An actual piece of race horse is placed inside each barrel for flavor
August 9, 2013 8:07 AM   Subscribe

 
Surprisingly it is not with a headbutt.
posted by Literaryhero at 8:10 AM on August 9, 2013


Is there actually a bourbon argument other than "why am I not drinking a proper whisky?"
posted by MartinWisse at 8:15 AM on August 9, 2013 [13 favorites]


or punching someone and taking their bourbon.
posted by The Whelk at 8:15 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]




Don't make me headbutt you, The Whelk!
posted by Literaryhero at 8:17 AM on August 9, 2013 [3 favorites]


Ugh. This is a list of the six (seven?) douchiest possible ways to talk about bourbon, or any other issue of personal taste for that matter. I'm sure they're offered "humorously," but even so.

I'll bet the author is one of those guys who, when he goes to parties, sits in a corner with 2-3 of his friends, mocking everyone else in the room and guffawing about their HILARIOUS wit, until someone comes over to say hi and they all get really quiet.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 8:18 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


My favourite way of winning an argument about bourbon/whiskey/etc is to explain that diet coke really ruins the flavour but regular coke and coke zero are pretty good. The best is of course Dr Pepper. Everyone goes silent with horror and I have won.
posted by elizardbits at 8:21 AM on August 9, 2013 [51 favorites]


The first time I went to a fancy cocktail bar as a 21 year old, the bartender asked what I like, to which I responded Long Islands. It's a credit to the bartender and the establishment that he didn't laugh me out of the place, and instead made me something that I enjoyed. I cringe every time I remember that though.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:23 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


See, this is why I like scotch so much more. You can actually win arguments about scotch using axiomatic, fundamental logic and sense: "The price of my scotch is higher than the price of your scotch. QED."
posted by cthuljew at 8:32 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


MartinWisse, bourbon is delicious. Some people prefer whisky that tastes like dirt-on-fire, while some of us prefer a dram that tastes like sunlight hugging a piece of amber dipped in honey. Neither of us are wrong, it's just a preference. And your preference is wrong.
posted by 1adam12 at 8:34 AM on August 9, 2013 [26 favorites]


I once stopped a long, dull, diatribe on "true" single malt scotches by starting an impromptu sing along of "All the single malts..." in the style of Beyonce. It helped that I am a tall, bearded fellow doing a booty shake and twitching my index finger back and forth. The speaker was so horrified he walked away dragging his jaw on the floor. I could then pick up my PBR tallboy and go about my business. So yes, I can verify that the reverse snobbery trick does work. Very well, in fact.

Please note that I have worked for distilleries and breweries. I know enough about various cocktails, liquors and beers to order what I like and to help people find something that they will like. What I dislike is the fetishisation of the object, whether it be an Islay single malt, a microbrewed IPA, or any other thing that reeks of the coy elitism of: "I have this just so I can say I own it. But now I'm going to beat you over the head with how great it is so you feel bad for not being me and not having this."
posted by 1f2frfbf at 8:34 AM on August 9, 2013 [13 favorites]


I prefer my liquor clear and was prepared to roll my eyes back into the top of my neck.

Some funny takedowns and excellent turns of phrase means I'm going to forward this to my gal friend from Louisville (who I think will get this).

Thanks for posting.
posted by mistersquid at 8:34 AM on August 9, 2013


You can also play the "I'd be drinking rye if any bars around here stocked it" card, and proceed to reeducate your opponent's misguided notion that Manhattans are made with bourbon.
posted by usonian at 8:39 AM on August 9, 2013 [6 favorites]


One wins an argument about bourbon by taking one's glass of bourbon, turning one's back, and walking the fuck away from the douchebag who wants to waste my fucking time arguing about bourbon rather than enjoying it.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:43 AM on August 9, 2013 [11 favorites]


I miss the days when it was fun to find somebody who knew a thing or two about things like beer or whiskey or cooking or whatever, or to know a thing or two yourself.

Now it seems like there's this frantic race to be a super-duper-expert about so many such things.

I don't know why, but it's getting kind of tedious, IMHO.

And it all seems so exhausting...
posted by Fists O'Fury at 8:49 AM on August 9, 2013 [6 favorites]


As a lifetime Louisville, KY resident (~1 hour from 99% of the world's bourbon), the pop-culture bourbon world frightens and confuses me.

But I really would like to hear the "Girl You Wish You Hadn't Talked To At A Party" utter this one:
There are five golden tickets in every batch of this bourbon, and if you get one, Tom Waits calls you via VoIP and sings you a song using only native Bourbon County distillery label contents and any 25 words of your choosing as the lyrics.
posted by DigDoug at 8:54 AM on August 9, 2013


Rob Roy or Manhattan. It's a hard choice, indeed. Need more data.
posted by bonehead at 8:55 AM on August 9, 2013


I am a devoted bourbon drinker but I try very hard not to cultivate expensive tastes as I don't care to spend huge amounts of money on my vice. Explaining this usually checks the snobs and raconteurs.

Someday I should surreptitiously record a hipper-than-thou conversation among moonshine aficionados. They make legal-whiskey snobs look like amateurs.
posted by workerant at 9:02 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Fists O'Fury: "I miss the days when it was fun to find somebody who knew a thing or two about things like beer or whiskey or cooking or whatever, or to know a thing or two yourself.

Now it seems like there's this frantic race to be a super-duper-expert about so many such things.

I don't know why, but it's getting kind of tedious, IMHO.

And it all seems so exhausting...
"

I call this behavior the curatorial mode when I discuss it with myself, and I tend to think that it probably has its origins in media appreciation, but that's just a hunch. It annoys the hell out of me even as I'm pretty frequently guilty of approaching things I like that way myself, which is probably common enough. I'm earnestly curious as to whether it's an actual trend, and if so, how it originated and spread. But enough of non-whisk[e]?y talk.
posted by invitapriore at 9:04 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


This house believes bourbon creams are superior to custard creams.
posted by biffa at 9:12 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


For alcohol, at least, I would equate it with wine pedantry, but in general I assume that didactic wittering has existed since the first cave person discovered that they had a strongly held opinion about something not vital to survival.
posted by elizardbits at 9:12 AM on August 9, 2013 [3 favorites]


Some people prefer whisky that tastes like dirt-on-fire, while some of us prefer a dram that tastes like sunlight hugging a piece of amber dipped in honey.

Why not both?
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:16 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


My favourite way of winning an argument about bourbon/whiskey/etc is to explain that diet coke really ruins the flavour but regular coke and coke zero are pretty good. The best is of course Dr Pepper. Everyone goes silent with horror and I have won.

My father-in-law performed some amazing services of storm-damaged-tree-cleanup for my wife and me while we were in Mexico, and to think him we arranged to bring back a bottle of really nice aged Cuban rum for him. Which he proceeded to put away in a flurry of rum-and-caffeine-free-diet-cokes. We were a little anguished, but figured that in the end a person's entitled to enjoy their liquor the way they want to...
posted by COBRA! at 9:25 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Snobbery is a tedious thing. Ironic snarky counter/faux-snobbery I find sometimes a guilty pleasure, and other times tragically hip. What I really wish for in this world is a generous interest in expanding other people's horizons, but this is apparently an eye-rollingly communist attitude toward knowledge and education.
posted by DrMew at 9:28 AM on August 9, 2013


Just refer to your bottle of Pappy Van Winkle that you're saving for ...something.

And if you actually have a bottle, can I come over?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 AM on August 9, 2013


Unlike many I've actually done a semi-scientific experiment on bourbon. I worked in a grossly over-stocked bar and was curious about which brands to recommend. I did a variety of cocktails and taste-tested them all (just a sip or two and then in the sink). Surprisingly the one that came through with the most characteristic bourbon flavor when mixed from about 20 contenders was the pedestrian Old Grand Dad Bottled in Bond...
posted by jim in austin at 9:30 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


So, bourbon has become yet another thing I can't continue enjoying in public because it's become the latest fetish-du-jour of douches? That's just fuckin' peachy.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:35 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


It started OK (the Wheybedder), but then just got way too ridiculous.

I like Bulleit Bourbon and Rye. Both are good values. Up a notch, I enjoy Blanton's.

Bourbon is delicious. I once had a fever dream to create a series of non-alcoholic bourbon-flavored soft drinks, just so I could sip them all day at work.

I haven't given up yet!

bourbon has become yet another thing I can't continue enjoying in public because it's become the latest fetish-du-jour of douches

Sure you can. It's easy. Stop caring about what people who don't know you aren't really thinking about you anyway.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:36 AM on August 9, 2013 [4 favorites]


Slight meta-note about the article: if you get everything with a grey overlay on it, go into AdBlock and create a new rule that blocks <DIV id="takeover"> to get rid of it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:39 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Is there actually a bourbon argument other than "why am I not drinking a proper whisky?"

I really like you, but you are...wrong. Very wrong.

I say this as someone whose liquor collection has overflowed the cabinet (so to speak) and now occupies a side table and also a little bit of floorspace, and is 80% brown liquors. The whiskies are mostly Islays; the bourbons and ryes are various.

I can attest that they are all delicious, they all suit a purpose or mood.

Also, if you don't like bourbon, that is okay. More for me!
posted by rtha at 9:40 AM on August 9, 2013 [4 favorites]


T.D. Strange: "Just refer to your bottle of Pappy Van Winkle that you're saving for ...something.

And if you actually have a bottle, can I come over?
"

I have a friend who is super into bourbon and is the type to both pay the hefty sums of money that a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle costs and promptly sign up for the pre-order lists at the local fancy booze store when they open up, but is also the type who loves to cook a shit-ton of food and have a bunch of people over to drink and enjoy his bourbon as long as we grant him the opportunity to talk about how awesome each bourbon is as he passes it around the table. He's like a giddy little kid about how much he loves the stuff and wants everyone else to love it too, it's totally endearing. I tend to think that's what real enthusiasm looks like.
posted by invitapriore at 9:43 AM on August 9, 2013 [10 favorites]


I have to stop reading this thread because its not socially acceptable to start drinking bourbon at noon
posted by The Whelk at 9:48 AM on August 9, 2013 [6 favorites]


It depends on your social circle, The Whelk! Here you are among very accepting friends
posted by nicebookrack at 9:55 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


I am a devoted bourbon drinker but I try very hard not to cultivate expensive tastes as I don't care to spend huge amounts of money on my vice

As someone who watched a whole bunch of Justified recently and has been curious about trying bourbon, you are speaking my language. Booze is expensive in Canada, and bourbon seems to only have 2 price tiers--"normal booze price" and "too expensive for a tryout". Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?
posted by Hoopo at 9:59 AM on August 9, 2013


Each of the bottles in the small batch has been personally frowned at by a heavyset man.

And they told me the secret ingredient was love.
posted by Spatch at 10:12 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


The Whelk: I have to stop reading this thread because its not socially acceptable to start drinking bourbon at noon

oh shit
posted by notsnot at 10:13 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?

Maker's Mark and Woodford Reserve should be pretty affordable, widely available and are quality starters. Bulleit, Four Roses, Buffalo Trace (regular, not Eagle Rare unless you really like your spirits to burn on the way down) and Evan Williams are also good starter choices, but I'm unsure if you can find them in Canada. All of the above come in single barrels too as the next tier up, and after that you'll quickly get into "too expensive to try on a whim" territory.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:13 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?

If you want "bang for the buck", I recommend Buffalo Trace. Priced on the low end, but feels mid-range. For a few dollars more, Larceny, but it's a little rougher.

If you want the true Justified experience, go to the top-shelf and find Blanton's. That's the stuff Art Mullen pours, and anything that gets you closer to being Art is badass.

Whether or not you make a "big mistake" is largely a function of volume, not price.
posted by cyclopticgaze at 10:15 AM on August 9, 2013 [5 favorites]


Most bourbons taste cloyingly sweet to me. I have tasted a few that were delicious, with just a trace of sweetness -- but they turned out to be pretty expensive. Does anyone have a recommendation for a modestly priced bourbon that's not so sweet? (In general, my preferences run toward a nice peaty scotch.)
posted by fikri at 10:17 AM on August 9, 2013


1f2frfbf, pics (video) or it didn't happen
posted by theora55 at 10:22 AM on August 9, 2013


• If you drink it in a perfectly still room, you will get hints of lily, mocha and leather, and you can hear the first time your mother smiled when she looked at you.
I hate pretense and snobbery, and I like this writing. I like bourbon, seldom drink in the daytime, but decided to make an exception. Please, won't you join me so I don't have to drink alone?
posted by theora55 at 10:29 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Trader Joe's sells Rebel Yell bourbon for $10 a bottle. Share and enjoy.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 10:33 AM on August 9, 2013


Does anyone have a recommendation for a modestly priced bourbon that's not so sweet?

I very much appreciate that issue. Maybe try some rye bourbons. To me, they tend to be less sweet, with more of a spice.

Bulleit Rye (green label) is a great place to start, with a low-to-mid price. That'd be my recommendation. George Dickel is on the low price end, but hasn't impressed me as much. I think I recall Redemption Rye being good, but I don't remember its price point, maybe midrange. Knob Creek Rye is more upscale, and jeez you'll feel it going down.

Go with something cheap and see if you like it. I've been all over the price range for bourbon and scotch and in the end I almost always buy the low price stuff unless it's an occasion.
posted by cyclopticgaze at 10:38 AM on August 9, 2013


(CHecks clock) 10:35am.

Staying home sick.

Bulleit, neat, skull shot-glass.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:39 AM on August 9, 2013


And if I'm AM bourboning to fight the flu, what better time for a little HST, "The Kentucky Derby is Decadent and Depraved". (PDF)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:45 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


invitapriore: "I tend to think that's what real enthusiasm looks like."

We should all be so lucky to have friends like that.
posted by danny the boy at 11:11 AM on August 9, 2013


gilrain: "I liked this a lot and was going to repost it, but then I saw the category in the URL. I guess women don't like bourbon? "

Well, I've known a lot of women who love their bourbon and whiskey. But I've only ever known men who want to talk to you about it like the conversation has a prize at the end if they win.
posted by danny the boy at 11:12 AM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


I say this as someone whose liquor collection has overflowed the cabinet (so to speak) and now occupies a side table and also a little bit of floorspace, and is 80% brown liquors. The whiskies are mostly Islays; the bourbons and ryes are various.

I can attest that they are all delicious, they all suit a purpose or mood.


There's only one thing for it: meetup at rtha's house so I can be ...convinced.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:13 AM on August 9, 2013


Thanks, cyclopticgaze. I'll give a couple of those a shot!
posted by fikri at 11:15 AM on August 9, 2013


To be honest, other than the big brands like Four Roses, I haven't seen much proper bourbon here in the Netherlands.

Currently not really in the mood for complex tasting alcoholic beverages, it having been far too hot this past month. On holiday in the south of France I mostly drunk cider from Breton or Normandy, or gin and tonic, which can be very enjoyable and refreshing even with bog standard gin.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:19 AM on August 9, 2013


My wife grew up in Kentucky. I love embracing her culture :)
posted by starscream at 11:25 AM on August 9, 2013


If you like the guy's style he also wrote this today.

Also, someone pointed out this thread to him.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:52 AM on August 9, 2013


The Whelk: "I have to stop reading this thread because its not socially acceptable to start drinking bourbon at noon"

Of course it is. To follow up one's eight a.m. bloody marys and mid-morning mimosas with anything else would be gauche.

Hoopo: " Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?"

Old Crow is good cheap whiskey. To what extent that overlaps with decent inexpensive whiskey, I cannot say.
posted by stet at 11:56 AM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


As someone who watched a whole bunch of Justified recently and has been curious about trying bourbon, you are speaking my language. Booze is expensive in Canada, and bourbon seems to only have 2 price tiers--"normal booze price" and "too expensive for a tryout". Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?

posted by Hoopo at 12:59 PM on August 9


Kentuckian and Justified fan here!

I don't know what you can find in Canada, but go to your local liquor store and tell them you want Buffalo Trace. Buffalo Trace is literally one of the world's best distilleries and arguably the best one standing in the US right now. If you can, try their Eagle Rare 10yr - it's a criminally underpriced bourbon (I paid $25 USD, I think). I hear tell that this is essentially the same whisky as Blanton's Single Barrel (ich is more than double the price last time I looked) but I can't verify it.

I also recommend:

Evan Williams Single Barrel Vintage: All the fun of drinking a 10yr old single barrel whisky, hand labeled bottle that comes out once a year, for only $25USD. It's very well-balanced and tastes fantastic--that 10 years in the barrel shows, it dwells lightly on the tongue, and it's got a lovely cinnamon-y finish.

Elijah Craig 12yr: Another criminally underpriced bourbon (I paid $23USD). I drink it, and get visions of butterscotch, vanilla, root beer, caramel, spice, oak....

Old Grandad 114: That's right, I said it. So it's got a spicy burn, but that's what makes it great, knowing that it'll put hair on your chest while still letting you enjoy the caramel and vanilla tones. Another $25USD bargain.

I hear good things about Noah's Mill, but I haven't purchased it, so I can't speak to the price.

This is all assuming, of course, that your Favorite Local Liquor Store has both the resources and the inclination to stock a decent selection of bourbon. Being in Kentucky I am admittedly spoiled, but outside the Old Kentucky Home, I have found Woodford Reserve, Knob Creek, and Maker's Mark are the brands of bourbon most commonly available. Let Maker's Mark be your bourbon of final resort.

I love love love Justified, and I'm happy to see the role that Kentucky's bourbon takes in the show. Elmore Leonard (himself a fan of Black Maple Hill) said in an interview that any bourbon in Season 1 of the show pretty much just happened by accident. Then between Seasons 1 and 2 he and some folks from the show visited Harlan County, and while in the state they toured Woodford Reserve's distillery. They came away with a sense of just how ingrained bourbon is in our culture.

Now, when you watch Justified, they're much more careful about their use of bourbon. Like some Kentuckians I've known, the characters seem to announce who they are through the bourbons they drink, and everyone has a brand they prefer:

* Raylan was drinking Ancient Age this past season, which makes sense because he's on a tight budget. But it's been established that he'll drink whatever's put in front of him, and drink a premium bourbon on a special occasion.
* His pa Arlo, on the other hand, drank Wild Turkey. Because, well, white trash.
* Robert Quarles always ordered the most expensive bourbon in the house. He's been seen with a bottle of Blanton's on the show.
* Duffy's boss Emmit Arnett poured one of the finest bourbons in the world, Pappy Van Winkle 20-year, into his coffee. The episode--which is burned into my brain-- was “For Blood or Money,” season two. Points to Duffy for turning that shit down.
* Boyd Crowder's buddy/hit man Colton Rhodes? Beer. He's from out of town, he's not really part of that world.
* Of course, many folks in Harlan County are shown consuming moonshine, which gets into just a plethora of class issues.

If alcohol is not your thing, you might consider getting your hands on Kentucky's own locally-produced soda pop, Ale-8, which has also been featured on the show (and in my house, although I've had to give it up because I need less sugar in my diet). Don't listen to Ava Crowder, Ale-8's a great pop.

(P.S. One fan to another: the Oxford American has a great article about Justified's sense of place and of history in the show, and its commitment to showing someplace other than LA or NYC or Vegas or Miami on American television. Anything portraying Kentucky in the media is normally issue-based or “Let’s save the poor ignorant Appalachians”, so it's really refreshing to see a more complex representation.

All right, I've rambled enough about both Justified and bourbon (as the man said, "Bourbon does for me what that piece of cake did for Proust"). Good luck when you shop for bourbon tonight!
posted by magstheaxe at 11:57 AM on August 9, 2013 [25 favorites]


magstheaxe, thanks for all the Justified insight. Such a great show!

I don't think that that's Blanton's in the picture of Robert Quarles you posted, though your point stands. I just know Blanton's has that very characteristic kindof hand-grenade shaped bottle. Art's the one always pouring Blanton's for the guys in the station (on duty!) like it's water.
posted by cyclopticgaze at 12:17 PM on August 9, 2013


After some googling, Robert Quarles is apparently drinking Elmer T. Glee, with a chaser of oxycontin (in Wynn Duffy's motor coach, no less). Never had it -- Elmer, that is -- so cannot comment on its quality.
posted by cyclopticgaze at 12:21 PM on August 9, 2013


Cyclopticgaze, having now re-sized that photo on my PC, I do believe you're right! It does look to have the Elmer T. Lee scrawled signature on the front of the bottle. I stand corrected!

I have much love for Elmer T. Lee, as well (y'all probably heard that he passed on recently). I can't remember what I paid for it last time I bought some, but I don't recall any sticker shock....


Also, gilrain, how the blue blazes are you finding George T. Stagg? I've yet to get my hands on any. I may be reduced to camping out in front of the distillery, or hijacking delivery trucks.
posted by magstheaxe at 12:32 PM on August 9, 2013


My favourite way of winning an argument about bourbon/whiskey/etc is to explain that diet coke really ruins the flavour but regular coke and coke zero are pretty good. The best is of course Dr Pepper.

Philistine! Root beer is the optimum choice, obviously.

(I am not actually kidding. I either drink strong peaty single-malt scotch or concoctions so sweet it will give your grandparents diabetes from sheer genetic proximity. Now that the industry is enabling me, I actually drink more bourbon than I used to.)
posted by restless_nomad at 12:34 PM on August 9, 2013


I had to get on the list for Stagg a couple years ago, but that was in Lexington, smaller stores probably have less demand. I never seen it outside the state. I actually still have about half that bottle because it's the biggest wallop in my collection and I don't get it out often.

Don't get me wrong on Eagle Rare above, it's criminally underpriced, Ive gotten it for 17-18$ on sale. I just think it's too rough to sit down and sip. But it still makes a mean julep or Old Fashioned. Grab that for your mixed bar and serve the Buffalo Trace on the rocks.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:44 PM on August 9, 2013


There's only one thing for it: meetup at rtha's house so I can be ...convinced.

We sort of did this, but it was a potluck bourbon and rye meetup at aubilenon's. It was fantastic.

I highly recommend that anyone wishing to find out which (if any) bourbons and ryes one might like use the potluck method. It's a great way to try a bunch of different kinds without laying out cash for a dozen bottles (or shots).
posted by rtha at 12:59 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Bulleit and Buffalo Trace as cheap starter bourbons? Humm. I guess I'm a real cheapass, then. At least where I live, those are both $25-30 bottles, which if I'd never had bourbon before is more than I'd probably spend on a lark.

No reason you can't get started by trying it by the drink at a bar. (Provided that you have a local bar that will serve you neat whiskey in anything other than a shot glass.) Neat, one ice cube, or with water on the side are all perfectly legitimate ways to try whatever they have available.

In terms of qualitative bang-for-your-buck, because bourbon is such A Thing right now, one alternative to consider is rye whiskey. It's my prediction that rye is going to be a big deal in the next few years, in part because there's only so much bourbon you can make, so prices are going to continue to rise as it becomes more and more popular (which is part of a general rekindling of American interest in hard spirits more complex than vodka).

You can find some really decent, inexpensive rye whiskies. Some of them have been in production since Repeal and (at least according to people who know such things) basically unchanged.

I'm a fan of Old Overholt and I think it's a good place to start out if you've never had much rye. It's very low-commitment: about $12-15 a bottle, so if you really don't like it you're not out much. If you line it up against a mass-produced 80-proof bourbon like Jim Beam, it provides a great illustration of the difference between rye and corn whiskey.

There are many ryes that are better, but it's a good place to start and it also is fine for use in classic mixed drinks that were originally made with rye before they started being made with bourbon: old fashioneds, Manhattans, Sazeracs, etc. Basically any pre-Prohibition whiskey cocktail (except those from Kentucky and Tennessee) were probably intended to be made with rye, not corn whiskey, and deserve a try in their original formulation. Personally, I think many of them are more interesting and less sweet made with rye, but it's a personal thing.

But one note about rye whiskey is that, unlike with bourbon where there are fairly strict standards that have to be adhered to in order to call a product "bourbon" (one of which is not, incidentally, anything to do with Bourbon County, KY; they make bourbon in Virginia, as well as other places), there aren't any for rye. So there are some really shitty rye whiskies, made with what is essentially industrial alcohol and flavoring. But what's life without risk?
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:01 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


bourbon seems to only have 2 price tiers--"normal booze price" and "too expensive for a tryout". Are there decent inexpensive ones, or am I going to make a big mistake tonight?

It would help if you would give your preferred price range. There is all sorts of variety from $5-$5,000.

(aforementioned) Bulleit is about $25 for 750ml. Woodford Reserve is a buck or two more.

Basil Hayden's
and Baker's are about $35-40. (It's easier Booker's or Baker's that I just don't like at all--tastes like brandy to me. Fucking B's.)

Blanton's (my fave) and Booker's are both about $50.

(all these brands of course have upscale models - aged longer, smaller batch, higher proof, etc.)

Personally, for lower budget bourbon, I stick to Jim Beam (~$15, tho I used to get it $10 for 1L), because I like it, or Old Grand-Dad (~$13).

Dislcaimer: I have no affiliation with any of those vendors, nor do I endorse any. They just seemed like the most accurate prices.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:02 PM on August 9, 2013


I guess I'm a real cheapass, then.

...

No reason you can't get started by trying it by the drink at a bar.

A real cheapass would smuggle a fifth of Old Crow into a bar in her sock.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:08 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


elizardbits: "My favourite way of winning an argument about bourbon/whiskey/etc is to explain that diet coke really ruins the flavour but regular coke and coke zero are pretty good. The best is of course Dr Pepper. Everyone goes silent with horror and I have won."

Better yet - Diet Cherry Vanilla Dr. Pepper.
posted by Samizdata at 1:54 PM on August 9, 2013 [3 favorites]


MetaFilter: didactic wittering

Thank you Madam 'Lizardbits.

Thank you mrgrimm, for saying Jim Beam was adequate. It's the only bourbon I really like, and is within a nice price range, so I was feeling rather...left out.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:56 PM on August 9, 2013


MartinWisse: "I say this as someone whose liquor collection has overflowed the cabinet (so to speak) and now occupies a side table and also a little bit of floorspace, and is 80% brown liquors. The whiskies are mostly Islays; the bourbons and ryes are various.

I can attest that they are all delicious, they all suit a purpose or mood.


There's only one thing for it: meetup at rtha's house so I can be ...convinced.
"

Party or it's a lie.
posted by Samizdata at 2:01 PM on August 9, 2013


Fun fact to annoy your fellow Bourbon snob, there are only 8 distilleries making all of the bourbon you drink today.

Most are custom blends that are bottled and labeled to give the impression some small family was hand-making this stuff in small batches. Actually most mash is bought bulk from Illinois and the small labels just barrel it, mix with existing aged stock and sell as their own. Nowadays some labels are introducing wood chips to the mash to accelerate the 'aging' process. There is a boom going on and there is only so much 8 year to go around.

Do me a favor. Keep the hype on bourbon and leave the rum market alone. I like having to only pay $35 for some of the best rum in the world.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:11 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sorry, I meant Indiana, not Illinois. MPGI (formerly LDI) supplies a vast amount of mash to distillers big and small. Its hard for some to swallow, that all that fancy bourbon is made by a company with such a sterile website.

For a more extensive distiller list check this out.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:19 PM on August 9, 2013


there are only 8 distilleries making all of the bourbon you drink today

That list is definitely not complete, as it doesn't include A. Smith Bowman in Virginia, which produces a number of small-batch products and may or may not (they are a bit cagey about this) also produce stuff sold under Buffalo Trace's various labels. They are owned by the same parent company as Buffalo Trace, IIRC.

It used to be an independent company and used to produce a wide variety of spirits (from a whopping big factory in Fredericksburg), but now they are down to just a single pot still and produce only bourbon. My impression is that Buffalo Trace bought the operation more for its warehouse full of product than the actual distillation capacity, but they still turn out a few bottles now and then.

I think your link is correct in its assertion that the mash (and possibly the primary beer distillate; again they're a bit cagey about that) is imported in bulk; there's no actual on-site fermentation at many distillers aside from the biggest ones. But I don't think that's atypical or really indicative of poor quality; traditionally many distillers only did distillation and had the fermentation done off-site.

Then there is also Reservoir Distillery in Richmond, which claims to be producing legally-qualified bourbon on-site, but I haven't been down there to check it out. Based on the label it is not "straight bourbon" so it could be a blend including someone else's product (likely, considering how new they are).
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:30 PM on August 9, 2013


I have to stop reading this thread because its not socially acceptable to start drinking bourbon at noon

As I get older my bedtime gets earlier and earlier and most nights I'm asleep before 10. I eat dinner around 6:30 but if I drink after that I just get sleepier all the faster. Drinking in the afternoon (assuming I'm not at work) makes the most sense for me!
posted by zardoz at 2:35 PM on August 9, 2013


as it doesn't include A. Smith Bowman in Virginia

They don't make Bourbon, they make Whiskey, so they are listed in my second link. A Smith is owned by Buffalo and until recently redistilled Buffalo Trace's Bourbon and sold it as Virginia Gentlemen and a few other labels. They are now making their own white.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:40 PM on August 9, 2013


It's been a while since I bought myself bourbon, but yeah, Eagle Rare is a steal. There's also that Corner Creek stuff for a little less.

I'm more of a rye guy, though. The Rittenhouse 100 is my standard; the burn is richer and deeper compared to most of of the upstarts. Maybe I'm weird but I find some ryes are smooth to the point of insipidness (Templeton, I'm looking at you).

Going back to the theme, I'm not sure exactly why it's so easy to fall down the path of liquor snobbery. Maybe it's the sheer ease of buying a fancy bottle, drinking it, and rendering an opinion. Unlike other hobbies/interests, it doesn't require skills or even effort. Add to that the mystique of "adult beverages" and you've got a pretty compelling package. I mean, I've certainly been there, and it took me a while to depolarize and chill out about people ordering vodka martinis. I'm reformed and tolerant now, but every so often you have to put your foot down, like when my friend was under the impression that his vodka-and-soda was stronger than my dram of bourbon...
posted by Standard Orange at 2:42 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


But I don't think that's atypical or really indicative of poor quality.

Nor do I, one of my favorites is Black Maple Hill which is technically out of San Carlos, CA. They are a blend custom made by an independent bottler. Reason there are shortages is because the bottler has to source from the big boys, so they're 3rd in line for Bourbon. I just find it a bit misleading that made of these 'distiller's' are actually blender/bottler's. VERY GOOD BLENDERS, but blenders none the less. A close friend of mine was absolutely livid when informed his beloved Willett and Elijah Craig was not make by some 89-year-old Kentucky whiskey wizard in some converted farm house.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:45 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


there are only 8 distilleries making all of the bourbon you drink today.

I've been to the distillery at the Woodinville Whiskey Company, where they make bourbon, which is not on your list. (Pretty good bourbon, too, though my favorite product of theirs is their rye.)
posted by KathrynT at 3:02 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


KathrynT,

Older legal definitions required Whiskey to be made in Kentucky to be called Bourbon (before that it had to limited to Bourbon County), hence Jack Daniels referred to on the label as "Tennessee Whiskey". 95% of all Whiskey/Bourbon is still made in Kentucky.

Nowadays, US-produced Whiskey is called Bourbon to differentiate it self from foreign whiskey on a global market, but domestically the difference is usually 'Kentucky" v "Not Kentucky". Purist/Snobs and many distilleries still consider only Kentucky-made whiskey to be "Bourbon" even if the legal definition is much broader.

Personally, I'm surprised Kentucky distillers hasn't pushed for an EU-ish PDO over the geographic origin of whiskey. Maybe they are making too much money with custom blends or are more concerned about the international market then any local micro-distillery blurring of the lines.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 3:31 PM on August 9, 2013


Bulleit is $19 at Trader Joes. If you have one of those nearby.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 3:55 PM on August 9, 2013


So, bourbon has become yet another thing I can't continue enjoying in public because it's become the latest fetish-du-jour of douches? That's just fuckin' peachy.

Or, you could not give a fuck what other people think of you, and go on enjoying things. How is it less douchy to refuse to acknowledge something you enjoy because other people also like it.
posted by DigDoug at 5:15 PM on August 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


I want to thank everyone for all of the advice, as I sit down with a little glass of bourbon for the first time. I like it enough that I may try something a little more expensive sometime.

The local provincial liquor store has Makers Mark, Knob Creek, Bulleit, and Buffalo Trace. All are within approx $10 of each other. I went with the one with the lower middle price, Bulleit. Not the green label Rye one someone was talking about, but the orange-y label. It's nice and came with a circular ice mold I am currently freezing a large round ice cube in.

There is all sorts of variety from $5-$5,000.


Now here's the part where I shock you all. I know how every time an election comes around, you Americans like to joke about how you're coming up north to enjoy our universal health care and other assorted socialist luxuries. But there's a downside that is seldom spoken of in these conversations. Our dollar is more or less at par with yours, yet a bottle of Jim Beam is almost $30 here. Maker's Mark is like $32 a bottle, and it's on the low end. I spent $35 on Bulleit. Buffalo Trace was $40 (I don't think it's the 10-year, or if it is it didn't say so) and Knob Creek was even more I think. And this isn't, like, specialty import prices...it's pretty much the norm for everything from vodka to rum to whiskey (not scotch, the Canadian kind). A $15 bottle of booze is unheard of unless it's a mickey of Smirnoff.

Now you know the terrible truth about Canada. Be warned.
posted by Hoopo at 5:44 PM on August 9, 2013 [2 favorites]


Slight meta-note about the article: if you get everything with a grey overlay on it, go into AdBlock and create a new rule that blocks <DIV id="takeover"> to get rid of it.
Thanks, that worked. But seriously, ugh.
posted by cj_ at 7:20 PM on August 9, 2013


A $15 bottle of booze is unheard of unless it's a mickey of Smirnoff.

I'm not sure what size a mickey is, but Smirnoff's vodka typically scores very high in a multitude of taste tests.


Bowman's though (which is made about 30 mins from where I live) is not good. At all.
posted by SuzySmith at 9:53 PM on August 9, 2013


They [A. Smith Bowman] don't make Bourbon, they make Whiskey

No, they make bourbon. Says so right on the label: "VIRGINIA STRAIGHT BOURBON WHISKEY". So they're meeting the legal requirements at any rate. They also sell vodka, gin and rum under the A.S.B. name, but they're distilled elsewhere.

My understanding from people who lived near the plant is that at some point in the past they had a full soup-to-nuts operation including big column stills for primary / beer distillation, and they also did a lot of spirits besides bourbon (including some embarrassingly low-end vodka and private-label work for other producers), but that's been shut down for a while.

I think what they are bringing in from Buffalo Trace today, and brought in from other distillers prior to the acquisition, is either single or double-distilled white corn whiskey (not bourbon, since it hasn't been aged), and then they're doing a third distillation in the pot still and then aging it. It's one step further than the distilleries who are buying mash or beer, but it seems benign.

It'd be nice if they stepped up and brought the rest of the process in-house, and having been there they certainly seem to have room (heck, the place has its own rail siding), but it's not been clear to me exactly what BT intends to do with it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:57 PM on August 9, 2013


It'd be nice if they stepped up and brought the rest of the process in-house

Better to buy, mix and make some money while you save up for stills and warehousing and learn what it takes to make good bourbon. And learning is something all these upstarts are going to have to catch up on once they stop blending other people's distillate.

I went to Celebration Distillery in NOLA, the US oldest operating rum distillery ('95). They just started selling their 10 year because it took that long to finally have some 10 year. Thought it was shit, compared any Caribbean rum of comparable age and price. All the investment in the word can't make up for the fact some of those places have 300 years of knowhow. You can't buy that, you can only mix it.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 5:12 PM on August 10, 2013


This is news to me, but is bourbon/rye the new hipster drink du jour? I'm seriously asking, I have no clue. While I like me some bourbon, to be fair (and the price is usually right for it), I lovvve my scotches. I was sort of under the impression with absolutely no research and/or due diligence in thinking that scotch was 'it'. Now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense why scotch wouldn't be: higher price point for even the entry-level good stuff, can't claim buying American to (half-assedly) support the locavore trend and scotch does shamelessly put on egalitarian airs without being folksy and/or ironically about it (not implying the latter applies to american whiskeys, btw).
posted by NoRelation at 6:13 PM on August 10, 2013


It seems to be the chosen hipster drink for people who don't want to get into classic cocktails. And also the chosen drink for a whole lot of now-irritated people who just like bourbon, of course.
posted by restless_nomad at 6:15 PM on August 10, 2013


Finally a Whiskey For Horrible People
posted by usonian at 8:11 AM on August 12, 2013


I thought all whiskey was for horrible people.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:21 AM on August 12, 2013


And fuck Pappy Van Winkle, fwiw. To me, it seems like the worst sort of commodity fetish.

Has anyone tried it, and how does it compare? I refuse to pay $35 for a drink.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:06 PM on August 12, 2013


How is it less douchy to refuse to acknowledge something you enjoy because other people also like it.

I read it more as annoyance at the potential for some self-proclaimed expert to interrupt his drinking with some nonsense about how his bourbon of choice is inferior. Which I have had happen to me quite recently, and it is really fucking irritating for some snot-nosed kid to interrupt my cigar and bourbon night with his insistence that I have no idea what good bourbon is. No, kid, when I answered the question of what I was drinking with ''Watershed'', I thought you actually wanted to know, not use it as a gambit to try to show off your ''expertise ''. Blech .

As for appropriate times to start drinking bourbon, my great grandmother's daily breakfast was a cup of coffee, toast with peanut butter, and a bowl of oatmeal with bourbon in. If a respectable old lady has her bourbon at 7AM, anyone can have it before noon.
posted by MissySedai at 11:31 PM on August 12, 2013 [1 favorite]


@mrgrimm, Pappy is very good whiskey, but it's not as good as its price at this point. Plus, it's super hard to get, and there are things just as good on shelves without the massive fetish factor, so I don't chase it.

@MiltonRandKalman, you're a little off on the legal definition of Bourbon. I don't think there was ever a point where it legally had to be a Kentucky product. Jack Daniel's doesn't label itself Bourbon because they don't want to, not because of any current or past legal barrier. I don't know any Bourbon fans who cling to the "if it's not Kentucky, it's not Bourbon" line -- that's more the province of halfsmart bros coming late to the party.

Given that a large amount of the Bourbon sold in the US is actually distilled outside Kentucky, it's a hard line to sell to anybody who's paying attention. The Kentucky Distillers' Association doesn't even hew to this line.

As a sidenote, I will include that the term "Straight Bourbon" is worth looking for on labels; it's a legal term indicating the whiskey has been aged *at least* 4 years. If you don't see "straight bourbon" on the label, it's young whiskey.

It's true that there are VANISHINGLY few distillers compared to the brand proliferation on the shelves, but it's still possible to chase family-owned or family-run products. Heaven Hill is still 100% family owned, for example. Brown-Forman, who make Woodford Reserve, are a public company, but they're still controlled by the Brown family. The Sazerac company is family run, and they own Buffalo Trace -- and the BT line of whiskies has already been rightly praised in this thread. I prefer either the base Buffalo Trace (a steal) or Blanton's ($50); Eagle Rare seems to have a weird aftertaste to me. I also enjoy a lot of the Beam products (they're still largely run by the Beam/Noe families) -- Knob Creek in particular, which is actually just Jim Beam aged to 9 instead of 4 or 5 years. They also make Booker's, Baker's, and Basil Hayden's, all of which are fanTAStic; the latter is based on the rye-heavy Old Granddad mash bill, but I forget what bills are involved with the others.

Four Roses is another worth chasing, even though it's foreign-owned. I do try to avoid conglomerate whiskey (and, sadly, Bulleit is one -- that's Diageo).

What's becoming increasingly hard is avoiding what Cowderey, et. al., refer to as "Potempkin Distilleries" -- fictional operations cited on bottles offered for sale by companies who either do not yet have [any of or enough of] their own whiskey ready for market (Willett, Yellow Rose) or by companies who have no intention of doing so (is Angel's Envy in this category?). Sometimes, this is good booze (Willett in particular), but I'd prefer more transparency in labeling.

There's a great book, btw, called "Bourbon, Straight" by Charles Cowdery that's worth your time if you're curious about the history of Bourbon.
posted by uberchet at 9:00 AM on August 13, 2013


Diageo is "Liquorhemoth". I presume just about anything I can afford, they own.

:-/
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:44 AM on August 13, 2013


Not true! Beam makes good Bourbons, as does Buffalo Trace/Sazerac, Brown Forman, and Heaven Hill, just off the top of my head. Four Roses is a steal as well, though they're owned by a foreign conglomerate, too, it's just not Diageo.

My personal view is that I'll be happier with my purchase in virtually any context if I deal with a company that is controlled by specific humans vs. mindless corporate shareholders. The flatter the org, the happier I am -- both with the product and with what my money does/enables. I'm absolutely willing to spend more to do this, too, but I'm aware that's a privilege not universally available. Still, a dollar spent on bourbon goes much farther than one spent on Scotch (or Scotch-tradition) whisky -- if you leave out the very high dollar boutique distillers, it's almost hard to spend more than $50 in the bourbon aisle. OTOH, that's about where really good single malt/Scotch whisky *starts*.

Blanton's is a goddamn STEAL at $50; Eagle Rare, doubly so at about half that. The proliferation of great booze between $30 and $40 is shocking, especially when compared to the malt aisle.
posted by uberchet at 10:09 AM on August 13, 2013


In addition to looking for "straight bourbon", an alternative challenge (if you are amused by such things) is to look for "bottled in bond" bourbon, or just bottled in bond whiskey generally if you are open to ryes as well. It is not necessarily a guarantee of quality per se, but it is sort of an interesting niche of the already niche-ridden whiskey market. Plus it's the last remnant of one of the first consumer-protection / truth-in-advertising standards (1897!) that's still around in law and being used.

Bottled in Bond Bourbon has to meet the legal requirements for bourbon whiskey (51% corn, new oak charred barrels, various proof requirements, etc.), but then also must be from a single distillery in a single distilling season, be aged at least 4 years in a bonded Federal warehouse (originally guarded by a Treasury Dept agent to prevent adulteration), and be bottled at 100 proof.

There are not many of them around anymore, but there are a few, and they tend to be fairly interesting. It's probably possible to try every one on the market, if you wanted. And as whiskey obsessions go it's a pretty cheap one, given that you are drinking the effective legal equivalent (in American whiskey terms) of UK 'single malt'.

Because of the one-distillery / one-season requirement, it basically guarantees no Potempkin Distilleries, to borrow Cowderey's term. And so the list you get is more or less a who's-who of American whisky distilleries, at least of those big enough to jump through the legal hoops. It also permits year-by-year tastings of the same distillery, if you have a refined enough palate.

This is a pretty good starter list. Many of the items on that list, particularly Old Grand Dad 100 BiB, consistently make it onto "good starter bourbon" or "bang for buck bourbon" lists.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:11 AM on August 13, 2013 [3 favorites]


Kadin2048 is absolutely correct re: BiB whiskies. Sadly, I think a good chunk of those listed are gonna be hard to get. McKenna I see commonly, and the E.H. Taylor BiB is definitely available and very, very nice.
posted by uberchet at 2:25 PM on August 13, 2013


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