The Gay Guide to Wedded Bliss

May 23, 2013 11:10 PM

Research finds that same-sex unions are happier than heterosexual marriages. What can gay and lesbian couples teach straight ones about living in harmony?
posted by Long Way To Go (46 comments total)

The article is incredibly overwritten, but has a few good points. Stick with it, if you can.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:22 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Boy, I sure wish I was gay.
posted by cmoj at 11:22 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Boy, I sure wish I was gay.

I say that every week, or every time I pass Oxford Street, whichever comes first.

Though at this point maybe its because there's so much working against a same-sex union that the people in them are naturally forming stronger bonds?
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 11:24 PM on May 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

The article is incredibly overwritten, but has a few good points. Stick with it, if you can.

The video is a good five-minute summary.
posted by pracowity at 11:40 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Boy, I sure wish I was gay.

Well, it would be a lot easier than being bi.

Also, as pracovwity noted, the video is pretty good.
posted by SPrintF at 11:51 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

It could be, CiS, but what do you think of the detailed studies in the article (dating back to the 70s!) showing that people in same-sex relationships show far more egalitarian, co-operative behaviours, and have thought through many of the issues that a straight couple simply makes assumptions about? Or the note that women are always more likely to initiate divorce, whether in straight or gay relationships? Or perhaps, as they suggest, the cause is actually the lower incidence of children in gay relationships making them happier. Or the suggestion that women and men really do have difficulty matching sexual desires, and same-sex relationships don't have to worry about this imbalance?
posted by jacalata at 11:53 PM on May 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

What can gay and lesbian couples teach straight ones about living in harmony?
Opposites do NOT attract?
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:55 PM on May 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

You're throwing my entire Paula Abdul–based world-view into question.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:11 AM on May 24, 2013 [22 favorites]

Did they adjust for kids?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:18 AM on May 24, 2013

No one ever really adjusts for kids. You just try to keep your shit together until they move out.

And then you can be DINKs again. Or in this case, maybe double-dink DINKs. Heterosexual DINKs are also relatively happy and egalitarian, aren't they?
posted by pracowity at 12:30 AM on May 24, 2013 [5 favorites]

Did they adjust for kids?

Doesn't this even out? I know same-sex couples raising kids and childless not-same-sex couples.

They would also have to allow for economic factors. It would seem to me that disparity in pay between men and women and the tension it creates in many not-equal-pay marriages is perhaps a non-trivial item.
posted by three blind mice at 12:34 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I suspect the disparity is caused by hetero couples being unable to deal with the passive aggressive twisted logic of the other party.

I also suspect that in trying to answer this question, people are going to be telling us more about themselves than they are about the subject at hand.
posted by zoo at 12:44 AM on May 24, 2013 [6 favorites]

Or the note that women are always more likely to initiate divorce, whether in straight or gay relationships?

It seems hard for a man to initiate divorce in a marriage of lesbians.
posted by Gyan at 12:48 AM on May 24, 2013 [12 favorites]

Doesn't this even out? I know same-sex couples raising kids and childless not-same-sex couples.

You could still compare apples to apples by comparing childless same-sex and hetero couples separately from their procreating counterparts. Which hey, it looks like they kind of did (from the FPP):

Not all research comparing same-sex and married straight couples has done an adequate job of controlling for this important difference. One that did, a 2008 study in the Journal of Family Psychology, looked at couples during their first 10 years of cohabitation. It found that childless lesbians had a higher “relationship quality” than their child-free gay-male and heterosexual counterparts. And yet a 2010 study in the same journal found that gay-male, lesbian, and straight couples alike experienced a “modest decline in relationship quality” in the first year of adopting a child. As same-sex couples become parents in greater numbers, they could well endure some of the same strife as their straight peers. It remains to be seen whether the different parenting styles identified by Charlotte Patterson might blunt some of the ennui of child-rearing.

posted by en forme de poire at 1:01 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Haven't read the article but I read the headline and the first thing that jumps out for me is:

Heterosexuals get married because that's what they're supposed to do, it's legal everywhere, society approves, there are no roadblocks etc. I imagine it's easy to get deep into it all without really giving it much thought, reflection.

Homosexuals get married because it's something the very much want to do regardless of all roadblocks, impediments etc. Nobody does it lightly. It's a serious and brave and conscious commitment.

I wonder how the stats will measure out in a few generations ... assuming same sex laws continue to change apace.
posted by philip-random at 1:21 AM on May 24, 2013 [20 favorites]

Personally, I would suspect the future will show gay men getting married because it's fashionable. But I've been a happily married gay man for so long, I'm out of touch.
posted by Goofyy at 1:50 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Meanwhile, in Texas: Texas Judge Blocks Woman From Living With Lesbian Partner at Ex-Husband's Request
posted by homunculus at 2:08 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

It has never occurred to me to look at gay and straight couples in the ways that people are in this article (which kind of makes sense given I'm not a social scientist in any way) but it's all really interesting and I'm glad there are people studying these kinds of things. I enjoyed this article.

Haven't read the article but I read the headline and the first thing that jumps out for me is:

The article is quite long and there's a lot in there but it does a pretty good job of showing that things are a lot more complicated than just gay people have to try harder to be together.

I suspect the disparity is caused by hetero couples being unable to deal with the passive aggressive twisted logic of the other party.

I don't think my husband has ever displayed passive aggressive twisted logic. Why should he? That makes no sense.
posted by shelleycat at 2:33 AM on May 24, 2013

shelleycat: "I suspect the disparity is caused by hetero couples being unable to deal with the passive aggressive twisted logic of the other party."

I don't think my husband has ever displayed passive aggressive twisted logic. Why should he? That makes no sense.

I think zoo's comment was meant to be read as a whole. Here's the last sentence:

I also suspect that in trying to answer this question, people are going to be telling us more about themselves than they are about the subject at hand.

posted by moody cow at 3:24 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

It seems hard for a man to initiate divorce in a marriage of lesbians.

But state legislatures sure will try!
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:57 AM on May 24, 2013 [21 favorites]

that the traditional heterosexual marriage roles under the patriarchy are oppressive bullshit designed to maximize misery?
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:01 AM on May 24, 2013 [9 favorites]

zoo's comment still makes no sense to me. For a start, there was no question there. Either they believe what they're saying, which is sexist and stupid, or they're trying for something else in which case just say whatever it is. Neither seems to fit with the thoughtful article in the post.
posted by shelleycat at 4:10 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I want to like this article, but it contains so many offensive nuggets!

If women become dissatisfied even when married to other women, maybe the problem with marriage isn’t men. Maybe women are too particular. Maybe even women don’t know what women want.

which is actually repeated again, in the same article, with

Pepper Schwartz noted this in the early 1980s, as did the 2006 study of same-sex couples in Sweden and Norway, in which researchers speculated that women may have a “stronger general sensitivity to the quality of relationships.” Meaning maybe women are just picky, and when you have two women, you have double the pickiness. So perhaps the real threat to marriage is: women.

posted by corb at 4:50 AM on May 24, 2013 [9 favorites]

Doesn't this even out? I know same-sex couples raising kids and childless not-same-sex couples.

It doesn't even out because the numbers aren't the same. Same-sex couples are less likely to raise kids that opposite sex-couples. If having kids makes your relationship less happy (which seems to be the case on average) then there's going to be a greater proportion of opposite-sex marriages with that problem.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:14 AM on May 24, 2013

zoo's comment still makes no sense to me.

If only there were some way to ask him!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:26 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I agree with you, corb. There is some really interesting information in there that is completely tainted by those bizarre comments. Good to know we can't talk about a new paradigm of marriage without again falling on to stereotypes of women being "picky" and "not knowing what they want" when that can just as easily be interpreted as "selective" and "knowing exactly what they want and therefore kicking your inadequate (straight or gay) ass to the curb." Sheesh.
posted by Polyhymnia at 5:26 AM on May 24, 2013 [5 favorites]

It could be, CiS...

...I see what you did there...
posted by drowsy at 5:39 AM on May 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

Or the note that women are always more likely to initiate divorce, whether in straight or gay relationships?

When my parents divorced, my mother's lawyer told her it was better for her to initiate the proceedings, even though my father was the one who actually wanted it first and more (and had already left the family home). He didn't explain why; in retrospect it seems like maybe it's a custom dating back to the days before no-fault divorce, when one spouse or another had to officially "take the blame."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:12 AM on May 24, 2013

Anyone care to the actual research that the article refers to? I tried to skim through the dross to find it, but no luck. As someone mentioned above, I suspect it just comes down to kids. Kids have been shown to remove happiness and money from relationships already, so any study that's looking for other reasons is going to have to account for that if they want to add something to the conversation.
posted by NathanBoy at 6:12 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Hm.

I would suggest that if you say it "comes down to" anything, you're maybe not in the best place to dictate what researchers must do to add to the discussion. The studies the article mentions are fascinating, and as a whole it gave me a lot to think about regarding my relationship and impending (on an unknown timeline) marriage.
posted by kavasa at 6:37 AM on May 24, 2013

I always maintain that, despite the ugly outside social pressure, we queer folk have a big advantage in the couples happiness race in that we get to completely sidestep the bizarro dualist brainwashing that straight people get (at least in the context of the relationship) in that we're both from Venus or both from Mars and thus don't get caught in all that interplanetary nonsense.
posted by sonascope at 6:52 AM on May 24, 2013 [10 favorites]

As someone mentioned above, I suspect it just comes down to kids.

Might be partly true, but many studies show that same sex parents are less likely to abuse their children, and that children of lesbian mothers have high levels of social, school/academic, and total competence and fewer social problems, rule-breaking, and aggressive and externalizing behavior compared with their age-matched counterparts. (cite)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:57 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

It turns out you need two dicks or no dicks for a happy marriage, half way doesn't work.
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

So you're saying that half-dicking marriage is also half-assing it?
posted by Lieber Frau at 7:22 AM on May 24, 2013

Lesbians also tended to discuss things endlessly

YES. YES WE DO. I THINK WE SHOULD PROCESS THIS A BIT.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:23 AM on May 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

It turns out you need two dicks or no dicks for a happy marriage, half way doesn't work.

Need plenty of assholes too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:51 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

many studies show that same sex parents are less likely to abuse their children

What? I read the article you cited, where does it say this?
posted by Salamander at 8:46 AM on May 24, 2013

Yeah, the best explanation seems to be that marriage is the default setting for heterosexuals, whereas it's fairly difficult for non-heterosexuals. So many of the former get married more-or-less automatically...or because of pregnancy...or because they want kids...that it's going to fairly hard to compare the two groups. Or, rather: lots of differences should be expected.

If the difference persists, however, after same-sex marriage becomes really common, then that will be pretty interesting. But given the little we know at this point, I expect the explanation will turn out to be boring.

My guess is that what different-sex couples have to learn from same-sex couples is this: don't make marriage the default state.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 9:01 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Well as a great big fat progressive I'd be okay with marriage becoming an out-dated concept but I'd also like to be able to visit my loved ones in the hospital soooooo.....
posted by The Whelk at 9:07 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

my husband and i are together 21 years next month. if we are indeed happier than many straight couples, i think it's because we realized pretty early on that, not being bound to the rules and customs of traditional marriage and straight relationships, the terms of our relationship have been completely customizable; and we've rejected entirely the idea that anyone not in our relationship need approve of them. we haven't had to play (or resist) the gender-role game of who should do what. we each get to take on the stuff we're good at, and if neither of us is good at it (e.g., fashion, home decorating, getting rich), it's not so important to us. we allow each other time to ease back and let the other one do a bit more for a while. we get to be buddies and co-adventurers. we get to look at the same dude and both find him attractive, and if it gets to that point, we can share him if we want him.

and plus the realization that our relationship is customizable extends to the understanding that life is customizable, which people tend to forget more than they remember. we catch ourselves now and then thinking about what we should do or where we should be at this point in our lives, and then we get to remind ourselves that we're not that kind of people.

i'm a great believer that being queer helps you have a certain insight and perspective on life that our straight buds don't easily come by; i think that insight gets stronger when we stop trying to imitate straight couples. it's awesome being officially married, but the resemblance need go no further than that.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 9:28 AM on May 24, 2013 [10 favorites]

I do think the gender essentializing is disappointing and a little weird, but hey, it's the Atlantic.

Relatedly, some recent studies suggest that perhaps two lesbian parents do an even better job of parenting than straight couples, on certain metrics.

So there, bigots. DYKES ALL UP IN YOUR CHILD REARING.
posted by nakedmolerats at 9:29 AM on May 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

I don't think it's so much that women might be more selective in a meaningful humanist way . Rather they are constantly assessing other people, relationships, territory, possessions and redefining "adequate" in some evo-psych keeping up with the Boneses kind of way. If we're going to get all generalization-y. I know this is a defensive characterization and it's a broad brush stroke, a roller really.
posted by lordaych at 10:50 AM on May 24, 2013

And it's equally easy to express that as "they don't settle unless they see no other choice, but if they do, they demand progress."
posted by lordaych at 10:54 AM on May 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

For the most part, fairly well-researched. However, one gender issue that was mostly elided (except for a brief aside in the video) is that not all same-SEX relationships are same-GENDER relationships. While initial socialization as male or female can be deep, nonetheless adult masculinity and femininity strongly affect relationships.
Years ago, my then-partner and I were recruited into the Gottman Institute 12-year study on same-sex couples. Within our first two interviews we sent them sideways - it hadn't occurred to the researchers that same-sex couples had gender differences that were more than clothing or hobbies! Our relationship did not last as long as the study (we were not included in the final data set), but the researches have gone on to look at cis- and trans- gender aspects of all sorts of relationships since then.

tl;dr: Same-sex/different-gendered couple behaviors are about midway between same-sex/same-gender couples, and different-sex/different-gender couples. I'm not sure there is much research published yet on different-sex/same-gender partnerships. Quel surprise, needs more research for specifics.

I agree with the idea that same-sex + same-gender relationships are a good counterfactual to received ideas about marriage. Who knows what we can learn from folks who are different, yet successful, at a relationship we're all seemingly familiar with?
posted by Dreidl at 11:15 AM on May 24, 2013

It sounds like the #1 reason same-sex relationships work is that "The man does this and the woman does THAT" aren't just by default expectations/rules/etc. They can negotiate. The woman doesn't fall into the same pits of "primary parent, chief cook and bottle washer" only because she's female and men got raised that that's how it works, no skin off their ass. And from what I've heard, it's an uphill battle trying to fight those expectations if you are female and in a heterosexual relationship.

Yup, wish I was gay.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:41 AM on May 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

So be nice to each other and don't have kids? This is what I'm getting here and I'm totally down with that.
posted by windykites at 7:23 AM on May 25, 2013 [1 favorite]