Jerking guys off is clumsy and weird.

September 23, 2013 6:57 PM

I Do Not Want To Jack Guys Off Is there anything more ludicrous than a woman giving a man a hand job?

There’s a disconnect, obviously, between wanting to give a hand job and wanting to be fingerbanged, and it’s annoying that “mutual masturbation” is a thing women’s “mags” encourage. Most guys are pretty shit at fingering, but I didn’t realize this until quite recently, when I started flicking my own bean on the regular.

posted by mediareport (203 comments total)

I don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, just a link to this.

Enjoy.
posted by GrumpyDan at 7:01 PM on September 23, 2013 [6 favorites]

Well, bondcliff and others could have told you that.
posted by Melismata at 7:03 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Her logic made no sense to me.
posted by jessamyn at 7:03 PM on September 23, 2013 [15 favorites]

Forget it, jessamyn. It's Thought Catalog.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:04 PM on September 23, 2013 [41 favorites]

Goddammit, there's only three comments and I've already been beaten to Garfunkel & Oates.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:04 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

Ridiculous. Note that I spelled this word correctly and not the way every neuron in my head wanted me to spell it.
posted by 1adam12 at 7:05 PM on September 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

Are we sure this wasn't written in 1992?
posted by brookeb at 7:06 PM on September 23, 2013

there's only three comments

On lack of preview, four.

I've already been beaten to

I see what I did there.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:07 PM on September 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

sometimes I enjoy being a passenger in a car simply looking out the window
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:08 PM on September 23, 2013 [23 favorites]

Allow me to use my semi-pseudo-anonymity and say my wife and I agree that having someone else get you off beats the absolute pants off of self-gratification.

Nothin' magical about playin' with yourself.
posted by codswallop at 7:08 PM on September 23, 2013 [10 favorites]

Have to say I agree with jessamyn, nothing about this article makes sense to me.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:08 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

With mutual masturbation, everyone gets happy-feels and oxytocin from the presence of the other person, and no one gets pregnant or an STD. What's not to like?
posted by muddgirl at 7:09 PM on September 23, 2013 [18 favorites]

I can sort of understand her logic (the angle, not being a pro at it compared to the guy), but I suspect the whole thing of a man getting beaten off by a woman is that he isn't doing all the work for once.

I dunno, I still think it's weird that someone came up with shoving faces into genitals. That to me is weirder. But then again, there are so many weird things one can do with another's body.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Different strokes for different folks?
posted by These Birds of a Feather at 7:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [37 favorites]

Dismissing a sex act because it is ludicrous would pretty much outlaw sex.
posted by srboisvert at 7:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [166 favorites]

Wow, some of y'all are being very for serious on this one. Maybe it's cause I'm a fag, but I was giggling from the first line. I freely admit that jacking off guys is one of my favorite sex things, and someone else's hand on my junk is usually a welcome addition, but I really liked the way she poked at the idea that handjobs are always fun and interesting. They're kinda sometimes not.
posted by mediareport at 7:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

I'm not sure who thinks handjobs are always fun and interesting. As a female friend of mine once put it "A handjob? That's so fifth grade."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:15 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

I went to the wrong elementary school.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 PM on September 23, 2013 [86 favorites]

Author is merely bragging that she had a sex.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:16 PM on September 23, 2013 [22 favorites]

"A handjob? That's so fifth grade."

You're not doing them right. They're often fun and interesting.
posted by mediareport at 7:16 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

but I really liked the way she poked at the idea that handjobs are always fun and interesting

I guess I didn't know this was an idea, but I am probably old and out of touch. Back in my heady days of college it seemed like all the girls preferred blowjobs and my male friends were bemoaning the lost art of the handie. Maybe it's cyclical.
posted by muddgirl at 7:16 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

some of the best sex is ludicrous
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:17 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

Wow, some of y'all are being very for serious on this one. Maybe it's cause I'm a fag, but I was giggling from the first line. I freely admit that jacking off guys is one of my favorite sex things, and someone else's hand on my junk is usually a welcome addition, but I really liked the way she poked at the idea that handjobs are always fun and interesting. They're kinda sometimes not.

I found the piece abrasive at the start because she's so abrupt. She doesn't come to the point about women's magazines until the middle, so until then I just got all hot and bothered about why this was an issue for her.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:17 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

. . . the time could be spent on something he can’t do to himself. Like a blowjob.

I don't think you guys are giving her argument sufficient consideration.
posted by Curious Artificer at 7:17 PM on September 23, 2013 [14 favorites]

sometimes I even listen to Ludacris while doing the sex
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:17 PM on September 23, 2013 [6 favorites]

there are hell of terrible autoplaying ads on this page. "There's only two of us. How much dirt can we manufacture?" just, ugh.
posted by boo_radley at 7:17 PM on September 23, 2013

There is some strange confusion of "sex" and "chore" here that I'm not getting.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:18 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

This article makes sense when you understand that it was written by a chicken who obviously has no experience with an external penis but instead must deal with an inverted cloaca.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:18 PM on September 23, 2013 [11 favorites]

some of the best sex is ludicrous

Some of the best sex to watch while getting hand jobs is ludicrous. Then again, that can get pretty recursive fairly quickly.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:19 PM on September 23, 2013

oh this isn't the MeFi IRL?
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:19 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

O h I have to give so many handjobs o h my what a chore. #humblebrag
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:19 PM on September 23, 2013 [21 favorites]

when you understand that it was written by a chicken

That explains the "flicking the bean" reference, if nothing else.
posted by jessamyn at 7:20 PM on September 23, 2013 [10 favorites]

The news in this article is not that handjobs are or are not a good thing, but that she claims that many females do not "flick the bean". I don't buy that. As for handjobs if I want it to feel like a stranger, I just use my left hand.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:20 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

this page is now result number 2 for a certain phrase. Can you guess what that phrase is?
posted by boo_radley at 7:21 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

Big Hand doesn't want you to know!!!
posted by grobstein at 7:22 PM on September 23, 2013 [13 favorites]

Can you guess what that phrase is?

having a sex
Ludacris
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:22 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

She compares masturbating a guy to cooking eggs?
Make mine over easy.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 7:22 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

GRILLED CHEESE SANDWICH ? MORE LIKE VELVEETA ON WONDER BREAD YALLL *crowd goes wild, carries me into the sunset, throws me into the sun*
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:22 PM on September 23, 2013 [24 favorites]

they don't call it a job for nothin'
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:23 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

So boring and pointless, Prince wrote a song about it.
posted by NedKoppel at 7:24 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

There are so many problems with this. Neurologically, touching yourself vs being touched is not the same thing. Try tickling yourself or giving yourself comforting hugs.
posted by stbalbach at 7:24 PM on September 23, 2013 [18 favorites]

ok i did they work pretty good but dont do too many or you will overdose
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:25 PM on September 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

I'm tempted to start a crowdfunding campaign that aims to resolve this once and for all via a specially designed glove that's specially fitted with nooks and crannies that maximize sensation for him while keeping a safe layer of distance for her, it will be called the Stroke Glove. I'm not sure exactly how it will be tested in focus groups though. :D
posted by fantodstic at 7:25 PM on September 23, 2013

This thread is way funnier than this article.

Can you still call it "flicking the bean" if you recognize that it's actually not a bean but a big organ that has a small external element?

Maybe "Chipping the Iceberg" or "Knocking on the TARDIS' Door"?

(Edited to put the TARDIS in all caps, correction via my wife.)
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:26 PM on September 23, 2013 [44 favorites]

I think we need to create an appropriate soundtrack for this discussion.

Obvious Must Include Track

Less obvious choice

Really doesn't even belong on the list, but includes the word "jerk"
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:27 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

(And I don't know what to do with myself)
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

This is the song you were looking for...
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

Is there anything more ludicrous than a woman giving a man a hand job?

Not from where I'm sitting.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

There are so many problems with this. Neurologically, touching yourself vs being touched is not the same thing. Try tickling yourself or giving yourself comforting hugs.

I don't think the most perspicuous explanation of why one can't give oneself a comforting hug is going to be neurological.
posted by kenko at 7:30 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

It's no big deal, just warm up the cantaloupe 5 seconds for every pound and the party will start itself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 PM on September 23, 2013 [12 favorites]

. . . the time could be spent on something he can’t do to himself. Like a blowjob.

I don't think you guys are giving her argument sufficient consideration.

Well, some of us are more flexible than others.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:31 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

I read the entire article, and after 15 years of marriage, I must say that I am pretty shocked that Kat George is regarded as a de facto "sexpert." While I don't think she is wrong about sex (you feel what you feel and think what you think), I am not sure if she is particularly qualified to be dishing out sex advice.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:32 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

I still remember the question when it was brought up in 7th grade health class: "What is rubbing it going to do?"

I think the teacher actually lost consciousness for a second or two.
posted by Sphinx at 7:32 PM on September 23, 2013 [14 favorites]

that's a vigorous rub
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:34 PM on September 23, 2013 [14 favorites]

This is the song I was thinking of.

if you recognize that it's actually not a bean but a big organ that has a small external element?

Maybe that will be the subject of her next book...
posted by jessamyn at 7:35 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

codswallop: Nothin' magical about playin' with yourself.

Looks like you haven't read the right Harry Potter fan fiction.
posted by dr_dank at 7:35 PM on September 23, 2013 [11 favorites]

I must say that I am pretty shocked that Kat George is regarded as a de facto "sexpert."

Is she really?! She reads like a very young, mostly inexperienced, sexually naive person.

Maybe she's a sexpert on young, naive, inexperienced sex.
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:41 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

Maybe she's a sexpert on young, naive, inexperienced sex.

Aren't we all?
posted by Cash4Lead at 7:42 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

Nobody who has received, like, any amount of handjobs thinks that handjobs are just immediately some terrific thing. Handjobs are probably one of the harder vanilla sex things to get right, in fact.

Acting like this is some huge insight just means you've dated some awfully nice guys in the past.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:43 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

nice guys finish last
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 7:44 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

Also: saddest handjob in America.
posted by Cash4Lead at 7:45 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

I know of 2 handjob role-plays invented as a result of Breaking Bad. "Ebay" and "Hospital Visit".

The rules for the Ebay one are that you actually have to buy something. The rules for the Hospital Visit, well they're more complicated -- it takes a hospital and a wheelchair.

Yes, my world has gone Breaking Bad crazy.
posted by surplus at 7:46 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

Dear Diary,

Today I touched a man's bottom.

I don't understand what the fuss is about.

xo, Kat
posted by Squeak Attack at 7:49 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

What this author may not understand is that the key to a great handjob is the balls. Punch them as hard as you can with the off hand while screaming insults in Japanese. Works for my hubby!
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:51 PM on September 23, 2013 [36 favorites]

She compares masturbating a guy to cooking eggs?
Make mine over easy.

Nah, unfertilized.
posted by phearlez at 7:52 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

I pride myself at being good at things. Cooking. Working. Talking. Socializing. White water rafting. But I am more than happy to concede on wanking – I will never be as good at wanking as the seasoned professional attached to the penis in question. I will always be a sub par wanker.

now see what you have to do here is find yourself a dude with a death grip



and then ya gotta regret finding yourself a dude with a death grip
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:55 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

A more correct metaphor would have been something like, "Your boyfriend cooks his own eggs every day. Why would he want YOU to make him some eggs when he clearly knows his own taste???"

When you frame it that way, it's obvious that "eggs someone else made for me" can indeed be more desirable than "the same damn eggs I've been making for myself since I was 13."
posted by muddgirl at 7:56 PM on September 23, 2013 [32 favorites]

Different strokes for different folks, which is the point she fails to grasp.
posted by Apoch at 7:58 PM on September 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

handjobs are the best, i don't get the dislike. love getting and giving them.
posted by PinkMoose at 7:58 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Oh, honey, hand jobs aren't like your meal in the restaurant, they're the appetizer. Maybe the amuse bouche if it's a really good place. You can make a whole meal out of them if you want, because some places it's worth it, but other places there's a whole main course coming up so it's okay if they're not the ultimate-best so you can pace yourself a bit. And sometimes they're like one of the gabillion dishes on the mile-long buffet and it's okay to try just a little bit at first and wait to see if you like it before going back for seconds.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:59 PM on September 23, 2013 [11 favorites]

Today I touched a man's bottom.

BOTTOMITE
posted by elizardbits at 8:00 PM on September 23, 2013 [6 favorites]

Maybe the amuse bouche if it's a really good place.

Sorry but all this brings up is the Hannibal episode.
posted by elizardbits at 8:01 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

Wow, someone on the internet has an opinion about sex? I never thought I'd see the day.
posted by Scientist at 8:07 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

I once got an excruciating handjob that I describe as follows:

Imagine that you find an oasis in the desert. You make it to the edge of the oasis and the girl tells you that she needs to get you a drinking cup. You're sitting there like, "LET ME JUST PUT MY FACE IN THE WATER AND DRINK. I DONT NEED YOUR HELP!" while the girl is telling you that she almost has that cup ready to go.
posted by reenum at 8:09 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

So, wait, if she's not the best at penis-in-vagina sex, will she stop doing that, too?
posted by oddman at 8:09 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

Louis CK has a great bit about his wife giving him a handjob on the floor of their kid's bedroom (the kid wasn't around, naturally). I laughed for minutes.

Handjobs are a bit like the tin of beans at the back of the pantry. You're not coming through the front door bustin' for beans, but if it's all you've got and the shop's closed, then it's fulfilling enough. And if you're starving, well, any port in a storm. Throw on a bit of hot sauce, you've got yourself a handjob meal.

Girl doesn't want to help out? No big deal sweetheart, that's why all your scrunchies are in the wash. Txt me when the beans r ready.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:13 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

"Nobody who has received, like, any amount of handjobs thinks that handjobs are just immediately some terrific thing. Handjobs are probably one of the harder vanilla sex things to get right, in fact."

She makes the same point, and in my limited experience, this is true. Handjobs are weirdly difficult, often awkward, and individuals greatly vary on what they like.

But this is true of manual sex for women, too. And not only that, it's true about oral sex for both sexes. Some/many people — many who I know are much more sexually experienced than I am — seem to often forget this when they make universal assertions about good oral sex technique. My more limited experience with women (regarding me doing manual and oral on her) is that women vary greatly on what "works".

Meanwhile, both genders masturbate. It's still the case that the proportion of men who masturbate is higher than those of women, but the difference is nowhere near as great as it once was in the US. And people are very good at masturbation, of course.

The thing about that, though, is that this virtue is also a vice. Being really good at masturbation paradoxically can make it more mechanical and boring, like brushing your teeth, but admittedly much more fun. Fun, but too quick and ultimately not memorable. A perfect orgasm machine that is instantaneous would end up being pretty boring — a great orgasm in a few seconds, but so quick and easy and exactly the same every time, that it ends up feeling like fast food.

We actually sort of like what doesn't work so well about actual sex with another person. Which is to say, it's unpredictable and messy and often greatly varied. This requires that every instant of it is something less than perfect technique. The folk that imagine that there's perfect technique and think of sex as like an Olympic athletic event at which focus and training and experience will lead to some approaching perfection ... those people are very confused about what it is about sex that's so great. It's not the orgasm or the simple physical pleasure, it's the whole messy, chaotic package of interacting so intimately with another person.

I mean, really, speaking frankly: the best masturbatory experiences I've had have been unpredictable, messy, even difficult. The daily-five-minutes-porn-orgasm? Not so great. Waking up in the middle of the night inexplicably very horny and furious masturbation totally outside my usual context for masturbation (which is to say, not the same fantasies or whatever, not the same warm-up, or whatever) ... those are surprisingly, amazingly great.

That's true for sex with another person. Pretty much in the same ways. Regularly scheduled, expected sex doing the same things leading to the same admittedly good mutual orgasm? Fun, but routine. That totally unexpected, weird, awkward sex that took longer than you both expected but felt completely different? That's memorably great.

So, you know, it's not all about technique. That's missing the forest for the trees. This author doesn't seem to understand sex very well.

Finally, I've actually had very few handjobs. Whatever age/subcultural/idiosyncratic experience I've had, it has been much heavier on intercourse and oral sex than on handjobs. I mean, I say "handjobs" because my sense is that I've always spent a fair amount of time manually stimulating my partners, sometimes to orgasm, all my life so it's not a general thing about manual sex. It's that my partners haven't really spent much time doing it to me.

Which is sort of weird because there's this intuition, which appears earlier, that handjobs should be like the entry into sexual experience, and therefore common. But that's not been my experience.

All of which is to say that I'd like to have lots more handjobs than I've had. I'll gladly trade fellatio for handjobs at this point in my life. Maybe because one has been relatively rare in my experience and that makes it more interesting and attractive. But it also sort of seems like manual stimulation has its own mystery, just like oral does. Oral is exquisitely intimate, about as intimate as anything could be. Manual sex is ... there's a control/power thing going on. If the phrase "giving someone an orgasm" makes any sense, it's the most apt for manual orgasms. And that's pretty sexy, just for the interpersonal dynamics of it. Again, it's not about technique.

This woman needs to expand her horizons.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:14 PM on September 23, 2013 [37 favorites]

sometimes I put the dishes in the dishwasher, sometimes I wash them by hand
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 8:17 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

If this woman just gives an everyday handjob, then I can see her point, I guess. But, you know how it's a Thing to buy people fancy versions of everyday items for birthdays and holidays? Things that you wouldn't normally buy for yourself like cashmere socks and expensive shaving lotion that are too extravagant when your everyday cheap socks and cheap shave gel are Good Enough. I think people generally treat masturbation like that: you know how to touch yourself in the optimal way to get the job done, but you don't really go beyond that because life is busy blah blah, thus, the everyday handjob. I would hope that most decent lovers don't have any desire to give an everyday handjob, but instead aim to give a cashmere sock handjob (not literally, although.. maybe?), which is something that a man could do for himself, but doesn't because it involves time, technique, etc. that is just too much to justify doing on any kind of regular basis.

On preview, what Ivan Fyodorovich said. /overthinking a plate of flicked beans
posted by gatorae at 8:20 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

an everyday handjob

what constitutes a fancy handjob though

glitter

a mariachi band

a bow tie

what
posted by elizardbits at 8:23 PM on September 23, 2013 [59 favorites]

Cashmere Sock Handjob is definitely my new band name, or possibly my new sockpuppet account.
posted by Scientist at 8:27 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

elizardbits: I think a monacle would also be a nice touch.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 8:28 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

what constitutes a fancy handjob though

well, wear all your jewelry. rings and whatnot.
posted by kafziel at 8:32 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm just gonna drop this musical number here with only the warning that it does indeed involve a chicken.
posted by Ron Thanagar at 8:32 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

ok all, just gave myself a "hand job", article checks out
posted by whyareyouatriangle at 8:32 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

I can't find my friend's article on The Lost Art of the Hand Job on the Internets anymore. It was originally from Sweet Action Magazine #1 and is, as I recall, a fantastic counterpoint to the linked article.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:33 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

I feel sad for this person.
posted by clvrmnky at 8:34 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

what constitutes a fancy handjob though

I was going to make some kind of a comment about it all being in the wrist, but before I could I suddenly got Roger Daltrey singing in my head:

I'm a hand job wizard,
I do things with a twist,
A hand job wizard's got
Such a supple wrist....

posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 PM on September 23, 2013 [6 favorites]

Greg honey, is it supposed to be this soft?
posted by Ber at 8:35 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

fantodstic: "I'm tempted to start a crowdfunding campaign that aims to resolve this once and for all via a specially designed glove that's specially fitted with nooks and crannies that maximize sensation for him while keeping a safe layer of distance for her, it will be called the Stroke Glove."

Isn't that basically the fleshlight?

elizardbits: "what constitutes a fancy handjob though"

Elbow length silk gloves?
posted by Mitheral at 8:37 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

I wish people could write about sex without resorting to so much elegant variation all the time.
posted by anothermug at 8:39 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

I will always be a sub par wanker.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you're a extraordinary wanker.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:40 PM on September 23, 2013 [18 favorites]

Is there anything more ludicrous than a woman giving a man a hand job?

Well, yes, quite a few things come to mind. Even just limiting the topic to sex, quite a few things come to mind. I've heard squelchy noises that surpassed handjobs in ludicrousness, let alone truly ludicrous sexual practices such as the belief that if a woman puts her finger into a man's ass, it somehow makes the man homosexualish.

The other weird thing about hand jobs is that every guy likes it different.

Are we sure she's had a sex? Because if she thinks handjobs are unique in this aspect, I'm not sure she knows what she's talking about.
posted by desuetude at 8:57 PM on September 23, 2013 [4 favorites]

sometimes I put the dishes in the dishwasher, sometimes I wash them by hand

God, I only wish I had a dishwasher in this apartment and I do not understand this metaphor.
posted by maryr at 8:57 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

I think it means that sometimes people put their dicks inside a machine.
posted by elizardbits at 8:58 PM on September 23, 2013 [9 favorites]

A machine full of boiling hot water that shoots out in pulsating cleansing jets and afterwards there is stuff to make it shiny
posted by elizardbits at 8:59 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

Kind of ironic, considering Thought Catalog is itself a circle jerk.
posted by Lutoslawski at 8:59 PM on September 23, 2013 [2 favorites]

my secret to giving a great hand job is the same as that for giving a great blow job: you have to absolutely love what you're doing. i used to say that what i lacked in skill i made up for with eagerness, until i learned that eagerness brings it's own set of amazing skills.

i always feel bad for dudes with partners who approach it like it's a chore.
posted by fallacy of the beard at 9:04 PM on September 23, 2013 [6 favorites]

I always find it interesting when women don't want to do certain sex acts because they think they are bad at them, and not because they don't enjoy them.

I mean, give hand jobs, don't give hand jobs, whatever. And I'll admit that I occasionally catch myself framing sex this way, too.

But, seriously, we should give ourselves permission to just not like doing sex stuff. It's perfectly OK to say "I think hand jobs are boring" or "I don't like touching penises" or "I like it better when we do something that gets me off" or whatever. Why does it have to reduce to "I don't like giving hand jobs because I am not the world's foremost expert in hand jobs"?
posted by Sara C. at 9:09 PM on September 23, 2013 [9 favorites]

Am I having a particularly dense evening, or is her egg-cooking analogy completely backwards?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Thought Catalog is itself a circle jerk

In my defense, I had no idea it was apparently cliched/tired/annoying enough to be poked at by very important folks ages ago. I'd never heard of Thought Catalog before but when it threw itself at me on Twitter I laughed and said "what the hell." As first-time experiences go, it was fun enough. Would hand-job again.
posted by mediareport at 9:11 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

Also it concerns me that this woman is writing a book or possibly has a column about sex, when she apparently only recently started masturbating.
posted by Sara C. at 9:12 PM on September 23, 2013 [12 favorites]

>Maybe she's a sexpert on young, naive, inexperienced sex.

Aren't we all?

Speak for yourself, some of us waited until we were old before having the naive, inexperienced sex.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:18 PM on September 23, 2013 [8 favorites]

She is actually right.
posted by jejune at 9:24 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

It isn't until reading things like this that I realize how disconnected some people are from their own sex lives/sex organs.

If you can't have tons of fun with yourself or your partner using only your hands then what the hell do you do with each other

Seriously do you just sit around and talk about NPR

Do you just stare at the wall when you're bored

Who are these people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:43 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

Perhaps she's doing it (NSFW) like this?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 9:48 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

If you can't have tons of fun with yourself or your partner using only your hands then what the hell do you do with each other

canasta maybe
posted by elizardbits at 9:51 PM on September 23, 2013 [5 favorites]

I always thought this song was instructional, both for self love and a handy j.
posted by onehalfjunco at 10:11 PM on September 23, 2013

Christ, imagine sitting on the couch in your apartment and it's like 3:30 on a Sunday afternoon and it's hot and you've got a headache and you haven't paid the power bill so the TV's off and you're just sitting there and decide to jerk one another off while reminiscing about that controversial NPR bit about Foxconn. Even with the masturbation that's like the third level of hell. Also your anus tattoo is still really sore.
posted by turbid dahlia at 10:13 PM on September 23, 2013

Overflicking a lap of beans.
posted by chavenet at 10:50 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

Sure, I can't get Mr. Yum off by hand alone, but let's face it--he was in 7th grade and already jacking off when I was born. I met and had sexytimes with him just before my 21st birthday.

Mr. Yum was not my first partner nor has he been my last (yay, non-monogamy!). We've been together 16 years. I wasn't keen on "jobs" of any kind when I met him, if ya catch my drift. He clued me in on how to do those jobs when I admitted I didn't really know what I was doing but wanted to learn. What he taught me came in handy with subsequent partners--I've gotten lots of complements on "those jobs". :)
posted by Val_E_Yum at 10:53 PM on September 23, 2013

This is Just to Say

I have jerked off
the dick
that was in
your pants

and which
you have probably
jerked off
yourself

Forgive me
it was ludicrous
so inept
and so awkward
posted by clorox at 10:56 PM on September 23, 2013 [27 favorites]

Well, what about a hand internship then?
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:00 PM on September 23, 2013 [7 favorites]

The internship is unpaid, same as in town.
posted by mbrubeck at 11:09 PM on September 23, 2013 [9 favorites]

idk y'all. I'm a healthy 24-year-old woman who's been masturbating since she could use the English language and I really, just, don't care for manual stimulation. From someone else. Gimme the good stuff. :\
posted by stoneandstar at 11:13 PM on September 23, 2013

The rules for the Hospital Visit, well they're more complicated -- it takes a hospital and a wheelchair.

And what, tapping until it explodes on half your face?
posted by Riki tiki at 11:14 PM on September 23, 2013 [1 favorite]

She compares masturbating a guy to cooking eggs?

You can beat an egg, but you can't beat a wank.
posted by Segundus at 11:42 PM on September 23, 2013 [3 favorites]

She could have just written the first line of that article, and left it at that.

Also, guys can totally blow themselves. Google (or rather don't) autofellatio.

Stroke Glove.
posted by Solomon at 12:00 AM on September 24, 2013

Seriously do you just sit around and talk about NPR

Close. Listen to a tape loop of "This is Syllvia PogggIOli", over and over. That's porn right there.
posted by msalt at 12:15 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I've given some hand jobs. One time I was even forced to do it, and that was the most absurd and ridiculous thing. (of course it was about power. And the dude had no idea I was expert at blowjobs!). In my experience, to give a good handjob to a dude, you have to be close enough to kiss or lick it.

As for myself, thanks, no. I don't like other hands on my meat. I've never been especially fond of receiving blowjobs, either, but sometimes they are awesome. But if things need to happen quickly, hey, IMO, nothing beats my hand and a cuddle!

As for general advice: Dudes, if you haven't discovered it yet, you should know that men, too, can experience multiple (or continuous!) orgasms. 8

And I can not resist:
Metafilter: overthinking a plate of flicked beans
posted by Goofyy at 12:23 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Because variety is the spice of life.
posted by sexyrobot at 1:32 AM on September 24, 2013

there's a niceness to it
posted by es_de_bah at 1:33 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

120 comments in and no acknowledgement of the difference between the dry and the lubed HJ? Surprised.

Don't even bother trying to get a dude off with your hand without lube. With lube. Every time.

Then: do the things he doesn't. Go slow. Tease. Massage his balls and his perineum and his inner thighs. Use both hands. Play with different kinds of touch. Whisper in his ear what else you want to do with his cock.

There's so much potential!
posted by wemayfreeze at 1:57 AM on September 24, 2013 [5 favorites]

I always find it interesting when women don't want to do certain sex acts because they think they are bad at them, and not because they don't enjoy them.

Such an excellent point. I wonder if the worry is that being seen as not liking handjobs/blowjobs because they're boring (unless the guy's turned you on sufficiently) might make her feel selfish or vulnerable to criticism/being told she's frigid/selfish/prudish.

Maybe I'm the only one, but I always got this sense that you're supposed to work really hard and sweep a guy off his feet sexually, and that means having to learn to like the jobs. And even initially liking the jobs until you get to the point that you dislike doing them because you're not being appreciated for it/he feels entitled to it and you feel like you're being treated more like an object than a person.

So, I think there's more to all of this. And I used to think that giving handjobs were for when the idea of having sex with an unromantic/unsympathetic/unhelpful doltish husband (from all the housecleaning product commercials where the husband is depicted as being too dumb to do anything) was too exhausting to deal with but you felt sorry for him and obligated and too worn out to talk about why you don't see him as a sexy person anymore.

I'm wrong, of course. Carry on.
posted by discopolo at 2:01 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Wow. I love that Garfunkel & Oates track. lol
posted by jeffburdges at 2:07 AM on September 24, 2013

It's true that I've been doing it nearly everyday for over 20 years, but I admit I like it when someone else does it. How they carefully cradle it, and slowly rub that viscous liquid in. How they use their hands to slowly and rhythmically work it into a nice lather. Sometimes they also massage the head, but it always ends with a rinse of lukewarm water and my stylist giving me a nice haircut.
posted by FJT at 2:17 AM on September 24, 2013 [10 favorites]

I don't have any particular opinion on "the jobs", whether one ought to like them, whether one ought to pretend to like them because it's the nice thing to do, etc.

It's just interesting to me that so much of female sexuality is framed in that way.

She wrote how many words, and not a single one is about whether she enjoys them, or really any reason besides "I cannot possibly be the world's best hand-jobber, therefore why bother".
posted by Sara C. at 2:26 AM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

Handjobs (and finger banging) are for when your toddler doesn't go to sleep until 9pm and you're both exhausted but both horny, and you want to move as little as possible and still get each other off.

Also, for the shower.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:27 AM on September 24, 2013

I personally feel like both are worthwhile components to, like, a holistic approach to sex. I doubt I would come from fingering alone, but fingering definitely has its place within the overall game plan. Same for hand jobs, in my experience, unless every dude I've been with was a world class actor.

To extend the amuse bouche analogy, it's like a frise salad. I'm not going to weep with joy to see it on a menu, and I'm not going to order it as my only course, but if it arrives, that's fine by me. I might even order it as an appetiser, if I was getting something really rich as the main course. I'd definitely be game for trying a bite if a friend ordered it and said it was really good. Frise salad has its place.

You know?
posted by Sara C. at 2:37 AM on September 24, 2013

It's this sort of mindset that says, hey, if you're not a chef, don't bother cooking. Because you're experienced at getting yourself off with your hand, and your partner is experienced in getting themselves off with their hand, you shouldn't try getting each other off with your hands because you're only getting second best. Kind of, you know, missing the whole point.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:54 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's perfectly OK to say "I think hand jobs are boring" or "I don't like touching penises" or "I like it better when we do something that gets me off" or whatever. Why does it have to reduce to "I don't like giving hand jobs because I am not the world's foremost expert in hand jobs"?

It's possible, though, that believing you're not an expert at something is what makes you not like giving them, because why go through that performance anxiety and self-doubt.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:16 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Don't even bother trying to get a dude off with your hand without lube. With lube. Every time.

I'm not a fan of hard and fast rules.
posted by crossoverman at 4:38 AM on September 24, 2013 [6 favorites]

I've never really been a fan. I blame seeing Animal House at an impressionable age. The evil frat guy sitting in the can with evil sorority girl, and the joylessness and chore-like nature of the handjob.

Since then, I've never had one without at least wondering how bored my partner was.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:01 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Don't even bother trying to get a dude off with your hand without lube. With lube. Every time.

Ick, no. Some of us are not lubejacks by nature and find the lubey thing weird and messy.
posted by sonascope at 5:03 AM on September 24, 2013

Buy Kat George’s PINK BITS.

Pepsi Blue Balls
posted by Thorzdad at 5:10 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

If you can't have tons of fun with yourself or your partner using only your hands then what the hell do you do with each other

I think there's a huge difference between "I can't have any fun with my partner just using my hands" and "I dislike giving handjobs."

She's not saying anything new - handjobs often suck for both parties, they're awkward, and because there's often an expectation of handjob to completion, you're stuck there for quite some time trying to make something happen that the guy himself could do in five minutes. It is not a skill that is useful to develop, and she is correct, mouth is much easier for both people, not least because you provide your own lube that is not slimy. Or the combination mouth/handjob.
posted by corb at 5:12 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

This is hilarious and I love it. Thanks for posting...always thought the same thing myself!

And after reading and commenting, I see that metafilter finds this link ridiculous and would probably have ridiculed me if I had commented earlier, so away to another post I go.
posted by agregoli at 6:16 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

MetaFilter: finds this link ridiculous and would probably have ridiculed me
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:30 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

See, "flicking" either means something other than what I was taught (the action one makes with a thumb and forefinger to forcefully make a bug or piece of lint fly off you at high speed) or she treats her bean like a tiny punching bag, in which case, ow. Maybe strumming is a better word?

I have no opinion on hand jobs, pro or con, other than "meh". I mean, unless it's a prelude instead of the only thing you're doing.
posted by emjaybee at 6:35 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

When I see one of the allegedly open and frank and supposedly humorous pieces about the sex, I can't help but wonder if it's part of a vast right-wing evangelical conspiracy to convince these kids today that sex is awful on the re-grouting a shower level of tedium and mess and uncomfortable positions.

Sort of like how Truth commercials inspire me, one who has never smoked, to buy a carton of unfiltered Camels.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:32 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

"Flicking" is like jerking or blowing: words attached to sex acts that represents actions that should never be present in those acts. I blame the Puritans (and middle schoolers) for the confusing terminology.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:36 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

It's okay to not like giving handjobs (as "okay" as it ever is with not liking a basic sex act ... meaning that this can be controversial but basically people should only be expected to do things they're comfortable doing) but the argument that handjobs are inherently unfun and redundant, as exemplified by corb's comment, is just plain wrong.

People keep repeating this "a guy can do it better himself" thing that is the basis of the writer's argument and that's a fallacy. I can hold my own hand, but that's hardly the same thing as someone else holding my hand. People can massage their own feet, but that's hardly the same thing as someone else massaging their feet. That second example is very appropriate, because you're more able to know where your feet ache and how to massage them for relief than someone else, so why would you ever want someone else to do it? But of course that's self-evidently wrong — despite the advantage of self-knowledge, someone else massaging your feet has numerous other advantages that more than compensate.

Just so with handjobs.

The basic argument being offered against handjobs applies to the least manual stimulation during sex as it does to a handjob to orgasm, so if the argument is valid, why bother with even touching a man's penis at all, because he can touch it himself, and so much "better"? Why should a man touch a woman's clitoris when she can do this so much better herself? Or nipples?

It seems to me that this argument is self-evidently fallacious — of course a partner's manual stimulation of one's erogenous zones is different than doing it oneself and in many respects more fun. It's a fundamental part of sex. The only thing different about a handjob for a man or its equivalent for a woman is that it's a focused, non-reciprocating sex act all the way to orgasm. Some people say that it's boring and unfair.

But this is true of non-reciprocated oral sex, too.

Which pretty much means that there can be a problem in a sexual relationship that manifests as an unequal expectation for oral sex or manual sex, which, yes, is not okay.

But handjobs are not inherently "wrong" or stupid any more than fellatio or cunninlingus are. Subject to the normal variations in preference, it's a variety of sex that's as valid and worthwhile as any other.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:42 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

the argument that handjobs are inherently unfun and redundant, as exemplified by corb's comment, is just plain wrong.

Mmmm, I think you're both right, actually.

I can see what corb's saying that if you're giving someone a hand job, but it's been, like, 10 minutes and it seems like you've hit a plateau, that can get a little...dull for the person giving the job. By then you've usually changed your technique up a little, your arm is starting to ache some, and....yeah.

But that's not something inherant to hand jobs. Any sex act that is more one-way - oral sex, manual manipulation, etc. - can get a little old if you just go on for a while and the person receiving seems to have hit some kind of plateau that's going on and on and on. I've been lucky in that the few times this has happened, the guy in question often will cut in and say "you're doing great and I'm loving this, but I don't think I'm gonna get off this way," and they give me the option to stop. Sometimes I do - sometimes I don't. But having that feedback is really helpful.

So I think you're right in that there is no one specific act that is more or less guaranteed to generate tedium - but corb's right in that that kind of tedium can happen if you have been working on someone for a while and seem to have hit some kind of plateau and you're wondering "wait, is this doing anything?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:58 AM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

Since then, I've never had one without at least wondering how bored my partner was.

Do...do you just sit there in silence?

It is not a skill that is useful to develop

What is wrong with you people

Did I fall into the bizarro universe or something
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:13 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Do...do you just sit there in silence?

I like to do dramatic readings from Blackstone's Commentaries.
posted by elizardbits at 8:33 AM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

I have to admit that I can't recall a single morning that I have woken up and thought Maybe I'll give a guy a hand job today. That's true for other acts that my (nonexistent) partner or some random fellow might enjoy.

If this article were written by a guy, about not enjoying giving his female partner sexy fun times, it wouldn't be an fpp. But who wants to be in a relationship with a partner who doesn't enjoy giving you sexy fun times? Sure, there are acts some of us just don't have in our personal repertoire, but sheesh.
posted by theora55 at 8:34 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Do...do you just sit there in silence?

Some people really indeed do react to any kind of sexual act being performed upon them with total silence and only minimal facial response. There are most likely valid and justifiable reasons for that, but it drives me kind of nuts, yeah.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Puttin' the Vulcan Death Grip on me!
posted by mfu at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2013

dr_dank: "codswallop: Nothin' magical about playin' with yourself.

Looks like you haven't read the right Harry Potter fan fiction."

While in the actual movie...
posted by IAmBroom at 9:05 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: too many lines in this thread to choose from
posted by theora55 at 9:11 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Look, it just takes a little practice. It's not hard.

Well, it could be....

Anyhow Garfunkle & Oates are the bee's knees.
posted by mule98J at 9:19 AM on September 24, 2013

jenfullmoon: "I can sort of understand her logic (the angle, not being a pro at it compared to the guy), but I suspect the whole thing of a man getting beaten off by a woman is that he isn't doing all the work for once.

I dunno, I still think it's weird that someone came up with shoving faces into genitals. That to me is weirder. But then again, there are so many weird things one can do with another's body."

All I can say is it is always better if it isn't always SELF-gratification. And, even if it is, having someone else there is all kinds of more fun...
posted by Samizdata at 9:22 AM on September 24, 2013

"I can see what corb's saying that if you're giving someone a hand job, but it's been, like, 10 minutes and it seems like you've hit a plateau, that can get a little...dull for the person giving the job. By then you've usually changed your technique up a little, your arm is starting to ache some, and....yeah."

Right, but as you point out, this can happen with most anything in sex. Including intercourse.

And fellatio and cunninlingus are both kind of notorious in this respect, more than manual stuff, because you can really find your jaw and other muscles becoming painfully sore during extended oral sex where your partner is stuck in a plateau. For people on antidepressants, this is not uncommon even for the most otherwise stimulating acts and can be a serious problem for their partners.

I really think a lot of the anti-handjob sentiment is originating from the mistaken assumption, explicit in the linked piece, that the handjob is in some way a low-interest, mundane sex act. That assumption in combination with the "he's an expert at doing this to himself" and "it can be boring" are what's giving this argument force. But the latter two things are either fallacious or equally true about other sex acts, so I think the argument relies upon the presence of that assumption that it's inherently inferior in some sense.

And it is inferior ... for some people. Just like anything can be a lesser liked or unliked sex act for any given person.

But manual stimulation isn't inherently inferior; it's not inferior for everyone. For example, there's a trade-off with oral sex: intense physical intimacy, but lessened intimacy with regard to communication and eye-contact. So it's both more intimate and less intimate. Manual sex allows the asymmetric "focus on one person's stimulation" value that oral sex does, while allowing for much more eye-contact and communication. Or, alternatively, it can even be unusually disconnected, with the partner behind and no eye-contact or communication, which can have a desired erotic character all its own.

I really think there's some underestimation here of the erotic possibilities of manual stimulation, male and female alike. It's my understanding that lesbian sex is unusually hand-focused, the hand is in some real sense a sex organ for many. And that makes a lot of sense for everyone — our hands in some sense embody our selves. That's why deliberate touching of someone with our hands is very intimate, our hands embody both our will and one of our primary sensory interfaces with reality. When we touch something with our hands, that act is both an expression of our raw will and forms a direct connection between what we touch and our psyche. So it has deep power sexually, in respects that are parallel to the deep power of oral sexual touch.

And I think it must be the case that everyone is already aware of this — the touch of our hands is a fundamental aspect of sex, from beginning to end. Your partner's hand and fingers on the back of your neck, holding your hand, on your thigh or your lips, this has erotic power. So why wouldn't there be a particular and compelling eroticism involved with someone's touch and extended genital stimulation with their hands?

I really think that the handjob, and the equivalent for women, should be understood as being comparable and parallel to oral sex. They are special kinds of sex, in their asymmetry and particular intimacy and psychological implications, and are valuable and potent pieces of the sexual repertoire.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:25 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

So basically you agree. Yay!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:27 AM on September 24, 2013

I do love frise salad though.
posted by Lutoslawski at 9:35 AM on September 24, 2013

It's possible, though, that believing you're not an expert at something is what makes you not like giving them, because why go through that performance anxiety and self-doubt.

I think that's what makes me the saddest, though.

We're not talking about singing an opera aria, here. It's a fairly simple task, low-pressure, generally done in the presence of only one other person. And that person is someone who is supposed to care deeply about you, and is in the middle of getting a fucking handjob for chrissakes.

It makes me sad that so many women carry around so much self-doubt, in general, about their ability to just be a person. It's yet another thing that women are supposed to think is wrong with them at all times. What if I'm not any good at sex?

Again, not saying you must like giving handjobs or there's something wrong with you. The pressure built up around whether you're "good enough" at them is just sad, to me.

And again I will freely admit to sometimes framing things this way, myself.
posted by Sara C. at 9:38 AM on September 24, 2013 [5 favorites]

Also, who the fuck gives handjobs to completion?
posted by Sara C. at 9:39 AM on September 24, 2013

I do love frise salad though

WHAT no. This is easily the most depraved and dissolute comment in the entire thread.
posted by elizardbits at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

who the fuck gives handjobs to completion?

who the fuck doesn't?
posted by jessamyn at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2013 [6 favorites]

Also, who the fuck gives handjobs to completion?

It's called high school and it's been a while.
posted by elizardbits at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2013

"So basically you agree. Yay!"

I agree with you. :) I infer that corb's argument is that the tedium is specific to the handjob, which is something I don't agree with.

I'm more interested in Sara C's observation. On the one hand, I think that it makes sense that one would worry about one's "competence" at one of these asymmetric sex acts. It makes sense to worry about "competence" in sex generally ... but, for example, when it's oral sex that's not sixty-nine, then it has particular urgency.

On the other hand, there's clearly some inequality between the sexes about this sort of thing. Women do, or are taught to, worry more about their sexual competency than men do, and this is clearly because of sexism and the culturally embedded notion that women exist for their sexual utility, creative and procreative, to men.

This sexual anxiety is, in my limited observation as a man, pretty common for women, if anecdotes and women's magazines are any indication. It's not nearly so common for men. And I'm conflicted about that. Part of me think that men should be more anxious about their sexual competency — my impression is that men are more likely to be obliviously self-confident though in reality inept. Some more worry about how much they're satisfying their partners might be corrective. But on the other hand, I think that anxiety about sexual competence is generally a destructive thing and should be discouraged wherever and whenever it appears. I guess I mostly think there should be more open, frank, and productive communication between partners because that would go a long way toward solving all these problems related to sexual anxiety.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:44 AM on September 24, 2013

whyareyouatriangle: "sometimes I put the dishes in the dishwasher, sometimes I wash them by hand"

Y'all are making me bust up very loudly and very painfully... (Deity of your choice, my ribs are killing me right now) so let me ruin the mood with a vary bad, but appropriate joke...

A newly married couple is not entirely comfortable about sex, so the wife suggests calling it "washing machine) as they don't own one and use the local laundromat.

One night, the husband's feeling needy of, ahem, laundry, so he rolls over to her and whispers "Washing machine?" in her ear. She's had a long, busy, tiring day and is SO not thinking of housework, nudge nudge wink wink.

He starts caressing her, kissing the back of her neck, and rubbing up against her. He finally whispers again, breath hot and moist against her ear, "Washing machine?"

Again she declines, so he gets up and heads in to the bathroom for a while.

When he returns, she feels guilty about forgoing domestic duties, so she rolls over and says, quasi-seductively, "Washing machine?"

He looks at her and says, "Nah. It was a small load so I did it by hand...:

I'll be here all week! Take care of your waitstaff, since they take care of you! Be good to each other everyone, and GOOD NIGHT MEFI! [drops mic]
posted by Samizdata at 9:45 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Mitheral: "elizardbits: "what constitutes a fancy handjob though"

Elbow length silk gloves?"

A top hat. And if the male recipient is less than well endowed, opera glasses.

And YES, I REALIZE I MISSED A QUOTE MARK IN MY LAST POST TOO LATE TO EDIT IT! So sue me. I'm not refunding you for your ticket...
posted by Samizdata at 9:51 AM on September 24, 2013

The joke is actually better with the missing quote mark.
posted by marienbad at 10:03 AM on September 24, 2013

Also, who the fuck gives handjobs to completion?

* raises hand *

* but not a recently-occupied hand, ifyouknowwhatimean *
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:05 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

"Some people really indeed do react to any kind of sexual act being performed upon them with total silence and only minimal facial response. There are most likely valid and justifiable reasons for that, but it drives me kind of nuts, yeah."

That's more a male thing, isn't it?

I think I'm pretty expressive with my face during sex, but I'm not very vocal. In the last fifteen years or so, I've become more aware of how (generally) more vocal women are during sex and how that makes it more enjoyable for them, with the implication that it could make it more enjoyable for me.

But it requires me to surmount some weird psychological barrier that I don't quite understand. For example, I do have a tendency to be quite vocal during orgasm from fellatio — I'm not sure why that's the exception, but it's probably because those are the most intense orgasms I experience and also, well, I think I'm motivated to be especially expressive to (truthfully) make it clear to my partner that her effort is greatly appreciated. But here's the thing: I always feel vaguely uneasy with the vocalization afterwards. It's a little bit like shame, but not exactly ... it feels like I made myself uncomfortably vulnerable in some respect?

And this has to go back to social messaging about sex and gender roles. Am I mistaken to think that there's a social expectation, somehow promulgated, that women "lose control" during good sex and this is demonstrated vocally while, in contrast, there's no such expectation for men? And just in general is this related to the social expectation that men are less emotionally expressive and available?

I can certainly see how, with a closed-off, inexpressive male partner, a handjob would be among the most disconnected, unfun, and even unpleasant sex acts. That's probably almost as true for fellatio, too, right?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:06 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Y'all are making me bust up very loudly and very painfully... (Deity of your choice, my ribs are killing me right now) so let me ruin the mood with a vary bad, but appropriate joke...

And you've just reminded me of an actual "Life In These United States" story I read once, concerning a couple where the wife usually did the dishes, by hand as they didn't have a dishwasher. And one night after dinner and dishwashing she was chilling on the couch and he started nibbling on her ear - and when she asked what was up he said "I'm just trying to turn on the dishwasher."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:07 AM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Hell, even self-administered ones can be quite fun in the right situation. I used to date a woman who loved the idea of watching me rub one off in a moderately exhibitionist fashion. We would sometimes disappear for lunch together (we were coworkers) and tool off somewhere isolated. She would lean over and we would make out a bit and then she would suggest it and there it went. I think she liked it because, although it meant no real contact for her, at least one of us got off and it is SOOOO easy to get composed afterwards for the guy.
posted by Samizdata at 10:08 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Ivan Fyodorovich: ""Some people really indeed do react to any kind of sexual act being performed upon them with total silence and only minimal facial response. There are most likely valid and justifiable reasons for that, but it drives me kind of nuts, yeah."

That's more a male thing, isn't it?

I think I'm pretty expressive with my face during sex, but I'm not very vocal. In the last fifteen years or so, I've become more aware of how (generally) more vocal women are during sex and how that makes it more enjoyable for them, with the implication that it could make it more enjoyable for me.

But it requires me to surmount some weird psychological barrier that I don't quite understand. For example, I do have a tendency to be quite vocal during orgasm from fellatio — I'm not sure why that's the exception, but it's probably because those are the most intense orgasms I experience and also, well, I think I'm motivated to be especially expressive to (truthfully) make it clear to my partner that her effort is greatly appreciated. But here's the thing: I always feel vaguely uneasy with the vocalization afterwards. It's a little bit like shame, but not exactly ... it feels like I made myself uncomfortably vulnerable in some respect?

And this has to go back to social messaging about sex and gender roles. Am I mistaken to think that there's a social expectation, somehow promulgated, that women "lose control" during good sex and this is demonstrated vocally while, in contrast, there's no such expectation for men? And just in general is this related to the social expectation that men are less emotionally expressive and available?

I can certainly see how, with a closed-off, inexpressive male partner, a handjob would be among the most disconnected, unfun, and even unpleasant sex acts. That's probably almost as true for fellatio, too, right?"

And now we reach one of the things on my bucket list - orgasm due to fellatio. Just once, Deity of your choice, PLEASE?
posted by Samizdata at 10:09 AM on September 24, 2013

It can be very, very sexy to watch your partner get themselves off, and it can be very, very sexy to be watched by a partner when you get yourself off.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:10 AM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

"And now we reach one of the things on my bucket list - orgasm due to fellatio. Just once, Deity of your choice, PLEASE?"

Well, if this is a problem for you, I have some sex therapist advice (though IANAST): your frustration and desire for fellatio orgasm is probably at this point a big part of what's getting in the way.

So one thing you can do, which is the same thing people do for impotency and anorgasmia and related, is to progressively explore fellatio without being goal-oriented and with no expectation of orgasm. Probably you should begin with some sex activity that's just fellatio with no expectation of orgasm. Like, a few minutes, then do something else (non-sexual). And sort of progress in this activity over time, all the while being pretty rigorous about not doing it with the expectation that this time you'll come. This will be much harder to do when you find yourself very close to orgasm, you'll be "spectatoring" and otherwise distracting yourself from the actual experience because you'll be thinking "okay, now finally this is it!", which will interfere with it. And switching to intercourse or whatever would be bad, because you'll be training yourself (as you probably already have been) that you don't come from fellatio, only by something else after fellatio. So you'd need to just quit having sex entirely each time when you reach that point.

Which may sound really crazy, because men tend to think about sex as being all about the orgasm. Generally, it's very helpful for everyone to explore enjoying sex outside the context of orgasm. But this is particularly true for those who are anorgasmic in any respect. For them, it's very helpful to deliberately, intentionally, explore sex without any expectation of orgasm. Just take the weight of that expectation totally out of the equation. If you do that, you'll find that orgasm inserts itself all on its own, eventually.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:24 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I do love frise salad though.

But it's gotta be classic-style with the bacon and the poached egg.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:36 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I don't necessarily expect sex partners to be vocal, but if it's a face-to-face situation like some handjobs, how about accepting some light making out and other kinds of fondling? That's the part I sort of don't understand when people say that handjobs are particularly awkward, or that guys can do it better themselves - there's a bunch of other fun activities that can occur during a handjob (many of them which are difficult to do during a blowjob or PIV sex) that shouldn't be ignored.
posted by muddgirl at 10:51 AM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

AFAIC there is only one rule when it comes to sex: do what makes you and your partner get off (metaphorically or literally).
posted by ersatz at 11:15 AM on September 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

who the fuck doesn't?

I've always been more inclined to switch it up.
posted by Sara C. at 11:32 AM on September 24, 2013

Who the doesn't fuck?
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:14 PM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I'm just gonna drop this musical number here with only the warning that it does indeed involve a chicken.

I thought for sure the Lyle Lovett song would be on the other end of that link. No chickens, but actual chicken noises.
posted by phearlez at 1:44 PM on September 24, 2013

Ivan Fyodorovich: "It's okay to not like giving handjobs [...] but the argument that handjobs are inherently unfun and redundant, as exemplified by corb's comment, is just plain wrong."

Agreed. If you don't enjoy giving handjobs and find it a meh thing to do during sexytimes, okay, whatever, to each his/her own. But this posture of "I'm gonna cut through the BS and tell you the truth" might work in standup where the delivery is more nuanced, but in commentary/blog posts/columns, it's more like a grownup version of schoolyard misinformation.

Her discussion of hand jobs strikes me as juvenile not because it's a "beginner" act, but because it perpetuates the all-too-common presentation of sex as something composed of individually identifiable, discrete activities which have agreed-upon parameters and rules for qualification.

Imagining those definitions is like writing a rule book for lousy sex:

1. Giving a Hand Job is distinguished from other types of touching of the penis by sustaining an up-and-down motion on the shaft with a closed hand for a requisite quantity of full-length strokes.

2. Giving a Blow Job requires similar guidelines to be followed, substituting mouth for hand. The use of tongue is technically optional but strongly encouraged. IMPORTANT: Use of an extended tongue alone may not qualify the act as a verified Blow Job unless the lips encircle the penis and travel the length of the shaft in the characteristic "head bob" motion for a sufficient number of attempted strokes.

NOTE: During a legitimate Blow Job, if the hand is concurrently used in a manner identical to the above definition of a Hand Job, this shall not be considered a separate act of Hand Jobbing, but shall instead fall with an accepted definition of Blow Job. (See Appendix A: Qualitative Hierarchical Tables.) .)
posted by desuetude at 2:49 PM on September 24, 2013 [5 favorites]

I infer that corb's argument is that the tedium is specific to the handjob, which is something I don't agree with.

Well, as I define the handjob, yes - which honestly, like someone said above, hasn't needed to be refined for about the last ten years because no one but no one has asked for this - it is the up-and-down repetitive motion, absent any other stimulation, to orgasm.

So I find that particular definition of handjob boring - it is a repetitive motion that actually requires a surprising amount of arm/wrist strength, it doesn't allow you to innovate, and because the definition is "to completion", it keeps you there focusing on it and thinking "For fuck's sake, when the fuck is he going to come already, so I can move on to something more interesting?"

Now there's lots of hands-on-penis that I think is awesome and innovative and fun and sexy and loving, but I wouldn't call that stuff a handjob, especially because it's not a discrete act, it's seamless and part of the fun sexytimes.

Actually, thinking about it for the very first time, it occurs that a lot of the tedium and definition is in the name. "Hand job". It is something that is billed as a discrete work act, and thus must be done efficiently. And who wants to do something that sounds like efficient, tedious work?
posted by corb at 3:19 PM on September 24, 2013

Who the doesn't fuck?

*starts to raise hand, reconsiders, realizes it's too late, lowers hand from halfway position*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 3:23 PM on September 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

I'm sure I'm not alone, but most definitely in the minority when I say that I prefer a good handjob to sex at times. In a way its much more personal, and requires a lot more attention on the part of the administrator. There are no teeth to be concerned about, and how long you last isn't even a factor. You can just relax and enjoy yourself. I never come as hard as I do when someone else is manually stimulating me.

The author suffers from the perspective of "oh, I can't do it as well as someone who does it all the time so why should I even bother." Apply that to art, or anything else for that matter and it becomes appallingly clear how full of shit that statement is. Sometimes a different take makes all the difference.

As to the matter of her partner not being as good as digital stimulation as she is... Either she needs to be more vocal as to what does it for her, or her partner needs to be more open to taking suggestions.
posted by BishopFistwick at 4:16 PM on September 24, 2013

Actually, thinking about it for the very first time, it occurs that a lot of the tedium and definition is in the name. "Hand job". It is something that is billed as a discrete work act, and thus must be done efficiently.

I don't think it's all in the name, or otherwise "blow job" would have the same stigma. I've got to think it's movies like Animal House that portray handjobs as boring, soulless, one-sided acts. Or porn clips that, by necessity of the art form, have to show bodies which are disconnected so that there's room for the camera and the audience.
posted by muddgirl at 4:29 PM on September 24, 2013

No, this is the song/video you've been looking for.

I love this thread so hard.
posted by rhiannonstone at 4:40 PM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Now there's lots of hands-on-penis that I think is awesome and innovative and fun and sexy and loving, but I wouldn't call that stuff a handjob, especially because it's not a discrete act, it's seamless and part of the fun sexytimes.

Erm, why wouldn't you call that a hand job? If your hand and his penis are the main players, that's what makes it a hand job in my book, not the action in question. Just like a "blow job" involves a whole hell of a lot more than just one set specific action.

If your hand is doing things to a guy's dick and he likes it, it's a hand job. Thus says me.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:14 PM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Although I should add that you should make sure it is his dick. I once spent five minutes fondling a lump in a guy's pants when we were in the back seat of a cab before he finally summoned the tact to inform me "uh, that's actually my wallet." That maybe WASN'T a hand job...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:16 PM on September 24, 2013 [6 favorites]

No True Handjob.
posted by kafziel at 5:24 PM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Best sockpuppet name ever.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 5:48 PM on September 24, 2013

EmpressCallipygos: "Although I should add that you should make sure it is his dick. I once spent five minutes fondling a lump in a guy's pants when we were in the back seat of a cab before he finally summoned the tact to inform me "uh, that's actually my wallet." That maybe WASN'T a hand job..."

I would call that a "cash job" actually.
posted by Samizdata at 6:05 PM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

I once spent five minutes fondling a lump in a guy's pants

Oh man this actually happened to me, but I was the one being fondled two or three inches to the right of my vulva.

I actually moved the person's hand to the right spot and whispered "It's over here."

The response?

"I knew that."

Bullshit.
posted by Sara C. at 6:09 PM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

Reading through this thread led to some mental tangents that led me to google various fairly mainstream sex stuff just to see what the internet had to say, which led to some Yahoo! Answers threads about sex-related stuff, which led to HOLY SHIT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE GETTING SEX ADVICE FROM YAHOO! ANSWERS.
posted by COBRA! at 6:11 PM on September 24, 2013 [4 favorites]

Plus, I must confess, back when I was married, there were times I was too tired from work for supersexyfuntimes, so I would happily offer the ex-missus a vigorous and focused fingering as opposed to saying no altogether. (Leave it to me to find a woman that doesn't really like receiving oral... Sigh...)
posted by Samizdata at 6:18 PM on September 24, 2013

HOLY SHIT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE GETTING SEX ADVICE FROM YAHOO! ANSWERS.

But did you learn how babby is formed?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 6:28 PM on September 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

With a lot of cutesy "hoo-hoo"-style euphemisms, it seems.
posted by COBRA! at 6:33 PM on September 24, 2013

This is a great thread. I would jack each and everyone one of you off.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:36 PM on September 24, 2013 [2 favorites]

Although I should add that you should make sure it is his dick. I once spent five minutes fondling a lump in a guy's pants when we were in the back seat of a cab before he finally summoned the tact to inform me "uh, that's actually my wallet." That maybe WASN'T a hand job...

"Is that a roll of quarters in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

"Well, I AM glad to see you..."

"Heh, heh, heh. I thought so. Hey, wait a minute, this IS a roll of quarters!"

"It's not really an either/or kind of question, honey. You know it's laundry day tomorrow."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:20 PM on September 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

"...so I would happily offer the ex-missus a vigorous and focused fingering as opposed to saying no altogether."

I think that's really the right attitude (assuming your partner was okay with this). What I mean is that I think that people have unrealistic, idealistic notions about sex that are sort of in evidence in this thread. There's a bias against anything that's less than a full-on mutual orgasmic journey of wonder when, really, there's a huge variety of sex in practice and theory and that's a good thing. Asymmetric get-your-horny-partner-off-quickly is totally fine (as long as this isn't the norm, of course).
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:26 PM on September 24, 2013 [3 favorites]

Erm, why wouldn't you call that a hand job?

Oh god, the handjob has been in the house all along!
posted by corb at 8:39 PM on September 24, 2013 [1 favorite]

Maybe it would help to think of it not as a job, but as a calling.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 4:21 AM on September 25, 2013 [8 favorites]

"Maybe it would help to think of it not as a job, but as a calling."

This puts a whole new twist on job fairs.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:45 AM on September 27, 2013

I bet her right arms is twice as big as her left.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:59 AM on September 27, 2013

as I define the handjob, yes - [...] - it is the up-and-down repetitive motion, absent any other stimulation, to orgasm.

Not all men like their hand jobs this way. In fact, not all men masturbate this way.

Someone I know (ahem) tells me her lover prefers tickling or rubbing finger motions. In fact, you could say that he likes having his bean flicked. This makes him pretty good at doing the same for his female partner... or so she tells me.
posted by Too-Ticky at 1:11 AM on September 28, 2013

corb: "Erm, why wouldn't you call that a hand job?

Oh god, the handjob has been in the house all along!"

Yes, the stroking is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE!
posted by Samizdata at 2:59 PM on September 30, 2013

Ivan Fyodorovich: ""...so I would happily offer the ex-missus a vigorous and focused fingering as opposed to saying no altogether."

I think that's really the right attitude (assuming your partner was okay with this). What I mean is that I think that people have unrealistic, idealistic notions about sex that are sort of in evidence in this thread. There's a bias against anything that's less than a full-on mutual orgasmic journey of wonder when, really, there's a huge variety of sex in practice and theory and that's a good thing. Asymmetric get-your-horny-partner-off-quickly is totally fine (as long as this isn't the norm, of course)."

It wasn't. We just had the classic issue of me working nights and her working days so there were times she was hot to trot and I was exhausted or vice versa.
posted by Samizdata at 3:00 PM on September 30, 2013