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Fixed that for you, Alanis
July 16, 2013 7:20 AM   Subscribe

It's finally Ironic. Rachael Hurwitz fixes the lyrics to Alanis Morisette's "Ironic" to make them, y'know, actually ironic. (SLYT.)
posted by dnash (91 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite

 
Wouldn't it also be ironic if she failed? Maybe more so?
posted by LionIndex at 7:21 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I predict arguments about the definition of ironic.
posted by chavenet at 7:23 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]


I do love "It's like a black fly in your chardonnay....that was specifically purchased....to repel black flies"
posted by mcstayinskool at 7:25 AM on July 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


I can't believe it's really been eighteen years since people first started making this joke.
posted by pipeski at 7:28 AM on July 16, 2013 [21 favorites]


“From even the greatest of horrors irony is seldom absent.” - H.P. Lovecraft
posted by fairmettle at 7:29 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I can't believe it's really been eighteen years since people first started making this joke.


*sniff* they grow up so fast!
posted by Tomorrowful at 7:30 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I am so very, very tired of people obsessing over the incorrectness of this song.
posted by royalsong at 7:30 AM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


I am sitting here quietly waiting for the people who will come in to say language is a living thing and it's ok because there is no correct way to use the word ironic.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:31 AM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh that was close.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:31 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Look, either the original lacked all irony and was ironic for that reason (which I certainly don't put past morisette given the thick sarcasm I hear in songs like head over feet) - or else it was cosmic irony. Either way the song works. Simple as that.
posted by shivohum at 7:32 AM on July 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


That was both dreadful and untimely.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 7:32 AM on July 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


Now I want to hear a version done in British humor called "It's funny, innit?"
posted by iamkimiam at 7:38 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


...but Ironic!
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:39 AM on July 16, 2013


I guess irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.
posted by TheAlarminglySwollenFinger at 7:41 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I am so very, very tired of people obsessing over the incorrectness of this song.

Intelligent woman strongly expressing her emotion, using clever wordplay in a catchy pop song. Includes colloquial shades of word ironic.

Nerds pounce.

Over and over.

For 18 years.

Isn't it ironic how the ostensibly downtrodden lower echelon in the high school hierarchy is so ready to attack others?

Don't you think?
posted by Celsius1414 at 7:42 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


I can't believe it's really been eighteen years since people first started making this joke.

I know, it seems much longer.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:42 AM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


"Define irony."

"Irony. Uh ... Irony. It's a noun. It's when something is ... ironic. It's, uh ... well, I can't really define irony, but I know it when I see it!"

-- Reality Bites
posted by zooropa at 7:48 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Get her a new pharmacist while you're at it
posted by thelonius at 7:49 AM on July 16, 2013


I am possibly going to be mocked for this, but in a bit of synchronicity about an hour ago I caught You Oughta Know on the radio as I was driving home from work, and I was thinking it's a much better song than I thought when it was new. This has to mean something, possibly that I am now Old, but there you have it.
posted by Dr Dracator at 7:49 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


I caught You Oughta Know on the radio... and I was thinking it's a much better song than I thought when it was new. This has to mean something, possibly that I am now Old

Dementia.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Irony would be this thread exists for the purpose of discussing irony and the video of FPP, and the rest of this thread instead is devoted to discussion of scanning cats. Moreover, as a result the comments in the thread wind up mostly deleted by the mods because any and all future discussion is not on topic because, as stated the comments forward are about scanning cats.
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:52 AM on July 16, 2013


Isn't it ironic how the ostensibly downtrodden lower echelon in the high school hierarchy is so ready to attack others?

Don't you think?


Garden-variety hypocrisy. It could be ironic if we only did it to hide our true feelings of love and devotion.
posted by wobh at 7:57 AM on July 16, 2013


Now I want to hear a version done in British humor called "It's funny, innit?"

I think the British equivalent would be a song called Literally in which the singer literally sings about literal things that are literally happening to them.
posted by permafrost at 7:58 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Wow, earlier today I made a comment about how I wished certain people would try to understand irony. And now this. How ironic!

Or at least Alanis would probably think so.
posted by Decani at 8:01 AM on July 16, 2013


I can't believe it's really been eighteen years since people first started making this joke.

For reference, this is like pedants in 1985 making fun of Petula Clark because nobody in their right mind really sleeps in the subway, much less stands in the pourin' rain -- and anyhow Petula has hardly heard it all a million times before.

For nearly two decades.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:05 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


It's ironic that guy took so long to bake the cake, and he doesn't even know HOW to bake a cake, and then he left it out in the rain.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:09 AM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


My person favorite pop-culture reference to irony is courtesy of Steven Martin in the movie Roxanne (in which he plays the fire chief of a mountain town): "Irony! Oh, no, we don't get that here. See, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony's not really a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was tired of being stared at."
posted by Annie Savoy at 8:09 AM on July 16, 2013 [21 favorites]


In the end, this is all Dave Coulier's fault.
posted by Talez at 8:11 AM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


Has Alanis ever explained what she was trying to say? Was this song really meta irony?
posted by blurker at 8:13 AM on July 16, 2013


DIAL 'I" FOR IRONY

damn I miss Phil Hartman
posted by thelonius at 8:15 AM on July 16, 2013


Baguette.
posted by jbickers at 8:16 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Steven Martin?
posted by ODiV at 8:17 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think the British equivalent would be a song called Literally in which the singer literally sings about literal things that are literally happening to them.

Post-apocalyptic Randy Newman already has you covered on that one.
posted by Naberius at 8:20 AM on July 16, 2013


"Define irony."

I will let Blackadder do that.
posted by DreamerFi at 8:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Did the original song actually cause this song?

Correlation and causation, people.

Discuss.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:25 AM on July 16, 2013


And yet, in the end, aren't WE the ironic ones?
posted by blue_beetle at 8:26 AM on July 16, 2013


So, it's like a metaphor of the original song?
posted by orme at 8:27 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


This was kind of neat. Except they could have tried harder by writing more lyrics, and the video component is...just totally weird. But I haven't watched a music video in probably fifteen years, and my standard for recollection is Tool's "Sober."
posted by cribcage at 8:37 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think I've worked out how people do this impossible seeming thing. It's a really clever literate trick, so pardon me if I get some of these a bit wrong. It shouldn't matter though, as this was the funniest joke of 1998, and things can't have changed too much.

An old man turned ninety-eight He won the lottery and died the next day OF LOTTERY ALLERGIES
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay WHICH WAS CALLED "BLACK FLY" CHARDONNAY
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late BECAUSE YOUR CRIME WAS TO SHORTEN THE MINUTE
It's like rain on your wedding day TO THOR THE GOD OF THUNDER
It's a free ride when you've already paid THE POSTAGE WHEN YOU BOUGHT THAT BOOK ABOUT GETTING FREE RIDES
It's the good advice that you just didn't take ABOUT TAKING GOOD ADVICE
A traffic jam when you're already late TO A "DESIGN A TRAFFIC JAM" COMPETITION
A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break IN YOUR JOB MAKING NO SMOKING SIGNS
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife WHICH YOU THEN NEED TO MAKE A SPOON.

I'm not sure I nailed it with all of them.
posted by zoo at 8:42 AM on July 16, 2013 [17 favorites]


I don't think these edits make the lyrics more ironic. They already were plenty ironic. A place known not to rain? Your wedding!

It's a death row pardon two minutes too late BECAUSE YOUR CRIME WAS TO SHORTEN THE MINUTE

That was my favorite.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:44 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Ed Byrne already covered this a few year's back.
posted by Happy Dave at 8:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Irony (used in the sense most people are referring to here, there are a couple of other related but non-identical meanings) is best defined as an incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result.

It does not, actually, have to be super-duper special double extra irony to count as irony.

The fact that most people who are railing against the lack of irony in the original song clearly do not understand the meaning of irony is pretty damn ...

Depressing.
posted by kyrademon at 8:54 AM on July 16, 2013 [8 favorites]


People love pointing things out.
posted by PHINC at 8:55 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Isn't it ironic how the ostensibly downtrodden lower echelon in the high school hierarchy is so ready to attack others?

She must pay the irony price.
posted by Flashman at 8:57 AM on July 16, 2013 [10 favorites]


People love pointing things out.

That is correct.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:57 AM on July 16, 2013 [26 favorites]


I'm surprised that nobody has posted this yet: That's Not Ironic!

And of course, wisdom via Uncle George:

"Irony deals with opposites; it has nothing to do with coincidence. If two baseball players from the same hometown, on different teams, receive the same uniform number, it is not ironic. It is a coincidence. If Barry Bonds attains lifetime statistics identical to his father’s it will not be ironic. It will be a coincidence. Irony is 'a state of affairs that is the reverse of what was to be expected; a result opposite to and in mockery of the appropriate result.' For instance:

1. If a diabetic, on his way to buy insulin, is killed by a runaway truck, he is the victim of an accident. If the truck was delivering sugar, he is the victim of an oddly poetic coincidence. But if the truck was delivering insulin, ah! Then he is the victim of an irony.

2. If a Kurd, after surviving bloody battle with Saddam Hussein’s army and a long, difficult escape through the mountains, is crushed and killed by a parachute drop of humanitarian aid, that, my friend, is irony writ large.

3. Darryl Stingley, the pro football player, was paralyzed after a brutal hit by Jack Tatum. Now Darryl Stingley’s son plays football, and if the son should become paralyzed while playing, it will not be ironic. It will be coincidental. If Darryl Stingley’s son paralyzes someone else, that will be closer to ironic. If he paralyzes Jack Tatum’s son that will be precisely ironic."

posted by zooropa at 9:05 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


Cannot... favorite.. Greg_Ace's comment... enough.

Anyway.

We've really got to that age haven't we, where we see someone create something, and we say something like "This is nothing new. We had this guy back in our day and we called him James Dean."

or

"Fast paced smart-alek dialog hey. Jimmy Cagney did that too, and that was in 1958."

We've got to the age where we see people accidently copying things from when we were young, but we haven't got to the age where we realise that this happens, and we shouldn't spoil anyones fun by bringing up the fact that we did that thing too. We told that joke, yes and we sang that song about sex and dancing and getting drunk too."

Now shh. Let the young ones have their fun.
posted by zoo at 9:07 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Not to mention all the abuse I got for posting the Ed Byrnes routine back in 2007. To be fair to Ed, he originally did that material back in the 90s.
posted by w0mbat at 9:10 AM on July 16, 2013


We've got to the age where we see people accidently copying things from when we were young, but we haven't got to the age where we realise that this happens, and we shouldn't spoil anyones fun by bringing up the fact that we did that thing too. We told that joke, yes and we sang that song about sex and dancing and getting drunk too."

Now shh. Let the young ones have their fun.


Yes, but don't you see it's our job to be the grumpy spoilsports so the kids have something to rebel against?
posted by entropicamericana at 9:17 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's a death row pardon two minutes too late BECAUSE YOUR CRIME WAS TO SHORTEN THE MINUTE

This is one of my favorite Twilight Zone episodes.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


My favorite Alanis Morrissete performance is her role as God in Dogma.
posted by Gelatin at 9:25 AM on July 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


Almost a haiku.

People love pointing things out.

That is correct.

posted by iamkimiam at 9:27 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Someone pointed out,
"People love pointing things out."
That is correct, sir.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:43 AM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


The irony is that Greg_Ace has no fingers.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:49 AM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]


The song is just asking for clarification on what is and isn't ironic. I mean the lyric isn't "It's ironic" it's "Isn't it ironic"
posted by zeoslap at 9:57 AM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]


I enjoyed both this and the original! I am large! I contain multitudes!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:59 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Intelligent woman strongly expressing her emotion, using clever wordplay in a catchy pop song.

FTFY.
posted by grubi at 10:21 AM on July 16, 2013


The Parthenon is a Doric peripteral temple, yet it features a continuous sculpted frieze.

Isn't that ionic?
posted by ericbop at 10:21 AM on July 16, 2013 [9 favorites]


Intelligent woman strongly expressing her emotion, using clever wordplay in a catchy pop song.

FTFY.


You're really going to fix "using clever wordplay" with an Internet memecronym?
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:28 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


The song is just asking for clarification on what is and isn't ironic. I mean the lyric isn't "It's ironic" it's "Isn't it ironic"

This sounds like a job for NONONONONO cat.
posted by iamkimiam at 10:31 AM on July 16, 2013


You're really going to fix "using clever wordplay" with an Internet memecronym?

Yes. I don't think she used clever wordplay. And the "memecronym" is also the title of this post. So....

yes.
posted by grubi at 10:38 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


OK, that makes more sense.

But I'm totally calling second use of "memecronym" ever.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:42 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I will grant that she is an intelligent woman, and that most of the rest of that album is pretty great (at least for what it is, which is extraordinarily of it's own time) but my problem with that song is that misuse of the word "irony" is like 3rd or 4th down on why it infuriates me.

You say she's expressing her emotion? Fine. What emotion? What the sweet fuck is that song supposed to be about aside from her saying that word over and over again. It's like that John Mulaney bit about Ice-T just naming examples of addiction on SVU. There's no there, there. It manages to be probably the most insipid song I've ever been repeatedly subjected to and much of that is because it's from somebody trying and failing to act halfway smart in that moment.

It is the pop-song equivalent of facebook posts from old high school acquaintances. Ubiquitous and irritating, and yet it feels churlish to complain about them and isn't worth the effort anyway.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:44 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


You know, her whole song would be perfectly fine if she just switched out "ironic" and used "unfortunate" instead.
posted by grubi at 10:58 AM on July 16, 2013


"Isn't it sucky" might have been truer to the 90s spirit but might not have sold as well.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:05 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


"Isn't it a bummer? Doncha think?"
posted by grubi at 11:06 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


I heard this song yesterday when I was out shopping and it rankled me. I was feeling pretty good about my new flip flops from Merrell and then I opened the door to the mall courtyard and the heat hit me and along with the heat that lyric, that awful, pointless lyric. Even if it was ironic, so what? It's like a Cracked list of sucky things to happen to people "I needed a knife, but all I could find were these spoooooons!" That's not irony, that's a poorly stocked kitchen.

Yup, life sure has a funny way of sneaking up on you. She should have written a song about Murphy's Law next.
posted by Biblio at 11:21 AM on July 16, 2013


I would like a word that portrays the surreality of irony in the context of an unexpected coincidence between a literal and actual expectation/result.

For instance: Your daughter gets the lead role in a school play. You trip and break your leg while carrying a celebratory cake that says, "Break a leg!"
posted by Skwirl at 11:27 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


You say she's expressing her emotion? Fine. What emotion? What the sweet fuck is that song supposed to be about aside from her saying that word over and over again.

Look I don't want to be defending her use of the word ironic because yeah, but the sentiment of the song itself is pretty sound kind of 'life's kinda stupid really isn't it'. And yes it's twee and it's all manic pixie dream girl, but it's also true that sod's law is a thing and that often things happen which are both exasperating AND will make you smile because it's like God's got his own personal sense of humour.

Which is why 'isn't it sucky' isn't quite right; it's more 'isn't it funny how life doesn't make sense while making sense?'. Which is almost a line in the song incidentally.
posted by litleozy at 11:29 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


Some of them could be ironic! Some of them are very clearly not

Rain on your wedding day: can be easily conceived as ironic, since the average weather on a given date in a given place is something most people take into account when planning a wedding. If, for example it rains at your destination wedding in Phoenix, and not on the same day in Seattle where you live, that's unambiguously ironic.

A free ride when you've already paid: this is interpretable in several ways, based on how diligent the public-transit inspectors in your city are. Most are unironic

The good advice that you just didn't take: Not ironic. If AskMe has taught me anything, it's that people don't take good advice. What would be ironic is if your friends and/or fellow commenters gave up in exasperation, and started giving you the worst troll advice they could come up with and you followed that and it worked out well for you. (If any of you try to make a movie about this concept, I expect to get a free pizza for my idea.)

A man's fears of flying being proved right as he starts to enjoy the flight: Not ironic in the mundane sense, but actually a good example of irony in the dramatic sense (i.e., in giving the audience information the character doesn't have, giving the two a very different interpretation of the situation.)
posted by kagredon at 11:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]


Next up:

A detailed rebuttal to the lyrics of W. Axl Rose, including such cutting observations as:

- I know where I am, and it's not actually the jungle. And though I will certainly die eventually, it has now been more than a couple of decades since you made your prediction and I didn't get the sense that you were making a general existential point that everyone will eventually die someday.

- I question the accuracy of your assertion that you, in the jungle, have fun and games. If you did, indeed, have fun and games, I would expect you to have written additional songs recounting tales of grand fun and specific game play.

- In "Paradise City," you claim that you want to go to the "Paradise City where the grass is green and the girls are pretty." You then sing "Oh, won't you please take me home?" Are you referring to Lafayette, Indiana or Los Angeles, California? If Lafayette is the Paradise City to which you long to return, why have you not done so? If Los Angeles is the Paradise City, is that not sharply at odds with your previous proclamation that it is, in fact, "the Jungle," where you have not green grass and pretty girls, but fun, games, and shanananananana knees? Knees?

- In "Sweet Child 'o Mine," you repeatedly ask "where do we go now?" The answer seems clear: You go to the Paradise City. Did you simply forget, or change your mind?
posted by The World Famous at 12:24 PM on July 16, 2013 [15 favorites]


A detailed rebuttal to the lyrics of W. Axl Rose, including such cutting observations as:

And that's what you get for listening to a band named "Guns N' Roses."
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:44 PM on July 16, 2013


(For the record, I hate Guns 'N Roses more than probably any other band in the world.)
posted by The World Famous at 12:59 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


How do you know how other bands feel about Guns 'N Roses?
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:11 PM on July 16, 2013 [7 favorites]


Census. Duh.
posted by The World Famous at 1:20 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]


Traffic jam when you're already late: depends. Do you usually drive during rush hour, or just before?

No-smoking sign on your cigarette break: Not ironic in 1998. Kind of ironic in 2013, where it's not uncommon to walk around the block to find a bar or smoking room in order to have a cigarette; it would certainly be ironic to find a no-smoking sign in or near a place if you had good reason to assume that you should travel there to smoke.

10000 spoons when all you need is a knife: my first hunch is to say ironic because there are very few situations where you'd find 10000 spoons and not think there'd be a knife somewhere nearby. However, any situation where you're around 10000 spoons is somewhat bizarre to begin with, so I think that expectation would be forgotten or discarded, making this not ironic.

Meeting the man of your dreams, and then meeting his beautiful wife (or husband, in some more recent live versions): not ironic. It is not unexpected in any way that someone romantically attractive would be partnered up.

Old man turns 98, wins the lottery, dies the next day: I can't see a plausible ironic connection to be made between the lottery winning and his death, but there could be something ironic if he was a retired statistician who railed against playing the lottery and his kids bought him a ticket as a gag gift for his birthday. (two pizzas if you make a movie off of this concept.)

Black fly in your Chardonnay: I guess it would be sort of unlucky to have a black fly drown in your glass of white rather than someone else's red. Not ironic, though.
posted by kagredon at 1:45 PM on July 16, 2013


Words are defined by their common usage, not by academically enforced strictures. Ironically enough, Alanis is correct about the shifted and expanded scope of irony, and the fact that people still complain about this decades later is oddly new-ironic itself.
posted by effugas at 2:06 PM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]


(The new meaning of irony, by the way, includes the juxtaposition of two concepts, one of which 'finally happened' and the other of which 'chose now' to also happen. So, finally got the lottery ticket, but oops, can't enjoy it. Finally got the champagne, oops, black fly. Finally got a spoon, hell, even 10,000 spoons, but this is the moment you needed the knife. You don't have to like the definition, but it totally reflects everyday usage. Finally got the job you were waiting for, but ironically enough, can't take it because you're moving. Meanings shift, deal with it.)
posted by effugas at 2:09 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


...any situation where you're around 10000 spoons is somewhat bizarre to begin with...

A "The Tick" convention?
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:10 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


blurker: Has Alanis ever explained what she was trying to say? Was this song really meta irony?
I think she was trying to give textbook examples of a standard, dictionary definition of "irony". The "dictionary", BTW, is a book her critics have never once opened to check for the definition of "irony".
posted by IAmBroom at 2:21 PM on July 16, 2013


*fillinyourownexpressionofexasperation*, irony means 2 (minimum) audiences.

Yes, I do look cool for posting this.
posted by stanf at 2:42 PM on July 16, 2013


most of the rest of that album is pretty great (at least for what it is, which is extraordinarily of it's own time)

I'm gonna argue against that, if I get interested again.

Ironic was the biggest single. I woulda thought it was You Oughta Know, but I oughta've known better.

I probably give too much credit to Glen Ballard, but he was a big part of that album and it's so in his style. It was a zeitgeist thing, bolstered in no part my the you're-so-vainish aspect of YOK, i.e. "which Full House guy liked blowjobs in movie theaters?"

Ironically, she comments on the ironic nature of writing ironic songs about people:

Morissette did reveal in a 1995 interview that the song was not a mere abstraction but was indeed about someone specific with whom she had a relationship:
I haven't heard from him, and I don't think he knows. Which sort of says a lot about him. The ironic thing is, if anybody questions whether it's them I'm writing about, that means something in and of itself. People who were kind and honest and full of integrity throughout the process of making this album wouldn't question whether they were in that song because they would know.
"if anybody questions whether it's them I'm writing about, that means something in and of itself." .... hmm. THAT, I would argue, is NOT ironic in any sense. Am I missing it?

irony means 2 (minimum) audiences.

Ironically enough, in these post-modernist days, infinite audiences exist by default.

Even more ironically, the IsItIronic site is wonderful. Andre Agassi despised tennis. Ironic?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:48 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm gonna argue against that, if I get interested again.

"Not the Doctor" is a decent song. Not the best song, not even the best on Jagged Little Pill, but the album as a whole is much better than "Ironic" or "You Learn" suggests.
posted by kagredon at 2:54 PM on July 16, 2013


Even more ironically, the IsItIronic site is wonderful. Andre Agassi despised tennis. Ironic?

No.

Sad.

I hope the millions made up for it.

I think what I was trying to say is that I am cool for posting.

I know, mrgrimm, that you know I am cool and therefore any protestation against my coolness would, in itself, be un-ironic...
posted by stanf at 2:57 PM on July 16, 2013



A detailed rebuttal to the lyrics of W. Axl Rose, including such cutting observations as:


Oooh, ooh, can I do Bruce Springsteen's "Drive All Night"?

In which he says:

I swear I'll drive all night again, just to buy you some shoes

I would like to know, Mr Bruce Springsteen, why is it you have to make repeated visits to an all-night shoe store?
posted by chavenet at 4:12 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's like rain on your wedding day TO THOR THE GOD OF THUNDER

That's funny shit right there, and I"m not even sure why, but that made me laugh. In my head, I heard the first part as Alanis singing, and the all caps part as Thor screaming.
posted by MoxieProxy at 5:24 PM on July 16, 2013


I don't care if you use me again
I don't care we could go just about anywhere
it's so hard hard
but you're all I've got tonight
you're all I've got tonight

I need you....

TONIGHT!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:52 PM on July 16, 2013


It's like rain on your wedding day TO THOR THE GOD OF THUNDER

That's funny shit right there, and I"m not even sure why, but that made me laugh.


Because it's relatable, I think.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:00 PM on July 16, 2013


Due to the intense social pressures concerning them, weddings are often good sources of irony. In the general course of fate, should things go very wrong during a wedding, the participants may feel obligated to pretend to be happy when, really, they are miserable.

Against my better judgement, I find myself sympathizing with the irony purists. Four days a week, during most of the year, Stephen Colbert comes on T.V.* and gives us a sterling example of irony. It's tragic that the term has come to be so misunderstood.

*Mad props to the The Daily Show whose correspondents continue a rhetorical tradition that goes back to Socrates, at least.
posted by wobh at 7:22 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


It's like rain on your wedding day TO THOR THE GOD OF THUNDER

Surely Thor would want to get married in the rain?

"It's like cookies at your wedding reception WHEN YOU MARRIED COOKIE MONSTER"
posted by straight at 10:16 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


My favorite definition of irony is this one:

"Irony is something spoken to two audiences--one ignorant and one informed. The ignorant audience sees a single meaning, while the informed audience sees three--the ignorant (overt, usually) one, the informed one, and the knowledge of the ignorant audience's ignorance." -- Elizabeth Higgins

Of course the "ignorant" audience may be hypothetical. What's important is perceiving the contrast between how a real or imaginary ignorant audience would perceive the words or events and how they are actually meant.

In the song, "It's like rain" is the part the ignorant audience hears (or sees) and then "on your wedding day" is the part the informed audience hears (or knows) that makes the first part of the statement ironic.

"Ten thousand spoons" -- that seems great. "All you need is a knife" -- Oh, that changes the meaning of the spoons -- and that's irony.
posted by straight at 10:25 PM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]


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