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October 6, 2013 1:33 PM   Subscribe

On the cusp of Doctor Who’s 50th Anniversary, rumors have been swirling for months that at least 90 of the 106 missing Doctor Who episodes have been recovered. Today, a Sunday tabloid in the UK ran the same rumor. A report in the Radio Times seems to confirm it.

The BBC will hold a press conference on Tuesday.
posted by 1970s Antihero (124 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite
 
Well, more like 2 episodes rather than 90, but every little helps, I guess.
posted by Artw at 1:37 PM on October 6, 2013


Previous deleted thread.
posted by teraflop at 1:38 PM on October 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


the rumors swirling for months were unfounded and these are new rumors, yeah?
posted by nadawi at 1:39 PM on October 6, 2013


Some reasonable discussion of why you shouldn't tryst tabloids or iterations of this particular runour in that deleted thread.
posted by Artw at 1:39 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


If it's in The Radio Times , it must be true
posted by Bwithh at 1:41 PM on October 6, 2013


yeah, while i'm hopeful, it seems like all the other times this has come up.
posted by nadawi at 1:41 PM on October 6, 2013


"There is definitely some misinformation with the #DoctorWho Missing Episode rumours in todays @DailyMirror. We will finally break our…

— Doctor Who Online (@DrWhoOnline) October 6, 2013

…silence on subject by saying missing episodes HAVE been found and some official news will be released within the next month! #Yay!

— Doctor Who Online (@DrWhoOnline) October 6, 2013"
posted by merelyglib at 1:43 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Does @DrWhoOnline have any official capacity?
posted by Artw at 1:44 PM on October 6, 2013


Tryst tabloids is such a great typo.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:46 PM on October 6, 2013 [4 favorites]


Not everything you read in the British tabloids is faked, folks
posted by Bwithh at 1:46 PM on October 6, 2013


Does @DrWhoOnline have any official capacity?

I don't think the're 'official' but they have been around for a while
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:49 PM on October 6, 2013


It is understood that other episodes have also been found, although it is not yet known whether these will be made available.

Presume that a condition thing or a negotiation thing
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 1:52 PM on October 6, 2013


From Doctor Who 24/7:

"Edward Russell, Doctor Who brand manager said: "It's Sunday. The weather's gray and the papers are full of rubbish…" Asked if he was refering to the above story, he replied, "What do you think?!"

Paul Vanezis from the Doctor Who Restoration Team said: "I would love it to be true. But it isn't."

Tom Spilsbury, editor of Doctor Who Magazine, said: "It's nonsense, I'm afraid.""
posted by jaduncan at 1:53 PM on October 6, 2013


the twitter for dwo says "confirmed" but points to a radio times link where there is no more confirmation than radio times saying it's true and bbc saying there is nothing to comment on. am i missing something?
posted by nadawi at 1:54 PM on October 6, 2013


24/7 link.
posted by jaduncan at 2:01 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Scrutinising these various statements as they come out, I've starting to feel like a cold war kremlinologist.... wheat production up, tractor production up... or are they?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:03 PM on October 6, 2013 [5 favorites]


You could always just sorta wait a bit?
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on October 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


(Of course I am seeing some people on Twitter VERY ANGRY about having to just sorta wait a bit.)
posted by Artw at 2:07 PM on October 6, 2013


Now if we could manage a link from the earlier thread to this one it may create a time anomaly, raising the attention of the time lords who could then bring a thumb drive recorder back to the episodes in question and drop them off at some mods domicile. But no, that would trigger an invasion of Daleks, which... oh nevermind.
posted by sammyo at 2:09 PM on October 6, 2013


You could always just sorta wait a bit?

Are you some sort of pinko?
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:12 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Obviously the repeated return of this story is because of warring time travellers messing up history, leaving only tabloid headlines and a vague feeling of deja vu in their wake.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:19 PM on October 6, 2013 [9 favorites]


I've starting to feel like a cold war kremlinologist.... wheat production up, tractor production up... or are they?

It's the same episodes, circling over the reviewing stand repeatedly.
posted by mrbill at 2:22 PM on October 6, 2013 [5 favorites]


I swear to god, if this is just the Black Guardian fucking around again, I'm going to be seriously pissed off.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:28 PM on October 6, 2013 [4 favorites]


I bet you'll spot the words "Bad Wolf" somewhere in the background of these lost episodes.
posted by Catblack at 2:43 PM on October 6, 2013 [3 favorites]


MartinWisse I see your comment crossed time and deletion.
posted by merocet at 2:44 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


I bet you'll spot the words "Bad Wolf" somewhere in the background of these lost episodes.

Yeah, they're taking a while to confirm these because they need to digitally insert Matt Smith in a fez mugging in the background of each episode.
posted by painquale at 2:46 PM on October 6, 2013 [6 favorites]


Recently recovered missing Patrick Troughton episodes will be made available digitally on Wednesday morning, RadioTimes.com can reveal

This may be a more reliable source. After all, RadioTimes publishes 'official' BBC program guides, right? (Or was a million years ago when I visited London bu not anymore?)
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:57 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


I have only seen one Troughton episode! Huzzah! for more of the Intergalactic Hobo Doctor!

Plus he was really funny as Dr. Rat Fink von Petal on The Goodies.
posted by droplet at 3:03 PM on October 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, this post from two days ago raises a possibility. Maybe we can telepathically signal these guys and convince them to record it for us.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:04 PM on October 6, 2013


that radio times article goes on to say  “There are always rumours and speculation about Doctor Who missing episodes being discovered – however we cannot confirm any new finds.”A spokeswoman added: “We can’t confirm because it’s not true, as far as I’m aware." it seems like they're saying they confirmed it with no information about what that confirmation is.
posted by nadawi at 3:09 PM on October 6, 2013


I wonder when the next dead-certain Blakes Seven remake will be along.
posted by Artw at 3:13 PM on October 6, 2013 [4 favorites]


Well, we can hope.

A possible find: the first half of Hartnell's third season. It's missing almost in its entirety (most of what we have are some unrelated Christmas episodes that interrupt the arc). It's by far the grimmest the show's ever been.

Mission to the Unknown: a bunch of friendly aliens are threatened by the Daleks. The Tardis does not appear. The Doctor does not appear. The Doctor will not always be here when you need him. The Daleks commit Genocide. End of episode.

The Myth Makers: the Doctor visits ancient Greece. Lighthearted for a few episodes, then a sudden bloodbath. In the rush to escape, he Doctor outright loses a companion who stayed behind. In subsequent episodes he will sometimes call out for her and only later remember that she isn't here. He also picks up a new companion who has no idea what's going on and worships the Doctor as a god.

The Dalek's Master Plan: the Daleks have figured out what's really possible with their time travel technology and have built an alliance of aggressive species from across space/time to conquer the universe. The first few episodes of this serial are brutally violent. The Doctor's new Greek companion gets kidnapped by a Dalek as a cliffhanger after the end of the first episode. The usual thing with these cliffhangers is that she'll escape in the first five minutes of the next episode. Instead she blows out an airlock, killing herself to take out the Dalek. We watch her asphyxiate. In the next few episodes multiple other companions and/or friendly would-be companions also die.

Interlude: Merry Christmas!

The Dalek's Master Plan part 2: The Doctor has stolen the Dalek McGuffin, but it's like the episode 33' from Battlestar Galactica. Wherever the Doctor lands in time and space the Daleks land right behind him, shooting up anyone that tries to shelter him. The Dalek master plan only fails because the Daleks get overconfident and turn on their allies. The Doctor takes advantage of this, though another companion dies in the process.

The Massacre of St Bartholomew's Eve: Aptly named. The trail of bodies behind the Doctor continues. The sole surviving companion blames the Doctor. What can he say?

Here's where real life events overtake the show. Actor Hartnell's health is as of now clearly failing. He's moving slowly and stumbling over his lines. Set that aside and judge what we see on the screen: the Doctor is a broken man. The Doctor does not recover from what he's been through. In Hartnell's final fight with the Cybermen he's further drained by some sort of death ray. There's nothing left of him, not even hope.

Regeneration...

And he's back. Younger, stronger, smarter. More importantly, kinder, gentler, more whimsical. He was brought to nothing and come out more himself on the other side.

That's how the Doctor became immortal. Happy 50th.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:18 PM on October 6, 2013 [42 favorites]


The scripts exist, right? Just get some rich dork to pony up the Pounds to refilm them. Problem solved.
posted by Renoroc at 3:19 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]




Scripts, audio and "telesnaps".
posted by Artw at 3:27 PM on October 6, 2013 [2 favorites]


Also, if that Radio Times story is true, its most likely the two episodes that were recovered in 2011, which I don't think have been released yet. Although only one of those is a Troughton episode.
posted by dng at 3:41 PM on October 6, 2013


Mission to the Unknown: a bunch of friendly aliens are threatened by the Daleks. The Tardis does not appear. The Doctor does not appear. The Doctor will not always be here when you need him. The Daleks commit Genocide. End of episode.

Are you fucking kidding me? That's insane.
posted by Think_Long at 3:47 PM on October 6, 2013


I love Hartnell era.
posted by Artw at 3:57 PM on October 6, 2013


I'll believe it when I see it.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:07 PM on October 6, 2013


The BBC was not the only British broadcaster to carry out this practice; ITV companies also destroyed programmes, including early videotape episodes of The Avengers.

I know the early Avengers episodes were very different from even the Catherine Gale era (not to mention the Emma Peel era), but if somehow they found those missing episodes as well and re-complied the entire series into a giant Blu-Ray boxset: DAY ONE PURCHASE.
posted by chrominance at 4:13 PM on October 6, 2013


hopes
posted by tilde at 5:00 PM on October 6, 2013


Artw: "I wonder when the next dead-certain Blakes Seven remake will be along."

Are you asking in honesty? Because Microsoft is supposedly going to do it.
posted by librarina at 5:29 PM on October 6, 2013


Yeah but only because everyone hated Blake's Vista.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:42 PM on October 6, 2013 [31 favorites]


The fact of a BBC press conference on Tuesday gives me some hope that more have been found. Even if the two episodes found in 2011 are the ones that will appear online this Wednesday, it sounds like there's more to it than that.

How much more? Tomorrow seems like a long time away...
posted by crossoverman at 5:47 PM on October 6, 2013


I fucking hate Dr. Who, but I'm really happy for you guys.
posted by butterstick at 6:11 PM on October 6, 2013 [13 favorites]


I'd love to see The Invasion again. It's a Trouton story, the first Dr Who story I ever saw and the images of the Cybermen from it are burned into my psyche.
posted by w0mbat at 6:21 PM on October 6, 2013


Are you asking in honesty? Because Microsoft is supposedly going to do it.

Probably not, sadly.
posted by Artw at 6:36 PM on October 6, 2013


If there's any confirmation, yes, it'll be the ones we know about, or if we're really lucky, one or two more. This 100 new episodes things is just wish-fulfillment.

One of the Hartnell stories--I don't remember the title, but it's the one about the French Revolution--has most of the episodes and the one that didn't survive was animated to go with the soundtrack. I wouldn't mind seeing some more of the missing episodes from partial serials reconstructed that way. That strikes me as another possible announcement.
posted by immlass at 6:42 PM on October 6, 2013


A friend introduced me to Mystery Science Theater, the Douglas Adams radio plays, and Dr. Who. Only the first two took. I'm a start at the beginning and watch the whole thing type of guy, so coming along after the start didn't seem like much fun to me.

Now if I can watch them all I might just give up those 6 months of my life.
posted by cjorgensen at 6:45 PM on October 6, 2013


Immlass - they have done that with several episodes now, with more coming soon. Reign of Terror, Tenth Planet, The Moonbase, The Ice Warriors, The Invasion... It really is good times to be a fan.
posted by Lokheed at 6:47 PM on October 6, 2013


Doctor Who is unique, however, in that all of its missing episodes survive in audio form, recorded off-air by fans at home.

Thanks, pirates!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:58 PM on October 6, 2013 [16 favorites]


cjorgensen -- OldWho only superficially resembles NewWho. You've got the Doctor, a time traveling alien with multiple lives/bodies. You've got his companions. You've got the TARDIS. You've got the Daleks and the Cybermen. Every other aspect of the show is radically different, including the demographic, the tone, and the length/format of episodes. (And even some fundamental aspects of the Doctor, the TARDIS, and the companions are drastically different in early episodes.)

You really need to know very little from the 60s - 80s series to enjoy the stuff that's been coming out since the Christopher Eccleston period. It might be fun to catch up on old episodes just to get a feel for the different phases the show went though, but Doctor Who is very much not a "start from the beginning" type of show.

The relationship of the early series to what's going on lately is much more like the relationship between Star Trek: TOS and all of the later Trek shows than like one long-running TV series.
posted by Sara C. at 8:23 PM on October 6, 2013 [6 favorites]


Every time one of these rumors comes about and I allow myself to get excited even though I totally know better, I understand a little bit more how Nigerian prince email scams fool people.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:33 PM on October 6, 2013 [6 favorites]


These missing episodes are in Ethiopia, not Nigeria! It's totally different! Our principal says that he wants to see you make a small deposit as a sign of confidence before he can release the tapes. Can you send the money via Western Union please?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:58 PM on October 6, 2013 [6 favorites]


"Edward Russell, Doctor Who brand manager said: "It's Sunday. The weather's gray and the papers are full of rubbish…" Asked if he was refering to the above story, he replied, "What do you think?!"

Difficult to say. I mean "rubbish" applies to a majority of the series' revision, particularly the last seasons of both Tennant's and Smith's run but I suppose Russel is most likely on the new stuff is just wonderful side and is probably referring to old episodes half of which are probably pretty terrible too, but some which might be good. All of them, no doubt, as was the fashion in old Who, feature "monsters" that move as fast as turtles which is of infinite importance historically. I'd be interested in them for that if nothing else but wont shed any tears if none of them are ever recovered (love the audio/animation restoration).

I'll never forget the Pertwee episode where Ice Warriors advance through bubble bath foam menacingly at about 1 metre every 10 minutes and still the U.N.I.T people can't gun them down or flee. Now that's wonderful stuff.
posted by juiceCake at 10:29 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Doctor Who is unique, however, in that all of its missing episodes survive in audio form, recorded off-air by fans at home...Thanks, pirates!

Keep circulating the tapes.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:36 PM on October 6, 2013 [1 favorite]


Doctor Who is unique, however, in that all of its missing episodes survive in audio form, recorded off-air by fans at home.


Shameless boasting; Mr andraste has credits on two Who DVDs for supplying some of those very audio recordings to the Who restoration team for the DVD releases. For some reason the recordings owned by a friend of ours here in Australia were better quality than the ones in the UK. The Invasion is the main one - that's the soundtrack he sent that you're hearing, if you have the DVD. Nerd pride!
posted by andraste at 5:09 AM on October 7, 2013 [13 favorites]


Bleeding Cool, in its rundown of the recovered Doctor Who "Omnirumour" that's been circulating in one form or another for the past year, claims that the serials the BBC is about to release digitally are The Enemy of the World and Web of Fear (the latter still minus one episode, though). (Coincidentally—or not—on Wednesday the BFI will be hosting a Missing Believed Wiped retrospective of once-lost BBC programmes.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:33 AM on October 7, 2013 [1 favorite]


Related (barely): Doctor Who? More like Doctor Huey Lewis and the News

(Horrible tabloid writers - I'm available for headline writing anytime.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:02 AM on October 7, 2013


BBC appears to legitimize the fact that something is happening ...
posted by jbickers at 7:30 AM on October 8, 2013 [2 favorites]


Well, huh. Supposedly the BBC reporter who wrote that is a big WHO fan, so presumably he wouldn't easily be confused by the already known recently recovered episodes that are being released on DVD soon. And presumably he's not just sourcing "BBC will announce soon" from second hand Daily Mirror reports. Which suggests pretty strongly that a new batch of three or more episodes have been recovered.

But we'll see.
posted by tavella at 11:23 AM on October 8, 2013


presumably he wouldn't easily be confused by the already known recently recovered episodes that are being released on DVD soon

The fact that the example he gives of previous recovered episodes is from 1991 and not the most recent instance is utterly, utterly maddening and hopefully intentional, considering how that could have clarified things a little.

Whatever it is, if the Beeb somehow manage to give us some new Old Who more-or-less unseen since original transmission as part of the 50th fripperies I shall be a happy fan indeed. If they somehow shoehorn obscure Hartnell and Troughton footage into Day Of The Doctor that would also be most excellent, although I'd happily settle for a knowing wink's worth of Cushing. We are so far beyond the point of fortunate with what's been recovered over the years that it's all delicious gravy.
posted by comealongpole at 4:58 PM on October 8, 2013


I love what you did with the title.
posted by arcticseal at 4:09 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


The cat's out of the bag thanks to this news item on actress Deborah Watling's website:
Deborah, along with Frazer Hines, will be helping the BBC to launch the newly found Dr. Who episodes this Thurs (10/10/13), betwwen 3.30pm and 7.00pm approx.
And if Victoria Waterfield and Jamie McCrimmon are the presenters, that anchors the rumours that the recovered serials are "The Enemy of the World" and "Web of Fear".
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:42 AM on October 9, 2013 [1 favorite]


Even a random 10 minutes of early Troughton would be welcome. But given that either of the Troughton Dalek episodes are really, really unlikely, new bits of "The Web of Fear" (which is one of the rare 6 episode stories that doesn't feel padded to me, even in reconstruction) or "The Enemy of the World" (which is just crazy enough to work) would maybe be the top of my wish list.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:56 AM on October 9, 2013


9 episodes!
posted by Artw at 4:11 PM on October 10, 2013 [1 favorite]


just 10 minutes ago i was searching news sites trying to figure out what happened to the press conference! well 9, and mostly completing those stories, is frankly more than i thought they had, so good on 'em!
posted by nadawi at 4:14 PM on October 10, 2013




I was expecting 2, so I'm pretty happy.
posted by Artw at 4:18 PM on October 10, 2013


Trailer for The Web of Fear.
posted by crossoverman at 4:22 PM on October 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


This is pathetic, I was expecting at the very least new stories that have fallen through from another dimension such as Tom Baker's 'The Abhorrance of Arkham', Pertwee's 'Fighty Drive Drive' and McCoys 'It Made Sense To Somebody'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:25 PM on October 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


"But, Professor..."
posted by Artw at 4:30 PM on October 10, 2013 [2 favorites]


TOASTLIGHT - The Doctor and Ace travel back in time to an early 80s bedsit. Ace remembers starting to make a snack there before it mysteriously burned down. Investigating, they find bread undergoing a strange metamorphosis underneath the eerie light of a gas grill...
posted by Artw at 4:39 PM on October 10, 2013 [4 favorites]


Trailer for The Web of Fear.

Now that is more like it! I haven't been this delighted since "Tomb of the Cybermen" was recovered. It was truly maddening that the two Yeti adventures were among the Second Doctor's lost serials since the set photographs of the enormous furballs could never convey what the fuss was all about at the time.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:44 PM on October 10, 2013


I'm really curious about the fact that the "official BBC press release" referred to what was recovered as "tapes." To my knowledge Doctor Who exports were usually done on 16mm film "telerecordings" ("kinescopes" in American TV terms) (more about telerecordings in the Doctor Who context).

I'm guessing this is just careless use of language on the part of the people being interviewed (though you'd think "Philip Morris, director of Television International Enterprises Archive" would know better!); however, finding actual magnetic videotapes from the Sixties (presumably Quad tapes) would be quite a find indeed -- particularly if they were still playable.
posted by orthicon halo at 4:59 PM on October 10, 2013


TOASTLIGHT - The Doctor and Ace travel back in time to an early 80s bedsit. Ace remembers starting to make a snack there before it mysteriously burned down. Investigating, they find bread undergoing a strange metamorphosis underneath the eerie light of a gas grill...

And it was all the fault of Margaret Thatcher and some Nazis and someone who seems to know more about the Doctor's past, all played by famous British actors that Americans have never heard of.


But seriously, the episodes that were found were my best-case-scenario-but-realistic so I'm thrilled.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 5:59 PM on October 10, 2013 [3 favorites]


Watching the trailer for "The Web of Fear" but knowing nothing about the timeline of the discovery, I've got to wonder something.

Moffat making the Great Intelligence the Big Bad in the last series: BBC Worldwide doing some fairly genius pre-marketing or just brilliant dumb luck? Probably the latter but you never know.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:09 PM on October 10, 2013


Given the restoration team must have been working on these a while, I imagine Moffat might have had some idea - but unless these episodes were discovered more than a year ago, I think it must be dumb luck.
posted by crossoverman at 6:51 PM on October 10, 2013


Oh, so this why the other thread is dead and lacking in squee.

I am here to contribute more squee.
posted by Mezentian at 8:31 PM on October 10, 2013


Moffat making the Great Intelligence the Big Bad in the last series: BBC Worldwide doing some fairly genius pre-marketing or just brilliant dumb luck? Probably the latter but you never know.

I may be making this up, but in addition to the fact the Yeti have been rumoured to return for a few years, I was sure there was a short-lived rumour last year that some clips from Web had been discovered that was brought up again around the time of The Snowmen.

But it was probably just dumb luck. Like finding these episodes.
posted by Mezentian at 8:35 PM on October 10, 2013


There's a bit more on how the cans of film were found here, some info on the DVD release data (and stunning covers) here and a trailer for Enemy of the World here (some some clips for Enemy and Web).
posted by Mezentian at 9:23 PM on October 10, 2013


WHY IS SNAPE IN THE TARDIS IS THIS SOME FANFIC
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:31 PM on October 10, 2013


Further to this there are some rumblings (from Ian Levine) that there just might be some additional episodes which either haven't been restored or procured.
And, curiously, Philip Morris wasn't at the presser.

We know that a considerable amount of material (“three tons”) was imported into the UK by Morris already (I think there was some Dad's Army included) in late 2011, so there is every chance that there might be more episodes to come.
posted by Mezentian at 12:06 AM on October 11, 2013


Doctor Who's Missing Episodes: A fan reaction
One of those times when you recalibrate your own nerdiness levels... thought I was about a 6, guess I'm a 2
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:15 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


Here's another one

The Web of Fear was co-written by Henry Lincoln who later authored the influential pseudo-historical book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail about the Knights Templar, and is thus partly to blame for The Da Vinci Code.

Woah!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:28 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


One of those times when you recalibrate your own nerdiness levels... thought I was about a 6, guess I'm a 2

If I used iTunes, and if I had holidays or sick days at work that would have been me.

But I don't have either, and I have decided to pre-order the DVDs, and Dr Who DVDs are so expensive I have only been buying the new series, relying on old VHSs and torrents (for ease of use). DVDs will provide me with the best viewing experience.

I am a cynic. But a small part of me continues to hope that there are more episodes coming.

I even told my parents over dinner how excited I am. I am so amazingly happy I simply can not stop telling people how happy I am.

I am happier now than when the TVM came out, or when my friends downloaded the first few new era episodes because they new the ABC would be weeks or months behind. I am probably happier now than when I discovered that The Tomb Of The Cybermen or The Invasion were recovered and were going to be released on DVD.

So... so happy. I can only conclude this is how happy people are when they have children with the birthing and the creation.
posted by Mezentian at 6:22 AM on October 11, 2013 [4 favorites]


The Web of Fear was co-written by Henry Lincoln who later authored the influential pseudo-historical book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail about the Knights Templar, and is thus partly to blame for The Da Vinci Code.

Interesting chap - I think the other guy just went off and wrote Hartbeat or whatever. There's a podcast about them here.

IMHO, and just from the novelizations, Abominable Snowmen is the better story, with slightly more wacky mysticism and Lovecraftian menace and less running back and forth, but I'll be interested to see how Web of Fear works on screen.
posted by Artw at 7:10 AM on October 11, 2013


with slightly more wacky mysticism and Lovecraftian menace

VIRGIN (reader)!

but I'll be interested to see how Web of Fear works on screen.

I assume amazing. It led to The Invasion, which cast such a long shadow over the Pertwee era. I still see echoes of it in Voyage of the Damned. The surviving (before this) bits of Web were amazing.

And Courtney nailed his character out of the blocks, and he owned it until the end, in Battlefield (so much pathos in so shite a story), the Big Finishes, or in Sarah Jane.

I am still pissed they never got him into the core show after the revival. And, personally, for them not to get William Russel on screen is also another thorn in my paw. A scene of Capaldi and Russel having a beer in a quiet English pub would pretty much make my day.
posted by Mezentian at 7:23 AM on October 11, 2013


I am still pissed they never got him into the core show after the revival. And, personally, for them not to get William Russel on screen is also another thorn in my paw. A scene of Capaldi and Russel having a beer in a quiet English pub would pretty much make my day.

Courtney was pretty ill towards the end. Not sure about William Russell, but he still seems to be active. it's kind of hard just to shoehorn an actor in for the sake of getting them in. Their role in the story has to mean something.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:06 AM on October 11, 2013


William Russell is, strangely, in An Adventure in Time and Space, as is Carole Ann Ford, though not as themselves.
posted by Grangousier at 8:16 AM on October 11, 2013


Courtney was pretty ill towards the end.

Yeah, but the years before that? A no-brainer.
posted by Mezentian at 8:29 AM on October 11, 2013


But I don't have either, and I have decided to pre-order the DVDs, and Dr Who DVDs are so expensive I have only been buying the new series, relying on old VHSs and torrents (for ease of use). DVDs will provide me with the best viewing experience.

I say this in a lot of Who threads, and I will say it again here: if you get the Classic Who DVDs, give info text a spin. There's so much extra information in them, and lots of blooper pointers. It's really worth your time.
posted by immlass at 8:35 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


if you get the Classic Who DVDs,

I am waiting for season boxed sets.
I know, I am insane.
posted by Mezentian at 8:40 AM on October 11, 2013


I understand why this thread was made, but I still would like to point out that the upside of having a "interesting thing may/will happen soon!" FPP that we can start discussing early is probably less than the downside of having the news that an interesting thing did happen be buried in the comments of a post five days behind the front page.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:41 AM on October 11, 2013 [2 favorites]


I am waiting for season boxed sets.

I think they need to make their money back on the restoration work first first. At least that's why I've always assumed the single serial DVDs have such a premium cost. That and the captive fan audience. Bit like the Goon Show in that respect really.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:43 AM on October 11, 2013


Do you think--should they ever manage to have anything approaching complete seasons to release--that the season re-releases would happen on Blu-Ray? Now before you start with the hackles, I know the things were never shot in anything that could be reasonably converted to HD in the first place, so I don't mean they'd do that for reasons of quality. But couldn't they fit several times more DVD-quality episodes onto each Blu-Ray disc, making for sets of fewer discs? (And if dumb people thought they should buy the things over again to replace their DVDs, so much the better for the bottom line.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:47 AM on October 11, 2013


VIRGIN (reader)!

Target.

This is the best page.
posted by Artw at 9:02 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


Do you think--should they ever manage to have anything approaching complete seasons to release--that the season re-releases would happen on Blu-Ray?

I'd be hoping for the streaming situation to get better.
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on October 11, 2013


Sir!

There is NOTHING in Terrance Dicks' prose in Doctor Who And The Web Of Fear (p42 or not) that suggests the Lovecraftian nature of the Great Intelligence OR The Animus of the Zarbi. That was constrained in the pages of the Virgin New Adventures. And the Missing Adventures.
posted by Mezentian at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2013


The Great Intelligence is pretty Lovecraftian for the get go - a dissembodied intelligence from another time, constantly trying to get IN, manifesting via a pyramid in a cave as torrents of bubbling goo...
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


I have just noticed: Enemy of the Word and Web of Fear are consecutive stories.
I do not think it is beyond possibility that Fury From The Deep episodes (for example) might have been in mislabeled tins. Or, assuming Fury was bicycled in the same batch of episodes, it might not still exist.
posted by Mezentian at 9:26 AM on October 11, 2013


The fact that the Doctor and the Brigadier actually the actual first meeting between the Doctor and the Brigadier happens in episode 3 of "The Web of Fear" -- the one they haven't found -- is a little sad. The fact that I realized this by looking at which chapter it happened in the novelization in ArtW's comment shows I am way too familiar with Terrance Dicks's pacing.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 9:57 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


Am I the only one confused by the loss of Ep 3? Hoping they went through all of the 3t of film, and hoping the BBC is animating the lost episode as we speak?

I'm calling it now, if any more turn up in the future it'll be Fury from the Deep.
posted by Mezentian at 10:16 AM on October 11, 2013


It turned out that the shipping website that was used as evidence for the "three tons" rumor was just a bid site where anyone who registered could put a similar record up. So it's not clear there was ever any such amount.

Still, this makes the rumors that Marco Polo was recovered as well a lot more believable. As that was the third serial grouped with the correctly predicted/rumored Web of Fear and Enemy of the world recoveries earlier this year. And I can see why the BBC might want to hold back if it is still being restored. They'd want to announce some of them before the anniversary, and they'd want to announce the ones they had ready for sale. They want to take advantage of the excitement to sell copies, rather than announce "oh, in a year or two you can get these episodes".
posted by tavella at 11:00 AM on October 11, 2013 [1 favorite]


It turned out that the shipping website that was used as evidence for the "three tons" rumor was just a bid site where anyone who registered could put a similar record up.

Citation?

Still, this makes the rumors that Marco Polo was recovered as well a lot more believable.

It does. And I would be down with that. I was surprised how amazing The Aztecs was.

And I can see why the BBC might want to hold back if it is still being restored.

I can't. My working scenario is that whoever holds the film wants to see how lucrative these episodes are before handing them over. It would make sense even if we weren't dealing with Nigeria, which is pretty corrupt.

If it was just the BBC they would GO CRAZY for the 50th. The fans who are waiting for this (like me) are SALIVATING, and we will wait until the Restoration Team do that voodoo that they do. We are used to it. 21 or 90 episodes makes no real difference to new era fans from the get-it-now generation.

They want to take advantage of the excitement to sell copies, rather than announce "oh, in a year or two you can get these episodes".

Oh... no. Not at all. I do not think so. Also, there is an entitlement issue with license payers.
posted by Mezentian at 11:29 AM on October 11, 2013


Guys ... hang on ... I just realized ... the Great Intelligence is finally victorious in the final scene of "Cabin in the Woods."
posted by jbickers at 12:04 PM on October 11, 2013


The record is here; click on Carrying and then FCL Shipping Requests. You'll see:


Place of origin: Lagos
Odudu Terminal (NG) — Liverpool (GB)
Final destination: Liverpool
Commodity: old films
Ready for collection: 16-Sep-2011 — 16-Oct-2011
Gross weight: 3 Metric Ton(s)


which looks very convincing, right? Then go here on the site, and you'll see the fake accounts and identical shipping requests that people created at the time the rumor was first going around. Now, that doesn't mean the first shipping rate request definitely is fake, but it can't be taken as real evidence. It's just a site where people create accounts, say what they propose to ship, and get rate bids, not a record of actual shipment or even confirmation that the shipment ever existed.
posted by tavella at 12:12 PM on October 11, 2013


It's just a site where people create accounts, say what they propose to ship, and get rate bids, not a record of actual shipment or even confirmation that the shipment ever existed.

You just want to piss on my hopes and dreams.
With Acid.
Burny acid.
I want to hope that the 2011 rumours were accurate, and Dr Who or not, some quantity of film from Africa was shipped (as seems likely), as as matches the rumours of the time Dr Who was the core of it.

I want to believe, damnit.
posted by Mezentian at 12:20 PM on October 11, 2013




Sherlock looks to Doctor Who as it heads underground

And this is epic news for me as Wheatley is basically my fave director at the moment:
Ben Wheatley to direct Peter Capaldi in Doctor Who series 8
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:07 AM on October 14, 2013 [1 favorite]


I've not heard of Wheaters or any of his films.
What should I be looking for?

(I am now off to see Donna get BADLY MISTREATED, because.)
posted by Mezentian at 5:13 AM on October 14, 2013


I've not heard of Wheaters or any of his films.
What should I be looking for?


I'd recommend:
A Field in England is his latest and imho genius work though it's not for everybody - black and white period piece set in the English Civil war with magic and magic mushrooms.
Sightseers is a dark dark very dark black comedy
Kill List starts of as a, you've guessed it, dark thriller about a hit man and gets even darker.

Be interesting to see what he can bring to Who
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:29 AM on October 14, 2013 [2 favorites]


Just uploaded: a special teaser for the 50th.

Interesting only Clara and Sarah Jane turn up, companion-wise.

References to The Moment (from the Time War) and running away (in the face of the Untempered Schism?) have me worried.
posted by Mezentian at 7:47 PM on October 19, 2013


I have to say that's the most uninspiring teaser. I've seen so many great fan made trailers with footage from the last 50 years that this CGI special from the BBC leaves me entirely cold.

Also, it seems to be promising a lot of stuff based on 50 years of continuity - and yet I'm sure it'll just end up being Moffat's wet dream.
posted by crossoverman at 10:14 PM on October 19, 2013


I am concerned too. The First Question fan trailer excited me more, but objectively did does look nice. It gives me a sense of history, and McGann's voice is mixed in there. So, while I have only watched it a dozen times, my excitement levels are building:
Job done.

But I enjoyed The Five Doctors, multiple times. And still do.
posted by Mezentian at 4:25 AM on October 20, 2013


I am not going to lie, I watched this on endless repeat.
I saw a Kraal!
I had not seen that before. Which is a bit random. I mean, I like the Kraal, but I also like the Nimon (just not the story the Nimon were in).

So, I am calling it: McGann is back. Somehow. He did ADR for a trailer. If he's not involved further, I don't know.... but I will really be surprised.

My pet theory is that Eccles has done a scene (ala PotW hologram) and there is a bit of past Doctor V.O work (covered by the protests and not just a skit because why else would you get Sean Pertwee in, and has anyone seen David T lately? - no, not the new one. the one from Midnight!)

Am I over thinking this? Yes.
Am I a life long fan? Yes.
Is Moffatt a life long fan? Yes!
Is McGann not doing much? Yes.
Does not using him at all make sense? Not really.

I am a realist. The McGann renewal may never happen on screen. If I were Moffatt: I'd make that happen. I'd piss in that corner.

Then the day arrives, or as it approaches, we are going to get more then we expect. I am sure of that. And I will be getting up at 2am with a bottle of the FINEST Scotch. I take this serious.
posted by Mezentian at 7:25 AM on October 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


Since we're all assuming (we are, right?) that John Hurt's Doctor is between McGann and Eccelstone, I have to believe we'll get the McGann transforms into John Hurt - and some approximation of Hurt into Eccelstone.

My pet theory is that once Hurt is in continuity, this makes Capaldi the thirteen Doctor - and technically the last regeneration, if Classic Who continuity is still to be believed. Yes, RTD tried to retcon that away, but I suspect Moffat wants to do that story - the Doctor thinking his life is about to come to an end. Why else cast the oldest actor ever in the role, if you're not going to do a story about ageing, etc?

As to what the Day of the Doctor is about? At least the trailer doesn't give much away - except for that mysterious bit of graffitti: NO MORE.
posted by crossoverman at 3:57 PM on October 20, 2013


24 easter eggs in the trailer.
posted by painquale at 4:42 PM on October 20, 2013


I suspect it's less about the last regeneration than making 11 into 12 so that Moffat can do the Valeyard story before he leaves. Thus Capaldi, since he'd be a much more reasonable doppleganger of Michael Jayston than another Tennant/Smith type.

The famous quote from the Master is "somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation", not "thirteenth and last", after all. So Moffat does the Valeyard story and either as part of that or using one of the many other loopholes pointed out, the Doctor gets an indefinite future number of regenerations.
posted by tavella at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2013 [1 favorite]


An Adventure In Space And Time
posted by Artw at 9:42 PM on October 29, 2013


More on An Adventure In Space And Time (cast interviews). The posters are sublime, and at least in Australia it will be shown a few hours after the UK.
posted by Mezentian at 11:11 PM on October 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


So it's not weird to be more excited about An Adventure in Space and Time than any Doctor Who that is actually being released this year, is it? Because I'm pretty much there.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:09 AM on October 31, 2013


À la recherche du Doctor Who
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:40 AM on November 2, 2013




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