BitTorrent site Isohunt shutting down after MPAA lawsuit defeat
October 18, 2013 12:33 PM Subscribe
isoHunt shuts down, Vancouver operator ordered to pay $110 million US fine A Vancouver resident has agreed to shut down his popular downloading website and pay a $110-million fine after settling a long legal fight with the Motion Picture Association of America.
Gary Fung ran isohunt.com, a search engine for BitTorrent files, which helped users find virtually every type of copyrighted material, including music, movies, computer software, ebooks and pornography.
As of Friday, the site stated it linked to 13.7 million active BitTorrent files with 51 million users either uploading or download them.
According to Alexa.com, it ranked as the 423rd top site on the web for global traffic and 167th in Canada.
On his blog, Fung said he was "sad to see my baby go."
Here’s why isoHunt deserved to die
More from:
Hollywood Reporter on the decision
Wired
The Verge
Here’s why isoHunt deserved to die
More from:
Hollywood Reporter on the decision
Wired
The Verge
Wow. I didn't know isohunt was still around.
posted by lkc at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by lkc at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
How did he end up with $110 million? Was it a pay site?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
Demonoid's gone forever, isn't it?
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:49 PM on October 18, 2013 [15 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:49 PM on October 18, 2013 [15 favorites]
Never knew it was Vancouver-, or even Canada-based.
posted by mannequito at 12:50 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by mannequito at 12:50 PM on October 18, 2013
Let this serve as a warning: blatantly and explicitly conspire to commit intellectual property theft for money, and you too could be shut down after ten years.
But if you're at Goldman Sachs or the like, feel free to rip off millions of dollars from your clients and not pay a dime or do a dime of time.
posted by juiceCake at 12:52 PM on October 18, 2013 [46 favorites]
But if you're at Goldman Sachs or the like, feel free to rip off millions of dollars from your clients and not pay a dime or do a dime of time.
posted by juiceCake at 12:52 PM on October 18, 2013 [46 favorites]
Demonoid's gone forever, isn't it?
There's happier places out there, trust me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
There's happier places out there, trust me.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
Hard to believe they made $110 million on pop-up porn ads. Is the settlement expected to be paid in full or is lingering debt a punitive feature?
posted by cardboard at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by cardboard at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2013
.
How did he end up with $110 million? Was it a pay site?
Just because a ridiculous fine was levied against him by the content industry / justice system doesn't mean that he has that money. See every other similar legal verdict ever.
Let this serve as a warning
Great law-and-order reminder, but I think the MPAA / RIAA / Justice system have that covered, thanks.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2013
How did he end up with $110 million? Was it a pay site?
Just because a ridiculous fine was levied against him by the content industry / justice system doesn't mean that he has that money. See every other similar legal verdict ever.
Let this serve as a warning
Great law-and-order reminder, but I think the MPAA / RIAA / Justice system have that covered, thanks.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:54 PM on October 18, 2013
People I know here in Canada use isoHunt all the time to download stuff. AFAIK for the time being we are allowed to download content in Canada; we are not allowed to upload and share content (theoretically we pay surcharges and taxes on various media and devices to cover this
"fair use").
I think Canada was working to somehow fix this situation (this is one of the reasons why we can't see Hulu legally in Canada) but Canada's former hardline but ridiculously incompetent Justice Minister Vic Toews really and totally screwed up the bill. Since then Parliament has been prorogued a couple of times, killing successor bills.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:56 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
"fair use").
I think Canada was working to somehow fix this situation (this is one of the reasons why we can't see Hulu legally in Canada) but Canada's former hardline but ridiculously incompetent Justice Minister Vic Toews really and totally screwed up the bill. Since then Parliament has been prorogued a couple of times, killing successor bills.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:56 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I think one of the great things about isoHunt, besides the sheer quality of results was how trustable the results were. There were user comments, but, unlike other torrent sites, it was very clear where the torrent download link was - there was no danger of being sent to a new site that hosted malware or something.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by KokuRyu at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2013
Since the top-grossing movies are almost always copyrighted
Almost?
I'll be sad to see ISOhunt go, even though I don't use it much anymore.
When looking to watch a movie now I always try a legitimate source first. If it's not available* only then do I attempt to torrent it, feeling that it's the film company's loss if they don't want to take my money**. The funny thing is it's actually easier to find a torrent, download it, and make it available on my Apple TV than it is to buy or rent it from iTunes. Fewer clicks.
*Assuming it's been released for home video. I have no interest in getting them before then.
**I realize this is no excuse to take what doesn't belong to me but, you know, fuck it. I wanna watch Hot Tub Time Machine.
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Almost?
I'll be sad to see ISOhunt go, even though I don't use it much anymore.
When looking to watch a movie now I always try a legitimate source first. If it's not available* only then do I attempt to torrent it, feeling that it's the film company's loss if they don't want to take my money**. The funny thing is it's actually easier to find a torrent, download it, and make it available on my Apple TV than it is to buy or rent it from iTunes. Fewer clicks.
*Assuming it's been released for home video. I have no interest in getting them before then.
**I realize this is no excuse to take what doesn't belong to me but, you know, fuck it. I wanna watch Hot Tub Time Machine.
posted by bondcliff at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
A Vancouver resident has agreed to shut down his popular downloading website
GAAAH! isoHunt was (one of many) BitTorrent index sites. You download nothing but metadata from isoHunt, so I guess it could have been a popular site to where you could download metadata. "Downloading website" is a phrase that sounds a decade old now.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
GAAAH! isoHunt was (one of many) BitTorrent index sites. You download nothing but metadata from isoHunt, so I guess it could have been a popular site to where you could download metadata. "Downloading website" is a phrase that sounds a decade old now.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2013 [4 favorites]
I am so lazy that I have actually torrented content instead of looking for it on my hard drive. Which seems to fill up unusually fast.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 1:00 PM on October 18, 2013 [23 favorites]
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 1:00 PM on October 18, 2013 [23 favorites]
Chocolate Pickle: How did he end up with $110 million? Was it a pay site?
From the Ars Technica coverage:
posted by filthy light thief at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2013
From the Ars Technica coverage:
It's not clear how much of that the studios will actually be able to collect. According to a chunk of court transcript cited by Techdirt, the movie studios' lawyers estimated that Fung and his company had only "two million dollars to $4 million, $5 million at the most" that they could possibly pay.The article goes on to say that "Fung gave up his long legal fight just weeks from having to defend his site in federal court" and "The MPAA had stated studio lawyers would have sought as much as $600 million had the case gone to trial."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2013
I am sympathetic to isoHunt and Fung, but at the same time, a public site with a "click here to upload a popular film that's in theaters now!" box is indeed Poking the Bear With A Stick. Don't Poke the Bear With A Stick.
Meanwhile, lots of people just said "man, that sucks" and immediately looked up their favorite private torrent sites to make sure they were still up.
Every form of prohibition just creates another underground.
posted by delfin at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, lots of people just said "man, that sucks" and immediately looked up their favorite private torrent sites to make sure they were still up.
Every form of prohibition just creates another underground.
posted by delfin at 1:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
There's still plenty of overground. There are even a few sites that search sites that index torrents, so there's a couple layers of redundancy built bittorrenting.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:05 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by filthy light thief at 1:05 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
DO-ON'T STOP! BELIEVIN'
HOLD ON TO YOUR DREA-A-A-MS!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
HOLD ON TO YOUR DREA-A-A-MS!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dear ishohunt:
Thank you for every episode of Doctor Who ever, replacing my VHS tapes before I could afford to start buying DVDs.
Love
MCMikeNamara
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:07 PM on October 18, 2013 [7 favorites]
Thank you for every episode of Doctor Who ever, replacing my VHS tapes before I could afford to start buying DVDs.
Love
MCMikeNamara
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:07 PM on October 18, 2013 [7 favorites]
there was no danger of being sent to a new site that hosted malware or something.
If you're not using AdBlock what are you torrenting for. Just pay retail like every other consumer.
posted by clarknova at 1:14 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
If you're not using AdBlock what are you torrenting for. Just pay retail like every other consumer.
posted by clarknova at 1:14 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
The funny thing is it's actually easier to find a torrent, download it, and make it available on my Apple TV than it is to buy or rent it from iTunes. Fewer clicks.
It's not funny, it's sad. Pirates "win" because they understand the consumer better than huge media companies. See also Louis C.K. I would _never_ steal from Louis C.K.
posted by chavenet at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's not funny, it's sad. Pirates "win" because they understand the consumer better than huge media companies. See also Louis C.K. I would _never_ steal from Louis C.K.
posted by chavenet at 1:22 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
People I know here in Canada use isoHunt all the time to download stuff. AFAIK for the time being we are allowed to download content in Canada; we are not allowed to upload and share content (theoretically we pay surcharges and taxes on various media and devices to cover this
"fair use").
This only applies to music, but gets cited as applying to everything — which it does not. Even then, I doubt anyone has read the actual law in question. (Canadian Private Copying act.)
There is a tax on CD-Rs for this purpose, not DVDs. Movies do not come on CDs...
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:29 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
"fair use").
This only applies to music, but gets cited as applying to everything — which it does not. Even then, I doubt anyone has read the actual law in question. (Canadian Private Copying act.)
There is a tax on CD-Rs for this purpose, not DVDs. Movies do not come on CDs...
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:29 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
chavenet: It's not funny, it's sad. Pirates "win" because they understand the consumer better than huge media companies.
All i wanna do release the krakken
posted by filthy light thief at 1:32 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
All i wanna do release the krakken
posted by filthy light thief at 1:32 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I may have had some details wrong: some more background here. That said, "I was pretty sure this is OK" is not a good defence if challenged on the legality of what you're doing.
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:33 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by Dark Messiah at 1:33 PM on October 18, 2013
Aww.
I'm kind of a noob at this whole torrent thing, but say someone had some stuff in their torrent client they found on isoHunt and were still waiting for it to download--would isohunt shutting down affect the download completing?
posted by Hoopo at 1:33 PM on October 18, 2013
I'm kind of a noob at this whole torrent thing, but say someone had some stuff in their torrent client they found on isoHunt and were still waiting for it to download--would isohunt shutting down affect the download completing?
posted by Hoopo at 1:33 PM on October 18, 2013
So long and thanks for (literally) everything.
posted by Pathos Bill at 1:39 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by Pathos Bill at 1:39 PM on October 18, 2013
Aw man, IsoHunt. I even had a t-shirt and everything.
.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 1:40 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 1:40 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
would isohunt shutting down affect the download completing?
My guess is that it won't as long as others don't bail out on the stuff in question before you're done. I'd say you might expect more problems not finding anyone uploading than normal if your theoretical stuff was rare or slower downloads/less uploaders if your stuff was more common, if only because people are fleeing the sinking [sunken?] ship.
This is assuming that isohunt wasn't the tracker but was only the indexer, which may not be valid. If it was the tracker as well as the indexer then I think you're screwed unless you see the same *exact* stuff being hosted somewhere else and you can do a hash-resume.
I am not an isohunt user. I am not your isohunt client nor an expert. This is not practical advice.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:41 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
My guess is that it won't as long as others don't bail out on the stuff in question before you're done. I'd say you might expect more problems not finding anyone uploading than normal if your theoretical stuff was rare or slower downloads/less uploaders if your stuff was more common, if only because people are fleeing the sinking [sunken?] ship.
This is assuming that isohunt wasn't the tracker but was only the indexer, which may not be valid. If it was the tracker as well as the indexer then I think you're screwed unless you see the same *exact* stuff being hosted somewhere else and you can do a hash-resume.
I am not an isohunt user. I am not your isohunt client nor an expert. This is not practical advice.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:41 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Many, not all, of the torrent files that one might download via isohunt also include other trackers.
posted by box at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
What the hell? Some guy in a mask just burst into my office, typed the previous comment, and ran away. Man, Fridays.
posted by box at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2013 [28 favorites]
posted by box at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2013 [28 favorites]
I may have had some details wrong: some more background here. That said, "I was pretty sure this is OK" is not a good defence if challenged on the legality of what you're doing.
So you admit that you were wrong, citing Wikipedia (instead of an actual statute), but then admonish me to "be careful"? Thank you!
posted by KokuRyu at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2013
So you admit that you were wrong, citing Wikipedia (instead of an actual statute), but then admonish me to "be careful"? Thank you!
posted by KokuRyu at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2013
Dude, if you're not paying for something because it takes like three whole extra clicks to pay for it than it does to pirate it - or thirty clicks, for Christ's sake - then I have a list of impolite words to yell in your general direction.
posted by incessant at 1:54 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by incessant at 1:54 PM on October 18, 2013
I think Canada was working to somehow fix this situation (this is one of the reasons why we can't see Hulu legally in Canada)
I thought that was because the Canadian TV networks own the Canadian rights to a lot of the stuff on Hulu, and they can't (perhaps legally, re: collusion?) get their shit together to do anything but throw it up on their respective websites.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2013
I thought that was because the Canadian TV networks own the Canadian rights to a lot of the stuff on Hulu, and they can't (perhaps legally, re: collusion?) get their shit together to do anything but throw it up on their respective websites.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2013
Oh lord, so now RIAA can no longer claim they are losing $900 trillion a year to pirates? So no more fake losses to ask a tax break for? No more "piracy kills kittens" and "jebus watches you when you pirate!" ...lord, government must immediately setup an unemployment fund for the poor PR people that were so effective they practically gave away their jobs!
posted by elpapacito at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by elpapacito at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2013
You download nothing but metadata from isoHunt
And didn't the NSA tell us that metadata is harmless?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
And didn't the NSA tell us that metadata is harmless?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:58 PM on October 18, 2013 [10 favorites]
Dude, if you're not paying for something because it takes like three whole extra clicks to pay for it than it does to pirate it - or thirty clicks, for Christ's sake - then I have a list of impolite words to yell in your general direction.
Why in heaven's name would a vendor want to make buying harder than stealing? That's insane. But for a long time, that's exactly what content providers were doing (viz., DRM). That's like a store putting all its merchandise in an unoccupied space with a sign instructing people to drive four miles away to pay for it. A lot of folks won't bother.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
Why in heaven's name would a vendor want to make buying harder than stealing? That's insane. But for a long time, that's exactly what content providers were doing (viz., DRM). That's like a store putting all its merchandise in an unoccupied space with a sign instructing people to drive four miles away to pay for it. A lot of folks won't bother.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
"I thought that was because the Canadian TV networks own the Canadian rights to a lot of the stuff on Hulu, and they can't (perhaps legally, re: collusion?) get their shit together to do anything but throw it up on their respective websites."
I think you're right. In so many respects, the media and communications industries in Canada are an oligopoly, dominated by a handful of corporations.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2013
I think you're right. In so many respects, the media and communications industries in Canada are an oligopoly, dominated by a handful of corporations.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2013
Dude (or Dude-ette), if you're defending something that like adds in any extra clicks not related to enjoying the thing in question - or other pointless or broken security measures, for Flying Spaghetti Monster's sake - then I have a series of funny looks to point in your general direction.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:07 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I had always read that the reason why Canadians cannot watch streamed American content is because our copyright laws are much more lax than in the States.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:12 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by KokuRyu at 2:12 PM on October 18, 2013
I don't know what you've always been reading, KokoRyu, but it's always been wrong.
It's a licensing issue.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:18 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
It's a licensing issue.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:18 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think it's just that the Canadian content owners pay a lot of money to broadcast American shows, so they don't want their audience to have a free (or cheap) streaming option. (Or at least, they don't want streaming options that pay someone else a share of the advertising dollars.) The last thing they need is for viewers to have another reason to cut the cord and ditch cable.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:19 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 2:19 PM on October 18, 2013
Isohunt was pretty darn good, but it was no Demonoid. *sniff*
There's happier places out there, trust me.
Where?! I know you can't tell me, but tell me.
posted by zardoz at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
There's happier places out there, trust me.
Where?! I know you can't tell me, but tell me.
posted by zardoz at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2013 [8 favorites]
The content providers and the cable/internet companies do best in a market with the smallest number of options for consumers (since rarity means they can set higher prices), so nobody rocks the boat by making a domestic version of Hulu or Pandora. In a really free market, some newcomer is always small and desperate enough to try any business plan, but the barriers to entry in the Canadian market are too high to permit newcomers.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:29 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by Kevin Street at 2:29 PM on October 18, 2013
The funny thing is it's actually easier to find a torrent, download it, and make it available on my Apple TV than it is to buy or rent it from iTunes. Fewer clicks.
Well, now I'm curious.
---iTunes---
1. Boot iTunes.
2. Click "iTunes Store"
3. Click the search box
4. Type "Hot Tub Time Machine"
5. Click "$3.99 RENT HD"
6. Type in password if you haven't, otherwise the movie is yours.
---Amazon---
1. Boot browser.
2. Type "www.amaz" (Thanks, autocomplete!)
3. Click the search box
4. Type "Hot Tub Time"
5. Click "$2.99 to rent INSTANT VIDEO"
6. Click "1-Click $2.99"
How many does it take to do it through isoHunt? I mean, thirty-three extra clicks makes me understand that the interface is working against you. Six clicks, and it sounds like you're reaching for excuses.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:38 PM on October 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
Well, now I'm curious.
---iTunes---
1. Boot iTunes.
2. Click "iTunes Store"
3. Click the search box
4. Type "Hot Tub Time Machine
5. Click "$3.99 RENT HD"
6. Type in password if you haven't, otherwise the movie is yours.
---Amazon---
1. Boot browser.
2. Type "www.amaz
3. Click the search box
4. Type "Hot Tub Time
5. Click "$2.99 to rent INSTANT VIDEO"
6. Click "1-Click $2.99"
How many does it take to do it through isoHunt? I mean, thirty-three extra clicks makes me understand that the interface is working against you. Six clicks, and it sounds like you're reaching for excuses.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:38 PM on October 18, 2013 [5 favorites]
Oh it's so very brave to write a news article about how bad those evil pirates are. Very bold indeed.
This website guy who was encouraging people to steal movies so that he could make money was a valiant dude.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
This website guy who was encouraging people to steal movies so that he could make money was a valiant dude.
posted by Going To Maine at 2:39 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I'm not saying there haven't been a whole shed-load of awful things Hollywood and other content creators have done that've made consuming content on the internet difficult, but if buying something on iTunes and watching it on your TV takes you an extra fifteen seconds longer than pirating, I scratch my head at how devoted you really were to not pirating in the first place.
We're talking iTunes, people. My 101 year-old grandmother rents movies on iTunes. If you're complaining about how difficult and arduous the process of watching a show or movie on iTunes is, would you like her to come over to your house to show you how to do it?
Stop making excuses. (On preview - well played, Going to Maine.)
posted by incessant at 2:41 PM on October 18, 2013
We're talking iTunes, people. My 101 year-old grandmother rents movies on iTunes. If you're complaining about how difficult and arduous the process of watching a show or movie on iTunes is, would you like her to come over to your house to show you how to do it?
Stop making excuses. (On preview - well played, Going to Maine.)
posted by incessant at 2:41 PM on October 18, 2013
I'd say you might expect more problems...if your theoretical stuff was rare
Double aww.
It kinda sucks because I've pretty much only ever downloaded stuff I've bought and paid for at one point or another and lost over the years, or else has been out of print for most of my life. I don't want to have to spend 25 Euros on a CD imported from Germany to replace the one I lost when I lent it to someone way back when. Shit was hard to find when I bought it and it was new. Torrents and music blogs have been great for finding that sort of thing. I'm someone who has and does spend a lot of money on music. Anyone that's had a huge collection of music before th advent of MP3s knows that if you lent stuff you were likely to lose stuff. Sometimes we're just trying to get back what we once had, and that wasn't always possible before.
posted by Hoopo at 2:45 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
Double aww.
It kinda sucks because I've pretty much only ever downloaded stuff I've bought and paid for at one point or another and lost over the years, or else has been out of print for most of my life. I don't want to have to spend 25 Euros on a CD imported from Germany to replace the one I lost when I lent it to someone way back when. Shit was hard to find when I bought it and it was new. Torrents and music blogs have been great for finding that sort of thing. I'm someone who has and does spend a lot of money on music. Anyone that's had a huge collection of music before th advent of MP3s knows that if you lent stuff you were likely to lose stuff. Sometimes we're just trying to get back what we once had, and that wasn't always possible before.
posted by Hoopo at 2:45 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
I've never downloaded anything from Itunes or Amazon, so I'm curious: do the files you downloaded come with DRM? Can you copy them from your computer to the media box set up on your TV? Or back them up to physical media?
posted by Kevin Street at 2:46 PM on October 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Kevin Street at 2:46 PM on October 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
do the files you downloaded come with DRM?
iTunes does sometimes to some degree. I think it limits how many devices you can play it on or something, and also if you like to tinker and mix and sample etc sometimes the songs are protected when you try to drop them in an audio editor.
posted by Hoopo at 2:53 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
iTunes does sometimes to some degree. I think it limits how many devices you can play it on or something, and also if you like to tinker and mix and sample etc sometimes the songs are protected when you try to drop them in an audio editor.
posted by Hoopo at 2:53 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
What's weird about this is that nowhere does he seem to be chagrined at the size of the fine, and there's no mention anywhere of his revenue or ability to pay. Just how profitable is a bittorrent site? Can you really make much money putting ads in front of a userbase who are almost defined by their unwillingness to pay for things?
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:59 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:59 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
TBH I didn't even notice ads on there but my Firefox has so many blockers I don't even know what things really look like online anymore
posted by Hoopo at 3:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [9 favorites]
posted by Hoopo at 3:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [9 favorites]
I've never seen it, I'm only speculating on what its revenue base might be. But you raise another good point -- what proportion of heavy bittorrent users don't block ads? I'd be surprised if it was very high.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:07 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:07 PM on October 18, 2013
On an unrelated note: Amazon Streaming and Music aren't available in Canada, and Hot Tub Time Machine costs 25% more to rent on Canadian iTunes than American iTunes.
posted by blue_beetle at 3:14 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by blue_beetle at 3:14 PM on October 18, 2013
If the Big Mac index is to be believed, 25% is about right for the overvaluation of the CAD vs USD. They've been trading near parity for some time but that doesn't tell you what the Loonie will buy there.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:21 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:21 PM on October 18, 2013
But if you're at Goldman Sachs or the like, feel free to rip off millions of dollars from your clients and not pay a dime or do a dime of time.
Yes, but in the world of money, power and influence, the onus is on the victims of bank fraud. Pick up your lawyers, your lobbyists, your pitchforks and torches, and any other necessary implements to affect change.
Which is pretty much what the MMPA has done to deal with theft.
posted by captainsohler at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2013
Yes, but in the world of money, power and influence, the onus is on the victims of bank fraud. Pick up your lawyers, your lobbyists, your pitchforks and torches, and any other necessary implements to affect change.
Which is pretty much what the MMPA has done to deal with theft.
posted by captainsohler at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2013
Oh dear so where do I go now.?
Isohunt was a great service for me and I never even noticed any ads.
.
posted by adamvasco at 3:41 PM on October 18, 2013
Isohunt was a great service for me and I never even noticed any ads.
.
posted by adamvasco at 3:41 PM on October 18, 2013
I've never downloaded anything from Itunes or Amazon, so I'm curious: do the files you downloaded come with DRM? Can you copy them from your computer to the media box set up on your TV? Or back them up to physical media?
iTunes music is DRM-free, but watermarked with an association to your Apple account, so it's not a good idea to share them with others unless you have a means of stripping that out. iTunes movies and TV shows have DRM and are not playable on unauthorized devices. I've never used Amazon except for rentals which you use with their dedicated player app or a compatible TV set, but I think it's basically the same as iTunes.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:42 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
iTunes music is DRM-free, but watermarked with an association to your Apple account, so it's not a good idea to share them with others unless you have a means of stripping that out. iTunes movies and TV shows have DRM and are not playable on unauthorized devices. I've never used Amazon except for rentals which you use with their dedicated player app or a compatible TV set, but I think it's basically the same as iTunes.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:42 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes, but in the world of money, power and influence, the onus is on the victims of bank fraud. Pick up your lawyers, your lobbyists, your pitchforks and torches, and any other necessary implements to affect change.
Been done and is ongoing. Results are poor, and funding is very poor as well. These guys did the Congress dance. No results. Lawsuits have been made against them. We await results. The committees assigned to "find" evidence have been ineffective, and the SEC has proven to be useless.
My hope is that sensible other countries shift their business focus outside of the U.S. after having failed to influence the U.S. to smarten up in regard to these issues, and in regard to regulation. It's like hoping for the impossible.
posted by juiceCake at 3:49 PM on October 18, 2013
Been done and is ongoing. Results are poor, and funding is very poor as well. These guys did the Congress dance. No results. Lawsuits have been made against them. We await results. The committees assigned to "find" evidence have been ineffective, and the SEC has proven to be useless.
My hope is that sensible other countries shift their business focus outside of the U.S. after having failed to influence the U.S. to smarten up in regard to these issues, and in regard to regulation. It's like hoping for the impossible.
posted by juiceCake at 3:49 PM on October 18, 2013
I wonder if the willingness to download copyrighted material correlates significantly to the amount of student loan debt one has in deferment.
posted by jwhite1979 at 4:09 PM on October 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by jwhite1979 at 4:09 PM on October 18, 2013 [3 favorites]
On an unrelated note: Amazon Streaming and Music aren't available in Canada.
Granted, I don't know a whole ton of Canadians...but every single one I do know uses the same VPN to use just such services (and Netflix US). Do I know lots of rogues? Is this really that uncommon?
Hell, I even use a VPN here in the states to catch foreign stuff.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:11 PM on October 18, 2013
Granted, I don't know a whole ton of Canadians...but every single one I do know uses the same VPN to use just such services (and Netflix US). Do I know lots of rogues? Is this really that uncommon?
Hell, I even use a VPN here in the states to catch foreign stuff.
posted by furnace.heart at 4:11 PM on October 18, 2013
Why in heaven's name would a vendor want to make buying harder than stealing?
They wouldn't. That's where terrifyingly large punitive damages come in. It's a lot easier to buy something than pay many times what it costs later.
Course you takes yer chances. It's only harder if they come after you.
posted by spitbull at 4:22 PM on October 18, 2013
They wouldn't. That's where terrifyingly large punitive damages come in. It's a lot easier to buy something than pay many times what it costs later.
Course you takes yer chances. It's only harder if they come after you.
posted by spitbull at 4:22 PM on October 18, 2013
Canada's former hardline but ridiculously incompetent Justice Minister Vic Toews really and totally screwed up the bill. Since then Parliament has been prorogued a couple of times, killing successor bills.
You may be thinking of one or another of the incarnations of their WIPO- and DMCA-inspired copyright "reform" efforts. Public protest shut them down a couple of times, but eventually the public got weary of it and they succeeded in passing their crazy new laws. I can't find any recent news of how it's going, but last year's mass "file-sharing" lawsuit potentially involving thousands of Canadians allegedly infringing the copyright of some movie studio followed soon after, though maybe that is just coincidence, eh? I hope that's what you're thinking of, because it would be bad news if they have *more* copyright-related things they'd like to "fix". There's the CETA stuff, but at least that's only making existing laws slightly worse, not dreaming up whole new categories of things to make illegal such as watching DVDs, which if my understanding of the new law is correct I'm no longer legally allowed to do.
posted by sfenders at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2013
You may be thinking of one or another of the incarnations of their WIPO- and DMCA-inspired copyright "reform" efforts. Public protest shut them down a couple of times, but eventually the public got weary of it and they succeeded in passing their crazy new laws. I can't find any recent news of how it's going, but last year's mass "file-sharing" lawsuit potentially involving thousands of Canadians allegedly infringing the copyright of some movie studio followed soon after, though maybe that is just coincidence, eh? I hope that's what you're thinking of, because it would be bad news if they have *more* copyright-related things they'd like to "fix". There's the CETA stuff, but at least that's only making existing laws slightly worse, not dreaming up whole new categories of things to make illegal such as watching DVDs, which if my understanding of the new law is correct I'm no longer legally allowed to do.
posted by sfenders at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2013
KokuRyu: "I think one of the great things about isoHunt, besides the sheer quality of results was how trustable the results were. There were user comments, but, unlike other torrent sites, it was very clear where the torrent download link was - there was no danger of being sent to a new site that hosted malware or something."
Not only that, but it was wonderful how it could combine trackers into a single torrent automatically. Really handy for those obscure...Linux distros...
posted by Samizdata at 5:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Not only that, but it was wonderful how it could combine trackers into a single torrent automatically. Really handy for those obscure...Linux distros...
posted by Samizdata at 5:03 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
elpapacito: "Oh lord, so now RIAA can no longer claim they are losing $900 trillion a year to pirates? So no more fake losses to ask a tax break for? No more "piracy kills kittens" and "jebus watches you when you pirate!" ...lord, government must immediately setup an unemployment fund for the poor PR people that were so effective they practically gave away their jobs!"
And he watches me when I commit onanism.
Doesn't mean I've stopped.
posted by Samizdata at 5:07 PM on October 18, 2013
And he watches me when I commit onanism.
Doesn't mean I've stopped.
posted by Samizdata at 5:07 PM on October 18, 2013
ChurchHatesTucker: " You download nothing but metadata from isoHunt
And didn't the NSA tell us that metadata is harmless?"
And that the fact it's metadata gathering is of dubious legality is unimportant?
posted by Samizdata at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2013
And didn't the NSA tell us that metadata is harmless?"
And that the fact it's metadata gathering is of dubious legality is unimportant?
posted by Samizdata at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2013
I'm a little late to the party, but a $1 million fine was enough to sink isohunt. The rest is symbolism.
posted by phaedon at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2013
posted by phaedon at 5:09 PM on October 18, 2013
"There's the CETA stuff, but at least that's only making existing laws slightly worse, not dreaming up whole new categories of things to make illegal such as watching DVDs, which if my understanding of the new law is correct I'm no longer legally allowed to do."
If somebody actually went through the laws the Conservatives have passed since 2011, they'd probably find that every single one of us has already committed, or will soon commit a federal crime without knowing it. They're just writing laws to appeal to their base at this point, and don't actually care what the implications might be.
posted by Kevin Street at 5:13 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
If somebody actually went through the laws the Conservatives have passed since 2011, they'd probably find that every single one of us has already committed, or will soon commit a federal crime without knowing it. They're just writing laws to appeal to their base at this point, and don't actually care what the implications might be.
posted by Kevin Street at 5:13 PM on October 18, 2013 [2 favorites]
zardoz: "Isohunt was pretty darn good, but it was no Demonoid. *sniff*
There's happier places out there, trust me.
Where?! I know you can't tell me, but tell me."
In MeMail so it's not contributory.
And, ummm, me too, so I can, ummm, tell my, ummm, scofflaw buddy.
posted by Samizdata at 5:13 PM on October 18, 2013
There's happier places out there, trust me.
Where?! I know you can't tell me, but tell me."
In MeMail so it's not contributory.
And, ummm, me too, so I can, ummm, tell my, ummm, scofflaw buddy.
posted by Samizdata at 5:13 PM on October 18, 2013
Mod note: Folks, you're welcome to swap torrent sites over MeMail but keep it out of this thread please?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:30 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:30 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
What wouldn't you steal?
Second best. Can't find the bit with all the porn ads when they plug into the internet at the start of "a bicyclops built for two".
posted by bigZLiLk at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Second best. Can't find the bit with all the porn ads when they plug into the internet at the start of "a bicyclops built for two".
posted by bigZLiLk at 5:43 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
Dude, if you're not paying for something because it takes like three whole extra clicks to pay for it than it does to pirate it - or thirty clicks, for Christ's sake - then I have a list of impolite words to yell in your general direction.
I'm not keen on letting my credit card info float about for any more clicks than is strictly required. Especially if the website designer is stupid enough to make me jump through a dozen hoops to buy one album - this has happened to me in the past, I had to select each individual track, add it cart on its own special page, then go back for the next one. One album took twenty six clicks before I even started paying for it. A torrent of the same artist's discography is about four clicks, none of them involving dubious site security. If you can't manage to program in a "buy album" button, how on earth can I expect you to have a secure site?
I also refuse point blank to deal with iTunes until they stop price gouging Australian consumers.
In other news, I often wind up torrenting content I legally own rather than spending weeks re-ripping CDs and DVDs. Every hard drive crash would otherwise require a month or two of solid work to rebuild the collection. I still buy a lot of CDs and will rip them as I buy them, but it becomes absurd to rerip when I can get say, my Sisters of Mercy collection back in that four clicks I mentioned using a torrent.
posted by Jilder at 7:23 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm not keen on letting my credit card info float about for any more clicks than is strictly required. Especially if the website designer is stupid enough to make me jump through a dozen hoops to buy one album - this has happened to me in the past, I had to select each individual track, add it cart on its own special page, then go back for the next one. One album took twenty six clicks before I even started paying for it. A torrent of the same artist's discography is about four clicks, none of them involving dubious site security. If you can't manage to program in a "buy album" button, how on earth can I expect you to have a secure site?
I also refuse point blank to deal with iTunes until they stop price gouging Australian consumers.
In other news, I often wind up torrenting content I legally own rather than spending weeks re-ripping CDs and DVDs. Every hard drive crash would otherwise require a month or two of solid work to rebuild the collection. I still buy a lot of CDs and will rip them as I buy them, but it becomes absurd to rerip when I can get say, my Sisters of Mercy collection back in that four clicks I mentioned using a torrent.
posted by Jilder at 7:23 PM on October 18, 2013 [1 favorite]
I just would like to remind people that the US Constitution provides in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 AM on October 19, 2013
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.and for them to consider if the content in questions actually promotes the Progress of Science and useful Arts, or is the content in question simply commodity product to generate revenue?
posted by mikelieman at 1:36 AM on October 19, 2013
iTunes music is DRM-free, but watermarked with an association to your Apple account, so it's not a good idea to share them with others unless you have a means of stripping that out.
Is the actual audio watermarked (i.e., subtly degraded by noise containing your encrypted identifier), or just the header? Has anyone diffed two .m4a files of the same track bought by different accounts and determined what the difference is?
posted by acb at 3:10 AM on October 19, 2013
Is the actual audio watermarked (i.e., subtly degraded by noise containing your encrypted identifier), or just the header? Has anyone diffed two .m4a files of the same track bought by different accounts and determined what the difference is?
posted by acb at 3:10 AM on October 19, 2013
.
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:50 AM on October 19, 2013
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:50 AM on October 19, 2013
stupidsexyFlanders: "I am so lazy that I have actually torrented content instead of looking for it on my hard drive. Which seems to fill up unusually fast."
Are you like those old people who have 10,000 icons on their desktop or something? Then again I guess the only thing that I have a shit ton of mp3s, which is easier handled than movies and tv shows and whatever else one chooses to download (cars, especially, though I usually create folders by make, then model, then year)
posted by symbioid at 8:16 AM on October 19, 2013
Are you like those old people who have 10,000 icons on their desktop or something? Then again I guess the only thing that I have a shit ton of mp3s, which is easier handled than movies and tv shows and whatever else one chooses to download (cars, especially, though I usually create folders by make, then model, then year)
posted by symbioid at 8:16 AM on October 19, 2013
Are you like those old people who have 10,000 icons on their desktop or something?
Speaking for myself, while I don't have 10,000 icons on the desktop ( actually, I use XMonad and don't really have a 'desktop' in the conventional sense ) I do have directories labelled 'oldsystem-2001-11-01' from those times I decided to not do an in-place upgrade, but rather just get a new harddrive, do a fresh install and copy the old harddrive over.
So, I have personal and work files spread all over the place. So, it's possible I have old episodes of South Park in realmedia still hanging around.
Geez, Propaedia subdirectories. When did I give up on the whole Brittanica Catalogue thing?
posted by mikelieman at 8:31 AM on October 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
Speaking for myself, while I don't have 10,000 icons on the desktop ( actually, I use XMonad and don't really have a 'desktop' in the conventional sense ) I do have directories labelled 'oldsystem-2001-11-01' from those times I decided to not do an in-place upgrade, but rather just get a new harddrive, do a fresh install and copy the old harddrive over.
So, I have personal and work files spread all over the place. So, it's possible I have old episodes of South Park in realmedia still hanging around.
[mike@orion ~]$ locate -i 'southpark'
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/epi107/part1-56.rm
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/epi107/part2-56.rm
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/epi107/part3-56.rm
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/epi107/part4-56.rm
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/epi107/part5-56.rm
/storage/l-space/00-UNFILED/Filed/Propaedia/Art_and_Literature/Television/southpark/soxmas/Spirit Of Xmas.ram
Geez, Propaedia subdirectories. When did I give up on the whole Brittanica Catalogue thing?
posted by mikelieman at 8:31 AM on October 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
mikelieman: "I just would like to remind people that the US Constitution provides in Article I, Section 8, Clause 8"
I haven't been down there in a few months but I'm pretty sure Vancouver, BC is still in Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 12:44 PM on October 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
I haven't been down there in a few months but I'm pretty sure Vancouver, BC is still in Canada.
posted by Mitheral at 12:44 PM on October 19, 2013 [1 favorite]
.
posted by tribalspice at 2:10 PM on October 19, 2013
posted by tribalspice at 2:10 PM on October 19, 2013
At a work party, I ended up talking to the veep of HR at the MPAA. He was an interesting guy, deeeeep into the kool-aid on everything, but hey, he's in public and nobody ever got fired for shooting off the company line. None of the studios have any clear idea on how to make money off the internet, though they'd love to figure it out. Sounded like the best hope was some mid-level studio exec figuring this out, and that's never been a recipe for success.
posted by klangklangston at 12:10 AM on October 20, 2013
posted by klangklangston at 12:10 AM on October 20, 2013
So my, um, good friend would really appreciate one of those MeMails that people have been sending.
posted by The pets.com Mascot at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2013
posted by The pets.com Mascot at 9:07 AM on October 20, 2013
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Let this serve as a warning: blatantly and explicitly conspire to commit intellectual property theft for money, and you too could be shut down after ten years
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:43 PM on October 18, 2013 [19 favorites]