Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductees Announced, Lynyrd Skynyrd denied entrance for the 4th straight year.

December 17, 2001 4:50 PM

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Inductees Announced, Lynyrd Skynyrd denied entrance for the 4th straight year. Now, I realize Skynyrd has become every critics mullet-rock whipping boy, but how they can be kept out when not only Aerosmith, but Billy Joel have been inducted is beyond me. Along with the Allman Brothers they invented the genre of southern rock, they introduced the twin-lead-guitar configuration to rock, and penned some undeniably classic songs. Chalk it up to some critics anti-southern bias is all I can guess
posted by jonmc (71 comments total)

Are you implying that Billy Joel doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame? As a life long Long Islander, and as an indie rocker, I was always embarassed by Billy Joel and actively disliked every single one of his songs. Only recently have I come to realize that his songs are GOOD (his older ones, anyway).
posted by skwm at 4:55 PM on December 17, 2001

i agree with your post, however i refuse to acknowledge the Hall until AC/DC gets in.
posted by tsarfan at 5:04 PM on December 17, 2001

if Billy Joel is an influential force on rock'n'roll, then by god so is Lynyrd Skynyrd!
posted by mcsweetie at 5:08 PM on December 17, 2001

As much as I can't stand Skynard, you'd think that "Sweet Home Alabama" alone would be enough to get them in. Not to mention "Free Bird." I mean, when was the last time you went to a concert--any concert--where some drunken dipstick did't decide it'd be really funny to yell out Free Bird? Shouldn't they get in for that? The Free Bird Clause?

I can't stand Skynard (particularly because I'm from Alabama and they reinforce every negative stereotype about the South), but I can't tand the Hall either. They both seem big and dumb enough for each other.
posted by emptyage at 5:10 PM on December 17, 2001

Damn I was rooting for AC/DC too. Lynyrd Skynyrd deserve to be in there too, if only because they wrote Freebird.

Not a big of Ramones, but any band that sang the Spiderman theme song and gets into the Rock 'N' Roll Hall Of Fame is good sign.
posted by riffola at 5:13 PM on December 17, 2001

I mean, when was the last time you went to a concert--any concert--where some drunken dipstick did't decide it'd be really funny to yell out Free Bird?

One time at a Built To Spill show, some guy yelled out "FREEBIRD!" and they actually started playing it! needless to say, I exploded into a couple dozen pieces, most of which were never found.
posted by mcsweetie at 5:14 PM on December 17, 2001

they reinforce every negative stereotype about the South...

How? by writing an anti-gun song("Saturday Night Special") or an anti-racism song("Ballad of Curtis Lowe")?
Some of Skynyrd's fans may fall under the redneck stereotype but Ronnie Van Zant himself was all about creating a new yet still southern style.

mcsweetie-I saw the same thing at an Indigo Girls show...things become cliche's for a reason.
posted by jonmc at 5:18 PM on December 17, 2001

Is that AC/DC with or without Bon Scott...or does it matter? Hrm.
posted by suprfli at 5:35 PM on December 17, 2001

McSweetie, they did that at the last BTS show I went to. Nobody even asked for it. I was suprised how many people knew what it was.

We can either thank K-TEL or their parents I suppose.
posted by perplexed at 5:43 PM on December 17, 2001

One time at a Built To Spill show, some guy yelled out "FREEBIRD!" and they actually started playing it! needless to say, I exploded into a couple dozen pieces, most of which were never found.

This happened at a metallica show I went to. Cracked me up.
posted by juv3nal at 6:01 PM on December 17, 2001

what aspiring rock guitarist hasn't sat in his or her room working until they've mastered that guitar solo?
posted by rebeccablood at 6:05 PM on December 17, 2001

Southern rock had become the national rage. But three years later, around the time that Skynyrd’s plane crashed, the movement was eclipsed by disco and the first rumblings of punk. Lengthy guitar solos and earnest lyrics were out; short songs with ambiguous meanings were in. Where the Allmans had expressed sadness and Skynyrd anger, R.E.M., a five-piece [sic] band from the college town of Athens, Ga., took a wildly different approach to their cultural heritage.

A friend of mine has this great theory that REM is, in fact, Lynyrd Skynyrd. The theory begins by drawing the fabulously long bow between the Skynyrd plane crash in Georgia, and the subsequent emergence of REM... Could the ghost of Ronnie van Zant live on in Michael Stipe?

No? Oh well. Nice to see Chris Blackwell getting a Hall o' Fame guernsey, though.
posted by blue at 6:08 PM on December 17, 2001

blue - in a weird sort of way...yes, and Michael Stipe would probably agree. Pete Buck as well.
posted by jonmc at 6:10 PM on December 17, 2001

...and definitely in Bill Berry's eyebrows
posted by blue at 6:22 PM on December 17, 2001

ok ok ok, so yeah, the hall is worthless, morally bankrupt, a self-congratulation society/ puppet show run by the big money boys. Its credibility as a cultural arbiter or institution has been repeatedly stretched beyond the breaking point. But its like that other sacred cow of the music world, the cover of Rolling Stone. You know in your heart that getting there has nothing to do with talent or importance or anything beyond the whims and greasy schemes of the industry. But against all reason, it still means something ...

As glad as I am that The Ramones and The Talking Heads got the nod, I know that it comes at the expense of Patti, Television, Johnny Thunders, all seminal musicians that the industry has no intention of bringing out of the ghetto. Well, maybe Patti, if she keeps sniffing like a stray at the door like she has been for the past few years.

And the sound of The Talking Heads is evident in the music of RHCP? Did I miss something?

I'd love to see Gram Parsons get in, and he probably will 'cause he's nice and safe and dead. Meanwhile living legends like Steve Earle who continued Gram's work will be ignored.

And yeah, Skynyrd should get their due. They're not my personal faves, but I'd rather see a hard-working true-to-their-roots rocknroll band get the nod than many of the hacks who surely will in years to come.
posted by hipstertrash at 6:30 PM on December 17, 2001

I gotta agree.

damn first song I learned on guitar was Sweet Home Alabama. I don't know too much of their catalog but I thought they always kinda reveled in their redneckness. And I personally respect that.


P.S.
Gotta say since Back in Black is post Bon Scott AC/DC gets in with both singers
posted by bitdamaged at 6:31 PM on December 17, 2001

Let's see, Indigo Girls, Built to Spill, R.E.M., Metallica...
maybe all these indie-rockers are closet mulletheads...beautiful, I say embrace the buttrocker within...drag out those lighters and put on some Humble Pie...as a very wise man once said,it's all good.
posted by jonmc at 6:32 PM on December 17, 2001

Neil Young gets the last laugh one more time...
posted by machaus at 6:33 PM on December 17, 2001

I'm born and raised in New York, and "Sweet Home Alabama" was the first song I ever played in my high school rock band. Skynyrd belongs in th Hall of Fame, no question.

Also, Billy Joel is a master songwriter. Give credit where credit's due...
posted by Ty Webb at 6:41 PM on December 17, 2001

what aspiring rock guitarist hasn't sat in his or her room working until they've mastered that guitar solo?

You've mastered that... Man, I suck. Gary Rossington is right up there with Ritchie Blackmore on the list of un-sung guitar heroes.

Anyway, it is a slight. No doubt about it... As for them being rednecks. I think that if you asked them at the time, as well as most of the surviving members, they would agree with you whole-heartedly. Despite whatever we say here, or what they do at the Hall of Fame, they have done pretty well for themselves:

"MCA Records estimates that Skynyrd has sold over 30 million records over the past twenty-five years. Skynyrd is MCA's number one catalog artist -- out-selling every other catalog artist on their roster including The Who. According to BMI, 'Freebird' has been played on the radio more than 2 million times and the song remains near the top of all radio surveys." (FAQ)
posted by Dean_Paxton at 6:57 PM on December 17, 2001

The southern rock band "Dash Rip Rock" does a great song where they combine two "classic" rock songs into one:

"Stairway to Freebird"

A quick google search shows that this is a common practice. Hmmmm.
posted by ColdChef at 6:59 PM on December 17, 2001

I don't think there is such a thing as a Waffle House jukebox without Free Bird on it.

And I guarantee if you took it off that the jukebox profits would be cut in half, the other half belonging to Patsy Cline.

At least on 3rd shift.......
posted by bunnyfire at 7:09 PM on December 17, 2001

what is the deal with Patsy Cline in diner jukeboxes? Is she the patron saint of flapjacks?
posted by machaus at 7:22 PM on December 17, 2001

...the other half belonging to Patsy Cline

I'd probably make it a three-way split, at least where I live, with Guns n Roses' "Sweet Child o' Mine". Whenever I hear that song I'm like Pavlov's dog, I start salivating for burgers and fries.
posted by blue at 7:31 PM on December 17, 2001

Hey, don't forget the "Waffle House Theme Song." I play it every time I go into Waffle House, except at this one where all the records in the jukebox are too melted to listen to. It definitely does not belong in the Hall of Fame, at least the Rock and Roll one.
posted by donkeymon at 7:34 PM on December 17, 2001

Happy Waffle House Christmas everybody!
posted by spilon at 7:40 PM on December 17, 2001

This CD is also available in the Atlanta area exclusively at EAT MORE RECORDS, 1210 ROCKBRIDGE RD NW, STONE MOUNTAIN, GA

Judas Priest! Eat More Records? What kind of monstrous place is this? And do they stock any Skynyrd?
posted by blue at 7:46 PM on December 17, 2001

Ty Webb -
Billy Joel is a very good songwriter and performer...but the hall is for the truly great, the innovators...most of this years inductees qualify...but so do skynyrd dammit...FREEBIRD! get them lighters out....
posted by jonmc at 7:47 PM on December 17, 2001

The only time I've heard freebird actually performed in concert was by a local ska band that is known for doing very sarcastic covers of bad overplayed music. During the same concert, they also did five variations on the theme "YMCA". And covered all of the major Duran-Duran hits in just under 60 seconds. Quite thankfully, the rest of the band segued into something else preventing the lead singer from finishing the first verse.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:16 PM on December 17, 2001

let me give you a hint.

DO NOT under any circumstances play the Waffle House Song (or any of the other waffle house songs) on that jukebox unless you truly despise every employee in the place.

They hate it.

And trust me. You don't want to get a waffle house waitress mad.....
posted by bunnyfire at 8:29 PM on December 17, 2001

Since there are apparently some fans here, could someone explain Sweet Home Alabama to me, it sounds like a pro-segregation song. Am I completely not getting it?
posted by chrismc at 8:31 PM on December 17, 2001

chrismc-It's not pro-segregregation at all..it was written as a semi-joke response to Neil Young's "Southern Man" which Ronnie Van Zant felt unfairly stereotyped southerners. The references to Governor George Wallace were kind of in a "what can you do type of vein. Van Zant was actually anti-racist as "Ballad of Curtis Lowe"makes very clear. As terrific as the "Sweet Home Alabama" is musically, misinterpretations of that songs lyrics may be the reason Skynyrd has never recieved it's due from the rock intelligentsia.
posted by jonmc at 8:38 PM on December 17, 2001

While waiting Skynyrd's turn to enter the Hall of Fame, take a photographic tour of every building in Jacksonville associated with the band.
posted by liam at 8:43 PM on December 17, 2001

they introduced the twin-lead-guitar configuration to rock

Hardly. Ever hear of the Yardbirds? Or *kaff* Wishbone Ash?
posted by rodii at 8:46 PM on December 17, 2001

thanks jonmc for that info.
posted by chrismc at 8:48 PM on December 17, 2001

rodii-touche...you're right even if the Yardbirds only had Beck and Page together breifly...but Skynyrd definitely had the first three-lead-guitars-at-once configuration once Steve Gaines joined up...I was going to say only but then I remembered Molly Hatchet. And Wishbone Ash were OK but they never utilized the setup as well as Skynyrd did.
posted by jonmc at 8:51 PM on December 17, 2001

In Birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

Commonly misunderstood, these lyrics are hazy but, not difficult to interpret.

jonmc is completely correct.

Wallace himself repented for his actions in those days: "He was more readily forgiven by the Alabama blacks who knew the imprint of his heel than by Northern whites."
posted by Dean_Paxton at 8:51 PM on December 17, 2001

chrismc-if you've never heard "Curtis Lowe", do so ASAP..as well as clearing up Ronnie Van Zant's views on race, it's a terrific peice of rock and roll.
posted by jonmc at 8:52 PM on December 17, 2001

Well, if it's three-guitar lineups you want, I think Black Oak Arkansas has Skynrd beat by a couple years (1971). And let's not forget Moby Grape, four years before that (1967). And Paul Butterfield had a two-lead-guitar lineup two years before that (1965).
posted by rodii at 9:11 PM on December 17, 2001

"what is the deal with Patsy Cline in diner jukeboxes? Is she the patron saint of flapjacks?"

Well, now that you mention it:


posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:22 PM on December 17, 2001

rodii-
I thought I was the ultimate rock and roll mind on MeFi...but I bow before you...as good as Gary Rossington and Allen Collins were, Mike Bloomfield and Elvin Bishop definetly have them beat. Moby Grape however, were only interesting for their first album and Skip Spence's solo work. Black Oak Arkansas may have had three guitarists first but they didn't take advantage of them as well as Skynyrd did.

However, can you name the only band made up of two(count 'em, two) bass players?
posted by jonmc at 9:30 PM on December 17, 2001

The only band? Uh, Hugo Largo? I can think of a few two-bass bands, but they have singers'n'stuff too. Just two basses and nothing else?
posted by rodii at 9:34 PM on December 17, 2001

rodii-
the answer is DOS, consisting of Mike Watt(of Minutemen and Porno for Pyros fame) and his wife Kira Roessler(formerly of Black Flag.)
Man, me and you should get together and trade MP3's or something, between the two of us we probably know everything.
posted by jonmc at 9:41 PM on December 17, 2001

Oh yeah, Dos, I knew that!

Jon, I think a lot of people here know a lot about all kinds of music.
posted by rodii at 9:56 PM on December 17, 2001

i've always had respect for rock bands whose bassist is so unique that guitarists aren't necessary. morphine and three mile pilot come to mind.
posted by afx114 at 10:42 PM on December 17, 2001

another band in the two bassist category, volta do mar who i saw at a basement show and caused me, like mcsweetie, to explode. they've also got a drummer and a guitar player, which i don't think should put them out of running for a mention, they were amazing.
posted by mikeyb at 11:02 PM on December 17, 2001

Rothko beat that by consisting (until recently) of three bassists. (They're now working on expanding the lineup).
posted by rbrwr at 3:19 AM on December 18, 2001

You can't get a pancake in a Waffle House.
posted by bunnyfire at 3:59 AM on December 18, 2001

jonmc - innovation is not the sole, nor even the greatest, measure of music.
posted by NortonDC at 4:33 AM on December 18, 2001

I hate Waffle House.
posted by jennyb at 5:51 AM on December 18, 2001

bunnyfire is, of course, correct, as confirmed by the Waffle House menu.
posted by MrMoonPie at 6:58 AM on December 18, 2001

Skynyrd should be in because of their kickass (and anti-drug) “The Needle and the Spoon.”

Besides, they opened the door for .38 Special.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:02 AM on December 18, 2001

Another two-bass band: Ned's Atomic Dustbin
posted by jnthnjng at 8:16 AM on December 18, 2001

spinal tap did 3 basses way back when... "big bottom"
posted by afx114 at 9:19 AM on December 18, 2001

To me this just proves what a joke the Hall of Fame is. Skynyrd didn't make the cut, but the Ramones did?
It probably was "Sweet Home Alabama's" lyrics that blackballed Van Zant & Company. Or should I say "tarbrushed" (a la Neil Young)...
btw Neil Young has made some of my all-time favorite songs as well as many I can't stand. "Southern Man" falls into the latter category.
posted by StOne at 9:33 AM on December 18, 2001

Ned's Atomic Dustbin gets a gold star for being named for a Goon Show episode.

The Rock and Roll hall of fame has always sucked and will continue to suck.
posted by dagnyscott at 4:22 PM on December 18, 2001

...great song where they combine two "classic" rock songs

ColdChef, check out Dread Zeppelin, if you haven't already. One joke band, but it was a great joke.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:38 AM on December 19, 2001

One more twist to the Neil Young/Lynyrd Skynyrd story...

Neil Young allegedly wrote "Powderfinger" to actually be performed by Lynyrd Skynyrd, which to my knowledge never actually happened... but it's interesting none the less, and just something else worth noting.

Anyone know if there is any truth to this?

Also, I'll chime in with a "WTF" vote as for LS not being inducted... they are well known as the definitive southern rock band...and certainly better known (and played more often) than any other, save maybe the Allman Brothers.
posted by canoeguide at 4:57 AM on December 19, 2001

Who cares if LS aren't inducted into R&R H/F. That doesn't diminish the fact that they are -- were -- an awesome band. Ronnie Van Zant, along with Hendrix, SR Vaughn, J. Morrison and Janet Joplin, among the few, are now immortal because of their untimely death.

I could give a rat's ass about the H/F distinction. Al Pacino didn't win an oscar until 'Scent Of a Women,' but that didn't mean that he wasn't a good actor before that. I mean, they overlooked his performance in both the Godfathers', for chrissake. That in itself ought to tell you something.
posted by Rastafari at 6:11 AM on December 19, 2001

Ronnie Van Zant, along with Hendrix, SR Vaughn, J. Morrison and Janet Joplin, among the few,

Among the few what?

are now immortal because of their untimely death.

Oxymoron of the day award!
posted by rodii at 6:27 AM on December 19, 2001

Janet Joplin

Janis Joplin. And she's among the immortal because she was an awesome vocalist.
posted by anapestic at 6:43 AM on December 19, 2001

Time to play down the conspiracy a bit. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame voters are industry veterans who know a thing or two about music (my former boss at Billboard among them). The list of nominees every year is overwhelming in its excellence, which means that someone is destined to feel slighted.

As noted above, inductees are elected for their lasting contribution, pioneering and influence. Lynyrd Skynyrd has two great songs, three guitarists, and, well, what else? Billy Joel, for all the knocks one can make against him, has a three-decades-full catalog of memorable and against-the-grain songs.

The same argument against Skynyrd can be made for AC/DC--adored by angry teens everywhere, but never more than a heavy riff and a whiskey-addled voice--and Kiss, long a favorite of mine but banished to rock purgatory for emphasizing style over substance.
posted by werty at 7:41 AM on December 19, 2001

I just need to say that I never expected Ned's to be a drift topic in a thread about Skynyrd.. I love this place.
posted by tj at 11:20 AM on December 19, 2001

~Lynyrd Skynyrd! I hate those Welsh bastards.~
posted by rodii at 2:00 PM on December 19, 2001

I hate to disrupt the cheer that's brimming over around here, but -- have we really slipped into an alternate universe in which Billy Joel is not the worst performer of the rock 'n' roll era? Good God, tell me someone else thinks combining the calculated schmaltz of Tin Pan Alley with the smarmy egotism of the singer/songwriter era is a terrible idea. That, and the clumsy self-righteousness he conjures up whenever he tries to Rock On Out (just listen the Glass Houses if you don't believe me) -- it's just terrible. Please people.
posted by argybarg at 2:04 PM on December 19, 2001

Billy Joel is the Neil Diamond of the eighties.
posted by elvissinatra at 2:06 PM on December 19, 2001

Billy Joel, for all the knocks one can make against him, has a three-decades-full catalog of memorable and against-the-grain songs.

While Cold Spring Harbor came out in 1971, I think it's safe to say that BJ's career didn't really start until 1973's Piano Man. I think it's also fairly safe to say that his "memorable" songs were pretty much all written by 1983's An Innocent Man. That would be one decade of pop hits, none of which could really be considered "against-the-grain" other than possibly the doo-woppy "The Longest Time." I finally picked up his Greatest Hits Vols 1 & 2 on CD (for free) this weekend, and while there are a lot of fun songs from my childhood, there is nothing worthy of nomination for an award that's supposedly given to people who have made a lasting impact on rock and roll.
posted by elvissinatra at 2:18 PM on December 19, 2001

I'd like to take a moment here to defend The Ramones. I mean, come on. "I Wanna Be Sedated"? "Blitzkrieg Bop"? "The KKK Took My Baby Away"? "Rock and Roll High School"? Even if you think Skynyrd shoulda been in the Hall of Fame, don't deny the Ramones' rightful place as the godfathers of American punk and as the masters of three-chord RAWK.

Twenty-twenty-twenty four hours ago...I wanna be sedated...

But yeah, the R&RHOF is inherently bogus. I mean, come on: these are rock critics deciding the Canon. This is Jann Wenner and Greil Marcus deciding what the best of rock was. Of course they're not gonna pick Skynyrd! I'm looking over all their inductees and I see a few questionable ones, IMHO. I mean, THE BEE GEES are in there. So is Dion. It's entirely subjective, like all awards and lists.
posted by solistrato at 6:44 PM on December 19, 2001

another band in the two bassist category

Cop Shoot Cop
posted by drezdn at 12:17 PM on December 20, 2001

To clear things up:

Billy Joel is a rock'n'roller like Liberace was a classical pianist. The Ramones, on the other hand, invented rock and roll. (This may not by HISTORICALLY accurate, but it is SPIRITUALLY accurate) Lynard Skynard is neither as great as y'all think they are, nor do they suck as hard as I think they do.

The greatest band of all time might be The Mekons. Or The Minutemen. Or maybe The Dickies....no, wait, not the Dickies....
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:04 AM on January 2, 2002

Better late than never:

The middle-aged woman who doles out unused concert tickets in my office once left a classic voicemail informing us that a Mr. Leonard Skynard would be appearing, and would any of us like a ticket?

Maybe that's the Hall of Fame blocker: the Hall thinks that Leonard Skynard is their accountant, not a band...
posted by Rubicon1 at 7:23 PM on January 7, 2002