GCHQ intercepted delegates' communications at G20 summit
June 17, 2013 4:51 AM   Subscribe

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has revealed that GCHQ engaged in extensive surveillance of delegates to the 2009 G20 meeting in London. (previously)

Apparently GCHQ had 45 analysts working with email and phone data they obtained through interception and hacking into delegates' computers and smartphones, as well as internet cafes GCHQ had specially set up. The NSA provided them with access to Dmitry Medvedev's satellite links to Moscow.

Related : The 39th G8 Summit starts today at the Lough Erne Resort in Northern Ireland.
posted by jeffburdges (21 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: There are four open threads on Snowden etc., and this latest news has already been brought up a here. Let's try to keep the conversation a little bit contained -- taz



 
As an aside, Snowden unrelated claims about the NSA targeting Americans were partially confirmed over the weekend by Rep. Jerrold Nadler.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:57 AM on June 17, 2013


Isn't it expected that intelligence agencies spy on foreign governments? Isn't this indeed what they are supposed to do?
posted by three blind mice at 5:00 AM on June 17, 2013


They are supposed to not get caught.
posted by unSane at 5:03 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I thought we were supposed to spy on our enemies and collaborate and trust our allies. Looks like "No way Jose"; the neo-liberal every-man-for-themselves ethos has spread to nation-states now.

And spying on China? don't they hold masses of US debt? Shurely Shome Mishtake?

Looks like the elite have learnt from the past: no longer will people be able to collaborate in secrecy to oppose them, now their every move and communication will be monitered. How big are those "data centres" again?
posted by marienbad at 5:06 AM on June 17, 2013


I thought we were supposed to spy on our enemies and collaborate and trust our allies.

America doesn't have friends, Kissinger said. America has interests.
posted by mhoye at 5:07 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


This whole "aren't we all about spying on each other" approach seems, to me, very similar to "well, if we could convince a few nutters to knock down a couple of your office buildings, why wouldn't we?". Of course, some people get all grumpy about that, but it's just the another extension of the great game.
posted by pompomtom at 5:11 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


Isn't it expected that intelligence agencies spy on foreign governments? Isn't this indeed what they are supposed to do?

Yes, I thought it was a routine action, that others countries spy on all other countries, even their allies and that every country has a plan for waging war on every other country, including their allies. Snowden seems to be operating in his world, where well established procedures and actions are considered horrible secrets that must be exposed. This comparison of him and Daniel Elsburg was enlightening, particularly for the placement of Snowden within a particular class of people that probably explains his hero worship among certain segments of the population.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:13 AM on June 17, 2013


America doesn't have friends, Kissinger said. America has interests.

I can't read that quote without hearing Tom Waits in my head.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:13 AM on June 17, 2013


I swear there were reports about this same thing happening during the W Bush years.
posted by schoolgirl report at 5:15 AM on June 17, 2013


Yes, I thought it was a routine action, that others countries spy on all other countries, even their allies and that every country has a plan for waging war on every other country, including their allies.

I don't know, from my particular slice of American cultural intake, it feels like something you'd expect in some Eastern Bloc country before the fall of the Soviet Union, not something you'd see in the West. Perhaps that's just a function of the biases of the authors I've read.
posted by indubitable at 5:18 AM on June 17, 2013


They are supposed to not get caught.

Precisely. And helping them get caught doing their proper job doesn't put Snowden in the same sort of patriotic league as exposing the NSA's spying on American citizens.

This particular revelation seems like a self-inflicted wound for Snowden.
posted by three blind mice at 5:19 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't know, from my particular slice of American cultural intake, it feels like something you'd expect in some Eastern Bloc country before the fall of the Soviet Union, not something you'd see in the West. Perhaps that's just a function of the biases of the authors I've read.

I think that's what you've been reading. I mean, I'm pretty sure it happens Tom Clancy novels, where no upstanding (inevitably Republican) American would ever do wrong.
posted by hoyland at 5:19 AM on June 17, 2013


three blind mice: "Isn't it expected that intelligence agencies spy on foreign governments? Isn't this indeed what they are supposed to do?"

I am under the impression that it's just Good Sportspersonship to not spy on diplomats, because you don't want them spying on your diplomats.

Ooops!! Expect the life of your typical overseas State Department employee to get significantly more difficult now. Sorry, folks (not really ... now we know what the Turkish ambassador ate for breakfast).
posted by barnacles at 5:20 AM on June 17, 2013


A lot of people are using this tread as a chance to rail against American intelligence services, when this new piece of information is more substantially about the British GCHQ services.

If you think that the US and Britain are alone in their attempts to compromise other nations' lines of communication, you're very sorely mistaken.
posted by samofidelis at 5:24 AM on June 17, 2013


I thought we were supposed to spy on our enemies and collaborate and trust our allies. Looks like "No way Jose"; the neo-liberal every-man-for-themselves ethos has spread to nation-states now.

Tapping diplomatic communications is bad news -- and, in fact, illegal in most countries by treaty.

This particular revelation seems like a self-inflicted wound for Snowden.

Between this and previous revelations about NSA/GCHQ exchanges, it just took DC and London out of the business of hosting these sort of meetings. That's not an own goal.
posted by eriko at 5:24 AM on June 17, 2013 [2 favorites]


The DGSE used to insert bugs into business/first class Air France aircraft seats to capture business information that could be used for France's economic benefit. A declassified 1987 CIA report showed that 80% of Japan's intelligence spend was on stealing economic advantages from the USA. GCHQ and it's forerunner GC&CS have been doing this since they started. BP, British Airways, British Aerospace and numerous other UK businesses have benefitted from interception of "secret" business information. If it has the word "British" in front of it, chances are they've had some lovely man in a pinstripe suit hand over a manilla folder full of confidential financial or business data.

Hell, Moses sent a bunch of guys into Canaan to assess the economic value of the country. Apparently those dirty spies found milk AND honey!!!
posted by longbaugh at 5:24 AM on June 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


As an aside, Snowden unrelated claims about the NSA targeting Americans were partially confirmed over the weekend by Rep. Jerrold Nadler.

Well, kinda, not really.

This is a case of imprecise language from a legislator, and some flubbed reporting by Declan McCullagh.
posted by to sir with millipedes at 5:25 AM on June 17, 2013


Sigh... in my day there would be a splash screen in front of the game that said 'Cracked by Elite Haxxor!' Now the elite hackers make power point presentations to list their exploits.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:26 AM on June 17, 2013


America doesn't have friends, Kissinger said. America has interests.

I know how fun it is to suppose that cynical realpolitik was invented by 20th century Americans, but if Kissinger said that, he was quoting is a much earlier, and British, politician.
posted by spaltavian at 5:27 AM on June 17, 2013


Snowden seems to be operating in his world, where well established procedures and actions are considered horrible secrets that must be exposed.

Given that you don't know Snowden personally, haven't been privy to what he's seen, and don't know what other information is forthcoming, your conclusion might be a weensy bit premature.

I would assume part of the reason for this "revelation" is because of the timing of the current G8 summit. It's not intended to inform diplomats of the existence of espionage, it's intended to inform them of the EXTENT of the espionage.

From the first article linked:

The revelation comes as Britain prepares to host another summit on Monday – for the G8 nations, all of whom attended the 2009 meetings which were the object of the systematic spying. It is likely to lead to some tension among visiting delegates who will want the prime minister to explain whether they were targets in 2009 and whether the exercise is to be repeated this week.
posted by dubold at 5:29 AM on June 17, 2013


Another Monday, another surveillance revelation. The Guardian seems to be doing a good job of keeping the issue at the top of consecutive new cycles.
posted by klarck at 5:29 AM on June 17, 2013


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