Your Annual Fantasy Football Post
September 5, 2013 7:41 AM Subscribe
Fantasy football is back, and this year brings with it the rise of Fantasy Football Insurance. Marketplace explains.
In local news, it looks like most groups for metafilter FF are full, but the Pick 'em group is still open. If you're not in a league, hurry because games start tonight!
In local news, it looks like most groups for metafilter FF are full, but the Pick 'em group is still open. If you're not in a league, hurry because games start tonight!
I'm pretty sure this is for people who are spending over $100 to get a place in a league.
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:52 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:52 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
that's pretty genius. No idea how you underwrite it tho to stay solvent.
Its pretty common for guys to lay off risk in high price pick'em pools and what not. Why not fantasy?
posted by JPD at 7:58 AM on September 5, 2013
Its pretty common for guys to lay off risk in high price pick'em pools and what not. Why not fantasy?
posted by JPD at 7:58 AM on September 5, 2013
Whenever I hear the term "Fantasy Football", I think of Blood Bowl. It's always a letdown when I realize that you're not talking about orcs vs. humans.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Doesn't insurance exist to help people mitigate the costs unavoidable risks like fires or car crashes? You lose a little money on average to avoid the huge costs associated with a low-probability outcome? Is there any reason why using fantasy football insurance would give a better expected outcome than just playing in a league with a smaller fee? Is this insurance set up in some weird, arbitrage creating way that lets you bet for and against your players and turn a profit no matter what?
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013
Isn't it just a way to bet on a player becoming injured? I think the insurance is a screen for sports betting.
posted by chrchr at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013
posted by chrchr at 8:02 AM on September 5, 2013
So people are willing to pay money to reduce their risk of losing money on a thing you can do for free. I do not get people sometimes, I really don't.
Part of the appeal of fantasy football is the gambling aspect of it. So, yeah, you could gamble on something "for free" but that's not why a lot of people do it.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:03 AM on September 5, 2013
Part of the appeal of fantasy football is the gambling aspect of it. So, yeah, you could gamble on something "for free" but that's not why a lot of people do it.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:03 AM on September 5, 2013
Fantasy football is basically just D&D with football players, correct?
posted by elizardbits at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Oh, and gambling obvsly.
posted by elizardbits at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013
posted by elizardbits at 8:06 AM on September 5, 2013
Isn't it just a way to bet on a player becoming injured? I think the insurance is a screen for sports betting.
Y'all know these are tournaments, and therefore not gambling, right?
It works like this: I pay $100 to enter into the contest. So do 29 other people. Whoever wins the fantasy league gets the $3000 (minus some administrative fee, probably). Under US law, this isn't gambling. It's more like a soccer tournament.
posted by Netzapper at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2013
Y'all know these are tournaments, and therefore not gambling, right?
It works like this: I pay $100 to enter into the contest. So do 29 other people. Whoever wins the fantasy league gets the $3000 (minus some administrative fee, probably). Under US law, this isn't gambling. It's more like a soccer tournament.
posted by Netzapper at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2013
Orcs versus humans? Bah. Not one bottle of beer on the field.
Greenfield Grasshuggers represent!
posted by Flunkie at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Greenfield Grasshuggers represent!
posted by Flunkie at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
You play in a league with 30 teams? Lord have mercy.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:09 AM on September 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
It's always a letdown when I realize that you're not talking about orcs vs. humans.
Really, isn't fantasy football just an RPG for people who prefer watching games to playing them?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:10 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Really, isn't fantasy football just an RPG for people who prefer watching games to playing them?
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:10 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
martinX's bellbottoms: Is there any reason why using fantasy football insurance would give a better expected outcome than just playing in a league with a smaller fee?
If you are in a league every year with all your buddies and are having fun doing it, you may not want to switch to a different league. A lot of (most?) fantasy football where you are paying to get into the league is a social activity amongst already existent groups (friends/classmates/colleagues/family/etc), not just random online strangers.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:11 AM on September 5, 2013
If you are in a league every year with all your buddies and are having fun doing it, you may not want to switch to a different league. A lot of (most?) fantasy football where you are paying to get into the league is a social activity amongst already existent groups (friends/classmates/colleagues/family/etc), not just random online strangers.
posted by Rock Steady at 8:11 AM on September 5, 2013
Fantasy football is basically just D&D with football players, correct?Unless you mean in the sense that Monopoly is basically just Risk set in Atlantic City, no. They're very different.
posted by Flunkie at 8:11 AM on September 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Step 1 - Don't pay any money to join a fantasy sports league
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
posted by Daddy-O at 8:40 AM on September 5, 2013
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
posted by Daddy-O at 8:40 AM on September 5, 2013
So people are willing to pay money to reduce their risk of losing money on a thing you can do for free. I do not get people sometimes, I really don't.
Part of the appeal of fantasy football is the gambling aspect of it. So, yeah, you could gamble on something "for free" but that's not why a lot of people do it.
No, I get the gambling part -- some people are more risk-loving, and lord knows there are plenty of people who get literally high from gambling. I just don't get the part where you pay money to reduce the risk of your gambling. When you approach gambling like a business and know that your risks are reduced, doesn't it also reduce the high?
posted by Etrigan at 8:46 AM on September 5, 2013
Part of the appeal of fantasy football is the gambling aspect of it. So, yeah, you could gamble on something "for free" but that's not why a lot of people do it.
No, I get the gambling part -- some people are more risk-loving, and lord knows there are plenty of people who get literally high from gambling. I just don't get the part where you pay money to reduce the risk of your gambling. When you approach gambling like a business and know that your risks are reduced, doesn't it also reduce the high?
posted by Etrigan at 8:46 AM on September 5, 2013
Step 1 - Don't pay any money to join a fantasy sports league
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
Now that basically is gambling.
I think a large part of this plays in to the psychology of fantasy football players. Everyone has had their season "ruined" when they're top player goes down, so this seems like a sensible investment. However they have to miss over half the season, and many times the injury is remembered as much worse than it was because it "lost" your team the season. I think it's pretty common that a star player sprains something and plays poorly for a few games til he's better, but it's pretty rare for a guy to actually miss 9 games. I'm sure they're making money on that discrepancy.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:48 AM on September 5, 2013
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
Now that basically is gambling.
I think a large part of this plays in to the psychology of fantasy football players. Everyone has had their season "ruined" when they're top player goes down, so this seems like a sensible investment. However they have to miss over half the season, and many times the injury is remembered as much worse than it was because it "lost" your team the season. I think it's pretty common that a star player sprains something and plays poorly for a few games til he's better, but it's pretty rare for a guy to actually miss 9 games. I'm sure they're making money on that discrepancy.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:48 AM on September 5, 2013
I just don't get the part where you pay money to reduce the risk of your gambling.
In the course of history, I'm sure the first hedge didn't follow too far after the first bet.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:51 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
In the course of history, I'm sure the first hedge didn't follow too far after the first bet.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 8:51 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Etrigan: I just don't get the part where you pay money to reduce the risk of your gambling. When you approach gambling like a business and know that your risks are reduced, doesn't it also reduce the high?
Like (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates says, hedging is an important part of almost all gambling, but especially sports betting.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:12 AM on September 5, 2013
Like (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates says, hedging is an important part of almost all gambling, but especially sports betting.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:12 AM on September 5, 2013
Daddy-O: Step 1 - Don't pay any money to join a fantasy sports league
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
From the FAQ:
Coverage of up to $1,000 is available for purchase online. The FantasyPlayerProtect policy covers the value of your team made up of the following costs:
- League entry fees
- Ancillary expenses up to $250 for items such as the costs of magazine or online subscriptions you may incur for the purpose of maximizing the value of your fantasy team
posted by Rock Steady at 9:14 AM on September 5, 2013
Step 2 - Buy insurance on a player you believe is likely to be injured in the coming season
Step 3 - Profit! (maybe)
From the FAQ:
Coverage of up to $1,000 is available for purchase online. The FantasyPlayerProtect policy covers the value of your team made up of the following costs:
- League entry fees
- Ancillary expenses up to $250 for items such as the costs of magazine or online subscriptions you may incur for the purpose of maximizing the value of your fantasy team
posted by Rock Steady at 9:14 AM on September 5, 2013
I understand the underpinnings of all of this, and I guess I can conceive of players who would take advantage of it if they're in big money leagues, but... the math behind this is bewildering to me. You can sort of get a view into it by playing with their rate check page--move around between players and you'll see a big movement in prices for policies. But the prices (which are theoretically independent of the value the player provides to your fantasy team--by buying the policy, you are tacitly admitting "this player is the lynchpin of my team, and as his health fails so does my team") are wildly out of sync with actual player injury risk. Michael Vick, for instance, is the cheapest policy you can buy, of the ~30 guys I checked--cheaper than players who have never missed a game in their time in the NFL. Kenny Britt and RGIII are both cheaper than Aaron Rodgers. (For the less-obsessive fans: Michael Vick has never made it through a season without missing at least a handful of games due to injury, Kenny Britt missed the entire 2011 season with a torn ACL, and Robert Griffin III is playing on a destroyed knee and borrowed time, while Aaron Rodgers has missed two games in five years)
The fact that their actuarial tables are so arbitrary actually leads me to question the wisdom of giving these guys any of your money, far more so than the weird premise of the insurance in the first place.
posted by Mayor West at 10:36 AM on September 5, 2013
The fact that their actuarial tables are so arbitrary actually leads me to question the wisdom of giving these guys any of your money, far more so than the weird premise of the insurance in the first place.
posted by Mayor West at 10:36 AM on September 5, 2013
Hey whoa now.
Robert Griffin III is gonna be great this year.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:54 AM on September 5, 2013
Robert Griffin III is gonna be great this year.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:54 AM on September 5, 2013
It's always a letdown when I realize that you're not talking about orcs vs. humans
"Son, you have a great future ahead of you in this game. [chop] Unfortunately, it's as the ball."
posted by MartinWisse at 11:34 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
"Son, you have a great future ahead of you in this game. [chop] Unfortunately, it's as the ball."
posted by MartinWisse at 11:34 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mayor West: the math behind this is bewildering to me. You can sort of get a view into it by playing with their rate check page--move around between players and you'll see a big movement in prices for policies. But the prices (which are theoretically independent of the value the player provides to your fantasy team--by buying the policy, you are tacitly admitting "this player is the lynchpin of my team, and as his health fails so does my team") are wildly out of sync with actual player injury risk.
That is strange, but I guess they must have to have a system whereby the more policies they plan to write for a given player, the more they will have to charge, as they will have more claims to pay should he get hurt. In that way their price would be linked to their performance, as more policies are going to be written for the top performers.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:08 PM on September 5, 2013
That is strange, but I guess they must have to have a system whereby the more policies they plan to write for a given player, the more they will have to charge, as they will have more claims to pay should he get hurt. In that way their price would be linked to their performance, as more policies are going to be written for the top performers.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:08 PM on September 5, 2013
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posted by Etrigan at 7:49 AM on September 5, 2013 [1 favorite]