The Implosion of Hollywood
August 25, 2013 4:32 PM Subscribe
I hope so 2: Please God Please!
posted by eriko at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [55 favorites]
posted by eriko at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [55 favorites]
I hope so 3: The Hopening.
posted by djb at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2013 [111 favorites]
posted by djb at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2013 [111 favorites]
There are so many great long-form TV dramas out that I rarely ever feel like seeing a movie these days.
posted by zsazsa at 4:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 4:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
I hope so with a vengeance?
posted by notsnot at 4:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 4:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
Movies are much, much, less expensive to make and distribute than they ever were. What that means to independent filmmakers is that their work has much more of a chance of being seen. What that means to studios is that they want to distinguish themselves with the only thing that they have, which is money. The more money they throw at their films, trying to show that they're "better" than the movies that can be made on the cheap, than the TV shows that do what they used to do, only 13-26 times a year, the less ROI they'll have.
When "blockbuster" stops equaling "several-hundred-million-dolar-venture," I suspect things will improve. Until then, I don't have much sympathy for the studios.
posted by xingcat at 4:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
When "blockbuster" stops equaling "several-hundred-million-dolar-venture," I suspect things will improve. Until then, I don't have much sympathy for the studios.
posted by xingcat at 4:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Be careful what you wish for. According to the article, the death of the blockbuster simply means more and more sequels.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I hope so, Now in 3D!
posted by cacofonie at 4:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by cacofonie at 4:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
The $250 million movie dies, to be replaced by... The $500m movie?
All save-the-cat compliant, of course.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
All save-the-cat compliant, of course.
posted by Artw at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Does this mean the end of the blockbuster as we know it?
Nthing "oh please oh please oh please"
posted by hippybear at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2013
Nthing "oh please oh please oh please"
posted by hippybear at 4:43 PM on August 25, 2013
cacofonie: "I hope so, Now in 3D!"
3D's not doing too well either.
posted by octothorpe at 4:45 PM on August 25, 2013
3D's not doing too well either.
posted by octothorpe at 4:45 PM on August 25, 2013
Meanwhile, the biggest bombs of the summer were original properties ... Lone Ranger
?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:47 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 4:47 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
Literally all I care about is the fact that Cassie Clare's ghastly movie is bombing. Her failure fills my heart with song.
posted by elizardbits at 4:48 PM on August 25, 2013 [34 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 4:48 PM on August 25, 2013 [34 favorites]
I hope so: Die Faster
posted by jeremias at 4:51 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by jeremias at 4:51 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
I Hope So: the reboot with some actor you've never heard of instead of the name who starred in the original.
posted by localroger at 4:54 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 4:54 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Big difference between creative failure and financial. I was under the impression that even those big-budget behemoths that tanked in the States still made cash globally. As long as that's the case...
Also: I wonder what, if any, role this current generation of critically-acclaimed TV shows is playing in all of this? If "Breaking Bad," for example, has 62 40-minute episodes, that's over 40 hours of viewing time when I'm *not* watching a movie. Which is, let's say, the opportunity to watch twenty-ish fewer movies. (And with predictably higher-quality content, I might add.)
posted by chasing at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Also: I wonder what, if any, role this current generation of critically-acclaimed TV shows is playing in all of this? If "Breaking Bad," for example, has 62 40-minute episodes, that's over 40 hours of viewing time when I'm *not* watching a movie. Which is, let's say, the opportunity to watch twenty-ish fewer movies. (And with predictably higher-quality content, I might add.)
posted by chasing at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Another the sky over Hollywood is falling pretend-to-think piece? Fall's coming early this year.
posted by Kylio at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Kylio at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hope: Eternal Spring
posted by sexyrobot at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 5:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm waiting for them to make Fifty Shades of Snark.
posted by localroger at 5:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 5:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's telling that the article refers to the Lone Ranger of all things as an original property.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
I Hope So: the reboot with some actor you've never heard of instead of the name who starred in the original.
He's that guy who directed Argo!
posted by cacofonie at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
Another the sky over Hollywood is falling pretend-to-think piece? Fall's coming early this year.
Looking at the blockbuster lineup for 2014 and 2015 I can't see something not breaking, TBH.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013
Looking at the blockbuster lineup for 2014 and 2015 I can't see something not breaking, TBH.
posted by Artw at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013
A movie ticket costs about ten dollars nowadays. For that same amount, I can get a really, really good sandwich. All I ask of Hollywood is to give me at least the same amount of enjoyment that I would get from eating that sandwich.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [85 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [85 favorites]
This was a pretty thin article. I don't mean to sound petty but Spielberg said this months ago and DC and Marvel are absolutely crushing it. It must be hard watching from the sidelines.
One doesn't criticize Spielberg, but still. Real Steel, Cowboys and Aliens, Turbo, Men in Black 3? All flops.
Normal executives get fired. Spielberg gets to talk about the state of the industry.
posted by phaedon at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
One doesn't criticize Spielberg, but still. Real Steel, Cowboys and Aliens, Turbo, Men in Black 3? All flops.
Normal executives get fired. Spielberg gets to talk about the state of the industry.
posted by phaedon at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Does this mean the end of the blockbuster as we know it?
Coming next summer: In a world...where Betteridge's Law is king...
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
Coming next summer: In a world...where Betteridge's Law is king...
posted by Greg_Ace at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
As a movie executive, I cannot help but notice that I Hope So came out almost half an hour ago. What this property needs is to reconnect with it's youthful roots via a reboot.
I Hope So: The Latest Teen Idols Make It Even Worse Somehow
posted by DU at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I Hope So: The Latest Teen Idols Make It Even Worse Somehow
posted by DU at 5:03 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have no hope: The Beginnining.
posted by trip and a half at 5:04 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by trip and a half at 5:04 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's bombing critically, but is it a financial failure? I haven't been keeping track.
It's underperformed pretty badly, although arguably that's about unrealistic expectations as much as anything else. Mortal Instruments simply isn't a franchise like Twilight or The Hunger Games. Even if it didn't seem to be a derivative move (more vampires! More werewolves!) it doesn't have that kind of name recognition or that kind of crossover audience.
It took $9 million in the US over the weekend (just over), and is up to $14 million now after a midweek launch, but its not critic-proof (as e.g. Transformers is as a franchise) and it doesn't have the same overseas appeal as, say Pacific Rim. It didn't cost that much, so it won't involve anyone taking too much of a bath, but it certainly wasn't a good launch.
That, incidentally, is I think more statistical information than was contained in that article. Many of its statements are commonsensical, but it didn't seem to have much of a handle on the numbers... and it didn't really make a case for the end of the blockbuster, so much as for a world in which blockbusters get made and sometimes studios go bankrupt.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's underperformed pretty badly, although arguably that's about unrealistic expectations as much as anything else. Mortal Instruments simply isn't a franchise like Twilight or The Hunger Games. Even if it didn't seem to be a derivative move (more vampires! More werewolves!) it doesn't have that kind of name recognition or that kind of crossover audience.
It took $9 million in the US over the weekend (just over), and is up to $14 million now after a midweek launch, but its not critic-proof (as e.g. Transformers is as a franchise) and it doesn't have the same overseas appeal as, say Pacific Rim. It didn't cost that much, so it won't involve anyone taking too much of a bath, but it certainly wasn't a good launch.
That, incidentally, is I think more statistical information than was contained in that article. Many of its statements are commonsensical, but it didn't seem to have much of a handle on the numbers... and it didn't really make a case for the end of the blockbuster, so much as for a world in which blockbusters get made and sometimes studios go bankrupt.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
My husband often laughs/is exasperated when we go to movies, because, in the moment, I'll say "Yeah it was pretty good," but a few days later, I'll say "No, I didn't like it."
I think the theater experience itself sort of lulls me into acceptance (and hey I already paid for it/am having a night out), but once I have had time to think about the actual movie, I'm consistently underwhelmed.
posted by emjaybee at 5:08 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
I think the theater experience itself sort of lulls me into acceptance (and hey I already paid for it/am having a night out), but once I have had time to think about the actual movie, I'm consistently underwhelmed.
posted by emjaybee at 5:08 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
Enough of these new and risky products like R.I.P.D. and Lone Ranger: just look at where quirkiness gets you.
Say what? New? I didn't see R.I.P.D. but judging by the trailer it looks like a shot-by-shot remake of the Men in Black films. The Lone Ranger was the same convoluted bombast that Gore Verbinski did with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, replacing pirates with cowboys.
These are not new and "quirky" films; they are exactly the kind of big budget behemoths the studios bet on summer after summer.
posted by zardoz at 5:12 PM on August 25, 2013 [23 favorites]
Say what? New? I didn't see R.I.P.D. but judging by the trailer it looks like a shot-by-shot remake of the Men in Black films. The Lone Ranger was the same convoluted bombast that Gore Verbinski did with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, replacing pirates with cowboys.
These are not new and "quirky" films; they are exactly the kind of big budget behemoths the studios bet on summer after summer.
posted by zardoz at 5:12 PM on August 25, 2013 [23 favorites]
As Edward Jay Epstein endlessly chronicles, the "cost to release" vs. "American box office" numbers say very little about the actual financial returns of making a movie, and he claims with some plausibility that no major Hollywood movie has ever actually lost money because every such film is primarily an intricately structured financial deal where orders of magnitude of profit are hidden before it ever comes to "box office returns". You hear "points on gross, not net" frequently as conventional wisdom, but underlying the skyrocketing salaries of major stars is the fact that their agents became aware decades ago that there were vast seas of money swirling beneath the financial statements, and the surest way a bankable star could get a piece of that was to avoid trying to take a percentage and simply take a flat fee in the multi-millions.
Any story about a crisis in Hollywood financing based on poor box office returns is a story about a crisis that doesn't really exist, at least insofar as it suggests that studios are actually losing money and thus might not continue to turn out barrels of whale shit like the Lone Ranger.
posted by fatbird at 5:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [22 favorites]
Any story about a crisis in Hollywood financing based on poor box office returns is a story about a crisis that doesn't really exist, at least insofar as it suggests that studios are actually losing money and thus might not continue to turn out barrels of whale shit like the Lone Ranger.
posted by fatbird at 5:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [22 favorites]
I think the theater experience itself sort of lulls me into acceptance (and hey I already paid for it/am having a night out), but once I have had time to think about the actual movie, I'm consistently underwhelmed.
That's the save-the-cat - the movie wasn't a real story, just a bunch of incident squished into an emotional arc that simulates a story. As soon as that fades it falls apart completly.
posted by Artw at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
That's the save-the-cat - the movie wasn't a real story, just a bunch of incident squished into an emotional arc that simulates a story. As soon as that fades it falls apart completly.
posted by Artw at 5:14 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
I've actually seen a pretty good number of films this year...
*Mama
*Evil Dead
*Stories We Tell
*Oblivion
*Pacific Rim
*The Conjuring
*You're Next
...and I really enjoyed most of them, and even Oblivion isn't awful. Sorry if people are seeing movies that blow, but I assure you the problem isn't the selection.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
*Mama
*Evil Dead
*Stories We Tell
*Oblivion
*Pacific Rim
*The Conjuring
*You're Next
...and I really enjoyed most of them, and even Oblivion isn't awful. Sorry if people are seeing movies that blow, but I assure you the problem isn't the selection.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
This was a pretty thin article.
Agreed. Not to rag on the FPP too much, but this was pretty much a brief rehash (and perhaps hindsight confirmation) of the same story that was going around a few months ago.
posted by ShutterBun at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Agreed. Not to rag on the FPP too much, but this was pretty much a brief rehash (and perhaps hindsight confirmation) of the same story that was going around a few months ago.
posted by ShutterBun at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've seen two excellent movies this year, Frances Ha and Blue Jasmine. As long as the not-Hollywood machine continues to produce a couple of gems a year, I'm happy.
posted by COBRA! at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by COBRA! at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I Hope So 4: Who Needs Theaters When You Have a DVD Player
posted by cosmic.osmo at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by cosmic.osmo at 5:21 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
But a close look at this summer's grosses suggest a more worrisome possibility: that the studios will become more conservative and even less creative.
They'll eventually become so conservative and so uncreative that they vanish into a black hole. And we'll all be better off. I don't consider this worrisome, I think they can all just go to hell.
posted by JHarris at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
They'll eventually become so conservative and so uncreative that they vanish into a black hole. And we'll all be better off. I don't consider this worrisome, I think they can all just go to hell.
posted by JHarris at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, the biggest bombs of the summer were original properties ... Lone Ranger
?
"Original properties" that were neither sequels nor reboots
posted by ogooglebar at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2013
?
"Original properties" that were neither sequels nor reboots
posted by ogooglebar at 5:23 PM on August 25, 2013
even Oblivion isn't awful.
Heh. I would contest that statement. It was pretty but dull and derivative even before it took a swerve into being completely preposterous.
But I knew what I was getting into when I rented it, it's Elysium being dumb as fuck that's the real bummer this year. With a little scripting effort it could have been so much better.
posted by Artw at 5:24 PM on August 25, 2013
Heh. I would contest that statement. It was pretty but dull and derivative even before it took a swerve into being completely preposterous.
But I knew what I was getting into when I rented it, it's Elysium being dumb as fuck that's the real bummer this year. With a little scripting effort it could have been so much better.
posted by Artw at 5:24 PM on August 25, 2013
I hope so X: Jason Meets Hope.
posted by eriko at 5:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by eriko at 5:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
I hope so: Floats.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
But I knew what I was getting into when I rented it, it's Elysium being dumb as fuck that's the real bummer this year. With a little scripting effort it could have been so much better.
I feel like if Oblivion is the worst movie I see in a theater in 2013, 2013's a pretty good year for movies. It's a beautiful house with no one home, but it's no Daredevil, no The Matrix Reloaded.
I haven't seen Elysium yet, but I hope that the disappointment everyone's expressed with it means that we can have a serious critical reevaluation of District 9, because what is the big deal about that thing, man. Yes, it's a great-looking movie, and it's kind of a fresh premise, but is this really the face of Serious Science Fiction now, this thunderingly obvious metaphor dressed up with a lot of 'splosions and hammy overacting and goofy jokes? I feel like people are so starved for a real sci-fi film that a lot of praise was heaped on this one that it didn't quite earn.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
I feel like if Oblivion is the worst movie I see in a theater in 2013, 2013's a pretty good year for movies. It's a beautiful house with no one home, but it's no Daredevil, no The Matrix Reloaded.
I haven't seen Elysium yet, but I hope that the disappointment everyone's expressed with it means that we can have a serious critical reevaluation of District 9, because what is the big deal about that thing, man. Yes, it's a great-looking movie, and it's kind of a fresh premise, but is this really the face of Serious Science Fiction now, this thunderingly obvious metaphor dressed up with a lot of 'splosions and hammy overacting and goofy jokes? I feel like people are so starved for a real sci-fi film that a lot of praise was heaped on this one that it didn't quite earn.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
You pay a little under $30 now for two people to go out for a movie.
We pay $11 at the matinee. Fuck spending $30 at the movies unless it's an IMAX flick (Don't disappoint me Gravity)
But I knew what I was getting into when I rented it, it's Elysium being dumb as fuck that's the real bummer this year. With a little scripting effort it could have been so much better.
Oblivion was complete shit, Elysium at least had an interesting plot and theme. Everyone knows this, what is wrong with you Artw?
I haven't seen Elysium yet, but I hope that the disappointment everyone's expressed with it means that we can have a serious critical reevaluation of District 9, because what is the big deal about that thing, man.
Yes, exactly. District 9 was gorgeous, but ridiculous.
Anyway, all I want is Pacific Rim sequel then Hollywood can implode.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
We pay $11 at the matinee. Fuck spending $30 at the movies unless it's an IMAX flick (Don't disappoint me Gravity)
But I knew what I was getting into when I rented it, it's Elysium being dumb as fuck that's the real bummer this year. With a little scripting effort it could have been so much better.
Oblivion was complete shit, Elysium at least had an interesting plot and theme. Everyone knows this, what is wrong with you Artw?
I haven't seen Elysium yet, but I hope that the disappointment everyone's expressed with it means that we can have a serious critical reevaluation of District 9, because what is the big deal about that thing, man.
Yes, exactly. District 9 was gorgeous, but ridiculous.
Anyway, all I want is Pacific Rim sequel then Hollywood can implode.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Clearly I'm the only person who somewhat enjoyed Oblivion. Put anything with Tom Cruise in it, I'll watch. Take my money. I'm not even embarassed to admit it. Free pass on all the Scientology shit.
It's the "let's throw everything at the screen, we got something for everybody" approach of Avengers and "check out this epic fucking reboot" of Superman and Star Trek and Dark Knight Rises that I really cannot stand. There is a certain self-awareness I retain while watching the movie that prevents me from getting into it. It's like, my brain is telling me I'm supposed to like this, but it's just so. goddamn. meaningless.
posted by phaedon at 5:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's the "let's throw everything at the screen, we got something for everybody" approach of Avengers and "check out this epic fucking reboot" of Superman and Star Trek and Dark Knight Rises that I really cannot stand. There is a certain self-awareness I retain while watching the movie that prevents me from getting into it. It's like, my brain is telling me I'm supposed to like this, but it's just so. goddamn. meaningless.
posted by phaedon at 5:36 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Phaedon:
Real Steel, Cowboys and Aliens, Turbo, Men in Black 3? All flops.
Real Steel made $300 million in global box office off a $100 budget; not a massive hit, but a film that performed perfectly well and will probably got into the black with ancillary markets.
Men in Black 3, with a $625 million worldwide gross against a $225 budget, is a big hit; unadjusted for inflation, it is the largest grossing of the series.
When discussing whether films are hits and flops it's important to do a few things:
1. Look at the actual box office numbers, as opposed to non-reality based opinion pieces about how the film was perceived by observers;
2. Remember to factor in global box office, because films that underperform domestically can overperform internationally (case in point: Pacific Rim, which is at $400 million globally despite "failing" domestically with $100 million, enough that a sequel is now actually a reasonable risk for the producers);
3. Keep in mind that movie studios actively hedge costs by bringing in partners, lowering their own upfront costs (and diluting their reward on the backend, but, meh). So a film that fails often hurts a studio less than you might think.
4. Remember that that outside of box office there are other very large revenue streams where films can recoup costs, TV and home video being the obvious examples there. These ancillary revenue streams are where, for example, Waterworld eventually broke even, despite being a "huge flop" when it was released -- which in point of fact it wasn't; made $85 million domestically and another $175 million internationally, well above its (admittedly ridiculous) $175 million production costs. Movie companies absolutely factor in these ancillary markets when they think about films.
To sum up: There are a surprising number of films people think are "flops" that aren't, at the very least from a financial point of view, and film studios really do look at the entire revenue life of their films, not just the immediate box office. A great box office score is awesome when you can get it, but when you can't there are still other options.
(None of the above, however, will save The Lone Ranger, which Disney is almost certain to take a write-down on, as the film globally has made only $15 million more than its production costs. Fortunately for Disney it has Iron Man 3 and Monsters University to get it through.)
posted by jscalzi at 5:37 PM on August 25, 2013 [34 favorites]
Real Steel, Cowboys and Aliens, Turbo, Men in Black 3? All flops.
Real Steel made $300 million in global box office off a $100 budget; not a massive hit, but a film that performed perfectly well and will probably got into the black with ancillary markets.
Men in Black 3, with a $625 million worldwide gross against a $225 budget, is a big hit; unadjusted for inflation, it is the largest grossing of the series.
When discussing whether films are hits and flops it's important to do a few things:
1. Look at the actual box office numbers, as opposed to non-reality based opinion pieces about how the film was perceived by observers;
2. Remember to factor in global box office, because films that underperform domestically can overperform internationally (case in point: Pacific Rim, which is at $400 million globally despite "failing" domestically with $100 million, enough that a sequel is now actually a reasonable risk for the producers);
3. Keep in mind that movie studios actively hedge costs by bringing in partners, lowering their own upfront costs (and diluting their reward on the backend, but, meh). So a film that fails often hurts a studio less than you might think.
4. Remember that that outside of box office there are other very large revenue streams where films can recoup costs, TV and home video being the obvious examples there. These ancillary revenue streams are where, for example, Waterworld eventually broke even, despite being a "huge flop" when it was released -- which in point of fact it wasn't; made $85 million domestically and another $175 million internationally, well above its (admittedly ridiculous) $175 million production costs. Movie companies absolutely factor in these ancillary markets when they think about films.
To sum up: There are a surprising number of films people think are "flops" that aren't, at the very least from a financial point of view, and film studios really do look at the entire revenue life of their films, not just the immediate box office. A great box office score is awesome when you can get it, but when you can't there are still other options.
(None of the above, however, will save The Lone Ranger, which Disney is almost certain to take a write-down on, as the film globally has made only $15 million more than its production costs. Fortunately for Disney it has Iron Man 3 and Monsters University to get it through.)
posted by jscalzi at 5:37 PM on August 25, 2013 [34 favorites]
It's the "let's throw everything at the screen, we got something for everybody" approach of Avengers...
Do not speak ill of The Avengers, if half of the Hollywood blockbusters were that good, we'd be in a golden age.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:38 PM on August 25, 2013 [16 favorites]
Do not speak ill of The Avengers, if half of the Hollywood blockbusters were that good, we'd be in a golden age.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:38 PM on August 25, 2013 [16 favorites]
In retrospect, District 9 did hinge on magic goo that was almost as ridiculous as medbays. It was easier to handwave away as a plot device and/or macguffin though. Elysium shoves its dumbest element right in your face.
posted by Artw at 5:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 5:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Men in Black 3, with a $625 million worldwide gross against a $225 budget, is a big hit; unadjusted for inflation, it is the largest grossing of the series.
You're completely correct, I was going off the American gross only. Let the shit show continue!
posted by phaedon at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2013
You're completely correct, I was going off the American gross only. Let the shit show continue!
posted by phaedon at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2013
I feel like I'm in the summer of opposite days when I hear people praising Pacific Rim and bagging on Elysium. Neither film was exactly worthy of Kubrick, but dang.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 5:41 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
I hope so, too: Electric Boogaloo
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:42 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'd just be happy if the BOOOOM goddamn lousy BOOOOM miserable fucking BOOOOM so-called sound BOOOOM "design" so BOOOOM beloved of asshole Hollywood BOOOOM filmmakers would burn BOOOOM in BOOOOM Hell where it BOOOOM so richly BOOOOM deserves to go. BOOOOM!
Plus, I wish Hollywood could acknowledge that John Williams and Ben Burtt happened and then recognize that there are all sorts of other ways to make music and sound for films.
posted by sonascope at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [17 favorites]
Plus, I wish Hollywood could acknowledge that John Williams and Ben Burtt happened and then recognize that there are all sorts of other ways to make music and sound for films.
posted by sonascope at 5:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [17 favorites]
Do not speak ill of The Avengers, if half of the Hollywood blockbusters were that good, we'd be in a golden age.
Speaking of bullshit I cannot believe, is there a Batfleck thread that I missed, where I can just fucking unload on somebody?
posted by phaedon at 5:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
Speaking of bullshit I cannot believe, is there a Batfleck thread that I missed, where I can just fucking unload on somebody?
posted by phaedon at 5:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
You pay a little under $30
That all depends on where you live. My local theater (Central California) has showings Mon-Thur at $5 (after 6pm they are $7.50). The other nearby theaters have $5 Tuesday and $5 Wednesdays for all showings all day.
My wife and go pretty much every week (or used to before our 3mo was born) and rarely spent more that $15 for both of us.
And to the point of TV being better and cheaper, well, I have to pay $25/mo more just to get the cable package with AMC and FX to be able to watch the "good" shows like Breaking Bad/Justified/The Bridge/American Horror Story. So for me TV is really not that much cheaper at all.
posted by M Edward at 5:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
That all depends on where you live. My local theater (Central California) has showings Mon-Thur at $5 (after 6pm they are $7.50). The other nearby theaters have $5 Tuesday and $5 Wednesdays for all showings all day.
My wife and go pretty much every week (or used to before our 3mo was born) and rarely spent more that $15 for both of us.
And to the point of TV being better and cheaper, well, I have to pay $25/mo more just to get the cable package with AMC and FX to be able to watch the "good" shows like Breaking Bad/Justified/The Bridge/American Horror Story. So for me TV is really not that much cheaper at all.
posted by M Edward at 5:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Saw Elysium on Friday and it was OK but felt half written. Not much of it made much sense when you thing about it for more than a few minutes. The torus was pretty cool looking though.
posted by octothorpe at 5:48 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by octothorpe at 5:48 PM on August 25, 2013
I haven't been to a first-run movie in more than a year. But ads for The Family have picqued my interest. So, there's that.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:49 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Benny Andajetz at 5:49 PM on August 25, 2013
Speaking of bullshit I cannot believe, is there a Batfleck thread that I missed, where I can just fucking unload on somebody?
No, there wasn't one. Go for it, we'll talk about how it's one of the best decisions ever.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:52 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
No, there wasn't one. Go for it, we'll talk about how it's one of the best decisions ever.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:52 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
The End... Or Is It?
posted by ovvl at 5:52 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 5:52 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
To reiterate what some have already pointed out, the nature of big films has changed especially, I think, because of the $ the studios garner in foreign film distribution. Films with simple plot and lots of explosions have an edge over the kind of movies many of us prefer.
Some have expressed the point of view that TV is better. Well, perhaps. I don't have the time to invest in those very long broken-up movies. (Although I have to admit I enjoyed Enlightenment, and feel like I should start watching Top of the Lake.)
But: the experience of watching movies in a theater is unique. Small gestures are seen and felt. Magnificent shots are hugely magnificent. Etc. (Plus, you are there, experiencing this work of art WITH OTHERS, and you can't press pause and interrupt your aesthetic commitment to the film.)
More thorough FPPs on this will appear over the next few years, I am sure.
posted by kozad at 5:53 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some have expressed the point of view that TV is better. Well, perhaps. I don't have the time to invest in those very long broken-up movies. (Although I have to admit I enjoyed Enlightenment, and feel like I should start watching Top of the Lake.)
But: the experience of watching movies in a theater is unique. Small gestures are seen and felt. Magnificent shots are hugely magnificent. Etc. (Plus, you are there, experiencing this work of art WITH OTHERS, and you can't press pause and interrupt your aesthetic commitment to the film.)
More thorough FPPs on this will appear over the next few years, I am sure.
posted by kozad at 5:53 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Seems to me the problem here is the same problem in other creative industries and in our system at large, which is nobody wants to be the decently profitable midlevel guy that makes a tidy profit and keeps going but seldom hits them out of the park. Of course, you'd be run out on a rail by investors if you even tried that, but like I said, that's the wider problem in our business culture.
As for movies specifically, maybe--and I'm just spitballing here--the problem is that going to the theater is usually asking to get bombarded by LOUD ADS for 15-30 minutes then being surrounded by cretins talking and using their phones that nobody ever bothers to throw out? Like why would you pay 10-15 bucks for that? I'm a huge film fan--was working on a film minor in college--and just about grew up at the movies and we'd just about stopped going before we moved to a place with an Alamo Drafthouse because the experience was so goddamn terrible.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:54 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
As for movies specifically, maybe--and I'm just spitballing here--the problem is that going to the theater is usually asking to get bombarded by LOUD ADS for 15-30 minutes then being surrounded by cretins talking and using their phones that nobody ever bothers to throw out? Like why would you pay 10-15 bucks for that? I'm a huge film fan--was working on a film minor in college--and just about grew up at the movies and we'd just about stopped going before we moved to a place with an Alamo Drafthouse because the experience was so goddamn terrible.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:54 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
A movie seems like such an investment in a way an episode of tv doesn't, and I find it a lot harder to know which movies to watch than which tv. I see a few movies in the theatre every year, which I generally enjoy, but I don't feel the need to see more. Maybe if I had friends who were into movies, but I don't.
And to the point of TV being better and cheaper, well, I have to pay $25/mo more just to get the cable package with AMC and FX to be able to watch the "good" shows like Breaking Bad/Justified/The Bridge/American Horror Story. So for me TV is really not that much cheaper at all.
So you pay $25/month for tv, but over $60 a month for movies, but tv isn't that much cheaper?
posted by jeather at 5:55 PM on August 25, 2013
And to the point of TV being better and cheaper, well, I have to pay $25/mo more just to get the cable package with AMC and FX to be able to watch the "good" shows like Breaking Bad/Justified/The Bridge/American Horror Story. So for me TV is really not that much cheaper at all.
So you pay $25/month for tv, but over $60 a month for movies, but tv isn't that much cheaper?
posted by jeather at 5:55 PM on August 25, 2013
No, there wasn't one. Go for it, we'll talk about how it's one of the best decisions ever.
Right casting, wrong franchise.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:55 PM on August 25, 2013
Right casting, wrong franchise.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:55 PM on August 25, 2013
No, there wasn't one. Go for it, we'll talk about how it's one of the best decisions ever.
Argo fuck yourself? Give that man an Oscar!
posted by phaedon at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Argo fuck yourself? Give that man an Oscar!
posted by phaedon at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am thoroughly enjoying watching people shit themselves over Affleck, a solid filmmaker and actor, while completely ignoring the real problem in Zack Snyder, a man who proves again and again that he knows the notes but can't hear the music.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [39 favorites]
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [39 favorites]
Incidentally, maybe the most interesting number regarding The Mortal Instruments was that it opened in twice as many theaters as The World's End and made barely more in box office takings. The World's End cost less to make, was barely promoted, relatively speaking, and features a group of middle-aged British character actors drinking.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [20 favorites]
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [20 favorites]
Right casting, wrong franchise.
Nah, he'd make a terrible Wonder Woman.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Nah, he'd make a terrible Wonder Woman.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:00 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I dunno... I'm sure you could start a tumblr that could make that case.
Affleck would make a fine Batman and better Bruce - problem is, he's a charming actor who likes to impart a bit of humanity to his roles, you know, stuff that is verboten in the grim darkness that is the new DC movieverse.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
Affleck would make a fine Batman and better Bruce - problem is, he's a charming actor who likes to impart a bit of humanity to his roles, you know, stuff that is verboten in the grim darkness that is the new DC movieverse.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
The problem with Elysium: After subjecting Matt Damon to robot cop abuse, totally unjustified parole extension, and a lethal radiation dose, that's not enough of a maguffin to drive the story and so we have to also have the ex with a five year old girl who's dying of leukemia. It's like some focus group said we need a dying kid to get the female viewers because you know all the other injustices Damon had experienced in the first half hour just wouldn't justify a bit of torus-jumping and couping and WTF with wasting Jodie Foster's character like that, anyway?
posted by localroger at 6:07 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by localroger at 6:07 PM on August 25, 2013
Pro tip: North Americans who belong to AAA/CAA can get discount coupons for ( at least one of) the theater chains in their area. Canadians can use them the day the movie opens; Usaians have to wait the time specified on the coupon; usually 10-14 days after release.
That said, I usually won't go to something which hasn't received an aggregate of good reviews.
posted by brujita at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
That said, I usually won't go to something which hasn't received an aggregate of good reviews.
posted by brujita at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I feel like I'm in the summer of opposite days when I hear people praising Pacific Rim and bagging on Elysium.
Pacific Rim is an example of a film delivering pretty much perfectly on its promises.
posted by Artw at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
Pacific Rim is an example of a film delivering pretty much perfectly on its promises.
posted by Artw at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
No, Brandon is right. Affleck is stupid enough to take the Batman role, and with any luck, that will be the end of his career. He can spend the rest of his life playing patty cake with Tobey Maguire.
posted by phaedon at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by phaedon at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2013
LOL at the casting on a Zack Snyder film mattering.
posted by Artw at 6:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Episode IV: A New Hope So.
posted by emelenjr at 6:14 PM on August 25, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 6:14 PM on August 25, 2013 [12 favorites]
Eh, it sounds like a potentially bad decision, considering the title of the movie, how much Man of Steel sucked and Zack Synder's dubious directing record.
But the movie is two or three years out and who knows what changes will happen between then and now? Hopefully something good. Affleck can be a good actor (and director), so it's senseless to harp on his addition to the film. He's not the Batman I would envision (Idris Elba anyone?), but hey, I can always choose not to see the movie.
After subjecting Matt Damon to robot cop abuse, totally unjustified parole extension, and a lethal radiation dose, that's not enough of a maguffin to drive the story and so we have to also have the ex with a five year old girl who's dying of leukemia.
Eh, Max wanted to go to ELysium to save himself. The kid forced him to be not such a selfish prick.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
But the movie is two or three years out and who knows what changes will happen between then and now? Hopefully something good. Affleck can be a good actor (and director), so it's senseless to harp on his addition to the film. He's not the Batman I would envision (Idris Elba anyone?), but hey, I can always choose not to see the movie.
After subjecting Matt Damon to robot cop abuse, totally unjustified parole extension, and a lethal radiation dose, that's not enough of a maguffin to drive the story and so we have to also have the ex with a five year old girl who's dying of leukemia.
Eh, Max wanted to go to ELysium to save himself. The kid forced him to be not such a selfish prick.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Does anyone really think that Snyder's Batman/Superman movie would be good with a different actor as Batman. I mean Cavill was OK as Superman but did that really matter?
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
He's not the Batman I would envision (Idris Elba anyone?),
Please, could you be any more ridiculous tonight? Elba clearly needs to be the next James Bond.
posted by phaedon at 6:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [21 favorites]
Please, could you be any more ridiculous tonight? Elba clearly needs to be the next James Bond.
posted by phaedon at 6:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [21 favorites]
As Edward Jay Epstein endlessly chronicles, the "cost to release" vs. "American box office" numbers say very little about the actual financial returns of making a movie, and he claims with some plausibility that no major Hollywood movie has ever actually lost money because every such film is primarily an intricately structured financial deal where orders of magnitude of profit are hidden before it ever comes to "box office returns".
Epstein also makes the important point that box office returns are at best only half the story because Hollywood writ large is more concerned about the total profits from both license and box office returns than box office returns in isolation. This is why you get so many films based on Marvel and DC comic book characters.
posted by jonp72 at 6:20 PM on August 25, 2013
Epstein also makes the important point that box office returns are at best only half the story because Hollywood writ large is more concerned about the total profits from both license and box office returns than box office returns in isolation. This is why you get so many films based on Marvel and DC comic book characters.
posted by jonp72 at 6:20 PM on August 25, 2013
The kid forced him to be not such a selfish prick.
Sorry, I don't see trying to save yourself after a run of crushed dreams and injustice as "being a selfish prick." The thing is, Damon's run of bad luck up to that point was pretty 20 roulette reds in a row as it was, putting in the dying kid (who was just conveniently really about to die RIGHT THEN) just blew out what was left of my suspension of disbelief.
It also left this story which had the potential to be about all kinds of social inequality issues being basically about health care.
posted by localroger at 6:20 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I don't see trying to save yourself after a run of crushed dreams and injustice as "being a selfish prick." The thing is, Damon's run of bad luck up to that point was pretty 20 roulette reds in a row as it was, putting in the dying kid (who was just conveniently really about to die RIGHT THEN) just blew out what was left of my suspension of disbelief.
It also left this story which had the potential to be about all kinds of social inequality issues being basically about health care.
posted by localroger at 6:20 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Speaking of which, has anybody found a reason (and I've explored the website) other than pure sadism why the medipods aren't available for use on Earth?
posted by localroger at 6:21 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by localroger at 6:21 PM on August 25, 2013
Ryan Gosling should be the next James Bond and Jodie Foster should be the next Batman.
posted by localroger at 6:24 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:24 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
Speaking of which, has anybody found a reason (and I've explored the website) other than pure sadism why the medipods aren't available for use on Earth?
No.
The DNA scan doohickey doesn't even do anything except stop poors using them.
posted by Artw at 6:24 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
No.
The DNA scan doohickey doesn't even do anything except stop poors using them.
posted by Artw at 6:24 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
He's not the Batman I would envision (Idris Elba anyone?),
Please, could you be any more ridiculous tonight? Elba clearly needs to be the next James Bond.
Why not both?
posted by fuse theorem at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Please, could you be any more ridiculous tonight? Elba clearly needs to be the next James Bond.
Why not both?
posted by fuse theorem at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I haven't seen The Lone Ranger, so maybe someone can explain to me how they can spend $215 million dollars on a freaking cowboy movie. They should have been able to spend 1/10 of that, and it would then be hailed as an amazingly profitable movie. Is it, as zardoz mentioned, just a Pirates of the Caribbean with cowboys, so they thought they had to add all the Pirates CGI filler?
Does 'blockbuster' means 100s of millions of CGI budget? Good writing costs many orders of magnitude less money.
posted by eye of newt at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2013
Does 'blockbuster' means 100s of millions of CGI budget? Good writing costs many orders of magnitude less money.
posted by eye of newt at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2013
And yes, I was rewriting Epysium in my head while watching it, I have notes on what would make the thing a classic in my mind that I could totally inflict on you. It's a movie that seems to invite that.
posted by Artw at 6:26 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Artw at 6:26 PM on August 25, 2013
I'm currently watching One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest for the first time (I know), and I can't help but think that a movie with this pacing and ... low-budget-ness (?) could ever be made today.
posted by slater at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by slater at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
It seems there might be enough material there to make a tighter edit of Elysium from the publicly available movie, like the Jar-Jar-less version of Star Wars Ep 1.
posted by localroger at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by localroger at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013
Regarding The Heat: if Hollywood continues to release only one major movie per season starring women, that film is likely to do well!
Jesus, really? Any other circumstance, the studios would be falling over themselves to make photocopies, but a film starring women does well and its excused away as a fluke because it's the only one?
This is why there aren't more movies starring women. Not because they do poorly, but because people, like this author, special plead them out of existence.
The third top grossing film of 2012 was The Hunger Games, by the way, written by a woman and starring a woman. The sixth top grossing film of 2012 was Twilight, written by a woman and starring a woman. The eighth top grossing film was Brave, written by two women and starring a female character. 17th? Snow White and the Huntsman.
The Heat has made 154 million on a 39 million budget. Maybe some more films by and about and starring women are in order.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [29 favorites]
Jesus, really? Any other circumstance, the studios would be falling over themselves to make photocopies, but a film starring women does well and its excused away as a fluke because it's the only one?
This is why there aren't more movies starring women. Not because they do poorly, but because people, like this author, special plead them out of existence.
The third top grossing film of 2012 was The Hunger Games, by the way, written by a woman and starring a woman. The sixth top grossing film of 2012 was Twilight, written by a woman and starring a woman. The eighth top grossing film was Brave, written by two women and starring a female character. 17th? Snow White and the Huntsman.
The Heat has made 154 million on a 39 million budget. Maybe some more films by and about and starring women are in order.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [29 favorites]
slater, I recently watched the Godfather trilogy for the first time and had exactly the same impression.
posted by localroger at 6:30 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:30 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
more films by and about and starring women are in order.
Be careful what you wish for. Countdown to 50 Shades of Gray in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
posted by localroger at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2013
Be careful what you wish for. Countdown to 50 Shades of Gray in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
posted by localroger at 6:32 PM on August 25, 2013
Fifty Shades of Grey comes out in just under a year. The cast is still unannounced.
posted by Justinian at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Justinian at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013
One thing I gathered from The Story of Film (I'll plug it again: it's on Netflix and will be on TCM starting in September, watch it!) was that Hollywood, and other international film industries, have collapsed before, often times creating whole new movements in film history in the process. The modern era of the huge adolescent fantasy blockbuster has only been around since (arguably) Star Wars. It's not going to last forever, and something else will replace it.
posted by codacorolla at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am sure there is the potential for more variety than just 50 Shades of Grey. This list includes some of the best films ever made.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
The little bird whispering in my ear insists that 50 shades will make 9 1/2 Weeks look like Oscar material by comparison.
posted by localroger at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
slater: "I'm currently watching One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest for the first time (I know), and I can't help but think that a movie with this pacing and ... low-budget-ness (?) could ever be made today."
And yet it was huge blockbuster. It grossed $112M in 1975 dollars which would be $486M today.
posted by octothorpe at 6:35 PM on August 25, 2013
And yet it was huge blockbuster. It grossed $112M in 1975 dollars which would be $486M today.
posted by octothorpe at 6:35 PM on August 25, 2013
Wow Bunny thank you for that link. You have just solved the problem of thinking of stuff to put in my Netflix queue for months.
posted by localroger at 6:36 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by localroger at 6:36 PM on August 25, 2013
Maybe some more films by and about and starring women are in order.
Agreed, as long as they pass the Bechdel test.
posted by slater at 6:37 PM on August 25, 2013
Agreed, as long as they pass the Bechdel test.
posted by slater at 6:37 PM on August 25, 2013
octothorpe: Oh, for sure. Oscars, other nominations, etc., I wasn't criticizing it at all. I like the movie.
posted by slater at 6:38 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by slater at 6:38 PM on August 25, 2013
Agreed, as long as they pass the Bechdel test.
Yes, or an alternative that also focuses on genuinely strong female characters.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, or an alternative that also focuses on genuinely strong female characters.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
One thing I gathered from The Story of Film (I'll plug it again: it's on Netflix and will be on TCM starting in September, watch it!)
I loved the content in that series but I had a really hard time getting past the narration. His voice is seriously sleep inducing.
posted by octothorpe at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2013
I loved the content in that series but I had a really hard time getting past the narration. His voice is seriously sleep inducing.
posted by octothorpe at 6:40 PM on August 25, 2013
Speaking of which, has anybody found a reason (and I've explored the website) other than pure sadism why the medipods aren't available for use on Earth?
He brought Crougar to their house and put them in danger. Mind, I like that Max was mostly worried about himself, it made sense in that situation.
Speaking of which, has anybody found a reason (and I've explored the website) other than pure sadism why the medipods aren't available for use on Earth?
Why isn't water available to everyone? Why are some parts of the world still dealing with diseases that medicine can take care of?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
He brought Crougar to their house and put them in danger. Mind, I like that Max was mostly worried about himself, it made sense in that situation.
Speaking of which, has anybody found a reason (and I've explored the website) other than pure sadism why the medipods aren't available for use on Earth?
Why isn't water available to everyone? Why are some parts of the world still dealing with diseases that medicine can take care of?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Agreed, as long as they pass the Bechdel test.
Yes, or an alternative that also focuses on genuinely strong female characters.
LOL at all the contortionism required there. The Bechdel test is an interesting lens to look at bodies of work with but pretty much useless as a metric for individual works, and making up new tests to include things you like that fail it and exclude things you don't like that pass it is just silly.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
Yes, or an alternative that also focuses on genuinely strong female characters.
LOL at all the contortionism required there. The Bechdel test is an interesting lens to look at bodies of work with but pretty much useless as a metric for individual works, and making up new tests to include things you like that fail it and exclude things you don't like that pass it is just silly.
posted by Artw at 6:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
slater: "octothorpe: Oh, for sure. Oscars, other nominations, etc., I wasn't criticizing it at all. I like the movie."
Sorry, I assumed you liked it, it's just amazing to me that a drama that has so little action that it was almost a stage play could have been a hit comparable to on of today's summer tent-poles. It would be like Francis Ha being one of the biggest movies of the year.
posted by octothorpe at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013
Sorry, I assumed you liked it, it's just amazing to me that a drama that has so little action that it was almost a stage play could have been a hit comparable to on of today's summer tent-poles. It would be like Francis Ha being one of the biggest movies of the year.
posted by octothorpe at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013
making up new tests to include things you like that fail it and exclude things you don't like that pass it is just silly.
I am making up a test right now that you are failing, art.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
I am making up a test right now that you are failing, art.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
Why isn't water available to everyone? Why are some parts of the world still dealing with diseases that medicine can take care of?
Significant logistical difficulties and a lack of will to overcome them?
Which would be a perfectly fine way for things to work in the movie.
posted by Artw at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013
Significant logistical difficulties and a lack of will to overcome them?
Which would be a perfectly fine way for things to work in the movie.
posted by Artw at 6:45 PM on August 25, 2013
N'thing "I hope so". Unless it's a blockbuster about a dark superhero, played by me, who cleans the city of every stunted man-child wanker who loves comics and superhero movies. It's okay, stunted man-children. Fear not. There would be lots of CGI bullshit and a "dark, adult undercurrent". And lots of incredibly gruesome slaughter of stunted man-children, who would deliver impassioned speeches about why it is actually reasonable, in the current socio-economic climate, to still be living with their parents at 28 years of age. I'd probably have a twelve year old girl who says "cunt" a lot, too. Just for the modern liberal.
posted by Decani at 6:46 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by Decani at 6:46 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
You want to see what is killing Hollywood? Someone thought it was a good idea to spend $32 Million making this piece of crap.
Sorry, Hollywood, the audience of 12 year old boys is too small to sustain your industry.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:55 PM on August 25, 2013
Sorry, Hollywood, the audience of 12 year old boys is too small to sustain your industry.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:55 PM on August 25, 2013
Significant logistical difficulties and a lack of will to overcome them?
I can see why the slum-dwellers of Earth don't have Medipods in their homes so that daily treatment can make them immortal. The thing is, as today, it's not an on-off switch but a potential continuum, and it seems unfathomable that there aren't at least a few medipods on Earth for treatment of terrible accidents and cruel and debilitating diseases. It's made clear in the final scene that deploying Medipods isn't fundamentally difficult. It just isn't done, at all, for any reason, until Elysium is hacked to force it.
I would guess the justification for this has to do with some kind of licensing arrangement, but it's very hard to imagine a circumstance under which there wouldn't be at least a few medipods on Earth for the little girls dying of leukemia and the victims of industrial accidents. Unlike the immortal residents of Elysium the poor don't need the Medipods every day, just when something goes horribly wrong. To not make them available Earthside isn't just neglect but hostility.
posted by localroger at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2013
I can see why the slum-dwellers of Earth don't have Medipods in their homes so that daily treatment can make them immortal. The thing is, as today, it's not an on-off switch but a potential continuum, and it seems unfathomable that there aren't at least a few medipods on Earth for treatment of terrible accidents and cruel and debilitating diseases. It's made clear in the final scene that deploying Medipods isn't fundamentally difficult. It just isn't done, at all, for any reason, until Elysium is hacked to force it.
I would guess the justification for this has to do with some kind of licensing arrangement, but it's very hard to imagine a circumstance under which there wouldn't be at least a few medipods on Earth for the little girls dying of leukemia and the victims of industrial accidents. Unlike the immortal residents of Elysium the poor don't need the Medipods every day, just when something goes horribly wrong. To not make them available Earthside isn't just neglect but hostility.
posted by localroger at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2013
Eylsium could have had a bleeding heart liberal character in the Space Hamptons who would have said things like "why can't we just put some medipods on Earth?" And then there could have been some exposition about how either the politics or the technology would work on Earth. But they didn't even both with that much token explanation.
P.S. The big space wheel always seemed to be overhead which would make you think that it was in a Clarke Orbit but that would mean it was over the equator which we were no where near. Plus that orbit is 20,000 miles up but they can get there in 20 minutes? By just shooting straight up?
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
P.S. The big space wheel always seemed to be overhead which would make you think that it was in a Clarke Orbit but that would mean it was over the equator which we were no where near. Plus that orbit is 20,000 miles up but they can get there in 20 minutes? By just shooting straight up?
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
You want to see what is killing Hollywood? Someone thought it was a good idea to spend $32 Million making this piece of crap. yt
You know that film has made almost $100 million, yes?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know that film has made almost $100 million, yes?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 6:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well Charlie at least that piece of crap isn't Ender's Game.
posted by localroger at 6:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 6:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm not really sure why people say the Bechdel Test is completely useless as a metric for individual works. There are plenty of movies I love and even find inspiring to me as a woman/feminist (or whatever) that don't pass the Bechdel Test and it's still a pretty big glaring question as to why not. Unless there's a very compelling reason as to why one woman never talks to another woman (i.e. she's the only character in the movie), it's kind of absurd and shocking that this would happen so rarely even in "good" movies, or that portraying it wouldn't feel "relevant." I see it less as an abstractly interesting way to review bodies of work and more a very specific and personal insight into how I actually feel about movies as a woman, something that helped me to name a major unnamed source of frustration and alienation for me as a little baby cinephile. It's very relevant to me on a movie-by-movie, case-by-case basis.
posted by stoneandstar at 7:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 7:02 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
I haven't seen Elysium yet. What the fuck is a medipod? Is it as stupid as the surgery pod in Prometheus that only operates on men? Sounds hilarious.
posted by phaedon at 7:03 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by phaedon at 7:03 PM on August 25, 2013
To not make them available Earthside isn't just neglect but hostility.
Yes, I've never heard a rich person being hostile to the poor.
Plus that orbit is 20,000 miles up but they can get there in 20 minutes? By just shooting straight up?
It was a Ferrari.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yes, I've never heard a rich person being hostile to the poor.
Plus that orbit is 20,000 miles up but they can get there in 20 minutes? By just shooting straight up?
It was a Ferrari.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yeah octothorpe the website doesn't give the orbit but it does say the torus is 125 km across, which means that if it's in GEO it would look about half the size of the Moon and therefore quite a bit smaller than portrayed on screen. There are other clues in the "promotional info" on the website that strongly suggest the Torus is in GEO and others are slated to be built more convenient to other Earthside points.
Another cinematic problem is that even if the torus is in GEO and it's the right size, it won't always face the Earth flat wheel first; it will have phases, going from West full-on to edge-on to east full-on to edge-on again.
And yeah, 20 minutes to GEO means rockets will progress even more in the next generation than computers have in mine.
posted by localroger at 7:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Another cinematic problem is that even if the torus is in GEO and it's the right size, it won't always face the Earth flat wheel first; it will have phases, going from West full-on to edge-on to east full-on to edge-on again.
And yeah, 20 minutes to GEO means rockets will progress even more in the next generation than computers have in mine.
posted by localroger at 7:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'll be the first to say, "I hope not."
This is a major industry that, if upended suddenly without a strong alternative in place, could cause a lot of people to lose their jobs.
Sorry the movies are crappy though.
posted by dogwalker at 7:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
This is a major industry that, if upended suddenly without a strong alternative in place, could cause a lot of people to lose their jobs.
Sorry the movies are crappy though.
posted by dogwalker at 7:15 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Alfonso Cuarón's Espero Que Sí
posted by jquinby at 7:17 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 7:17 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
Could budgets be reduced to the point where studios had to resort to cheap tactics like scripts and acting? Heaven forfend!
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:18 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
N'thing "I hope so". Unless it's a blockbuster about a dark superhero, played by me, who cleans the city of every stunted man-child wanker
Sometimes when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Sometimes when you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Pacific Rim is an example of a film delivering pretty much perfectly on its promises.
See, and I think this is my point of disconnect with everyone, because I could not disagree more. If (to take another swing at Snyder, because why not) Zack Snyder was the advertised director of PR, then yes. Movie as advertised, one of his best, good job.
But he was not the advertised director. GdT was. And I have seen a bunch of GdT movies, even the more pop-corny action ones, and they had a heartbeat to them that PR did not. Advertising him as the director advertises a kind of screen magic that the movie was utterly lacking in. He made a common Hollywood movie, and I count on him to show me something at least a little bit uncommon.
I had the same reaction when I watched The Love Guru. It felt like I was watching a movie by someone trying really hard to be like Mike Myers. Same thing here, only with GdT.
After the movie, one of the guys I went with put it perfectly when he said "I feel like I just watched the worst good movie ever made." I felt let down when I left that theater.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:20 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
See, and I think this is my point of disconnect with everyone, because I could not disagree more. If (to take another swing at Snyder, because why not) Zack Snyder was the advertised director of PR, then yes. Movie as advertised, one of his best, good job.
But he was not the advertised director. GdT was. And I have seen a bunch of GdT movies, even the more pop-corny action ones, and they had a heartbeat to them that PR did not. Advertising him as the director advertises a kind of screen magic that the movie was utterly lacking in. He made a common Hollywood movie, and I count on him to show me something at least a little bit uncommon.
I had the same reaction when I watched The Love Guru. It felt like I was watching a movie by someone trying really hard to be like Mike Myers. Same thing here, only with GdT.
After the movie, one of the guys I went with put it perfectly when he said "I feel like I just watched the worst good movie ever made." I felt let down when I left that theater.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:20 PM on August 25, 2013 [6 favorites]
For those of you clamoring for a brighter future right around the corner, let's not forget in 2006, Paramount Vantage gathered 19 Oscar nominations in one year (There Will Be, No Country), and was completely dismantled shortly thereafter. It's always going to be about the money. Hollywood is never going to return to the good old days.
posted by phaedon at 7:26 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by phaedon at 7:26 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Advertising him as the director advertises a kind of screen magic that the movie was utterly lacking in. He made a common Hollywood movie, and I count on him to show me something at least a little bit uncommon.
If there is one thing I have learned from Tumblr, it is that there is a lot more to Pacific Rim than you catch in one viewing. del Toro isn't kidding when he describes his visual technique as "eye protein" -- there's entire stories contained in where the pilots are placed within their Jaegers, or whether or not they mark their kills on their uniforms, or the tattoos characters wear.
The film benefits from repeated viewing and deep analysis, which, given the nature of the sort of film it is, I think del Torr could expect, because you miss a lot of important details in what seems like the simplicity of the storyline, from the fact of Idris Elba is speaking with his native working class Hackney accent to the fact that both scientists are disabled (and are conscientious and respectful to each other about the fact, despite their other conflicts) to the fact that one of the most important lines of the film is offered in unsubtitled Japanese.
It reminds me of the Cahiers du Cinema analysis of previously disregarded genre films. They pointed out that in the studio system, there were clear expectations as to what the film should be, and so auteur filmmakers put the real complexity of their films into things like the mis en scene -- the choices of props and costume and where the cast was located in a scene and color choices.
$200 million films are expected to be a certain thing, and del Toro delivered that. But, in the spaces between what the studio expected, he put so much more.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [38 favorites]
If there is one thing I have learned from Tumblr, it is that there is a lot more to Pacific Rim than you catch in one viewing. del Toro isn't kidding when he describes his visual technique as "eye protein" -- there's entire stories contained in where the pilots are placed within their Jaegers, or whether or not they mark their kills on their uniforms, or the tattoos characters wear.
The film benefits from repeated viewing and deep analysis, which, given the nature of the sort of film it is, I think del Torr could expect, because you miss a lot of important details in what seems like the simplicity of the storyline, from the fact of Idris Elba is speaking with his native working class Hackney accent to the fact that both scientists are disabled (and are conscientious and respectful to each other about the fact, despite their other conflicts) to the fact that one of the most important lines of the film is offered in unsubtitled Japanese.
It reminds me of the Cahiers du Cinema analysis of previously disregarded genre films. They pointed out that in the studio system, there were clear expectations as to what the film should be, and so auteur filmmakers put the real complexity of their films into things like the mis en scene -- the choices of props and costume and where the cast was located in a scene and color choices.
$200 million films are expected to be a certain thing, and del Toro delivered that. But, in the spaces between what the studio expected, he put so much more.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [38 favorites]
Pacific Rim was advertised as giant robots beating on giant monsters and it delivered. The only major thing wrong with it was the lack of animated shorts like the ani-matrix for the matrix.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Um, this was, like, totally foreseen. Why else would there be two movies this year with the titles "This is the End" and "The World's End?"
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:30 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by tafetta, darling! at 7:30 PM on August 25, 2013
Sonascope, really? If you'd said "Hans Zimmer" I'd agree with you. If anything the big-williams-hollywood theme is passe enough these days it's probably due a resurgence not too far from now. Most Hollywood blockbuster scores seem to be an endless clatter of polyrhythmic drums topped off with some orchestral swells and stabs...I'd actually welcome a return to William's lyrical, thematic writing.
Similarly, more 70s era Burtt-style organic SFX would be an improvement over some of the witless plugin twiddling common to blockbusters.
The thing that bothers me about sound and music in blockbusters recently is the lack of space. Wall-to-wall SFX and score. Silence is a powerful tool.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 7:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Similarly, more 70s era Burtt-style organic SFX would be an improvement over some of the witless plugin twiddling common to blockbusters.
The thing that bothers me about sound and music in blockbusters recently is the lack of space. Wall-to-wall SFX and score. Silence is a powerful tool.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 7:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Pacific Rim was advertised as giant robots beating on giant monsters and it delivered.
Oh, the high standards of the modern filmgoer.
posted by JHarris at 7:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Oh, the high standards of the modern filmgoer.
posted by JHarris at 7:31 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Hey, I don't knock your tastes.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [5 favorites]
Maybe you should. Use the elbow rocket.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [23 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:33 PM on August 25, 2013 [23 favorites]
After the movie, one of the guys I went with put it perfectly when he said "I feel like I just watched the worst good movie ever made." I felt let down when I left that theater.
Don't worry, you're not the only one. My forehead is still recovering from the slap it took when one of the Jaegers, sporting an all-digital, floaty-menu interface, turned out to be "analog."
Speaking of which, imagine an analog mind-meld, it would be like a scene out of Frankenstein, or the Human Centipede.
posted by phaedon at 7:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Don't worry, you're not the only one. My forehead is still recovering from the slap it took when one of the Jaegers, sporting an all-digital, floaty-menu interface, turned out to be "analog."
Speaking of which, imagine an analog mind-meld, it would be like a scene out of Frankenstein, or the Human Centipede.
posted by phaedon at 7:40 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
I can't believe we got this far in the thread and no one has brought up what a stinker Oz the Great and Powerful was. Anyway, as long as "blockbuster" movies turn $100M into $300M (or even $80M into $150M like terrible Adam Sandler movies), they'll keep making them.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:43 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by ob1quixote at 7:43 PM on August 25, 2013
I understand Hollywood may be in crisis, but I know in my heart that all will be made right by the first on-screen kiss between Idris Elba and Colin Farrell. Those moody little mouths were made for each other. They'll usher in a new golden age, I'm sure of it.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:44 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Given these two choices, what medium do you see flourishing and dominating in the next five years?
Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon, and Premium channels. We call movies derivative, but the most interesting TV (according to AskMe responses and pulling a decision out of my ass) indicate that people want dramas, that they want longer dramas with a story arc. Assuming that it hasn't actually jumped the shark yet, we're going to see more of those. But, the major networks can't keep up with those as one might expect. Their infrastructure isn't designed to collect your sentiment in the same manner that Netflix is designed to build a customer segment for you and predictively determine whether you'll watch this series. They can know strong female leads are in, that crime dramas are in, that wrongly accused (or at least emotionally exonerated) leads are in. What do we get? Orange is the New Black.
Expect to see more of this in short time unless there is a level of social integration to get at this... ?? Profit!
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon, and Premium channels. We call movies derivative, but the most interesting TV (according to AskMe responses and pulling a decision out of my ass) indicate that people want dramas, that they want longer dramas with a story arc. Assuming that it hasn't actually jumped the shark yet, we're going to see more of those. But, the major networks can't keep up with those as one might expect. Their infrastructure isn't designed to collect your sentiment in the same manner that Netflix is designed to build a customer segment for you and predictively determine whether you'll watch this series. They can know strong female leads are in, that crime dramas are in, that wrongly accused (or at least emotionally exonerated) leads are in. What do we get? Orange is the New Black.
Expect to see more of this in short time unless there is a level of social integration to get at this... ?? Profit!
posted by Nanukthedog at 7:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Fifty Shades of Grey comes out in just under a year. The cast is still unannounced.
Alec Bladwin and... uh I dunno, Tina Fey?
posted by ovvl at 7:48 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
Alec Bladwin and... uh I dunno, Tina Fey?
posted by ovvl at 7:48 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
So given this list of some of the planned releases for next summer:
Robocop
Endless Love
About Last Night
300: Rise of An Empire
Need for Speed
Muppets Most Wanted
Mr. Peabody & Sherman
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Stretch Armstrong
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Legends of Oz: Dorothy's Return
Godzilla
X-Men: Days of Future Past
22 Jump Street
Transformers 4
Fast and the Furious 7
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Ninja Turtles
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have this same conversation next year.
posted by octothorpe at 7:56 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
Robocop
Endless Love
About Last Night
300: Rise of An Empire
Need for Speed
Muppets Most Wanted
Mr. Peabody & Sherman
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Stretch Armstrong
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Legends of Oz: Dorothy's Return
Godzilla
X-Men: Days of Future Past
22 Jump Street
Transformers 4
Fast and the Furious 7
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Ninja Turtles
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have this same conversation next year.
posted by octothorpe at 7:56 PM on August 25, 2013 [14 favorites]
Hey, I don't knock your tastes.
No, no, I do a perfectly good job of doing that myself.
posted by JHarris at 7:57 PM on August 25, 2013
No, no, I do a perfectly good job of doing that myself.
posted by JHarris at 7:57 PM on August 25, 2013
Pacific Rim was advertised as giant robots beating on giant monsters and it delivered.
Oh, the high standards of the modern filmgoer.
I suggest reacquainting yourself with Goethe's three rules of critisism.
posted by Artw at 7:57 PM on August 25, 2013
Oh, the high standards of the modern filmgoer.
I suggest reacquainting yourself with Goethe's three rules of critisism.
posted by Artw at 7:57 PM on August 25, 2013
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have this same conversation next year.
Wait a second. What is this?
Can we talk about that next summer instead?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
Wait a second. What is this?
Can we talk about that next summer instead?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
I suggest reacquainting yourself with the three rules of shut the hell up.
(Note: I don't really mean this, it's just fun to say it as if I did.)
posted by JHarris at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
(Note: I don't really mean this, it's just fun to say it as if I did.)
posted by JHarris at 7:59 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
You just passed the Bestshutthehell Test.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have this same conversation next year.
In all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to this movie.
posted by phaedon at 8:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
In all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to this movie.
posted by phaedon at 8:05 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wait, another American Godzilla movie?! A remake of Robocop?!?! Another reboot of Planet of the Apes[?!]*3 Fast and the Furious 7[?!]*4
posted by JHarris at 8:08 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by JHarris at 8:08 PM on August 25, 2013
Hey, there's some original shit out there. They're talking about making a sequel to Pacific Rim, that won't be a reboot and will be only a 2.
posted by localroger at 8:09 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 8:09 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher: "Anyway, all I want is Pacific Rim sequel then Hollywood can implode."
Pacific Rim was really disappointing and, god forbid, if the movie makes enough money overseas, they would be ready to do a sequel!!!
posted by TheLittlePrince at 8:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Pacific Rim was really disappointing and, god forbid, if the movie makes enough money overseas, they would be ready to do a sequel!!!
posted by TheLittlePrince at 8:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Seriously, though, the next Fast and the Furious could be awesome. The last 10 seconds of the previous one made one of the biggest promises I have ever seen a film make.
(Whispering) Statham (/Whispering)
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
(Whispering) Statham (/Whispering)
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
I will totally see the next F&F. I saw this one out of boredom (my bartender moved away, what am I supposed to do with my Monday nights now?) but... Statham.
posted by restless_nomad at 8:16 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 8:16 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Bunny Ultramod, can you link to some of that analysis of the subtler bits in Pacific Rim? I love that kind of thing, but I haven't really gotten the hang of navigating Tumblr yet.
posted by fermion at 8:21 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by fermion at 8:21 PM on August 25, 2013
It's not just next summer, here's 2015: Man of Steel 2, Avengers 2, Star Wars 7, Avatar 2, Pirates of the Caribbean 5, Terminator 5, Die Hard 6, Jurassic Park 4, Independence Day 2, Finding Nemo 2, Mission: Impossible 5, Hunger Games 4, Fantastic Four Reboot, Tintin 2, Bond 24, Bourne 5
posted by Ndwright at 8:26 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Ndwright at 8:26 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Bunny Ultramod, can you link to some of that analysis of the subtler bits in Pacific Rim?
Sure!
1. the point of this post is WORKING CLASS PEOPLE OF COLOUR SAVE THE WORLD, ACCOMPANIED BY THE ONE DECENT WHITE DUDE WHO IS ALSO WORKING CLASS, AND DISABLED SCIENTISTS WHO ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT IN THE WORLD SAVING, NO REALLY WHERE DID THIS FILM COME FROM
2. Pacific Rim's Most Emotional Line Was Left Untranslated
3. It’s colour coding, it’s art directing, it’s wardrobe designing and it’s telling the story at a very visual level. I don’t expect the audience to notice these things, and I don’t expect the critics to notice these things, but if you ask me, I can literally decode the entire movie visually and you will see that every texture and every colour and every shape is part of the storytelling and the journey of the characters in the story.
4. She was responding to the film as a visual learner. She was reacting not as a traditionally trained--and traditionally, we might say, constrained--theorist, but as someone that interprets media according to images, body language, design symbolism, and color cues.
She was doing it right.
5. The two characters who are presented as the seekers of truth in Pacific Rim are also clearly coded as two different kinds of disabled. The scene where the scientists are introduced, they are late, and Newt is shouting after the others to wait.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:28 PM on August 25, 2013 [53 favorites]
Sure!
1. the point of this post is WORKING CLASS PEOPLE OF COLOUR SAVE THE WORLD, ACCOMPANIED BY THE ONE DECENT WHITE DUDE WHO IS ALSO WORKING CLASS, AND DISABLED SCIENTISTS WHO ARE HUGELY IMPORTANT IN THE WORLD SAVING, NO REALLY WHERE DID THIS FILM COME FROM
2. Pacific Rim's Most Emotional Line Was Left Untranslated
3. It’s colour coding, it’s art directing, it’s wardrobe designing and it’s telling the story at a very visual level. I don’t expect the audience to notice these things, and I don’t expect the critics to notice these things, but if you ask me, I can literally decode the entire movie visually and you will see that every texture and every colour and every shape is part of the storytelling and the journey of the characters in the story.
4. She was responding to the film as a visual learner. She was reacting not as a traditionally trained--and traditionally, we might say, constrained--theorist, but as someone that interprets media according to images, body language, design symbolism, and color cues.
She was doing it right.
5. The two characters who are presented as the seekers of truth in Pacific Rim are also clearly coded as two different kinds of disabled. The scene where the scientists are introduced, they are late, and Newt is shouting after the others to wait.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:28 PM on August 25, 2013 [53 favorites]
I Hope So: the reboot with some actor you've never heard of instead of the name who starred in the original.
Ah. The Bourne Again
posted by Sparx at 8:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ah. The Bourne Again
posted by Sparx at 8:34 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Oh, and one of my favorite things that Tumblr noticed about Pacific Rim, where they are in love with the fact that the main "want" of the film is that Mako really wants to be a pilot and Raleigh really wants her to be a pilot with him:
Raleigh's stance changes when she becomes his copilot.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:39 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Raleigh's stance changes when she becomes his copilot.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 8:39 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Guillermo del Toro may have very well jumped the shark for me with that "I don’t do eye candy, I do eye protein" comment in one of Bunny's links.
posted by phaedon at 8:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by phaedon at 8:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ninja Turtles
Hey! Things are looking up for my son!
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:45 PM on August 25, 2013
Hey! Things are looking up for my son!
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:45 PM on August 25, 2013
Hey, Bunny Ultramod, thank you for standing up for Pacific Rim. It's been a long long time since I've felt this fannish about anything, and I just cannot stop going to see the movie in the theatre and thinking about it and talking about it and reblogging everything about it, especially Team Hot Dads. Although the talking about it part is hard, because whenever I'm around other people they inevitably start bitching about it the same way a lot of folks have in this thread.
For me it had a really deep emotional through line that I didn't see on first viewing until hours and hours after I'd left the theatre. And then I couldn't stop thinking about it. And one of those things is something I've written about, which is that in the way Raleigh loses Yancy, I saw for the first time a simulacrum of what it feels like to have lost my twin sister. I've never seen anything like my experience and how hard it is to continue to go on without her every portrayed in a film or on TV, and when he says, "When you've spent so much time inside someone else's head, the hardest thing to deal with is the silence," I felt like I'd been gutted, but it was also freeing for me to hear someone say something like that. Same when he steps out of that disabled Jaeger in the beginning.
And yeah, giant robots get to punch giant monsters, and there are two hot sexy actors I adore playing BFFs (maybe more!), and Rinko Kikuchi kicks ass, and I was all kinds of happy, but for people who insist there's no heart in that movie, I'd really beg to differ. Whatever other issues they have, fine, but insisting there's no heart there...something with no heart couldn't have made me cry like that, or identify so strongly.
posted by emcat8 at 8:46 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
For me it had a really deep emotional through line that I didn't see on first viewing until hours and hours after I'd left the theatre. And then I couldn't stop thinking about it. And one of those things is something I've written about, which is that in the way Raleigh loses Yancy, I saw for the first time a simulacrum of what it feels like to have lost my twin sister. I've never seen anything like my experience and how hard it is to continue to go on without her every portrayed in a film or on TV, and when he says, "When you've spent so much time inside someone else's head, the hardest thing to deal with is the silence," I felt like I'd been gutted, but it was also freeing for me to hear someone say something like that. Same when he steps out of that disabled Jaeger in the beginning.
And yeah, giant robots get to punch giant monsters, and there are two hot sexy actors I adore playing BFFs (maybe more!), and Rinko Kikuchi kicks ass, and I was all kinds of happy, but for people who insist there's no heart in that movie, I'd really beg to differ. Whatever other issues they have, fine, but insisting there's no heart there...something with no heart couldn't have made me cry like that, or identify so strongly.
posted by emcat8 at 8:46 PM on August 25, 2013 [19 favorites]
I just hope there are more movie trailers that are a sequence of sharp cuts of scenes from the movie and the soundtrack is a synthesized foghorn going PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. PAAAAAAARP. And then at the end of the trailer the logo fades in from blackest space: PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARP.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:51 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:51 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
Pacific Rim is ultra-badass of course but seriously Guillermo there are like a hundred thousand out-of-work Australian actors wandering around Hollywood, all of them just as wooden and bereft of charisma as the I think British/American duo you came up with, couldn't you have hired a couple of them instead?
Mad props to the Federal Government for commissioning Striker Eureka though, he was boss.
The film was also very useful in giving me a new way to irritate my girlfriend, as now I refer to everything bad happening on the Kaiju scale of catastrophe. Cat hairball on tile is "Don't sweat it baby that's just a type-1 Kaiju" but when it's wet vomit on the couch it becomes type-3. I've never seen a type-4.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
Mad props to the Federal Government for commissioning Striker Eureka though, he was boss.
The film was also very useful in giving me a new way to irritate my girlfriend, as now I refer to everything bad happening on the Kaiju scale of catastrophe. Cat hairball on tile is "Don't sweat it baby that's just a type-1 Kaiju" but when it's wet vomit on the couch it becomes type-3. I've never seen a type-4.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [8 favorites]
Ryan Gosling should be the next James Bond and Jodie Foster should be the next Batman.
Girl, Ryan Gosling could be the next anything and I'd watch it.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:58 PM on August 25, 2013
Girl, Ryan Gosling could be the next anything and I'd watch it.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 8:58 PM on August 25, 2013
Yeah, well, if you all will excuse me I'll just be in my room not enjoying anything, because apparently I'm incapable of it anymore, or at least enjoying anything new.
posted by JHarris at 9:00 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by JHarris at 9:00 PM on August 25, 2013
Gosling as Bond?
"My name is Poison LaWelle. What's yours?"
"..."
"Umm."
"..."
"Hello?"
"Bond."
"Oh?"
"..."
"So do you- "
"James." *produces toothpick, agonizingly studies it for minutes before putting it in his mouth* "Bond."
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [13 favorites]
"My name is Poison LaWelle. What's yours?"
"..."
"Umm."
"..."
"Hello?"
"Bond."
"Oh?"
"..."
"So do you- "
"James." *produces toothpick, agonizingly studies it for minutes before putting it in his mouth* "Bond."
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:01 PM on August 25, 2013 [13 favorites]
I would like to see a film with Heino Ferch as Ryan Gosling's German older brother.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:04 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:04 PM on August 25, 2013
I've never seen a type-4.
That's what she said. *ziiip*
posted by phaedon at 9:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's what she said. *ziiip*
posted by phaedon at 9:10 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ha!
Also what's with all the hate that Oblivion gets? I thought that was exhilarating, a real blast, with a great soundtrack by M83. Perfect popcorn movie and I've watched it multiple times and I don't even care how crazy Tom Cruise is.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also what's with all the hate that Oblivion gets? I thought that was exhilarating, a real blast, with a great soundtrack by M83. Perfect popcorn movie and I've watched it multiple times and I don't even care how crazy Tom Cruise is.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:13 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Ryan Gosling should be the next James Bond and Jodie Foster should be the next Batman.
the internet should shut up about casting and worry more about who will be directing, as directors tend to do the casting (for good movies anyway).
posted by philip-random at 9:20 PM on August 25, 2013
the internet should shut up about casting and worry more about who will be directing, as directors tend to do the casting (for good movies anyway).
posted by philip-random at 9:20 PM on August 25, 2013
Will we never see Shantaram on any of these release lists?
posted by unliteral at 9:25 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by unliteral at 9:25 PM on August 25, 2013
If they get Tim Burton on board as director for anything then the questions about casting answer themselves: it will be his wife, Helena Bonham Carter; their young son, Johnny Depp; and also probably a midget.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:27 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:27 PM on August 25, 2013 [10 favorites]
Box Office Mojo--new numbers should be up in about two weeks.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:38 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Ideefixe at 9:38 PM on August 25, 2013
Well, The World's End was fucking great, FWIW.
posted by Artw at 9:55 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:55 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
Another comment on tv crushing hollywood, before i've even made it through the entire thread here;
Has anyone seen the production values and CGI in say, Terra Nova, Continuum, Hemlock Grove, or several other very new scifi/fantasy shows like that? They seriously have better SFX than the star wars prequels from 10 years ago or less. In a TV show. The first couple episodes of both blew my mind on this. And hell, don't even get me started on Game of Thrones.(which actually isn't even the most impressive out there at this, although i could go on a whole other rant about the quality of cinematography, wardrobe, and other stuff in that show. It looks like the lord of the rings movies)
Hollywood generally smacked tv down in a lot of departments in the past, but one of them was consistently VFX. Now TV is a lot of times besting them both in writing/plot development and punching in their weight class visually. The costs of a shop, or the studio itself to have inhouse VFX renderfarms and the cornucopia of talent out there(plus the option of outsourcing it all to asia, or other places now doing VFX) have just crashed the market.
If you don't believe me, go watch the first episode of Continuum on netflix right now. It looks like Elysium.
In another 5 years i really doubt that even the big high-millions of dollars movies will be able to distinguish themselves all that much. Yea, you're shooting on location 12 places in the world in James Bond and you got a bunch of big name actors, smash up expensive cars, etc. Some TV show will come along and fake the location shots somewhere like vancouver, render a lot of the rest, and it'll end up being like the difference between mid shelf and top shelf whiskey in a whiskey coke. Who can really tell, and the budgets of the movies will feel like a waste.
posted by emptythought at 10:09 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Has anyone seen the production values and CGI in say, Terra Nova, Continuum, Hemlock Grove, or several other very new scifi/fantasy shows like that? They seriously have better SFX than the star wars prequels from 10 years ago or less. In a TV show. The first couple episodes of both blew my mind on this. And hell, don't even get me started on Game of Thrones.(which actually isn't even the most impressive out there at this, although i could go on a whole other rant about the quality of cinematography, wardrobe, and other stuff in that show. It looks like the lord of the rings movies)
Hollywood generally smacked tv down in a lot of departments in the past, but one of them was consistently VFX. Now TV is a lot of times besting them both in writing/plot development and punching in their weight class visually. The costs of a shop, or the studio itself to have inhouse VFX renderfarms and the cornucopia of talent out there(plus the option of outsourcing it all to asia, or other places now doing VFX) have just crashed the market.
If you don't believe me, go watch the first episode of Continuum on netflix right now. It looks like Elysium.
In another 5 years i really doubt that even the big high-millions of dollars movies will be able to distinguish themselves all that much. Yea, you're shooting on location 12 places in the world in James Bond and you got a bunch of big name actors, smash up expensive cars, etc. Some TV show will come along and fake the location shots somewhere like vancouver, render a lot of the rest, and it'll end up being like the difference between mid shelf and top shelf whiskey in a whiskey coke. Who can really tell, and the budgets of the movies will feel like a waste.
posted by emptythought at 10:09 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
I am thoroughly enjoying watching people shit themselves over Affleck, a solid filmmaker and actor,
He's solid as a filmmaker, yes; he seems to be the next Ron Howard. Entertaining yet bland movies for general audiences. A solid actor? Some actors can do no wrong, they're great in every movie they're in. Meryl Streep is like that, she is great in everything.
Ben Affleck is one of those actors who needs the right script at the right time, the right director, the stars aligned and Jupiter in the house of the moon for them to get a good performance. Affleck was good in Good Will Hunting and did a good job channeling Alec Baldwin in Boiler Room. And...that's about it. He just simply doesn't have much range. Will he make a good Batman? Who knows? Who's the director, Zach Snyder? Meh. Snyder will be too busy with green screens to actually give direction to actors. But maybe he'll be alright. Who am I kidding, he'll be pretty bad. But so will the script and the direction and no one will care after a year. Anyway, it's not like Christian Bale was that good as Batman himself.
posted by zardoz at 10:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
He's solid as a filmmaker, yes; he seems to be the next Ron Howard. Entertaining yet bland movies for general audiences. A solid actor? Some actors can do no wrong, they're great in every movie they're in. Meryl Streep is like that, she is great in everything.
Ben Affleck is one of those actors who needs the right script at the right time, the right director, the stars aligned and Jupiter in the house of the moon for them to get a good performance. Affleck was good in Good Will Hunting and did a good job channeling Alec Baldwin in Boiler Room. And...that's about it. He just simply doesn't have much range. Will he make a good Batman? Who knows? Who's the director, Zach Snyder? Meh. Snyder will be too busy with green screens to actually give direction to actors. But maybe he'll be alright. Who am I kidding, he'll be pretty bad. But so will the script and the direction and no one will care after a year. Anyway, it's not like Christian Bale was that good as Batman himself.
posted by zardoz at 10:19 PM on August 25, 2013 [4 favorites]
In the end, I had to see Pacific Rim by myself. I don't particularly like going to movies alone, I really feel they should be a shared activity, so I was a bit apprehensive. Also, 3D, which I'm not a fan of.
Pacific Rim was the most I've ever enjoyed any movie in the theater. It's everything I'd been waiting to see in a movie since the first movie I saw. I became utterly immersed in the film, and I found myself becoming more emotionally attached to the film than any I've seen in years. There were parts where I felt overwhelming sadness, parts where I felt absolutely giddy, and parts where I felt sheer terror. I felt fear for fictional inanimate objects.
The 3D was perfect, I thought. The main effect that I noticed was that, since nearly all of the fights take place in the ocean, that the ocean floods out into the theater, creating a fantastic intimacy.
It's not a perfect movie. It might not even be an objectively 'good' (in terms of oscarbait) film. It is, hands down, the most I've ever enjoyed being in a theater. If there is a sequel, it has big, big shoes to fill.*
I don't want a sequel. I want to see the movie that happened in the middle five years of the film, and how things got so bad. That's not too much to ask, is it?
posted by Ghidorah at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
Pacific Rim was the most I've ever enjoyed any movie in the theater. It's everything I'd been waiting to see in a movie since the first movie I saw. I became utterly immersed in the film, and I found myself becoming more emotionally attached to the film than any I've seen in years. There were parts where I felt overwhelming sadness, parts where I felt absolutely giddy, and parts where I felt sheer terror. I felt fear for fictional inanimate objects.
The 3D was perfect, I thought. The main effect that I noticed was that, since nearly all of the fights take place in the ocean, that the ocean floods out into the theater, creating a fantastic intimacy.
It's not a perfect movie. It might not even be an objectively 'good' (in terms of oscarbait) film. It is, hands down, the most I've ever enjoyed being in a theater. If there is a sequel, it has big, big shoes to fill.*
I don't want a sequel. I want to see the movie that happened in the middle five years of the film, and how things got so bad. That's not too much to ask, is it?
posted by Ghidorah at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [9 favorites]
Has anyone seen the production values and CGI in say, Terra Nova, Continuum, Hemlock Grove, or several other very new scifi/fantasy shows like that? They seriously have better SFX than the star wars prequels from 10 years ago or less. In a TV show.
This probably should be a FPP considering how crazy people are over Game of Thrones, but here's a behind-the-curtain look at their visual effects. (Warning: if you believe Game of Thrones is real, you might want to skip this.)
posted by phaedon at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
This probably should be a FPP considering how crazy people are over Game of Thrones, but here's a behind-the-curtain look at their visual effects. (Warning: if you believe Game of Thrones is real, you might want to skip this.)
posted by phaedon at 10:25 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Just wanted to jump in on the Pacific Rim lovefest. One of the things I truly loved about it was the world building. In most blockbusters, the big events feel like they happen in a vacuum. Sure the hero might win, the villain vanquished, but you don't get a feel for what the average jane goes through when half of Gotham City is ravaged or how the general culture reacts when an ancient Norse deity starts leveling small towns, and what the world is like after the dust settles.
Pacific Rim actually takes the trouble to show how people react with glimpses of popular culture in the days of regular Kaiju attacks, structures built around the monster bones, references to rationing, glimpses of a black market in monster parts, and all of it is done in a way which doesn't slow the movie down or bore your average moviegoer with exposition.
And it's just absolutely full of blink and you miss it details. One of my favorite things in the movie, something which doesn't get talked about much, is the scene in Hong Kong with Rom Perlman as the black market dealer, and he's showing the scientist a large bug. Apparently the bug exists in some sort of symbiotic or parasitic relationship with the kaiju and travels with them. Does the bug prove to be an important plot point or some sort of monster to later terrorize one of our heroes? No. It's just a small detail which gives the tiniest glimpse of the ecology of the monsters and adds immensely to the world building. Most blockbusters wouldn't bother with such a thing.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
Pacific Rim actually takes the trouble to show how people react with glimpses of popular culture in the days of regular Kaiju attacks, structures built around the monster bones, references to rationing, glimpses of a black market in monster parts, and all of it is done in a way which doesn't slow the movie down or bore your average moviegoer with exposition.
And it's just absolutely full of blink and you miss it details. One of my favorite things in the movie, something which doesn't get talked about much, is the scene in Hong Kong with Rom Perlman as the black market dealer, and he's showing the scientist a large bug. Apparently the bug exists in some sort of symbiotic or parasitic relationship with the kaiju and travels with them. Does the bug prove to be an important plot point or some sort of monster to later terrorize one of our heroes? No. It's just a small detail which gives the tiniest glimpse of the ecology of the monsters and adds immensely to the world building. Most blockbusters wouldn't bother with such a thing.
posted by honestcoyote at 10:45 PM on August 25, 2013 [11 favorites]
The last film I saw in theaters was The Room at the local Alamo Drafthouse. I had beer, I had deep fried pickles. I threw spoons. I yelled at the screen. I paid like $12 for it, I'm doing it again next month.
posted by hellojed at 10:51 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by hellojed at 10:51 PM on August 25, 2013
WIRED says rap is dead as well just like movies or something?
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by Artw at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2013
Pacific Rim was good but its international flavor was overrated, as I cover here. Long story short: the Anglosphere won the day, the former communist superpowers get killed off too early, and the Peruvian Japanese character wasn't part Asian at all.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 10:57 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Those aren't even real Australians!
posted by Artw at 10:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 10:58 PM on August 25, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ugh, Frances Ha. So terrible.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 11:07 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 11:07 PM on August 25, 2013 [2 favorites]
Speaking of bullshit I cannot believe, is there a Batfleck thread that I missed, where I can just fucking unload on somebody?
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the one, true, official Batman next year is going to be Will Arnett in the LEGO Movie. I mean, he's played a millionaire at least twice, and hey, illusions are what Batman's all about.
posted by FJT at 11:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the one, true, official Batman next year is going to be Will Arnett in the LEGO Movie. I mean, he's played a millionaire at least twice, and hey, illusions are what Batman's all about.
posted by FJT at 11:29 PM on August 25, 2013 [3 favorites]
Remember, Ben Affleck isn't the worst Batman casting ever done.
posted by happyroach at 11:29 PM on August 25, 2013
posted by happyroach at 11:29 PM on August 25, 2013
Girl, Ryan Gosling could be the next anything and I'd watch it.
Well, I guess it's a good a time as any to ask this: Anyone seen the new Gosling film, Only God Forgives (redband trailer)? Is it any good? It's from the same director as Drive, haven't heard much about it, just that it was booed at Cannes.
posted by FJT at 12:13 AM on August 26, 2013
Well, I guess it's a good a time as any to ask this: Anyone seen the new Gosling film, Only God Forgives (redband trailer)? Is it any good? It's from the same director as Drive, haven't heard much about it, just that it was booed at Cannes.
posted by FJT at 12:13 AM on August 26, 2013
The Fast and Furious franchise is awesome, and 7 promises to be one of the best yet. (The F&F franchise actually seems to follow the odd numbers are best rule. My personal ranking would be something like 5 > 6 > 3 > 1 > 4 > 2. Also STATHAM)
I don't mind Affleck, but it's still Snyder and Goyer so it will still be terrible.
Oblivion was godawful.
And speaking of TV and derivative properties, small screen Hollywood seems to have Oz fever.
posted by kmz at 12:18 AM on August 26, 2013
I don't mind Affleck, but it's still Snyder and Goyer so it will still be terrible.
Oblivion was godawful.
And speaking of TV and derivative properties, small screen Hollywood seems to have Oz fever.
posted by kmz at 12:18 AM on August 26, 2013
Well, I guess it's a good a time as any to ask this: Anyone seen the new Gosling film, Only God Forgives (redband trailer) yt ? Is it any good?
I watched it. I enjoyed Drive more or less, but this bored my pants off. I "get" it, it's just a bit of a yawner. Others would enjoy it, I'm sure.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:35 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I watched it. I enjoyed Drive more or less, but this bored my pants off. I "get" it, it's just a bit of a yawner. Others would enjoy it, I'm sure.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:35 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ugh, Frances Ha. So terrible.
Funny, I just watched Mr. Jealousy today on TV. Noah Baumbach is such an insightful writer, especially when it comes to relationships. The problem is it's just so cerebral. He's no Woody Allen - the consummate New Yorker flying out to LA to meet Diane Keaton and getting stuck in the parking lot backing in and out over and over again with his rented over-sized Cadillac. Genius. Didn't have to say a word.
Just wanted to jump in on the Pacific Rim lovefest.
Frankly if you put me on an island with a hard drive that could only fit one apocalyptic alien action/adventure, hands down I would pick Independence Day or Battleship over Pacific Rim. Hands down. Rim failed from the gate with its little 5 minute exposition on how "we live in a world where Kaiju have been fought for years, now they're back."
There was no unfolding mystery to it. ID4 and Battleship had very distinct "what the fuck!" opening acts. They're fucking aliens, Guillermo.
posted by phaedon at 12:41 AM on August 26, 2013
Funny, I just watched Mr. Jealousy today on TV. Noah Baumbach is such an insightful writer, especially when it comes to relationships. The problem is it's just so cerebral. He's no Woody Allen - the consummate New Yorker flying out to LA to meet Diane Keaton and getting stuck in the parking lot backing in and out over and over again with his rented over-sized Cadillac. Genius. Didn't have to say a word.
Just wanted to jump in on the Pacific Rim lovefest.
Frankly if you put me on an island with a hard drive that could only fit one apocalyptic alien action/adventure, hands down I would pick Independence Day or Battleship over Pacific Rim. Hands down. Rim failed from the gate with its little 5 minute exposition on how "we live in a world where Kaiju have been fought for years, now they're back."
There was no unfolding mystery to it. ID4 and Battleship had very distinct "what the fuck!" opening acts. They're fucking aliens, Guillermo.
posted by phaedon at 12:41 AM on August 26, 2013
Tokyo Drift (until I finally see 6) the pinnacle of the F&F series. While, sure, it's nominally a movie about fast cars, driven furiously, it's also one the absolute worst examples of a movie set in the Japan that only exists in the mind's eye of deluded American film producers, and the dreams of the audience that eats that stuff up. It's so mind-breakingly off about pretty much every possible concept of Japan that it's hilarious. It's a fine film, one in the lofty tradition of Black Rain (where the American hostess, who might as well go by 'Madame Exposition,' who's been in Japan for ages, but mispronounces, with odd stresses and all, the word 'gaijin' so badly I can't even mimic it for fun), The Hunted (samurai fighting ninja on the Shinkansen, complete with explosive decompression!), and Rising Sun ("You will be maih khhouchai, I will be yawr shemmmpaigh").
Absolutely priceless.
fuck lost in translation, seriously. I don't know a single foreigner living here when it came out that had anything good to say about it. All of the crimes in the movies I mentioned, but just so damn pretentious and twee.
posted by Ghidorah at 12:52 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Absolutely priceless.
fuck lost in translation, seriously. I don't know a single foreigner living here when it came out that had anything good to say about it. All of the crimes in the movies I mentioned, but just so damn pretentious and twee.
posted by Ghidorah at 12:52 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I Hope So : The Reboot of the Reboot.
posted by longbaugh at 12:57 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by longbaugh at 12:57 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The American film industry is in trouble.
Summer Box Office Looks to Break Record Despite Flops
posted by PenDevil at 1:25 AM on August 26, 2013
Summer Box Office Looks to Break Record Despite Flops
posted by PenDevil at 1:25 AM on August 26, 2013
There seems to be a kind of Millenarian prophesy among movie reviewers and film buffs, that's been around for a couple of decades, and goes a bit like this:
One day, soon, there will come the time of the Great Flop: one or many colossally expensive blockbusters that fail catastrophically. The studios will tremble and fall. The surviving filmmakers, chastened, will turn away from the Way of the Blockbuster and return to the true path of Character-Based Drama. Audiences will return to the movie houses and there will be a great golden age of movies once more.
There are a couple of problems with this though.
First, the blockbusters make most of their money not at the box office, but later as pay-per-view, rental discs, discs for sales, TV channels. Their star names and familiar titles elicit precious recognition from people thumbing through program guides. The prophets like to look upon box office receipts as signs of the Great Flop, but so far they've always been mistaken, as the blockbusters make money in the long term.
Second, the collapse of the blockbuster probably wouldn't mean character-based drama would return to the movie houses. The older audiences who like that sort of thing would probably prefer to stay where they are, reclining on their La-Z-Boys in front of 42'' screen TVs with a cheap drink in their hands. Small-screen dramas like Breaking Bad or Mad Men will still be available in the house, providing character-based drama in complex plotlines that are too long for a movie. If the Great Flop happens, it's more likely that the picture houses will just close down completely.
For what character-based drama remains in movies, the blockbusters aren't actually competition, but allies. They're helping to keep the movie theaters open, for the few fans of smaller movies who still dare venture into the darkness of the movie theater. Don't be too hasty in yearning for the demise of the blockbuster.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:30 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
One day, soon, there will come the time of the Great Flop: one or many colossally expensive blockbusters that fail catastrophically. The studios will tremble and fall. The surviving filmmakers, chastened, will turn away from the Way of the Blockbuster and return to the true path of Character-Based Drama. Audiences will return to the movie houses and there will be a great golden age of movies once more.
There are a couple of problems with this though.
First, the blockbusters make most of their money not at the box office, but later as pay-per-view, rental discs, discs for sales, TV channels. Their star names and familiar titles elicit precious recognition from people thumbing through program guides. The prophets like to look upon box office receipts as signs of the Great Flop, but so far they've always been mistaken, as the blockbusters make money in the long term.
Second, the collapse of the blockbuster probably wouldn't mean character-based drama would return to the movie houses. The older audiences who like that sort of thing would probably prefer to stay where they are, reclining on their La-Z-Boys in front of 42'' screen TVs with a cheap drink in their hands. Small-screen dramas like Breaking Bad or Mad Men will still be available in the house, providing character-based drama in complex plotlines that are too long for a movie. If the Great Flop happens, it's more likely that the picture houses will just close down completely.
For what character-based drama remains in movies, the blockbusters aren't actually competition, but allies. They're helping to keep the movie theaters open, for the few fans of smaller movies who still dare venture into the darkness of the movie theater. Don't be too hasty in yearning for the demise of the blockbuster.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:30 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
I will continue to yearn for it (the death of blockbusters), thanks. It's not just the whole cycle of terrible brain dead movies and how they crowd out other kinds of movies, it's the culture that surrounds them, how guys trying to pal around with you talk about them as if you're expected to like them, saying things like "wasn't that kick-ass" with saddening enthusiasm. And that attitude leaks out in different ways, and has subtle influences on the whole national mindset. At the very least, the desperate, longing ambition of video games aspiring to be them is responsible for many of the problems with that field.
posted by JHarris at 1:40 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by JHarris at 1:40 AM on August 26, 2013
Exempting kids' movies [...] the four biggest movies of the May-August period were sequels or reboots: Iron Man 3, Man of Steel, Fast and Furious 6, and Star Trek Into Darkness.
Exempting kids' movies, the four biggest movies of the May-August period were... also kids' movies. Maybe not baby movies, but certainly designed to attract 12-year-old boys. Try making some movies that a 12-year-old would turn and run the other way from. For a start, no spaceships, no aliens, no monsters, no superpowers, no time travel, no vehicle chases, no explosions, no gunshots, and no felonies. That should make the writers work a bit harder.
posted by pracowity at 1:46 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Exempting kids' movies, the four biggest movies of the May-August period were... also kids' movies. Maybe not baby movies, but certainly designed to attract 12-year-old boys. Try making some movies that a 12-year-old would turn and run the other way from. For a start, no spaceships, no aliens, no monsters, no superpowers, no time travel, no vehicle chases, no explosions, no gunshots, and no felonies. That should make the writers work a bit harder.
posted by pracowity at 1:46 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Interactive virtual reality is the future. Think about it - a total dismantling of the fourth wall. Total paradigm shift. Movies are toast. The technology's almost there. Kinect, Google Glass. Ten years ago, I poured myself into text-based RPGs. The next generation will look back at people playing WoW and be like, "how utterly ridiculous." Our kids will be pinned to their sofa for days, with two pipes connected to their stomach, one for Mountain Dew and the other for a proprietary Doritos puree.
posted by phaedon at 1:49 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by phaedon at 1:49 AM on August 26, 2013
Interactive virtual reality is the future. Think about it - a total dismantling of the fourth wall. Total paradigm shift. Movies are toast. The technology's almost there. Kinect, Google Glass.
But it'll be crap PATTERNED AFTER BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES.
posted by JHarris at 2:53 AM on August 26, 2013
But it'll be crap PATTERNED AFTER BLOCKBUSTER MOVIES.
posted by JHarris at 2:53 AM on August 26, 2013
I had the same reaction when I watched The Love Guru. It felt like I was watching a movie by someone trying really hard to be like Mike Myers. Same thing here, only with GdT.
Was it just me, or was Ben Kingsley channeling Mike Myers in Iron Man 3? A little The Love Guru, a little Austin Powers?
After the movie, one of the guys I went with put it perfectly when he said "I feel like I just watched the worst good movie ever made." I felt let down when I left that theater.
Count me as someone that loved Pacific Rim. It had its flaws, but it was mostly wonderful. I, like others, want to see the prequel, but I also liked jumping into the story mid stream.
Also, about 10 minutes in, I decided Charlie Day's Dr. Newton Geithner was actually Charlie from Always Sunny, and in some hair-brained scheme, possible hatched under the bridge with Frank, he talked his way into this kaiju expert doctor role, and now everyone thinks he's this expert scientist, so he just goes along with it, just like Charlie would. It explains his behavior perfectly. Seriously, when you watch it again, watch it through that lens.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 4:21 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Was it just me, or was Ben Kingsley channeling Mike Myers in Iron Man 3? A little The Love Guru, a little Austin Powers?
After the movie, one of the guys I went with put it perfectly when he said "I feel like I just watched the worst good movie ever made." I felt let down when I left that theater.
Count me as someone that loved Pacific Rim. It had its flaws, but it was mostly wonderful. I, like others, want to see the prequel, but I also liked jumping into the story mid stream.
Also, about 10 minutes in, I decided Charlie Day's Dr. Newton Geithner was actually Charlie from Always Sunny, and in some hair-brained scheme, possible hatched under the bridge with Frank, he talked his way into this kaiju expert doctor role, and now everyone thinks he's this expert scientist, so he just goes along with it, just like Charlie would. It explains his behavior perfectly. Seriously, when you watch it again, watch it through that lens.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 4:21 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also what's with all the hate that Oblivion gets?
It was a dumb premise from the beginning and the ending managed to trump even that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It was a dumb premise from the beginning and the ending managed to trump even that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, here's the Category 5 Mefi thread about Pacfic Rim.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:54 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:54 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
When it comes out on Blue Ray, I will host a viewing party where we watch Fifth Element, Speed Racer and Pacific Rim all in a row. Pixie Stix and Mountain Dew will be served, and everyone will have a beanbag chair.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:30 AM on August 26, 2013 [11 favorites]
pracowity: For a start, no spaceships, no aliens, no monsters, no superpowers, no time travel, no vehicle chases, no explosions, no gunshots, and no felonies.
Your list would exclude anything like the following: a significant number of foreign films in which violence or magical realism are relevant cultural concerns, Stanley Kubrick's major films, all of film noir, The Godfather, The Deer Hunter, any war film ever made, adaptations of Shakepseare's tragedies, any film that touches on American foreign policy in the last twelve years (and maybe the 20th century entirely), On the Waterfront, most of the major works of Hemingway and Steinbeck, any depictions of or analogues to recent events regarding Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden, Blow Up, adaptations of Oliver Twist and Great Expectations, Casablanca, The Third Man, any movie where anybody goes hunting (such as The Rules of the Game), any movie about the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide or other such historical events, and plenty more besides.
From the "New Hollywood" era, Five Easy Pieces might just about scrape by, if you assume that the fistfight that Nicholson's character starts near the end doesn't quite rise to the level of felonious assault.
Your criteria also leave in a pretty significant number of Adam Sandler, Will Ferrel, and Judd Apatow comedies; cheesy high school comedies, and a legion of strictly formula sports/competition films.
One of Roger Ebert's most insightful moments as a critic was his statement that "It's not what a movie is about, it's how it's about it."
posted by kewb at 5:37 AM on August 26, 2013 [20 favorites]
Your list would exclude anything like the following: a significant number of foreign films in which violence or magical realism are relevant cultural concerns, Stanley Kubrick's major films, all of film noir, The Godfather, The Deer Hunter, any war film ever made, adaptations of Shakepseare's tragedies, any film that touches on American foreign policy in the last twelve years (and maybe the 20th century entirely), On the Waterfront, most of the major works of Hemingway and Steinbeck, any depictions of or analogues to recent events regarding Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden, Blow Up, adaptations of Oliver Twist and Great Expectations, Casablanca, The Third Man, any movie where anybody goes hunting (such as The Rules of the Game), any movie about the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide or other such historical events, and plenty more besides.
From the "New Hollywood" era, Five Easy Pieces might just about scrape by, if you assume that the fistfight that Nicholson's character starts near the end doesn't quite rise to the level of felonious assault.
Your criteria also leave in a pretty significant number of Adam Sandler, Will Ferrel, and Judd Apatow comedies; cheesy high school comedies, and a legion of strictly formula sports/competition films.
One of Roger Ebert's most insightful moments as a critic was his statement that "It's not what a movie is about, it's how it's about it."
posted by kewb at 5:37 AM on August 26, 2013 [20 favorites]
I'm thinking the next in the Bourne series should be To The Manor Bourne, a remake of the gentle UK sitcom, starring Michelle Rodriguez as Audrey fforbes-Bourne.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 6:00 AM on August 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 6:00 AM on August 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
Kewb said it better than I couild but I have no problem with spaceships, aliens, etc. It's not the subject matter that's failing today's blockbusters, it's the way that they're made that I object to.
posted by octothorpe at 6:11 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:11 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The World's End cost less to make, was barely promoted, relatively speaking, and features a group of middle-aged British character actors drinking.
Which is also the premise behind the BBC shows QI, Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and Have I got News for You except they either hide the booze or preload.
I didn't go to the pub enough when I was in England but boy do I miss it now.
posted by srboisvert at 6:19 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Which is also the premise behind the BBC shows QI, Never Mind the Buzzcocks, and Have I got News for You except they either hide the booze or preload.
I didn't go to the pub enough when I was in England but boy do I miss it now.
posted by srboisvert at 6:19 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Your list would exclude anything like the following
Yes, of course I am overstating things for fun, but you can see that the US movie market is glutted with movies that are only booms and bangs and chases strung together with plot and dialog that don't rise above an old Jonny Quest episode. Moviemakers would do well to see if they can make something great that doesn't depend on Godzilla Jr. strolling down Main Street and nibbling on cars provided by the product placement team. And then, if the great plot and fantastic dialog about real life on Earth with real humans just beg for it, bring on the alien dancing girls.
posted by pracowity at 6:33 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, of course I am overstating things for fun, but you can see that the US movie market is glutted with movies that are only booms and bangs and chases strung together with plot and dialog that don't rise above an old Jonny Quest episode. Moviemakers would do well to see if they can make something great that doesn't depend on Godzilla Jr. strolling down Main Street and nibbling on cars provided by the product placement team. And then, if the great plot and fantastic dialog about real life on Earth with real humans just beg for it, bring on the alien dancing girls.
posted by pracowity at 6:33 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also what's with all the hate that Oblivion gets?
It was a dumb premise from the beginning and the ending managed to trump even that.
It's pretty and sounds nice but wraps something empty and hollow, like Tron 2 before it. But for me the bit that really broke it was...
SPOILERS
The bits that were basically the start of Moon shot in Iceland were okay, but when it turns out the stranger who had randomly dropped out of the sky into Cruise's backyard turns out to be his wife and everything in his WALL-E cave is about her.
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It was a dumb premise from the beginning and the ending managed to trump even that.
It's pretty and sounds nice but wraps something empty and hollow, like Tron 2 before it. But for me the bit that really broke it was...
SPOILERS
The bits that were basically the start of Moon shot in Iceland were okay, but when it turns out the stranger who had randomly dropped out of the sky into Cruise's backyard turns out to be his wife and everything in his WALL-E cave is about her.
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think what you guys are grasping for is cinema needs more Soderbergh... And unfortunately he just said "fuck it" to the whole thing and threw in the towel.
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by Artw at 6:38 AM on August 26, 2013
The World's End cost less to make, was barely promoted, relatively speaking, and features a group of middle-aged British character actors drinking.
Well, barely promoted by the studio at least. The Pegg, Frost, and Wright have been working non-stop since the movie premiered this summer to promote it. Seriously, Wright was on my This Week In Horticulture podcast talking about the use of topiary in the movie and how it relates to the themes of adulthood and friendship.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:42 AM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
Well, barely promoted by the studio at least. The Pegg, Frost, and Wright have been working non-stop since the movie premiered this summer to promote it. Seriously, Wright was on my This Week In Horticulture podcast talking about the use of topiary in the movie and how it relates to the themes of adulthood and friendship.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:42 AM on August 26, 2013 [9 favorites]
Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz are also excellent promotions for it.
posted by Artw at 6:44 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:44 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Moviemakers would do well to see if they can make something great that doesn't depend on Godzilla Jr. strolling down Main Street and nibbling on cars provided by the product placement team.
A quick glance at IMDB shows there's plenty of non special effects blockbuster type movies out now, at the end of the usual summer blockbuster season and fall is looking promising for non-blockbuster material.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on August 26, 2013
A quick glance at IMDB shows there's plenty of non special effects blockbuster type movies out now, at the end of the usual summer blockbuster season and fall is looking promising for non-blockbuster material.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on August 26, 2013
Remember, what pracowity is actually asking for is more versions of My Dinner With Andre. That's what the " Why won't Hollywood make GOOD films" crowd is always asking for.
But rejoice! I hear Woody Allen is purring out another character drama soon!
posted by happyroach at 6:52 AM on August 26, 2013
But rejoice! I hear Woody Allen is purring out another character drama soon!
posted by happyroach at 6:52 AM on August 26, 2013
You get a bunch of those of variable quality every Oscar Films season. It's the mid-list that's fucked.
posted by Artw at 7:08 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by Artw at 7:08 AM on August 26, 2013
Hey, as far as I'm concerned, the one, true, official Batman next year is going to be Will Arnett in the LEGO Movie. I mean, he's played a millionaire at least twice, and hey, illusions are what Batman's all about.
"Sure, like the guy in the $10M Bat-suit is going to climb a building sideways, COME ON!"
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:10 AM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
"Sure, like the guy in the $10M Bat-suit is going to climb a building sideways, COME ON!"
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:10 AM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
We really don't need any more Batman films.
posted by panaceanot at 7:25 AM on August 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by panaceanot at 7:25 AM on August 26, 2013 [7 favorites]
...but back to Elysium
I would guess the justification for this has to do with some kind of licensing arrangement, but it's very hard to imagine a circumstance under which there wouldn't be at least a few medipods on Earth for the little girls dying of leukemia and the victims of industrial accidents.
I realize that I'm retconning this in in a way that's probably not supported by the movie, but my assumption is that running a pod costs $50-100K in today's money, every time. They could have one for little girls with leukemia, but all the girls who could afford it are on Elysium.
After subjecting Matt Damon to robot cop abuse, totally unjustified parole extension, and a lethal radiation dose, that's not enough of a maguffin to drive the story and so we have to also have the ex with a five year old girl who's dying of leukemia.
The ex's little girl doesn't drive that part of the story.
One of the things I like about Blomkamp is that he's willing to deliver main characters that are believably small, petty men. Both Copley in District 9 and Damon in Elysium don't have any higher motivation until very late in the game. For almost the whole movie, they're just people who really, really don't want to die. Damon doesn't want to bring Ex and Girl with him; they're just in the shuttle because Copley wants them to be. Really, he only seems to flip over to Noble Sacrificial Guy when he gives up and thinks it's too late to save himself.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would guess the justification for this has to do with some kind of licensing arrangement, but it's very hard to imagine a circumstance under which there wouldn't be at least a few medipods on Earth for the little girls dying of leukemia and the victims of industrial accidents.
I realize that I'm retconning this in in a way that's probably not supported by the movie, but my assumption is that running a pod costs $50-100K in today's money, every time. They could have one for little girls with leukemia, but all the girls who could afford it are on Elysium.
After subjecting Matt Damon to robot cop abuse, totally unjustified parole extension, and a lethal radiation dose, that's not enough of a maguffin to drive the story and so we have to also have the ex with a five year old girl who's dying of leukemia.
The ex's little girl doesn't drive that part of the story.
One of the things I like about Blomkamp is that he's willing to deliver main characters that are believably small, petty men. Both Copley in District 9 and Damon in Elysium don't have any higher motivation until very late in the game. For almost the whole movie, they're just people who really, really don't want to die. Damon doesn't want to bring Ex and Girl with him; they're just in the shuttle because Copley wants them to be. Really, he only seems to flip over to Noble Sacrificial Guy when he gives up and thinks it's too late to save himself.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:26 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, The World's End was fucking great, FWIW.
I have to disagree. It was a serious letdown for me, easily the weakest of the trilogy and so much so that it exposed some flaws in Hot Fuzz that I hadn't recognized before.
The production was great, Frost and Pegg turned in excellent performances, but yeesh. Pretty much everything past the first third was unbelievably generic. None of the build-ups in the opening had any payoff, except for the stuff about Gary King that was all but stamped as FORESHADOWING CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT right from the opening monologue. The lack of development in Frost's character disappointed me the most: he played his part with a good deal of subtlety and nuance at the start, all for... what? A nonsense of an ending.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:29 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I have to disagree. It was a serious letdown for me, easily the weakest of the trilogy and so much so that it exposed some flaws in Hot Fuzz that I hadn't recognized before.
The production was great, Frost and Pegg turned in excellent performances, but yeesh. Pretty much everything past the first third was unbelievably generic. None of the build-ups in the opening had any payoff, except for the stuff about Gary King that was all but stamped as FORESHADOWING CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT right from the opening monologue. The lack of development in Frost's character disappointed me the most: he played his part with a good deal of subtlety and nuance at the start, all for... what? A nonsense of an ending.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:29 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
In thinking about it and noticing that Elysium is only 109 minutes long, I'm wondering if there's a longer cut somewhere that includes a little more exposition about why things are the way that they are. It seemed a little weird that the people actually on Elysium got so little screen time, even Jody Foster's actually only in it for a few scenes.
posted by octothorpe at 7:32 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by octothorpe at 7:32 AM on August 26, 2013
The World's End cost less to make, was barely promoted, relatively speaking, and features a group of middle-aged British character actors drinking.
I know, it was a damn near perfect combination wasn't it?
posted by quin at 7:38 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
I know, it was a damn near perfect combination wasn't it?
posted by quin at 7:38 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
Well, I guess it's a good a time as any to ask this: Anyone seen the new Gosling film, Only God Forgives (redband trailer) yt ? Is it any good?
Well I thought it was a masterpiece... but I can also see why people hated it.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:46 AM on August 26, 2013
Well I thought it was a masterpiece... but I can also see why people hated it.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:46 AM on August 26, 2013
Brandon Blatcher: Anyway, all I want is Pacific Rim sequel then Hollywood can implode.
It's definitely a go. Test footage is already leaking onto the net.
posted by Naberius at 7:49 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's definitely a go. Test footage is already leaking onto the net.
posted by Naberius at 7:49 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I would guess the justification for this has to do with some kind of licensing arrangement, but it's very hard to imagine a circumstance under which there wouldn't be at least a few medipods on Earth for the little girls dying of leukemia and the victims of industrial accidents.
There might be. There might not be. The doctor at the hospital that Fey worked at pointedly said (paraphrasing) "This isn't Elysium, we can't cure everyone". In that very scene, it's implied that a higher board has determined that the Fey's girl was well enough to go home and if if she got sick radically sick again could she come back to the hospital.
As to Max, it was made plainly clear that he just didn't matter, he was a monkey who could be replaced in half a sec. Hell, the rich CEO was worried about having to change the bedding in the med lab from Max's accident.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:51 AM on August 26, 2013
There might be. There might not be. The doctor at the hospital that Fey worked at pointedly said (paraphrasing) "This isn't Elysium, we can't cure everyone". In that very scene, it's implied that a higher board has determined that the Fey's girl was well enough to go home and if if she got sick radically sick again could she come back to the hospital.
As to Max, it was made plainly clear that he just didn't matter, he was a monkey who could be replaced in half a sec. Hell, the rich CEO was worried about having to change the bedding in the med lab from Max's accident.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:51 AM on August 26, 2013
Guys... GUYS! I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!
Just take all of the Burton movies that feature a Depp/Carter duo... and like, sorta like, you know... remake them with the Cusack/Cusack duo.
I'm guessing there's a Tumblr for this already, right?
posted by Blue_Villain at 7:57 AM on August 26, 2013
Just take all of the Burton movies that feature a Depp/Carter duo... and like, sorta like, you know... remake them with the Cusack/Cusack duo.
I'm guessing there's a Tumblr for this already, right?
posted by Blue_Villain at 7:57 AM on August 26, 2013
Just take all of the Burton movies that feature a Depp/Carter duo... and like, sorta like, you know... remake them with the Cusack/Cusack duo.
Cage/Busey. They will trade off wearing the wig.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:58 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Cage/Busey. They will trade off wearing the wig.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 7:58 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
I don't think the blockbuster is going to die any time soon. The financing behind Hollywood is increasingly labyrinthine and opaque. No film fails to make money now if you can look far enough ahead, even infamous mega-flop Cleopatra went into the black recently. And films, especially big blockbusters, are just one part of multi-platform entertainment mega-franchisees. Recently read an article that puts forward the idea that a film like Planes is essentially an advert for toys that you pay for the privilege of watching.
That's not to say they someone somewhere is going to take a hit if a film under performs, even if just means some execs career faltering. Everyone is watching their back so established properties and formulas (like save the cat) are used so that if there is a failure on some level then Producer X can at least say 'well it worked before!'
There's plenty of boom and CGI thrown on screen with the loosest of plot because you want your film to be taken up by the increasingly large audience for which English is not their first language.
It's not all terrible but it's really only in the cheap and cheerful (and weird) indie are you going to find anything good nowadays. One of the best films I've seen in years, possibly ever - A Field In England - I saw this year, but I imagine it's budget wouldn't cover the on set coffees for one of the block busters. It's the grown up middle cost intelligent film that's vanished and for that time of experience you have to go to television. Even the Oscar baiters have started too look more and more formulaic and clichéd - that Whitehouse butler thing looks terrible.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:05 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's not to say they someone somewhere is going to take a hit if a film under performs, even if just means some execs career faltering. Everyone is watching their back so established properties and formulas (like save the cat) are used so that if there is a failure on some level then Producer X can at least say 'well it worked before!'
There's plenty of boom and CGI thrown on screen with the loosest of plot because you want your film to be taken up by the increasingly large audience for which English is not their first language.
It's not all terrible but it's really only in the cheap and cheerful (and weird) indie are you going to find anything good nowadays. One of the best films I've seen in years, possibly ever - A Field In England - I saw this year, but I imagine it's budget wouldn't cover the on set coffees for one of the block busters. It's the grown up middle cost intelligent film that's vanished and for that time of experience you have to go to television. Even the Oscar baiters have started too look more and more formulaic and clichéd - that Whitehouse butler thing looks terrible.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:05 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The World's End. Too much world and not enough end.
posted by we are the music makers at 8:17 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by we are the music makers at 8:17 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Cage/Busey. They will trade off wearing the wig.
What about the teeth?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:20 AM on August 26, 2013
What about the teeth?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:20 AM on August 26, 2013
that Whitehouse butler thing looks terrible.
The Help 2.
Driving Mr. President.
posted by Artw at 8:28 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The Help 2.
Driving Mr. President.
posted by Artw at 8:28 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
is this really the face of Serious Science Fiction now, this thunderingly obvious metaphor dressed up with a lot of 'splosions and hammy overacting and goofy jokes? I feel like people are so starved for a real sci-fi film that a lot of praise was heaped on this one that it didn't quite earn
I enjoyed it for the most part and had no idea it was held up as serious or "real" sci-fi and I'm happy about that because I really dislike most serious and/or "real" sci-fi work.
I've seen the following free of charge (this is a key factor) recently (i.e the last couple of years):
I hope movies like that continue to be made. I don't think the death of the blockbuster (which is frankly not coming anytime soon) will make great films disappear.
posted by juiceCake at 8:43 AM on August 26, 2013
I enjoyed it for the most part and had no idea it was held up as serious or "real" sci-fi and I'm happy about that because I really dislike most serious and/or "real" sci-fi work.
I've seen the following free of charge (this is a key factor) recently (i.e the last couple of years):
- The Wolverine (fucking awful)
- Star Trek Into Darkness (ok but too long and hilariously bad at some points)
- Oblivion (ok but with conclusion that nears the horribleness of Battlestar Galactica or the terribleness of most of the new Doctor Who episodes)
- Moneyball (good)
- The Avengers (dull)
- The Amazing Spiderman (pretty bad)
- Argo (not bad for 1/2 the film and then utterly ridiculous)
- Batman Dark Knight Returns (was that what it's called?) (bad, the accompanying animated stories for each production are far better)
- The Hobbit (enjoyed it despite coming in feeling it was going to be awful, the 3D of it was spectacular as well)
I hope movies like that continue to be made. I don't think the death of the blockbuster (which is frankly not coming anytime soon) will make great films disappear.
posted by juiceCake at 8:43 AM on August 26, 2013
I cringe every time I see "inspired by true events" in an ad for something like "The Butler" because you know that they've just thrown out any actual history and just tacked standard screenwriter cliches into a vaguely historic backdrop.
posted by octothorpe at 8:46 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 8:46 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
tacked standard screenwriter cliches into a vaguely historic backdrop.
Yeah, I was kinda annoyed how much Argo changed what actually happened
Though I love this article about Pain & Gain - When the movie first tells us that it's a true story, we're seeing something that didn't happen. When we're told it's 'still a true story,' we're watching one invented character watch a semi-fictional character do something that sorta kinda took place
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:02 AM on August 26, 2013
Yeah, I was kinda annoyed how much Argo changed what actually happened
Though I love this article about Pain & Gain - When the movie first tells us that it's a true story, we're seeing something that didn't happen. When we're told it's 'still a true story,' we're watching one invented character watch a semi-fictional character do something that sorta kinda took place
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:02 AM on August 26, 2013
The Avengers (dull)
What?!
OUTSIDE, RIGHT NOW
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:04 AM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
What?!
OUTSIDE, RIGHT NOW
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:04 AM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
The Hobbit (enjoyed it despite coming in feeling it was going to be awful, the 3D of it was spectacular as well)
I liked the Hobbit just fine on first viewing, but I recently watched it again (for boring reasons) and oh my GOD did it not hold up. I ended up fast-forwarding through two-thirds of it. When you put it on a small screen and take the suspense away, there's nothing left.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I liked the Hobbit just fine on first viewing, but I recently watched it again (for boring reasons) and oh my GOD did it not hold up. I ended up fast-forwarding through two-thirds of it. When you put it on a small screen and take the suspense away, there's nothing left.
posted by restless_nomad at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The only batman movie I'd like to see anymore is The Good Soldier Švejk. Ryan Gosling is perhaps too pretty for the role though he plays a convincing lackwit. Matt Damon and Ben Affect could easily suit up as prim dipshit lieutenants and majors; hell, you could throw half of Hollywood in there, update it to Iraq or Afghanistan or whatever military morass du jour. Paul Giamatti, maybe, or Joaquin Phoenix, someone who can be funny without being self-conscious about it, someone who could play slyly stupid without winking.
Got it! From Batman to batman: Tom Hardy as Josef Švejk, possible idiot and probable incompetent, dumbly insolent and passively resistant, Yossarian's spiritual great-uncle, the finest batman in the history of world literature.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Got it! From Batman to batman: Tom Hardy as Josef Švejk, possible idiot and probable incompetent, dumbly insolent and passively resistant, Yossarian's spiritual great-uncle, the finest batman in the history of world literature.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:20 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just can't really imagine anything that could realistically happen which would entice me to care in any way about a new Batman movie. Ooh, a movie about an emotionally constipated wealthy white man! Wow this is brand new.
posted by elizardbits at 9:24 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits at 9:24 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The little bird whispering in my ear insists that 50 shades will make 9 1/2 Weeks look like Oscar material by comparison.
A week ago, I gave a refurb Kindle to a friend's 16-year old daughter. I said "There's only one condition, you're not allowed to put 50 Shades of Grey on it."
She looked at me and said "Hell no, more like Barker's Books of Blood."
I turned to her dad and said "You're raising this one right."
posted by mrbill at 9:33 AM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
A week ago, I gave a refurb Kindle to a friend's 16-year old daughter. I said "There's only one condition, you're not allowed to put 50 Shades of Grey on it."
She looked at me and said "Hell no, more like Barker's Books of Blood."
I turned to her dad and said "You're raising this one right."
posted by mrbill at 9:33 AM on August 26, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm still holding out for I Will Have Known What You Would Have Done Last Summer Next Summer.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 9:45 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by fallacy of the beard at 9:45 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Willan on-Known
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:51 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:51 AM on August 26, 2013
The continued success of the fast/furious franchise always hits me like a kick in the guts.
posted by diocletian at 9:55 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by diocletian at 9:55 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
A week ago, I gave a refurb Kindle to a friend's 16-year old daughter. I said "There's only one condition, you're not allowed to put 50 Shades of Grey on it."
Congratulations. You just made 50 Shades of Grey punk rock.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:57 AM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
Congratulations. You just made 50 Shades of Grey punk rock.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:57 AM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
I just can't really imagine anything that could realistically happen which would entice me to care in any way about a new Batman movie.
A return to camp is the only thing that would draw me in. I liked Batman Begins and A Dark Knight Rises ok, but the last in the trilogy was awful and killed any sympathy I might have had for the character. A Batman and Robin-level campy romp might do it.
It's also not at all what we're going to get. But hey, we've got plenty of Marvel coming up.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:03 AM on August 26, 2013
A return to camp is the only thing that would draw me in. I liked Batman Begins and A Dark Knight Rises ok, but the last in the trilogy was awful and killed any sympathy I might have had for the character. A Batman and Robin-level campy romp might do it.
It's also not at all what we're going to get. But hey, we've got plenty of Marvel coming up.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:03 AM on August 26, 2013
I just can't really imagine anything that could realistically happen which would entice me to care in any way about a new Batman movie. Ooh, a movie about an emotionally constipated wealthy white man! Wow this is brand new.
19 Reasons Why Idris Elba Should Be Batman…
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:09 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
19 Reasons Why Idris Elba Should Be Batman…
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:09 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just can't really imagine anything that could realistically happen which would entice me to care in any way about a new Batman movie. Ooh, a movie about an emotionally constipated wealthy white man! Wow this is brand new.
What if they let Grant Morrison write and direct?
posted by Sangermaine at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2013
What if they let Grant Morrison write and direct?
posted by Sangermaine at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2013
Like I said, "realistically". No matter how much I would enjoy seeing a black Batman or James Bond, it's not gonna happen.
posted by elizardbits at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2013
Affleck - Batman, Damon - Robin, Kevin Smith - Penguin, Jason Mewes - The Joker
I'm right here Hollywood, right here!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:11 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm right here Hollywood, right here!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:11 AM on August 26, 2013 [4 favorites]
I want to see Idris Elba as Jon Stewart in "Green Lantern: Mosaic" - where he uses his vast power to bring peace, harmony and, of all things, philosophical consistency to a patchwork planet! It was weird and smart in the same way as the Animal Man and Doom Patrol reboots of the time, and DC killed it in a panic in the face of strong sales lest they lose a major mask-and-tights franchise to Vertigo.
I mean, who wouldn't want to see a CGI-animated chorus of clergy-birds?
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:23 AM on August 26, 2013
I mean, who wouldn't want to see a CGI-animated chorus of clergy-birds?
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:23 AM on August 26, 2013
I went to the theatre for a live broadcast of the RiffTrax crew doing Starship Troopers.
THAT is the future of movies for me. That is what is going to get me to pay $13 ticket and buy your overpriced popcorn.
And I'm already giddily waiting for their Night Of The Living Dead tickets to go on sale.
posted by Theta States at 10:32 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
THAT is the future of movies for me. That is what is going to get me to pay $13 ticket and buy your overpriced popcorn.
And I'm already giddily waiting for their Night Of The Living Dead tickets to go on sale.
posted by Theta States at 10:32 AM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
With all this talk of box office gross, I'm curious how much of that gets eaten up by distribution. Like, I pay $10 to go see a movie, some portion of that will get eaten up by the theater, and the theater's franchise, and ... how much makes its way back to the studio? $8? $5? $2? This matters a lot for determining if a movie is profitable.
posted by kafziel at 10:55 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by kafziel at 10:55 AM on August 26, 2013
I want to see Idris Elba as Jon Stewart in "Green Lantern: Mosaic"
I read this as Idris Elba and Jon Stewart in "Green Lantern: Musical"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:03 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
I read this as Idris Elba and Jon Stewart in "Green Lantern: Musical"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:03 AM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Who wants to read my 'I Hope So' slash? I've been working on it for like 15 minutes and I think it's almost good.
posted by mintcake! at 11:28 AM on August 26, 2013
posted by mintcake! at 11:28 AM on August 26, 2013
With all this talk of box office gross, I'm curious how much of that gets eaten up by distribution.
It depends... generally in the opening week the film company gets the majority of the money (off the top my head I think it's 80%), then in the following weeks more starts to go to the theatre until it's like to 50/50
Also you have to take 'prints and distribution', which includes advertising, off the gross... the rule of thumb used to be that a film had to have a gross of double its stated production costs to go into profit.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:48 AM on August 26, 2013
It depends... generally in the opening week the film company gets the majority of the money (off the top my head I think it's 80%), then in the following weeks more starts to go to the theatre until it's like to 50/50
Also you have to take 'prints and distribution', which includes advertising, off the gross... the rule of thumb used to be that a film had to have a gross of double its stated production costs to go into profit.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:48 AM on August 26, 2013
This is posted in another thread... Stop Blaming ‘Jaws’!
Its description of what Jaws would be like now is hilariously (and horrifically) accurate. And nails that what is wrong with film is that they've swapped action for suspense
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:06 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
Its description of what Jaws would be like now is hilariously (and horrifically) accurate. And nails that what is wrong with film is that they've swapped action for suspense
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:06 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
The best part of Jaws was that you almost never actually see the damn shark and that was because the special effects were so terrible that they had to cut 90% of them out. If they remade it, you'd see a CGI shark for the whole damn movie.
posted by octothorpe at 12:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:11 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
Or Idris Elba in a shark costume.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:29 PM on August 26, 2013 [2 favorites]
If they remade it, you'd see a CGI shark for the whole damn movie.
...but then later Spielberg would decide that sharks are too scary so he'd retcon-CGI in a friendly porpoise.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:30 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
...but then later Spielberg would decide that sharks are too scary so he'd retcon-CGI in a friendly porpoise.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:30 PM on August 26, 2013 [6 favorites]
We open on a rock star (played by Shia LaBeouf) and his supermodel wife (played by a supermodel) snorkeling in the crystal blue waters off Bora Bora, when a fin the size of a house emerges from the water.
And then coming up out of the water in front of them are two heads/tentacles/high-force winds!
posted by JHarris at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2013
And then coming up out of the water in front of them are two heads/tentacles/high-force winds!
posted by JHarris at 12:32 PM on August 26, 2013
But seriously, that "Stop Blaming 'Jaws'" article has the modern blockbuster's number down pat. You could easily imagine it being a synopsis of a script.
posted by JHarris at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by JHarris at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2013
We rewatched Return of the King at my son's request and I swear to God I wanted to reach into that fucking screen and throw stupid Frodo onto the stupid boat and just end the damn movie. Nobody on screen, not even people who are about to Do It, should spend that much time looking big-eyed at each other while saaaad, slooooow music plays.
The Hobbit is one of my favorite books, but when I found out Jackson was splitting it up into three movies, I knew that could only mean More Significant Sad Looks or something equally annoying. Maybe more spinny vertigo landscapes around the travelers or CGI creatures arguing.
Eventually, every Peter Jackson movie will be split into 12 3-hour parts, 2 hours of which is nothing but landscapes and people looking sad.
posted by emjaybee at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
The Hobbit is one of my favorite books, but when I found out Jackson was splitting it up into three movies, I knew that could only mean More Significant Sad Looks or something equally annoying. Maybe more spinny vertigo landscapes around the travelers or CGI creatures arguing.
Eventually, every Peter Jackson movie will be split into 12 3-hour parts, 2 hours of which is nothing but landscapes and people looking sad.
posted by emjaybee at 12:36 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
He's not the Batman I would envision (Idris Elba anyone?)
19 Reasons Why Idris Elba Should Be Batman…
Dude, you're seriously linking to the same article twice in one thread? Are you part of a William Morris street team?
*points two fingers at eyes, points two fingers at you*
posted by phaedon at 12:44 PM on August 26, 2013
19 Reasons Why Idris Elba Should Be Batman…
Dude, you're seriously linking to the same article twice in one thread? Are you part of a William Morris street team?
*points two fingers at eyes, points two fingers at you*
posted by phaedon at 12:44 PM on August 26, 2013
Dude, you're seriously linking to the same article twice in one thread?
Be subtle with it, man. You know what subtle means?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:53 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Be subtle with it, man. You know what subtle means?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:53 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
You know what subtle means?
It means that I've got your number, I'll steal your thunder, I've got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm.
posted by quin at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2013
It means that I've got your number, I'll steal your thunder, I've got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm.
posted by quin at 1:16 PM on August 26, 2013
Like I said, "realistically". No matter how much I would enjoy seeing a black Batman or James Bond, it's not gonna happen.
The black Batman already exists, he's named Black Panther and in addition to being a gadget/martial-arts-based international-scale hero, he is also the rightful king of his own technologically-advanced African nation.
By contrast, Batman just has an enormously impractical car, a spooky sekrit no-gurls-allowed clubhouse, and enough parental-abandonment and control issues to send several psychiatrists' kids to the Ivy League colleges of their choice.
No luck on the black James Bond, though.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:43 PM on August 26, 2013
The black Batman already exists, he's named Black Panther and in addition to being a gadget/martial-arts-based international-scale hero, he is also the rightful king of his own technologically-advanced African nation.
By contrast, Batman just has an enormously impractical car, a spooky sekrit no-gurls-allowed clubhouse, and enough parental-abandonment and control issues to send several psychiatrists' kids to the Ivy League colleges of their choice.
No luck on the black James Bond, though.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:43 PM on August 26, 2013
It means that I've got your number, I'll steal your thunder, I've got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm.
Quin, this here game is more than the rep you carry, the corner you hold. You gotta be fierce, I know that, but more than that, you gotta show some flex, give and take on both sides.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:50 PM on August 26, 2013
Quin, this here game is more than the rep you carry, the corner you hold. You gotta be fierce, I know that, but more than that, you gotta show some flex, give and take on both sides.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:50 PM on August 26, 2013
Anyway, I finally saw Pacific Rim on Thursday and it was actually fun. I didn't have to lull myself into accepting that it was worth watching (like some other movies this year), it was just good. So far I've seen four 2013 movies, and two of them were okay (Oz and Iron Man 3), one was awful (Man of Steel) and now Pacific Rim is the first unqualified win.
I was going to see Elysium, but if it's just visual spectacle then it might be better to wait and rent the DVD. Definitely going to see Gravity, though! The trailer for that one was really intriguing. If Gravity is good (Fingers crossed!) then that's two wins out of five, or a success rate of forty percent. Not a bad year.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:17 PM on August 26, 2013
I was going to see Elysium, but if it's just visual spectacle then it might be better to wait and rent the DVD. Definitely going to see Gravity, though! The trailer for that one was really intriguing. If Gravity is good (Fingers crossed!) then that's two wins out of five, or a success rate of forty percent. Not a bad year.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:17 PM on August 26, 2013
Man of Steel thread for complaining about Man of Steel in.
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by Artw at 2:22 PM on August 26, 2013
It's remarkable that there were so many original science fiction films in 2013. There were two I didn't even get to see (Oblivion and Upstream Color). It's true that many of the SF movies succumbed to blockbusteritis (huge budgets, nothing but action), but at least they're not sequels. And there's still hope for the rest of the year.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:32 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 2:32 PM on August 26, 2013
The bits that were basically the start of Moon shot in Iceland were okay, but when it turns out the stranger who had randomly dropped out of the sky into Cruise's backyard turns out to be his wife and everything in his WALL-E cave is about her.
I don't remember WALL-E that well but I guess you mean his little Thoreau hut with the sunglasses and records near the somehow magically-pristine lake? I agree with you about his sky-wife, it would have been far better if it was another crewmember who leads him on a journey full of clues and revelations and when Tom gets to the Big Spaceship to blow it up he sees his wife encased in carbonite and then has second thoughts about exploding everything and bang, fade to black, but mostly I liked it as a fun romp and because of the drones and the noises they made.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:42 PM on August 26, 2013
I don't remember WALL-E that well but I guess you mean his little Thoreau hut with the sunglasses and records near the somehow magically-pristine lake? I agree with you about his sky-wife, it would have been far better if it was another crewmember who leads him on a journey full of clues and revelations and when Tom gets to the Big Spaceship to blow it up he sees his wife encased in carbonite and then has second thoughts about exploding everything and bang, fade to black, but mostly I liked it as a fun romp and because of the drones and the noises they made.
posted by turbid dahlia at 2:42 PM on August 26, 2013
Oh yeah, and After Earth! Another original science fictioner. But it looked so awful I completely forgot about it after reading the first review.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:45 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 2:45 PM on August 26, 2013
but mostly I liked it as a fun romp and because of the drones and the noises they made.
I mostly felt the same way. I think there was a good movie buried beneath the cliches in the script and Tom Cruise's performance.
posted by codacorolla at 2:48 PM on August 26, 2013
I mostly felt the same way. I think there was a good movie buried beneath the cliches in the script and Tom Cruise's performance.
posted by codacorolla at 2:48 PM on August 26, 2013
Upstream Color
Jesus, THAT film. It was a fantastically directed and acted, with top notch sound design that added another intriguing level to the film.
But the ending was brutal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:49 PM on August 26, 2013
Jesus, THAT film. It was a fantastically directed and acted, with top notch sound design that added another intriguing level to the film.
But the ending was brutal.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:49 PM on August 26, 2013
My article on Pacific Rim and the Japanese comic/anime that comes closest to being the same story (that's Attack on Titan, if you were wondering) will be at Hooded Utilitarian tomorrow, y'all should come back to this thread then and check it out. It's all about the importance of managing expectations and how del Toro's movie could have been better - at least by my standards - if it had been just a bit more idiosyncratic and less predictable.
posted by subdee at 3:08 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by subdee at 3:08 PM on August 26, 2013
Another original science fictioner.
FSVO original.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:31 PM on August 26, 2013
FSVO original.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:31 PM on August 26, 2013
Pacific Rim and the Japanese comic/anime that comes closest to being the same story (that's Attack on Titan, if you were wondering)
Surely Evangelion? I love Attack on Titan but other than big monsters I'm not seeing a lot of similarity.
posted by rifflesby at 4:42 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
Surely Evangelion? I love Attack on Titan but other than big monsters I'm not seeing a lot of similarity.
posted by rifflesby at 4:42 PM on August 26, 2013 [1 favorite]
The author also lists R.I.P.D. as an original story, while in fact it's based on a comic book series publish by Dark Horse in 1999.
posted by mbrubeck at 4:46 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by mbrubeck at 4:46 PM on August 26, 2013
I guess he said "original property" and means only that it's not a sequel or remake of a movie (though that still doesn't explain the Lone Ranger thing). But it's notable that of the twelve "non-sequels" he lists, at least a third are adaptations or remakes of books, comics, TV/radio shows, etc.
posted by mbrubeck at 5:13 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by mbrubeck at 5:13 PM on August 26, 2013
Oblivion is sort of based on a comic, but I beleive it's a fake in the Cowboys Vs Aliens mold.
posted by Artw at 5:17 PM on August 26, 2013
posted by Artw at 5:17 PM on August 26, 2013
Or Idris Elba in a shark costume.
who else is suffering from confused arousal
anyone
plz
posted by elizardbits at 7:58 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
who else is suffering from confused arousal
anyone
plz
posted by elizardbits at 7:58 PM on August 26, 2013 [3 favorites]
The author also lists R.I.P.D. as an original story, while in fact it's based on a comic book series publish by Dark Horse in 1999.
What a coincidence, so was Men in Black...
posted by Apocryphon at 8:13 PM on August 26, 2013
What a coincidence, so was Men in Black...
posted by Apocryphon at 8:13 PM on August 26, 2013
Oh yeah, and After Earth! Another original science fictioner. But it looked so awful I completely forgot about it after reading the first review.
CRASH LANDING ON PLANET NEPOTISM
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:29 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
CRASH LANDING ON PLANET NEPOTISM
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 6:29 AM on August 27, 2013 [2 favorites]
Surely Evangelion?
No way no how.
Pacific Rim is about giant robots fighting giant monsters. At that level, Evangelion is about an enslaved giant monster cyborg fighting its distant relatives.
Pacific Rim is about friendship and love and honor and sacrifice-through-love and heroism and more heroism in the unlikeliest places and so on. Whereas Evangelion is about loneliness and despair and suicide and despair and betrayal and despair and betrayal some more and betrayal a shitload and dysfunction and sadness and hopeless yearning and crushed dreams and worthlessness and the impossibility of redemption.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
No way no how.
Pacific Rim is about giant robots fighting giant monsters. At that level, Evangelion is about an enslaved giant monster cyborg fighting its distant relatives.
Pacific Rim is about friendship and love and honor and sacrifice-through-love and heroism and more heroism in the unlikeliest places and so on. Whereas Evangelion is about loneliness and despair and suicide and despair and betrayal and despair and betrayal some more and betrayal a shitload and dysfunction and sadness and hopeless yearning and crushed dreams and worthlessness and the impossibility of redemption.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:00 AM on August 27, 2013 [4 favorites]
Coming next summer: In a world...
Actually, In a World... has already opened in the U.S.
posted by psoas at 7:39 AM on August 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Actually, In a World... has already opened in the U.S.
posted by psoas at 7:39 AM on August 27, 2013 [1 favorite]
Star Trek Into Darkness and the missing Blu-ray extras
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:30 AM on August 29, 2013
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:30 AM on August 29, 2013
Just how bad was the summer movie season?
posted by octothorpe at 7:57 AM on August 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 7:57 AM on August 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
I hadn't considered that the summer had been particularly worse than average for movies until I read that title. Then the article takes pains to prove it wasn't that bad. STATUS QUO PRESERVED!!
posted by JHarris at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 4:05 PM on August 29, 2013 [1 favorite]
You want to see what is killing Hollywood? Someone thought it was a good idea to spend $32 Million making this piece of crap.
According to Rotten Tomatoes, the movie is 84% fresh and made $96.8 million, so that observation seems incorrect.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:53 AM on September 1, 2013
According to Rotten Tomatoes, the movie is 84% fresh and made $96.8 million, so that observation seems incorrect.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:53 AM on September 1, 2013
Don't worry folks, 2015 is going to be awesome! (well they'll be a Star Wars movie anyway)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:09 AM on September 1, 2013
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:09 AM on September 1, 2013
I really do look at that and wonder how the fuck it can be sustainable.
posted by Artw at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2013
posted by Artw at 8:11 AM on September 1, 2013
According to Rotten Tomatoes, the movie is 84% fresh and made $96.8 million, so that observation seems incorrect.
That's gross, not net. A $32M film that only grosses 3x its production budget is a money loser. There are a lot of leeches in Hollywood. Some of them were in that film.
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:21 AM on September 1, 2013
That's gross, not net. A $32M film that only grosses 3x its production budget is a money loser. There are a lot of leeches in Hollywood. Some of them were in that film.
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:21 AM on September 1, 2013
That's gross, not net. A $32M film that only grosses 3x its production budget is a money loser
I appreciate that you said this authoritatively, but I'd love to see some actual evidence of this. By every Hollywood metric I know, This Is The End was a runaway sleeper hit.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:04 AM on September 1, 2013
I appreciate that you said this authoritatively, but I'd love to see some actual evidence of this. By every Hollywood metric I know, This Is The End was a runaway sleeper hit.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:04 AM on September 1, 2013
Well Bunny, it's funny how Hollywood Accounting works. On paper, even tent-pole films don't make a profit. It's all sucked up by the leeches and the balance sheet ends up at exactly zero. That's how the system works. If you make 3x the production budget in grosses, you have $64M in alleged profits. That is barely enough for the marketing campaign it takes to buy a "sleeper hit" so your investment in a name brand director keeps paying off on the next film. There is barely enough money left over for cocaine and hookers.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:48 AM on September 1, 2013
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:48 AM on September 1, 2013
"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer when you don't actually know something.
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, you misunderstood my request -- I was asking for a link to someplace that verifies what you're saying, not for you to simply repeat your unsourced assertion with more detail.
I understand that you personally didn't like This Is The End, which is your right. But I'd rather see Hollywood make smaller budgeted niche films that make a profit than massive four quadrant tentpoles that start without scripts based on bizarre existing IPs and court disaster, as they have been doing. I think This Is The End is potentially a good model for a revitalization of smaller-budget filmmaking, and so if you're going to make the claim that it actually lost money -- indeed, your claim was that it's killing Hollywood -- I'd love to see some actual facts instead of hoary chestnuts about Hollywood voodoo economics.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I understand that you personally didn't like This Is The End, which is your right. But I'd rather see Hollywood make smaller budgeted niche films that make a profit than massive four quadrant tentpoles that start without scripts based on bizarre existing IPs and court disaster, as they have been doing. I think This Is The End is potentially a good model for a revitalization of smaller-budget filmmaking, and so if you're going to make the claim that it actually lost money -- indeed, your claim was that it's killing Hollywood -- I'd love to see some actual facts instead of hoary chestnuts about Hollywood voodoo economics.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 11:53 AM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I can't track down any reference to This Is The End's marketing budget, but what I have tracked down suggests they relied heavily on so-called vital marketing and eschewed traditional marketing, which, in my experience, usually means the marketing budget was so low that they had to go another route. There were a lot of gimmicks, like ticket discounts if you preordered on 4/20 and James Franco painting murals in Los Angeles, and they had an even bigger, William Castle-style gimmick -- a ton of absurd celebrity cameos where movie stars died.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:00 PM on September 1, 2013
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:00 PM on September 1, 2013
The thing about Hollywood economics is true when there's someone sharing profits that the studio wants to screw, but the thing is a film that cost $32M on paper and grossed $96M is not really a money loser and is virtually guaranteed a sequel treatment in today's industry.
posted by localroger at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 12:15 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just don't know where I could have gotten such a stupid idea that tentpole movies don't make a profit. But I am sure that this topic has been discussed for many years on a variety of poorly sourced and disreputable publications.
But basically the rule of thumb that studio execs told me was that a film had to gross well over 3x the production budget to break even. 3x is about the break even point.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:53 PM on September 1, 2013
But basically the rule of thumb that studio execs told me was that a film had to gross well over 3x the production budget to break even. 3x is about the break even point.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:53 PM on September 1, 2013
This Is The End was not a tent pole film. It was produced and marketed as a niche comedy.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2013
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 1:02 PM on September 1, 2013
..that even tentpole movies don't make a profit.
I'm not going to explain Hollywood Accounting to you, because nobody can explain it. But if the studio doesn't make a profit, nobody makes a profit. And it's in their economic interest to make sure they take all the profits. The movie at hand was produced by Sony Pictures, which is in the midst of a shareholder revolt due to low profits, and in fact, only just made a modest profit the last quarter.
The 3x breakeven is a well established bit of Hollywood folklore. It is even cited in novels, like on the wikipedia page for Hollywood Accounting:
A big studio got over half the profit, after setting breakeven at about three times the cost..
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:23 PM on September 1, 2013
I'm not going to explain Hollywood Accounting to you, because nobody can explain it. But if the studio doesn't make a profit, nobody makes a profit. And it's in their economic interest to make sure they take all the profits. The movie at hand was produced by Sony Pictures, which is in the midst of a shareholder revolt due to low profits, and in fact, only just made a modest profit the last quarter.
The 3x breakeven is a well established bit of Hollywood folklore. It is even cited in novels, like on the wikipedia page for Hollywood Accounting:
A big studio got over half the profit, after setting breakeven at about three times the cost..
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:23 PM on September 1, 2013
Charlie, that 3x breakeven and the entire Hollywood Accounting article you link is about how net point contracts are paid out. This has nothing to do with whether the movie actually made money, particularly for the studio which is going to decide whether to make more movies of the same type based on its performance.
Most people in the film business don't get points at all so none of this matters to them. The thing is, if only 5% of movies actually made money (as opposed to making money on paper after the accounting tricks) then nobody would make movies. It simply wouldn't be done.
The numbers for production cost and ticket sales are pretty firm. Production cost is published after the Hollywood Accounting tricks are applied, so it is already inflated. In the case of This is the End, which probably has nobody on contract for points anyway, that is the $32 million figure; that is the inflated figure after all the accounting tricks are played for what the movie cost to make. So between $96 million revenue and $32 million most likely inflated production cost, somebody took home various shares of sixty milion and change dollars.
Even if that went entirely to the marketing and theatre people (and remember, TITE had an unusually cheap marketing strategy using viral techniques and gimmicks) that still leaves the studio with -- wait for it -- the creative accounting slosh. Yeah, of that $32 million probably $10 million is five hundred dollar ladders and forty dollar electrical outlets. That money also doesn't disappear like fairy dust. You can bet that whoever got greased by it will use their influence to make sure another similar movie is made.
posted by localroger at 1:49 PM on September 1, 2013
Most people in the film business don't get points at all so none of this matters to them. The thing is, if only 5% of movies actually made money (as opposed to making money on paper after the accounting tricks) then nobody would make movies. It simply wouldn't be done.
The numbers for production cost and ticket sales are pretty firm. Production cost is published after the Hollywood Accounting tricks are applied, so it is already inflated. In the case of This is the End, which probably has nobody on contract for points anyway, that is the $32 million figure; that is the inflated figure after all the accounting tricks are played for what the movie cost to make. So between $96 million revenue and $32 million most likely inflated production cost, somebody took home various shares of sixty milion and change dollars.
Even if that went entirely to the marketing and theatre people (and remember, TITE had an unusually cheap marketing strategy using viral techniques and gimmicks) that still leaves the studio with -- wait for it -- the creative accounting slosh. Yeah, of that $32 million probably $10 million is five hundred dollar ladders and forty dollar electrical outlets. That money also doesn't disappear like fairy dust. You can bet that whoever got greased by it will use their influence to make sure another similar movie is made.
posted by localroger at 1:49 PM on September 1, 2013
Ok you guys understand that I worked in this end of the business?
The production cost is calculated at the end of the movie production. That's why it's called the production cost. Yes these production costs are inflated, but you can only inflate it so far. The Hollywood Accounting trickery takes place during distribution and marketing, which is virtually unlimited in its capacity to make money disappear. Yes, points get distributed to everyone above the line, after production costs. Until the movie runs in theaters, and there are actual box office receipts, there is nothing to distribute. The bulk of the gross disappears into the studio and their cronies, as misc distribution and marketing charges, leaving zero net. Then there is nothing left to pay off the investors, or more often, they exactly break even, so the balance sheet ends up at zero.
And since I knew that certain people have personal grudges and won't let go until they've beaten something to death, I decided to pull a few business cards out of my old Hollywood rolodex. You know, back when we actually used business cards and put them in a real Rolodex. These are my sources. I worked with these people every day. They were my sources for general Hollywood accounting principles, and I worked on their accounting systems for several years. These are guys who threw around hundreds of millions of dollars like it was pocket change. To them, it was.
Hey check out that first card, Vice President of MCA/Universal. I left his name visible so you can verify it, he's dead. The rest I blurred since they are probably still in the biz and it would be unfair to force them to associate with this conversation. If you have reason to believe you may know these people, I can verify them privately. Now look at all those Hollywood Accountants and Accounting Services providers from Universal, CBS Films, Warner, Columbia, and a few odds and ends like DISC, oh crap they went out of business, they were a major production accounting service. And Clairemont Camera isn't your neighborhood Fotomat, they lease hundreds of millions of dollars of movie equipment to all the studios. I spent most of my time working with MCA/Universal and 20th Century Fox (which became CBS/FOX). These were all directors of accounting, production finance, business department heads, accounting/MIS managers, independent CPA auditors who helpedcook audit the books, etc. Oops I ran out of room on the scanner.
Therefore, it is obvious that I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Hollywood Accounting system and I have never had any contact with any authoritative sources who do. I am just hand waving and talking out of my ass.
posted by charlie don't surf at 2:38 PM on September 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
The production cost is calculated at the end of the movie production. That's why it's called the production cost. Yes these production costs are inflated, but you can only inflate it so far. The Hollywood Accounting trickery takes place during distribution and marketing, which is virtually unlimited in its capacity to make money disappear. Yes, points get distributed to everyone above the line, after production costs. Until the movie runs in theaters, and there are actual box office receipts, there is nothing to distribute. The bulk of the gross disappears into the studio and their cronies, as misc distribution and marketing charges, leaving zero net. Then there is nothing left to pay off the investors, or more often, they exactly break even, so the balance sheet ends up at zero.
And since I knew that certain people have personal grudges and won't let go until they've beaten something to death, I decided to pull a few business cards out of my old Hollywood rolodex. You know, back when we actually used business cards and put them in a real Rolodex. These are my sources. I worked with these people every day. They were my sources for general Hollywood accounting principles, and I worked on their accounting systems for several years. These are guys who threw around hundreds of millions of dollars like it was pocket change. To them, it was.
Hey check out that first card, Vice President of MCA/Universal. I left his name visible so you can verify it, he's dead. The rest I blurred since they are probably still in the biz and it would be unfair to force them to associate with this conversation. If you have reason to believe you may know these people, I can verify them privately. Now look at all those Hollywood Accountants and Accounting Services providers from Universal, CBS Films, Warner, Columbia, and a few odds and ends like DISC, oh crap they went out of business, they were a major production accounting service. And Clairemont Camera isn't your neighborhood Fotomat, they lease hundreds of millions of dollars of movie equipment to all the studios. I spent most of my time working with MCA/Universal and 20th Century Fox (which became CBS/FOX). These were all directors of accounting, production finance, business department heads, accounting/MIS managers, independent CPA auditors who helped
Therefore, it is obvious that I have no knowledge whatsoever of the Hollywood Accounting system and I have never had any contact with any authoritative sources who do. I am just hand waving and talking out of my ass.
posted by charlie don't surf at 2:38 PM on September 1, 2013 [2 favorites]
This Is The End is pretty irrelevant to the subject of this thread. It's a relatively low budget goofy vanity project and no one's idea of a blockbuster.
posted by octothorpe at 3:35 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 3:35 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
I am just hand waving and talking out of my ass.
It's as though Gerald Scarfe and Guillermo del Toro have collaborated to fill my mind's eye with a moving image: a set of human hindquarters, legs walking backwards, with a waving arm emerging from between the cheeks. At the end of the arm is a hairy hand in the center of which sits a large, lipsticked, pearl-toothed mouth.
With the urgency of the disembodied mouth in Samuel Beckett's "Not I," the mouth-on-the-hand-of-the-arm-waving-from-the-ass engages in a loud rapid-fire disquisition, from professional experience, on the finer points of Hollywood accounting.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:40 PM on September 1, 2013
It's as though Gerald Scarfe and Guillermo del Toro have collaborated to fill my mind's eye with a moving image: a set of human hindquarters, legs walking backwards, with a waving arm emerging from between the cheeks. At the end of the arm is a hairy hand in the center of which sits a large, lipsticked, pearl-toothed mouth.
With the urgency of the disembodied mouth in Samuel Beckett's "Not I," the mouth-on-the-hand-of-the-arm-waving-from-the-ass engages in a loud rapid-fire disquisition, from professional experience, on the finer points of Hollywood accounting.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 3:40 PM on September 1, 2013
The system you (and Wikipedia) are describing is one designed to hide real profits by showing paper losses, a way of gaming the systems for distributing and taxing those profits. But no one believes that these movies around Hollywood's "break even" point on paper are actually only breaking even. That's the whole complaint about "Hollywood accounting! It's not that the profits don't exist; it's that they're being unfairly allocated by the studios. From your own link:
posted by mbrubeck at 3:42 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Art Buchwald received a settlement after his lawsuit Buchwald v. Paramount over Paramount's use of Hollywood accounting. The court found Paramount's actions "unconscionable", noting that it was impossible to believe that a movie (1988's Eddie Murphy comedy Coming to America) which grossed US$350 million failed to make a profit, especially since the actual production costs were less than a tenth of that.And anyway, This is the End has already passed the 3x "break even" rule of thumb, and is set for re-release this month so the box office number will continue to rise. And as many people above point out, by nature it's not really relevant to the overall financial picture of the industry.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:42 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, it probably is the future of Hollywood and its financial picture. Apparently I am wrong, it is possible to make a sustainable financial model based on a movie audience consisting solely of 12 year old boys.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:50 PM on September 1, 2013
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:50 PM on September 1, 2013
By the way, a few other movies whose domestic gross was less than 3x their production budget: Django Unchained, The Social Network, Toy Story 3 (and 2), Inception. Are these films also "killing Hollywood" and "money losers"?
posted by mbrubeck at 4:03 PM on September 1, 2013
posted by mbrubeck at 4:03 PM on September 1, 2013
Ok you guys understand that I worked in this end of the business?
You're under the dual misapprehension that you're alone in working on that end of the business and that an argument from authority has any weight here.
Also, I liked This Is the End, and I am 45.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 4:30 PM on September 1, 2013
You're under the dual misapprehension that you're alone in working on that end of the business and that an argument from authority has any weight here.
Also, I liked This Is the End, and I am 45.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 4:30 PM on September 1, 2013
And let me just clarify, I spent five years working in Hollywood, and 20 as an arts and entertainment journalist, and so my response whenever somebody says "This is how it works in Hollywood" is to say "where's the proof?" Because I have never been in a town more filled with know-it-alls who actually don't know anything at all. It's amazing how much garbage gets passed off as common wisdom, or complete conjecture is passed off as established fact. The only thing I have found to be true in the film industry is what William Goldman famously wrote: "Nobody knows anything."
So my response to your comments, charlie don't surf, isn't personal. It's a well-learned reflex to people making unsourced pronouncement about the film industry. Especially in defense on an indefensible claim, like the idea that This Is The End is killing the film industry. If you're interested, there's actually a very interesting interview with Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen on The Business where they talk about their failure at making a tentpole film with The Green Hornet and why they deliberately scaled back to a different business model with their current film.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 4:56 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
So my response to your comments, charlie don't surf, isn't personal. It's a well-learned reflex to people making unsourced pronouncement about the film industry. Especially in defense on an indefensible claim, like the idea that This Is The End is killing the film industry. If you're interested, there's actually a very interesting interview with Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen on The Business where they talk about their failure at making a tentpole film with The Green Hornet and why they deliberately scaled back to a different business model with their current film.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 4:56 PM on September 1, 2013 [1 favorite]
Wait, they made that obnoxious Green Hornet movie?! ARGH FULL OF WRATH.
Apparently I am wrong, it is possible to make a sustainable financial model based on a movie audience consisting solely of 12 year old boys.
Well, unfortunately 12-year-olds are getting older all the time. I dare somebody to unpack THAT one.
posted by JHarris at 5:51 PM on September 1, 2013
Apparently I am wrong, it is possible to make a sustainable financial model based on a movie audience consisting solely of 12 year old boys.
Well, unfortunately 12-year-olds are getting older all the time. I dare somebody to unpack THAT one.
posted by JHarris at 5:51 PM on September 1, 2013
Well, Bunny, in an industry where nobody knows anything, everybody knows something. This is something I happened to have seen from the inside. And I am far enough away from Hollywood now, that I no longer have to keep silent. In Hollywood, everyone knows the people doing all the talking are full of crap, and the ones that really know, keep silent, because it's to their economic advantage that nobody else know what they're doing. Hollywood is a massive bullshit machine, powered by its own bullshit. I am sure this is known to you, and colors your attitudes.
I worked around the accountants and studio chiefs back in the 80s when money men took over the studios and the producers and directors lost most of their power and were no longer able to drive the industry. I remember when the direction of the industry changed. I worked a lot for Amblin, and MCA was building a luxury office block on the Universal backlot, just for Spielberg. The MCA VP told me Spielberg said he didn't need it and he didn't deserve it, so he said, "Stephen, you deserve it and I can afford it, this building cost me about one weekend of box office of ET in Uruguay." And this is pretty typical of the thinking of where the money went in the 80s, which was a watershed for Hollywood. They aren't concerned whether it will play in Peoria, they're making gut hunches about BO in Uruguay. And Spielberg really didn't need the offices, you ought to see his home. I've been there, It's got a screening room with a 70mm projector, and even a small "concession stand" with a theater-size popcorn maker.
Go look at any of the movies before the mid 80s, just the quality of production was vastly different. There was a sudden increase in the quality of camera equipment, higher production values for both film and sound, and the cost of production skyrocketed. Then when production started costing tens of millions, the back end went up too. It was a vicious circle. The studios started to focus on tentpoles and the entire studio system got spreadsheeted to death over worldwide BO. And they still made gut decisions that lost huge amounts of money.
So yeah, now we're supposed to be in the midst of a revolution in filmmaking. Digital tools were supposed to let everyone become a filmmaker, but it went exactly the opposite direction, concentrating the power needed to be a viable filmmaker. CG is especially killing the industry. I will tell you the exact moment the industry broke: the release of "The Last Starfighter" in 1984. I knew the guys at Digital Productions, they were struggling just to pay the electric bills for their Cray-1, they were making no money even though they were doing millions of dollars of work. The CG went massively over budget, and the producers almost didn't get the extra $2M to complete the CG work. The total $15M budget was a disaster, the film only recouped about $20M in BO, way below the 3x benchmark. The studios had a fit, and other emerging CG works got put on hold. But a year or so later, they ran the numbers again and discovered that the film was making a ton of money in VHS rental markets. It rapidly made far more money in rentals than it ever did in BO, I think that was the first time that ever happened. This was a revelation for the studio heads. Maybe it wasn't so bad to make big budget CG films.
And ever since then, it's been a production war. Every film has to exceed the production values of the previous one, which meant more and more investment in new CG technologies. It was an arms race. Even the cost of live shoots went up, because the live action had to be up to the quality of the CG or it would look horrible when composited. And you know the result. The VFX industry is bigger than ever, but it's going bankrupt. You ought to watch the blogs VFX Soldier and The Animation Guild IATSE 839 to get a closer look. At this point, CF and VFX production can't exist without subsidies. That's why a lot of post-production moved to Canada, and then production with it. The studios got used to paying almost nothing for VFX. The production houses are not sustainable without government subsidies. Now there is pushback, VFX Soldier is working on filing trade sanctions against foreign VFX companies that are government subsidized, which technically is a violation of free trade agreements. This will increase production costs, because they'll have to pay for the real cost of VFX. But it could stabilize the industry, stop the arms race in CG, and stop the escalation of blockbuster budgets.
And then there is the matter of the "small films" like This Is The End. That would have been a blockbuster budget back in the 80s. The budget for ET The Extraterrestrial was about $10M. Adjusted for inflation, that's $24.5M. TITE cost $32M. These are not small films. TITE had VFX in it too, I'd like to see the breakdown and see how much the VFX cost. Ultimately, it relies on the same old thing that Hollywood has always relied upon: spectacle. There is little difference between the vicarious thrills the audience gets from seeing King Kong trashing the towering skyscrapers, the playgrounds of the rich of NYC, and seeing rich fuck actors getting killed in the Hollywood Hills. And this is the eternal problem of spectacle. This is what film has always been best at, staging an expensive, monumental spectacle for the cameras, and capturing it so it could be sold profitably to a wide audience.
I remember when a new studio chief was appointed in the 1980s, I can't quite remember, I think it was MGM. They had a series of big budget flops, and the studio was struggling for profitability. They were making fewer but bigger films, so the schedule was erratic and cash flow could dry up between films, threatening to kill the studio. So the new guy came in and said he could start making more films, but smaller films that were profitable. He railed against the problems of spectacle, he even wrote an editorial in the LA Times that I never forgot. He talked about how films that relied on spectacle, would always need more and more spectacular things to keep the audience interested. They would become jaded. He compared it to the Roman Coliseum. At first you could have a couple of gladiators kill each other, great fun for everyone (except the gladiators). But the audiences demanded more and more spectacular events. Pretty soon they were flooding the Coliseum and enacting small naval battles, with hundreds of deaths. The studio chief said Hollywood would eventually succumb to this same problem. You could make Ben Hur back in in 1925, it cost four MILLION dollars, an insane amount of money, but it was a hit. Make it in 1959, it was fifteen MILLION dollars, an insane amount of money, even for a Technicolor extravaganza. But eventually, if the trend of spectaculars continued, it is likely that no amount of money would be enough to produce a film that would capture the audiences attention. You'd have to actually have real gladiatorial battles to the death, on film, and show real actors getting their heads cut off.
So the studio chief implemented his 3 year plan, hired some hot new directors, and signed some multi-picture deals. And the other studios released some big blockbusters, making big money (nobody wanted to look at the flops). The guy didn't last through his second year.
So that's pretty much it for Hollywood. We're at the point where every visible pixel the human eye can discern, can be created from pure imagination, manipulated with CG, and presented with digital projectors in 3D or even with increased frame rates beyond what is humanly perceptible. Any conceivable spectacle can be achieved and displayed. You can literally show worlds being destroyed and the audience will be bored to death, and did you see Melancholia? So there is no place left to go. Except story.
I used to hang out with a screenwriter who won an Oscar. He always seemed to have the inside scoop. One night after far too many drinks, told me that Hollywood will never die, because it's based on the oldest human drive, the one thing that separates us from animals: story telling. We transmit our knowledge to others through stories, and have always done so, ever since the Paleolithic era, when the first Homo Sapiens gathered around a campfire and Ogg told the tribe about killing the fearsome saber tooth tiger, and then took a burnt stick of charcoal out of the fire and scratched a picture on the cave wall.
That night as we were getting soused, I told him a stupid story (you know I always tell stupid stories). I was stunned when a few months later, he told me he wrote it up as a spec script and sold it for $60k, of course it's never going to be made but it's good money. Hey, goddammit, that was my idea, where's my cut? He laughed. Yes, Hollywood is truly out of ideas, if my stupid got story sold to a studio. Filmmaking has been dead since the 80s, they keep injecting more and more money into keeping it standing up on its own two feet, but it will fall over stone dead one of these days.
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:34 AM on September 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
I worked around the accountants and studio chiefs back in the 80s when money men took over the studios and the producers and directors lost most of their power and were no longer able to drive the industry. I remember when the direction of the industry changed. I worked a lot for Amblin, and MCA was building a luxury office block on the Universal backlot, just for Spielberg. The MCA VP told me Spielberg said he didn't need it and he didn't deserve it, so he said, "Stephen, you deserve it and I can afford it, this building cost me about one weekend of box office of ET in Uruguay." And this is pretty typical of the thinking of where the money went in the 80s, which was a watershed for Hollywood. They aren't concerned whether it will play in Peoria, they're making gut hunches about BO in Uruguay. And Spielberg really didn't need the offices, you ought to see his home. I've been there, It's got a screening room with a 70mm projector, and even a small "concession stand" with a theater-size popcorn maker.
Go look at any of the movies before the mid 80s, just the quality of production was vastly different. There was a sudden increase in the quality of camera equipment, higher production values for both film and sound, and the cost of production skyrocketed. Then when production started costing tens of millions, the back end went up too. It was a vicious circle. The studios started to focus on tentpoles and the entire studio system got spreadsheeted to death over worldwide BO. And they still made gut decisions that lost huge amounts of money.
So yeah, now we're supposed to be in the midst of a revolution in filmmaking. Digital tools were supposed to let everyone become a filmmaker, but it went exactly the opposite direction, concentrating the power needed to be a viable filmmaker. CG is especially killing the industry. I will tell you the exact moment the industry broke: the release of "The Last Starfighter" in 1984. I knew the guys at Digital Productions, they were struggling just to pay the electric bills for their Cray-1, they were making no money even though they were doing millions of dollars of work. The CG went massively over budget, and the producers almost didn't get the extra $2M to complete the CG work. The total $15M budget was a disaster, the film only recouped about $20M in BO, way below the 3x benchmark. The studios had a fit, and other emerging CG works got put on hold. But a year or so later, they ran the numbers again and discovered that the film was making a ton of money in VHS rental markets. It rapidly made far more money in rentals than it ever did in BO, I think that was the first time that ever happened. This was a revelation for the studio heads. Maybe it wasn't so bad to make big budget CG films.
And ever since then, it's been a production war. Every film has to exceed the production values of the previous one, which meant more and more investment in new CG technologies. It was an arms race. Even the cost of live shoots went up, because the live action had to be up to the quality of the CG or it would look horrible when composited. And you know the result. The VFX industry is bigger than ever, but it's going bankrupt. You ought to watch the blogs VFX Soldier and The Animation Guild IATSE 839 to get a closer look. At this point, CF and VFX production can't exist without subsidies. That's why a lot of post-production moved to Canada, and then production with it. The studios got used to paying almost nothing for VFX. The production houses are not sustainable without government subsidies. Now there is pushback, VFX Soldier is working on filing trade sanctions against foreign VFX companies that are government subsidized, which technically is a violation of free trade agreements. This will increase production costs, because they'll have to pay for the real cost of VFX. But it could stabilize the industry, stop the arms race in CG, and stop the escalation of blockbuster budgets.
And then there is the matter of the "small films" like This Is The End. That would have been a blockbuster budget back in the 80s. The budget for ET The Extraterrestrial was about $10M. Adjusted for inflation, that's $24.5M. TITE cost $32M. These are not small films. TITE had VFX in it too, I'd like to see the breakdown and see how much the VFX cost. Ultimately, it relies on the same old thing that Hollywood has always relied upon: spectacle. There is little difference between the vicarious thrills the audience gets from seeing King Kong trashing the towering skyscrapers, the playgrounds of the rich of NYC, and seeing rich fuck actors getting killed in the Hollywood Hills. And this is the eternal problem of spectacle. This is what film has always been best at, staging an expensive, monumental spectacle for the cameras, and capturing it so it could be sold profitably to a wide audience.
I remember when a new studio chief was appointed in the 1980s, I can't quite remember, I think it was MGM. They had a series of big budget flops, and the studio was struggling for profitability. They were making fewer but bigger films, so the schedule was erratic and cash flow could dry up between films, threatening to kill the studio. So the new guy came in and said he could start making more films, but smaller films that were profitable. He railed against the problems of spectacle, he even wrote an editorial in the LA Times that I never forgot. He talked about how films that relied on spectacle, would always need more and more spectacular things to keep the audience interested. They would become jaded. He compared it to the Roman Coliseum. At first you could have a couple of gladiators kill each other, great fun for everyone (except the gladiators). But the audiences demanded more and more spectacular events. Pretty soon they were flooding the Coliseum and enacting small naval battles, with hundreds of deaths. The studio chief said Hollywood would eventually succumb to this same problem. You could make Ben Hur back in in 1925, it cost four MILLION dollars, an insane amount of money, but it was a hit. Make it in 1959, it was fifteen MILLION dollars, an insane amount of money, even for a Technicolor extravaganza. But eventually, if the trend of spectaculars continued, it is likely that no amount of money would be enough to produce a film that would capture the audiences attention. You'd have to actually have real gladiatorial battles to the death, on film, and show real actors getting their heads cut off.
So the studio chief implemented his 3 year plan, hired some hot new directors, and signed some multi-picture deals. And the other studios released some big blockbusters, making big money (nobody wanted to look at the flops). The guy didn't last through his second year.
So that's pretty much it for Hollywood. We're at the point where every visible pixel the human eye can discern, can be created from pure imagination, manipulated with CG, and presented with digital projectors in 3D or even with increased frame rates beyond what is humanly perceptible. Any conceivable spectacle can be achieved and displayed. You can literally show worlds being destroyed and the audience will be bored to death, and did you see Melancholia? So there is no place left to go. Except story.
I used to hang out with a screenwriter who won an Oscar. He always seemed to have the inside scoop. One night after far too many drinks, told me that Hollywood will never die, because it's based on the oldest human drive, the one thing that separates us from animals: story telling. We transmit our knowledge to others through stories, and have always done so, ever since the Paleolithic era, when the first Homo Sapiens gathered around a campfire and Ogg told the tribe about killing the fearsome saber tooth tiger, and then took a burnt stick of charcoal out of the fire and scratched a picture on the cave wall.
That night as we were getting soused, I told him a stupid story (you know I always tell stupid stories). I was stunned when a few months later, he told me he wrote it up as a spec script and sold it for $60k, of course it's never going to be made but it's good money. Hey, goddammit, that was my idea, where's my cut? He laughed. Yes, Hollywood is truly out of ideas, if my stupid got story sold to a studio. Filmmaking has been dead since the 80s, they keep injecting more and more money into keeping it standing up on its own two feet, but it will fall over stone dead one of these days.
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:34 AM on September 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well, Bunny, in an industry where nobody knows anything, everybody knows something. This is something I happened to have seen from the inside.
As relates to the subject at hand and your specific claims relating to it?
And I am far enough away from Hollywood now, that I no longer have to keep silent. In Hollywood, everyone knows the people doing all the talking are full of crap, and the ones that really know, keep silent, because it's to their economic advantage that nobody else know what they're doing. Hollywood is a massive bullshit machine, powered by its own bullshit. I am sure this is known to you, and colors your attitudes.
Guess not.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on September 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
As relates to the subject at hand and your specific claims relating to it?
And I am far enough away from Hollywood now, that I no longer have to keep silent. In Hollywood, everyone knows the people doing all the talking are full of crap, and the ones that really know, keep silent, because it's to their economic advantage that nobody else know what they're doing. Hollywood is a massive bullshit machine, powered by its own bullshit. I am sure this is known to you, and colors your attitudes.
Guess not.
posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on September 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
Filmmaking has been dead since the 80s, they keep injecting more and more money into keeping it standing up on its own two feet, but it will fall over stone dead one of these days.
Charlie, what I am not getting is who is injecting this money? Where is it coming from? Because other than the box office return, DVD sales, and cable licensing fees, I don't see where this "injected money" is coming from. First you're telling us that a movie that brings in 3x its published production cost isn't really profitable because it's somehow fairy money or whatever, then you're telling us that some misguided force is pumping money into this bloated and corrupt system to keep it afloat for whatevs reasons. Well, it can't be both, so which is it, and if money is being pumped into the studios to keep them standing where is it coming from and why?
posted by localroger at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2013
Charlie, what I am not getting is who is injecting this money? Where is it coming from? Because other than the box office return, DVD sales, and cable licensing fees, I don't see where this "injected money" is coming from. First you're telling us that a movie that brings in 3x its published production cost isn't really profitable because it's somehow fairy money or whatever, then you're telling us that some misguided force is pumping money into this bloated and corrupt system to keep it afloat for whatevs reasons. Well, it can't be both, so which is it, and if money is being pumped into the studios to keep them standing where is it coming from and why?
posted by localroger at 10:55 AM on September 2, 2013
And why is this likely to be the case in the case of this particular movie? And if it is the case because it is the case for ALL movies then why single out this particular one?
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on September 2, 2013
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on September 2, 2013
The big money is coming from Wall Street. Movies and studios are now being financed by bonds. Disney was one of the pioneers of studio bonds, now they're going all in. Even private investors in single pictures often create bonds, even if they're not official financial products in the sense that the SEC regulates them.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:43 AM on September 2, 2013
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:43 AM on September 2, 2013
Well charlie that would lead to the next question, which is why would anybody buy a bond backed by anything so shaky, and if the money isn't there from actual profits to pay the bond holders why would anybody have bought bonds for the second movie production company to do this?
posted by localroger at 12:45 PM on September 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by localroger at 12:45 PM on September 2, 2013 [1 favorite]
They invest for the same reason why anyone would buy a high risk bond: Greed. They have more money than they know what to do with, so they take a long shot at a high payoff.
But the system is rigged. They dangle some easy profits in front of you, and then once you're hooked, they reel you in.
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:17 PM on September 2, 2013
But the system is rigged. They dangle some easy profits in front of you, and then once you're hooked, they reel you in.
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:17 PM on September 2, 2013
Okay charlie I have to admit that is pretty screwed up. I'd guess if you think they will end up defaulting on those bonds that it's believable the whole house of cards could come down.
posted by localroger at 2:07 PM on September 2, 2013
posted by localroger at 2:07 PM on September 2, 2013
Fifty Shades of Grey comes out in just under a year. The cast is still unannounced.
Oh god, they announced the lead roles. Charlie Hunnam is the male lead. No, Jax! Don't do it! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
posted by Justinian at 3:42 PM on September 2, 2013
Oh god, they announced the lead roles. Charlie Hunnam is the male lead. No, Jax! Don't do it! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
posted by Justinian at 3:42 PM on September 2, 2013
I assume he will dye his hair.
I can't believe anyone could take a novel where the protagonist's name is "Anastasia Steele" seriously. Jesus, it's like naming your rugged adventurer "Dirk Pitt" or something. Oh...
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on September 2, 2013
I can't believe anyone could take a novel where the protagonist's name is "Anastasia Steele" seriously. Jesus, it's like naming your rugged adventurer "Dirk Pitt" or something. Oh...
posted by Justinian at 4:48 PM on September 2, 2013
I read the first one, for some definition of read, but I remember the blonde thing from the Jenny Trout recaps.
posted by jeather at 5:09 PM on September 2, 2013
posted by jeather at 5:09 PM on September 2, 2013
That's all right I'm sure the budget for CGI hair dye won't run more than $50 million or so.
posted by localroger at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2013
posted by localroger at 5:33 PM on September 2, 2013
What, they're not just going to get the Twilight actors?
posted by JHarris at 6:25 PM on September 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 6:25 PM on September 2, 2013 [2 favorites]
They invest for the same reason why anyone would buy a high risk bond: Greed. They have more money than they know what to do with, so they take a long shot at a high payoff.
That would work on rubes, but serious investors are something I don't think the Hollywood accounting system can long survive. I wouldn't doubt it if, soon after some Wall Street type earns $0.00 on a popular blockbuster, Congress didn't "mysteriously" start looking into the whole matter.
posted by JHarris at 6:27 PM on September 2, 2013
That would work on rubes, but serious investors are something I don't think the Hollywood accounting system can long survive. I wouldn't doubt it if, soon after some Wall Street type earns $0.00 on a popular blockbuster, Congress didn't "mysteriously" start looking into the whole matter.
posted by JHarris at 6:27 PM on September 2, 2013
What, you didn't make enough ROI on Silver Screen Partners III? We'll get you in on the ground floor on Silver Screen Partners IV. It can't fail, we have George W. Bush on the Board of Directors! He's bringing in the Texas oil money! They don't know squat about movies, we'll take them to the cleaners. Oops, you didn't hear that. I assure you, your investment will have a high return, we signed Kathleen Turner to star in V. I. Warshawski. Nevermind that the budget was $24M and it only took in $11M, we have her signed for 2 sequels!
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:07 PM on September 2, 2013
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:07 PM on September 2, 2013
I can't believe anyone could take a novel where the protagonist's name is "Anastasia Steele" seriously. Jesus, it's like naming your rugged adventurer "Dirk Pitt" or something. Oh...
Cormoran fucking Strike
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:23 PM on September 2, 2013
Cormoran fucking Strike
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 9:23 PM on September 2, 2013
I remember when a new studio chief was appointed in the 1980s, I can't quite remember, I think it was MGM.
I think you're thinking of David Puttnam at Columbia. In addition to the rude comments about Hollywood, he was British (he'd produced Chariots of Fire, of "The British are Coming" Oscar slogan fame), so even if he'd been the greatest producer in the world (and his previous track record actually had been pretty good), there were many people who were enthusiastically going to see to it that he failed. Which he did, and the company was sold to Sony.
posted by Grangousier at 1:40 AM on September 3, 2013
I think you're thinking of David Puttnam at Columbia. In addition to the rude comments about Hollywood, he was British (he'd produced Chariots of Fire, of "The British are Coming" Oscar slogan fame), so even if he'd been the greatest producer in the world (and his previous track record actually had been pretty good), there were many people who were enthusiastically going to see to it that he failed. Which he did, and the company was sold to Sony.
posted by Grangousier at 1:40 AM on September 3, 2013
Yes, I believe you are right, it was Putnam. That sounds familiar.
Putnam should have succeeded, but he probably knew he was doomed from the start. That is what I hated most about Hollywood, the backstabbing and the attitude that everyone has to fail for you to succeed. I remember the LAWeekly once said the most distinctive feature of Hollywood is that you have absolute contempt for everyone that your livelihood depends on.
posted by charlie don't surf at 4:52 AM on September 3, 2013
Putnam should have succeeded, but he probably knew he was doomed from the start. That is what I hated most about Hollywood, the backstabbing and the attitude that everyone has to fail for you to succeed. I remember the LAWeekly once said the most distinctive feature of Hollywood is that you have absolute contempt for everyone that your livelihood depends on.
posted by charlie don't surf at 4:52 AM on September 3, 2013
This Is The End and the promise of personal blockbusters
posted by octothorpe at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:32 AM on September 3, 2013 [2 favorites]
George Clooney hangs a photo of himself as Batman, as a warning
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on September 3, 2013 [1 favorite]
The decision, officially announced on Monday, Sept. 2, was met with instant criticism from fans for casting relative newcomers.
Fifty Shades of Grey, its hour come round at last, slouches toward a theatre near you.
posted by localroger at 6:27 PM on September 3, 2013
Fifty Shades of Grey, its hour come round at last, slouches toward a theatre near you.
posted by localroger at 6:27 PM on September 3, 2013
How dare they cast relative newcomers! Why didn't they cast one of the no-doubt horde of Oscar winning A-listers stretched a mile long hoping to be cast in a shitty adaptation of a terrible piece of Twilight S&M porn fanfic.
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on September 3, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:12 PM on September 3, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh god, they announced the lead roles. Charlie Hunnam is the male lead. No, Jax! Don't do it! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Damn it! I was really hoping for Ben Affleck.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:37 PM on September 4, 2013
Damn it! I was really hoping for Ben Affleck.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:37 PM on September 4, 2013
I can't believe anyone could take a novel where the protagonist's name is "Anastasia Steele" seriously
Cormoran fucking Strike
I'll see you, and raise you one Katniss Everdeen.
posted by ShutterBun at 2:57 AM on September 6, 2013
Cormoran fucking Strike
I'll see you, and raise you one Katniss Everdeen.
posted by ShutterBun at 2:57 AM on September 6, 2013
It's a perfectly decent mix of a botanical first name (like Rose or Violet) with an Irish last name. It's also a perfect Mary Sue name, but, then, so is Wolf Blitzer.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:39 AM on September 6, 2013
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:39 AM on September 6, 2013
Is it Irish? I'm seeing English/Anglo-Saxon.
Anyway, Wolf Blitzer is totally my Marty Stu main character in my Blood Bowl fanfic.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 11:08 AM on September 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Anyway, Wolf Blitzer is totally my Marty Stu main character in my Blood Bowl fanfic.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 11:08 AM on September 6, 2013 [1 favorite]
Huh, I guess it is Anglo-Saxon. I must have assumed it was Irish because it's the name of Cameron Diaz's terrible character in Gangs of New York.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:21 PM on September 6, 2013
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:21 PM on September 6, 2013
I still don't think you can beat Dirk Pitt... well until I finish my Bastard Sword Shaft thriller
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2013
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:26 PM on September 6, 2013
it's the name of Cameron Diaz's terrible character in Gangs of New York
I somehow managed to forget she was even in that movie.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:50 PM on September 6, 2013
I somehow managed to forget she was even in that movie.
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:50 PM on September 6, 2013
“Star Trek” writer unleashes Khan-like wrath on Trekkies
posted by octothorpe at 2:06 PM on September 7, 2013
posted by octothorpe at 2:06 PM on September 7, 2013
LOL. As a writer I can sympathies, but there's a reason I no longer post on fan forums of publications I now wrote for.
Also the script for Into Darkness was an incoherent pile of shit and he can cry himself to sleep on his pile of money.
posted by Artw at 2:18 PM on September 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
Also the script for Into Darkness was an incoherent pile of shit and he can cry himself to sleep on his pile of money.
posted by Artw at 2:18 PM on September 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
Responding to criticism is never ever going to be a good idea
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:48 AM on September 8, 2013
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:48 AM on September 8, 2013
It sounds like Mr. Orci, like many people on the Internet, was responding to how the comments on that post made him feel, rather than the content of the comments themselves. That never ends well.
posted by Kevin Street at 10:30 AM on September 8, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 10:30 AM on September 8, 2013
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