You say Canamerica, I say Americanada
October 4, 2013 2:47 PM Subscribe
What is the case for Canada merging with the USA? With the heady 200th anniversary of the War of 1812 still fresh in our memories, Dual Citizen and Editor at Large of leading Canadian newspaper The National Post, Diane Francis, has written a book proposing "the merger of the century" describing five models for how these two great nations could join as one, and estimating Canada's resource value to the US at about C$17 trillion (US$16.5 trillion). Reactions have been mixed.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
Does it come with single-payer health care?
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 2:49 PM on October 4, 2013 [33 favorites]
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 2:49 PM on October 4, 2013 [33 favorites]
Montreal can be the sixth borough if they'd like.
posted by griphus at 2:50 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by griphus at 2:50 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
If our merged state gets new currency with Ricky, Julian, Bubbles and Lahey on it, I say let's get 'er done.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:51 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:51 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
It would probably be OK as long as they didn't mind spending a century or so as a commonwealth territory, like Puerto Rico, before becoming states.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:52 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 2:52 PM on October 4, 2013
Canada is our biggest park!
posted by Max Power at 2:52 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Max Power at 2:52 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
How about no.
posted by humanfont at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2013 [28 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 2:53 PM on October 4, 2013 [28 favorites]
Are there really a lot of people seeking North American unification? We get along pretty well apart, so to speak, so what's the problem?
posted by Yakuman at 2:55 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Yakuman at 2:55 PM on October 4, 2013
Isn't Canada technically still property of the British monarchy? Has anyone asked the UK what they might think about losing yet another colony?
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
A parliamentary form of government is looking mighty good this week.
posted by zompist at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [18 favorites]
posted by zompist at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [18 favorites]
we already have tim hortons in my town, what's the point?
posted by pyramid termite at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
Sorry, my bad, it's nor paywalled per se-- but you have to sign up for a free account to read it.
posted by threeants at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by threeants at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013
Give the CBP less to do? Yes, please.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:57 PM on October 4, 2013
If our merged state gets new currency with Ricky, Julian, Bubbles and Lahey on it, I say let's get 'er done.
Give me Gordon Downey or give me death.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Give me Gordon Downey or give me death.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
And hell, why stop there? Let's gobble up Mexico too - make a concrete reality of NAFTA, and solve the "border problems" as well!
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:00 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:00 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Are there really a lot of people seeking North American unification?
Nope.
posted by asnider at 3:04 PM on October 4, 2013
Nope.
posted by asnider at 3:04 PM on October 4, 2013
What a splendid idea! There will have to be a few cultural changes though. We shall begin with correcting your football rules, move on to providing single payer health care, declare marriage as a civil right, and then take away your guns. Finally, we will introduce you to decent beer and hang a picture of your new Queen in all public buildings.
Or perhaps we should reverse the order of those actions.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 3:04 PM on October 4, 2013 [43 favorites]
Or perhaps we should reverse the order of those actions.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 3:04 PM on October 4, 2013 [43 favorites]
I used to work on political campaigns, and, starting around 2006, whenever there was phonebanking or doorknocking, someone would always get one of those "North American Government" consiparacy nuts. Always. In 2008, they were usually Ron Paul supporters.
Those guys (they're always men) were usually worked up about the idea of a secret, fascist highway plot (ie, a plan to build a highway connecting the three countries). Seriously, no one let them read this.
posted by lunasol at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2013
Those guys (they're always men) were usually worked up about the idea of a secret, fascist highway plot (ie, a plan to build a highway connecting the three countries). Seriously, no one let them read this.
posted by lunasol at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2013
Merge? Wouldn't that involve giving Canada some actual political clout? Why not just continue as is, quietly stripping our resources as necessary and making us dance to your tune when needed?
posted by mazola at 3:06 PM on October 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
posted by mazola at 3:06 PM on October 4, 2013 [12 favorites]
I think this happened on Parks and Recreation last night.
(For the record, I think we in the U.S. are the debt-ridden Eagleton assholes in this situation.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
(For the record, I think we in the U.S. are the debt-ridden Eagleton assholes in this situation.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:07 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Are there really a lot of people seeking North American unification?
Only the occasional National Post writer, it seems. 15 years ago, with a thriving US economy and an enormous flow of goods between the countries, I can see why a currency unification or even a political unification might have looked attractive to some Canadians. But the last 10 years? You've got to be pretty attached to that hobby horse to still be riding it.
posted by figurant at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Only the occasional National Post writer, it seems. 15 years ago, with a thriving US economy and an enormous flow of goods between the countries, I can see why a currency unification or even a political unification might have looked attractive to some Canadians. But the last 10 years? You've got to be pretty attached to that hobby horse to still be riding it.
posted by figurant at 3:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Are there really a lot of people seeking North American unification?
Just the companies that dictate editorial policy at the national post. It's seen as a shortcut for gutting every social policy that Canadians have fought for.
posted by srboisvert at 3:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Just the companies that dictate editorial policy at the national post. It's seen as a shortcut for gutting every social policy that Canadians have fought for.
posted by srboisvert at 3:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Though this does make me giggle to imagine the incredible hissyfit the Republicans would throw. Imagine dumping about 10 million of what they consider hardcore communists into the American political landscape!
posted by srboisvert at 3:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 3:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Isn't Canada technically still property of the British monarchy? Has anyone asked the UK what they might think about losing yet another colony?
No, we are an independent country. We are, in fact, the first modern colony to secede from our mother country by simply asking politely, rather than going through all the fuss and bother of a rebellion. We are ruled by the Queen of Canada, not the Queen of the UK. Just because she happens to be the monarch for some other people doesn't mean that those other people own us. In her official capacity, she is many queens that all happen to inhabit one person.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 3:13 PM on October 4, 2013 [58 favorites]
No, we are an independent country. We are, in fact, the first modern colony to secede from our mother country by simply asking politely, rather than going through all the fuss and bother of a rebellion. We are ruled by the Queen of Canada, not the Queen of the UK. Just because she happens to be the monarch for some other people doesn't mean that those other people own us. In her official capacity, she is many queens that all happen to inhabit one person.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 3:13 PM on October 4, 2013 [58 favorites]
It should be noted that the National Post (some of my friends call it the "Notional Past") is a conservative slanting national paper. That is, it doesn't like many of the social policies and programs that make Canada what it is, and I don't think someone like Diane Francis would be touting this idea with the thought of bringing Canadian style social reforms to the US, but rather the other way around.
posted by nubs at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by nubs at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Those guys (they're always men) were usually worked up about the idea of a secret, fascist highway plot (ie, a plan to build a highway connecting the three countries).
There....already....is one.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
There....already....is one.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Someone writes a book exactly like this every decade or so.
I don't understand why. It's a fucking idiotic topic.
Mind you, idiots do buy them some books.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2013
I don't understand why. It's a fucking idiotic topic.
Mind you, idiots do buy them some books.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2013
There....already....is one.
I know! But I don't think these guys do.
posted by lunasol at 3:19 PM on October 4, 2013
I know! But I don't think these guys do.
posted by lunasol at 3:19 PM on October 4, 2013
We shall begin with correcting your football rules,
no, you'll keep playing hockey and you'll like it
move on to providing single payer health care, declare marriage as a civil right, and then take away your guns.
we can talk about that
Finally, we will introduce you to decent beer
bell's and founder's piss all over molson's and labatt's
and hang a picture of your new Queen in all public buildings.
i don't want to see miley fucking cyrus every time i go to the post office, thank you
posted by pyramid termite at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
no, you'll keep playing hockey and you'll like it
move on to providing single payer health care, declare marriage as a civil right, and then take away your guns.
we can talk about that
Finally, we will introduce you to decent beer
bell's and founder's piss all over molson's and labatt's
and hang a picture of your new Queen in all public buildings.
i don't want to see miley fucking cyrus every time i go to the post office, thank you
posted by pyramid termite at 3:22 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
I'm trying to imagine this future where the Chinese and Russians somehow take over our sealanes, but it's difficult. And it's fundamentally aggravating that Diane Francis thinks the solution to Canada being dominated by two foreign countries is to be absorbed into another.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Kevin Street at 3:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Canada is content with the United States military providing its national defense - no need to get all unification-y.
Although I suppose it works out as Canada is the #1 supplier of oil to the United States. Guns for oil / modern love, no?
posted by four panels at 3:24 PM on October 4, 2013
Although I suppose it works out as Canada is the #1 supplier of oil to the United States. Guns for oil / modern love, no?
posted by four panels at 3:24 PM on October 4, 2013
Francis was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1946
So that explains that.
YANKEE GO HOME
posted by Sys Rq at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
So that explains that.
YANKEE GO HOME
posted by Sys Rq at 3:25 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
I have literally never ever heard any Canadian ever espouse any such thing. Ever.
posted by sweet mister at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by sweet mister at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
She may be a dual citizen, but Francis has been a member of the Canadian intelligentsia for years. In the US she's little known.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 3:27 PM on October 4, 2013
Greg_Ace: "And hell, why stop there? Let's gobble up Mexico too - make a concrete reality of NAFTA, and solve the "border problems" as well!"
On the one hand, anything to troll Alex Jones would be great. On the other hand, I just wouldn't wish the US on Canada or Mexico anymore than they already have to suffer us.
posted by symbioid at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
On the one hand, anything to troll Alex Jones would be great. On the other hand, I just wouldn't wish the US on Canada or Mexico anymore than they already have to suffer us.
posted by symbioid at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
bell's and founder's piss all over molson's and labatt's
Oh dear, is that the swill people imagine when we talk about Canadian beer?! Oh, we have much work to do — yes, much work.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Oh dear, is that the swill people imagine when we talk about Canadian beer?! Oh, we have much work to do — yes, much work.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:28 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Finally, we will introduce you to decent beer and hang a picture of your new Queen in all public buildings.
There are a lot of ways Canada is superior to the U.S. in my opinion, but with the explosion of microbreweries in the U.S. in the last couple of decades, I don't think it's fair to say Canada has the better beer anymore. I'll take a Stone IPA over a Molson any night of the week, for example.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 3:29 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
There are a lot of ways Canada is superior to the U.S. in my opinion, but with the explosion of microbreweries in the U.S. in the last couple of decades, I don't think it's fair to say Canada has the better beer anymore. I'll take a Stone IPA over a Molson any night of the week, for example.
posted by Thoughtcrime at 3:29 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Stop pretending Molson is beer! Auuugh.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2013 [9 favorites]
well, alright, fin du monde is quite good ... but you really should know that american beer has improved a lot in the past 20 years
posted by pyramid termite at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by pyramid termite at 3:30 PM on October 4, 2013
I think we can all agree that major brands are dubious, regardless of their country of origin. That's really all I have to say. Cheers.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:31 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:31 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
FUCK THAT SHIT -- PABST BLUE RIBBON!
posted by mazola at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by mazola at 3:32 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
Ask John Boehner how he would feel about another 20 million Democrat voters.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:34 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:34 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
From a Canadian standpoint, The USA is solidly friend zoned and we're not interested in taking our relationship any further. Sorry.
posted by rocket88 at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2013 [45 favorites]
posted by rocket88 at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2013 [45 favorites]
and then what's up with your lousy cigarettes? - export a's taste like a moose pissed all over the tobacco, rothchilds give me headaches and the only brand i could halfway stand was matinee's
by the way, do they still have schooner beer in the maritimes?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2013
by the way, do they still have schooner beer in the maritimes?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:35 PM on October 4, 2013
Hurrah for 1812 and all that, but realistically the reason the US never seized Canada is because it didn't need to, and still doesn't. They get all the natural resources they want from us for about the same price they'd pay if we were one country, and there's no political or economic instability that would cause refugee surges. If history had worked out slightly differently, Hawaii and Alaska might have become independent countries with a similar relationship to the US. But they were added in earlier times when "manifest destiny" was a national goal.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:41 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Kevin Street at 3:41 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Some people will do anything to avoid customs tax.
posted by double block and bleed at 3:42 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by double block and bleed at 3:42 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Nothing I love more than seeing my fellow Americans take Canadian stereotypes and turning it up to 11.
I got your back Canada when it comes to beer; if Americans can only name Molson's/Labatt's or a Unibroue brand at a stretch, that's their problem.
posted by Kitteh at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2013
I got your back Canada when it comes to beer; if Americans can only name Molson's/Labatt's or a Unibroue brand at a stretch, that's their problem.
posted by Kitteh at 3:43 PM on October 4, 2013
Nah, I think Canada will just wait until things go further south down south, and then just start to annex the bits of the US most like us.
Minnesota, the UP, Maine, the coastal North West. Eventually, we'll take Detroit again. People up here think it has a lot of potential!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Minnesota, the UP, Maine, the coastal North West. Eventually, we'll take Detroit again. People up here think it has a lot of potential!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
What the butts!? On behalf of Canadians who don't write for the National Post.. um, pass.
posted by jess at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by jess at 3:44 PM on October 4, 2013
She may be a dual citizen, but Francis has been a member of the Canadian intelligentsia for years. In the US she's little known.
She's closer to being a part of the Canadian nekulturny than the intelligentsia.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 3:45 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
She's closer to being a part of the Canadian nekulturny than the intelligentsia.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 3:45 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
They should definitely call it O.N.A.N.
posted by cell divide at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by cell divide at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
At least we would have a functioning government.
posted by double block and bleed at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by double block and bleed at 3:46 PM on October 4, 2013
As a Canadian who is married to an American and who has lived in the US most of his life I think I'm qualified to answer this question. I could see this working, maybe, if the Canadians each agreed to spend some of that half-million lump sum on a lobotomy, a lifetime supply of Prozac, and a few handguns.
posted by Killick at 3:47 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Killick at 3:47 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
Aren't we fucking-up Canada enough just by being in the same hemisphere?
posted by Thorzdad at 3:49 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 3:49 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
Hmm, Wikipedia says that Hawaii wasn't officially annexed by the United States until 1898. So I guess Alaska and Hawaii were added in two different waves of expansionism.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:50 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 3:50 PM on October 4, 2013
Fun facts:
Canada's population is less than California's. (34 vs 38 million)
~75% of canadians live within 100 miles of the US border.
Canada is slightly bigger but roughly the same size as the US (and China).
It doesn't seem like absorbing Canada would be a big deal, at least in terms of population. I think that the best deal for the US would be to pick up Canada entirely, and trade Texas to Mexico in exchange for Mexico's entire west coast.
posted by mullingitover at 3:51 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
Canada's population is less than California's. (34 vs 38 million)
~75% of canadians live within 100 miles of the US border.
Canada is slightly bigger but roughly the same size as the US (and China).
It doesn't seem like absorbing Canada would be a big deal, at least in terms of population. I think that the best deal for the US would be to pick up Canada entirely, and trade Texas to Mexico in exchange for Mexico's entire west coast.
posted by mullingitover at 3:51 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
So, I assume this means changing the current republic model for a proper democracy?
No?
Huh.
posted by clvrmnky at 3:51 PM on October 4, 2013
No?
Huh.
posted by clvrmnky at 3:51 PM on October 4, 2013
Eventually, we'll take Detroit again.
well, at least you'll finally have a decent hockey team
posted by pyramid termite at 3:54 PM on October 4, 2013 [17 favorites]
well, at least you'll finally have a decent hockey team
posted by pyramid termite at 3:54 PM on October 4, 2013 [17 favorites]
Robin Williams used to say that Canada was like a loft apartment over a really great party. "Keep it down, there, eh?" Now he says we're like a really nice apartment over a meth lab.
posted by sweet mister at 3:55 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by sweet mister at 3:55 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
It's more like a really well-organized grow-op above a meth lab.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 3:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [15 favorites]
Montreal can be the sixth borough if they'd like.
It's a little sad how much New Yorkers crave really good bagels, although yours are a very, very close second and nothing to be ashamed about.
posted by maudlin at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2013 [17 favorites]
It's a little sad how much New Yorkers crave really good bagels, although yours are a very, very close second and nothing to be ashamed about.
posted by maudlin at 3:59 PM on October 4, 2013 [17 favorites]
I read this article this morning and now I can't stop humming the theme to Fallout 3 for some reason.
posted by longdaysjourney at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by longdaysjourney at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2013
At least take Florida. It's already Southern Canadia during snowbird season, why not make it official? We will happily put up with* your grandparents going 35mph on the interstate if you hook us up with that sweet sweet health care.
*putting up with, in this circumstance, means limiting our grar to only swearing loudly with the windows up
posted by cmyk at 4:02 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
*putting up with, in this circumstance, means limiting our grar to only swearing loudly with the windows up
posted by cmyk at 4:02 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
well, at least you'll finally have a decent hockey team
Look, if we're going to get serious about moving in together, let's keep the cheap shots to a minimum, eh?
posted by nubs at 4:02 PM on October 4, 2013
Look, if we're going to get serious about moving in together, let's keep the cheap shots to a minimum, eh?
posted by nubs at 4:02 PM on October 4, 2013
Are you sure it's the bagels? I have my suspicions about them casting a covetous eye on the smoked meat...
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013
Isn't Canada technically still property of the British monarchy? Has anyone asked the UK what they might think about losing yet another colony?
Hello. A Brit here. And as I keep meeting Americans who assume I know the Queen or are related to her because I'm British, I'll speak on her behalf.
Yes, a sale of Canada to the USA would seem to be a good idea. The question is - what does Britain get in return? Could I suggest a fair price would consist of:
- (Timeshare) New England in the autumn, but you can have use of it for the other three seasons.
- The use of correct English e.g. from now on, start saying autumn instead of fall.
- In addition, correct English spelling e.g. colour, and pronounciation e.g. aluminium.
- Jimmy Carter.
- Air conditioning as standard, everywhere.
- Free water given without asking in restaurants and (important) free coffee refills.
- HBO.
- Sliders.
- Box Bridges.
- Baseball (willing to part-exchange for soccer - you are welcome to keep that).
- Decent meal portions.
- Debbie Gibson (personal choice).
- The American Gothic house.
- Feminism.
- The Appalachian Trail.
- Liberal arts colleges, especially Grinnell, Iowa.
- The Grand Canyon.
- Fruity Pebbles.
- Mountain Dew popcorn.
- The leg room in the seats of Amtrak passenger trains.
- American optimism.
- Betty White.
- Fireflies.
- Patriotic swimwear.
- Culvers.
- The Coen Brothers.
- MetaFilter.
posted by Wordshore at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Hello. A Brit here. And as I keep meeting Americans who assume I know the Queen or are related to her because I'm British, I'll speak on her behalf.
Yes, a sale of Canada to the USA would seem to be a good idea. The question is - what does Britain get in return? Could I suggest a fair price would consist of:
- (Timeshare) New England in the autumn, but you can have use of it for the other three seasons.
- The use of correct English e.g. from now on, start saying autumn instead of fall.
- In addition, correct English spelling e.g. colour, and pronounciation e.g. aluminium.
- Jimmy Carter.
- Air conditioning as standard, everywhere.
- Free water given without asking in restaurants and (important) free coffee refills.
- HBO.
- Sliders.
- Box Bridges.
- Baseball (willing to part-exchange for soccer - you are welcome to keep that).
- Decent meal portions.
- Debbie Gibson (personal choice).
- The American Gothic house.
- Feminism.
- The Appalachian Trail.
- Liberal arts colleges, especially Grinnell, Iowa.
- The Grand Canyon.
- Fruity Pebbles.
- Mountain Dew popcorn.
- The leg room in the seats of Amtrak passenger trains.
- American optimism.
- Betty White.
- Fireflies.
- Patriotic swimwear.
- Culvers.
- The Coen Brothers.
- MetaFilter.
posted by Wordshore at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [11 favorites]
Part if the problem now is that both our countries are too big and have distinct ideological and cultural regions. Living in British Columbia, I have much more in common with and spend more time in Washington and Oregon than in Quebec or the maritimes. I'm not interested in keeping Canada whole - it isn't realistic in the long term. Fuck Ontario. Fuck Quebec. They have no time for the west. I'd support a breakup of the continent into something closer to geographic and cultural realities. In my region, Cascadia seems logical. BC, WA, OR and ID. What a great place that would be.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by jimmythefish at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
This is brought up in one of the NP rebuttals, but: Canada would be a state (or a group of states) roughly the size of California, but bluer than any of the 50 states that now exist. In "if you could vote in the US, who would you vote for?" polls last time you guys had an election, our most typically conservative province, Alberta, supported Obama roughly as intensely as Vermont.
Formally annexing Canada would ensure no Republican presidents and a solid Democratic majority in both of your houses for at least a generation. Bearing that in mind, any sensible Republican would fight tooth and nail to maintain the two-very-friendly-independent-states-with-free-trade status quo. The fact that Francis simply hand-waves this away shows how very very poorly thought out her scheme is.
posted by erlking at 4:04 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Formally annexing Canada would ensure no Republican presidents and a solid Democratic majority in both of your houses for at least a generation. Bearing that in mind, any sensible Republican would fight tooth and nail to maintain the two-very-friendly-independent-states-with-free-trade status quo. The fact that Francis simply hand-waves this away shows how very very poorly thought out her scheme is.
posted by erlking at 4:04 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
OK, Mary Ellen, we'll share the bagels and smoked meat, and throw in some Nectar to sweeten the deal.
posted by maudlin at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by maudlin at 4:07 PM on October 4, 2013
What in the, for the love of all that is...just, NO. NO. A thousand times no.
Don't mess with my backup plan! ;)
posted by trackofalljades at 4:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Don't mess with my backup plan! ;)
posted by trackofalljades at 4:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
My. Dead. Body.
This would happen over it.
Now, I shall read what will no doubt be an entertaining thread.
posted by jokeefe at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
This would happen over it.
Now, I shall read what will no doubt be an entertaining thread.
posted by jokeefe at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
I also agree with jimmythefish. As a Newfoundlander, Canada has always seemed like a fairly arbitrary arrangement, a making-do compromise more than an actual country. But that is kind of its strength, and the main reason I would not want to see Canada cease to be. Nationalism is kind of more evil than good. If we've accidentally blundered into a chiller, more functional kind of EU arrangement, then I say we count ourselves lucky.
posted by erlking at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by erlking at 4:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
The question is - what does Britain get in return?
we'll give you washington d c
posted by pyramid termite at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
we'll give you washington d c
posted by pyramid termite at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
Maybe it would be like Puerto Rico, and we'd still have an internal legislature but no vote for President.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
“every Canadian would be entitled to a lump sum payment [from the United States] of $492,529”
Is that before or after paying their current debts? Not that it matters, they're still coming out way ahead. Mind you, by her reckoning, If I were Canadian, I'd be demanding my lump sum from my own government right now.
Instead what do I get?
Part if the problem now is that both our countries are too big and have distinct ideological and cultural regions.
Too big for what? And it's not as if both countries aren't already changing via immigration. What's a few more distinct regions?
posted by IndigoJones at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
Is that before or after paying their current debts? Not that it matters, they're still coming out way ahead. Mind you, by her reckoning, If I were Canadian, I'd be demanding my lump sum from my own government right now.
Instead what do I get?
Part if the problem now is that both our countries are too big and have distinct ideological and cultural regions.
Too big for what? And it's not as if both countries aren't already changing via immigration. What's a few more distinct regions?
posted by IndigoJones at 4:10 PM on October 4, 2013
Fuck Ontario. Fuck Quebec.
Well- fuck you, too!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:11 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Well- fuck you, too!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:11 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Natives of the Province of Florida would, however, still point and gawk when those crazy visitors go swimming in January, because no matter how close to the equator you are, fifty degree water is still damn cold.
posted by cmyk at 4:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by cmyk at 4:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Frankly, Canada needs more inter-country ties. Not sure what that means exactly, but it would make us a better nation if there was more East-West mixing.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 4:12 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Frankly, Canada needs more inter-country ties. Not sure what that means exactly, but it would make us a better nation if there was more East-West mixing.
As an unwilling part of the Atlantic Provinces diaspora, I respectfully disagree.
posted by erlking at 4:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
As an unwilling part of the Atlantic Provinces diaspora, I respectfully disagree.
posted by erlking at 4:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
No. It's bad enough living over a meth lab, I don't want it in my kitchen....
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:18 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:18 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yes, I'm not sure political union with somewhere like Missouri is such a great idea when we can barely stand each other.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:19 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
And in other news, The National Post is still a newspaper, still being read. By someone.
posted by ecourbanist at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by ecourbanist at 4:20 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
It's funny that as an Albertan I know far more about places like New Mexico and New York state than I do about Quebec. They really do have their own culture, and outside of occasional cultural exports it's nearly opaque to the English speaking part of the country.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:21 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 4:21 PM on October 4, 2013
[Canada is] bluer than any of the 50 states that now exist
Weird that Harper keeps getting elected, though. He's not exactly a Red Tory (progressive conservative) and favors a lot of the same policies that Bush II put in place, like having politicians vet the research that environmental scientists do, partisan extremism, firing whistleblowers, relaxing food safety regulations, tax breaks to oil and energy companies, stuff like that. Harper even favors American-style healthcare rationing over Canada's single payer model.
As a Canadian citizen living in the US, I don't really understand how Canadians can begin think they are left or even centrist enough to vote for Obama when they vote as a whole for politicians who are squarely social and fiscal conservatives. Maybe its that distinction where people have a perception of who they are that doesn't quite line up with who they are, in fact.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:22 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Weird that Harper keeps getting elected, though. He's not exactly a Red Tory (progressive conservative) and favors a lot of the same policies that Bush II put in place, like having politicians vet the research that environmental scientists do, partisan extremism, firing whistleblowers, relaxing food safety regulations, tax breaks to oil and energy companies, stuff like that. Harper even favors American-style healthcare rationing over Canada's single payer model.
As a Canadian citizen living in the US, I don't really understand how Canadians can begin think they are left or even centrist enough to vote for Obama when they vote as a whole for politicians who are squarely social and fiscal conservatives. Maybe its that distinction where people have a perception of who they are that doesn't quite line up with who they are, in fact.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:22 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
A few other stumbling blocks: The Canadian First Nations; right now their rights are recognized in the Constitution, they'd probably (rightly) demand an equivalent be added to the US Constitution. In addition there are bands with no treaty in place, that's a situation that would have to be settled before a final merger.
The Quebecois, bill 101, and the notwithstanding clause, and the status of French generally. Unless America is prepared to accept official bilingualism for Federal government functions in the new Canadian states as well as some exemptions to the constitution for Quebec it's a non-starter. Bonne chance mon ami.
Everyone in Canadian politics and business who would instantly go from being a big fish in a small pond to being a footnote to a footnote in terms of importance.
Everyone in Canada and the US who isn't an out of touch lunatic with misplaced EU envy.
posted by Grimgrin at 4:24 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
The Quebecois, bill 101, and the notwithstanding clause, and the status of French generally. Unless America is prepared to accept official bilingualism for Federal government functions in the new Canadian states as well as some exemptions to the constitution for Quebec it's a non-starter. Bonne chance mon ami.
Everyone in Canadian politics and business who would instantly go from being a big fish in a small pond to being a footnote to a footnote in terms of importance.
Everyone in Canada and the US who isn't an out of touch lunatic with misplaced EU envy.
posted by Grimgrin at 4:24 PM on October 4, 2013 [7 favorites]
Blazecock Pileon: How can Canadians begin to think they are left or even centrist? Why it is very simple! Despite governing for 7 years, Harper has never won more than 39% of the popular vote. That is how.
posted by erlking at 4:27 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by erlking at 4:27 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
I managed to get past the paywall (chrome debugger) and ... I wish I hadn't.
Nearly every thing she says seems wrong or nonsensical to me. The US's military is waning compared to other countries??? Canada is vulnerable to foreign military invasion. So it needs the US's strong military (wait didn't you just say...) to protect it. No wait, never mind, it's foreign investors who are the main threat to Canada. Which merging will fix somehow.
I can't even imagine reading an entire book filled with this stuff.
posted by aubilenon at 4:29 PM on October 4, 2013
Nearly every thing she says seems wrong or nonsensical to me. The US's military is waning compared to other countries??? Canada is vulnerable to foreign military invasion. So it needs the US's strong military (wait didn't you just say...) to protect it. No wait, never mind, it's foreign investors who are the main threat to Canada. Which merging will fix somehow.
I can't even imagine reading an entire book filled with this stuff.
posted by aubilenon at 4:29 PM on October 4, 2013
Oh, also, I saw Diane Francis speak at an industry event earlier this year, where she gave some details on her background and career.
Once she got a bit of money in the '80s, she basically turned her back on the values that originally brought her to Canada, and now spends most of her time trying to validate that decision.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:36 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Once she got a bit of money in the '80s, she basically turned her back on the values that originally brought her to Canada, and now spends most of her time trying to validate that decision.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:36 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Since this will never happen, I only came into this thread to read the DFW/Infinite Jest jokes. I must say, I'm rather disappointed. Surely we can summon up more than one.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:38 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 4:38 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Who would Canadians vote for — Obama or Romney?
Also: not only do 2/3 of Canadians reliably support centre-left and left-wing parties (and have done so since, what, Mulrooney?), but also Harper's ruinous agenda has only been enacted by slowly and sneakily rolling it out under dense veils of secrecy and obsfucation. If it was a true expression of the political will of the Canadian populace, this would not be the case.
And let's not even get into the now-being-brought-to-light electoral fraud that almost certainly happened in 2011.
God, "first past the post" plus whipped votes in Parliament is an awful system. Don't be envious of our governmental system during your shut-down, Americans. Our PM shuts Parliament down all the time, for silly self-serving reasons!
posted by erlking at 4:40 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also: not only do 2/3 of Canadians reliably support centre-left and left-wing parties (and have done so since, what, Mulrooney?), but also Harper's ruinous agenda has only been enacted by slowly and sneakily rolling it out under dense veils of secrecy and obsfucation. If it was a true expression of the political will of the Canadian populace, this would not be the case.
And let's not even get into the now-being-brought-to-light electoral fraud that almost certainly happened in 2011.
God, "first past the post" plus whipped votes in Parliament is an awful system. Don't be envious of our governmental system during your shut-down, Americans. Our PM shuts Parliament down all the time, for silly self-serving reasons!
posted by erlking at 4:40 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
There....already....is one.
I know! But I don't think these guys do.
See! There must be a fascist plot keeping it secret!
posted by heathkit at 4:47 PM on October 4, 2013
I know! But I don't think these guys do.
See! There must be a fascist plot keeping it secret!
posted by heathkit at 4:47 PM on October 4, 2013
God, "first past the post" plus whipped votes in Parliament is an awful system. Don't be envious of our governmental system during your shut-down, Americans. Our PM shuts Parliament down all the time, for silly self-serving reasons!
This is true. The American governmental system may seem loudly dysfunctional right now, but at least its problems can't be ignored. They're out in the open demanding to be fixed by the American people. The Canadian governmental system is quietly dysfunctional, and it stays broken for years and years. And the Canadian people seem to care less and less about the government, so long as they got theirs.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:47 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
This is true. The American governmental system may seem loudly dysfunctional right now, but at least its problems can't be ignored. They're out in the open demanding to be fixed by the American people. The Canadian governmental system is quietly dysfunctional, and it stays broken for years and years. And the Canadian people seem to care less and less about the government, so long as they got theirs.
posted by Kevin Street at 4:47 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
But what flag patch would people put on their backpacks?
posted by Tanizaki at 4:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Tanizaki at 4:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
In the "where weed is legal" pacific northwest we say "Canna-Merica"
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:58 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Annika Cicada at 4:58 PM on October 4, 2013
Loosely related, but I've just finished reading Philip Marchand's book, 'Ghost Empire: How the French Almost Conquered North America'. The pretext is La Salle's explorations in North America, and one of the undertones is an implied alternate universe where we (North Americans) all speak French, but also with more First Nations influence in our culture. Fascinating, if you are into this sort of thing.
posted by ovvl at 5:00 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 5:00 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I read the start of this thread on the front page, I actually said 'fuuuuuck off' out loud, which is rare. Not me saying 'fuck off', so much, but me saying it response to something I read on the internet.
So that's good, I guess.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:02 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
So that's good, I guess.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:02 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
National Post gonna National Post.
But seriously Americans, don't come any closer.
posted by dry white toast at 5:05 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
But seriously Americans, don't come any closer.
posted by dry white toast at 5:05 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
but we already have a northern resource area that makes delicious syrup
it is called vermont
posted by elizardbits at 5:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
it is called vermont
posted by elizardbits at 5:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
Fuck Ontario. Fuck Quebec.
hey now... the west coast is supposed to laid back not just laid.
posted by srboisvert at 5:17 PM on October 4, 2013
hey now... the west coast is supposed to laid back not just laid.
posted by srboisvert at 5:17 PM on October 4, 2013
Honestly, floating this idea to a country for whom the unifying Transcontinental Railroad project and Federation itself were driven by fears of attack and a desire to resist and defend against being absorbed into the US? It's even in our anthem: We Stand On Guard. They weren't thinking of the arctic border with the Russians when they wrote that line.
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:35 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:35 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Why would Canada even consider this? Given how violent, crazy and backwards things are here in the USA, it seems like they ought to be beefing up their border defenses, not thinking about a merger.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 5:37 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 5:37 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Has anyone asked the UK
You mean Airstrip One?
posted by XMLicious at 5:45 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
It'll have to happen at a de facto level at least if Canada is to have even a hope of keeping the Russians from taking the grizzly's share of the ENORMOUS arctic oil wealth.
posted by jamjam at 6:01 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by jamjam at 6:01 PM on October 4, 2013
When I was in the sixth grade one of my best friends was this guy named Nick who was basically mean as a snake and a bully. For some reason he liked me. But I never really felt too comfortable around him. You can probably understand why.
America is basically Canada's Nick. You're going to want to keep an eye on that dude.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
America is basically Canada's Nick. You're going to want to keep an eye on that dude.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:03 PM on October 4, 2013 [5 favorites]
Treaties with Canadian indigenous groups -- i.e., the legal fiction underneath the idea of "Ontario", "Quebec", etc. -- are between the groups and the Crown. I doubt First Nations will want to dissolve these relationships to merge with the USA.
posted by docgonzo at 6:14 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by docgonzo at 6:14 PM on October 4, 2013
I can not imagine the Canadian population would easily go along with this. If not by outright snipering Americans who cross the border, they'd throw sand into the gears of every political and judicial function at every opportunity. It would be an intransigent, hostile population that would just be no fun at all. A bad time would be had by all.
In other words, Canadians are just too big a pain in the ass to bother with amalgamation. Keep buying all the natural resources at give-away prices, selling us shit at too-high prices, and be happy with that.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:17 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
In other words, Canadians are just too big a pain in the ass to bother with amalgamation. Keep buying all the natural resources at give-away prices, selling us shit at too-high prices, and be happy with that.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:17 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
keeping the Russians from taking the grizzly's share of the ENORMOUS arctic oil wealth
Yes, because after the Arctic ice cap melts the obvious thing to do is go scrounging around in the newly accessible ocean floor for EVEN MORE CARBON to pump into the atmosphere.
posted by localroger at 6:30 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, because after the Arctic ice cap melts the obvious thing to do is go scrounging around in the newly accessible ocean floor for EVEN MORE CARBON to pump into the atmosphere.
posted by localroger at 6:30 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I believe I've made this comment here before.
American democracy couldn't handle thirty-five million Canadians accustomed to such things as universal healthcare, at least the illusion of a social safety net, a football season that ends before Thanksgiving. It would forever destroy the longstanding balance of power. Never again would there be a Republican majority in the Senate, or Congress, or even a Republican president for that matter.
On the other hand, I'm sure Canada (and the Queen) would delight in fifty new provinces.
posted by philip-random at 6:36 PM on October 4, 2013
American democracy couldn't handle thirty-five million Canadians accustomed to such things as universal healthcare, at least the illusion of a social safety net, a football season that ends before Thanksgiving. It would forever destroy the longstanding balance of power. Never again would there be a Republican majority in the Senate, or Congress, or even a Republican president for that matter.
On the other hand, I'm sure Canada (and the Queen) would delight in fifty new provinces.
posted by philip-random at 6:36 PM on October 4, 2013
Oh dear, is that the swill people imagine when we talk about Canadian beer?! Oh, we have much work to do — yes, much work.
Ok, serious question. What are the good Canadian microbrews? Unibroue doesn't count since it's owned by Sapporo. What great micros from the the great north should I be looking for?
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on October 4, 2013
Ok, serious question. What are the good Canadian microbrews? Unibroue doesn't count since it's owned by Sapporo. What great micros from the the great north should I be looking for?
posted by octothorpe at 6:38 PM on October 4, 2013
As a Canadian citizen living in the US, I don't really understand how Canadians can begin think they are left or even centrist enough to vote for Obama when they vote as a whole for politicians who are squarely social and fiscal conservatives. Maybe its that distinction where people have a perception of who they are that doesn't quite line up with who they are, in fact.
pssst...we have more than 2 parties up here.
posted by juv3nal at 6:41 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
pssst...we have more than 2 parties up here.
posted by juv3nal at 6:41 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
But if we become one country then where will Americans threaten to run away to?
posted by rtha at 6:49 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by rtha at 6:49 PM on October 4, 2013
What are the good Canadian microbrews?
If you discount Ubibroue then you're discounting a LOT of good beer needlessly. Fin du Monde, for goodness sake! Similarly with my local brewer Creemore, who were bought up by Molson. A little of the fire went out but I'm drinking their lovely Altbier right now, and their Kellerbier is excellent. But a lot of Canadian micros are TRULY micro. Like the young lad near me who set up his own brewery Killanan. Muskoka's Mad Tom IPA is another local fave.
posted by sweet mister at 6:53 PM on October 4, 2013
If you discount Ubibroue then you're discounting a LOT of good beer needlessly. Fin du Monde, for goodness sake! Similarly with my local brewer Creemore, who were bought up by Molson. A little of the fire went out but I'm drinking their lovely Altbier right now, and their Kellerbier is excellent. But a lot of Canadian micros are TRULY micro. Like the young lad near me who set up his own brewery Killanan. Muskoka's Mad Tom IPA is another local fave.
posted by sweet mister at 6:53 PM on October 4, 2013
NO THANKS GUYS.
posted by monkeymike at 6:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by monkeymike at 6:58 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ok, serious question. What are the good Canadian microbrews? Unibroue doesn't count since it's owned by Sapporo. What great micros from the the great north should I be looking for?
Well since you're in Pittsburgh you may not be around any time soon but if you're ever in Victoria or Vancouver there's a big microbrew scene here right now. I'm more familiar with the Victoria scene.
Central City Brewery
Driftwood Brewing Company
Philips Beer
Lighthouse Brewing Company
Hoyne Brewing Company
All worth checking out - all but Central City are on the island. Personal favourite right now is the Switchback IPA from Lighthouse, playing favourably against the BC favourites Central City Red Racer IPA and Driftwood Fat Tug IPA.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well since you're in Pittsburgh you may not be around any time soon but if you're ever in Victoria or Vancouver there's a big microbrew scene here right now. I'm more familiar with the Victoria scene.
Central City Brewery
Driftwood Brewing Company
Philips Beer
Lighthouse Brewing Company
Hoyne Brewing Company
All worth checking out - all but Central City are on the island. Personal favourite right now is the Switchback IPA from Lighthouse, playing favourably against the BC favourites Central City Red Racer IPA and Driftwood Fat Tug IPA.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:09 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Fuck Ontario. Fuck Quebec.
Well- fuck you, too!
Sorry, perhaps a bit harsh of me.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:10 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well- fuck you, too!
Sorry, perhaps a bit harsh of me.
posted by jimmythefish at 7:10 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Part if the problem now is that both our countries are too big and have distinct ideological and cultural regions.
If I'm not mistaken, a Confederation takes this into account- power over education and healthcare and whatnot are given to the Provinces, partly to account for these regional differences, (also I love erlking's comment about nationalism. Good point and a new idea I haven't heard before).
Ok Another point, Canadians in general do like Obama, but does that mean that we're a progressive country? Is Obama "progressive"? If "progressive" means egalitarian, realistic, compassionate, and intelligent, I find it hard to believe we're any better that the States. We're just as good and we're just as fucked. We can point to particular victories (earlier legalized same-sex marriage) but I don't think as a whole we can claim to be any better than people from another country.
And yes!! You can still get Schooner in Nova Scotia. Olands too, which I like a bit more. Schooner isn't a great beer but I love drinking it when I go home. For micro brews in Halifax, check out Propeller, Garrison, and Bridge Brewing company.
posted by beau jackson at 7:11 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
If I'm not mistaken, a Confederation takes this into account- power over education and healthcare and whatnot are given to the Provinces, partly to account for these regional differences, (also I love erlking's comment about nationalism. Good point and a new idea I haven't heard before).
Ok Another point, Canadians in general do like Obama, but does that mean that we're a progressive country? Is Obama "progressive"? If "progressive" means egalitarian, realistic, compassionate, and intelligent, I find it hard to believe we're any better that the States. We're just as good and we're just as fucked. We can point to particular victories (earlier legalized same-sex marriage) but I don't think as a whole we can claim to be any better than people from another country.
And yes!! You can still get Schooner in Nova Scotia. Olands too, which I like a bit more. Schooner isn't a great beer but I love drinking it when I go home. For micro brews in Halifax, check out Propeller, Garrison, and Bridge Brewing company.
posted by beau jackson at 7:11 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
It's called Oland, not Olands. I know because a bartender once yelled that at me.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by Sys Rq at 7:14 PM on October 4, 2013
i don't want to see miley fucking cyrus every time i go to the post office, thank you
She'd lick all your stamps and envelopes for you!
posted by mannequito at 7:17 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
She'd lick all your stamps and envelopes for you!
posted by mannequito at 7:17 PM on October 4, 2013 [6 favorites]
But where would my fake girlfriend live?
posted by brundlefly at 7:21 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 7:21 PM on October 4, 2013 [8 favorites]
Well the people call it 'Olands' so you're in good company, Sys Rq.
posted by beau jackson at 7:22 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by beau jackson at 7:22 PM on October 4, 2013
If we do this, can we exile Rush first? The last thing I want is Geddy Lee nasally whining all over my country about Ayn Rand and libertarianism. We have enough of those.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 7:23 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
On behalf of most polite Canadians. Fuuuuuuck this horrible idea.
posted by concreteforest at 7:26 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by concreteforest at 7:26 PM on October 4, 2013
Jeez, isn't the U.S. verging on being too big to manage already?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:31 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:31 PM on October 4, 2013
Okay. So just take our states north of the 40th parallel. You can leave D.C. out of it. Those of us south of the line who want to join the grand new nation of United Camerica will move north across the new border. (I could do Iowa. Iowa's okay.) We have some good stuff you could use, Canada! Like. Um. Corn?
posted by BlueJae at 7:36 PM on October 4, 2013
posted by BlueJae at 7:36 PM on October 4, 2013
Can you imagine the heads asploding in Quebec when it's announced that the new primary language is English? And not just any English, but 'Murrican English? The streets would run red.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:48 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:48 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Can you imagine the heads asploding in Quebec when it's announced that the new primary language is English?
I have a dream of one day all Canadians, anglophone and francophone alike, singing together in one voice with their heads flapping high and their beady little eyes glistening like obsidian in the morning sun.
posted by Tanizaki at 7:52 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
I have a dream of one day all Canadians, anglophone and francophone alike, singing together in one voice with their heads flapping high and their beady little eyes glistening like obsidian in the morning sun.
posted by Tanizaki at 7:52 PM on October 4, 2013 [3 favorites]
One of the funny things about moving from Ohio to Seattle is that instead of meeting Ontarians who want to tell me how much America sucks, I instead meet Vancouverites who want to tell me how much America sucks.
Canadians are too united by insecurity for this to get off the ground.
Off to not think about Canada for another long while!
posted by Kwine at 8:06 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Canadians are too united by insecurity for this to get off the ground.
Off to not think about Canada for another long while!
posted by Kwine at 8:06 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Canadians are too united by insecurity for this to get off the ground.
I've often felt this should be incorporated into our anthem somehow.
posted by figurant at 8:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've often felt this should be incorporated into our anthem somehow.
posted by figurant at 8:08 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
So 90% of us Canadians live in the bottom southern bit of our nation near the US border. Does that mean the whole country, up to and past the Arctic Circle, should become "American"? (as in "part of the United States of America". Remember, we are already living in the Americas).
It seems to me that if we were to change anything, we (the 90%) should form our own country of Southern Canada and let the people up North control their own land, rather than hand it over to the government of the United States of America.
I mean, if that's what the Northern people wanted. Asking them would just be the polite thing to do...
posted by beau jackson at 8:09 PM on October 4, 2013
It seems to me that if we were to change anything, we (the 90%) should form our own country of Southern Canada and let the people up North control their own land, rather than hand it over to the government of the United States of America.
I mean, if that's what the Northern people wanted. Asking them would just be the polite thing to do...
posted by beau jackson at 8:09 PM on October 4, 2013
The main thing of interest is that due to NatPo's ties to the Conservative Party, this kind of conversation happening in public means the same conversation is far more developed in private.
posted by mobunited at 8:43 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by mobunited at 8:43 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
The main thing of interest is that due to NatPo's ties to the Conservative Party, this kind of conversation happening in public means the same conversation is far more developed in private.
If that were true, why would the Cons be putting up portraits of the Queen in every public building, and renaming everything "Royal Canadian" this, and "Royal Canadian" that.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:13 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
If that were true, why would the Cons be putting up portraits of the Queen in every public building, and renaming everything "Royal Canadian" this, and "Royal Canadian" that.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:13 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Ha, ha. If you want to see what armed Canadian insurrection looks like, just try something like this. The old polite Canadian stereotype will vanish pretty quickly, trust me.
posted by sweet mister at 9:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by sweet mister at 9:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
Does that mean the whole country, up to and past the Arctic Circle, should become "American"?
No, I think it means that whole country become Canadian. Hope, hope, hope.
posted by SPrintF at 9:23 PM on October 4, 2013
No, I think it means that whole country become Canadian. Hope, hope, hope.
posted by SPrintF at 9:23 PM on October 4, 2013
Ha, ha. If you want to see what armed Canadian insurrection looks like, just try something like this. The old polite Canadian stereotype will vanish pretty quickly, trust me.
Yes! Use your anger! Turn to the dark side of the border!
posted by XMLicious at 9:28 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yes! Use your anger! Turn to the dark side of the border!
You know, I'm not sure I actually know any Canadians who don't know how to operate a firearm. Maybe one or two in my immediate family, but even then I'm not completely sure.
Granted, I grew up in Alberta. But, holy fuck, did my immediate circle of friends know from irresponsible gun usage and long distance accuracy. And this was after the long gun registry came in.
posted by figurant at 9:31 PM on October 4, 2013
You know, I'm not sure I actually know any Canadians who don't know how to operate a firearm. Maybe one or two in my immediate family, but even then I'm not completely sure.
Granted, I grew up in Alberta. But, holy fuck, did my immediate circle of friends know from irresponsible gun usage and long distance accuracy. And this was after the long gun registry came in.
posted by figurant at 9:31 PM on October 4, 2013
Do they talk about the necessity of armed insurrection against the government and "watering the Tree of Liberty with blood" type things all the time, though?
I mean, the Swiss all have firearms as well. That's not all it is, you've gotta be able to hate yer Obama too.
posted by XMLicious at 9:49 PM on October 4, 2013
I mean, the Swiss all have firearms as well. That's not all it is, you've gotta be able to hate yer Obama too.
posted by XMLicious at 9:49 PM on October 4, 2013
pssst...we have more than 2 parties up here.
Psst... I know — and you understand that this just makes 40% of Canada voting for Harper even more damning, right? Because, presumably, a country whose people profess to heady progressive ideals (such as voting for a black man) should be able to do a better job than giving such a huge chunk of the vote to one party that violates pretty much every single one of them.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:55 PM on October 4, 2013
Psst... I know — and you understand that this just makes 40% of Canada voting for Harper even more damning, right? Because, presumably, a country whose people profess to heady progressive ideals (such as voting for a black man) should be able to do a better job than giving such a huge chunk of the vote to one party that violates pretty much every single one of them.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:55 PM on October 4, 2013
No. No chance, no how, no way.
I'm not being especially anti-American (except in the sense that to be Canadian is to be implicitly anti-American). It just wouldn't work.
Just because we speak the same language (more or less) (and except in Quebec and other francophone communities, of course) doesn't mean we're the same people. Not to mention all the constitutional and political issues mentioned above.
Oh, and can Diane Francis be charged with treason?
posted by e-man at 10:18 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not being especially anti-American (except in the sense that to be Canadian is to be implicitly anti-American). It just wouldn't work.
Just because we speak the same language (more or less) (and except in Quebec and other francophone communities, of course) doesn't mean we're the same people. Not to mention all the constitutional and political issues mentioned above.
Oh, and can Diane Francis be charged with treason?
posted by e-man at 10:18 PM on October 4, 2013 [1 favorite]
griphus: "Montreal can be the sixth borough if they'd like"
ITYM "arrondissement".
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
ITYM "arrondissement".
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:19 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
We shall begin with correcting your football rules
American football rules are just fine, thank you. Even though they don't produce anything like this.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 10:23 PM on October 4, 2013
American football rules are just fine, thank you. Even though they don't produce anything like this.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 10:23 PM on October 4, 2013
Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 10:33 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by obscure simpsons reference at 10:33 PM on October 4, 2013 [4 favorites]
jimmythefish: "I'd support a breakup of the continent into something closer to geographic and cultural realities. In my region, Cascadia seems logical. BC, WA, OR and ID. What a great place that would be."
Ooh, so close. Idaho can stay right where and with whom it is. For that matter, so can basically east of the Cascades (except Spokane; we're taking Spokane).
posted by fireoyster at 10:45 PM on October 4, 2013
Ooh, so close. Idaho can stay right where and with whom it is. For that matter, so can basically east of the Cascades (except Spokane; we're taking Spokane).
posted by fireoyster at 10:45 PM on October 4, 2013
Not that I'm in favor of unification or anything, but do you think we could get the Canadians to come over and burn Washington again?
posted by happyroach at 11:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 11:14 PM on October 4, 2013 [2 favorites]
Bwithh: "Politically, Canada's provinces might seek entry as U.S. states -- or perhaps as a commonwealth if Quebec wished to preserve a government of its own."
Can you imagine the head asploding that would happen with 26 new Canadian senators.
posted by Mitheral at 12:06 AM on October 5, 2013
Can you imagine the head asploding that would happen with 26 new Canadian senators.
posted by Mitheral at 12:06 AM on October 5, 2013
How about Canada just takes the USA over and doesn't give us votes for a couple decades so that most of the bigots can die off and everyone else can find out how awesome free healthcare is?
Also, why are we acting like the British would mind losing a colony? They wouldn't be *losing* one, they'd be *gaining their old ones*. It'll be great! I will totally do whatever Queenology is appropriate if I can get my fucking medications covered. I will hail her or worship her corgis or whatever.
posted by NoraReed at 12:14 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, why are we acting like the British would mind losing a colony? They wouldn't be *losing* one, they'd be *gaining their old ones*. It'll be great! I will totally do whatever Queenology is appropriate if I can get my fucking medications covered. I will hail her or worship her corgis or whatever.
posted by NoraReed at 12:14 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
There is some bizarre self-loathing by Americans and some even stranger insecurity by Canadians going on here.
Canada is a good place and has good beer, but to ignore all the amazing beer in the US is madness. I mean, we both have pretty fantastic beer cultures. Make peace with that.
The US system does seem pretty dysfunctional, but Canada has its pretty regressive moments too. It's nice to try to get Universal Healthcare down, but the US will get there. We have almost done it how many times since the 60's? Canada's parliamentary democracy is not immune to damage from the crazies.
Canadians are not always nice. Some are absolute jerkfaces. And the US has some really nice regions too! Minnesota is pure America, and so polite. And I know the South has been seen as crappy from afar, but it is absurdly nice. I've never been asked if I needed a ride as I walked down the road than in the South (Minnesotans keep to themselves and figure that if you are walking down a road you probably have a good reason to be).
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either. If the US and Canada were to merge, I say we ditch the Queen/King thingy.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:27 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Canada is a good place and has good beer, but to ignore all the amazing beer in the US is madness. I mean, we both have pretty fantastic beer cultures. Make peace with that.
The US system does seem pretty dysfunctional, but Canada has its pretty regressive moments too. It's nice to try to get Universal Healthcare down, but the US will get there. We have almost done it how many times since the 60's? Canada's parliamentary democracy is not immune to damage from the crazies.
Canadians are not always nice. Some are absolute jerkfaces. And the US has some really nice regions too! Minnesota is pure America, and so polite. And I know the South has been seen as crappy from afar, but it is absurdly nice. I've never been asked if I needed a ride as I walked down the road than in the South (Minnesotans keep to themselves and figure that if you are walking down a road you probably have a good reason to be).
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either. If the US and Canada were to merge, I say we ditch the Queen/King thingy.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:27 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Not that I'm in favor of unification or anything, but do you think we could get the Canadians to come over and burn Washington again?
Honestly, your House appears to be doing a bang-up job of burning the nation to the ground. I really don't think the Teaparty needs our assistance.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:48 AM on October 5, 2013
Honestly, your House appears to be doing a bang-up job of burning the nation to the ground. I really don't think the Teaparty needs our assistance.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:48 AM on October 5, 2013
…the South has been seen as crappy from afar, but it is absurdly nice.
If you're a white male. It is generally not nice to "coloureds", LGBT&c, and women.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:52 AM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
If you're a white male. It is generally not nice to "coloureds", LGBT&c, and women.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:52 AM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either.
posted by Lord Chancellor
Heh.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:19 AM on October 5, 2013
posted by Lord Chancellor
Heh.
posted by Kevin Street at 1:19 AM on October 5, 2013
…the South has been seen as crappy from afar, but it is absurdly nice.
If you're a white male. It is generally not nice to "coloureds", LGBT&c, and women.
I think that's a pretty simplistic reading of the region and the people. Do you think it's the climate?
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either.
posted by Lord Chancellor
Heh.
I loathe competition.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 1:28 AM on October 5, 2013
If you're a white male. It is generally not nice to "coloureds", LGBT&c, and women.
I think that's a pretty simplistic reading of the region and the people. Do you think it's the climate?
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either.
posted by Lord Chancellor
Heh.
I loathe competition.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 1:28 AM on October 5, 2013
You can tell how sensible an idea this is by briefly noting the author was also in favour of Canada joining the War on Iraq.
posted by MartinWisse at 1:36 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by MartinWisse at 1:36 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Purposeful Grimace: Can you imagine the heads asploding in Quebec when it's announced that the new primary language is English? And not just any English, but 'Murrican English? The streets would run red.
It would be worth it just to see their reaction.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:42 AM on October 5, 2013
It would be worth it just to see their reaction.
posted by Mitrovarr at 1:42 AM on October 5, 2013
If that were true, why would the Cons be putting up portraits of the Queen in every public building, and renaming everything "Royal Canadian" this, and "Royal Canadian" that.
Because this is probably irrelevant to the method of political unification that would actually be used, which would be a long game starting with sovereignty association to mollify the older voters Reform acquired when it ate the old Tories. It's just a matter of waiting until all the people who were adults when Pearson's flag was adopted have died.
The Canadian Forces are already an arm of American policy. JTF-2 is functionally a branch of SOCOM that happens to hang out near Ottawa. If the Iraq war started today, the CF would be there. The CF's traditional role as peacekeepers has been replaced with . . . this.
Basically, the article is a sort of exploratory propaganda for conservative (though not necessarily *elected*) interests to float the idea while functional integration takes place. Examples include a nearly harmonized dollar, the abandonment of the industrial sector in favour of natural resources, and integrated border policies that allow US law enforcement to make arrests in Canada.
This is not really a conspiracy, but a collective abandonment of the notion of an autonomous Canadian national interest by people with the power to influence policy, linked to an ongoing conversation about streamlining the process of abandonment. It is only conspiratorial in the sense that this is so unpopular among Canadians that the participants would never admit to this abandonment, or of talking about the next step. In terms of actual politicians, the modern Conservative party has its roots in Western alienation,which often manifests as a stronger sympathy with the US than with Central or Eastern Canada. Its predecessor used to send observers to the Republican National Convention. Hell, it used to have US-trained neo-Nazi bodyguards too, but apparently it's impolite to mention this.
posted by mobunited at 1:58 AM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
Because this is probably irrelevant to the method of political unification that would actually be used, which would be a long game starting with sovereignty association to mollify the older voters Reform acquired when it ate the old Tories. It's just a matter of waiting until all the people who were adults when Pearson's flag was adopted have died.
The Canadian Forces are already an arm of American policy. JTF-2 is functionally a branch of SOCOM that happens to hang out near Ottawa. If the Iraq war started today, the CF would be there. The CF's traditional role as peacekeepers has been replaced with . . . this.
Basically, the article is a sort of exploratory propaganda for conservative (though not necessarily *elected*) interests to float the idea while functional integration takes place. Examples include a nearly harmonized dollar, the abandonment of the industrial sector in favour of natural resources, and integrated border policies that allow US law enforcement to make arrests in Canada.
This is not really a conspiracy, but a collective abandonment of the notion of an autonomous Canadian national interest by people with the power to influence policy, linked to an ongoing conversation about streamlining the process of abandonment. It is only conspiratorial in the sense that this is so unpopular among Canadians that the participants would never admit to this abandonment, or of talking about the next step. In terms of actual politicians, the modern Conservative party has its roots in Western alienation,which often manifests as a stronger sympathy with the US than with Central or Eastern Canada. Its predecessor used to send observers to the Republican National Convention. Hell, it used to have US-trained neo-Nazi bodyguards too, but apparently it's impolite to mention this.
posted by mobunited at 1:58 AM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
There is some bizarre self-loathing by Americans and some even stranger insecurity by Canadians going on here.
That's because of American casual, hegemonic contempt for our differences that is so pervasive it goes unnoticed by the people doing it.
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either. If the US and Canada were to merge, I say we ditch the Queen/King thingy.
This is kind of on the edge of what I'm talking about.
posted by mobunited at 2:01 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's because of American casual, hegemonic contempt for our differences that is so pervasive it goes unnoticed by the people doing it.
I'm not crazy about Monarchy—even symbolic ones—either. If the US and Canada were to merge, I say we ditch the Queen/King thingy.
This is kind of on the edge of what I'm talking about.
posted by mobunited at 2:01 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
Psst... I know — and you understand that this just makes 40% of Canada voting for Harper even more damning, right?
You don't vote for the PM unless you live in his riding. His party gained less than 2% to attain majority status. Several unprecedented shifts in the political landscape allowed this to become a majority government and highlighting the flaws of first past the post. The BQ's vote share dropped 6%, but they lost 43 seats. Add to this the essentially local nature of elections in many parts of Canada and former Tory holdovers, this is not indicative of a strong approval for Harper's cabinet--though it's not no approval, that's for sure.
posted by mobunited at 2:13 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
You don't vote for the PM unless you live in his riding. His party gained less than 2% to attain majority status. Several unprecedented shifts in the political landscape allowed this to become a majority government and highlighting the flaws of first past the post. The BQ's vote share dropped 6%, but they lost 43 seats. Add to this the essentially local nature of elections in many parts of Canada and former Tory holdovers, this is not indicative of a strong approval for Harper's cabinet--though it's not no approval, that's for sure.
posted by mobunited at 2:13 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
When I read these calls for unification I presume that we are reaching peak syrup and behind the scenes Big Maple is trying to engineer a takeover of Canadian supplies.
posted by MuffinMan at 2:17 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by MuffinMan at 2:17 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I read these calls for unification I presume that we are reaching peak syrup and behind the scenes Big Maple is trying to engineer a takeover of Canadian supplies.
I'm confused by this. Isn't Big Maple Canadian? The Quebec producers are all united in a federation and even have a strategic syrup reserve.
posted by Area Man at 5:24 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm confused by this. Isn't Big Maple Canadian? The Quebec producers are all united in a federation and even have a strategic syrup reserve.
posted by Area Man at 5:24 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Could the launch timing of Francis' book on unification be any worse?
mobunited, I agree that the current Canadian federal government has rolled the Canadian economy back to the '50s as hewers of wood and drawers of water (and diggers of oil and potash), and that Harper outsourced our foreign policy to Washington. I think it was more to placate Westerners and the hard right, and to pretend he's an economic wizard, than as a concrete step towards actual unification. And of course the right are ardent free-traders.
The current US federal circus has changed my reaction to any idea of unification from Hell, no! to Oh fuck, please God, no. Let's just be friends, m'kay? I think we should see other countries.
posted by Artful Codger at 5:32 AM on October 5, 2013
mobunited, I agree that the current Canadian federal government has rolled the Canadian economy back to the '50s as hewers of wood and drawers of water (and diggers of oil and potash), and that Harper outsourced our foreign policy to Washington. I think it was more to placate Westerners and the hard right, and to pretend he's an economic wizard, than as a concrete step towards actual unification. And of course the right are ardent free-traders.
The current US federal circus has changed my reaction to any idea of unification from Hell, no! to Oh fuck, please God, no. Let's just be friends, m'kay? I think we should see other countries.
posted by Artful Codger at 5:32 AM on October 5, 2013
Others have made mention of this, but I'd like to talk a bit about how Canadians are entirely correct, based on recent election data, when considering themselves (and the country in general) to be more left-leaning than our current government shows.
1) 39.62% of the popular vote went to the Conservative Party of Canada. This indicates that 60.38% of the popular vote did not go to the Conservatives. Approximately 0.88% of the valid votes cast (130,521) went to parties such as the Rhinoceros party, the Pirate party and the Marijuana party or to Independent candidates. None of these candidates got seats in the House of Commons. The parties that are represented in the House of Commons are:
- Conservative Party of Canada (166 seats)
- New Democratic Party (103 seats)
- Liberal Party (34 seats)
- Bloc Québécois (4 seats)
- Green Party (1 seat)
Of these, the Conservative Party of Canada is the party that is most to the right of the political spectrum, with (IMHO), the Liberals coming next as a more centre-left party, followed by the Green Party (recently rebranded to be more "centrist"), followed by the Bloc Québécois that's more leftish, followed by the NDP as quite left.
That's 142 seats won by parties that are more to the left on the political spectrum than the Conservative Party, which isn't very convincing on its own, I know, but taking the popular vote into account...
Conservative votes: 5,832,401
NDP: 4,508,474
Liberal: 2,783,175
BQ: 889,788
Green: 576,221
In other words:
Conservative votes: 5,832,401
Non-Conservative votes: 8,757,658
2) Split votes led to a Conservative majority government. In our system, we have several parties that are left of the Conservatives, as mentioned above. The trouble with the 2011 federal election is that people still didn't take the New Democratic Party quite as seriously as they could have. The NDP have never formed a majority government and have been viewed as a waste of votes as recently as, well, before Jack Layton took over. As such, people were reluctant to vote for the NDP over the Liberals, leading to a number of ridings where the combination of votes cast for the Liberals and NDP totalled more than what were cast for the Conservatives. However, due to the split of the left-leaning vote, the Conservatives came into power.
Here are just a few examples of where traditionally left-leaning ridings went inexplicably Conservative, until you do the left-leaning math:
a) Etobicoke Centre (Toronto area):
- Conservative: 21,644
- Liberal (incumbent): 21,618
- NDP: 7,735
- Green: 1,377
What became a win by the skin of their teeth for the Conservatives in this riding would have been a landslide victory without a split to the left.
b) Nipissing-Timiskaming (Ontario):
- Conservative: 15,495
- Liberal (incumbent): 15,477
- NDP: 8,781
- Green: 2,518
Same situation here in this riding -- a united left would have obliterated the chances that the Conservatives got in.
c) Lotbinière-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière (Québec):
- Conservative (incumbent): 22,460
- NDP: 21,683
- BQ: 8,381
- Liberal: 2,866
- Green: 936
As you can see, the splitting wan't limited to Ontario, nor was it limited to screwing over the Liberals, nor did it only affect candidates who were incumbents. In this example in Québec, the left was much more popular than the incumbent Conservative candidate in terms of votes received and the tide had turned in favour of the NDP in particular, but because people split their votes (most notably here between the BQ and the NDP, although even the Green voters throwing support to the NDP would have resulted in a Conservative loss), the Conservatives retained this seat in the House of Commons.
There are plenty of examples here, from across the country.
In order to form a majority government for this particular election, one party needs to win 155 seats. The link above shows 14 ridings where the Conservative candidate had fewer votes than their opponents combined (usually with a very small margin of victory over the second party). The Conservatives won 166 seats. 166-14 = 152 = minority government.
Basically, we're more left-leaning than our government currently represents. My personal hunch is that either the NDP will collapse in the next election, leading to huge gains by the Liberals (due to the death of Jack Layton and the election of Justin Trudeau as the new leader of the Liberals) or that people will realize that the NDP is actually a valid choice and more people will vote NDP. I suspect that either way, we may end up with another Conservative government (minority, this time), until one party really gains the trust of the country.
Some interesting math and discussion of vote-splitting here.
Other info/references, for the curious:
Elections Canada
Wikipedia's Results of the Canadian federal election, 2011
posted by juliebug at 5:59 AM on October 5, 2013 [8 favorites]
1) 39.62% of the popular vote went to the Conservative Party of Canada. This indicates that 60.38% of the popular vote did not go to the Conservatives. Approximately 0.88% of the valid votes cast (130,521) went to parties such as the Rhinoceros party, the Pirate party and the Marijuana party or to Independent candidates. None of these candidates got seats in the House of Commons. The parties that are represented in the House of Commons are:
- Conservative Party of Canada (166 seats)
- New Democratic Party (103 seats)
- Liberal Party (34 seats)
- Bloc Québécois (4 seats)
- Green Party (1 seat)
Of these, the Conservative Party of Canada is the party that is most to the right of the political spectrum, with (IMHO), the Liberals coming next as a more centre-left party, followed by the Green Party (recently rebranded to be more "centrist"), followed by the Bloc Québécois that's more leftish, followed by the NDP as quite left.
That's 142 seats won by parties that are more to the left on the political spectrum than the Conservative Party, which isn't very convincing on its own, I know, but taking the popular vote into account...
Conservative votes: 5,832,401
NDP: 4,508,474
Liberal: 2,783,175
BQ: 889,788
Green: 576,221
In other words:
Conservative votes: 5,832,401
Non-Conservative votes: 8,757,658
2) Split votes led to a Conservative majority government. In our system, we have several parties that are left of the Conservatives, as mentioned above. The trouble with the 2011 federal election is that people still didn't take the New Democratic Party quite as seriously as they could have. The NDP have never formed a majority government and have been viewed as a waste of votes as recently as, well, before Jack Layton took over. As such, people were reluctant to vote for the NDP over the Liberals, leading to a number of ridings where the combination of votes cast for the Liberals and NDP totalled more than what were cast for the Conservatives. However, due to the split of the left-leaning vote, the Conservatives came into power.
Here are just a few examples of where traditionally left-leaning ridings went inexplicably Conservative, until you do the left-leaning math:
a) Etobicoke Centre (Toronto area):
- Conservative: 21,644
- Liberal (incumbent): 21,618
- NDP: 7,735
- Green: 1,377
What became a win by the skin of their teeth for the Conservatives in this riding would have been a landslide victory without a split to the left.
b) Nipissing-Timiskaming (Ontario):
- Conservative: 15,495
- Liberal (incumbent): 15,477
- NDP: 8,781
- Green: 2,518
Same situation here in this riding -- a united left would have obliterated the chances that the Conservatives got in.
c) Lotbinière-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière (Québec):
- Conservative (incumbent): 22,460
- NDP: 21,683
- BQ: 8,381
- Liberal: 2,866
- Green: 936
As you can see, the splitting wan't limited to Ontario, nor was it limited to screwing over the Liberals, nor did it only affect candidates who were incumbents. In this example in Québec, the left was much more popular than the incumbent Conservative candidate in terms of votes received and the tide had turned in favour of the NDP in particular, but because people split their votes (most notably here between the BQ and the NDP, although even the Green voters throwing support to the NDP would have resulted in a Conservative loss), the Conservatives retained this seat in the House of Commons.
There are plenty of examples here, from across the country.
In order to form a majority government for this particular election, one party needs to win 155 seats. The link above shows 14 ridings where the Conservative candidate had fewer votes than their opponents combined (usually with a very small margin of victory over the second party). The Conservatives won 166 seats. 166-14 = 152 = minority government.
Basically, we're more left-leaning than our government currently represents. My personal hunch is that either the NDP will collapse in the next election, leading to huge gains by the Liberals (due to the death of Jack Layton and the election of Justin Trudeau as the new leader of the Liberals) or that people will realize that the NDP is actually a valid choice and more people will vote NDP. I suspect that either way, we may end up with another Conservative government (minority, this time), until one party really gains the trust of the country.
Some interesting math and discussion of vote-splitting here.
Other info/references, for the curious:
Elections Canada
Wikipedia's Results of the Canadian federal election, 2011
posted by juliebug at 5:59 AM on October 5, 2013 [8 favorites]
In order to join Confederation, each state would first be adopted as a Canadian territory (as if the provinces would approve any one of them joining in right off the bat). They would be permitted limited local control, just as the existing territories do. Over the next 10-100 years, there would be time to implement modern, progressive policies at a federal level, like universal healthcare and same-sex marriage, without interference. As various states progress socially and politically to a point where the rest of Canada isn't repelled by the idea of them taking a full part in Confederation, constitutional conventions can be held to determine whether they should become provinces. It might take longer for some than for others, but eventually we will have a unified North American state that reflects enlightened Canadian ideals.
That's what she was talking about, right?
posted by jamincan at 6:19 AM on October 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
That's what she was talking about, right?
posted by jamincan at 6:19 AM on October 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
Ok, serious question. What are the good Canadian microbrews? Unibroue doesn't count since it's owned by Sapporo. What great micros from the the great north should I be looking for?
Late to this--because, y'know, it was bedtime--but oh man, where do I begin? We're obviously doing regional here given the size of the country, here are my Quebec favorites:
Dieu du Ciel (I see them more and more upon occasion when I travel to beer pubs in the US, so yay because their beer is so so good. Their coffee/vanilla stout, Aphrodisiaque is one of my favorite winter beers)
Le Trou au Diable
L'Alchimiste
Les Trois Mousquetaires
Pit Caribous
And that is just a fraction of those who bottle and sell. We have a depanneur alone here in Sherbrooke, a town that is just shy of 200K folks, that sells nothing but bottled microbrews from all over Quebec. Not to mention having four microbreweries which don't bottle serving up their wares at their locations.
I get that Americans think Canada is the land of Molson's, Labatt's, etc, because obviously those companies have the clout and budget to push their shitty beers into the US. But we're drinking much better beer than you think we are.
posted by Kitteh at 6:34 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Late to this--because, y'know, it was bedtime--but oh man, where do I begin? We're obviously doing regional here given the size of the country, here are my Quebec favorites:
Dieu du Ciel (I see them more and more upon occasion when I travel to beer pubs in the US, so yay because their beer is so so good. Their coffee/vanilla stout, Aphrodisiaque is one of my favorite winter beers)
Le Trou au Diable
L'Alchimiste
Les Trois Mousquetaires
Pit Caribous
And that is just a fraction of those who bottle and sell. We have a depanneur alone here in Sherbrooke, a town that is just shy of 200K folks, that sells nothing but bottled microbrews from all over Quebec. Not to mention having four microbreweries which don't bottle serving up their wares at their locations.
I get that Americans think Canada is the land of Molson's, Labatt's, etc, because obviously those companies have the clout and budget to push their shitty beers into the US. But we're drinking much better beer than you think we are.
posted by Kitteh at 6:34 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
And the US has some really nice regions too!
But you know what would make them even nicer? Universal healthcare. Now, not when we "get there".
Also, a government. Canada has one of those, last time I checked.
posted by NoraReed at 6:49 AM on October 5, 2013
But you know what would make them even nicer? Universal healthcare. Now, not when we "get there".
Also, a government. Canada has one of those, last time I checked.
posted by NoraReed at 6:49 AM on October 5, 2013
jamincan: Over the next 10-100 years, there would be time to implement modern, progressive policies at a federal level, like universal healthcare and same-sex marriage, without interference.
Can New England come in first? New Hampshire aside, I think we're pretty much in alignment already. We can push aside a few Dunkin' Donuts to make room for Tim Horton's to be ready.
posted by fader at 6:53 AM on October 5, 2013
Can New England come in first? New Hampshire aside, I think we're pretty much in alignment already. We can push aside a few Dunkin' Donuts to make room for Tim Horton's to be ready.
posted by fader at 6:53 AM on October 5, 2013
Kitteh: I get that Americans think Canada is the land of Molson's, Labatt's, etc, because obviously those companies have the clout and budget to push their shitty beers into the US. But we're drinking much better beer than you think we are.
Definitely. Last time I was in Montreal I had some fantastic beer. Though this goes both ways -- we let you think that Budweiser and Coors are all we have in the US so we can keep the good stuff for ourselves.
posted by fader at 6:55 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Definitely. Last time I was in Montreal I had some fantastic beer. Though this goes both ways -- we let you think that Budweiser and Coors are all we have in the US so we can keep the good stuff for ourselves.
posted by fader at 6:55 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you've tried many times over 50 years to get universal health care and each time it has failed, that is not really going to go in the "pro" column. It suggests something is deeply wrong.
And I am actually agog that it has been argued that <40% of votes going to the sole right-wing party — a high-water mark that occurred under a set of unusual circumstances and after more than fifteen years of hard work and dirty business from said right-wing party — is somehow a sign that Canadians comprise a regressive, conservative polity.
posted by erlking at 6:59 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
And I am actually agog that it has been argued that <40% of votes going to the sole right-wing party — a high-water mark that occurred under a set of unusual circumstances and after more than fifteen years of hard work and dirty business from said right-wing party — is somehow a sign that Canadians comprise a regressive, conservative polity.
posted by erlking at 6:59 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm a pretty big fan of some of the stuff Muskoka Brewery puts out. I haven't had their Double Chocolate Cranberry Stout, but I want to just for the bottle.
posted by jamincan at 7:00 AM on October 5, 2013
posted by jamincan at 7:00 AM on October 5, 2013
And bear in mind that the right-wing party, at the time of the election, had been hiding exactly how right wing they are. And also bear in mind that Canadian right wing != American right wing.
That said, I'd be okay with the part where I could buy everything online inexpensively.
posted by jeather at 7:11 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
That said, I'd be okay with the part where I could buy everything online inexpensively.
posted by jeather at 7:11 AM on October 5, 2013 [2 favorites]
Can you imagine the head asploding that would happen with 26 new Canadian senators.
It's more likely to be 20, since the three territories combined have roughly as many people as Billings, Montana.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:40 AM on October 5, 2013
It's more likely to be 20, since the three territories combined have roughly as many people as Billings, Montana.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:40 AM on October 5, 2013
Though this does make me giggle to imagine the incredible hissyfit the Republicans would throw. Imagine dumping about 10 million of what they consider hardcore communists into the American political landscape!
To be fair, this is literally how the Republicans feel about Washington DC.... and we're already citizens!
posted by schmod at 8:27 AM on October 5, 2013
To be fair, this is literally how the Republicans feel about Washington DC.... and we're already citizens!
posted by schmod at 8:27 AM on October 5, 2013
I like it, but it should be Northern and Southern Canada. Or, Vinland has a nice ring to it. We could wait a few decades, then have a revolution to settle the loose ends. We could pass a law about them pesky Republicans, and let them go live on a reservation in Florida, put up a fence because they like fences.
In the meantime, we should give most of the northish-middle part to the Confederation of First Americans, let them have it all the way from the Black Hills to Seattle--for their boats, because landlocked nations can be troublesome and petulant.
posted by mule98J at 10:11 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
In the meantime, we should give most of the northish-middle part to the Confederation of First Americans, let them have it all the way from the Black Hills to Seattle--for their boats, because landlocked nations can be troublesome and petulant.
posted by mule98J at 10:11 AM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
How about a trade, Alberta for Washington, Oregon and California?
posted by ead at 10:36 AM on October 5, 2013
posted by ead at 10:36 AM on October 5, 2013
Though this goes both ways -- we let you think that Budweiser and Coors are all we have in the US so we can keep the good stuff for ourselves.
I'm from Canada, but I've been to Portland a few times and I love it there. I was in Portland this past spring, and took a bunch of fellow Canadians out to a microbrew pub because (a) it was showing the hockey playoffs and (b) they were all talking about how much they had heard about all the wonderful beers of Portland and wanted to try some.
So when we sat down, 4 of them ordered Bud.
*facepalm*
How about a trade, Alberta for Washington, Oregon and California?
Only if Albertans have a chance to get out first. Not all of us are in agreement with what goes on here.
posted by nubs at 10:50 AM on October 5, 2013
I'm from Canada, but I've been to Portland a few times and I love it there. I was in Portland this past spring, and took a bunch of fellow Canadians out to a microbrew pub because (a) it was showing the hockey playoffs and (b) they were all talking about how much they had heard about all the wonderful beers of Portland and wanted to try some.
So when we sat down, 4 of them ordered Bud.
*facepalm*
How about a trade, Alberta for Washington, Oregon and California?
Only if Albertans have a chance to get out first. Not all of us are in agreement with what goes on here.
posted by nubs at 10:50 AM on October 5, 2013
we let you think that Budweiser and Coors are all we have in the US so we can keep the good stuff for ourselves.
Actually, as an expat American, I know this too.
posted by Kitteh at 11:07 AM on October 5, 2013
Actually, as an expat American, I know this too.
posted by Kitteh at 11:07 AM on October 5, 2013
"North American Government" consiparacy nuts. Always. In 2008, they were usually Ron Paul supporters.
Those guys (they're always men) were usually worked up about the idea of a secret, fascist highway plot (ie, a plan to build a highway connecting the three countries). Seriously, no one let them read this.--lunasol
Now this piqued my interest, and led to some searching. It is called the NAFTA superhighway. And Ron Paul himself talks about it.
Diane Francis must be part of the SPP conspiracy! (It is fun to laugh but this guy is a freaking Congressman. What is wrong with people?!)
posted by eye of newt at 11:32 AM on October 5, 2013
Those guys (they're always men) were usually worked up about the idea of a secret, fascist highway plot (ie, a plan to build a highway connecting the three countries). Seriously, no one let them read this.--lunasol
Now this piqued my interest, and led to some searching. It is called the NAFTA superhighway. And Ron Paul himself talks about it.
Diane Francis must be part of the SPP conspiracy! (It is fun to laugh but this guy is a freaking Congressman. What is wrong with people?!)
posted by eye of newt at 11:32 AM on October 5, 2013
If I ever let localroger lapse, Ron Paul Himself will be my next mefi username.
posted by localroger at 11:53 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by localroger at 11:53 AM on October 5, 2013 [3 favorites]
That's because of American casual, hegemonic contempt for our differences that is so pervasive it goes unnoticed by the people doing it.
Mobunited, I don't mean to slander the Canadians. I think its a wonderful country and I don't really desire us to 'unify' except in the way I want all nations to unify. We have two different, but entwined cultures. I think Canadians should be proud of their country just as Americans should be proud of theirs. I like the United States, warts and all, and all the regions, even the ones that people deride. Even in moments of crisis, I appreciate the good here, just as must as I'm sure Canadians feel similarly towards their own country and government.
I would rather feel shame towards my personal actions rather than nebulous reverse civic pride that appears enlightened. It's too easy to feel somehow superior based on feeling "ashamed" about something that you disclaim anyway. I think it's just fine to feel proud of the way you participate in the country that you live. Am I making myself more clear?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:29 PM on October 5, 2013
Mobunited, I don't mean to slander the Canadians. I think its a wonderful country and I don't really desire us to 'unify' except in the way I want all nations to unify. We have two different, but entwined cultures. I think Canadians should be proud of their country just as Americans should be proud of theirs. I like the United States, warts and all, and all the regions, even the ones that people deride. Even in moments of crisis, I appreciate the good here, just as must as I'm sure Canadians feel similarly towards their own country and government.
I would rather feel shame towards my personal actions rather than nebulous reverse civic pride that appears enlightened. It's too easy to feel somehow superior based on feeling "ashamed" about something that you disclaim anyway. I think it's just fine to feel proud of the way you participate in the country that you live. Am I making myself more clear?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:29 PM on October 5, 2013
In my region, Cascadia seems logical. BC, WA, OR and ID. What a great place that would be.
It's a beautiful country and would be a sensible nation. I'd vote to join it. The other Washington seems to live in an entirely different political world.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:14 PM on October 5, 2013
It's a beautiful country and would be a sensible nation. I'd vote to join it. The other Washington seems to live in an entirely different political world.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:14 PM on October 5, 2013
For those who haven't read it the novel Ecotopia might be of interest: published in 1975, set in an alternate-future 1999 where Washington, Oregon, and California have seceded from the United States to form their own nation.
posted by XMLicious at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 1:28 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
In order to join Confederation, each state would first be adopted as a Canadian territory (as if the provinces would approve any one of them joining in right off the bat). They would be permitted limited local control, just as the existing territories do. Over the next 10-100 years, there would be time to implement modern, progressive policies at a federal level, like universal healthcare and same-sex marriage, without interference. As various states progress socially and politically to a point where the rest of Canada isn't repelled by the idea of them taking a full part in Confederation, constitutional conventions can be held to determine whether they should become provinces. It might take longer for some than for others, but eventually we will have a unified North American state that reflects enlightened Canadian ideals.
Minnesota might be a good candidate! I feel sure you wouldn't be too repelled by our backward ways.
posted by Area Man at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2013
Minnesota might be a good candidate! I feel sure you wouldn't be too repelled by our backward ways.
posted by Area Man at 2:24 PM on October 5, 2013
God Bless Americanada! Our home and mergered land!
True patriot land that I love at all my sons command!
Stand beside her and guide her glowing heart through the night
that we see rise in the light from above!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 2:44 PM on October 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
True patriot land that I love at all my sons command!
Stand beside her and guide her glowing heart through the night
that we see rise in the light from above!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 2:44 PM on October 5, 2013 [5 favorites]
How about a trade, Alberta for Washington, Oregon and California?
I know you won't believe me when I say this, but Canadians we have more in common with each other than you do with Washington state.
Do you really think that conservative politicians would disappear with Alberta? No, there are plenty in southern Ontario. And do you really think the oil sands would be better managed by an American government?
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2013
I know you won't believe me when I say this, but Canadians we have more in common with each other than you do with Washington state.
Do you really think that conservative politicians would disappear with Alberta? No, there are plenty in southern Ontario. And do you really think the oil sands would be better managed by an American government?
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 3:52 PM on October 5, 2013
Do you really think that conservative politicians would disappear with Alberta? No, there are plenty in southern Ontario.
A massive reduction is good enough.
And do you really think the oil sands would be better managed by an American government?
Yes.
Oil and gas are such a huge portion of the Canadian (and Albertan in particular) economy that the government lets the industry do absolutely anything it wants as long as the money keeps rolling in. The US has a much larger, more diverse economy, and besides that, they'd tax the oil companies way, way less and would therefore be less dependent on them.
(Jesus. Did I just argue for lower corporate taxes? WHAT IS GOING ON)
posted by Sys Rq at 4:44 PM on October 5, 2013
A massive reduction is good enough.
And do you really think the oil sands would be better managed by an American government?
Yes.
Oil and gas are such a huge portion of the Canadian (and Albertan in particular) economy that the government lets the industry do absolutely anything it wants as long as the money keeps rolling in. The US has a much larger, more diverse economy, and besides that, they'd tax the oil companies way, way less and would therefore be less dependent on them.
(Jesus. Did I just argue for lower corporate taxes? WHAT IS GOING ON)
posted by Sys Rq at 4:44 PM on October 5, 2013
I agree that we would be better off if the government was less right-wing, and focused more on stimulating non-resource based industries. But I think it's good that we're getting revenue from the oil and not some other nation. It's not like we're pissing the wealth away and setting ourselves up for dependency now and failure in the future. I don't think the economy is less diverse now than it has been in the past 146 years. We could be doing a better job - we're not Norway - but we're also not Nauru.
the government lets the industry do absolutely anything it wants as long as the money keeps rolling in
The industry does what it wants because it's profitable and legal. I don't think the US's environmental laws are any better than ours so I don't see why oil sands production would slow down if it was under US jurisdiction.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 5:45 PM on October 5, 2013
the government lets the industry do absolutely anything it wants as long as the money keeps rolling in
The industry does what it wants because it's profitable and legal. I don't think the US's environmental laws are any better than ours so I don't see why oil sands production would slow down if it was under US jurisdiction.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 5:45 PM on October 5, 2013
Well, I'm an Albertan born and bred, and I don't want to join the US. No offense to them, it's just that this country is home. Alberta isn't Texas North or even Montana II. It's a unique part of Canada that isn't going anywhere.
posted by Kevin Street at 6:43 PM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 6:43 PM on October 5, 2013 [4 favorites]
At this point, I'd prefer we split America up and merge the sane states with Canada.
posted by empath at 7:07 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by empath at 7:07 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
one more dead town's last parade: "It's more likely to be 20, since the three territories combined have roughly as many people as Billings, Montana."
And ten times the area of Montana; four times as large as Texas and better than twice as large as Alaska. That must be good for a few senate seats considering the senate system is supposed to be a drag on the population representation of congress.
posted by Mitheral at 7:11 PM on October 5, 2013
And ten times the area of Montana; four times as large as Texas and better than twice as large as Alaska. That must be good for a few senate seats considering the senate system is supposed to be a drag on the population representation of congress.
posted by Mitheral at 7:11 PM on October 5, 2013
I suppose it's time to chime in. As a lifelong and native resident of New Orleans, I have visited Canada four times -- driving through to Vancouver and Point Pelee, and flying in to Calgary and Montreal. Four wonderful countries none of which seem to have fuckall to do with one another.
Before we USians start salivating at whatever we think we would get by absorbing Canada, we need to ask exactly what we would be getting. Because, having been there, my impression is that while the Canadian people are wonderful everywhere, their country hasn't exactly managed to even absorb itself yet.
posted by localroger at 7:35 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
Before we USians start salivating at whatever we think we would get by absorbing Canada, we need to ask exactly what we would be getting. Because, having been there, my impression is that while the Canadian people are wonderful everywhere, their country hasn't exactly managed to even absorb itself yet.
posted by localroger at 7:35 PM on October 5, 2013 [1 favorite]
lets the [natural resource] industry do absolutely anything it wants as long as the money keeps rolling in
And practically give these public resources away. We should be following Norway's example.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:46 PM on October 5, 2013
And practically give these public resources away. We should be following Norway's example.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:46 PM on October 5, 2013
Because, having been there, my impression is that while the Canadian people are wonderful everywhere, their country hasn't exactly managed to even absorb itself yet.
Yeah, it's true. In addition to being reknowned for our modesty, we are also less self absorbed than everyone else. ;P
posted by juv3nal at 9:38 PM on October 5, 2013
Yeah, it's true. In addition to being reknowned for our modesty, we are also less self absorbed than everyone else. ;P
posted by juv3nal at 9:38 PM on October 5, 2013
In the late 1980s, the United States was staggering under a massive foreign trade and budget deficit. Desperate for hard cash, a lame duck administration mortgaged the nation to its thrifty neighbor to the north... CANADA!
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:10 PM on October 5, 2013
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 11:10 PM on October 5, 2013
The Notional Past? I always thought the unofficial name for the Tory rag was the National Pest. ;-)
As much as I would like a merger with Canada to result in the U.S. adopting single-payer health care and the metric system, among other things, if such an event were to occur, I’d be more worried about the Canadian side losing what makes it a distinct society (so to speak). What Diane Francis proposes is a non-starter in so many ways... She couches it in such stark economic terms, but do we calculate national identity solely on the basis of dollars and cents? I don’t think so.
posted by kentk at 2:57 AM on October 6, 2013
As much as I would like a merger with Canada to result in the U.S. adopting single-payer health care and the metric system, among other things, if such an event were to occur, I’d be more worried about the Canadian side losing what makes it a distinct society (so to speak). What Diane Francis proposes is a non-starter in so many ways... She couches it in such stark economic terms, but do we calculate national identity solely on the basis of dollars and cents? I don’t think so.
posted by kentk at 2:57 AM on October 6, 2013
In my region, Cascadia seems logical. BC, WA, OR and ID. What a great place that would be.
While geographically it might make sense, politically I'm not so keen on ID. I mean I know dude's last name is Otter and the Hudson's Bay company made their bones on otter pelts and all, but still.
posted by juv3nal at 4:31 AM on October 6, 2013
While geographically it might make sense, politically I'm not so keen on ID. I mean I know dude's last name is Otter and the Hudson's Bay company made their bones on otter pelts and all, but still.
posted by juv3nal at 4:31 AM on October 6, 2013
Several unprecedented shifts in the political landscape allowed this to become a majority government and highlighting the flaws of first past the post.
Including the liberals (in the sort of right of centre sense of liberal) bright idea to import their leader from the US, making sure he was the kind of bright, well connected fellow who wasn't smart enough to not support the War on Iraq.
posted by MartinWisse at 5:41 AM on October 6, 2013
Including the liberals (in the sort of right of centre sense of liberal) bright idea to import their leader from the US, making sure he was the kind of bright, well connected fellow who wasn't smart enough to not support the War on Iraq.
posted by MartinWisse at 5:41 AM on October 6, 2013
Keep the US the hell away from Canada's natural resources, for the love of God.
posted by fraxil at 7:24 AM on October 6, 2013
posted by fraxil at 7:24 AM on October 6, 2013
Alright, so everyone is of the agreement that the US should remain the US and Canada should remain Canada, and no one should be getting all misty-eyed about being absorbed into a foreign country?
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:04 AM on October 6, 2013
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:04 AM on October 6, 2013
No, we still have people advocating for that idiotic Cascadia concept.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 9:32 AM on October 6, 2013
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 9:32 AM on October 6, 2013
To Canada: I'm sorry about Budweiser. It's not my fault, but I'm sorry anyhow. Coors too. We have local beer down here in Oregonoia. Root Beer, too.
And it's not Cascadia. It's the State of Jefferson.
Go Ducks.
posted by mule98J at 10:02 AM on October 6, 2013
And it's not Cascadia. It's the State of Jefferson.
Go Ducks.
posted by mule98J at 10:02 AM on October 6, 2013
localroger: ...my impression is that while the Canadian people are wonderful everywhere, their country hasn't exactly managed to even absorb itself yet.
That's a feature, not a bug. Instead of a "melting pot", Canada has striven to be multicultural, to be inclusive, and I think that this has worked out really well.
(Also c'mon, it's hard to believe Vermont and Texas are in the same country, amirite? ;) )
posted by Artful Codger at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
That's a feature, not a bug. Instead of a "melting pot", Canada has striven to be multicultural, to be inclusive, and I think that this has worked out really well.
(Also c'mon, it's hard to believe Vermont and Texas are in the same country, amirite? ;) )
posted by Artful Codger at 11:32 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's too late, as we (Britain) have now handed the USA the Revocation of Independence (history of this missive).
11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.
posted by Wordshore at 1:18 PM on October 7, 2013
11. As a sign of penance 5 grams of sea salt per cup will be added to all tea made within the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, this quantity to be doubled for tea made within the city of Boston itself.
posted by Wordshore at 1:18 PM on October 7, 2013
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posted by threeants at 2:49 PM on October 4, 2013