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Love is the Law
May 13, 2013 6:30 AM   Subscribe

Today, at noon (central daylight time) the Minnesota Senate will begin debate on a bill to legalize same sex marriages. The bill already passed the Minnesota House. As Reuters reports, the Senate will likely pass the bill, and Governor Mark Dayton has promised to sign it into law.

The St. Paul Pioneer Press reports that gay marriage has made a dramatic turn in Minnesota in just two years. As Minnesota Public Radio's Tom Scheck notes, just two years ago a Republican controlled state legislature thought it would benefit them to place a constitutional ban on gay marriage on the ballot.

One live stream of the debate in the Minnesota Senate will be here. Minnesota Public Radio will also have a liveblog.

MinnPost suggests the Suburbs' Love is the Law (YouTube link) may become the unofficial celebratory anthem for the legalization of gay marriage in Minnesota. Chan Poling from the Suburbs discussed his support for gay marriage with the Current and revealed that the song may be performed at the big celebration on Tuesday after the governor signs the bill.
posted by Area Man (711 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite

 
It's amazing to me that it's only been six months (and a few days) since Minnesotans voted against the amendment to codify "one man, one woman" as an amendment to their constitution. (I love this video)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:34 AM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Fingers crossed! :)

On the other hand, three, two, one until my religious family members start that whole "please pray for Minnesota" bullshit on Facebook.
posted by Kitteh at 6:36 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh good, I was worried I'd have to listen to MPR for news on this, and there's a membership drive going on right now.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:40 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Seimone Augustus (WNBA Minnesota Lynx star) and LaTaya Varner want to get married in Minnesota.
posted by Carol Anne at 6:40 AM on May 13, 2013


Marcus Bachmann is not having a good day today.
posted by bardic at 6:41 AM on May 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


Thinking about Marcus Bachmann's reaction to this means I'm having a great day today!
posted by dinty_moore at 6:43 AM on May 13, 2013 [17 favorites]


Are we gonna have an FPP for all 50 states? All this awesome and amazing progress of human rights inconceivable only a few years ago stuff is getting repetitive. After a while all these joyous, "I can finally officially marry and get full legal rights with my beloved partner of decades," quotes just blend together.

When do we get to the man on turtle marriages?
posted by Drinky Die at 6:44 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yeah, maybe we will. Sorry that LGBT people getting basic human rights isn't newsworthy to you.

wait no i'm not
posted by elizardbits at 6:45 AM on May 13, 2013 [40 favorites]


check your sarcasm meter elizardbits
posted by Think_Long at 6:46 AM on May 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


Important not only because the gay marriage issue sort of started in Minnesota--see Baker v. Nelson.
posted by sexymofo at 6:49 AM on May 13, 2013


Also, did the other votes have unofficial theme songs? I think not.

Seriously, one of the most noticeable things about the 'vote no' campaign last summer was their graphic design, and I think it was one of the things that seriously helped people get involved and for the amendment to fail. It just looked cool, like something you wanted to be part of.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:49 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Can Wisconsin be next?
posted by desjardins at 6:51 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


Aww, I fucking love my city.
posted by Think_Long at 6:51 AM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


I still can't even process this. I've lived in Minnesota for a while now (in various liberal bubbles) but I never would have guessed this bill would fly with the state at large. Gay couples can't even adopt kids here! Well I guess they can now, if they get married.

Go us!
posted by miyabo at 6:52 AM on May 13, 2013


"Minnesota: where all the women are strong, the men are good looking, and all marriages are soon to be equal under the law."
posted by schmod at 6:52 AM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


Are we gonna have an FPP for all 50 states?

I hope so. Let's just get them all out of the way this year so we can get back to cat pictures.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:53 AM on May 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


But when will Minnesota legally sanction my confusing feelings about whatever it is that Prince has going on?
posted by midmarch snowman at 6:55 AM on May 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


Aww, I'm on a bus from Mpls to St. Paul right now and like half the riders are obviously on their way to the Capitol. Orange shirts, rainbow face paint, people are smiley, it's very sweet.
posted by clavicle at 6:55 AM on May 13, 2013 [17 favorites]


Are we gonna have an FPP for all 50 states?

Personally I'd prefer one FPP about the fact that the entire nation just woke up tomorrow and said, hey, this is increasingly stupid, let's fix it, and now gay marriage is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC and Puerto Rico can come too.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:56 AM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


Are we gonna have an FPP for all 50 states?

Don't worry. I doubt you'll ever see an FPP on this for Indiana. At least not in my lifetime. It'll be settled on a Federal level before Indiana discovers the 21st century.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:57 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


We can hope, Thorzdad. We can hope.
posted by AstroGuy at 6:58 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


miyabo: "Gay couples can't even adopt kids here!"

I thought that was changing? I know a single GBLT person can adopt a child without question. But I thought that some areas do co-parent adoption and some don't?
posted by zarq at 6:58 AM on May 13, 2013


now gay marriage is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC and Puerto Rico can come too.

PHRASING!
posted by zombieflanders at 6:58 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Oh, and miyabo, same sex couples can indeed adopt here, both jointly and second-parent.
posted by clavicle at 7:00 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


clavicle, thanks. Good to hear!
posted by zarq at 7:01 AM on May 13, 2013


check your sarcasm meter elizardbits

don't you dare judge my support for the lemur gorilla beaver turtle community
posted by elizardbits at 7:02 AM on May 13, 2013 [20 favorites]


(I'm on a phone, obvs, but my sources are outfront and mnadopt.org)
posted by clavicle at 7:03 AM on May 13, 2013


now gay marriage is legal in all 50 states and Washington, DC and Puerto Rico can come too.

PHRASING!
posted by zombieflanders at 9:58 AM on May 13 [+] [!]
Stupid sexy zombie Flanders.
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:04 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I thought the phrasing point is that we don't call it gay marriage. It's just marriage, equality extended to all people, as you know, promised in the Constitution.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:06 AM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


(I love this video)

It is like, the _best_. And still guaranteed to make me tear up whenever I watch it. If you haven't seen it before, around 2:50 is the money moment, but it's well worth watching all the way through.
posted by kmz at 7:08 AM on May 13, 2013


Man, I have a lot of thoughts about this:

1. As a Minnesotan, it's unusual and kind of wonderful to feel unconflictedly good about something happening in the state legislature. And I've been lukewarm on Mark Dayton all along, but this is a pretty good legacy he'll be picking up by signing the bill.

2. But more than that? Since the rash of horseshit gay marriage bills that got trotted out in 2004 all over the country, I've become really conscious of the fact that unfairness bugs me at a deep level. And the unfairness of marriage laws until now has just filled me with rage. It makes me happy to the point of tearing up to see a chunk of that unfairness get rolled back.

3. I'm usually really pessimistic about all things political, and it's excellent to have that pessimism challenged.

4. A small, mean, part of me is glad to know that the assholes who've been on the radio implying that my 10-year marriage is a sham because my wife and I don't have kids are all having a very bad week.
posted by COBRA! at 7:11 AM on May 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


Can Wisconsin be next?

Not until they amend their constitution, which I believe would require majorities in two successive state legislative sessions followed by a successful referendum.

Right now, it is actually a crime for Wisconsin residents to go "outside the state and there contract[] a marriage prohibited or declared void under the laws of this state." Wisc. Stat. 765.30(1)(a). It is punishable by up to 9 months imprisonment, a fine of up to $10,000, or both. I assume County Attorneys in Wisconsin wouldn't actually prosecute couples who go and get married in Minnesota or Iowa, but, still, that's a horrible, horrible law.
posted by Area Man at 7:11 AM on May 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


Also, compliments to The Suburbs who definitely donated use of their awesome song and its title:
http://thesuburbsband.com/2013/05/love-is-the-law/

(And I know it's real, because when I said something nice about them on FaceBook last week Chan Poling 'Liked' my comment. Squee!)
posted by wenestvedt at 7:13 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, did the other votes have unofficial theme songs? I think not.

Washington State would like to have a word with you.
posted by psoas at 7:14 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


My district is one of the most conservative districts in the state of Minnesota. Yes, Michele Bachmann is my US Representative.

But I am so very, very lucky that Zachary Dorholt is my state representative. Here is his speech from Thursday's vote.
posted by jillithd at 7:15 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]



Don't worry. I doubt you'll ever see an FPP on this for Indiana. At least not in my lifetime. It'll be settled on a Federal level before Indiana discovers the 21st century.


He does not jest. Indiana adopted daylight savings time in 2005.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:18 AM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


From the last thread:

GOP Lawmaker Gives Teary-Eyed Lament After Gay Marriage Passes Minn. House
After a bill to pass same-sex marriage in Minnesota cleared an important hurdle on Thursday, a Republican lawmaker wept and said her "heart breaks" for the state.

Following the bill's passage in the Democratic-controlled state House of Represenatives, state Rep. Peggy Scott (R) grew emotional on the floor of the chamber.

“My heart breaks for Minnesota. It’s a divisive issue that divides our state," Scott said as she wiped tears from her face, according to the Minneapolis Star Tribune. “It’s not what we needed to be doing at this time. We want to come together for the state of Minnesota, we don’t want to divide it.”
IMO: Well, Rep. Scott, stop trying to fucking keep people divided.

Our Cruel, Divisive Intolerance of Bigotry
So if your negative views about homosexuality (no longer supported by science, public opinion or even recent tradition) are not enshrined in state law, you are being smeared as “bigots,” and it’s those who just want to be treated equally under the law who are “dividing” the people.

I understand an alarming number of Republican politicians are currently depending for their political support on encouraging older white traditionalist Catholics and conservative evangelicals—people who consider an older culture to be eternally normative, just like culturally threatened people in all times and in all places always have—to feel aggrieved and persecuted. But still, you have to wonder if they are really listening to themselves. The exact same arguments have been used in opposition to every significant move towards equality in American history. They make no more sense now than they did when advanced by those who were certain their country would be “lost” and God Almighty righteously offended when the slaves were freed, women obtained the vote, Jim Crow was torn down, and the oppressive forces of “political correctness” took all the fun out of casual bigotry. They’ll get over it, but tolerating their immense self-pity is quite a cross to bear.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:19 AM on May 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


A thing I continue to not understand is how people who say they believe in small government are also a-okay with a government that makes illegal for people - adults! Citizens! - to make a certain kind of contract out of state.

I mean, yes, gays are icky etc., but really? That there are people with a capacity for cognitive dissonance that great continues to amaze me.
posted by rtha at 7:21 AM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


They just want government small enough to fit in your bedroom.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:24 AM on May 13, 2013 [7 favorites]


Yeah, well. Same Love doesn't count because ... reasons. Or something.

We're the only one where the state legislature vote has its own theme song, rather than the popular vote?
posted by dinty_moore at 7:24 AM on May 13, 2013


A thing I continue to not understand is how people who say they believe in small government are also a-okay with a government that makes illegal for people - adults! Citizens! - to make a certain kind of contract out of state.

Handy guide
Libertarian: "I believe that individuals should be responsible for themselves, not government"
Conservative: "I believe that business and the free market should be responsible for the population, not government"
Tea Party: "I am a dick"
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:24 AM on May 13, 2013 [15 favorites]


I love it when the arc of the moral universe is doing its bending. Good job, MN.
posted by ersatz at 7:32 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Let's do this, Minnesota!

If anyone else is going, I'm headed up to the Capitol from my office around noon today. I'll be the guy wearing orange skinny jeans and a blue blazer. I have some stuff to do this afternoon, so I can't stay long, but I'd love to meet my fellow pro-equality MeFites at the Capitol today.

MeMail me if you wanna connect, or just seek me out! Free hugs!
posted by elmer benson at 7:34 AM on May 13, 2013


The Capitol steps this morning.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:36 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I have a friend in Minneapolis who's been posting about this campaign for months on FB. She's down at the legislature today in the hopes of seeing history made. I wish I could go down to the Capitol here in Austin with a prospect of hearing such good news.
posted by immlass at 7:36 AM on May 13, 2013


Here is a crappy phone picture of the Capitol steps, with lots of orange shirts, taken about a half hour ago. :D
posted by clavicle at 7:37 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


haha jinx except above pic is actually good
posted by clavicle at 7:37 AM on May 13, 2013


The City of Saint Paul has decorated the Wasbasha Street Bridge across the Mississippi and temporarily re-named it "The Wabasha Stree Bridge to Marriage Equality." (from the Mayor's Facebook Page)

I really love Minnesota all the time; my heart is just bursting today.
posted by elmer benson at 7:38 AM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


clavicle, the MN United for All Families feed is great.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:38 AM on May 13, 2013


Thinking about how assholes like Marcus Bachmann, who make money by peddling their specific brand of homophobia, are having a terrible day is making me gleeful.
posted by inertia at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2013


Kitteh: "
On the other hand, three, two, one until my religious family members start that whole "please pray for Minnesota" bullshit on Facebook.
"

My response to that sort of shit (since they never say "Pray to uphold bigotry", just "pray for the state" or "Pray for lawmakers") is usually along the lines of "You realize that if I pray, it's not for the outcome *you* want, right?"
posted by notsnot at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Right now, it is actually a crime for Wisconsin residents to go "outside the state and there contract[] a marriage prohibited or declared void under the laws of this state."

Holy shit, that is unbelievably vile, and it makes me want to move to Wisconsin and just rub my gay all over the fucking place.
posted by elizardbits at 7:41 AM on May 13, 2013 [18 favorites]


A thing I continue to not understand is how people who say they believe in small government are also a-okay with a government that makes illegal ...

I'm not going to defend either of these positions, but I think we should stop making this argument since it's rather obvious that the goals are: enshrine Christian Morality in Law, and Pay Zero Cents in Taxes. It's really not that cognitive-dissonancy. There's a sort of separate argument about reducing government "regulation", but it's not hard to see how that could be secondary to the Morality Enforcement. Again, I think Morality Enforcement is stupid, but it's not that self-contradictory.
posted by kiltedtaco at 7:43 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


to Wisconsin and just rub my gay all over the fucking place.


I've tried that more than once on a few visits, and it sadly didn't seem to stick except at a very local level.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:45 AM on May 13, 2013 [18 favorites]


I thought the phrasing point is that we don't call it gay marriage.

I thought it was just this.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:46 AM on May 13, 2013


Oops, I meant that as a kind of dirty joke but it came out sounding lots dirtier than intended.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:46 AM on May 13, 2013 [10 favorites]


Gay couple to decide whether to recognize Minnesota Senate

At noon (central daylight time) Nicholas Austad and Carl Becker, a gay couple whose abiding love and deep commitment to one another is obvious to all, will begin a debate in their kitchen about whether to recognise the Minnesota Senate. Austad and Becker have already approved of the Minnesota House.

Reports suggest that Austad and Becker are likely to agree that the Minnesota Senate is an actual thing that exists, despite some opposition among their community. Indeed, Austad has previously visited the Minnesota Senate - and Becker once saw its operations on TV, although that initially led to more questions than answers.

In other topsy-turvy pseudonews lacking a clear satirical punch, President Obama has confirmed that the American people are doing an "OK job" of being the populace of a nation, and has decided to give them another and final four-year term before they have to step down. "I think they deserve a second chance", said the President, "and besides, I wasn't really sure about voting for the other guys."
posted by the quidnunc kid at 7:46 AM on May 13, 2013 [44 favorites]


He does not jest. Indiana adopted daylight savings time in 2005.

You say that like it's a bad thing. DST is stupid to begin with. And it was only the eastern time zone that adopted it. Central always observed it. But, back on topic, I can hope that my home state will come into the 21st century before we reach the 23rd.
posted by AstroGuy at 7:47 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"please pray for Minnesota"

I am, but I am praying to allah, so don't hold your breath.
posted by marienbad at 7:58 AM on May 13, 2013


rtha: "A thing I continue to not understand is how people who say they believe in small government are also a-okay with a government that makes illegal for people - adults! Citizens! - to make a certain kind of contract out of state. "

They don't want government to infringe on their rights. But if it stomps on anyone else's, well, them's the breaks.

No, not just that. They actively encourage inequality of civil and human rights.

Another level of "Fuck you, I've got mine" asshole behavior.
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Holy shit, that is unbelievably vile, and it makes me want to move to Wisconsin and just rub my gay all over the fucking place.

We have a futon for you!
posted by desjardins at 8:01 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm not going to defend either of these positions, but I think we should stop making this argument since it's rather obvious that the goals are: enshrine Christian Morality in Law, and Pay Zero Cents in Taxes

I think this is an excellent point, but I'd say that outside of Metafilter I think it's increasingly important to expose this mindset for what it is, as typically these people don't explicitly reveal their intentions.

I had it explained to me this way when we had all of the GOP candidates going at it for president: Ron Paul wants to severely limit government, but Rick Santorum wants a theocracy. They are both crazy, but quite different.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:05 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, three, two, one until my religious family members start that whole "please pray for Minnesota" bullshit on Facebook.

My facebook is full of this right now actually - but they're busy praying for marriage equality rather than against it. /yay the ELCA
posted by Stynxno at 8:05 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I don't believe in the concept of (permanent, monogamous) marriage (for me) at all, and generally wish that the government would keep out of the marriage business altogether because at this point, allowing state-by-state decisions like this don't seem to do anything except impede progress. And I know a law like this will not pass in Wisconsin anytime soon -- the Republicans did an altogether enviable job of gerrymandering districts in order to effectively guarantee that they will continue to hold both chambers of the state government for at least the next decade. Also, we will continue to endure the seemingly unending shitshow that is being governed by Scott Walker for at least another 1.5 years.

But! Every time I read about another state passing a marriage equality law, I immediately burst into tears of joy. And envy. But mostly joy. It is so rare that new news is good news, and any bit of it that informs me more people will be able to publicly declare and legally record their love and devotion to one another is GREAT news.

Congratulations from your perpetually beleaguered, politically backwoods next-door neighbors, Minnesota! I'll be popping some bubbly on your behalf.
posted by divined by radio at 8:12 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


elizardbits: "Holy shit, that is unbelievably vile, and it makes me want to move to Wisconsin and just rub my gay all over the fucking place."

WisCon is in two weeks. Come rub with the rest of us!
posted by jiawen at 8:15 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Congratulations from your perpetually beleaguered, politically backwoods next-door neighbors, Minnesota! I'll be popping some bubbly on your behalf.

At least you can buy it on Sundays . . .
posted by Think_Long at 8:16 AM on May 13, 2013 [7 favorites]


"I think they deserve a second chance", said the President, "and besides, I wasn't really sure about voting for the other guys."

Speaking as one of "the other guys" (Canada) I just don't get this. We're clean, we're polite, we've already legalized gay marriage and have universal health care - I don't know what else we have to do to get Obama's vote.

It's the hockey, isn't it? Maybe we should spend the next four years working on basketball instead. But after the playoffs.

Go Minnesota! on the gay rights thing I mean; you're already out of the playoffs. Bad luck getting Chicago in the first round; they look pretty tough this year. But hey, with realignment and everything coming up next year, I think you have lots to look forward to.
posted by never used baby shoes at 8:28 AM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


Yay for the Suburbs!

(Worst LP they put out but, whatever...)
posted by Windopaene at 8:42 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Don't worry. I doubt you'll ever see an FPP on this for Indiana. At least not in my lifetime. It'll be settled on a Federal level before Indiana discovers the 21st century.

He does not jest. Indiana adopted daylight savings time in 2005.


Still in before Arizona
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 8:45 AM on May 13, 2013


He does not jest. Indiana adopted daylight savings time in 2005.

Still in before Arizona


Blame the Pulliams (and the Quayles). Newspaper owners in Indiana and Arizona; their hostility to daylight savings is a large part of why neither state adopted it along with the rest of the country.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:52 AM on May 13, 2013


Speaking as one of "the other guys" (Canada) I just don't get this

Oh, get over it. quidnunc kid didn't win the 2012 election, but you don't see quidnunc kid continually whining on about how people should vote #1 quidnunc kid, do you?

I mean, I'm sure everyone will vote #1 quidnunc kid in their own time.

So, in summary, vote #1 quidnunc kid. Thanks.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 9:03 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Aw, that Wabasha Bridge picture is getting me a little choked up! So happy to see this coming to pass. My partner is from Minnesota and was tied up in knots right up to the House vote last week; I kind of get the feeling she'll be making plans for us to move out there post-haste (and considering I'm from Florida, I suppose this is going to be our only option for living as a married couple in either of our home states any time soon).

Pretty sure a Minnesota celebration is in order - let's see, hot dish, Mighty Ducks ... anyone have a good recipe for rainbow bars?
posted by DingoMutt at 9:06 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Rainbow bars... Are those like rice krispie bars but with fruity pebbles?
posted by jillithd at 9:10 AM on May 13, 2013


Yay for the Suburbs!

The marvelous title for this FPP immediately tipped me off that Area Man in a Minnesotan. Love IS the law.

On May 18, 1970, Richard Baker and James Michael McConnell walked into the Hennepin County District Court and applied for a license to be married. Richard Baker, nicknamed Jack, was the first president of the University of Minnesota's first gay student union, Fight Repression of Erotic Expression (FREE). Jack Baker was unexpectedly popular on campus -- running under an explicit message of gay pride, he was elected student body president in 1971.

Minnesota law at the time did not explicitly forbid same-sex marriage, and so Jack Baker and Michael McConnell applied. The clerk turned them down flat. So they sued. The case went to the Minnesota Supreme Court, which upheld the clerk's decision. They then appealed the Supreme Court, which refused to hear the case. In 1971, Baker spoke at the Ramsey County Bar Association. "I am convinced that same-sex marriages will be legalized in the United States," he said.

It is 43 years since Baker applied for that license, minus five days. Baker and McConnell have been together this entire time, using whatever legal mechanisms and loopholes could allow them to live as a married couple. They have been filing their tax returns as a couple since 2000.

It's your time, Jack. At last.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:18 AM on May 13, 2013 [19 favorites]


Rainbow bars... Are those like rice krispie bars but with fruity pebbles?

I was thinking any sort of dessert "bar" that could be made extra rainbow-y, but now that you mention it, fruity pebbles rice krispie bars could work - they certainly look cloyingly delicious ...
posted by DingoMutt at 9:24 AM on May 13, 2013


This is a good time to remember Allan Spear. Spear, a historian, was elected to the MN state senate in 1972, and came out publicly in 1974. He was one of the first out elected officials in the country. Spear was a major force in passing a human rights act forbidding discrimination against LGBT Minnesotans, in 1993 (we still don't have this nationally). Responding to people who said his sexuality was a choice, Spear said:

"I could do nothing about what I was. I did make a choice. My choice had to do with how I would deal with who I was. I chose, after many years of hiding who I was, to be open, to be who I am and to live my life without shame or apology and that's a choice I've never regretted."

Allan Spear died in 2008.
posted by cushie at 9:26 AM on May 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


Photo (on facebook) from last Thursday after the House vote
posted by edgeways at 9:27 AM on May 13, 2013


Oh, look, Peggy Scott is being an asshole again (from the MPR liveblog):
Minnesota state Rep. Peggy Scott, Daily Circuit guest and House assistant minority leader just now on the radio:

"I do believe that government does have an interest in marriage, because it is and does provide a cornerstone in our society for rearing children."
Then I expect you'll be forcing infertile people and those past the age of child-bearing to divorce, right?
posted by zombieflanders at 9:32 AM on May 13, 2013 [7 favorites]


The compromise in the House which allowed a number of Republican reps to vote in favor of legalizing was the provision that would insert the word "civil" before all instances of the word "marriage" in Minnesota statutes. I think that's a pretty cool thing.

Don't get me started on Rep. Peggy Scott, though. Yeesh.

Man, I really never expected my dream to come anywhere close to true. This may not have been the first bill introduced, but man - I'll take it.

Also, to heck with Marcus Bachmann - I wish I could see Bradlee Dean squirming right now.
posted by nickmark at 9:35 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hee! Dingo, I'd encourage it! My Floridian boyfriend (and eventual husband?? omg) moved up here with me in 2009 and neither of us have regretted it for a second. =)
posted by kavasa at 9:38 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I just went to the Bradlee Dean Wikipedia page and was astonished to discover I am one of the references.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:40 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Since Allan Spear has been mentioned, I'll say that I find the following quote from Minnpost to be particularly poignant (the Marty in question is John Marty, a State Senator who has consistently supported equal marriage rights):

“One of my last conversations with Allan was about this (marriage),’’ Marty said. “It was the year he died (2008). He said ‘We’re not going to get marriage equality.’ He thought we should fight for civil unions. I said, ‘separate is not equal and you know it.’ I think back to that time. Things have changed that much, that fast.’’

Only five years have passed and now it seems like gay marriage might be legal in Minnesota by August 1 (that's the date most new laws take effect in Minnesota.)
posted by Area Man at 9:46 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Hee! Dingo, I'd encourage it! My Floridian boyfriend (and eventual husband?? omg) moved up here with me in 2009 and neither of us have regretted it for a second. =)

You're only saying that because it's spring and our spring is awesome enough to make the winter and not-all-that-much-cooler-than Florida summers seem worthwhile.

Ask again in January.

If I remember correctly, the referendum we had last Nov was basically a ploy by the GOP to push voter turn-out wasn't it? We uh, kinda went the other way on that one.
posted by VTX at 9:49 AM on May 13, 2013


In my opinion, all these US States that are making gay marriage "permissable" are just WASTING TAXPAYERS' TIME AND MONEY, and what they SHOULD be doing is making gay marriage mandatory, because otherwise I will die alone and unloved. So for God's sake please help me, I am so lonely. Thank you.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 9:49 AM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


zombie flanders, perhaps she will try to push to make marriage illegal unless it is between two people who are biologically capable of reproducing and and agree to swear to produce children within an agreed upon number of years, otherwise their marriage will be invalidated by the state.
posted by inertia at 9:59 AM on May 13, 2013


here goes
posted by edgeways at 10:01 AM on May 13, 2013


Two of the biggest heroes in this are Rep. Karen Clark and Sen. Scott Dibble. They've been tireless defenders of GLBT rights in the Minnesota legislature. This is a good day for both of them.

(Also: Holy cow, Scott's grown a beard! When did that happen?)
posted by jiawen at 10:01 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's another place to watch the Senate debate live.
posted by jiawen at 10:03 AM on May 13, 2013


I made these cookies. (no really, I made them) Have a sweet and happy day Minnesotans!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 10:06 AM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


jiawen - I think maybe over the summer, or maybe even a little before that. He's had it all this session, at least.
posted by nickmark at 10:07 AM on May 13, 2013


a brief recess already? dammit, some of us wanted to get this done over our lunch breaks.
posted by Think_Long at 10:13 AM on May 13, 2013


Here we go, Sen. Bakk just moved to have HR 1054 (the marriage bill) taken up.
posted by Area Man at 10:14 AM on May 13, 2013


A thing I continue to not understand is how people who say they believe in small government are also a-okay with a government that makes illegal for people - adults! Citizens! - to make a certain kind of contract out of state.

Playing Devil's advocate, one rationale is that the government shouldn't meddle with God's law. God says homosexuality is a sin, so therefore it should also be illegal. Since Christianity is the religion* of the USA, anything against that is just godless liberals oppressing the honest god-fearing folk**, and the government should stay the hell out of it. What's next, man marryin' goats by contract? If they want to get married, they should only be able to do it in a church, under God. Anything else is just state interference in our way of life, allowing them sinners to walk around pretending their 'marriage' is as good as ours.

* Obviously, the USA explicitly has no state religion, christian or otherwise via the 1st amendment. As an outside observer, it often appears that many americans actually interpret the no prohibition of free expression to mean that the Government is duty bound to apply christian rules on everyone - otherwise, Christians are being prevented from exercising their religious rights. i.e. allowing other people to do things prohibited by christian scripture is, in and of itself, bigotry against christians and prevented by the first amendment. 'No establishment of religion' REALLY just means the government can't tell the Church what to do - the government should be subservient to the church, in fact.

** Even more obviously, with 3/4 of the population self identifying as christian, they are not an oppressed minority. But they see their way of life and religious strictures being increasingly ignored or outright denigrated, and they interpret it as being the righteous minority under siege.

TLDR; God is more important than government; ergo goverment trying to stop Christian ethics being law is the government being too large, and oppressing the christians, in contradiction of the constitution and the religion of the founders. It's an emotional argument, not a factual one, obviously.

For clarity, I personally am an atheist ex-christian who fully supports marriage for all consenting adults regardless of gender or lack thereof, should they want it.
posted by ArkhanJG at 10:15 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


a brief recess already?

...and they're back!
posted by elmer benson at 10:15 AM on May 13, 2013


God says homosexuality is a sin

I am unaware that any "God" has ever "said" anything.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:15 AM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


that is a fancy suit...
posted by nadawi at 10:16 AM on May 13, 2013


brief
posted by edgeways at 10:16 AM on May 13, 2013


he seemed wholly unprepared for that part to happen right there.
posted by nadawi at 10:18 AM on May 13, 2013


For those of you watching along, the President of the Senate, Senator Sandy Pappas, is from St. Paul. (I ran her re-election campaign in 2006).

The Senator presenting the bill is Senator Scott Dibble. He's gay and married his partner in California.

In the picture with Sen. Dibble is a woman in the back - Senator Kari Dziedzic, and sitting next to Senator Dibble is Senator Tony Lourey, who arguably has the best mustache in the Minnesota Legislature.
posted by elmer benson at 10:18 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


So Dibble (my State Senator, thankyouverymuch) is talking right now about the language of the bill. One of the changes the house made was to make the language about marriage explicitly say civil marriage. That was the key change that brought over a couple of GOP voters during the house vote (there were 4 Republican yes votes, 2 no votes from the DFL).

This is a good change, IMO, because it gives formality to the fact that marriage as recognized by the state really should be a civil union only, no matter what the gender of the participants.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:19 AM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


That is to say, marriage as a state institution is not religious. To be honest I wish they'd drop the word marriage completely from all civil unions.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:20 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think I lived in Dibble's district (near Lake & Nicollet) for a long time, but I don't remember ever getting to vote for him. I am confused. Did the borders of District 61 change recently?
posted by jiawen at 10:23 AM on May 13, 2013


Yes, the districts have shifted a bit.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:24 AM on May 13, 2013


yeah.. but marriage, the word has so much emotional meaning behind it, that even as a generally good idea that I have sympathy for I fully understand and can see the value of having the word "marriage". And really marriage has changed in the past, it is not, nor has ever been a static thing, so at the end of the day I gotta come down on the side of keeping the word, using 'civil' in front seems just fine as well.
posted by edgeways at 10:25 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


oop, hopefully she got his ok to read that on the floor.
posted by edgeways at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2013


uhh, did she just out that guy?
posted by Think_Long at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2013


Okay, I'm off to the Capitol. Anyone else wanna grab some food truck food and go be part of the joy?
posted by elmer benson at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2013


Fair enough, edgeways. Not that my let's-get-rid-of-the-word-marriage idea could possibly have legs. If you ever want to grind an open discussion on marriage equality to an immediate and uncomfortable halt, say that you aren't just anti-gay marriage but anti-ALL marriage.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am unaware that any "God" has ever "said" anything.

via the Bible, of course. the Bible represents God's words, or that is a common belief. Leviticus, I think, is the bit about homosexuality being a sin, which is part of the Law of Moses (who, of course, God spoke to directly).

It's been a very long time since my bible studies, but a lot of misunderstanding comes from people who don't realise that even in the Bible, Moses Law only applied to the old Israelites, not gentiles - i.e. us. So even if you accept Leviticus at face value - and it's far from clear - it's superceded by the New Testament. And I don't believe Jesus said anything in the Bible about homosexuality at all.

Of course, if you don't accept the Bible as the word of God - and I don't - then it's pretty meaningless, it's just a book. But there's plenty of people that do.
posted by ArkhanJG at 10:27 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Of course, if you don't accept the Bible as the word of God - and I don't - then it's pretty meaningless, it's just a book. But there's plenty of people that do.

Well, sure, but it's very clear in the U.S. Constitution that the Bible is not superior to the word of law.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:28 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


i'm guessing she got his ok with the way he ended his letter. those were my first tears of the day. i hope he's somewhere cheering, surrounded by people who love and accept him.
posted by nadawi at 10:30 AM on May 13, 2013


Senator Limmer, who is speaking now, is one of the most aggressive opponents of this legislation. He was a leader on last year's campaign to amend the constitution to ban gay marriage.

He mentioned that he and Senator Dibble have a cordial relationship. That is, in large part, because Senator Dibble is one of the best human beings on the face of the planet.
posted by elmer benson at 10:30 AM on May 13, 2013


Seriously. Seriously, Limmer? Is this just to waste time? What. Why.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:32 AM on May 13, 2013


So is Limmer that dim, or is he trying to make so sort of point?
posted by edgeways at 10:32 AM on May 13, 2013


I have no idea where he's going with this. It feels like an intentional time waster.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:33 AM on May 13, 2013


I really appreciate the comments from locals here. Thanks. Less appreciative of the tired discussion of fundamentalist "arguments." They're not using logic, we all know that, so let's leave it at that.
posted by mediareport at 10:33 AM on May 13, 2013


Huh. Textbook concern trolling there, Limmer.
posted by COBRA! at 10:34 AM on May 13, 2013


According to Limmer, calling it civil marriage is nullifying all religion? Huh?
posted by dinty_moore at 10:35 AM on May 13, 2013


he seems to be trying to win on a technicality - or inserting a talking point - "they invalidated your marriage!" which isn't true, but will certainly play in some circles.
posted by nadawi at 10:35 AM on May 13, 2013


It's such a non point. Of course there's a difference between civil and religious marriage. It was well refuted just now, so hopefully they can move on.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:36 AM on May 13, 2013


YEAH DICK COHEN HE'S MY MAN!
posted by Think_Long at 10:36 AM on May 13, 2013


Kind of a ham fisted, poor way to go about it... sounds like folks are now just lining up to take him to task and educate his ass.

Lord, I suppose he is grandstanding now eh?
posted by edgeways at 10:37 AM on May 13, 2013


I assume his 'reasoning' is that restricting it to civil marriage removes all the invisible dog whistles that imply marriage is religious. Yep, he just stated so.
posted by jiawen at 10:37 AM on May 13, 2013



I'm not feeling well today so was looking for something to watch.


I've chosen this after finding out here what is going on.


It's making me feel better and putting smile on my face.


Go Minnesota!
posted by Jalliah at 10:38 AM on May 13, 2013


is he going to say florist? oh, there it was, "private business."
posted by nadawi at 10:39 AM on May 13, 2013


Protect them from what? I missed that bit.
posted by Think_Long at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2013


Oh man I look forward to this 'gay marriage class' that will be forced upon all high schoolers.
posted by graventy at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2013


Think_Long: "Protect them from what? I missed that bit"

From being allowed to discriminate.
posted by graventy at 10:40 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Protect them when they are sued for failing to provide service equally to all people.. yeah as grav says.. to discriminate.
posted by edgeways at 10:41 AM on May 13, 2013


protect them from having gay customers or gay students/teachers. i imagine that the old segregation academies are seeing a rise in enrollment.
posted by nadawi at 10:42 AM on May 13, 2013


Protect them from possibly having gay customers, for florists (no florists have gay customers looking for flowers now...). Not sure why students have to be protected from gay marriage?
posted by dinty_moore at 10:42 AM on May 13, 2013


Limmer is one of those dumb guys who thinks he is saying profound things.

The key section of existing Minnesota marriage laws (section 517.01) is already titled "Marriage a Civil Contract" and the key phrase in the existing statute says "marriage, so far as its validity in law is concerned, is a civil contract between a man and a woman." Given that background, using the phrase "civil marriage" elsewhere in Minnesota laws isn't particularly important.

Also, if his concern is about religious institutions, he should look at the exemptions in the statute.

Finally, (1) it is already illegal in Minnesota to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation (which is why the florist example doesn't make sense) and (2) the First Amendment protects peoples' rights to have private opinions.
posted by Area Man at 10:42 AM on May 13, 2013


There are quite a few more people down here than there were on Thursday for the house vote. Probably because it's the final step but also because the weather is way better than Thursday. I'll try to get a picture when I get a chance, but I am also supposed to be working at least somewhat today - not just staring out my window which faces the Capitol lawn. It's not the worst day to work at the Capitol Complex - if you like to see happy people be happy for happy reasons. A few people might not be having such a good day shortly.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 10:42 AM on May 13, 2013


So this will go on all day, right? This is probably the biggest chance a lot of these legislators will ever have for national airtime.
posted by graventy at 10:43 AM on May 13, 2013




Oh and that senator is saying exactly the sort of crap that we heard during the Canadian debate.


Same old, same old.

Hey Senator it's okay man. We have experience with this. It's all good and works out fine. Just buck up and get it over with.
posted by Jalliah at 10:43 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ron Latz has a lot more patience than I do. Kudos for him.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:43 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


if gay marriage is legal you can't really fire a teacher for being gay - so students will be forced to have an openly gay teacher.
posted by nadawi at 10:43 AM on May 13, 2013


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

That's the bible line you're looking for (I think). You'll notice that it really only outlaws male homosexuality. God had no problem with lesbians. This is also the book of the bible that outlaws pork and shellfish.

I've read elsewhere that the Apostle Paul, when writing to the Corinthians basically wrote:

Dear Corinthians,

Just do what Jesus said, ignore the rest.

Love,
Paul

PS: Oh, also don't leave meat on the alter, that's gross, but you can ignore the rest.


Someone with more biblical knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong.
posted by VTX at 10:44 AM on May 13, 2013


Prob the best thing would be to just ignore Limmer and move on.. it's the classic pay attention to me I'm going to waste alllll your time.
posted by edgeways at 10:44 AM on May 13, 2013


You can't fire the teacher in Minnesota for being gay now. You haven't been able to since 1993.
posted by dinty_moore at 10:45 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


This guy thinks the YWCA would want to discriminate? Has he been to a Y recently?
posted by Think_Long at 10:45 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


He was specifically talking about a teacher being forced to curriculum they don't necessarily agree with. Presumably about gays gettin' hitched.

Also lol good luck keeping the gays out of the YMCA dawg.
posted by graventy at 10:46 AM on May 13, 2013


Has he heard the song?
posted by dinty_moore at 10:47 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


What is equal!!??
posted by edgeways at 10:47 AM on May 13, 2013


Limmer just brought up Northwestern College as one of the "unprotected" institutions: here's some students from there
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:49 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I really am liking your Senator Dibble Minnesota. :D
posted by Jalliah at 10:50 AM on May 13, 2013


Did Dibble just call Limmer anti-american?
posted by VTX at 10:50 AM on May 13, 2013


Scott Dibble is terrific in a lot of ways. I'm mostly amazed at his strength and patience at the amount of horrible things he's had to sit through other people saying about him and people just like him - and he's never ever seemed to get upset; they've never been able to provoke a response. I can't imagine it.
posted by nickmark at 10:53 AM on May 13, 2013


Boy, Latz is good. Not that these Limmer-icks are that hard to refute, but he's well spoken and on point.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:53 AM on May 13, 2013


I can't even express how meaningful this is.

I grew up in Minnesota but haven't lived there since I left for college. But I'm always so proud of being from there. It broke my heart that Michele Bachmann has made so much national coverage when Minnesota is so much better than that. (I am proud of saying that we have the longest streak of voting Democrat for president... which is only because we were the ONLY state to vote for Mondale in '84... holla!)

I had a hard time coming out in high school because it was seriously such a foreign thing to be gay in my small town that I thought surely if I wasn't a gym-teacher butch dyke I must not "really" be gay because that's the only picture I had.

I didn't dare to get my hopes up that Minnesota would vote down the amendment to ban same-sex marriage in November, after so many states have passed it, even liberal states, even after so many articles about how public opinion was turning.

I wrote a letter to the editor in my small town newspaper urging people to vote against that amendment. That letter outed me to the whole town.

I stayed up all night and cried when I realized that not just Minnesota, but my home county, voted against banning gay marriage in the Constitution.

Even after that, even with promises from the Minnesota DFL leadership, I had little hope that they could even bring a viable gay marriage bill to the floor this year.

I'm getting married in New York in a few months. I never, ever dared to even hope it would be possible to get married in my home state within this year.

We've made too many plans to cancel it all now...

But if this passes, I could walk into my small-town courthouse and get married.

That's amazing.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:53 AM on May 13, 2013 [17 favorites]


Dibble is the business, I was so happy to vote for him.
posted by kavasa at 10:53 AM on May 13, 2013


dinty_moore: "You can't fire the teacher in Minnesota for being gay now. You haven't been able to since 1993."

Though of course you can make a hostile work environment that has just enough plausible deniability to avoid proof of discrimination, and then fire the teacher when they can't function well under the pressure. A lot of GLBT people I know have had to deal with those kinds of situations. (Sorry for the derail; it just peeves me that people think antidiscrimination laws somehow solve the problem once and for all.)
posted by jiawen at 10:54 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Who needs religious protection here? The clerks who have to file the paperwork in the courthouse? Justices of the Peace? Presumably preachers are allowed to discriminate already.
posted by graventy at 10:56 AM on May 13, 2013


the fucking gall of quoting do unto others as part of your argument to deny marriage equality...it's like he can't even hear himself.
posted by nadawi at 10:57 AM on May 13, 2013



Errr, okay this guy is making me feeling nauseous.

Nice that he's decided to lump all Christians together as if they believe the same thing.
posted by Jalliah at 10:58 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Clever move on Cohen's part with the comparison to Jewish marriage. Limmer seems to have shifted his position again though, which isn't surprising considering his tenuous grasp of the argument.

Gazelka's a little more stronger than Limmer, but still making bland assertions rather than real premises. (Also, Senator Gazelka, we've already decided that the formalist interpretation of scripture you're advocating is unsustainable since most Protestant Christians sure do love their cheeseburger.)

VTX: Paul is weird. Galatians has him affirming his own mystic I-Thou experience above the apostles who were actually there for the whole she-bang. In Romans, he's rather forbidding of homosexuality in 1:26 to the end of chapter one. Then in Corinthians...more or less, it's back to honoring Jesus, though he's very firm on trying to separate Jewish law from Christian belief (which makes the justification of forbidding homosexuality somewhat different). Most of Paul's justification comes back to his mystic revelation rather than actually -speaking- to the apostles who were there.
posted by donquixote at 10:58 AM on May 13, 2013


The very thin argument is that they think that if the civil law on marriage is in conflict with their beliefs they can't perform their own marriage in their church.
posted by mcstayinskool at 10:58 AM on May 13, 2013


Who needs religious protection here? the businesssssssssssss man. Who else?
posted by edgeways at 10:59 AM on May 13, 2013


"...deeply held religious beliefs..." will this motherfucker shut up already?
posted by Epenthesis at 11:01 AM on May 13, 2013


FLORIST!
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:01 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]




The florist!
posted by Jalliah at 11:01 AM on May 13, 2013


Someone should ask Gazelka (stalking horse for Limmer) if he would vote for the marriage bill if this amendment went through?

This really is an ok-to-discriminate amendment.

(hey THE FLORIST! drink!)
posted by edgeways at 11:01 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


there it is! florist.

who wants gay-hating flowers??
posted by nadawi at 11:02 AM on May 13, 2013


thank GOD someone is FINALLY standing up for the bigoted florist
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:02 AM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


explicit florist reference

sigh

ugh
posted by kavasa at 11:02 AM on May 13, 2013


Man, if I were part of a liberal religious institution, I'd be so angry right now about all this talk about 'religious' people are against same-sex marriage.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:02 AM on May 13, 2013


Is there a bingo card for today's debate?
posted by Area Man at 11:03 AM on May 13, 2013


Because when I think about groups that really, really hate gay people, florists come to mind.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:03 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Bingo.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:04 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


ha.. Petersen (R) is calling out Limmer/Gazelka
posted by edgeways at 11:04 AM on May 13, 2013


The GOP senator talking right now is a co-sponsor of this bill.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:04 AM on May 13, 2013


I guess I want to ask Gazelka, "What is it exactly that justifies the protection of deeply held religious beliefs from disagreement?" We're not even talking about invalidation or persecution or oppression. Mere disagreement...

As part of the liberal theistic community, these people are fucking shameful in their argumentation so far.
posted by donquixote at 11:05 AM on May 13, 2013


For non MN folks: Sen. Branden Petersen (R) has publicly supported gay marriage, and was the first Republican to do so.
posted by nickmark at 11:05 AM on May 13, 2013


No florist square?
posted by Area Man at 11:05 AM on May 13, 2013


Interview with Petersen on his support of the bill
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:06 AM on May 13, 2013


Man, if I were part of a liberal religious institution, I'd be so angry right now about all this talk about 'religious' people are against same-sex marriage.

I'm not really religious anymore but my parents and sister is. I'm irked for them. The church I grew up in and my sister now works in not only was a supporter of equal marriage up here from the very beginning it lives and breathes what it preaches. The current Minister who has been there for around 12 years is a women, married to another women and they have kids. I'd say that all the Christians who attend that church aren't daily struggling with conflicting deeply held religious beliefs.
posted by Jalliah at 11:06 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Area Man: "Is there a bingo card for today's debate?"

So much the same arguments as the House debate. Seriously, almost verbatim the same arguments. Arrrguments.
posted by jiawen at 11:07 AM on May 13, 2013


(that Bingo card was left over from the House session)
posted by edgeways at 11:07 AM on May 13, 2013


This attempt to gut the MN Human Rights Act is new, and ugly.
posted by Area Man at 11:09 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, I know; it just works so well for the Senate debate, too. The same tired arguments are getting trotted out again.
posted by jiawen at 11:10 AM on May 13, 2013


Can I clone Dibble and put him in the Michigan Senate? We need someone like this guy.
posted by donquixote at 11:11 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think what the amendment is really about is the non-severability clause. If Amended and passed and found unconstitutional the whole thing would be unconstitutional. I suspect Limmer et al know this amendment is unconstitutional and this is just a try and to get the whole thing ruled unconstitutional based on just this little bit of language.
posted by edgeways at 11:11 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]



The cheering in the background is awesome.
posted by Jalliah at 11:12 AM on May 13, 2013


there it is.. good pick up Dibble.
posted by edgeways at 11:12 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Good call on that point, edgeways.
posted by jillithd at 11:12 AM on May 13, 2013


ohhhh that was an amazing take down.
posted by nadawi at 11:13 AM on May 13, 2013


That is fucking dirty and gross lawmaking. Fuck you Limmer.
posted by graventy at 11:14 AM on May 13, 2013


Fuck you Limmer.. you know what you are doing.
posted by edgeways at 11:15 AM on May 13, 2013


"Isn't there room in our statutes for discrimination?"
posted by jiawen at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013


"i can't put myself in that place." ok calling it now, within the next two years that man will be found having a wide stance...
posted by nadawi at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


From a political point of view I think this issue is absolutely terrifying to the GOP. If they go with their base they are ignoring the undeniable demographic shift in opinion. If they go with the demographics they anger the base.

But of course this is the whole they dug themselves by putting the anti-gay marriage amendment on the ballot last November (along with the Voter ID one, both of which failed). It's those actions that helped propel all of what we're seeing now forward, so quickly.

Some suggestions for future GOP-sponsored ballot initiatives:
Some suggestions:
Erecting a wall between North and South Minneapolis to keep out “the criminal element”
Declaring Climate Change legally defined as “Just a little heat wave then, nothing to worry about”
Making background checks for firearms unconstitutional
Replacing MLK Day with Michelle Bachmann Day

I feel that any or all of these should be on the next ballot, ensuring DFL dominance for the next few decades.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


LIMMER, YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PERSECUTED. YOU ARE A WHITE MALE CHRISTIAN.
posted by donquixote at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


OH GOD THOSE POOR CHRISTIAN MAJORITY BEING PERSECUTED FOR THEIR FAITH. I just.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Gazelka's amendment? YOUR amendment. It was filed under YOUR name ding dong
posted by edgeways at 11:16 AM on May 13, 2013


I think what the amendment is really about is the non-disability clause. If Amended and passed and found unconstitutional the whole thing would be unconstitutional. I suspect Limmer et al know this amendment is unconstitutional and this is just a try and to get the whole thing ruled unconstitutional based on just this little bit of language.

Which is pretty remarkable in itself--they're so insistent on discriminating that they'd nullify a duly enacted law and throw newlywed gay couples into legal limbo.

I'm heartened that Petersen is so supportive; I'd otherwise be tempted to conclude that today's Republicans are just slime.
posted by Epenthesis at 11:17 AM on May 13, 2013


*collective hush while Dibble speaks*
posted by jiawen at 11:21 AM on May 13, 2013


Is it unfortunate that solemnize and sodomize sound so much like each other?
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:23 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"This is one of the most discriminatory things I have seen in a long time." Wow.
posted by jillithd at 11:27 AM on May 13, 2013


haha, i had a feeling that "i'm not a lawyer" was going to come back and bite him.
posted by nadawi at 11:27 AM on May 13, 2013


ha.. "I AM a lawyer" Gazelka smackdown
posted by edgeways at 11:28 AM on May 13, 2013


Latz is laying down the law.

Wait...
posted by donquixote at 11:29 AM on May 13, 2013


Minnesota Human Rights Act, as it stands right now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:29 AM on May 13, 2013


So much effort being put forth discussing an amendment that has 0.000% chance of passing.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:29 AM on May 13, 2013


That's a good point Goodwin made about not being able to do anything about an employee refusing service a same-sex marriage with the proposed amendment.
posted by VTX at 11:29 AM on May 13, 2013


Is it common for amendments like this to depend on the stupidity of your fellow senators to pass?
posted by graventy at 11:30 AM on May 13, 2013


I think the bill as it passed the House doesn't explicitly say that MN would recognize same-sex marriages from other states. Does anyone know if that's because some other part of our law already says we recognize other states' marriages?
posted by secretseasons at 11:31 AM on May 13, 2013


Florists again. Drink!
posted by VTX at 11:31 AM on May 13, 2013



Won't somebody think of the florists?
posted by Jalliah at 11:31 AM on May 13, 2013


Bachmann Threatens to Leave Minnesota Over Marriage Equality (the daily Currant is a parody site, FYI)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:31 AM on May 13, 2013


I want to make a Chris Crocker-style video saying "LEAVE FLORISTS ALONE!"
posted by donquixote at 11:31 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is it common for amendments like this to depend on the stupidity of your fellow senators to pass?

There is an absolutely fascinating This American Life story about how Oklahoma "accidentally" got statewide funding for pre-K education (the only one in the country) passed. So, sometimes, yes.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:32 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


OMG that Bachmann article. How is this an elected official??
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:33 AM on May 13, 2013


Ah yes, parody. Got me again.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2013


Limmer is saying that TOWN CLERKS in NY had to quit their jobs because they didn't want to issue same-sex marriage licenses. Um, they were doing a GOVERNMENT JOB. PUBLIC. YES, they need to quit, then.
posted by jillithd at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


Oh.. for the love of Christ give it a rest already Limmer.
posted by edgeways at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


roomthreeseventeen: "Bachmann Threatens to Leave Minnesota Over Marriage Equality"

Is this the conservative equivalent of "IF BUSH WINS, I'M MOVING TO CANADA!"?
posted by zarq at 11:34 AM on May 13, 2013


You're not Minnesota Nice Limmer
posted by edgeways at 11:36 AM on May 13, 2013


If these people refused service because their religion forbade interracial marriage, this would be a much shorter debate.
posted by VTX at 11:36 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


How would anyone tell if Bachmann left? She's already absentee a huge percent of the time.
posted by jiawen at 11:38 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I hope people realize that the Bachmann article was satire.
posted by zixyer at 11:39 AM on May 13, 2013


These arguments are so vacant. There are kosher and halal and hindu and spirtiually-motivated vegetarian people that live quite nicely in civil societies that voraciously eat bacon. This does not violate their religious liberty.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:39 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


FLORISTS!
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:40 AM on May 13, 2013


I bet they have backup stupid-as-fuck amendments for when this one gets voted down. We'll be here all day.
posted by graventy at 11:40 AM on May 13, 2013



FFS a wedding photographer can just say no, I'm already busy that day if it's that much of an issue for them. You don't have to take job just because someone calls you.
posted by Jalliah at 11:40 AM on May 13, 2013


You know, the thing is, Bachmann IS parody.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:40 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I have a deeply held religious belief that I am really tired of hearing about these people's deeply held religious beliefs.
posted by jillithd at 11:41 AM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


All that hot air and it fails anyways
posted by edgeways at 11:41 AM on May 13, 2013


Whew. For a second there I thought that was the bill itself.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:42 AM on May 13, 2013


and... A10 is over.
posted by jiawen at 11:42 AM on May 13, 2013


"Deeply held religious beliefs" must have tested well. They insist on using that exact phrasing every single time.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:43 AM on May 13, 2013


You can hear the cheers through the doors.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:43 AM on May 13, 2013


Bachmann Threatens to Leave Minnesota Over Marriage Equality
YES! YES! YE...

(the daily Currant is a parody site, FYI)
...DAMMIT!
posted by Drastic at 11:43 AM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Religious exemptions amendment fails 41-26
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:43 AM on May 13, 2013


graventy: "I bet they have backup stupid-as-fuck amendments for when this one gets voted down. We'll be here all day"

Yyyyyyyyep!
posted by graventy at 11:43 AM on May 13, 2013


I bet they have backup stupid-as-fuck amendments for when this one gets voted down. We'll be here all day.

I think you called it.
posted by VTX at 11:44 AM on May 13, 2013


"deeply held religious beliefs" tested well. "child creators" not so much.
posted by mcstayinskool at 11:44 AM on May 13, 2013


Graventy called it...

And here we go with A51...based on gendered language, of course. Of course. Because we are being entirely predictable.
posted by donquixote at 11:45 AM on May 13, 2013


MOMMIES and DADDIES
posted by edgeways at 11:45 AM on May 13, 2013


"forever"?
posted by nadawi at 11:47 AM on May 13, 2013


Forever? Really?
posted by donquixote at 11:47 AM on May 13, 2013


Well I guess I'm no longer a husband or father. But what about my deeply held religious beliefs?! This is dumber than the last one, if that's possible.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 11:47 AM on May 13, 2013


Again.. ask Westrom if he'd vote for the bill if the amendment passed.
posted by edgeways at 11:47 AM on May 13, 2013


Ooh, is this the amendment where we get to "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" on the bingo card?
posted by jillithd at 11:47 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I love their pretend obliviousness. "I just don't get why my discriminatory amendment might upset anyone!"
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:48 AM on May 13, 2013


I don't keep up with our State Government proceedings live very often. Is Dibble usually this well prepared?

I can't tell if he is that smart that he has the counter-arguments off the top of his head right away and is always so well spoken, if is prepared everything ahead of time and knew what he wanted to say on any given issue, and if he is always that way or if really stepped up his game for this bill.
posted by VTX at 11:49 AM on May 13, 2013



Oh no in the future only same sex married people can be mother, fathers, husband and wives.
posted by Jalliah at 11:50 AM on May 13, 2013


I would assume that because this is his bill and a personal project of his that he has probably stepped up his game for it. I don't know, though.
posted by graventy at 11:50 AM on May 13, 2013


And another amendment bites the dust.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


failed.. closer tho
posted by edgeways at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


i honestly thought that one would pass. phew. moving right along...
posted by nadawi at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


I bet he's heard a lot of these arguments before.
posted by jiawen at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


I am enjoying watching these nonsensical amendments being voted down.
posted by mefireader at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


Nienow, quit using intentionalist justifications for your discrimination. It doesn't disguise your bigotry. Honest.

Looks like A51 is down. No further amendments? Here we go with third reading!
posted by donquixote at 11:51 AM on May 13, 2013


no further amendments!!
posted by nadawi at 11:52 AM on May 13, 2013


3rd reading.. lets go lets go
posted by edgeways at 11:52 AM on May 13, 2013


Obligatory bow-ties are cool post.
posted by donquixote at 11:52 AM on May 13, 2013


Wow, no more derailing amendments?
posted by jiawen at 11:52 AM on May 13, 2013


Now it's time for impassioned speeches about how I'm going to vote my heart blah blah blah just vote already.
posted by graventy at 11:55 AM on May 13, 2013


Thank you, everyone. Am unable to watch what's happening while I'm at work today, and it's been nice to be able to follow along.
posted by zarq at 11:55 AM on May 13, 2013


Now it's time for impassioned speeches about how I'm going to vote my heart blah blah blah just vote already.

Yeah, it's not like anyone's changing their vote now.
posted by hoyland at 11:56 AM on May 13, 2013


Man, if I were part of a liberal religious institution, I'd be so angry right now about all this talk about 'religious' people are against same-sex marriage.

Looks like John Marty would have your back.
posted by VTX at 11:58 AM on May 13, 2013


Now it's time for impassioned speeches about how I'm going to vote my heart blah blah blah just vote already.

Yeah, it's not like anyone's changing their vote now.


I sincerely think John Marty wanted to show off his awesome bow-tie. But yeah, the pathos argument has already been established and now it seems like we're showboating.
posted by donquixote at 11:59 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


yeah, this is the campaign contributions version of the nascar hat dance. these arguments are for show at this point. but, i love hearing about happy gay couples and watching bigots sweat, so it's not a bad way to spend an afternoon.
posted by nadawi at 11:59 AM on May 13, 2013


"Some people oppose this so human rights should not make progress"

"If it's controversial, it's wrong"

"Human rights require majority consent"
posted by jiawen at 11:59 AM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


We knooooow this Nelson. We just went through this. where you asleep or in the loo? oh lord
posted by edgeways at 12:00 PM on May 13, 2013


fantastic bowtie, pocket square, and a pin of some sort. well done!
posted by nadawi at 12:02 PM on May 13, 2013


Sigh. I was in the middle of writing a comment about how, sure, all these speeches are just theater, but representation is one of those parts of life where the theater actually matters.

And then Senator Nelson had to say that she was "proud to be their senator... in the Senate." That's a keen observational eye there, Carla.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:02 PM on May 13, 2013



I like this version of 'won't someone think of the children' much better.
posted by Jalliah at 12:03 PM on May 13, 2013


So Nelson is a no. That's too bad. I'm hoping for at least one more republican vote.
posted by Area Man at 12:03 PM on May 13, 2013


edgeways, I feel like some of the Republicans voting against the bill feel like they need to make a statement so they can claim they aren't being bigots here, they're concerned about freedoms. "I personally don't agree with gay marriage, but this particular bill would have endangered" blah blah. Nonsense and flimflam.
posted by graventy at 12:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Some people oppose this so human rights should not make progress"

"If it's controversial, it's wrong"

"Human rights require majority consent"


I think this pretty much sums up the major flaws of current political discourse about human rights.
posted by donquixote at 12:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Loving vs Va reference
posted by edgeways at 12:04 PM on May 13, 2013


Loving vs Va reference

I at least believe that this guy means it.
posted by hoyland at 12:05 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh man, I am so excited that this is happening. I'm glad that this thread exists...I'm at work until 8pm, so I'll just get my updates here. Thanks Metafilter, and Yay Minnesota!
posted by Elly Vortex at 12:05 PM on May 13, 2013


Concern troll eh?
posted by edgeways at 12:06 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Good Loving vs. VA reference.

Also...when did Ron Swanson become a Senator? (side-eyes Ingebrigtsen)
posted by donquixote at 12:07 PM on May 13, 2013


"Oh noes! I might have to explain to my grandkids that gay people exist?"

What if your 'recently born' grandchild is gay?
posted by hoyland at 12:07 PM on May 13, 2013


NO, WE HAVEN'T RECOGNIZED THAT FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, YOU ETHNOCENTRIC MORON. (/ragequit)
posted by donquixote at 12:08 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]



Oh and now back to a R with a typical, "won't someone think of the children' blurg.


What about the confusion and questions when they come home from school? How can I answer them....

Bingo!
posted by Jalliah at 12:08 PM on May 13, 2013


It'll be ok Ingebrigtsen .. it'll be ok.
posted by edgeways at 12:09 PM on May 13, 2013


Please vote against this bill because I don't like talking to my children.
posted by zixyer at 12:09 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Let 'im sputter. These arguments are so transparently empty that they aren't doing their side a bit of good, either today or in the long run.
posted by Epenthesis at 12:10 PM on May 13, 2013


Please vote against this bill because I don't like talking to my children.

I seriously heard this in Ron Swanson's voice.
posted by donquixote at 12:10 PM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


NO, WE HAVEN'T RECOGNIZED THAT FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, YOU ETHNOCENTRIC MORON. (/ragequit)


Annoying isn't it. lol
posted by Jalliah at 12:10 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


My friends can't marry because you are confused?
posted by Area Man at 12:10 PM on May 13, 2013


"Certainly all of us have family members, as I do."

If this is the level of comment, can we just vote already?
posted by hoyland at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


So far we've got
Marty, DFL - I know gay people and want them to have rights -- FOR
Nelson, R - I just feel like this bill is very flawed and will harm religious rights -- AGAINST
Hayden, DFL - This is as important as Loving v Virginia and as a black man married to a white woman I want to be on the side of right -- FOR
Ingebritsen, R - I don't want to have to talk to my grandkids about gays, also, my constituents are all bigots -- AGAINST
Hoffman, DFL -- short, sweet FOR
Kiffmeyer, R -- bill flawed just like that amendment was you guys srsly -- AGAINST
posted by graventy at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Kiffmeyer "I have family"
posted by edgeways at 12:11 PM on May 13, 2013


"It's okay to vote NO because nothing would change."

Right. And nothing did change. And then it did. It's two separate laws!
posted by Think_Long at 12:12 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


My livestream just broke, maybe it's time for me to do work. In the meanwhile, I've managed to get my coworker to name the his bar trivia's team ' the homophobic florist contingency' (which is also the name of a lost Middleman episode)
posted by dinty_moore at 12:12 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Literally nobody ever said "Vote no, nothing will change." The only reference to it is from Minnesota Republicans.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:13 PM on May 13, 2013


All these people who talk about "traditional marriage" need to listen to Louisa Wall's speech at the passage of same-sex marriage in New Zealand. GLBT people have been around as long as there have been people, and marriage has always been diverse.
posted by jiawen at 12:13 PM on May 13, 2013


One penis one vagina ONLY!
posted by edgeways at 12:13 PM on May 13, 2013


Kiffmeyer is horrible.

She spent her career trying to change voting procedures to make it harder to vote.
posted by Area Man at 12:15 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yeah I seriously can't believe that these people aren't ashamed to open their mouths and say this sort of stuff, the same nonsensical bigoted non-arguments that obviously have no basis in reality.
posted by kavasa at 12:15 PM on May 13, 2013


Literally nobody ever said "Vote no, nothing will change." The only reference to it is from Minnesota Republicans.

Actually, their referring to a piece in the Vote No calling script - "If you had the chance today, would you vote yes and limit the freedom to marry, or vote No and keep everything the way it is."

We said that because it was true. The day after the vote, nothing changed. Except it was on all of our minds. And we had a massive email list of supporters. And a progressive legislature.
posted by Think_Long at 12:15 PM on May 13, 2013


and their capacity for having children

haha This is only fun to watch because the outcome is virtually assured.
posted by graventy at 12:15 PM on May 13, 2013


One penis one vagina ONLY!

But how do we choose which one?

No one has made that joke yet today have they?
posted by VTX at 12:15 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh.. hey i know this guy.. he's my Senator as well
posted by edgeways at 12:17 PM on May 13, 2013


Duluthian sounds like a nifty sci-fi race.
posted by donquixote at 12:17 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Actually, their referring to a piece in the Vote No calling script - "If you had the chance today, would you vote yes and limit the freedom to marry, or vote No and keep everything the way it is."

So they are paraphrasing a calling script that essentially wanted to make it clear that voting no on the amendment will maintain the status quo as being a promise that nothing will ever change?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:17 PM on May 13, 2013


I have to board a plane soon. I wonder if I will be able to stream with the inboard WiFi.
posted by Area Man at 12:17 PM on May 13, 2013


Duluthian sounds like a nifty sci-fi race.

We are
posted by edgeways at 12:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]



My Nephew, who grew up under same sex marriage being law did come home from school one day with questions. He was eight at the time.

'Mom, I like two girls. I'm not sure which one I want to marry. '

' Well you're too young to worry about that right now. When you're older you'll find someone you love and you can marry them.'

'Yeah. Okay'

'Hey Mom, what if I end up loving a boy? '
'
Well you could marry them too. In Canada you're allowed to marry whoever you love.'

'Okay, that's cool. But I think I will only like girls. '

And off he went to watch tv.
posted by Jalliah at 12:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [13 favorites]


Oh, god, I mean I strongly suspect this guy is agreeing with me, but the Declaration of Independence has to be a bingo square of some kind.
posted by hoyland at 12:18 PM on May 13, 2013


So they are paraphrasing a calling script that essentially wanted to make it clear that voting no on the amendment will maintain the status quo as being a promise that nothing will ever change?

Didn't you hear? THEY WERE BETRAYED
posted by Think_Long at 12:18 PM on May 13, 2013


Points for quoting John Locke, Reinert. (logs it in philosopher's notebook)
posted by donquixote at 12:18 PM on May 13, 2013


(yeah he is a yes vote btw)
posted by edgeways at 12:20 PM on May 13, 2013


Simone is a black (very) disable lady... Reinert has exhibited a heck of a lot of love for her via facebook et al.
posted by edgeways at 12:22 PM on May 13, 2013


"I assume I'll get used to you" is a great quote from (the movie) Lincoln.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:23 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Reinert was getting so quavery that I half thought he was going to come out right there.
posted by Epenthesis at 12:25 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


That was like three good speeches, but I could have done with just one.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:25 PM on May 13, 2013


Oh, god, I mean I strongly suspect this guy is agreeing with me, but the Declaration of Independence has to be a bingo square of some kind.

Don't paraphrase the Declaration of Independence!
posted by cabingirl at 12:26 PM on May 13, 2013


Eligible senator. Take note singles.
posted by Area Man at 12:26 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yea, but in Duluth.
posted by cabingirl at 12:27 PM on May 13, 2013


This guy has nearly just wandered into Clause Four of the Labour Party constitution.
posted by hoyland at 12:27 PM on May 13, 2013


Yea, but in Duluth.

lot of good beer, and you can get to work in 15 minutes. yeah winters are long, but summer beat the hell out of a Twin Cities summer any year. add in the music density and WIN.
posted by edgeways at 12:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Westrom is talking again. I know it's bad form, but I just really want to take a bathroom break.
posted by donquixote at 12:31 PM on May 13, 2013


Everyone I've ever met who went to the University of Duluth had either gotten straight A's or drank too much and flunked out.
posted by VTX at 12:31 PM on May 13, 2013


It's the MOMMIES and DADDIES fella
posted by edgeways at 12:31 PM on May 13, 2013


Ok..but..but...hills?

Duluth is pretty cool.
posted by cabingirl at 12:31 PM on May 13, 2013



Everyone I've ever met who went to the University of Duluth had either gotten straight A's or drank too much and flunked out.

Sounds about right.
posted by edgeways at 12:32 PM on May 13, 2013


Go home Westrom you're dunk on bigotry.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:32 PM on May 13, 2013


Westrom is talking again. I know it's bad form, but I just really want to take a bathroom break.

It's also bad form to remark on his physical characteristics but OH GOD THE GOOGLY EYES
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:33 PM on May 13, 2013


I guess his excuse for voting against it is his amendment was shot down. Not a homophobe I swear! Just bitter.
posted by graventy at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2013


WE DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE THE FRENCH, DO WE? WHO CARES THAT OUR STATE MOTTO IS FRENCH! I'd like some ketchup with my Freedom Fries, thank you.
posted by jillithd at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


donquixote: "Westrom is talking again. I know it's bad form, but I just really want to take a bathroom break."

I just got back from one.
posted by jiawen at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2013


... that doesn't sound all that scary, Westrom. I mean, moms and dads still will exist.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2013



What the heck is this guy on?
posted by Jalliah at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here comes the irrational French hate. Because we really are a trope.
posted by donquixote at 12:35 PM on May 13, 2013


stupidity?
posted by edgeways at 12:35 PM on May 13, 2013


The almost Christopher Walken like delivery is what's making me get all oogie.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:35 PM on May 13, 2013


He might very well be drunk. He's got a good sway going now.
posted by graventy at 12:35 PM on May 13, 2013


DO YOU REMEMBER ALL THE WAY BACK 16 YEARS AGO HOW CAN WE BETRAYED THAT OLD TRADITION?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:35 PM on May 13, 2013


Haha yes animals baby
posted by graventy at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Westrom is Blind which is why is eyes are screwy (at least I hope that's why). I had to google it because it was bugging me too.
posted by VTX at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


AND THERE IT IS, THE PIB ARGUMENT EVERYBODY! (confetti of sadness)
posted by donquixote at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


oooh implied incest argument
posted by edgeways at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


...AND IT'S THE TURTLEFUCKING!!!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Slippery slope! Bingo!
posted by Epenthesis at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Oh, hell naw, he just went the full Santorum.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Well, at least he didn't invoke bestiality out loud.
posted by jiawen at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013



Ooo is the slipery slope this could lead to people marrying their dogs on the bingo card?
posted by Jalliah at 12:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Westrom is Blind which is why is eyes are screwy

Yep, I was definitely right thinking it was in bad form.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is there a list of speakers anywhere? Should I expect to get anything done today?
posted by dinty_moore at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2013


"The Divine Tension"

yeah, no.
posted by Think_Long at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


6? Oh shoot me now
posted by edgeways at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2013


Jalliah - yes, it is! Well, copulating with any animal (nonhuman)
posted by dinty_moore at 12:37 PM on May 13, 2013


Yep, I was definitely right thinking it was in bad form.

Well now I feel bad but he's still a homophobe.
posted by graventy at 12:39 PM on May 13, 2013


Whoa there, Senator Hall. Just because you publicly acknowledge the rule is there does not justify you breaking it. Also, read some fucking John Corvino.
posted by donquixote at 12:39 PM on May 13, 2013


"When has disagreeing become a personal attack?" I don't know, ask Limmer, he spent a half hour droning on about it.
posted by donquixote at 12:40 PM on May 13, 2013


The "marriage is about procreation argument" followed by "this bill jeopardizes monogamy"?

Those seem contradictory.
posted by VTX at 12:40 PM on May 13, 2013


Aaaaaand there's the polygamy fear
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:40 PM on May 13, 2013


"When did trying to deny someone their rights become an attack?"
posted by jiawen at 12:40 PM on May 13, 2013



Ah and now another a penis has to go only into a vagina so the childs will be taken care of and so society won't fall argument.

Oh and this will kill our FREEDOMS because uh...polygamy! Or something
posted by Jalliah at 12:41 PM on May 13, 2013


"Even to be persecuted for"

Or for fuck's sake.
posted by Think_Long at 12:41 PM on May 13, 2013


He does know that there are plenty of religious traditions that allow more than one person to be married? So you can't say that you would be changing the definition of marriage.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:41 PM on May 13, 2013


The thing about a compass (even a moral one) is that the needle can turn. Maybe north is different on my moral compass. No, not maybe.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 12:41 PM on May 13, 2013


Man this guy has a full three or more pages of hateful screed to still read, I'm taking a break.
posted by graventy at 12:41 PM on May 13, 2013


This just became a tent revival meeting.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:42 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Can we just stop with the whole white male Christian being persecuted thing? It's just not the case. Really, guys.

...I'm fearful of where this argument is going with the whole projects story.
posted by donquixote at 12:42 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


JEEESUS
posted by edgeways at 12:42 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wish I could stand to listen, but I keep alternating between rage and sleepiness.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:42 PM on May 13, 2013


THE CHILDREN! (and the florists)
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:43 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]



This guy is just spewing out buzzwords and whistle blowing phrases. I'm actually having a hard time following him.
posted by Jalliah at 12:43 PM on May 13, 2013


Polygamous turtle marriages for everyone! MANDATORY!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I can't quite believe what I'm hearing here. Where was the relevance of that "my childhood and Jesus" derail??? It's all a rambling mess.
posted by tardigrade at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


The question is, are gay marriages good for children?

Yep! There is such a thing as Google, senator.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2013


Atheists never get married.
posted by dinty_moore at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2013


This guy is just spewing out buzzwords and whistle blowing phrases. I'm actually having a hard time following him.

It's okay, incoherence does that.
posted by donquixote at 12:44 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


THE CHILDREN OF THE FLORISTS!
posted by jillithd at 12:45 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


The amazing thing is that they still think this shit is persuasive. Have they not noticed that they're starting to lose, and at a rapid pace?
posted by Epenthesis at 12:45 PM on May 13, 2013


Holy crap this guy is making Westrom look sane.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:45 PM on May 13, 2013


... Hall's speech is deeply weird.
posted by kyrademon at 12:45 PM on May 13, 2013



Yep its easy for me. Thanks for asking
posted by Jalliah at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


This fellow is kinda full of bullshit
posted by edgeways at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


"Forcing others to give you your rights can never end well,"

Such a well-informed perspective!
posted by Think_Long at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


Is this guy part of the bizarre Bachmann cult?
posted by donquixote at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


"Most people know this is not right."

Same-Sex Marriage Support Solidifies Above 50% in U.S.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Civil disaster in Europe!!
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


It's some really emphatic incoherence too.
posted by VTX at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


Also, gay marriage is good for your children if your children are, you know, gay.
posted by nakedmolerats at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


My personal favorite was when Senator Al Franken disputed that "gay parents aren't good for children" hogwash.
posted by jillithd at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013


This guy is utterly wackadoodle.
posted by clever sheep at 12:46 PM on May 13, 2013



lmao.

Do you really want what europe has they on the brink of civil disaster?


wtf?
posted by Jalliah at 12:47 PM on May 13, 2013


Europe is on the verge of civil disaster???
posted by tardigrade at 12:47 PM on May 13, 2013


(waves fingers menacingly) "CONFUSE CHILDREENNNNNN"
posted by donquixote at 12:47 PM on May 13, 2013


Is he actually threatening riots by homophobes?
posted by zombieflanders at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013


I do like the phrase "Confuse children."

You know what else confuses children? Vacuum cleaners.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


I think "civil disaster" is somehow code for MOOOOOOOOOOSLIIIIIIIMS! SHARIAH LAW FORCING GAYNESS ON EVERYONE!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013


Man I did *NOT* know that Minnesota children were so fucking stupid as to be completely mindblown by the idea of gay marriage.
posted by graventy at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013


OMG Dan Hall, I will almost vote for anything that will get you to shut up. I've thought he was building to the end about five times now.
posted by VTX at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013


Wow. He's beyond being unhelpful; this is actually doing damage to the anti side.
posted by Epenthesis at 12:48 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"May God Help Us..." Yes. May God help us escape you.
posted by donquixote at 12:49 PM on May 13, 2013



I think that guy covered most of the bingo card and then some.
posted by Jalliah at 12:50 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Does this guy note down the name of every constituent he speaks to?
posted by hoyland at 12:52 PM on May 13, 2013


"... I entered the on-ramp to the interstate of learning."
That's the best line.
posted by jillithd at 12:52 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Curiously, Hall (Burnsville) and Carlson (Eagan) represent districts about 10 miles apart geographically, though about 50 light years in ideology.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:53 PM on May 13, 2013


"... I entered the on-ramp to the interstate of learning."
That's the best line.


It's such a PBS-tastic line, I love it.
posted by donquixote at 12:53 PM on May 13, 2013


"...but because I'm Minnesotan I didn't know how to merge."
posted by misterpatrick at 12:54 PM on May 13, 2013 [12 favorites]



"Gays it's not natural, procreation" argument,
posted by Jalliah at 12:54 PM on May 13, 2013


Here come the crocodile tears from Benson.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:54 PM on May 13, 2013


Benson's speech already has an end-in-tears-what-about-the-children feel to it.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:54 PM on May 13, 2013


"We are all the unique products of one man and one woman."

Not for long!
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:54 PM on May 13, 2013


marriage was written in our nature... no it wasn't doink
posted by edgeways at 12:55 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


NO. IT WASN'T WRITTEN IN OUR NATURE, DAMN IT. MARRIAGE IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION. SOCIAL. CONSTRUCTION. (vomits rage all over keyboard)
posted by donquixote at 12:55 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I hope every bill is like this.

"I didn't know much about Vikings. But back in 1978 when I moved into Burnsville I met my first Viking. His name was Fred Cox, and he was a kicker. Since then I have met many more Vikings and had some join my family. I feel strongly that Vikings need to be treated fairly. Anyway that's why I'm voting FOR a new stadium."
posted by graventy at 12:55 PM on May 13, 2013 [11 favorites]


Is there a list of who's going to speak? I need to go home, but I don't want to miss my Senator speaking. (I think that was him sitting behind Carlson.)
posted by jiawen at 12:56 PM on May 13, 2013


Wow, didn't know that Edina had liberal legislators.
posted by jiawen at 12:57 PM on May 13, 2013


Edina is more demographically mixed than you might guess. You have to go out to the full outer ring suburbs now to be reliably red. That's where the Cheney fundraisers are held.

Melisa Franzen was raised in Puerto Rico if you were wondering if she was oddly affecting her Minnesota accent. She gave a nice speech.
posted by mcstayinskool at 12:59 PM on May 13, 2013


You know what else confuses children? Vacuum cleaners.

I have a two year old. STRAWS confuse him. Straws. Yesterday I found him in the closet pretending to drink a bottle of glue. He gets confused if you ask him where his belly is. Kids, much like cats, wander their lives in a haze of confusion. Doubly so if you leave the cap off the glue.
posted by sonika at 1:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


You know what else confuses children? Vacuum cleaners.

My niece was scared shitless of my black nylons when she was two. She thought there was something wrong with my legs.

Alex and Andi's two moms? Didn't even bat an eye.
posted by Elly Vortex at 1:02 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


ah jeez, and now i'm crying again.
posted by nadawi at 1:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Okay, so was that the first time someone's given a speech partly in Spanish in the legislature? If so, that's a pretty big deal.
posted by hoyland at 1:04 PM on May 13, 2013


I think Senator Barb Goodwin has the BEST Minnesota accent. She could fit into the Fargo movie.
posted by jillithd at 1:04 PM on May 13, 2013


At least everybody (on both sides) seems to believe that the bill will pass, which makes me feel a little less nervous.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:05 PM on May 13, 2013


Ah dammit, no Spanish speakers at MPR to transcribe?
posted by clavicle at 1:05 PM on May 13, 2013


Sly Corinthians reference there. Goodwin's focus on identity is a solid one, I think.
posted by donquixote at 1:06 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


zombieflanders - i was thinking the same thing when the anti lady was all like "statutes will change today." that a bitter little white flag, right there.
posted by nadawi at 1:06 PM on May 13, 2013


I'm not really sure what's on the apocalypse-checklist for crazy nutters but I suspect a
- Catholic
- woman
- speaking Spanish
- in favor of gay marriage
checks a few things off for them.
posted by secretseasons at 1:06 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


"The Divine Tension"

I would listen the hell out of any band named that.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:07 PM on May 13, 2013


zombieflanders - the Senate has been expected to pass the bill. The dems have a majority and a couple of republicans have publicly stated they support it. I think someone's math was telling me you'd need like 14 DFLers to vote no for it to fail.
posted by nickmark at 1:09 PM on May 13, 2013


Sen. Ron Latz (DFL):
We have an opportunity today to take another step forward into the bright sunshine of civil rights. Whatever we do today, it will not affect my marriage. The long hours in the legislature from January to May might affect my marriage, but a same sex couple next door that gets married is not going to affect my marriage one bit.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:10 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I really enjoy how Senator Latz actually ties together the rhetoric of his fellow states-people.

Also, he has brass cojones.
posted by donquixote at 1:10 PM on May 13, 2013


Yes, the house vote was the critical one, and it passed fairly easily there. The senate is a rubber stamp, as will be Gov Dayton's signature. At this point a very long drawn out rubber stamp (though I think it's worth it for people to get on record for this, I just want it to be done).
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:10 PM on May 13, 2013


"God made gays. God made gays capable of loving other people. Including people of the same gender." Just in case we weren't clear on what 'gay' meant.
posted by hoyland at 1:11 PM on May 13, 2013


FINALLY! A person who paid attention in bible study classes talks about how men had multiple wives in the bible.
posted by jillithd at 1:12 PM on May 13, 2013


but a same sex couple next door that gets married is not going to affect my marriage one bit

Not to hair split, because Latz is really giving a good speech, but this will affect your marriage. You'll get to live next to a happily married couple! Seriously.
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:12 PM on May 13, 2013


Latz is killing it. This is a speech for the ages, and something I hope we hear a lot of people riffing on in other states and in Congress, SCOTUS, and the White House.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:13 PM on May 13, 2013


Is it weird that when Latz fact-checked Westrom, I got entirely too excited?

Also, I just cried "MODENS PONENS, BITCH!" I need to calm down.
posted by donquixote at 1:15 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


I do find his habit of saying "I submit..." a bit tedious.
posted by hoyland at 1:15 PM on May 13, 2013


Tweet from AP reporter: "A few fence-sitting lawmakers have had sober, contemplative looks on their faces for quite some time. Not counting on them to speak"
posted by nickmark at 1:18 PM on May 13, 2013


Senator Ron Latz reprsents St. Louis Park. It was my neighborhood when I was a child. It's the neighborhood that produced the Coen Brothers and Al Franken.

Represent.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Senator Neinow believes a vast majority of Minnesotans oppose? Actually there is a survey: 48 percent in favor, 44 percent against.

These are low information voters. And they are senators.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:22 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


"marriage is for protecting children so gays can't have it!"
"if you let gets get married then they'll get to adopt children!"

uh, guys - i'm pretty sure you're arguing that gay marriage will help protect children.
posted by nadawi at 1:22 PM on May 13, 2013


Oh, Gazelka. BAD START.
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:26 PM on May 13, 2013


The Magnum P.I. justification of "I can't explain it, it's just what I feel" isn't good argumentation, Gazelka. You're not Tom Selleck.
posted by donquixote at 1:27 PM on May 13, 2013



I have gay friends, I like gay people but....
posted by Jalliah at 1:27 PM on May 13, 2013


Gazelka literally admitted that he himself cannot reconcile supporting gay people but being opposed to gay marriage.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:27 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Gazelka is making less sense than his earlier rants. I hope a few of these speeches are changing votes with their insanity, but not in the way they are trying to.
posted by Clinging to the Wreckage at 1:27 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"It's hard to find an answer that solves both sides." Why do we need to solve your side? You want us to be unequal to you. You don't deserve that and you're not going to get it.
posted by Epenthesis at 1:28 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Hmm, so God agrees with you? How surprising!
posted by benito.strauss at 1:28 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


i love their frustrated resignation. i could drink from that cup all fucking day.
posted by nadawi at 1:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


"This is going to pass. I'm going to vote no. Where do we go from there?"

A bar. To celebrate.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [10 favorites]


"This is going to pass. I'm going to vote no. Where do we go from there?"

A gay bar. To celebrate.


Fixed.
posted by donquixote at 1:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]



lol
posted by Jalliah at 1:30 PM on May 13, 2013


Good call. There's one two blocks from me.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:30 PM on May 13, 2013


OMG "god has been cited on both sides, so lets move forward!" laughing so hard.
posted by nadawi at 1:31 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


There's an end in sight! Finally!
posted by dinty_moore at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2013


Hmm, all this talk of Lincoln and gay bars? Maybe the Electric Six knew something.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2013


"We're moving now into the final wrap-up speeches"

For those not watching the stream.
posted by VTX at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2013


Last lap of speeches. We can make it! (girds bladder)
posted by donquixote at 1:33 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Humphrey reference!
posted by nickmark at 1:34 PM on May 13, 2013


Apparently 5 more speeches.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:34 PM on May 13, 2013


Wow, HHH!! No Wellstone name-check?
posted by wenestvedt at 1:34 PM on May 13, 2013


Wellstone voted for DOMA - maybe not the best reference for today...
posted by nickmark at 1:35 PM on May 13, 2013


Does anyone know how they decide who speaks, how many speak, and how long?
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Ah, good point, I just figured someone was flipping through the state history book, trying to cram in as many references as possible. Like a writer's room thing, though, some of the ideas aren't good ideas.
posted by wenestvedt at 1:38 PM on May 13, 2013


Wellstone voted for DOMA

Really! I didn't know that. Or if I did, I pushed it to the back of my mind. That takes him down an awesomeness notch in my book, but he's still way ahead of most of our current elected officials.
posted by Elly Vortex at 1:39 PM on May 13, 2013


Petersen describes himself as being privileged to marry his wife. Man, he and I completely agree that this is an expression of privilege.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:39 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Tip of the cap to Petersen. Takes balls to break ranks in the GOP, they are not cool with disloyalty.
posted by mcstayinskool at 1:41 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I think you're gonna agree on more than that.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:41 PM on May 13, 2013


To me the most interesting people are the Republicans who are voting "Yes". It sounds like there are some interesting and complicated stories behind them. Peterson's placing of the burden of proof, for example.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:41 PM on May 13, 2013


Takes balls to break ranks in the GOP, they are not cool with disloyalty.

Yep. Kudos to him.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:42 PM on May 13, 2013


Wellstone did change his position later on, it should be noted.
posted by nickmark at 1:43 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Peterson also gets kudos for implicitly pointing out the disanalogy between the choice to worship and a person's sexual object preference. Well argued, sir.
posted by donquixote at 1:44 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


AH! Libertarian! This makes a lot more sense. Not that republicans can't be for gay marriage, or libertarians can't be against it.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:46 PM on May 13, 2013


Classy of Petersen to confess that morality is subjective.
posted by padraigin at 1:46 PM on May 13, 2013


Good Lord, a Libertarian legislator who walks the walk?!?!? Consider my gob smacked.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:46 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


came right out and said that he might lose his job over this, but that this is the right thing to do. good on him.
posted by nadawi at 1:46 PM on May 13, 2013


Senator Hann: "I AM UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS PLEASE TALK ABOUT MONEY"
posted by donquixote at 1:47 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Ahh, Senator Hann reminding me of why I hate the state legislature of MN. I'm not sure if they've ever finished a budget on time.
posted by graventy at 1:48 PM on May 13, 2013


Um... that's not how other people say 'divisive', right?
posted by hoyland at 1:49 PM on May 13, 2013


Hann is winding up to sell a big pile of bullshit, isn't he?
posted by benito.strauss at 1:49 PM on May 13, 2013


It's how his side says it.
posted by nickmark at 1:49 PM on May 13, 2013


Have any other republicans come out for the bill? I'm checking in from the airplane.
posted by Area Man at 1:49 PM on May 13, 2013


"We still don't have a budget!" David Hann

The first time in recent memory a Minnesotan Republican has ever put the budget before hyperpartisan wedge issues.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hann is winding up to sell a big pile of bullshit, isn't he?

YYYYYUUUPPP!
posted by donquixote at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


time to turn on MPR in my office, very quietly...
posted by Elly Vortex at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"it's deeply, deeply offensive to be accused of being a bigot when i'm being a bigot!"

be the change you want to see, senator.
posted by nadawi at 1:50 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


"Getting called a bigot is very offensive!"

Spare me your oily tears you miserable turd.
posted by kavasa at 1:51 PM on May 13, 2013 [7 favorites]


If we cannot say with certainty that at this moment Jefferson would have been opposed to gay marriage on religious grounds, don't try to claim he's on your side.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:51 PM on May 13, 2013


The best way to avoid being called a bigot is to support equal rights.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:52 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


The faulty essentializing of marriage into nature is "pretty deep"? Really, Senator Hann? The realist position there is actually kind of vacuous.
posted by donquixote at 1:52 PM on May 13, 2013


Also marriage is wildly different between cultures and used to be chattel slavery for aristocratic women in Western cultures, so what the fuck are you "it's always been between two consenting hetero adults" people even talking about.

Little compromise? Are you fucking joking?
posted by kavasa at 1:52 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Gazelka is my second cousin, and it's a great pleasure to watch him cope with this on TV.
posted by EricGjerde at 1:52 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


The Republicans passed the marriage amendment in 2011 when there wasn't a budget deal.
posted by Area Man at 1:53 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hann is going to go for Bingo in just one person's speech.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:53 PM on May 13, 2013


Hann is going to go for Bingo in just one person's speech.

That deserves a lighting of Saganaki.
posted by donquixote at 1:54 PM on May 13, 2013


Bleh, I should have waited to turn on the radio until after Hann spoke.
posted by Elly Vortex at 1:54 PM on May 13, 2013


I wouldn't expect Senjem to be much better.
posted by nickmark at 1:55 PM on May 13, 2013


Senjem is one of the Republicans that has been on the fence.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:55 PM on May 13, 2013


Seriously, is this 'divisive' pronunciation some crazy Minnesota thing I didn't know about?
posted by hoyland at 1:55 PM on May 13, 2013


so is there any chance the governor will go ahead and sign today just to be part of the party or will it still be tomorrow?
posted by nadawi at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


Is he going to vote yes because Bob and Jay mow their lawn?
posted by hoyland at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


No, I think he just wasn't pronouncing divisive correctly. Which is a problem when you say it as often as he did.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


The governor said tomorrow at 5pm.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


We should vote yes because the gays keep a nice house -- Senjem. O...kay?
posted by donquixote at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


Senjem is one of the Republicans that has been on the fence.

Shows me. I confess I mostly form my opinions of legislators based on their positions on other issues; they usually (but not always) fit the mold I expect them to.
posted by nickmark at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2013


THEY MOW THEIR LAWN.
posted by clavicle at 1:58 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


HE STILL ISN'T SURE!
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:58 PM on May 13, 2013


Maybe just a state senate thing, hoyland? Also yeah... I think he is going to vote yes because of clean lawns. I missed where he's from, must be one of the exurbs?
posted by kavasa at 1:58 PM on May 13, 2013


No, I think he just wasn't pronouncing divisive correctly. Which is a problem when you say it as often as he did.

Senjem did it too, which is why I wondered if it was a Minnesota thing.
posted by hoyland at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013


(I will not lie, the lawn thing is 100% true to my experience of living here.)
posted by clavicle at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013


He's from Rochester, and they do love their tidy yards there.
posted by padraigin at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013


Rochester. It's where the Mayo Clinic is.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013


Also I guess the dude is literally speechifying about a vote he somehow still hasn't decided.

I suppose he gets the gold ribbon for vacuity?
posted by kavasa at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013


Is he going to vote yes because Bob and Jay mow their lawn?

My understanding of Minnesota says "Yes".
posted by benito.strauss at 1:59 PM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh Rochester? And the gays he knows keep their lawn tidy? Yeah he'll end up voting yes.
posted by kavasa at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2013


I say divisive that way. (Streaming audio is working!)
posted by Area Man at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2013


Yeah, I think he's just trying to talk about how being gay is not as SCARY as some would say. What do you want at base from your neighbors? You want them to keep their property looking nice. He's got gay neighbors, and what do you know, they're just like him.
posted by chazlarson at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


ps HI EVERYONE I'M HOME FROM WORK TIME FOR 78 COMMENTS PER SECOND.
posted by kavasa at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


the lawn thing makes sense if he's voting for equality - that he might not have good, close gay friends - but the ones he knows are just guys living their lives and keeping up with their lawns, same as all his other neighbors (except that one, you know who you are, frank!), so why shouldn't they be married?
posted by nadawi at 2:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


And when they came to take away my marriage because I do a shitty job keeping my lawn nice, there was no one left to speak for me.
posted by secretseasons at 2:01 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


I just tuned in! How do we say divisive?!
posted by MsDaniB at 2:01 PM on May 13, 2013


I just tuned in! How do we say divisive?!

As 'divissive' apparently.
posted by hoyland at 2:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Dude, we (heterosexual married couple) are TERRIBLE at mowing our lawn. Never to the point of breaking the law/local ordinance on the length of the grass, but we are not good lawn neighbors. Should we not be married?

Also, Dibble says "Minnesotans" like a true Minnesotan. Aw, and now he's going to make me cry!
posted by jillithd at 2:03 PM on May 13, 2013


Let America Be America Again by Langston Hughes. A poet who many have argued was gay, and whose poem represents a representation of America's dream of freedom, and a sense that it has been betrayed to those on the margins.

A lovely choice by Dibble, especially to abridge it to represent only the dream, which, today, we will be a little closer to.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:03 PM on May 13, 2013


dibble is getting lots of people to cry it looks like.
posted by nadawi at 2:04 PM on May 13, 2013


If Dibble is speaking, is the vote soon?
posted by Area Man at 2:05 PM on May 13, 2013


Yes, the vote is soon
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:05 PM on May 13, 2013


"There's no limit to love. No limit. It doesn't run out. It only expands." -- Scott Dibble.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 2:05 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


i hope they've given him the last speech.
posted by nadawi at 2:06 PM on May 13, 2013


How do we say divisive?!

jiffisive
posted by drezdn at 2:07 PM on May 13, 2013


listen to the crowd!!!!
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:08 PM on May 13, 2013


And to think - all those people camped out in the Capital still probably haven't heard the new Daft Punk album! Their day will get EVEN BETTER
posted by antonymous at 2:08 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Live stream of the crowds in the rotunda if you want to see the eruption of happiness after the vote.
posted by Corinth at 2:08 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


So many goosebumps - I love hearing the crowd outside the chamber!
posted by DingoMutt at 2:09 PM on May 13, 2013


Surely Bakk's last.
posted by hoyland at 2:09 PM on May 13, 2013


i hope they've given him the last speech.

grumpycatNO.jpg
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:09 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yes, Bakk usually goes last.
posted by Area Man at 2:09 PM on May 13, 2013


Live stream of the crowds in the rotunda if you want to see the eruption of happiness after the vote.

I've got the rotunda stream playing low behind the floor speeches. It's a fun bit of synergy.
posted by Think_Long at 2:10 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I do not care about summer camp. I can't care any less about summer camp.
posted by dinty_moore at 2:10 PM on May 13, 2013


I've got the rotunda stream playing low behind the floor speeches. It's a fun bit of synergy.

How does your internet connection support such craziness?
posted by hoyland at 2:10 PM on May 13, 2013


This story's worth it just for the part where he said "Well, HECK!".
posted by padraigin at 2:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I do not care about summer camp. I can't care any less about summer camp.

I think there are going to be gay people at summer camp in a second.
posted by hoyland at 2:11 PM on May 13, 2013


I've got the rotunda stream playing low behind the floor speeches. It's a fun bit of synergy.

BRILLIANT
posted by donquixote at 2:11 PM on May 13, 2013


Just wait, he's building to something.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:11 PM on May 13, 2013


I was good until the crowd in the rotunda started singing the Star-Spangled Banner at the same time Bakk started talking about leukemia and THERE'S JUST TOO MANY FEELS
posted by donquixote at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


How does your internet connection support such craziness?

University network baby!
posted by Think_Long at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013


Wait, RAY is GAY? WAT?
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think there are going to be gay people at summer camp in a second.

Alright, tell me more about the summer camp.
posted by Corinth at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


And oh my god the Star Spangled Banner playing behind Bakk's speech.
posted by Think_Long at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013


HELP where is the livestream, I wanna watch unhappy homophobes not getting their way!
posted by elizardbits at 2:13 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Wait, all those gay people and people who love gay people are singing the national anthem....Does that mean that the national anthem is now tainted by the gay and can't ever be sung anymore?
posted by rtha at 2:14 PM on May 13, 2013


Try MPRnews.org
posted by padraigin at 2:14 PM on May 13, 2013


In the FPP.
posted by hoyland at 2:14 PM on May 13, 2013


http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2013/05/watch-gay-marriage-senate-floor-debate-live
posted by donquixote at 2:14 PM on May 13, 2013


Link to live stream in FPP.
posted by Area Man at 2:14 PM on May 13, 2013


I'm watching the link donquixote mentioned. (And I mentioned upthread.)
posted by jiawen at 2:16 PM on May 13, 2013


Floor debate
posted by Think_Long at 2:16 PM on May 13, 2013


also, jesus

I honestly can't believe this is happening, I mean

since I understood this part of myself, really understood it, literally the same year my sister got married, and suddenly she had a husband, and I always thought I would never have that

except I guess I will be able to? I will be able to have my boyfriend - 7 years now - as my husband.

I can't even - I mean, my husband? My husband?

...

I've just been staring at that last sentence, all through Dibble's speech and into Bakk's, now.

It's really happening, isn't it?
posted by kavasa at 2:16 PM on May 13, 2013 [47 favorites]


FPP link not working for me, otherwise would not have asked!

yay thx jiawen/donquix
posted by elizardbits at 2:16 PM on May 13, 2013


I've got http://www.livestream.com/uptakemnsenate
posted by hoyland at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


Woop, everybody gets invited to kavasa's wedding.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


It's working fine for me.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


senate stream
rotunda celebrations and protests

both of these links are working for me right now.
posted by nadawi at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


Though that might be the same infrastructure as the one in the FPP.
posted by hoyland at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


Here we go.
posted by hoyland at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


These links are working for me:
http://www.startribune.com/politics/207165741.html

http://www.startribune.com/politics/207166651.html
posted by DingoMutt at 2:17 PM on May 13, 2013


VOTING IS HAPPENING!
posted by nadawi at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


time to vote...
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


36/30
posted by clavicle at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


YAY!
posted by jiawen at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


Looks like Senjem didn't think the lawn was good enough...
posted by donquixote at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


Where was Hayden? In the toilet?
posted by hoyland at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Passed
posted by Area Man at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


And there we have it.
posted by Epenthesis at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


37-30, it passes!
posted by zombieflanders at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


PASSED!!!!
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


37 in favor, 30 opposed
posted by jiawen at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013


OMG

ALL IN FAVOR OF PARTY SAY AYE
posted by elizardbits at 2:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


Oh, man. That huge swell of "YES! YES! YES!" chanting in the crowd made me seriously tear up! WOO HOO!
posted by jillithd at 2:19 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


YAY!
posted by dinty_moore at 2:19 PM on May 13, 2013


W000000TTTT!!!!!!!!!! IT HAS PASSED.
posted by donquixote at 2:19 PM on May 13, 2013


I love happy endings.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:19 PM on May 13, 2013


Hayden seemed to be a lump when he was my Senator.
posted by jiawen at 2:20 PM on May 13, 2013


Well done, Minnesota!!!!!
posted by DingoMutt at 2:20 PM on May 13, 2013


Congratulations, MN!!!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:20 PM on May 13, 2013


THING
posted by shakespeherian at 2:20 PM on May 13, 2013


Congratulations!!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 2:20 PM on May 13, 2013


WE'RE NUMBER 12! WE'RE NUMBER 12!
posted by jillithd at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013 [16 favorites]


Well done, MN
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013


yay!!
posted by Jalliah at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013


FOUR AND A HALF HOURS YOU FUCKERS HOW ABOUT JUST VOTING NEXT TIME
posted by graventy at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Kavasa, I want to send you a pickle fork or rice cooker or something gadgety please! :)
posted by clever sheep at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


This August 1, my wife and I will celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary. Today I have realized two things:

1. We will share this anniversary with a lot of happy same-sex couples!

2. Jesus fuck, I better make dinner reservations NOW because, damn. Won't be anyplace with a free table with all those weddings going on.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013 [8 favorites]


Hayden seemed to be a lump when he was my Senator.

He's mine. Took his damn time voting.
posted by hoyland at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is this vote something I'd need to have strangers watch TV on the internet for me, in order to know about? Yep, thanks all!

Yay Minnesoata! Not just nice, but good!
posted by hap_hazard at 2:21 PM on May 13, 2013


Nice!
posted by burnmp3s at 2:22 PM on May 13, 2013


God, this day feels great, even if I do have two puking kids at home.
posted by padraigin at 2:22 PM on May 13, 2013


kavasa we are all going to send so many fucking flowers you are going to be so pissed
posted by elizardbits at 2:22 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


2. Jesus fuck, I better make dinner reservations NOW because, damn. Won't be anyplace with a free table with all those weddings going on.

See?! Gays are ruining your marriage already, maybe!
posted by rtha at 2:22 PM on May 13, 2013 [15 favorites]


Crown chanting Thank You Thank You Thank You!
posted by jiawen at 2:23 PM on May 13, 2013


Also - kavasa: If you have the opportunity to have the ceremony in your state/city hall, while many other gay couples are doing the same? DO IT. I have gotten gay-married that way myself (more than once!) and it is incredibly moving.
posted by rtha at 2:24 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Yay!!!!
posted by jph at 2:24 PM on May 13, 2013


Yay.
posted by kyrademon at 2:24 PM on May 13, 2013


Now they're following jillithd's lead.
posted by jiawen at 2:24 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]



I gonna have the last beer in my fridge to celebrate Minnesota.
posted by Jalliah at 2:25 PM on May 13, 2013


Poor Minnesota State Legislature. Everyone's gone off to party and they have to stay behind and discuss the state pension system.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:26 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Governor is going to sign the bill TODAY at 5pm????
Awesome!
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:27 PM on May 13, 2013


No no, sorry. Tomorrow. I don't know what day it is.

Tomorrow, Governor Mark Dayton will sign into law House File 1054/Senate File 925, granting all Minnesotans the freedom to marry. The signing will take place on the Capitol South Steps at 5pm.

Who: Governor Mark Dayton, legislators, supporters
What: Bill Signing Ceremony for H.F. 1054/ S.F. 925
When: Tuesday, May 14, 2013, 5:00pm
Where: State Capitol, South Steps

Media RSVP: Please send an email to katharine.tinucci@state.mn.us along with any technical needs your organization may have. A press riser with power will be provided.

A media walkthrough of the space will take place at 9:30 am on Tuesday May, 14.
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:28 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Tomorrow at 5 PM.
posted by MsDaniB at 2:29 PM on May 13, 2013


Dibble's on the Rotunda to speak now.
posted by Think_Long at 2:29 PM on May 13, 2013


When do we get to the man on turtle marriages?

I don't think Senator Mitch McConnell wants to marry a man.
posted by Seymour Zamboni at 2:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


Dibble approaching the podium in the rotunda.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/207166651.html
posted by nickmark at 2:29 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Who's talking? Is that Marty?
posted by jiawen at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2013


I've already forgotten who this bloke is. Too may speeches.
posted by hoyland at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2013


yes! this is incredible.
posted by ialwayscryatendings at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2013


Looks like Bakk, then Dibble and Karen Clark.
posted by hoyland at 2:30 PM on May 13, 2013


Awesome. Congrats, soon to be married minnesotans. And kavasa? Marriage to someone you love rocks. Bout damn time you get the choice.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:31 PM on May 13, 2013


Talking now is majority leader Tom Bakk
posted by nickmark at 2:31 PM on May 13, 2013


I meant the guy who introduced Bakk... things are moving too fast. :)
posted by jiawen at 2:31 PM on May 13, 2013


My Facebook feed is full of proud Minnesotans, some of whom can now get legally married.
posted by Area Man at 2:32 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I GET TO HAVE A WIFE WHEN I GO HOME FOR CHRISTMAS.


!!!!!!!!!
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:33 PM on May 13, 2013 [21 favorites]


I've been rereading Pratchett too much lately, and keep seeing "Dibble" as "Dibbler" ... Equality-onna-stick for everyone!
posted by DingoMutt at 2:33 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


so now that I'm mostly done crying (really, self?)

and have kissed the cat's head per my BF's texted request*

rtha that seems like maybe a great idea

although

it will be an awfully public place for me to be a sobbing wreck, which is not a state that I'm used to

*his second request - seriously just now - was for me to adjust one of his netrunner decks, oh my gosh we are the nerdiest nerds that ever nerded
posted by kavasa at 2:33 PM on May 13, 2013 [14 favorites]


I meant the guy who introduced Bakk... things are moving too fast. :)

Richard Cohen - he's my Senator and he's dope as shit.
posted by Think_Long at 2:34 PM on May 13, 2013


Cool. Thanks, Think_Long.
posted by jiawen at 2:35 PM on May 13, 2013


One friend reports on facebook that church bells in Downtown Minneapolis are ringing.
posted by Area Man at 2:35 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


kavasa - my nerdy husband and i really like on the edge and you can get a big collection of cards for cheap!
posted by nadawi at 2:37 PM on May 13, 2013


One friend reports on facebook that church bells in Downtown Minneapolis are ringing.

Not by me (I have church bells starting 4pm Saturday through Sunday). Maybe in Loring Park.
posted by hoyland at 2:37 PM on May 13, 2013


kavasa, that reminds me that we have to go to Zantigo sometime. :)
posted by jiawen at 2:38 PM on May 13, 2013


Lake Wobegone destination wedding!!
posted by jph at 2:38 PM on May 13, 2013


Though it occurs to me maybe I'm not hearing churches downtown. I've always assumed they were downtown, but I've got churches on like three sides.
posted by hoyland at 2:38 PM on May 13, 2013


Scott Dibble: "I'm gonna be a married man in Minnesotah!"
posted by jiawen at 2:39 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Just to be clear, this does not make up for the winter.

But it's pretty great.
posted by secretseasons at 2:39 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty close to downtown, but I don't hear any church bells.
posted by jiawen at 2:39 PM on May 13, 2013


I can hear bells in Uptown.
posted by padraigin at 2:41 PM on May 13, 2013


CARLBORN!!!!!!!!
posted by Think_Long at 2:42 PM on May 13, 2013


it will be an awfully public place for me to be a sobbing wreck, which is not a state that I'm used to

I can promise that you will not be alone! When the random guys in front of us in line in 2004 asked us to be their witnesses (they'd brought their pastor, but no extra people), we of course agreed, and one of them teared up, and then I did, and then it seemed like everyone in the rotunda at City Hall was crying.
posted by rtha at 2:43 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


My mom's family is Minnesotan (from Lake Woebegon! [Anoka]). So, to my ancestral brethren and sisteren - congratulations and I hope that all of your weddings contain the requisite amount of jello salad.
posted by sonika at 2:44 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


jiawen - yeah! it will be tough scheduling this summer but I'm sure we can manage it!

sen dibble and his husband are both attractive men

gosh!

also collective gay wedding idea seems like a go with boyfriend

I think... I think we will probably do that

haha

poor kitties, they don't understand why you're nuzzling their little annoyed faces
posted by kavasa at 2:45 PM on May 13, 2013 [7 favorites]


I like Sen. Dibble's husband's proud smile as Scott was speaking.
posted by jiawen at 2:46 PM on May 13, 2013


I have one report from the Campbell Mithun tower on 9th and one from the Hennepin County government center. I'm on an airplane and can't vouch for any bells, just passing on what I saw on Facebook.
posted by Area Man at 2:47 PM on May 13, 2013


Man, I would love to be in my small town on August 1 and get married in my courthouse. We already started planning for New York though! Anyone know if it's a problem to have legal ceremonies in two states??

IF TOO MANY STATES LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE, GAY PEOPLE WILL HAVE TOO MUCH TROUBLE DECIDING WHICH STATE TO GET MARRIED IN!

(!!)
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:47 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


I can't hear any bells from my office, but the closest church is the Basilica, so I wouldn't really expect to...

I am across the street from the Saloon, but I'm afraid the tinted windows don't make it easy to tell what's going on inside.
posted by nickmark at 2:48 PM on May 13, 2013


From my balcony, I can see the big queer-friendly church across from the Walker, but I don't hear anything. I'm probably just too far away. Or maybe the wrong side of downtown.
posted by jiawen at 2:50 PM on May 13, 2013


kavasa, I'm going to have too much free time this summer, so let me know.

Ohandbytheway, congratulations! :)
posted by jiawen at 2:51 PM on May 13, 2013


I wish I could go to the signing tomorrow. I'll have to send my best wishes from afar.

Oh my god, I just realized it's supposed to be about 90 degrees in the Cities tomorrow. All of those people standing out on the lawn - the vast majority of whom haven't seen an 80 degree day in 8 months, let alone a 90 degree day - they are all going to melt in the heat and then burn to a crisp.

Still wish I could be there, though.
posted by Elly Vortex at 2:53 PM on May 13, 2013


Free concert / celebration at Ecolab Plaza in Downtown St. Paul tomorrow evening (6pm to 10:15). Guests include the Suburbs.
posted by Area Man at 2:58 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


OK, next states in line? This is the kind of endless Metafilter discussion I would like more of!
posted by Dreidl at 3:00 PM on May 13, 2013


I'm confused...was my hetero marriage supposed to be destroyed right after the Senate vote, or is that not until Dayton signs this into law? Will my wedding ring dissolve into a tiny pool of acid at midnight? Should I return my wedding gifts to Macy's, and will they accept them without the gift receipts? I just need to know what to expect.
posted by castlebravo at 3:01 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


OMG I got so caught up in the yayness and excitement of this thread that I accidentally stayed late at work

GAY MARRIAGE RUINS LIVES
posted by elizardbits at 3:03 PM on May 13, 2013 [22 favorites]


castlebravo, I have no idea. We got marriage equality Dec 9 in WA, and yet mysteriously my homoracial, intergender marriage is still intact? Like we still have bills to pay and our kids still call us Mom and Dad and everything.
posted by KathrynT at 3:04 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


I think you're allowed to keep your wedding gifts, castlebravo, if you and your spouse promise to jointly marry an underage turtle or something ...
posted by DingoMutt at 3:04 PM on May 13, 2013


I hope the conservative Supremes are watching this. Once you've lost Lake Wobegone, you've lost the nation. Just give it up guys and Do the Right Thing.
posted by marsha56 at 3:07 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


OK, next states in line? This is the kind of endless Metafilter discussion I would like more of!

There's a rumour Illinois is gathering steam.
posted by hoyland at 3:09 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


The first out gay person who was ever nice to me as an out gay young man can now get married to his partner of 10 years. Realizing this right now makes my not-living-in-Minnesota ass care about this far deeper than I already did. (Who says Facebook is only evil?)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:09 PM on May 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Yeah, all eyes are on Illinois. :)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:09 PM on May 13, 2013


I understand my wife and I have until August 1 to turn our kids in to be adopted by a newly-married gay couple, is that right?
posted by nickmark at 3:14 PM on May 13, 2013 [9 favorites]


nickmark, I don't think so. I think if your kids are already gay and don't need to be indoctrinated, you can keep them? I dunno.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:18 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


ALSO

yesterday while out for a run I ran by this guy that was like... I dunno, 6'6" 6'7"? Backwards ballcap, athletic shorts, socker socks, warmup jacket, shoulders like ten feet across, just this massive burly muscled wall of jock fratboy

walking hand in hand another, not-quite-so-massive guy

I dunno

It just made me really happy to see them

this is a similar kind of happy glow
posted by kavasa at 3:19 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


I have to say though, I'm glad my sister has already got the grandbaby avenue well covered, because about all mom is likely to get out of me is grandpets
posted by kavasa at 3:21 PM on May 13, 2013


The Uptake is currently replaying the victory speeches in the rotunda, if anyone missed them.
posted by jiawen at 3:22 PM on May 13, 2013


> There's a rumor Illinois is gathering steam.

Still two votes short, according to this. Maybe Minnesota will help the timid step up and do the right thing.
posted by Short Attention Sp at 3:23 PM on May 13, 2013


oh minnesota, i am proud to be an american!
posted by nadawi at 3:26 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


so happy :)
posted by triggerfinger at 3:28 PM on May 13, 2013


Man, I picked a bad afternoon to be stuck in meetings. Very, very happy now.
posted by COBRA! at 3:28 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Good on ya, Minnesota. Good on ya.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:31 PM on May 13, 2013


I understand my wife and I have until August 1 to turn our kids in to be adopted by a newly-married gay couple, is that right?

Well, I'm in MA and we have gay marriage and no one has repossessed my kid yet. Maybe I haven't filed the right paperwork.
posted by sonika at 3:35 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hooray for justice, equality, love and changing fucking stupid laws into less stupid ones!
posted by the quidnunc kid at 3:35 PM on May 13, 2013


Hee. Varsity Theater & Loring Cafe in Dinkytown are already advertising for weddings (Facebook post, but still).
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:35 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hey, nadawi, that's the town I live in! Entertaining movie with lots of frustrating geography. See also Fargo and Joe Somebody, at least. Do movies set in other cities take the same sort of liberties with geography?

Anyway, back on topic, Yay MN Senate, Boo my representative.
posted by chazlarson at 3:37 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, if I ever want to move to the Midwest it looks like I'm moving to Minnesota.

Unless Wisconsin or Michigan ever get their respective acts together. Which seems unlikely. Thanks Governors Walker and Snyder and everyone else who is yucky.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:48 PM on May 13, 2013


Wisconsin has seriously slipped over the last few years... it's pretty sad. I lived there for about 6 years and there is some seriously fantastic places in the state, but I wouldn't move back there right now, and not for awhile. Economically Mn has been ahead of WI for awhile, but in recent years Mn has just pulled away significantly in a lot of QOL areas. I love many parts of WI, especially the S shore by Superior and it kinda breaks my heart to see it suffer so.
posted by edgeways at 3:55 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also for anyone who missed it, here's the final vote board. I haven't seen a text-based tally yet.
posted by jiawen at 3:57 PM on May 13, 2013


Well, if I ever want to move to the Midwest it looks like I'm moving to Minnesota.

Unless Wisconsin or Michigan ever get their respective acts together.


Iowa has marriage equality, and has had it for over four years.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:03 PM on May 13, 2013


and somehow IA hasn't dissolved into an anarchical state.
posted by edgeways at 4:09 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


Dammit, picked the wrong evening to be incommunicado in the studio. Switched the phone on and had about seventy texts, and apparently I am gonna get to officiate a couple of weddings this summer. I can't wait.

Proud as hell to be a Minnesotan today.
posted by Sphinx at 4:11 PM on May 13, 2013 [4 favorites]


I just got back from the Capitol. I was on the second floor, near the benches that look out over the stairway and toward the Senate Chamber door.

I spend A LOT of time at the Minnesota Capitol. Without question, this was one of the most jubilant, excited, and friendly crowds I've ever been around. People were laughing and crying together, talking with strangers, singing loudly and cheering at the top of their lungs. My ears are still ringing. I'm thrilled.

This was amazing. Kudos to the House and Senate (and soon, Governor Dayton) for doing the right thing.

Really, though - thanks to Minnesotans United for All Families for first, beating back a constitutional amendment that would've made this impossible. THEN, for running an amazing legislative advocacy campaign that made this possible. Richard Carlbom, the leader of MN United, deserves a lot of credit, but to be honest, the whole team around the campaigns should be incredibly proud of their work.

Thank you to everyone who made this possible. Minnesota is an even better place to live now.
posted by elmer benson at 4:16 PM on May 13, 2013 [19 favorites]


As a Minnesota-born Rhode Islander, please accept my heartfelt "You betcha!" to all who voted. And have fun getting married, ladies and gentlemen who are now eligible!
posted by wenestvedt at 4:54 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


"If you like Craig Finn so much, why don't you just marry him?"

Well now I can! Thanks, MNLPS!
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:58 PM on May 13, 2013 [6 favorites]


Ahhhhh....

Tuesday evening I'm heading down to Ecolab Plaza in downtown St. Paul to celebrate with Ms Wimp and our 2-year-old granddaughter and all the friends I can muster.
posted by Mental Wimp at 5:00 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Love is patient, but thankfully in Minnesota, not too patient today!
posted by localhuman at 5:03 PM on May 13, 2013


Is gay marriage legal in Minnesota
posted by edgeways at 5:20 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Iowa has marriage equality, and has had it for over four years.

Yes and Iowa is awesome, but if I ever move in that direction it would need to be near(ish) to the UP so I should have specified *northern* Midwest. Or maybe Great Lakes adjacent!
posted by elsietheeel at 5:36 PM on May 13, 2013


Congratulations from your perpetually beleaguered, politically backwoods next-door neighbors, Minnesota! I'll be popping some bubbly on your behalf.
At least you can buy it on Sundays . . .

it's too late for liquor, but we could always get some 3.2

(continued congratulations to Minnesota for this great news and also creating Lifter Puller, thank you)
posted by divined by radio at 6:07 PM on May 13, 2013


Yes and Iowa is awesome, but if I ever move in that direction it would need to be near(ish) to the UP so I should have specified *northern* Midwest. Or maybe Great Lakes adjacent!

I tells you, not to be broken record-ish.. Duluth. 2 hours to the UP. 2 hours to the BWCA... Plus now Gay marriage, and close enough to the WI boarder to buy on Sunday
posted by edgeways at 6:31 PM on May 13, 2013


My mom's family is Minnesotan (from Lake Woebegon! [Anoka]).

You have just invited one of the most Minnesotan of all pasttimes, arguing about whether or not Anoka was the model for Lake Wobegon. Keillor himself says the town was based on y Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota. But obviously he takes a lot of inspiration from his childhood, and his childhood was, in fact ... in Anoka, Halloween Capitol of World!

Fellow MeFites, that nickname is real.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:54 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Yo, it sounds like a bunch of us are going to the City of St. Paul-sponsored bill-signing afterparty.

Impromptu Meetup, anyone?
posted by elmer benson at 7:25 PM on May 13, 2013 [1 favorite]


Anoka, Halloween Capitol of World!

Fellow MeFites, that nickname is real.

My mom has a coffee mug to prove it. Not that I can provide a photo of said mug, but the self-reporting of one's parent's kitsch is a sacred thing.
posted by sonika at 7:44 PM on May 13, 2013


Terry Gydesen, author/photographer of this amazing book on Paul Wellstone, captured some really amazing photos from today.
posted by elmer benson at 8:16 PM on May 13, 2013 [5 favorites]


More photos, from Minnesota Public Radio.
posted by elmer benson at 8:33 PM on May 13, 2013 [2 favorites]


More amazing photos and a fantastic write up from yesterday.
posted by elmer benson at 12:29 PM on May 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


Even more photos.. mainly of the signs.

A small part of me is amused the signage in this fight was:

Pink signs = anti gay marriage

Hunter orange signs = pro gay marriage
posted by edgeways at 12:48 PM on May 14, 2013


Pink signs = anti gay marriage

I can't find it anywhere other than Facebook right now, but there's a fantastic picture floating around from yesterday with a woman holding a sign that reads "YOUR PINK SIGN IS SO GAY" behind one of the pink anti gay marriage signs.
posted by elmer benson at 12:58 PM on May 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


What I found hilarious was that the turnover was so rapid from the Marriage Amendment that a lot of people didn't bother getting new swag. So you had a lot of same sex marriage supporters with their VOTE NO gear (sometimes with the no hastily scribbled out for a yes), and vice versa.
posted by dinty_moore at 1:00 PM on May 14, 2013


Here's the "Your Pink Sign is so Gay" sign.
posted by AwkwardPause at 1:54 PM on May 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's the "Your Pink Sign is so Gay" sign.

I love the slogan "Don't Erase Moms and Dads!" Erm, so if gay marriage is legalized, then all you strapping young men and women are gonna turn gay and marry each other instead of having babies? Is that your argument? Because if it is, I could have told you from the beginning you were going to lose. No one in their right mind would believe that.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:02 PM on May 14, 2013


That same link donquixote and I mentioned upthread is carrying a live feed again; Gov. Dayton is currently speaking.
posted by jiawen at 2:59 PM on May 14, 2013


Feed's not working for me. It's on Channel 11.
posted by hoyland at 3:04 PM on May 14, 2013


I like that they can drag a desk outside.
posted by hoyland at 3:07 PM on May 14, 2013


Yeah, feed's not working for me, either. I'm reading the live blog.
posted by jiawen at 3:08 PM on May 14, 2013


MPR live audio is working.
posted by jiawen at 3:09 PM on May 14, 2013


Bachmann Urges 'Spiritual Warfare' to Enforce Right-Wing Policies
posted by homunculus at 4:19 PM on May 14, 2013


Bah, gave up on MPR once I realized that WCCO radio was broadcasting more of the proceedings.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:28 PM on May 14, 2013


Minneapolis has announced that City Hall will be open at 12:01 am on the first day same sex couples can get married to host weddings and Mayor Rybak (who is already ordained) will be on hand and happy to officiate.

What better place to celebrate an historic occasion than at one of Minnesota’s historic crown jewels. Minneapolis City Hall is a striking example of Romanesque architecture, with a 345 foot clock tower and a dramatic six-story Rotunda adorned with 37 stained glass windows, a skylight and Italian marble.
posted by Area Man at 4:56 PM on May 14, 2013 [4 favorites]


I was there! Saw a lot of really hot gay men.

(It was 100 degrees with very little shade.)
posted by miyabo at 5:27 PM on May 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


I was there too! It's true, hotness abounded. And I think I might have spotted a louche mustachio.
posted by clavicle at 7:31 PM on May 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


I chickened out; parking, heat and a work meeting. Good to see the festivities have commenced, though!

Many of my friends are already starting to plan weddings, and it's reassuring to know that, if I get married, it won't get overturned on some ridiculous basis.
posted by jiawen at 10:40 PM on May 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


Here's video of the signing ceremony and speeches (basically, the video from the live feed that didn't work above).
posted by jiawen at 11:35 PM on May 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


And video of the celebration last night singing Love Is The Law!
posted by jillithd at 10:44 AM on May 15, 2013 [3 favorites]


I was there too! It's true, hotness abounded. And I think I might have spotted a louche mustachio.


You did, you did spotted a louche mustachio! I was there! Wearing gray and yelling happy things! You should have thrown a thing at my head - I didn't see anybody I knew, but these eyes are unaccustomed to direct sunlight.



I looked for the thread to say HAY I AM HERE but couldn't find it at the time.
posted by louche mustachio at 4:54 AM on May 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Aww, I'm sad I missed it - I had plans for Tuesday and would have had to leave work early to get there in time.

I was thinking about how different this feels from the last time I was in a state that made equal marriage legal - Massachusetts in 2003. Then, everyone was happy and cheering and people were making plans, but there was also this feeling like it happened by some rare stroke of luck. Nobody was really sure if it was going to last, or what was going to happen next, or even if same-sex marriage should really be the next fight (versus, say, more laws against workplace discrimination).

And then the horribly sad New York thread a few years ago, where the vote went wrong. And the way gay marriage was used in 2004 versus 2008 versus 2012, where fewer and fewer bans passed the popular vote.

It feels like we're reaching (or maybe have reached) a tipping point. It's actually starting to feel inevitable now, at least to me. And while I've never really understood the furor against marriage, it boggles my mind at how fast things have changed. Thank god.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:44 AM on May 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


I think realistically there are 5-6 other states that may legalize SSM, everything else may well have to be done via favorable SCOTUS action
posted by edgeways at 4:59 PM on May 16, 2013


Next stop, Boy Scouts?
posted by zombieflanders at 6:18 AM on May 23, 2013


George Takei found the "YOUR PINK SIGN IS SO GAY" picture and reposted it to his Facebook. (Citypages link)
posted by elmer benson at 8:27 AM on May 23, 2013


What's up with Illinois? I'm ready for the next post.
posted by Area Man at 1:43 PM on May 28, 2013 [1 favorite]


Supposedly a vote within days because supposedly they have the votes. Greg Harris and his predecessor, Larry McKeon, have been quietly collecting votes for like 10 years at this point and have been biding their time, so I'd kind of hope they Harris knows what he's doing.
posted by hoyland at 2:28 PM on May 28, 2013


In possibly related news, Michele Bachmann has announced that she will not seek reelection in the fall.
posted by jiawen at 8:21 AM on May 29, 2013 [2 favorites]


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