Invent A Cenobite would be a pretty good party game with the right crowd, though, yeah.

Cortex where did you find the most perfect late 80s gay leather bar music?

That was all griphus, he was like "we should use Gatekeeper for the bumper music" and I was like who and he was like listen to this and OH MY GOD PERFECT.

They're actually a totally contemporary band, is the best part; that's just what they're going for aesthetically. There's a couple links in the blog post for episode one.
posted by cortex at 9:17 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


PLEASURE TOAST.
posted by Artw at 9:17 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


I salute you gentlemen for the effort! I pretty much checked out after they introduced zany shoots-CDs-out-of-his-head guy.
posted by usonian at 9:17 AM on April 17, 2013


Sadomasochists From Beyond The Grave!
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Personally, I wanted a film where they would introduce an Anchorite, who would be exactly like a Cenobite, but lived off by itself. Equally horrible, it would disfigure you more because it wanted to be left alone.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:18 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hellraiser 10: The Rise of Sandpaper Face is totes my fav. "No tears please. It's a waste of good buffering."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Hellraiser wiki (of course there's a Hellraiser wiki) has a nice not-so-little list of Cenobites,

quiet looking through that list for long will teach you the shape of pain
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Griphus, where did you find the most perfect late 80s gay leather bar music?

I got the EP simply based on the cover art alone and it quickly turned into one of my favorite things ever.
posted by griphus at 9:19 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


(I stand corrected. He dispenses CDs from his tummy and throws them like shurikens.)
posted by usonian at 9:21 AM on April 17, 2013


Invent A Cenobite would be a pretty good party game with the right crowd, though, yeah.

"How about a guy with ... MEAT HANDS!"
"That's a good one, but top GIFT HEAD"
posted by griphus at 9:24 AM on April 17, 2013 [7 favorites]


now Spotifying...Gatekeeper
posted by spicynuts at 9:25 AM on April 17, 2013


Hmmm....a slight nose of Front 242 with a whiff of early Depeche Mode and a nice round finish of The Orb. Excellent.
posted by spicynuts at 9:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Now I want business cards that say "Globe Trotting Pervert."
posted by The Whelk at 9:27 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


(It's okay griphus, I still can't watch the Christmas tree scene in Gremlins due to accidental early exposure to it.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:28 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I forget which one it is, but in one of them you can see a young Adam Scott in a period wig playing a villain.
posted by Kitteh at 9:28 AM on April 17, 2013


That would be Hellraiser 4: Bloodlines, Kitteh. I plotzed.
posted by cortex at 9:33 AM on April 17, 2013


He dispenses CDs from his tummy

Suddenly, the blasphemous realization that Teletubbies were just larval Cenobites was too much to bear.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:37 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


Six nipple-shaped gashes!
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 AM on April 17, 2013


I often wonder if you can even watch these movies without knowing the primary scource author writes gay S&M horror for a living?

Until you read The Books of Blood, at our school.
posted by Artw at 9:42 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fornicus, Lord of Bondage and Pain
posted by Artw at 9:49 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


PLEASURE TOAST.
It's really good, it's cheesetoast, see, but it's incredibly hot, so it burns the roof of your mouth, but you can't stop eating it, since it's soo good.
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [6 favorites]


And I'd never submitted a podcast to iTunes before so that was sort of an exciting thing.

It's also fairly easy. You doing the xml by hand or out of a CMS?
posted by cjorgensen at 9:51 AM on April 17, 2013


Books of Blood

o.O

"The Midnight Meat Train

A down-and-out man, Leon Kaufman, falls asleep on a New York subway train, later waking at a secret station beyond the end of the line. Kaufman encounters a man named Mahogany, who has killed and butchered several people and hung their bodies up on the train. Mahogany remarks that he will be forced to kill Kaufman to guard his secrets. Kaufman fights Mahogany and kills him in self-defense, but then the train doors open and strange malformed creatures board the train. The creatures eat the dead passengers, then force Kaufman to serve them as their new butcher, cutting out his tongue to ensure his silence. They tell Kaufman that Mahogany was getting old and could not do the job any longer, and that Kaufman now has a new career. It is also revealed that the creatures have also been the secret rulers of New York City for centuries. The police have always covered up for the creatures. Kaufman finds he now has lifetime employment.

A movie of the same name was released on August 1, 2008. The movie, for the most part, seems to follow the storyline of Barker's original design, minus the fact that the creatures themselves are described as having existed "Before the birth of any human, or longer" and it is the train conductor who tells him that he is now their new butcher. Bradley Cooper and Vinnie Jones star in the film."
posted by The Whelk at 9:53 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


By hand for now, since adding in a new <item> once every two weeks will probably be less work in total than futzing up a CMS over the short term. I figure we can just revisit that later if it gets to be a pain.

Books of Blood

Seriously, Clive Barker is just great. He's got a very specific thing going on so it's probably hit-or-miss on a per-person basis depending on your preferences, but as a horror writer with a strong voice he's kind of indispensable.
posted by cortex at 9:55 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I have never seen any of these movies. I guess I'll have to change that.
posted by koeselitz at 9:55 AM on April 17, 2013


I have never seen any of these movies. I guess I'll have to change that.

I don't remember if I mention this in the podcast, but all 10 9 are on Netflix Instant.
posted by griphus at 9:56 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Books of Blood

You'll never be see a photo of a human tower without thinking of In the Hills, the Cities.
posted by usonian at 9:58 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Well, I guess I know what I'm doing this afternoon, then.
posted by koeselitz at 9:58 AM on April 17, 2013


Clive Barker on Sex and Sexuality

His most notable story from that point of view might be In the Hills, the Cities, simply for having very matter of fact gay protagonists at a time that wasn't done, and sticking to his guns when a publisher asked him to change it.
posted by Artw at 10:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I am so looking forward to having this podcast in my life.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:01 AM on April 17, 2013


NIGHT OF THE PAPER HAT
posted by The Whelk at 10:02 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I always assumed Hellraiser was set in the UK, FWIW, but I think Hellraiser II is more clearly in the US.
posted by Artw at 10:04 AM on April 17, 2013


Books of Blood

"Whenever we're opened, we're red."
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:04 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I was watching something last night with my wife and she said something and I objected that "it's the night of the paper hat!" and basically it's possible this podcast is going to be a major source of annoyance for her.

I always assumed Hellraiser was set in the UK

Seriously, it is such a mystery to me. Maybe...maybe it wasn't just the Cottons who moved back to the old house, it was a whole big cult of expatriates? To the point where it is set in London but everyone we hear speak, other than Julia, is an American, because they all moved into the same neighborhood? Even the moving guys, they took their biz over to the UK. They moved all of the cultists. Even that horrid old lady in the pet shop is in on it.
posted by cortex at 10:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hellraiser III is worth it for the Armored Saint cameo and the title track by Motorhead
posted by Renoroc at 10:10 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hellraiser III felt like a betrayal to me because for some reason I was really into the Epic Hellraiser comics , which took heavily from the Mythos established in Hellraiser II.

IV demonstrates the Horror Film law that there must be a "In Space" film in every franchise.
posted by Artw at 10:20 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


I enjoyed the first episode and hope this series is crowned by a review of the over two hour long cut of Nightbreed.
posted by munchingzombie at 10:21 AM on April 17, 2013


Candyman is probably the best of the Barker film bunch - it may even bear rewatching as an adult and not seem silly.
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


This reminds me: I haven't read today's Larp Trek yet.
posted by slogger at 10:24 AM on April 17, 2013


I liked how the old Hellraiser comics I read all had the same plot... 'I have finally created my life time's work in music/writing/architecture/whatever*!... hello I'm Pinhead and that lifetime's work was actually a Lament Configuration, yes seriously... ARRRGHHH!'

*A slight variation was 'I have stolen the life-time's work of a friend I've just murdered!'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


In fact... this very thread.... ARRRGHHH!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:26 AM on April 17, 2013 [8 favorites]


I guess why I liked then is they were basically Lovecraftian stories, again often pretty repetitive, but with a bunch of fangoria nonsense on top.
posted by Artw at 10:30 AM on April 17, 2013


I'm racking my brain to think if there were any prior examples of the S&M Bondage Demon aesthetic in horror before Hellraiser. I think as the podcast suggests it may have pretty much invented that, which is amazing because shortly afterwards it was EVERYWHERE.
posted by Artw at 10:32 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh this is great. I watched the first two last year for the first time and loved them, but could see the obvious slide the franchise was about to take, so quit there.
posted by painquale at 10:33 AM on April 17, 2013


II is probably the peak of the "because symbolism" weirdness as well - random shit just happens in the others, but in a far more generic inept filmmaking way.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on April 17, 2013


Dies the US have paper party hats? That could be a UK signifier.
posted by Artw at 10:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I watched Bloodlines for the first time farily recently... which combines both the 'In Space!' and 'In The Past!' horror sequal cliches... oh boy, 'we have such sights to show you' indeed
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:39 AM on April 17, 2013


I haven't even seen somebody the ones after that... From what I have seen the quality (and level of relatedness to Hellraiser) drops steeply. I may be tempted to watch along thoughts the podcast though.
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on April 17, 2013


Paper hats is not particularly a US thing, no, other than conical birthday hats (but most folks would call those "birthday hats" or "party hats"), so I think you're right calling that a Barker UKism. Neither "night of the paper hat" or "night of the paper hats" seems to turn up anything in googling other than references to the film, though, so it's not even some minor idiom I guess, it's just good ol' Larry Cotton being inexplicable.
posted by cortex at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2013


Woah, I'd forgotten just how super-awful the last/latest one Revelations looked (even by cheap-o remake, found footage(?) standards). I imagine that would be total torture to sit through.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2013


cortex: "That was all griphus, he was like "we should use Gatekeeper for the bumper music" and I was like who and he was like listen to this and OH MY GOD PERFECT."

Holy shit. Thank you for this.

It even made me forgive you for the "gay S&M horror" thing, which I was going to complain about. Clive Barker has done a lot more than that, and a lot better than that sounds. (I'm one of those weird Barker fans who generally prefers his long form stuff.)
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2013


It even made me forgive you for the "gay S&M horror" thing

Hey, man, take that up with The Whelk, I just work here.

Woah, I'd forgotten just how super-awful the last/latest one Revelations looked

I believe that one was made in an astonishingly short period of time just to exercise their rights/option/whatever so it wouldn't expire. A sort of Metal Machine Music deal. That's the one that Doug Bradley refused to be in, and the replacement Pinhead is terrrrrrrrrible.
posted by cortex at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2013


Clive Barker has done a lot more than that, and a lot better than that sounds.

All I can remember about The Great and Secret Show is the one-armed Vietnam vet who masturbates with his phantom limb.
posted by roger ackroyd at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2013


I am stealing the line "The field where the town burns their evil things."
posted by The Whelk at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


roger ackroyd: "Clive Barker has done a lot more than that, and a lot better than that sounds.

All I can remember about The Great and Secret Show is the one-armed Vietnam vet who masturbates with his phantom limb
"

There was a Vietnam vet in The Great and Secret Show? It's been a while since I read it, but I can't remember that at all. That book blew my mind when I read it as a teenager, though.

That, along with Imajica and Weaveworld was my introduction to the whole secret world urban fantasy thing, and I still love those books to bits. Especially perhaps the beginning of The Great and Secret Show, with the whole picking up the global magical conspiracy through working in a dead letter office thing... I should probably pick them up and read them again some time soon.

(I remember being disappointed with Everville, though.)
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:03 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's the one that Doug Bradley refused to be in, and the replacement Pinhead is terrrrrrrrrible.

Yeah, I have to hand it to Bradley that even when his role degenerated into cameos for fanboy dollars, he never phoned it in.
posted by griphus at 11:04 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Barker was really, really good. Weaveworld is a masterpiece. His horror fiction was close to Lovecraft in that it had that fantasy/mind-snappingly-other element. I lost track of him around Coldwater Canyon, I think it was called, where it became a little more outré romance stuff.

The first couple of Hellraisers are great, according to me, cheesy lines and all. Nightbreed is still a favorite, too. Cronenburg as a slasher!

The podcast sounds great.
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:06 AM on April 17, 2013


TBH I consider everything after Weaveworld suspect, but there are some gems before that.

All I can remember about The Great and Secret Show is the one-armed Vietnam vet who masturbates with his phantom limb"

How else are you going to spooge onto your turds to make them into snake monsters?
posted by Artw at 11:07 AM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


So the collective term for Cenobites is a Gash.... I can now never unknow this
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:09 AM on April 17, 2013


"Oh Mario, we have such sights to show you!"
posted by The Whelk at 11:10 AM on April 17, 2013


So the collective term for Cenobites is a Gash.... I can now never unknow this

Is that true for the ecclesiastical meaning?
posted by Artw at 11:14 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I got the impression in some skimming the other day that gash is not merely a generic collective noun but the term for some specific subset or collective of Cenobites. So that e.g. Pinhead would be the leader of a gash that includes Chatterer, Butterball, and The Female Cenobite.
posted by cortex at 11:17 AM on April 17, 2013


Have they ever been to Scotland?
posted by Artw at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2013


Based on the novella -- the canonicity of which is up for discussion -- Pinhead et. al. are the Order of the Gash. The way that's phrased makes it sound like the order's proper name.
posted by griphus at 11:25 AM on April 17, 2013


Artw: "TBH I consider everything after Weaveworld suspect, but there are some gems before that.

All I can remember about The Great and Secret Show is the one-armed Vietnam vet who masturbates with his phantom limb"

How else are you going to spooge onto your turds to make them into snake monsters
"

That's Kissoon. I don't remember him being a Vietnam vet, though. And I don't think he masturbated with a phantom limb either, he actually, uh, made a lot of bugs crawl over his genitals?

(Ok, I'm not doing this book any favours here, I'm noticing. It's really good, though, honest!)
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:36 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I guess why I liked then is they were basically Lovecraftian stories, again often pretty repetitive, but with a bunch of fangoria nonsense on top.

Nonsense, if they had been reallty Lovecraftian, Pinhead would have spoken






wait for it....







...in the Dutch language!
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:40 AM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, for me, Barker was very good up to and including The Thief of Always (it's a kids' book, but still good). After that, it started dropping off. Everville was disappointing, Sacrament was... well, ok, actually, and I remember being bored out of my skull by Galilee.

But man, he was riding high with everything from Weaveworld to Imajica.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:45 AM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Submit to my toast! My pleasure toast! You hunger for it!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:50 AM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


...have been condemned to the infernal torment of watching all 10 Hellraiser movies

Jesus wept.
posted by 445supermag at 12:29 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Doug Bradley will not sign your cock.
posted by Artw at 12:48 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It almost seems worth getting a few cenobites tattooed on my back so I could ask Doug to sign my gash.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:24 PM on April 17, 2013 [4 favorites]


The thing I really enjoyed about Barker's 80s-early 90s novels was the sort of slow transition to the secret world; whereas in Neil Gaiman it's very matter of fact, like Pop! Hey wow a secret world (I love Neil, it's just a different approach). And Barker's worlds kept getting progressively weirder over time. These were terrific feats of imagination that really engaged my teen/early 20s imagination.
posted by Mister_A at 1:26 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I always liked Nightbreed. If you doubt me, it stars David Cronenberg, so you know it must be fun. It's based on "Cabal," a novella, in a collection by the same title.
posted by isawthat at 1:31 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I can't see Hellraiser without imagining the movie it could've been if he'd used the soundtrack that Coil were commissioned to record - which is amazing.

I remember reading an interview in the 80s where Peter Christopherson (from that group)mentioned that Barker wrote 'The Hellbound Heart' after watching his home videos of piercing/ritual/body art performances. That'd certainly explain the fishhooks.
posted by rock swoon has no past at 1:55 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah, they're basically horribly unsafe suspension hooks.
posted by griphus at 1:56 PM on April 17, 2013


isawthat: "I always liked Nightbreed. If you doubt me, it stars David Cronenberg, so you know it must be fun. It's based on "Cabal," a novella, in a collection by the same title"

I loved Nightbreed when I first saw it, but I watched it again a few years ago, and it hasn't aged well. It looks like a 90s made for TV movie. Although it's still a great story, and hey, Cronenberg as a psycho killer.

Good script, production not living up to the script's potential, I smell a potential remake.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:22 PM on April 17, 2013


/shudder.

Though, actually, isn't it basically a more horror version of all the fairytale-creatures-are-real shows we are plagued with at the moment?
posted by Artw at 2:25 PM on April 17, 2013


Joakim Ziegler: Yeah, for me, Barker was very good up to and including The Thief of Always (it's a kids' book, but still good). After that, it started dropping off. Everville was disappointing, Sacrament was... well, ok, actually, and I remember being bored out of my skull by Galilee.

But man, he was riding high with everything from Weaveworld to Imajica.


Yup. I read everything he wrote up through The Thief of Always. My reading seriously tapered off after that.

I loved Nightbreed when I first saw it, but I watched it again a few years ago, and it hasn't aged well. It looks like a 90s made for TV movie.

The secret to enjoying this movie now is to tell yourself that all hairstyles are actually parasitic Nightbreed clinging to people's skulls.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:43 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


I enjoyed the everliving fuck out of Clive Barker's stories back in the like '80s and early '90s.
I was nearly obsessed.
I even wrote a paper in high school about the secret-worldiness of practically all of his stories.
I need to re-read some of that stuff.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 5:15 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


The cool thing for me was that they were not only wildly inventive, but also gorgeously written.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:37 PM on April 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


Guys! I put the podcast on while I puttered around the house doing chores and getting ready to go out. I kept putting off going... and putting it off... and putting it off. Then you said [something like] "Well, we've been at this for almost two hours," and I said out loud "NO WAY." I was riveted*.

I can't wait for the next one. I miiiiight even rewatch (or, in the later cases, watch) the films.

*which, yes, sounds like a punishment a lower-echelon Cenobite might administer.
posted by Elsa at 6:02 PM on April 17, 2013


Good podcast, guys. Re: the ambiguity of the first movie's setting: I think you can see the Battersea friggin' Power Station, or something that looks like it, on the right side of the screen about twelve minutes in, when Kirstie is walking along the dock. Which makes the implied New England setting even stranger.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:03 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: The field where the town burns their evil things.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:08 PM on April 17, 2013 [3 favorites]


Artw: "Though, actually, isn't it basically a more horror version of all the fairytale-creatures-are-real shows we are plagued with at the moment?"

There's that, there's also the monsters as good guys thing, which was a lot more edgy back in the 90s, I guess. It certainly seemed very novel at the time, especially when the main threat turns out to be a posse of the kind that always seems to form in traditional horror movies to vanquish the monster.

But yeah, 20 odd years later, that's not at all as unusual. Still, Dave Deprave!
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:38 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Chains" is awesome. Also, this is the top comment under the video:

THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED BY NINJAS
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:23 PM on April 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


If only I were a bad enough dude...
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:13 PM on April 17, 2013


Wow, that was really entertaining! I might end up watching these, and I can't wait for the next episode.
posted by undue influence at 4:24 AM on April 18, 2013


That was wonderful. A whole week and a half until the next one?

Also, thanks for opening my eyes up to the "burning piles of stuff" scene at the end. Watching it as an adolescent, I thought it was just one of those "lots of steel drum fires in the bad part of town, like in any film set in NY" scenes. The "remnants of the burning house" theory makes so much more sense.
posted by Bugbread at 6:21 AM on April 18, 2013


"Submit to my toast! My pleasure toast! You hunger for it!"

Huh. I never saw that. That's like the time I imagined writing for the sexy Randian vampire market only to learn it was being done already. My ideas are a perfect cross-section of the American mind, apparently.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:30 AM on April 18, 2013


So I started a Facebook page in case people who aren't on Tumblr/don't use iTunes/don't follow either of us on Twitter want to stay in the loop about new episodes.

I doubt we'll be using it for anything but posting new biweekly episodes and maybe the occasional picture/bit of trivia, so you're not gonna get SIGN UP FOR LAUGHS 'N' GOOFS TODAY posts in your feed every half-hour.
posted by griphus at 7:44 AM on April 18, 2013


Quite a few of the Hellraiser films are on Youtube if you're idly curious: I'm watching Hellraiser II (with German subs) right now!
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 7:52 AM on April 18, 2013


Just listened to the episode; good stuff! I especially like that cortex turned me on to Jane Wildgoose, who designed the Cenobite costumes and who works on all sorts of cool art projects related to human remains and medical history.

(Mentioned on that page: "In fact the word "cenobite" is not one made from whole cloth by Barker. The term is defined as "referring to those monks who live and work within the larger community, as opposed to those who live and work in a monastery."" Is 'cenobite' the name of a job, not a race or species of demon? I always assumed the latter. Could Pinhead be kicked out of the order by Leviathan and no longer be a Cenobite, even if he's still a torture demon thing?)

Regarding the location of Frank's house: I seem to remember that Barker wanted it to be set in America, so he put a cheap prop somewhere to establish this. I thought that it was a policeman's hat, but given that I can't find mention of this on Google, either I have the prop wrong, or I'm thinking of the wrong movie, or I'm making up this whole story.

Given that you guys have already talked about a tenth movie, I think that you should write an outline of a script in secret, and for the tenth episode, have a conversation about that movie as if it had actually been made and you had watched it for the podcast like all the others.
posted by painquale at 7:56 AM on April 18, 2013 [3 favorites]


Thanks to this thread, and all the pleasure toast, I just realized artw has his gender down as 'Rusty Venture' on his profile. Man, the new season of Venture Bros. CANNOT get here fast enough!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:00 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


So the "who is a cenobite" question is surprisingly complicated just because of the irregularity of the canon. By the time you get to Hellraiser: Bloodline, which is the last canonical film, there are humans who became cenobites, cenobites of unknown origin, demons who are cenobites, demons who are not cenobites, and quasi-cenobites who look like cenobites but have never actually been taken to hell/the outer dimensions/whatever and therefore aren't considered "true" cenobites based on a definition of 'cenobite' that may or may not even apply anymore.
posted by griphus at 8:05 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


That being said, I don't think it is ever implied that a cenobite is a being that can be born. Every cenobite who has a background story was something else before they became one.
posted by griphus at 8:06 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Lets not get into a No True Cenobite argument here.
posted by The Whelk at 8:09 AM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


The comics just up the Cenobite inflation problem*, with every other story being a Cenobite origin story - featuring someone whose obsessions led them to an ultimate puzzle that turned out to be a Lament Configuration and yadda yadda yadda but this time they're sufficiently a sicko they get to be a torture demon instead of just a damned soul.

So the whole thing works by recruitment alone, except WTF is the "Engineer"?

(other extraneous elements include magic hobos, sinister shopfolk and the like. Cultists I guess.)

* I am not aware of a grisly inflated Cenobite, but there probably is one.
posted by Artw at 8:23 AM on April 18, 2013


Good script, production not living up to the script's potential, I smell a potential remake.

Then they'll make a movie version of Hellraiser Nightbreed: Jihad.
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Until you read The Books of Blood, at our school.

Every schoolboy should read "Jacqueline Ess: Her Will And Testament" during their formative years.
posted by homunculus at 10:41 AM on April 18, 2013 [1 favorite]


Q: Did you hear about Pinhead's new dog?
A: DON'T WORRY, HIS CENOBARK IS WORST THAN HIS CENOBITE
posted by cortex at 10:45 AM on April 18, 2013 [10 favorites]


The Chatterer has neither an overbite nor an underbite, but a cenobite.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:47 AM on April 18, 2013 [6 favorites]


except WTF is the "Engineer"?

I don't know if I actually said this in the podcast—I remember being surprised that griphus had "The Engineer" close to hand like that and may have gotten distracted—but having no idea what his/its name was when watching the film, I had him down in my notes as "upside down scorpion tail monster" which eventually got shorthanded to "Scorpio", which basically I think this would make a good Simpsons crossover origin story.
posted by cortex at 10:49 AM on April 18, 2013


I think it's "the Engineer" in the novella and is radically different, maybe some kind if higher order being, and not a goofy looking puppet.
posted by Artw at 10:53 AM on April 18, 2013


IIRC it doesn't show up at all for II, where we get Leviathan instead.
posted by Artw at 10:54 AM on April 18, 2013


I had something almost identical in my notes; I'll check them when I get home.

Anyway, in the novella (well, in the summary of the novella on Wikipedia,) the Engineer is the mastermind behind everything. So, yeah, in the first film he gets nerfed into a guard dog of some sort, and in the second film we have Leviathan.
posted by griphus at 3:11 PM on April 18, 2013


(Mentioned on that page: "In fact the word "cenobite" is not one made from whole cloth by Barker. The term is defined as "referring to those monks who live and work within the larger community, as opposed to those who live and work in a monastery."" Is 'cenobite' the name of a job, not a race or species of demon? I always assumed the latter. Could Pinhead be kicked out of the order by Leviathan and no longer be a Cenobite, even if he's still a torture demon thing?)

Yup. This is a major plot point in the recent Hellraiser comic book series that Clive Barker co-wrote, which makes it canon (at least as far as I'm concerned).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:14 PM on April 18, 2013


Man I bet the CD cenobite gets some stick from the other cenobites now, especially Ipod cenobite and generic MP3 player cenobite... even LP and cassette cenobite are all sneary at him now the're hypsterbites
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:01 PM on April 18, 2013 [4 favorites]


Gramophone Cenobite can now claim to be Steampunk.
posted by Artw at 4:06 PM on April 18, 2013 [2 favorites]


I hadn't seen any of these movies before. I wanted to follow along with the podcast, so I watched the first one on Netflix. It was weird. I think the cenobites come from a completely different fictive world than the Cottons. I can imagine a movie without Julia or Larry about Frank's descent into depravity, ending with the cenobites' ironic reward; I can imagine a movie without cenobites about Frank's return from the grave and Julia's murder campaign. The second one would probably make a good ghost story in its own right.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 4:14 PM on April 18, 2013


I feel like cortex and griphus tore my soul apart, frankly.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:30 AM on April 19, 2013


They also tore Frank apart, soulfully, for what it's worth.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:45 AM on April 19, 2013 [3 favorites]


Your podcast will be legendary, even in MetaFilter.
posted by Mister_A at 8:22 AM on April 19, 2013 [4 favorites]


Puzzle Guardian - basically all the random characters and random crap rolled into one.
posted by Artw at 12:20 PM on April 19, 2013


Damn it. Someone remind me which Hellraisers I have seen, because reading the descriptions of those after the abysmal Bloodlines... I have no idea.
posted by Mezentian at 7:07 PM on April 19, 2013


I won't go into detail because I gotta save it for the podcast, but I just watched II for the first time in who knows how many years and boy did I forget basically the entire first half of that film.
posted by cortex at 9:56 PM on April 19, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hellraiser II is my absolute favourite. I seem to recall it as basically Alice In Wonderland with Cenobytes. I'm going to be sad if it is not.
posted by Mezentian at 2:47 AM on April 20, 2013


My friends and I thought there should be a tie-in breakfast cereal. The could call it Ceno-bites, and it would have crunchy hooks and chewy marshmallow body parts.

As a prize, each box would also have a random piece of Frank. If you collected them all, you would get a special surprise....
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:36 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


So randomly I see this and like I've been on the internets for a while now so it's like nothing... so doing a bit of research / bored googling and I then I see this... which is beyond all pain and pleasure...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:54 AM on April 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


If you're wondering, does Doug Bradley have a gallery of photos of tattoos of himself? Yes, of course he does. The one above seems to be missing though.
posted by Artw at 8:45 AM on April 20, 2013


An idle quip to my wife at breakfast this morning has turned into a rough outline in three manic emails to griphus and the start of a draft of a script for a one-shot crossover comic titled Batman vs. Hellraiser. Just, like, FYI. Who knows if I'll actually get the whole thing written, let alone how I'd get it drawn, but there's some fertile fucking ground there.
posted by cortex at 5:46 PM on April 20, 2013 [4 favorites]


Pinhead vs Marshal Law: Law in Hell
posted by Artw at 8:30 PM on April 20, 2013


AFAIK that's not been repeated and isn't in te recent omnibus. Hmm. Tum-te-Tum-di-dum.
posted by Artw at 8:37 PM on April 20, 2013


The could call it Ceno-bites, and it would have crunchy hooks and chewy marshmallow body parts.

Free jagged metal Krusty-O in every box!
posted by usonian at 12:46 PM on April 23, 2013


Griphus, are you going to be doing Hellraiser 2 through 9 on your own, since cortex is quitting?
posted by Bugbread at 4:28 PM on April 23, 2013


No, no, my cabin on the mountain will still have skype access.
posted by cortex at 4:34 PM on April 23, 2013


Whew!

(Wipes sweat off brow)
posted by Bugbread at 4:40 PM on April 23, 2013


Bloodlines was kind of okay, I thought. I watched it on my iPhone at the laundromat, which seemed to suit it.

I wonder if I should keep going. I guess I have to now.
posted by koeselitz at 10:54 PM on April 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Episode 2, hot off the presses!
posted by cortex at 2:32 PM on April 28, 2013 [4 favorites]


The doctor is in! *

* Actually a really shit line.
posted by Artw at 2:53 PM on April 28, 2013


GURPS Hellraiser could so easily be a thing.
posted by Artw at 4:25 PM on April 28, 2013


It's been a while but I seem to remember some fan made Hellraiser rules for either GURPS or World of Darkness on usenet.
posted by the_artificer at 5:09 PM on April 28, 2013


Well, let's face it, the WoD folk would be all over this.
posted by Artw at 5:22 PM on April 28, 2013


I've only watched II once many years ago when I was pretty drunk... so I think I better give it a re-watch before I listen.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:55 AM on April 29, 2013


Part six ("Hellseeker") is really, really bad, you guys. It's like everything that was wrong with part five ("Inferno") done again and again until it's not only bad but utterly boring. Part seven ("Deader") was interesting enough that I am actually kind of hoping that the next two are not terrible, although not having Pinhead in the last one will be unfortunate.
posted by koeselitz at 2:21 PM on April 29, 2013


Let's be clear: it doesn't have Doug Bradley, the only true Pinhead in it. But it has Pinhead-the-character in it. And that turns out to be a lot more unfortunate than if they just left the character out entirely in Doug's absence.
posted by cortex at 2:25 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]


Doug Bradley has nothing on Zippy.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:26 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]


Maybe I was thinking of the policeman in Hellraiser 2 as the guy who settled whether the movies take place in America or England.

I have never seen any of these movies. I guess I'll have to change that.
posted by koeselitz at 12:55 PM on April 17


and then:

Part seven ("Deader") was interesting enough that I am actually kind of hoping that the next two are not terrible, although not having Pinhead in the last one will be unfortunate.
posted by koeselitz at 5:21 PM on April 29


Impressive speed!
posted by painquale at 2:36 PM on April 29, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, this what happens when I have a job where I work from home, no real life, and a Netflix account. Honestly, I've actually taken my time.

As I type this, I'm a third of the way through part 8, "Hellworld." Which is... not great. Rather terribly cheesy, actually, although I don't know what else I expected. It features a hideously terrible 1992-looking "Hellraiser" videogame that players apparently get addicted to. Yep.
posted by koeselitz at 4:04 PM on April 29, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Hellraiser" videogame that players apparently get addicted to.

Please note Hellworld was made in 2005.
posted by Artw at 4:08 PM on April 29, 2013


Bah, missed 1992-looking from my quote there. And it is, it really really is.
posted by Artw at 4:15 PM on April 29, 2013


Some interesting tidbits.

Seeing as I'm only partially though the second podcast, I don't know if you guys touch on this.

Julia was suppose to be the main antagonist, not pinhead.

Mr Barker thought it'd be cool to have a female horror villain, as it wasn't done before. This was later brought back in bloodlines, with a more charismatic actress.

Can't wait for your bloodlines episode, it's my favorite conceptually.
posted by The Power Nap at 10:00 AM on May 1, 2013


griphus totally did bring that out later in the podcast, yeah, and it was news to me and really interesting to consider as far as how the opening act of the film plays out. It really struck me on a second watch just how together Julia's shit was in the first half of the film, so it makes a kind of sense.

I am curious what I will think of Bloodlines once we get to it after the next one. I was feeling pretty uncharitable about its execution when I watched it for the first time last year.
posted by cortex at 10:20 AM on May 1, 2013


Bloodlines execution was horrible by all accounts, but the ideas behind it were fairly sound in my opinion. Basing it on the struggles of the creator and his family, having three epochs, and giving the series a definitive end were all pretty cool and not common in horror of that era. Besides, who wouldn't want to play a Space Station 13 scenario around the final epoch?

Mr Barker did have more involvement with it than Number 3, which could only be worse if they reworked it as 'Hellraiser Babies'.

As a film Number 2 is my favorite, as it's the one that squicked me out the most. You guys are totally right, The Doc chewed the scenery most appropriately.
posted by The Power Nap at 2:05 PM on May 1, 2013 [1 favorite]


3 is certainly "here's how you do this as a generic horror franchise" in a way 4 isn't - you could take out cenobites and replace them wiyh random fangoria minsters quite easily. The rest of the series pretty much follows its line.
posted by Artw at 2:37 PM on May 1, 2013


So caught up with II last night... even more bonkers than I remembered it first time around (and that was pretty bonkers). Had a 'where I have seen him before' until I remembered it was James Lionel Price. Afterwards I did a 'where are they now google' and wish I hadn't.

On with the podcast.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:16 AM on May 2, 2013


Aaaaaaand it's Episode 3! Guys, this was not a very good movie all in all.
posted by cortex at 10:51 AM on May 12, 2013 [2 favorites]


Heh.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on May 12, 2013


3 may not be very good, but it's notable for inspiring my planned crossover fanfiction epic "Trillraiser: Dax on Earth."
posted by koeselitz at 3:18 PM on May 12, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Come and play with us... OLD MAN."
posted by Artw at 3:22 PM on May 12, 2013


Funny thing is that, by the end of the last season of DS9, they had pretty much turned Gul Dukat into a cenobite anyway.
posted by koeselitz at 4:49 PM on May 12, 2013


Shall we begin?

/puts on KMFDM.
posted by Artw at 9:55 AM on May 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


More completly random music notes:

Most of that Spawn album is garbage, but the version of Orbital's Satan on it is great. I think they were trying to replicate the rap/metal crossover gold of the Judgement Night soundtrack album, which was about a billion times better than it should be.

Also congratulations on apparently not remembering Bowie's Tin Machine experiment.
posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2013


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