That belongs in a museum!

July 27, 2013 2:56 PM

One of the last remaining copies of Schindler's List has been posted for sale on Ebay, with a starting bid of $3,000,000 USD.

"The 14-page list, which is typed on onion-skin paper and is dated April 18, 1945, contains the names of 801 Jewish men who the German industrialist Oskar Schindler helped to avoid almost certain death in Hitler’s concentration camps during World War II. The opening bid is $3 million." (via Time)

posted by Strange Interlude (49 comments total)

Have one to sell? Sell it yourself

Okay, I laughed really fucking hard at this utterly mundane automessage on the page.
posted by elizardbits at 3:01 PM on July 27, 2013 [29 favorites]

eBay is certainly a place where I'd seriously place a 7-figure bid, assuming I had a 7-figure money pile. Except that it isn't and wouldn't be.
posted by localroger at 3:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

Stupid me thought, "what the hell, how did that movie become so rare?"
posted by chrominance at 3:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [38 favorites]

While googling "ang.metallverarb" I found that someone has put up some interesting annotations on RapGenius.
posted by bleep at 3:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]

Stupid me thought, "what the hell, how did that movie become so rare?"

STOP! THIS IS NOT A DVD!
posted by Strange Interlude at 3:14 PM on July 27, 2013 [10 favorites]

The item is located in Israel. Free local pickup only. Contact us for details.

Yeah. Good luck with that.
posted by R. Schlock at 3:14 PM on July 27, 2013

No BillMeLater option?
posted by birdherder at 3:18 PM on July 27, 2013

"Ask seller a question"

OK. What the fuck is wrong with you?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:20 PM on July 27, 2013 [9 favorites]

This is the first time I've ever seen the text of the list. Lotta people with my surname on there.
posted by killdevil at 3:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]

OK. What the fuck is wrong with you?

It's an historical artifact of considerable value. We don't know anything about the financial situation of the family selling it -- perhaps they're in dire straits? I'm sure it will end up in a museum at some point.
posted by killdevil at 3:27 PM on July 27, 2013

Schindlers pissed.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:27 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]

People who bought this item also bought
WWE Bad Blood 2003 DVD SEALED Ric Flair...
$7.49
Buy It Now
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 3:28 PM on July 27, 2013 [11 favorites]

It's an historical artifact of considerable value.

Yes, but I doubt it's of much historical value, mainly just collector one-upmanship value because of the movie. There are no historical unknowns to be solved or gleaned from further forensic analysis of it, or any other study that can't be conducted from a simple reproduction. If the piece of paper vanished in a puff of smoke, there would be no loss of history or knowledge, hell, it would take forensic analysis to distinguish the original from a replica. The value seems to me to be sentimental and/or peacocking.
posted by anonymisc at 3:41 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

It always amazes me what shows up on eBay. This, for example, moved me to join both eBay and Metafilter. I was apparently outbid on ebay, as I still don't own a 1973 Rolls Royce with RDNZL plates.
posted by TedW at 3:44 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

(Still, it's kind of nice when museum displays include originals, not just reproductions)
posted by anonymisc at 3:44 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Anonymisc, are you trolling? It's an artifact from the Holocaust. The HOLOCAUST. Not of much historical value? Get real.
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 3:44 PM on July 27, 2013 [11 favorites]

He explained what he means very clearly.
posted by thelonius at 3:47 PM on July 27, 2013 [9 favorites]

The same seller has this currently listed for sale for $30,000:

Rosa Parks 3 Pages of Handwritten Notes about Bus Boycott & Meeting MLK

This is one lucky person! They have two significant, collectable originals in their possession to sell on Ebay.

I call fake...
posted by JujuB at 3:50 PM on July 27, 2013 [8 favorites]

I have to disagree, anonymisc. I think it has inherent value to many just by not being a replica, just as the originals of many great paintings have inherent value just by not being reproductions, regardless whether they have any new information.
posted by windykites at 3:52 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]

The day has already arrived when some among us claim that the events of the Holocaust never happened. While they cannot be convinced of anything (in that their problem isn't a lack of evidence but of brains) having the originals exist and accessible can prove that they are wrong. It matters.
posted by 1adam12 at 3:59 PM on July 27, 2013 [8 favorites]

Well, one museum head says this version is a copy, not worth the $3mil. And of the three other existing copies, two are at the Yad Vashem museum in Jerusalem while the third is at Washington's Holocaust Museum.
posted by Ideefixe at 4:03 PM on July 27, 2013

This is one lucky person! They have two significant, collectable originals in their possession to sell on Ebay.

The Ebay seller is a historical artifacts dealer conducting the auction on behalf of the document's current owner. The dealer says, "[Itzhak] Stern's nephew (in Israel) sold it roughly three years ago to the current owner, who bought it as an investment."
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:07 PM on July 27, 2013

Any fool can see this was done in Microsoft Word using the default font and margins.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]

"The item is located in Israel. Free local pickup only. Contact us for details." i.e. item must stay in Israel?
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 4:13 PM on July 27, 2013

The same seller has this currently listed for sale for $30,000:

Rosa Parks 3 Pages of Handwritten Notes about Bus Boycott & Meeting MLK

This is one lucky person! They have two significant, collectable originals in their possession to sell on Ebay.

I call fake...


I obviously can't speak to the list's authenticity, but I don't see a reason to automatically label this as fake. There is a market for expensive, historical documents. How much does eBay charge as commission? How much does Christie's or Sotheby's charge as commission? It's the 21st century. People are getting used to buying everything over the internet. Dealers of historic artifacts are no different from other businesses, they adapt to the changing times.

And the dealer has an excellent Positive Feedback rating. Although, to be fair, they mostly seem to have been selling pajamas before this.


posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [5 favorites]

Yes, but I doubt it's of much historical value, mainly just collector one-upmanship value because of the movie. There are no historical unknowns to be solved or gleaned from further forensic analysis of it, or any other study that can't be conducted from a simple reproduction. If the piece of paper vanished in a puff of smoke, there would be no loss of history or knowledge, hell, it would take forensic analysis to distinguish the original from a replica. The value seems to me to be sentimental and/or peacocking.
posted by anonymisc at 6:41 PM on July 27 [+][!]

I disagree. By this logic, all sorts of historical documents would be useless once they've been digitized or copied by other means. The US Constitution catches fire? No big deal, the National Archives has already digitized it, and besides, doesn't that info appear in every high school American history textbook?
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 4:25 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

Obviously we need the US Constitution in case, like the Declaration of Independence, there is a hidden map on the back.
posted by sexymofo at 4:31 PM on July 27, 2013 [11 favorites]

Obviously we need the US Constitution in case, like the Declaration of Independence, there is a hidden map on the back.

I turns out that it's just the maze and coloring page from the back of a Denny's placemat. The Constitutional Convention did a ton of late-night meetings over coffee and Grand Slam platters.
posted by Strange Interlude at 4:39 PM on July 27, 2013 [7 favorites]

I have never wanted to fake a bid so much in my entire life, just to see the story on it. Might almost be worth some overzealous prosecutor putting me in prison.
posted by Etrigan at 4:46 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Overwhelmingly Polish Jews (Ju. Po.). Next to No. 698 Leo Knoblach it says BV/RD? Any idea what that means?
posted by three blind mice at 4:59 PM on July 27, 2013

It's an historical artifact of considerable value. We don't know anything about the financial situation of the family selling it -- perhaps they're in dire straits? I'm sure it will end up in a museum at some point.

Yes, but in that case you go to Christies or Sotheby's or whatever the Israeli auction house of record is. You need to have things authenticated, and everything needs to be properly certified and bonded and stuff. That way you can also facilitate getting it into the proper hands (a research archive or museum or the like), make sure collectors who might be interested will be aware of the sale, etc. It also means you don't have to invite the buyer around to your house to pick it up in person -- big auction houses know the correct way to ship items like this.

The problem isn't that the owner chose to sell. The problem is that the owner threw it up on eBay and is like "sure just come by whenever and pick it up".
posted by Sara C. at 5:07 PM on July 27, 2013 [6 favorites]

Yes, but I doubt it's of much historical value

I understand why you would say that, but you're wrong for a very important reason. Even beyond the simple ineffable thrill of having a face to face encounter with a genuine artifact that played a crucial role in our history, it's important to recognize the evidentiary value of these kind of artifacts that is separate from the information they convey. The way in which they conveyed that evidence is important as well. Everything about the tangible, physical qualities of such an artifact is crucial to a full understanding of the historical events in which they played a part.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 5:11 PM on July 27, 2013 [4 favorites]

Ben Kingsley (as Schtern) gives a pretty good little speech in the movie about why the physical object of "the list" is important, beyond merely the names and information it conveys.

Can't remember it verbatim, but I recall lines like "goodness surrounds its margins," etc.
posted by ShutterBun at 6:29 PM on July 27, 2013

This is horrible. I can't decide if I want the list or this other item and I can't afford both.
posted by orme at 6:32 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Thank goodness they take Paypal.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 7:01 PM on July 27, 2013 [3 favorites]

Itzhak Stern: This list... is an absolute good. The list is life. All around its margins lies the gulf. 
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:18 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Yes, but I doubt it's of much historical value, mainly just collector one-upmanship value because of the movie.

What a very strange thing to think.
posted by desuetude at 9:13 PM on July 27, 2013 [2 favorites]

It's an historical artifact of considerable value. We don't know anything about the financial situation of the family selling it -- perhaps they're in dire straits? I'm sure it will end up in a museum at some point.

It definitely ain't my place to tell people which pieces of their own property they can sell. It just seems . . . odd for the dealer handling the sale to take an item with massive historical, cultural, and emotional resonance for kazillions of people and plunk it on eBay like a Beanie Baby or autographed baseball. I guess that's more globally democratic than the typical auction house route would be. I hope it does end up being bought by a foundation that'll put it in a museum rather than some crass jerk who sticks it on a shelf next to their Hopi katsina or gives it to David Irving to piss on in his front yard.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:29 PM on July 27, 2013

It does have historical value. People don't want to see replicas of Tut's mummy when it goes on tour once a decade (or however infrequently that happens). People who don't see Tut's mummy in person have significantly less interest in learning more about and preserving the historical record of his existence and influence.
posted by Brocktoon at 9:53 PM on July 27, 2013

People who don't see Tut's mummy in person have significantly less interest in learning more about and preserving the historical record of his existence and influence.

That's sort of a bizarre and unrealistic statement. You can care about/be interested in a thing without having had to pay to travel to see it in person.
posted by elizardbits at 10:04 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also, even if it's not "valuable" as the kind of thing that will draw crowds to a museum, that doesn't mean it has no academic or research value as an object.
posted by Sara C. at 10:07 PM on July 27, 2013 [1 favorite]

Next to No. 698 Leo Knoblach it says BV/RD? Any idea what that means?

That was surprisingly difficult to find anywhere online, but I got stubborn about it. BV turns out to be an abbreviation for Berufsverbrecher, meaning that it wasn’t his religion; he was a “professional criminal.” RD, or Reichsdeutsch, means that although Leo was Polish, he was considered an ethnic German.

Another person near the end of the list is described as PSV, which again is not a religion, but Politischer Sicherheits Verwahrte, or “political security prisoner.”

More abbreviations (from the camp records at Dachau) are here.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:56 AM on July 28, 2013 [12 favorites]

Thanks, justsomebody, that's the line I was looking for.
posted by ShutterBun at 1:01 AM on July 28, 2013

Historically significant to be sure, but I don't know why I'd spend a cool $3 million on a destructable, analog copy of it when there's clearly a high-quality version of it online.
posted by maus at 1:32 AM on July 28, 2013

How much does eBay charge as commission?

$250 on this auction apparently, using their calculator.

Blows my mind actually, because ebays fees on cheaper stuff in the $1-500 range fucking suck. It's basically 10%.
posted by emptythought at 3:48 AM on July 28, 2013

How much does eBay charge as commission? How much does Christie's or Sotheby's charge as commission? It's the 21st century.

That's how mavericks do it; it's as easy* as selling the governor's jet on eBay.

*i.e. not easy.
posted by ersatz at 4:30 AM on July 28, 2013

Color me skeptical, also. It seems unlikely that someone who wanted to realize the highest price for such an item wouldn't go through more traditional channels. Even smaller auction houses are experienced at knowing the market for such things and finding likely buyers. That's what auctioneers do. Also, no reputable dealer promises to authenticate an item after a bid; accompanying affidavits should be provided with the item. Also also, 3 mill is either unrealistic or wildly unrealistic, I can't decide which. Historical documents, even very rare ones, just don't fetch that kind of cash, IME, and they certainly don't as opening bids.

That said, I guess it's possible.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:06 AM on July 28, 2013

The seller may also conduct further screening of bidders, including requiring additional documentation on the ability to make payment and/or requesting a deposit via PayPal or credit card before being allowed to bid/continue bidding, regardless of eBay feedback history.

Am I wrong to think this is their point?
posted by corb at 2:45 PM on July 28, 2013

I think that is not really what eBay is for, though. When you want to make sure you're selling your priceless artifact to someone who can definitely pay, you go to an auction house. They have people for that.
posted by Sara C. at 3:41 PM on July 28, 2013