Traditional Chinese Folk Medicine vs. Animal Rights Groups
June 1, 2013 12:06 PM Subscribe
"...For China’s animal welfare advocates, the victory signaled the growing clout of a movement that is frequently derided as bourgeois, frivolous or worse. Its most vociferous opponents paint animal advocates as foreign-financed traitors who would do away with such hallowed Chinese traditions as dog meat hot pot, ivory carving and dried deer penis, consumed to increase virility." - Folk Remedy Extracted From Captive Bears Stirs Furor in China (SL NYTIMES)
Here is an interesting interview by Evan Osnos of the New Yorker discussing animal and environmental issues:
"N.G.O.s have had a limited ability to influence the decisions of average Chinese consumers. A group of advertisements by WildAid (including one where Yao Ming swears off shark-fin soup) have been successful and are important. But their benefits are offset by millions of Chinese just now becoming rich enough to buy exotic ingredients and medicines. The campaigns may ultimately prove more important by putting pressure on Beijing. The international community, for example, has successfully lobbied against Beijing legalizing the sale of bones from farmed tigers, a move many scientists argue would doom the world’s remaining wild tigers. In short, a government ban is more efficient than trying to get 1.3 billion people to change deep-rooted beliefs and traditions, but both are key in the long term." - If China Lives Like America Q&A
Previously (2006!)
Here is an interesting interview by Evan Osnos of the New Yorker discussing animal and environmental issues:
"N.G.O.s have had a limited ability to influence the decisions of average Chinese consumers. A group of advertisements by WildAid (including one where Yao Ming swears off shark-fin soup) have been successful and are important. But their benefits are offset by millions of Chinese just now becoming rich enough to buy exotic ingredients and medicines. The campaigns may ultimately prove more important by putting pressure on Beijing. The international community, for example, has successfully lobbied against Beijing legalizing the sale of bones from farmed tigers, a move many scientists argue would doom the world’s remaining wild tigers. In short, a government ban is more efficient than trying to get 1.3 billion people to change deep-rooted beliefs and traditions, but both are key in the long term." - If China Lives Like America Q&A
Previously (2006!)
[Chinese] Ban on rhino horns ignored
posted by filthy light thief at 12:26 PM on June 1, 2013
A six-month investigation by the group into 90 Chinese medicine shops revealed that at least half sold illegal rhino horns, hides and patent medicine.It sounds like a government ban might not be that effective after all.
...
''What is disturbing is that the Agriculture and Fisheries Department is claiming they strictly enforce the law. We see very clearly that they don't,'' [said David Currey, Executive Director of the Environmental Investigation Agency group]
...
Possession of rhino products has been illegal in Hong Kong since 1989. Violations mean a fine of up to $25,000 for a first offence, and $50,000 and six months' jail for a second.
But [the agency's Hong Kong representative, Heena Patel] said the strict fines had never been applied.
She said the last criminal prosecution in Hong Kong regarding the illegal trade was in 1989 where 14 horns were netted, but the case was thrown out of court.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:26 PM on June 1, 2013
It's goddamn communist China, where money runs the show more than any other capitalist nation currently in existence, why is anyone surprised? You cannot point to any corner of that nation without showing the corruption that exists from top to bottom.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:56 PM on June 1, 2013
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 12:56 PM on June 1, 2013
I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons, but the extra squeamishness about dog meat never made sense to me.
posted by NortonDC at 12:58 PM on June 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by NortonDC at 12:58 PM on June 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Glad to see the world changing. Many of my (Canadian) friends dismiss Western medicine is a giant swindle and push Chinese herbal treatments as the alternative. The fact that herbalists treat penis problems with dried penises (or other things that resemble penises) really undercuts confidence in the theory behind it all.
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:29 PM on June 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:29 PM on June 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
What is the percentage of species of animals that are on the endangered list because somewhere, an Asian man wants to eat it's wang?
posted by BobFrapples at 1:33 PM on June 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by BobFrapples at 1:33 PM on June 1, 2013 [4 favorites]
A friend of mine who recently was in China last summer for a book tour, said that there is currently a lot of momentum for protecting animals there. His project was initiated as in an effort to save rare Asiatic Black Bears from being farmed under terrible conditions, and hunted to extinction for their gall bladders. The book he illustrated was about a bear called Moon Bear.
Due to pressure from the people a farm was shut down and all the bears were sent by train to a sanctuary. The trip was well publicized. One bear got sick on the trip, so the train stopped in a town with a hospital and they operated on the bear, successfully. Everyone came to see the event from nearby towns. The story was viral.
The younger generation appears to be rethinking some of the traditional medicines that involve killing animals. Certainly there are many substitutes to strengthen men's kidney (virility meds) that do not require killing animals or are herbal. In NYC most herbalists do not prescribe animal products, but prescribe herbs, even though there is pressure from the older men to get seahorse, or dried penis of some animal.. I think it is more of a generational thing than anything, and will change.
posted by snaparapans at 1:38 PM on June 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Due to pressure from the people a farm was shut down and all the bears were sent by train to a sanctuary. The trip was well publicized. One bear got sick on the trip, so the train stopped in a town with a hospital and they operated on the bear, successfully. Everyone came to see the event from nearby towns. The story was viral.
The younger generation appears to be rethinking some of the traditional medicines that involve killing animals. Certainly there are many substitutes to strengthen men's kidney (virility meds) that do not require killing animals or are herbal. In NYC most herbalists do not prescribe animal products, but prescribe herbs, even though there is pressure from the older men to get seahorse, or dried penis of some animal.. I think it is more of a generational thing than anything, and will change.
posted by snaparapans at 1:38 PM on June 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't think the animal rights groups are a foreign financed plot to cause trouble, but I do sometimes suspect they're being used as a (tacitly government condoned) safety valve for the bigger issues of human, economic, and environmental rights.
And if it's illegal, how would you know what you're getting is real rhino horn anyways? Isn't it just easier to counterfeit the stuff?
posted by FJT at 2:12 PM on June 1, 2013
And if it's illegal, how would you know what you're getting is real rhino horn anyways? Isn't it just easier to counterfeit the stuff?
posted by FJT at 2:12 PM on June 1, 2013
BobFrapples: "What is the percentage of species of animals that are on the endangered list because somewhere, an Asian man wants to eat it's wang?"
I'm not sure there is a charitable reading of your comment that isn't basically racist. The main link in this FPP is about Chinese animal rights groups protesting traditional Chinese medicine. So we have news that there's beginnings of a grassroots shift in culture, and you joke about Asian men eating penis. Cool story bro.
posted by danny the boy at 4:05 PM on June 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
I'm not sure there is a charitable reading of your comment that isn't basically racist. The main link in this FPP is about Chinese animal rights groups protesting traditional Chinese medicine. So we have news that there's beginnings of a grassroots shift in culture, and you joke about Asian men eating penis. Cool story bro.
posted by danny the boy at 4:05 PM on June 1, 2013 [6 favorites]
I went to an Asian antiques auction in the USA last year. An anonymous bidder from China bought a 200 year old rhino horn for tens of thousands of dollars. These guys may be rich, but anyone who thinks that eating powdered compressed 200 year old rhinoceros keratin is going to fix their own non-functional organs is an imbecile. Perhaps open mockery is the best way to proceed here.
"The idea that eating things that are long will make your penis work better makes no more sense than sticking donuts into your gas tank so you won't get a flat tire."
posted by 1adam12 at 4:12 PM on June 1, 2013
"The idea that eating things that are long will make your penis work better makes no more sense than sticking donuts into your gas tank so you won't get a flat tire."
posted by 1adam12 at 4:12 PM on June 1, 2013
When I was travelling in Vietnam a little more than a year ago I stayed in a hotel in a mountain town in the north. The hotel itself seemed to be a converted villa, maybe previously owned by a government official or somesuch. Very much stood out among the rest of the buildings nearby. The garden in the rear was a private zoo that had seen much better days.
Once I got settled the local I was travelling with asked me if I had seen the hotel's bear. The... what?
In a small cage on the corner of the property was a small black lump.
He explained that this was a bear that was once farmed for it's gall bladder bile, but that practice had been outlawed. There was nowhere for them to go, the zoos didn't want them, and owners were required to care for the animals as long as they lived.
It was pretty heartbreaking.
posted by danny the boy at 4:17 PM on June 1, 2013
Once I got settled the local I was travelling with asked me if I had seen the hotel's bear. The... what?
In a small cage on the corner of the property was a small black lump.
He explained that this was a bear that was once farmed for it's gall bladder bile, but that practice had been outlawed. There was nowhere for them to go, the zoos didn't want them, and owners were required to care for the animals as long as they lived.
It was pretty heartbreaking.
posted by danny the boy at 4:17 PM on June 1, 2013
If you put the bear on a bicycle and race it with a monkey, the bile gets magical powers.
posted by Renoroc at 4:45 PM on June 1, 2013
posted by Renoroc at 4:45 PM on June 1, 2013
The body count for African rhinos killed for their horns is approaching crisis proportions, according to the latest figures released by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN).
Is there any possible way to avoid the looming extinction of the rhino, given the widespread belief in the medicinal value of their horns, and Capitalism?
posted by sneebler at 4:56 PM on June 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
South African game reserve poisons rhino's horns to prevent poaching
A good start as far as I'm concerned, can we poison shark fin next please?
posted by 445supermag at 5:13 PM on June 1, 2013
A good start as far as I'm concerned, can we poison shark fin next please?
posted by 445supermag at 5:13 PM on June 1, 2013
Given that this stuff doesn't actually work, why does anyone actually bother poaching or harvesting the real thing? It's not like there's some functional regulatory industry ensuring that your corner pharmacy is selling 100% genuine bear bile.
posted by nev at 5:16 PM on June 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by nev at 5:16 PM on June 1, 2013 [3 favorites]
Sneebler, that's not any fault of capitalism - humanity has shown throughout history that it will exploit any resource until it runs out.
posted by Therapeutic Amputations at 7:03 PM on June 1, 2013
posted by Therapeutic Amputations at 7:03 PM on June 1, 2013
"It's goddamn communist China, where money runs the show more than any other capitalist nation currently in existence,"
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 8:56
More than America?
"I'm not sure there is a charitable reading of your comment that isn't basically racist... and you joke about Asian men eating penis. Cool story bro.
posted by danny the boy
Deer Penis
Tiger Penis
Animal Parts and Chinese Medicine
List of trad Chinese Medicines
It is hardly racist to call people out for eating endangered animal parts, or even things that you find disgusting.
posted by marienbad at 6:31 AM on June 2, 2013
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 8:56
More than America?
"I'm not sure there is a charitable reading of your comment that isn't basically racist... and you joke about Asian men eating penis. Cool story bro.
posted by danny the boy
Deer Penis
Tiger Penis
Animal Parts and Chinese Medicine
List of trad Chinese Medicines
It is hardly racist to call people out for eating endangered animal parts, or even things that you find disgusting.
posted by marienbad at 6:31 AM on June 2, 2013
Nevertheless, Capitalism values profit over education (about biology, for example) and specifically seeks to avoid regulation of profitable supply chains. Hence the steady decline in species with real or imagined value to humans, with no thought for the potential future value of those species. (I'm imagining a future where humans realise they live on a small planet, and choose to conserve biological systems for their own sake, or even because sustainability is a function of diversity.)
posted by sneebler at 7:25 AM on June 2, 2013
posted by sneebler at 7:25 AM on June 2, 2013
It is hardly racist to call people out for eating endangered animal parts, or even things that you find disgusting.
posted by marienbad at 9:31 AM on June 2 [+] [!]
Well, look, it's frankly a disgusting racist 'joke' based on an Ethnic stereotype.
An ethnic stereotype is a simplified and often misleading representation of an ethnic group, composed of what are thought to be typical characteristics of members of a given ethnic group. These images of a particular group are used to communicate underlying messages about status, society and cultural norms.
How many Asian men do you think are eating these things?
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:08 AM on June 2, 2013
posted by marienbad at 9:31 AM on June 2 [+] [!]
Well, look, it's frankly a disgusting racist 'joke' based on an Ethnic stereotype.
An ethnic stereotype is a simplified and often misleading representation of an ethnic group, composed of what are thought to be typical characteristics of members of a given ethnic group. These images of a particular group are used to communicate underlying messages about status, society and cultural norms.
How many Asian men do you think are eating these things?
posted by Comrade_robot at 8:08 AM on June 2, 2013
This is one of the many debates where I hate both sides equally.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:29 PM on June 2, 2013
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:29 PM on June 2, 2013
It is hardly racist to call people out for eating endangered animal parts, or even things that you find disgusting.
The problem isn't that someone wants to eat an animal's penis. Modern meat processing methods are big on using nearly every part of the animal, so somehow some way most people are going to consume it. So, it's culturally insensitive and possibly even hypocritical to call out someone for eating something just because you find it disgusting.
posted by FJT at 7:37 PM on June 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
The problem isn't that someone wants to eat an animal's penis. Modern meat processing methods are big on using nearly every part of the animal, so somehow some way most people are going to consume it. So, it's culturally insensitive and possibly even hypocritical to call out someone for eating something just because you find it disgusting.
posted by FJT at 7:37 PM on June 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm a vegetarian for ethical reasons, but the extra squeamishness about dog meat never made sense to me.
Exactly! Meat is meat.
The fact that herbalists treat penis problems with dried penises (or other things that resemble penises) really undercuts confidence in the theory behind it all.
It fits The LAW OF ASSOCIATION, at least, and probably other magical laws.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 8:21 PM on June 2, 2013
« Older Anyone can make a t-shirt with Zazzle! | "We are star stuff which has taken its destiny... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by filthy light thief at 12:18 PM on June 1, 2013