The Trouble With Islam (According to Tony)
June 11, 2013 1:47 PM   Subscribe

"I am afraid that the problematic strain within Islam is not the province of a few extremists. It has at its heart a view of religion – and of the relationship between religion and politics – that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies. At the extreme end of the spectrum are terrorists, but the worldview goes deeper and wider than it is comfortable for us to admit. So, by and large, we don’t admit it." - (byline) Tony Blair was Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1997 to 2007. Since leaving office, he has founded the Tony Blair Faith Foundation and the Faith and Globalization Initiative.
posted by oneswellfoop (18 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: Short provocative op-ed on contentious subject by contentious figure is really not great post material. -- cortex



 
Beams, Motes, Eyes, etc.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:48 PM on June 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


Today's Bible reading: Galatians 6

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."
posted by chavenet at 1:53 PM on June 11, 2013


Blair the Crusader. Sponsored by Land Rover no doubt.
posted by adamvasco at 1:54 PM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


It has at its heart a view of religion – and of the relationship between religion and politics – that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies

which is not exclusive to Islam. Relevant Christopher Hitchens—Tony Blair debate.
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 1:54 PM on June 11, 2013


Saying there's a problem within Islam is like saying Shinto caused Japan to attack Pearl Harbor.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:55 PM on June 11, 2013 [6 favorites]


I think it would help if the United States stopped subsidizing apartheid.
posted by wrapper at 1:55 PM on June 11, 2013 [3 favorites]


From right before the quote in the post:
There is not a problem with Islam. For those of us who have studied it, there is no doubt about its true and peaceful nature. There is not a problem with Muslims in general. Most in Britain are horrified at Rigby’s murder.

But there is a problem within Islam, and we have to put it on the table and be honest about it. There are, of course, Christian extremists and Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu ones. But I am afraid the problematic ...
(emphasis in the original).

Just wanted to make sure there was a little more context available for those who may not carefully peruse the article.
posted by kiltedtaco at 1:56 PM on June 11, 2013 [9 favorites]


I don't know. The article makes it clear that perhaps the given quote is out of context.

For instance he writes: "There is not a problem with Islam. For those of us who have studied it, there is no doubt about its true and peaceful nature. There is not a problem with Muslims in general. Most in Britain are horrified at Rigby’s murder. "

Maybe he's toeing a really thin line between saying the problem is not with Islam, but still wanting to say that there's something deeper going on.

On preview: kiltedtaco has it.
posted by SollosQ at 1:57 PM on June 11, 2013


There is not a problem with Christianity. For those of us who have studied it, there is no doubt about its true and peaceful nature. There is not a problem with Christians in general. Most Christians would be horrified at the toll two wars have taken on the Iraqi and Afghani peoples, if the US/UK news media reported it.

But there is a problem within Christianity, and we have to put it on the table and be honest about it. There are, of course, Islamic extremists and Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu ones. But I am afraid that the problematic strain within Christianity is not the province of a few extremists. It has at its heart a view of religion – and of the relationship between religion and politics – that is not compatible with pluralistic, liberal, open-minded societies. At the extreme end of the spectrum are neocons, but the worldview goes deeper and wider than it is comfortable for us to admit. So, by and large, we don’t admit it.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:57 PM on June 11, 2013 [15 favorites]


I always suspected there was more to Huntingdon than met the eye (mote, beam, etc.)
posted by temporicide at 1:58 PM on June 11, 2013


The long and hard conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq have made Western powers wary of foreign intervention. But we should never forget why these conflicts were long and hard: we allowed failed states to come into being.


Pot calling the kettle black...
posted by QueerAngel28 at 1:58 PM on June 11, 2013


I'd also point out that making the title "trouble with Islam" is a questionable thing to do when Blair is quite clear about saying "within Islam".
posted by kiltedtaco at 1:58 PM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


for those who may not carefully peruse the article

Such people would never betray their ignorance by commenting without reading, right?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:58 PM on June 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


But there are two views of its significance. One is that it was an act by crazy people, motivated in this case by a perverted notion of Islam, but of no broader significance. Crazy people do crazy things, so don’t overreact. The other view is that the ideology that inspired the murder of Rigby is profoundly dangerous.

There is also the third view, espoused by that crazy person in Woolwich himself, which is that such men are motivated by good-old secular feelings of revenge. What was it he said? "I am sorry women had to see that, but women and children in my country see this every day from your soldiers."

Tony Blair would do well to STFU, but then again he can hardly sully his reputation any more than it is.
posted by three blind mice at 1:59 PM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


"The Trouble With Islam" is the title given the op-ed by Project Syndicate, one must assume NOT over his objection...
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:03 PM on June 11, 2013


I always liked Blair. Always willing to go out on a limb and flesh out his ideas. Trying to break bread between two seemingly irreconcilable worlds with superbly obtuse comments like, "Our task is to help sow the seeds of reconciliation and peace. But clearing the ground for peace is not always peaceful."

Always more of a policy explainer than a leader, and yet not really as much a rigorous philosopher as say, an enthusiastic undergraduate philosophy major. The children are the answer. *golf clap*
posted by phaedon at 2:03 PM on June 11, 2013


(Again, but now three blind mice with the same quote...)

"One is that it was an act by crazy people, motivated in this case by a perverted notion of Islam, but of no broader significance. Crazy people do crazy things, so don’t overreact. The other view is that the ideology that inspired the murder of Rigby is profoundly dangerous."

I question if there really are two views. I don't think people strictly think the former, that this was a one-off, particular instance of a crazy person. Said person could have acted individually, through self-radicalization, but yet still represent a broader, significant dangerous ideology (which turns out to be a perversion of Islam, or some sort of detached ideology which you cannot then foist upon Islam itself).

I mention this, because I worry if Blair wanting to draw a distinction, betrays some troubling view of his. Though I don't have any reason to think so.
posted by SollosQ at 2:04 PM on June 11, 2013


The Trouble Within Islam is very different from "The trouble with islam according to tony".

The center of the article specificially says :

There is not a problem with Islam. For those of us who have studied it, there is no doubt about its true and peaceful nature. There is not a problem with Muslims in general. Most in Britain are horrified at Rigby’s murder.

But there is a problem within Islam, and we have to put it on the table and be honest about it. There are, of course, Christian extremists and Jewish, Buddhist, and Hindu ones. But I am afraid the problematic ...


I have no like for B.Liar, but this is just a noisy, inflammatory framing of a carefully written article. Flagged.
posted by lalochezia at 2:05 PM on June 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


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