Comments on: Comments on 13273

Post number 13273

zanpo — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:32:26 -0800

The Dark Side of the Washington National Cathedral. Is this real? If so, why would they put an icon of evil on the outside of this place, "intended for national purposes, such as public prayer, thanksgiving, funeral orations, etc.,and assigned to the special use of no particular Sect of denomination, but equally open to all."

By: aramaic

aramaic — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:37:33 -0800

Um, ever hear of a gargoyle? Or see one?

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:38:49 -0800

Well Star Wars is a religion. To some people.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:46:27 -0800

Gargoyles then and now

By: Greener

Greener — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:47:51 -0800

Too funny

By: waxpancake

waxpancake — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:49:15 -0800

The page is gone from the official Washington Cathedral website, but here's the Google cache, which talks about the history of the Darth Vader grotesque. As Washington Cathedral neared completion, "a startling idea was hatched: hold a competition for children to design decorative sculpture for the Cathedral." "Word of the competition was spread nationwide through National Geographic World Magazine. The third-place winner was Christopher Rader, with his drawing of that fearful villain, Darth Vader. The fierce head was sculpted by Jay Hall Carpenter, carved by Patrick J. Plunkett and placed high upon the northwest tower of the Cathedral."

By: bingo

bingo — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:49:47 -0800

This has got to be a joke. Why would they put a picture of a gargoyle on their main page? And why would it be that one? It's not even mentioned in their FAQ...

By: mragreeable

mragreeable — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:52:37 -0800

That is simply amazing. This guy claims to have worked on that particluar cathedral, and would appear to have been making some pretty unorthodox gargoyles. http://www.stonecarver.com/cathedral.html

By: dataport72

dataport72 — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:00:01 -0800

The site has a PDF that explains it as well. (warning - approx 2mb) http://www.cathedral.org/cathedral/pdfs/darth.pdf

By: datawrangler

datawrangler — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:21:06 -0800

Just to clarify, in reference to the stonecarver site--Walter S. Arnold did not carve the Darth Vader gargoyle (although there was no suggestion in the link that he did; just the same...). It was a guy who lives in Maryland, whose name escapes me...

By: datawrangler

datawrangler — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:26:36 -0800

OK, the carver's name is Patrick J. Plunkett (the guy in Maryland). The sculpter's name is Jay Hall Carpenter. It's at the end of the pdf, so for those of you with a sloooooow connection...

By: zanpo

zanpo — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:31:26 -0800

I think it they should build a 'grotesque annex'... they could have sculptures of Osama bin Laden, Gary Conditt, Donald Rumsfeld, Jerry Falwell, O.J. Simpson... who else?

By: Carol Anne

Carol Anne — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:33:41 -0800

"Subversive" stonecarvers used to put the Green Man on cathedrals; now it's Hollywood (holly wood?) characters. "In art and sculpture the Green Man is a composite image - a face formed out of a mask of leaves, or a face disgorging or devouring leaves and vines. He is an ancient figure, linked with the Great Goddess as son, lover, and guardian. Whether as a 'foliate head' carved in a European Gothic cathedral, or as a giant who tests the hero, challenging him to impossible tasks, the Green Man is the intelligence within the dark forest, in the tree of life. He represents irrepressible life, renewal and rebirth, inspiration; he is the guardian and revealer of the mysteries of Nature, and he is the union of humanity and the natural world."

By: mragreeable

mragreeable — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:34:10 -0800

No, certainly I wasn't trying to say that Mr. Arnold didn't carve the Darth Vader. Just illustrating that the guys running the National Cathedral were clearly willing to pursue more modern interpretations of gargoyles. Very cool stuff. What a great thread.

By: jfuller

jfuller — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:37:28 -0800

Bizarre images are carved in much older churches all over Europe. The workmen who labored on these buildings brought a lot of unorthodox notions, superstitions, and not infrequently out-and-out paganism to the job with them and included these ideas in the decorations they carved -- especially way up high in dark corners where the bishop or the dean wasn't likely to climb up and check on 'em. Any good library will have photographic collections you can look at.

By: ericost

ericost — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:09:39 -0800

From the PDF: In the 1980s the Cathedral, with National Geographic World magazine, sponsored a competition for children to design decorative sculpture for the Cathedral. The third-place winner was Christopher Rader of Kearney, Nebraska who submitted a drawing of this futuristic representation of evil. Darth Vader was placed on the northwest tower with the other winning designs: a raccoon, a girl with pigtails and braces and a man with large teeth and an umbrella.

By: mmascolino

mmascolino — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:15:10 -0800

I was a grade schooler in the 80s (and an avid reader of National Geographic World). I remember the contest quite clearly and alas I didn't win.

By: am_nomad

am_nomad — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:03:18 -0800

This place is chock full of green men.

By: boardman

boardman — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:17:23 -0800

How cool is this? Who ever said that organized religion has no sense of humor? If you can't think of anyone else during this year of horrors, Mr. Vader would make a great Time Person of the Year 2001.

By: agaffin

agaffin — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:31:51 -0800

The Woolworth Building in dowtown Manhattan is full of cool gargoyles satirizing everybody from the architect to F.W. Woolworth himself.

By: wantwit

wantwit — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:46:27 -0800

Zanpo, don't forget to include the Ramsays, Dalmer, and Richard Simmons.

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:54:48 -0800

and here I was thinking somebody had some fun with Photoshop......

By: daragh

daragh — Thu, 20 Dec 2001 16:13:28 -0800

I hear there's a plan afoot to replace the statue of liberty with a pokemon 3 times her size.