Trouble on the International Space Station
July 16, 2013 10:39 AM Subscribe
“Imagine having a fishbowl on your head with a half a litre of water sticking to your face, ears and nose. Then imagine you can’t take the fishbowl off your head for a minimum of 20 minutes, feel the panic?”
ISS astronaut Luca Parmitano developed a water leak in his helmet shortly after beginning a spacewalk, but is fine now.
ISS astronaut Luca Parmitano developed a water leak in his helmet shortly after beginning a spacewalk, but is fine now.
This is exactly the reason why I haven't become an astronaut.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 10:43 AM on July 16, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 10:43 AM on July 16, 2013 [13 favorites]
"After returning the airlock, Parmitano performed an expedited process to remove his suit"
Does expedited process mean taking a claw hammer to get the damn thing off because I would have been tempted to take it off by any means necessary. Good on him for staying calm.
yes, i realize the glass on the helmet is probably crazy unbreakable strong. *shudder*
posted by pointystick at 10:45 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Does expedited process mean taking a claw hammer to get the damn thing off because I would have been tempted to take it off by any means necessary. Good on him for staying calm.
yes, i realize the glass on the helmet is probably crazy unbreakable strong. *shudder*
posted by pointystick at 10:45 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
So, my metric is rusty, but that's less than a quarter-gallon, right?
posted by oddman at 10:48 AM on July 16, 2013
posted by oddman at 10:48 AM on July 16, 2013
In space no one can hear you drown.
posted by Nelson at 10:50 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:50 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is what tears do in space. Imagine more water, in a helmet, which you have to retreat to an airlock to remove....
Terrifying.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:51 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
Terrifying.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:51 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
So the USA is water-boarding foreigners in space now?
posted by blue_beetle at 10:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 10:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [14 favorites]
So, my metric is rusty, but that's less than a quarter-gallon, right?
500 ml is a little over two cups. Plenty to drown in, if you cannot clear your airways.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
500 ml is a little over two cups. Plenty to drown in, if you cannot clear your airways.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:52 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
Say what you will about humanity, but we keep coming up with new ways that I would never want to die.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [30 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [30 favorites]
That's even less funny than a fart in a spacesuit. I wonder if he could try and drink it out of the way.
BTW today is the 44th anniversary of the Apollo 11 launch, which landed the first people on the moon.
posted by exogenous at 10:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
BTW today is the 44th anniversary of the Apollo 11 launch, which landed the first people on the moon.
posted by exogenous at 10:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [5 favorites]
That's even less funny than a fart in a spacesuit. I wonder if he could try and drink it out of the way.
Probably not, but that might work on the water.
posted by DU at 10:57 AM on July 16, 2013 [21 favorites]
Probably not, but that might work on the water.
posted by DU at 10:57 AM on July 16, 2013 [21 favorites]
Their generation had Apollo 13. We have Fishtank-Helmet 1. They truly were a greater generation.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:58 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:58 AM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
I wonder if he could try and drink it out of the way.
Somewhere in the link they said that he mentioned the water tasted funny. They then said the leak source was unknown but maybe from the suit's iodinated water based cooling system. So, maybe he tried to drink the problem away, thought better of it, and nixed the idea.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Somewhere in the link they said that he mentioned the water tasted funny. They then said the leak source was unknown but maybe from the suit's iodinated water based cooling system. So, maybe he tried to drink the problem away, thought better of it, and nixed the idea.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
Based on the steps taken to prepare for the EVA, mainly breathing pure oxygen for 40 minutes and adjusting the pressure down to zero, I imagine they have to reverse that coming in. I bet they let him speed that up somewhat.
He tasted the water apparently and he reported in tasted "funny" so he likely eliminated the idea to drink his way out of the problem.
The link under Luca's name is so awesome. It talks about what Luca is thinking going out into space. That is so cool. I hope before I die I can go out into outspace AND do an EVA; I would love to fly around in a jet pack thingy.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013
He tasted the water apparently and he reported in tasted "funny" so he likely eliminated the idea to drink his way out of the problem.
The link under Luca's name is so awesome. It talks about what Luca is thinking going out into space. That is so cool. I hope before I die I can go out into outspace AND do an EVA; I would love to fly around in a jet pack thingy.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013
Thanks for giving me a new nightmare!
Yawn. Wake me when an astronaut finds a shark swimming in their helmet.
posted by wensink at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013
Yawn. Wake me when an astronaut finds a shark swimming in their helmet.
posted by wensink at 11:01 AM on July 16, 2013
Friday on *insert channel here*: SPACE SHARKNADOS!
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:02 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:02 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm glad everyone's okay.. because now I can paste this in good conscience : Space Sneeze
posted by DigDoug at 11:14 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DigDoug at 11:14 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Given the effect of surface tension making the water cling to your skin, this would be pretty much exactly like getting attacked by the blob.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:23 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:23 AM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
throw some Tang in there - no problem!
posted by thelonius at 11:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 11:24 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
DU: That's even less funny than a fart in a spacesuit. I wonder if he could try and drink it out of the way.
Probably not, but that might work on the water.
The race is on to register the new sockpuppet account "FartDrinker".
posted by dr_dank at 11:25 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Probably not, but that might work on the water.
The race is on to register the new sockpuppet account "FartDrinker".
posted by dr_dank at 11:25 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
This post seems to have come with a lot of obligations. I thought we were a more relaxed bunch around here.
posted by wierdo at 11:32 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 11:32 AM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
So, the first thing I'd want to try would be spinning around an axis perpendicular to my body, though my belly button, to get the water to flow to the top of the helmet under the influence of the centrifugal force.
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?
posted by BrashTech at 11:44 AM on July 16, 2013
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?
posted by BrashTech at 11:44 AM on July 16, 2013
BrashTech: "So, the first thing I'd want to try would be spinning around an axis perpendicular to my body, though my belly button, to get the water to flow to the top of the helmet under the influence of the centrifugal force.
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?"
Well, in space you don't get delta vee for free. So I wonder how much fuel once of those EVA suits hold.
Secondly, I don't exactly see what this course of action would do that might be productive.
posted by Samizdata at 11:55 AM on July 16, 2013
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?"
Well, in space you don't get delta vee for free. So I wonder how much fuel once of those EVA suits hold.
Secondly, I don't exactly see what this course of action would do that might be productive.
posted by Samizdata at 11:55 AM on July 16, 2013
Of all the ways I've imagined an astronaut some day dying in space, drowning wasn't one of them.
posted by bondcliff at 11:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by bondcliff at 11:56 AM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Does expedited process mean taking a claw hammer to get the damn thing off because I would have been tempted to take it off by any means necessary.
Possibly, as a last resort. You really don't want small pieces of glass floating round in your space station.
Somewhere in the link they said that he mentioned the water tasted funny.
No, that was Chris Cassidy, the other astronaut who was out on the spacewalk. The exact sequence of events isn't known to the general public at this point, so it's unclear if Luca tried to drink his way out.
So, the first thing I'd want to try would be spinning around an axis perpendicular to my body, though my belly button, to get the water to flow to the top of the helmet under the influence of the centrifugal force.
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?
NASA's EVA suits use tethers, not umbilicals, with an emergency "jetpack" in case they somehow get disconnected from the station. Not sure there's a way to safely do the centrifugal trick you describe. It also doesn't do anything to help get the astronaut back on the station and could be eating up time better spent getting back on board.
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall for the NASA meetings about this and any potential fixes/resolutions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:57 AM on July 16, 2013
Possibly, as a last resort. You really don't want small pieces of glass floating round in your space station.
Somewhere in the link they said that he mentioned the water tasted funny.
No, that was Chris Cassidy, the other astronaut who was out on the spacewalk. The exact sequence of events isn't known to the general public at this point, so it's unclear if Luca tried to drink his way out.
So, the first thing I'd want to try would be spinning around an axis perpendicular to my body, though my belly button, to get the water to flow to the top of the helmet under the influence of the centrifugal force.
Is there an umbilical on the EMU suit that would get tangled? Or would there be a fear that the rotation would make him ralph and make it all the worse?
NASA's EVA suits use tethers, not umbilicals, with an emergency "jetpack" in case they somehow get disconnected from the station. Not sure there's a way to safely do the centrifugal trick you describe. It also doesn't do anything to help get the astronaut back on the station and could be eating up time better spent getting back on board.
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall for the NASA meetings about this and any potential fixes/resolutions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:57 AM on July 16, 2013
And not to be too morbid but I wonder what sort of training and/or supplies they have on the ISS to deal with the death of an astronaut. Do they have body bags? Would they store the body for a few months until it was time to come home or would they bring the dead down immediately on a Soyuz? Or maybe they have a procedure for a space burial, but would that be traumatic for the body?
Are there any articles about this? I know the Apollo CM pilots trained to come home alone of the two moon walkers got stranded. NASA is all about practicality so there must be some sort of training on the ISS.
Would it even be possible for one astronaut to get another, dead, space-suited astronaut back into the airlock?
posted by bondcliff at 12:06 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
Are there any articles about this? I know the Apollo CM pilots trained to come home alone of the two moon walkers got stranded. NASA is all about practicality so there must be some sort of training on the ISS.
Would it even be possible for one astronaut to get another, dead, space-suited astronaut back into the airlock?
posted by bondcliff at 12:06 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
So, the first thing I'd want to try would be spinning around an axis perpendicular to my body, though my belly button, to get the water to flow to the top of the helmet under the influence of the centrifugal force.
Bonus: the vomit resulting from spinning that way would collect in the top of the helmet as well.
posted by aught at 12:07 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Bonus: the vomit resulting from spinning that way would collect in the top of the helmet as well.
posted by aught at 12:07 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
It also doesn't do anything to help get the astronaut back on the station and could be eating up time better spent getting back on board.
Good point. So to make this a plot point in my next sci-fi thriller, I should be sure that the airlock is also damaged.
posted by BrashTech at 12:23 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Good point. So to make this a plot point in my next sci-fi thriller, I should be sure that the airlock is also damaged.
posted by BrashTech at 12:23 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Based on the steps taken to prepare for the EVA, mainly breathing pure oxygen for 40 minutes and adjusting the pressure down to zero, I imagine they have to reverse that coming in.
I don't think so. The pre-breathe is to get all the nitrogen out of their system. On the way in that's not an issue.
The nitrogen needs to be out because with a pure oxygen, low pressure suit the nitrogen pressure gradient between the blood and the breathing air could cause the bends.
posted by atrazine at 12:32 PM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
I don't think so. The pre-breathe is to get all the nitrogen out of their system. On the way in that's not an issue.
The nitrogen needs to be out because with a pure oxygen, low pressure suit the nitrogen pressure gradient between the blood and the breathing air could cause the bends.
posted by atrazine at 12:32 PM on July 16, 2013 [4 favorites]
shudder.
Someone will make a fine, terrifying short film based on this one day.
posted by mwhybark at 12:42 PM on July 16, 2013
Someone will make a fine, terrifying short film based on this one day.
posted by mwhybark at 12:42 PM on July 16, 2013
Well, he'd be at the top of the "distance traveled while drowning" leaderboard. Not much of a consolation prize.
shudder
posted by Skorgu at 12:55 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
shudder
posted by Skorgu at 12:55 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
I wonder how well it would work to have a straw-like device near the mouth (like they already use for drinking in the suit) that would provide air. By breathing in through the tube and exhaling through the nose, an astronaut could survive for quite a while with a water leak.
posted by 1367 at 12:58 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by 1367 at 12:58 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
it's unclear if Luca tried to drink his way out
Hey, it's not like he's a cosmonaut.
posted by Nelson at 1:03 PM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Hey, it's not like he's a cosmonaut.
posted by Nelson at 1:03 PM on July 16, 2013 [6 favorites]
Here's a more informative link about the incident in general. It makes it sound as though things were only getting really serious once the astronauts were back in the airlock.
And not to be too morbid but I wonder what sort of training and/or supplies they have on the ISS to deal with the death of an astronaut. Do they have body bags? Would they store the body for a few months until it was time to come home or would they bring the dead down immediately on a Soyuz? Or maybe they have a procedure for a space burial, but would that be traumatic for the body?
I'd curious about this too, especially since the Soyuz capsules are so small and they really squeeze in the three astronauts. Would 2 living astronauts travel down with the body? Would they send up another Soyuz just for the body? The Dragon spacecraft has down mass capability, meaning it can return cargo to Earth. Ifone were docked when an accident happened, they could send the body down with it.
Would it even be possible for one astronaut to get another, dead, space-suited astronaut back into the airlock?
Probably, but it would be difficult. But the another astronaut would no doubt work his butt his to get the body back inside for some sort of burial.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:05 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
And not to be too morbid but I wonder what sort of training and/or supplies they have on the ISS to deal with the death of an astronaut. Do they have body bags? Would they store the body for a few months until it was time to come home or would they bring the dead down immediately on a Soyuz? Or maybe they have a procedure for a space burial, but would that be traumatic for the body?
I'd curious about this too, especially since the Soyuz capsules are so small and they really squeeze in the three astronauts. Would 2 living astronauts travel down with the body? Would they send up another Soyuz just for the body? The Dragon spacecraft has down mass capability, meaning it can return cargo to Earth. Ifone were docked when an accident happened, they could send the body down with it.
Would it even be possible for one astronaut to get another, dead, space-suited astronaut back into the airlock?
Probably, but it would be difficult. But the another astronaut would no doubt work his butt his to get the body back inside for some sort of burial.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:05 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
1367: I wonder how well it would work to have a straw-like device near the mouth (like they already use for drinking in the suit) that would provide air. By breathing in through the tube and exhaling through the nose, an astronaut could survive for quite a while with a water leak.That's actually pretty brilliant.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:12 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher: Somewhere in the link they said that he mentioned the water tasted funny.From your later link:
No, that was Chris Cassidy, the other astronaut who was out on the spacewalk. The exact sequence of events isn't known to the general public at this point, so it's unclear if Luca tried to drink his way out.
After he was safe and dry, Parmitano told his crewmates that the water inside his helmet had tasted "really funny" and not like the water from his spacesuit's drink bag.The astronaut with the leakage problem tasted it himself while in the helmet. It might not have been intentional, though - it would be hard to keep the water out of your mouth if you opened it to talk.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:17 PM on July 16, 2013
I wonder how well it would work to have a straw-like device near the mouth (like they already use for drinking in the suit) that would provide air. By breathing in through the tube and exhaling through the nose, an astronaut could survive for quite a while with a water leak.
Mythbusters did an experiment similar to this, where they checked to see if a person could get air, while underwater, from the air tube of a tire. It didn't work at all, as water kept getting in the mouth.
What might work is having proposed airtube in the suit actually provide a gentle amount of suction in a emergency situation. If this tube was able to pull in the water and then store and expel it, while recycling the air back into the suit, that could be useful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:25 PM on July 16, 2013
Mythbusters did an experiment similar to this, where they checked to see if a person could get air, while underwater, from the air tube of a tire. It didn't work at all, as water kept getting in the mouth.
What might work is having proposed airtube in the suit actually provide a gentle amount of suction in a emergency situation. If this tube was able to pull in the water and then store and expel it, while recycling the air back into the suit, that could be useful.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:25 PM on July 16, 2013
Someone will make a fine, terrifying short film based on this one day.
There was a Heinlein (? maybe Clarke, now that I think of it) short story that featured an astronaut who determines that there is something inside his spacesuit. He hears noises and then feels something brush some part of his body. After freaking way the hell out, he wakes up back inside the spaceship and sees everyone playing with the kitten that the ship's cat had deposited inside his suit.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:27 PM on July 16, 2013
There was a Heinlein (? maybe Clarke, now that I think of it) short story that featured an astronaut who determines that there is something inside his spacesuit. He hears noises and then feels something brush some part of his body. After freaking way the hell out, he wakes up back inside the spaceship and sees everyone playing with the kitten that the ship's cat had deposited inside his suit.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:27 PM on July 16, 2013
Mythbusters did an experiment similar to this, where they checked to see if a person could get air, while underwater, from the air tube of a tire. It didn't work at all, as water kept getting in the mouth.
I remember that episode. This might be correct (I am not sure if anyone can definitively know the answer to this, and am not attempting to say "no") but someone underwater is dealing with the pressure of the water, rather than simply the "clinginess" that we see in the washcloth video.
posted by 1367 at 1:46 PM on July 16, 2013
I remember that episode. This might be correct (I am not sure if anyone can definitively know the answer to this, and am not attempting to say "no") but someone underwater is dealing with the pressure of the water, rather than simply the "clinginess" that we see in the washcloth video.
posted by 1367 at 1:46 PM on July 16, 2013
Heinlein (? maybe Clarke, now that I think of it) short story that featured an astronaut who determines that there is something inside his spacesuit.
It's Clarke's, The Haunted Spacesuit.
posted by bondcliff at 1:48 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's Clarke's, The Haunted Spacesuit.
posted by bondcliff at 1:48 PM on July 16, 2013 [2 favorites]
The way you would have dealt with this in the A7L suit of the Apollo era would be to breath in, then open the purge valve on the chest. The pressure gradient would pull the air, and some to most of the water, down. Then you'd close the valve and let the PLSS repressurize the suit.
The reason for the valve was the backup O2 supply, which wasn't as carefully regulated. Too much pressure in the suit makes it inflexible, so in case of a PLSS failure in delivering O2, you start the reserve, then open the purge valve so you didn't become a big rigid balloon, then run like hell for the CM or LEM, depending on where you were.
There was a way to couple two of the suits together, but that wasn't for oxygen, that was for cooling. A space suit, being surrounded by vacuum, is for all intents a thermos, and without active cooling, you'd die of heatstroke very quickly.
Those of you who remember the infamous centerfolds in the Apollo 12 cuff checklists (placed by the backup crew) will recall one being labeled "preferred tether partner," that referred to the procedure for coupling the two LCGs (liquid cooling garments) to one PLSS (personal life support system - the big backpack on the Apollo suits.)
I don't know what the current suits can do - but unlike the Apollo suits, they're never very far from an airlock, so the backup supply may not be very large. Still, they have to have a vent somewhere - an overinflated suit would be impossible to move in.
Then again, it wasn't my face in that water. I may well have forgetten the purge valve as well.
As to, err, body emissions, there's a reason you wear a diaper in one of those. The real disaster - with a very real probablity of death - is throwing up in a suit, so any sign of SAS means you stay inside.
posted by eriko at 2:13 PM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
The reason for the valve was the backup O2 supply, which wasn't as carefully regulated. Too much pressure in the suit makes it inflexible, so in case of a PLSS failure in delivering O2, you start the reserve, then open the purge valve so you didn't become a big rigid balloon, then run like hell for the CM or LEM, depending on where you were.
There was a way to couple two of the suits together, but that wasn't for oxygen, that was for cooling. A space suit, being surrounded by vacuum, is for all intents a thermos, and without active cooling, you'd die of heatstroke very quickly.
Those of you who remember the infamous centerfolds in the Apollo 12 cuff checklists (placed by the backup crew) will recall one being labeled "preferred tether partner," that referred to the procedure for coupling the two LCGs (liquid cooling garments) to one PLSS (personal life support system - the big backpack on the Apollo suits.)
I don't know what the current suits can do - but unlike the Apollo suits, they're never very far from an airlock, so the backup supply may not be very large. Still, they have to have a vent somewhere - an overinflated suit would be impossible to move in.
Then again, it wasn't my face in that water. I may well have forgetten the purge valve as well.
As to, err, body emissions, there's a reason you wear a diaper in one of those. The real disaster - with a very real probablity of death - is throwing up in a suit, so any sign of SAS means you stay inside.
posted by eriko at 2:13 PM on July 16, 2013 [11 favorites]
Per Eriko:
posted by cstross at 2:25 PM on July 16, 2013
A space suit, being surrounded by vacuum, is for all intents a thermos, and without active cooling, you'd die of heatstroke very quickly.The collectspace.com news item notes that some of the tubes in Parmitano's cooling undergarment were dry. These tubes basically circulate water through a heat exchange system to keep the astronaut from overheating. So it's quite likely that they aborted the spacewalk on the assumption that his cooling system had broken and he was in danger of heat exhaustion.
posted by cstross at 2:25 PM on July 16, 2013
Hour long video, with audio, of the beginning of the spacewalk, problems, cancellation and return to the space station.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 PM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:45 PM on July 16, 2013 [3 favorites]
To all the "Why don't we have colonies on Mars by now?" people: it's stuff like this (among other things). Living in space is actually a little more complicated than in science fiction books.
posted by officer_fred at 4:51 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by officer_fred at 4:51 PM on July 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
This seems less scary than puking in a full-face motorcycle helmet.
posted by ryanrs at 4:54 PM on July 16, 2013
posted by ryanrs at 4:54 PM on July 16, 2013
This seems less scary than puking in a full-face motorcycle helmet.
Well, that sucks when your actually driving a motorcycle, but otherwise, it drips down and you can quickly rip the helmet off -- two things which are simply not true in orbit.
Inhaling vomit? There's a real reason that they don't want you to eat before general anesthesia. Look up "aspiration pnuemonia."
Ripping the helmet off? Look up "dying" unless you can get under pressure in a minute or so. Note where I said "hold breath" -- that's a bad idea for complete decompression like this. For a controlled decompression, where you're going to seal up quickly and can blow off the pressure in your lungs, that deep breath gets that much more O2 into you.
Living in space is actually a little more complicated than in science fiction books.
And we actually have very little idea of the sum total of the complications. There's one reason that to get an ISS posting, you have to be a fitness nut -- if you're not willing to exercise a couple of hours a day, you're very likely going to be unable to walk for a considerable amount of time when you come back. Stay up there long enough, and you may never walk again -- indeed, stay there for 20 years, and you may never be able to live in a 1g gravity well again.
Children? We literally have no idea how kids would fare growing up in zero gee.
Space is cool, except for the unremitting effort to kill you. It's a lot like Death Valley, on steroids, after a bender and just finding out that you killed its dog.
posted by eriko at 7:52 PM on July 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Well, that sucks when your actually driving a motorcycle, but otherwise, it drips down and you can quickly rip the helmet off -- two things which are simply not true in orbit.
Inhaling vomit? There's a real reason that they don't want you to eat before general anesthesia. Look up "aspiration pnuemonia."
Ripping the helmet off? Look up "dying" unless you can get under pressure in a minute or so. Note where I said "hold breath" -- that's a bad idea for complete decompression like this. For a controlled decompression, where you're going to seal up quickly and can blow off the pressure in your lungs, that deep breath gets that much more O2 into you.
Living in space is actually a little more complicated than in science fiction books.
And we actually have very little idea of the sum total of the complications. There's one reason that to get an ISS posting, you have to be a fitness nut -- if you're not willing to exercise a couple of hours a day, you're very likely going to be unable to walk for a considerable amount of time when you come back. Stay up there long enough, and you may never walk again -- indeed, stay there for 20 years, and you may never be able to live in a 1g gravity well again.
Children? We literally have no idea how kids would fare growing up in zero gee.
Space is cool, except for the unremitting effort to kill you. It's a lot like Death Valley, on steroids, after a bender and just finding out that you killed its dog.
posted by eriko at 7:52 PM on July 16, 2013 [8 favorites]
Living in space is actually a little more complicated than in science fiction books
You clearly didn't read the same SF I did when growing up. An incident like this would be a classic type of SF short (or mid-book chapter) for the 40s/50s nuts-and-bolts school of SF. Wrap it in some human interest (new guy from earth vs. old hands; shaggy dog story; first guy using new technology; love interest; creeping horror; etc) and submit it to Analog and that's your pot kept boiling for another month. (Thirty years later your story has been collected in a cheap paperback and is fodder for young hattifattener.)
posted by hattifattener at 12:53 AM on July 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
You clearly didn't read the same SF I did when growing up. An incident like this would be a classic type of SF short (or mid-book chapter) for the 40s/50s nuts-and-bolts school of SF. Wrap it in some human interest (new guy from earth vs. old hands; shaggy dog story; first guy using new technology; love interest; creeping horror; etc) and submit it to Analog and that's your pot kept boiling for another month. (Thirty years later your story has been collected in a cheap paperback and is fodder for young hattifattener.)
posted by hattifattener at 12:53 AM on July 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
Also we haven't even gotten to the bit with the oysters and the cat-people.
posted by hattifattener at 1:14 AM on July 17, 2013
posted by hattifattener at 1:14 AM on July 17, 2013
Do they have body bags? Would they store the body for a few months until it was time to come home or would they bring the dead down immediately on a Soyuz?
There is actually an FAA document that refers to the availability of "a" body bag (surely more than one?) aboard ISS. It's mostly about overall medical emergency procedures, and pretty obviously anything very serious would mean activating emergency evacuation procedures (though it seems to date from the one-Soyuz, one-backup-Soyuz era, when a crew of three could be left on orbit).
I have little doubt that it's something that is, at least briefly, trained for as part of general medical education.
Or maybe they have a procedure for a space burial, but would that be traumatic for the body?
There are discussions of a future space coffin that could be used, and the ethical conundrums of a death on board a hypothetical Mars mission.
The Dragon spacecraft has down mass capability
I just cannot imagine this being authorized for return of a formerly living astronaut, unless there were some other complication.
posted by dhartung at 2:57 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
There is actually an FAA document that refers to the availability of "a" body bag (surely more than one?) aboard ISS. It's mostly about overall medical emergency procedures, and pretty obviously anything very serious would mean activating emergency evacuation procedures (though it seems to date from the one-Soyuz, one-backup-Soyuz era, when a crew of three could be left on orbit).
I have little doubt that it's something that is, at least briefly, trained for as part of general medical education.
Or maybe they have a procedure for a space burial, but would that be traumatic for the body?
There are discussions of a future space coffin that could be used, and the ethical conundrums of a death on board a hypothetical Mars mission.
The Dragon spacecraft has down mass capability
I just cannot imagine this being authorized for return of a formerly living astronaut, unless there were some other complication.
posted by dhartung at 2:57 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
Whoops, that hour long video starts Luca reporting in the problem, not the beginning of the spacewalk.
Interesting general notes:
After the problem was reported, the astronauts were told to standby while Mission Control studied the problem. So they spent time just taking photos. It was interesting to see them constantly having to readjust themselves to stay as still as possible while taking photos.
The handrails that astronauts tether themselves to the station are specifically designated with letters and evidently have mandatory or optional status in terms of use, seemingly based on where the astronaut is and what they're doing do.
Luca was sent back to the airlock, while the other astronaut, Chris Cassidy, cleaned up by gathering and /or stowing tools. Luca's communications get noticeably worse and it sounds like you can hear the water sloshing around. Luca sounds just slightly worried and overwhelmed. He went in the airlock first, so Cassidy could do something called airlock ops. Mission control was keeping track of tool bags and reminding Cassidy to grab those, which took a couple of extra minutes. Then Cassidy had to double-check Luca's tethers and a few other things, to make sure they were all in their proper place, before he could get in the airlock. During all this Cassidy keeps talking to Mission Control, describing what he's doing and seemingly asking for MC to follow his procedures to make sure he's doing everything right and in order. That's probably standard procedure.
Once the astronauts are hooked up to everything in the airlock, there's a 2minute pause before the hatch is closed for some procedure I'm didn't catch. The cooling systems in Luca's suit are cut for another reason I missed, so they warn him that things might get a little warmer and to let them know if they need to expedite procedures.
After the hatch is closed, there's some more procedures that need to be done. The interior astronauts talk through the process with those in the airlock. This took another 2 or 3 minutes, then re-pressurizing began. While this was happening, all coms with Luca were lost. Pressurizing took only about two minutes or so , then there was another 2 minute wait for the pressure to equalize with the station. Cassidy kept his eyes on Luca and informed Mission Control he was ok, but looked miserable. Then more procedures, such as turning glove heaters off and few other things. Then short discussion on whether Cassidy can do Luca's procedures, as Luca couldn't hear or whether it would matter if it was done or not, in terms of Luca's safety and damaging the suit. Quick verification of what steps to skip on the checklist to get him in and his helmet off. Then a correction from Mission Control about those steps. Pressure is then equalized and hatch is opened (It slides up, not pulled up like a door).
The interior astronauts pull Luca in and begin taking off his helmet. It sounds like this was hugely unusual, as the emergency jetpack and what not were not taken off first. Once his helmet is off, then they remove that 'jetpack' known as SAFER seemingly make sure parts of that are disconnected (and disarmed?). They managed to get his helmet off in a minute or so. Luca appears calm and relaxed. Lots of towels used on his head.
Cassidy is pulled in once Luca is ok. The SAFER unit on him is pulled off first and stored and then he's positioned against a wall. Then his helmet is taken off.
This mission was Luca's first spaceflight and he is the first Italian to go on a spacewalk.
I have no idea why I typed all this up.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:35 AM on July 17, 2013 [27 favorites]
Interesting general notes:
After the problem was reported, the astronauts were told to standby while Mission Control studied the problem. So they spent time just taking photos. It was interesting to see them constantly having to readjust themselves to stay as still as possible while taking photos.
The handrails that astronauts tether themselves to the station are specifically designated with letters and evidently have mandatory or optional status in terms of use, seemingly based on where the astronaut is and what they're doing do.
Luca was sent back to the airlock, while the other astronaut, Chris Cassidy, cleaned up by gathering and /or stowing tools. Luca's communications get noticeably worse and it sounds like you can hear the water sloshing around. Luca sounds just slightly worried and overwhelmed. He went in the airlock first, so Cassidy could do something called airlock ops. Mission control was keeping track of tool bags and reminding Cassidy to grab those, which took a couple of extra minutes. Then Cassidy had to double-check Luca's tethers and a few other things, to make sure they were all in their proper place, before he could get in the airlock. During all this Cassidy keeps talking to Mission Control, describing what he's doing and seemingly asking for MC to follow his procedures to make sure he's doing everything right and in order. That's probably standard procedure.
Once the astronauts are hooked up to everything in the airlock, there's a 2minute pause before the hatch is closed for some procedure I'm didn't catch. The cooling systems in Luca's suit are cut for another reason I missed, so they warn him that things might get a little warmer and to let them know if they need to expedite procedures.
After the hatch is closed, there's some more procedures that need to be done. The interior astronauts talk through the process with those in the airlock. This took another 2 or 3 minutes, then re-pressurizing began. While this was happening, all coms with Luca were lost. Pressurizing took only about two minutes or so , then there was another 2 minute wait for the pressure to equalize with the station. Cassidy kept his eyes on Luca and informed Mission Control he was ok, but looked miserable. Then more procedures, such as turning glove heaters off and few other things. Then short discussion on whether Cassidy can do Luca's procedures, as Luca couldn't hear or whether it would matter if it was done or not, in terms of Luca's safety and damaging the suit. Quick verification of what steps to skip on the checklist to get him in and his helmet off. Then a correction from Mission Control about those steps. Pressure is then equalized and hatch is opened (It slides up, not pulled up like a door).
The interior astronauts pull Luca in and begin taking off his helmet. It sounds like this was hugely unusual, as the emergency jetpack and what not were not taken off first. Once his helmet is off, then they remove that 'jetpack' known as SAFER seemingly make sure parts of that are disconnected (and disarmed?). They managed to get his helmet off in a minute or so. Luca appears calm and relaxed. Lots of towels used on his head.
Cassidy is pulled in once Luca is ok. The SAFER unit on him is pulled off first and stored and then he's positioned against a wall. Then his helmet is taken off.
This mission was Luca's first spaceflight and he is the first Italian to go on a spacewalk.
I have no idea why I typed all this up.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:35 AM on July 17, 2013 [27 favorites]
I have no idea why I typed all this up.
I'm glad you did, thanks.
I hope they're able to repair the suit and re-do the spacewalk. It would suck for him if he was unable to do it, and of course it would suck for the mission.
I'm amazed that someone's first spaceflight would be a long-duration flight. I guess those are the only flights they have these days now that the Shuttle is dead but it seems like it would it would make sense to test astronauts for a few days before sending them up for months. What if they hate it?
posted by bondcliff at 6:25 AM on July 17, 2013
I'm glad you did, thanks.
I hope they're able to repair the suit and re-do the spacewalk. It would suck for him if he was unable to do it, and of course it would suck for the mission.
I'm amazed that someone's first spaceflight would be a long-duration flight. I guess those are the only flights they have these days now that the Shuttle is dead but it seems like it would it would make sense to test astronauts for a few days before sending them up for months. What if they hate it?
posted by bondcliff at 6:25 AM on July 17, 2013
I guess those are the only flights they have these days now that the Shuttle is dead but it seems like it would it would make sense to test astronauts for a few days before sending them up for months.
Long duration flights as a first flight have been happening for a while. At least the early 200s for NASA and probably since the '80s for Russia. Expedition 3 , back in 2001, had a cosmonaut on his first flight. Expedition 5, in 2002, was a first flight for an American astronaut.
Apollo 12, the second moon landing (which could have been the first crew on the moon if certain things had gone differently), had a rookie astronaut who's first flight was walking on the Moon. How awesome was that?! I've read that the training for a flight is so thorough and intense that astronauts often find themselves a little bored once they're on the mission, because it so closely matches the simulation and training.
What if they hate it?
These are highly motivated people who train for years. Once a person is accepted by NASA as an "astronaut", there's a two year learning curve where they're officially known as astronaut candidates. Once they pass that, then they have the title of astronaut. Then they serve in support capacity throughout the program. I imagine that anyone who shows the smallest trace of not being able to hack it isn't given a flight.
There's this story about US air traffic controllers, don't know if it's true, but if so it hints at the small unofficial tests that probably go on in astronaut training.
Naturally, you don't someone who drinks a lot being an air traffic controller. But there are parties and what not where alcohol is served. So the story goes (can't remember where i read it), but everyone is watching everyone else and how much they're drinking. Not drinking is understood and respected, but even more so is the ability to only drink half a can of beer and throw the rest away. Anyone who's drinking more is note by others and sort of unofficially watched. Evidently the important ability here is being able to have control.
To put it another way, if tomorrow NASA asked for volunteers from anyone for a spaceflight that started next week, the response would be huge. Now imagine that if that spaceflight might start sometime within the next decade and there was zero guarantee you would get on that mission, and to even qualify you had to have a lot of professional credentials , high intelligence and the willingness to work your ass off for two years before NASA even thought about putting you in the position to assist in helping out a few programs or systems that put other people in space.
Lots of people want to do X, where X is a seemingly glamorous activity. Very few people are willing to put in the work to get into the position of even having the small, non-guaranteed chance to do X.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 AM on July 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
Long duration flights as a first flight have been happening for a while. At least the early 200s for NASA and probably since the '80s for Russia. Expedition 3 , back in 2001, had a cosmonaut on his first flight. Expedition 5, in 2002, was a first flight for an American astronaut.
Apollo 12, the second moon landing (which could have been the first crew on the moon if certain things had gone differently), had a rookie astronaut who's first flight was walking on the Moon. How awesome was that?! I've read that the training for a flight is so thorough and intense that astronauts often find themselves a little bored once they're on the mission, because it so closely matches the simulation and training.
What if they hate it?
These are highly motivated people who train for years. Once a person is accepted by NASA as an "astronaut", there's a two year learning curve where they're officially known as astronaut candidates. Once they pass that, then they have the title of astronaut. Then they serve in support capacity throughout the program. I imagine that anyone who shows the smallest trace of not being able to hack it isn't given a flight.
There's this story about US air traffic controllers, don't know if it's true, but if so it hints at the small unofficial tests that probably go on in astronaut training.
Naturally, you don't someone who drinks a lot being an air traffic controller. But there are parties and what not where alcohol is served. So the story goes (can't remember where i read it), but everyone is watching everyone else and how much they're drinking. Not drinking is understood and respected, but even more so is the ability to only drink half a can of beer and throw the rest away. Anyone who's drinking more is note by others and sort of unofficially watched. Evidently the important ability here is being able to have control.
To put it another way, if tomorrow NASA asked for volunteers from anyone for a spaceflight that started next week, the response would be huge. Now imagine that if that spaceflight might start sometime within the next decade and there was zero guarantee you would get on that mission, and to even qualify you had to have a lot of professional credentials , high intelligence and the willingness to work your ass off for two years before NASA even thought about putting you in the position to assist in helping out a few programs or systems that put other people in space.
Lots of people want to do X, where X is a seemingly glamorous activity. Very few people are willing to put in the work to get into the position of even having the small, non-guaranteed chance to do X.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 AM on July 17, 2013 [3 favorites]
Apollo 12, the second moon landing (which could have been the first crew on the moon if certain things had gone differently), had a rookie astronaut who's first flight was walking on the Moon. How awesome was that?
Way awesome. The Alan Bean episode of From The Earth To The Moon is probably one of my favorite things ever. Bonus: The asshole doctor from ER playing Pete Conrad.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. It must be amazing when they finally get to space after years and years of training.
posted by bondcliff at 8:01 AM on July 17, 2013
Way awesome. The Alan Bean episode of From The Earth To The Moon is probably one of my favorite things ever. Bonus: The asshole doctor from ER playing Pete Conrad.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. It must be amazing when they finally get to space after years and years of training.
posted by bondcliff at 8:01 AM on July 17, 2013
Experts from the Smithsonian are currently doing an "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) session on the Apollo program.
posted by exogenous at 8:45 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by exogenous at 8:45 AM on July 17, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure that if I had water all over my face from my leaky underwear that I would discontinue my spacewalk, too.
Yes. I'm sure.
posted by mule98J at 10:40 AM on July 17, 2013
Yes. I'm sure.
posted by mule98J at 10:40 AM on July 17, 2013
FIRST PERSON TO (almost) DROWN IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!
posted by blue_beetle at 11:03 AM on July 17, 2013
posted by blue_beetle at 11:03 AM on July 17, 2013
It's not like it's the first time Luca has had his head covered in water while in space...
posted by zap rowsdower at 11:25 AM on July 17, 2013
posted by zap rowsdower at 11:25 AM on July 17, 2013
Experts from the Smithsonian are currently doing an "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) session on the Apollo program.
Check Out These Beautiful Photos From The Apollo 11 Moon Mission
posted by homunculus at 10:42 AM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Check Out These Beautiful Photos From The Apollo 11 Moon Mission
posted by homunculus at 10:42 AM on July 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
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