The Good Old Days
November 21, 2013 3:18 PM Subscribe
8 reasons I'm happy it isn't 1963 A refreshing take from a small business owner about how good the good old days really were.
He avoided mentioning something real important. Jobs.
posted by davebush at 3:40 PM on November 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
posted by davebush at 3:40 PM on November 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
For example, a Kennedy voter had to work 167.5 hours to afford a refrigerator and 100.5 hours to buy a washing machine. Yet today’s Obama voter only has to work 22.4 and 23.3 hours to buy the same things. Or just hold out for a while until the government eventually just gives it to them!
I'm afraid I'm missing the "refreshing" part of this shit.
posted by scody at 3:43 PM on November 21, 2013 [42 favorites]
I'm afraid I'm missing the "refreshing" part of this shit.
posted by scody at 3:43 PM on November 21, 2013 [42 favorites]
He's a small business owner, what do you expect
posted by fraxil at 3:46 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by fraxil at 3:46 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
#PetitBourgeoisProblems
posted by wobdev at 3:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by wobdev at 3:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Yeah, this is pretty braindead. It really doesn't acknowledge the reality of the pre-Reagan tax code, which had very high marginal tax rates but many, many opportunities for deductions. In real terms, total tax burden didn't change that much with the institution of the much lower Reagan-era marginal rates.
Or just hold out for a while until the government eventually just gives it to them!
And then in the next paragraph with praising the SBA for its loan guarantees. I guess free money from the government is just fine when Gene Marks is on the receiving end.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [18 favorites]
Or just hold out for a while until the government eventually just gives it to them!
And then in the next paragraph with praising the SBA for its loan guarantees. I guess free money from the government is just fine when Gene Marks is on the receiving end.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [18 favorites]
I'm happy it isn't 1963 because I was born in 1963, which means it would be illegal for me to drink Scotch.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:55 PM on November 21, 2013 [22 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:55 PM on November 21, 2013 [22 favorites]
I think some of the stuff like the "government gives it to them" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, since I'm pretty sure we've never had plans that gave people appliances, although I could be wrong.
I think it kind of boils down to: Every period in history was a good time to be wealthy. Few times and places are good to be poor. At best, the 1950s and 60s were a good time to be married, middle class, white, and Christian--but even for those people it's good to point out that it's not all downhill from there, that they don't need to fight progress because there's a lot of improvements that have arrived with all the scary changes.
posted by Sequence at 4:06 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I think it kind of boils down to: Every period in history was a good time to be wealthy. Few times and places are good to be poor. At best, the 1950s and 60s were a good time to be married, middle class, white, and Christian--but even for those people it's good to point out that it's not all downhill from there, that they don't need to fight progress because there's a lot of improvements that have arrived with all the scary changes.
posted by Sequence at 4:06 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm afraid I'm missing the "refreshing" part of this shit.
He's a Republican, but he seems more like a garden-variety dick rather than an inhuman monster?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:07 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
He's a Republican, but he seems more like a garden-variety dick rather than an inhuman monster?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:07 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
Right but you're never too young to enjoy some Chocolate Scotch Whiskey Cake.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:07 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:07 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
My Dad used to do shit like this when we'd get into it about politics. "Hey! Be thankful it's not blah-blah-blah! year!"
Because nothing smears lard over how we need to watch our backs now then popping off about how IT WAS BACK IN THE DAY.
On a much more interesting note..."Hey! Bye-bye Filibuster and SUCK IT JP Morgan!"
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 4:10 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Because nothing smears lard over how we need to watch our backs now then popping off about how IT WAS BACK IN THE DAY.
On a much more interesting note..."Hey! Bye-bye Filibuster and SUCK IT JP Morgan!"
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 4:10 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yeah, today is much better than 1963, but let's be honest, it's not a walk in the park for many people.
posted by arcticseal at 4:14 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by arcticseal at 4:14 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
a 48 year old man doesn't know shit about 1963
tomorrow's going to be an odd day for me - you see, i actually remember it ... getting sent home from school early ... my dad and my mom crying on the couch watching tv in shock ... the funeral 3 days later ...
50 years
it's kind of hard to believe
posted by pyramid termite at 4:15 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
tomorrow's going to be an odd day for me - you see, i actually remember it ... getting sent home from school early ... my dad and my mom crying on the couch watching tv in shock ... the funeral 3 days later ...
50 years
it's kind of hard to believe
posted by pyramid termite at 4:15 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Minorities are gaining steadily in the job market and hold positions of power and responsibility unthinkable in 1963. We even have a socialist as a President! (Kidding! I’m just kidding).
I wonder what the author means by this. Is he implying that only ethnic minorities hold socialist positions on public policy, or is he joking that socialists are a minority? Or is this one of those "yeah, I said it! Haw!" jokes that's supposed to be funny merely because he's saying something that might upset Democrats or is politically incorrect or whatever?
posted by clockzero at 4:18 PM on November 21, 2013
I wonder what the author means by this. Is he implying that only ethnic minorities hold socialist positions on public policy, or is he joking that socialists are a minority? Or is this one of those "yeah, I said it! Haw!" jokes that's supposed to be funny merely because he's saying something that might upset Democrats or is politically incorrect or whatever?
posted by clockzero at 4:18 PM on November 21, 2013
Things are much more affordable
yay for Chinese slave labor!
posted by any major dude at 4:19 PM on November 21, 2013 [6 favorites]
yay for Chinese slave labor!
posted by any major dude at 4:19 PM on November 21, 2013 [6 favorites]
In real terms, total tax burden didn't change that much with the institution of the much lower Reagan-era marginal rates.
Do you have a cite that unpacks this a little more? I'm aware of the thing of how Reagan made up for the lost revenue of his tax cuts (and freewheeling spending) by then closing loopholes and raising taxes, but this isn't just the same thing as high earners having shouldered basically the same burden through the Eisenhower era to the present. What exactly is the claim here?
posted by batfish at 4:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Do you have a cite that unpacks this a little more? I'm aware of the thing of how Reagan made up for the lost revenue of his tax cuts (and freewheeling spending) by then closing loopholes and raising taxes, but this isn't just the same thing as high earners having shouldered basically the same burden through the Eisenhower era to the present. What exactly is the claim here?
posted by batfish at 4:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Taxes being lower isn't a sign of things being better. In the grim dark future of the post-apocalyptic libertarian future there are NO taxes.
posted by blue_beetle at 4:31 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by blue_beetle at 4:31 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
I wonder what the author means by this. Is he implying that only ethnic minorities hold socialist positions on public policy, or is he joking that socialists are a minority?
For "socialist," read "Kenyan"... I think?
posted by scody at 4:36 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
For "socialist," read "Kenyan"... I think?
posted by scody at 4:36 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
pyramid termite: "50 years
it's kind of hard to believe"
Yeah.. Junior in High School. German class interrupted by PA. It was a long weekend. (and we match days of the week this year).
posted by jgaiser at 4:40 PM on November 21, 2013
it's kind of hard to believe"
Yeah.. Junior in High School. German class interrupted by PA. It was a long weekend. (and we match days of the week this year).
posted by jgaiser at 4:40 PM on November 21, 2013
Most of the things that make today better than fifty years ago are things that conservatives like this author are trying to do away with.
posted by octothorpe at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2013 [13 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2013 [13 favorites]
Well by complaining about Obamacare at least he can have 1963 medical treatments.
posted by GuyZero at 4:56 PM on November 21, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 4:56 PM on November 21, 2013 [6 favorites]
I agreed with him where he said "Obamacare! What a mess." It IS a mess! It's almost like half of the government spent years trying to sabotage it just to make sure it didn't work!
Seriously, screw this guy. He isn't as funny as he thinks he is. The anti-Obama sniping is completely pointless in this article.
posted by caution live frogs at 4:57 PM on November 21, 2013 [17 favorites]
Seriously, screw this guy. He isn't as funny as he thinks he is. The anti-Obama sniping is completely pointless in this article.
posted by caution live frogs at 4:57 PM on November 21, 2013 [17 favorites]
Hey, fellow Republicans, we should stop whining about today’s high taxes. Compared to 1963 we’re sitting pretty. Today’s top rate on income is a mere 39%. Back then it was 91%.
Yeah, you only used to be a thousand time better than those damn moochers when you inherited daddy's money. Now you're a billion times better!
Their number and pay scale among public company CEOs are rising. Minorities are gaining steadily in the job market and hold positions of power and responsibility unthinkable in 1963.
You've come a long way, baby. But don't get too uppity...I swear, give an inch and those coloreds and chicks just take a mile. And by mile, I mean less than 5% of executive positions.
Today, being a woman or a minority still has its challenges in the workplace. But nowhere near the challenges back in 1963.
Yep, we just made it harder for everyone to get and keep a job, in the name of "right to work." But, hey, the homos, lesbos, and trannies still don't deserve the right to work, so it's not a total loss.
Today we fear a terrorist lighting a bomb in his shoe on a plane or detonating an explosive device in Times Square. That’s scary. But c’mon, compare that to worldwide thermonuclear war. That’s what the population faced back in 1963.
No worries here! It's not as if the many destabilizing wars we supported have made access to nuclear material easier for terrorists or anything.
There were sexy stewardesses, smoking on planes and gourmet food served throughout. Last week I had to punch an old lady in the face so I wouldn’t lose the last window seat on my Southwest flight to Dallas. Times have changed.
Well, except for casual sexism, which is still totes awesome.
The smartphone will be looked back upon as the greatest business invention of the last 100 years, with the possible exception of the Keurig coffee machine which makes really delicious coffee. With my iPhone or Droid I can be doing business anywhere around the world and have instant access to my data.
Luckily the Internet wasn't a government project that was given a lot of support by that sneaky fucker Al Gore or anything. Or that smartphones were popularized by filthy peacenik hippies from--ugh--San Francisco.
For example, a Kennedy voter had to work 167.5 hours to afford a refrigerator and 100.5 hours to buy a washing machine. Yet today’s Obama voter only has to work 22.4 and 23.3 hours to buy the same things.
No thanks to those godless commie Chi-nees, amirite? It's not as if they became hypercapitalist slave drivers or anything.
Or just hold out for a while until the government eventually just gives it to them!
I still believe the Obamaphone is real!
Today the Small Business Administration guarantees billions and there are thousands of community banks and credit unions across the country that are competing for your interest.
I'm totally not a moocher holding out for a while until the government eventually gives that money to me. I'm entitled to that money!
Now you can just go to an ATM, which will automatically convert your dollars to Euros so you can feel as poor as the Europeans do.
Those dirty Europeans, with their healthcare costs a fraction of our own with better health outcomes across the board deserve the filthy poverty that they're in now. It's not as if that sweet, sweet deregulation us conservatives love did anything like, say, crater the world economy. No siree.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:21 PM on November 21, 2013 [20 favorites]
Yeah, you only used to be a thousand time better than those damn moochers when you inherited daddy's money. Now you're a billion times better!
Their number and pay scale among public company CEOs are rising. Minorities are gaining steadily in the job market and hold positions of power and responsibility unthinkable in 1963.
You've come a long way, baby. But don't get too uppity...I swear, give an inch and those coloreds and chicks just take a mile. And by mile, I mean less than 5% of executive positions.
Today, being a woman or a minority still has its challenges in the workplace. But nowhere near the challenges back in 1963.
Yep, we just made it harder for everyone to get and keep a job, in the name of "right to work." But, hey, the homos, lesbos, and trannies still don't deserve the right to work, so it's not a total loss.
Today we fear a terrorist lighting a bomb in his shoe on a plane or detonating an explosive device in Times Square. That’s scary. But c’mon, compare that to worldwide thermonuclear war. That’s what the population faced back in 1963.
No worries here! It's not as if the many destabilizing wars we supported have made access to nuclear material easier for terrorists or anything.
There were sexy stewardesses, smoking on planes and gourmet food served throughout. Last week I had to punch an old lady in the face so I wouldn’t lose the last window seat on my Southwest flight to Dallas. Times have changed.
Well, except for casual sexism, which is still totes awesome.
The smartphone will be looked back upon as the greatest business invention of the last 100 years, with the possible exception of the Keurig coffee machine which makes really delicious coffee. With my iPhone or Droid I can be doing business anywhere around the world and have instant access to my data.
Luckily the Internet wasn't a government project that was given a lot of support by that sneaky fucker Al Gore or anything. Or that smartphones were popularized by filthy peacenik hippies from--ugh--San Francisco.
For example, a Kennedy voter had to work 167.5 hours to afford a refrigerator and 100.5 hours to buy a washing machine. Yet today’s Obama voter only has to work 22.4 and 23.3 hours to buy the same things.
No thanks to those godless commie Chi-nees, amirite? It's not as if they became hypercapitalist slave drivers or anything.
Or just hold out for a while until the government eventually just gives it to them!
I still believe the Obamaphone is real!
Today the Small Business Administration guarantees billions and there are thousands of community banks and credit unions across the country that are competing for your interest.
I'm totally not a moocher holding out for a while until the government eventually gives that money to me. I'm entitled to that money!
Now you can just go to an ATM, which will automatically convert your dollars to Euros so you can feel as poor as the Europeans do.
Those dirty Europeans, with their healthcare costs a fraction of our own with better health outcomes across the board deserve the filthy poverty that they're in now. It's not as if that sweet, sweet deregulation us conservatives love did anything like, say, crater the world economy. No siree.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:21 PM on November 21, 2013 [20 favorites]
Do you have a cite that unpacks this a little more?
there's a CBO study out there that has effective rates from the 70s through the 2000s or so that will bear that out. effective rate wasn't officially tracked before that, IIRC, but the structure of the code from the 60s to the early 80s was pretty similar.
posted by jpe at 5:22 PM on November 21, 2013
there's a CBO study out there that has effective rates from the 70s through the 2000s or so that will bear that out. effective rate wasn't officially tracked before that, IIRC, but the structure of the code from the 60s to the early 80s was pretty similar.
posted by jpe at 5:22 PM on November 21, 2013
I'm happy it's not 1963 because that world mean we're caught in an unstable tone loop that would probably cause the universe to rip apart if we don't fix it RIGHT NOW. And that's just a pain.
Also, do you know how hard it is to find decent pho in 1963 without speaking Vietnamese?
posted by happyroach at 5:23 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Also, do you know how hard it is to find decent pho in 1963 without speaking Vietnamese?
posted by happyroach at 5:23 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
He avoided mentioning something real important. Jobs.
Does every thread have to devolve into discussion about Apple?
posted by pwnguin at 5:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
Does every thread have to devolve into discussion about Apple?
posted by pwnguin at 5:27 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
I'm glad it's not 1963 because I don't have to wait years to read all the Richard Stark Parker novels.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:30 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 5:30 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Yet today’s Obama voter only has to work 22.4 and 23.3 hours to buy the same things.
Or the Romney voter who only has to "work" for 3.7 seconds to buy them.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2013 [7 favorites]
Or the Romney voter who only has to "work" for 3.7 seconds to buy them.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:37 PM on November 21, 2013 [7 favorites]
On the other hand, if you had good wages then, you could do more with them. Because the CEOs weren't sucking up all the productivity gains and sitting on them. Yet.
The typical American family today makes less than it did in 1989.
Not sure how it compares to 1963 since the chart only goes back to 87. But as I've mentioned before, in real dollars my parents in the 70s/80s didn't make much more than we do, but they owned a house, several cars, and raised four kids in comfort. Meanwhile, we rent, have one kid, and one car and have to be super careful for those.
posted by emjaybee at 5:42 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
The typical American family today makes less than it did in 1989.
Not sure how it compares to 1963 since the chart only goes back to 87. But as I've mentioned before, in real dollars my parents in the 70s/80s didn't make much more than we do, but they owned a house, several cars, and raised four kids in comfort. Meanwhile, we rent, have one kid, and one car and have to be super careful for those.
posted by emjaybee at 5:42 PM on November 21, 2013 [10 favorites]
8 REASONS I'M HAPPY IT ISN'T 1963:
1. NO SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG
NO POINT IN FINISHING THIS LIST, 1963 HAS NOTHING OF INTEREST FOR ME
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:54 PM on November 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
1. NO SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG
NO POINT IN FINISHING THIS LIST, 1963 HAS NOTHING OF INTEREST FOR ME
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:54 PM on November 21, 2013 [5 favorites]
This is the same guy that told us what he would do if he was a poor black kid.
posted by unliteral at 6:02 PM on November 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
posted by unliteral at 6:02 PM on November 21, 2013 [11 favorites]
For "socialist," read "Kenyan"... I think?
You're probably right. It must be very strange, living in that imaginary world where present-day Kenya is a Communist nation and Islam = Socialism.
posted by clockzero at 6:11 PM on November 21, 2013
You're probably right. It must be very strange, living in that imaginary world where present-day Kenya is a Communist nation and Islam = Socialism.
posted by clockzero at 6:11 PM on November 21, 2013
Personally, I'm glad it's not 1963 because I can legally have lesbian anal sex with my biracial girlfriend while binge-watching Orange is the New Black in the apartment we rent together in a mixed-race neighborhood.
I'm bummed it's not 1963 because low taxes have gutted the local school system, rec department, libraries, emergency services, road maintenance and parks upkeep.
I'd rather have both, but short of moving to Europe, I think I'll take the anal sex.
posted by latkes at 6:18 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
I'm bummed it's not 1963 because low taxes have gutted the local school system, rec department, libraries, emergency services, road maintenance and parks upkeep.
I'd rather have both, but short of moving to Europe, I think I'll take the anal sex.
posted by latkes at 6:18 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Wow, Metafilter is being a real dick over this article. Leave it to our own brand of special snowflakes to take an article that would harsh the buzz on today's conservative narrative, and take offense because it's hurting our wallow in pessimism. How dare that right wing small business owner!
yay for Chinese slave labor!
Yeah, you say this with snark, but I have a feeling China's modern "slave" laborers are not pining for the prosperity of China's free laborers of 1963.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:26 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
yay for Chinese slave labor!
Yeah, you say this with snark, but I have a feeling China's modern "slave" laborers are not pining for the prosperity of China's free laborers of 1963.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:26 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Leave it to our own brand of special snowflakes to take an article that would harsh the buzz on today's conservative narrative, and take offense because it's hurting our wallow in pessimism.
Wait what? Wallow in pessimism? What does this mean?
posted by sweetkid at 6:28 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wait what? Wallow in pessimism? What does this mean?
posted by sweetkid at 6:28 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yeah, you say this with snark, but I have a feeling China's modern "slave" laborers are not pining for the prosperity of China's free laborers of 1963.
Please articulate how China's modern slave laborers are fundamentally better off than China's free laborers of 1963.
(It's a rhetorical question, but feel free to try to answer it anyways.)
(p.s. removed the ironic quotes from 'slave'.)
posted by jammy at 6:35 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Please articulate how China's modern slave laborers are fundamentally better off than China's free laborers of 1963.
(It's a rhetorical question, but feel free to try to answer it anyways.)
(p.s. removed the ironic quotes from 'slave'.)
posted by jammy at 6:35 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
In 1963 people actually thought they could still have a bright and exciting future, I don't think we're really allowed that luxury anymore. I think I'd like that back.
posted by doctor_negative at 6:41 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 6:41 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
He closes with a crack about Obamacare,
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:44 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Yeah, give me 2013 any day. Except for Obamacare.but over on his NYT blog today he writes this bullet point:
The Affordable Care Act is slowing the growth in health care costs.From which I can only conclude that he sees his interests as being served by rising health care costs.
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:44 PM on November 21, 2013 [8 favorites]
Whenever anyone waxes nostalgic about the past, my aunt says, "I'm glad my mother didn't have me one damn minute earlier than she did."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:46 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:46 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
there's a CBO study out there that has effective rates from the 70s through the 2000s or so that will bear that out. effective rate wasn't officially tracked before that, IIRC, but the structure of the code from the 60s to the early 80s was pretty similar.
Thanks, that's helpful. What I'm really wondering is how you square it with runaway inequality. In particular, I can see how you can have both (1) consistent effective tax rates across all incomes, and (2) most income gains captured at the right tail of the distribution, but then I would think it would have to be the case that those right tail earners would assume a larger share of the total tax burden. If everyone else stands in place, and I get an extra $100, normally taxed, then my share of the total tax burden necessarily goes up right?
posted by batfish at 6:50 PM on November 21, 2013
Thanks, that's helpful. What I'm really wondering is how you square it with runaway inequality. In particular, I can see how you can have both (1) consistent effective tax rates across all incomes, and (2) most income gains captured at the right tail of the distribution, but then I would think it would have to be the case that those right tail earners would assume a larger share of the total tax burden. If everyone else stands in place, and I get an extra $100, normally taxed, then my share of the total tax burden necessarily goes up right?
posted by batfish at 6:50 PM on November 21, 2013
Please articulate how China's modern slave laborers are fundamentally better off than China's free laborers of 1963.
(It's a rhetorical question, but feel free to try to answer it anyways.)
(p.s. removed the ironic quotes from 'slave'.)
You can put the quotation marks back on "slave" because inexpensive Chinese goods are not the result of slavery in any meaningful sense other than in service to hyperbole, sarcasm, and China bashing.
If you consider the difference in GDP of China from 1963 and 2013 (not to mention the political climate), it seems a stretch to say the average Chinese person longs for the good old days of 1963.
Wait what? Wallow in pessimism? What does this mean?
Exhibit A.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:01 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
(It's a rhetorical question, but feel free to try to answer it anyways.)
(p.s. removed the ironic quotes from 'slave'.)
You can put the quotation marks back on "slave" because inexpensive Chinese goods are not the result of slavery in any meaningful sense other than in service to hyperbole, sarcasm, and China bashing.
If you consider the difference in GDP of China from 1963 and 2013 (not to mention the political climate), it seems a stretch to say the average Chinese person longs for the good old days of 1963.
Wait what? Wallow in pessimism? What does this mean?
Exhibit A.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:01 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Is this guy doing a Ron Paul with his NYT blog? I go back another day or two and I find another positive bullet point about the ACA, and that one links to this article by, of all people, Ezra Klein. I'm now persuaded that he's got an intern putting this blog together for him, and that he's not even reading it.
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:04 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 7:04 PM on November 21, 2013 [2 favorites]
Wow, Metafilter is being a real dick over this article.
Yep. You sure are.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:05 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
Yep. You sure are.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:05 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
From what I can gather from my mother, 1963 sucked.
Her stories of traveling in the South with granddad from mill-town to mill-town while the US textile business was slowly crumbling, dancing at high school dances in a hall with a rope down the middle, drinking at water fountains that said "Whites only" are pretty damn stark.
posted by Sphinx at 7:20 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Her stories of traveling in the South with granddad from mill-town to mill-town while the US textile business was slowly crumbling, dancing at high school dances in a hall with a rope down the middle, drinking at water fountains that said "Whites only" are pretty damn stark.
posted by Sphinx at 7:20 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
If you consider the difference in GDP of China from 1963 and 2013 (not to mention the political climate), it seems a stretch to say the average Chinese person longs for the good old days of 1963.
1. GDP says nothing at all about quality of life.
2. Apartheid.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:24 PM on November 21, 2013
1. GDP says nothing at all about quality of life.
2. Apartheid.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:24 PM on November 21, 2013
What I'm really wondering is how you square it with runaway inequality.
The share paid by the top 1% has increased, but tax doesn't claw back all of a given income distribution, just some of it. its true that inequality has increased and that those at the top of the heap, income speaking, pay a greater share of the total than they did when marginal rates were higher.
posted by jpe at 7:55 PM on November 21, 2013
The share paid by the top 1% has increased, but tax doesn't claw back all of a given income distribution, just some of it. its true that inequality has increased and that those at the top of the heap, income speaking, pay a greater share of the total than they did when marginal rates were higher.
posted by jpe at 7:55 PM on November 21, 2013
In 1963 my dad was 22 and running sprinkler pipe in a shipyard about 4 blocks from where I am writing this in a rented townhouse. If he didn't like that job he could go over to another shipyard across the harbour. Up the harbour there was a lumber mill.
The shipyards and mills are gone now, replaced by condominiums and technology companies.
He got out of town in a Beaumont Sport Deluxe he bought with cash from his job working as a fitter and headed up to the north coast where they were building mills and other large projects. That's where he met my mom, who worked as a secretary right out of high school on one of the large construction sites.
Before that she had made good money in the summers working on a cannery.
My dad got promoted to foreman and was managing crews who were assembling giant pulp mills.
By 1967 they had bought a 3 bedroom house down here. By 1974 they had upgraded to a cheap 5 bedroom house out in the suburbs.
The 70's were okay but by the end of the decade my dad had to go up north by himself to work on remote projects. He started his own mechanical contracting company in 1980, and the recession of 1982 nearly did him in. We nearly lost the house, and I remember those years as being incredibly stressful.
But the 1960's in Canada, if you were a white male, were very good. There was plenty of work that did not require a technical degree. Gas and cars and food and houses was all cheap.
That all changed.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:25 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
The shipyards and mills are gone now, replaced by condominiums and technology companies.
He got out of town in a Beaumont Sport Deluxe he bought with cash from his job working as a fitter and headed up to the north coast where they were building mills and other large projects. That's where he met my mom, who worked as a secretary right out of high school on one of the large construction sites.
Before that she had made good money in the summers working on a cannery.
My dad got promoted to foreman and was managing crews who were assembling giant pulp mills.
By 1967 they had bought a 3 bedroom house down here. By 1974 they had upgraded to a cheap 5 bedroom house out in the suburbs.
The 70's were okay but by the end of the decade my dad had to go up north by himself to work on remote projects. He started his own mechanical contracting company in 1980, and the recession of 1982 nearly did him in. We nearly lost the house, and I remember those years as being incredibly stressful.
But the 1960's in Canada, if you were a white male, were very good. There was plenty of work that did not require a technical degree. Gas and cars and food and houses was all cheap.
That all changed.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:25 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
1. GDP says nothing at all about quality of life.
GDP is an imperfect indicator for quality of life. But it's usually considered a reasonable proxy. Still, as imperfect as it is, I think you'll have a difficult job demonstrating the quality of life overall in China is not significantly better now than it was in 1963.
2. Apartheid.
I think you are supporting my point here. The hukou system's restrictive policies are clearly falling out of favor and have been for a long time.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:28 PM on November 21, 2013
GDP is an imperfect indicator for quality of life. But it's usually considered a reasonable proxy. Still, as imperfect as it is, I think you'll have a difficult job demonstrating the quality of life overall in China is not significantly better now than it was in 1963.
2. Apartheid.
I think you are supporting my point here. The hukou system's restrictive policies are clearly falling out of favor and have been for a long time.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:28 PM on November 21, 2013
#TotallyFailedAtHisAndyRooneySchtick
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:49 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:49 PM on November 21, 2013 [3 favorites]
I honestly cannot tell whether this is supposed to be satire. So... I guess it... worked?
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Etrigan at 8:51 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the same guy that told us what he would do if he was a poor black kid.
Holy shit. I got as far as "If I were a poor black kid from West Philly, I would avail myself of all the free online educational resources I somehow know about despite the crushingly terrible and unbelievably underfunded school system I attend, via the internet and computer I personally have regular access to despite these things costing money that the family of a poor black kid from West Philly might well not have" and then I had to stop before I defenestrated the computer I, the thirty-something white dude, am lucky enough to have.
posted by rollbiz at 8:54 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
Holy shit. I got as far as "If I were a poor black kid from West Philly, I would avail myself of all the free online educational resources I somehow know about despite the crushingly terrible and unbelievably underfunded school system I attend, via the internet and computer I personally have regular access to despite these things costing money that the family of a poor black kid from West Philly might well not have" and then I had to stop before I defenestrated the computer I, the thirty-something white dude, am lucky enough to have.
posted by rollbiz at 8:54 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
GDP is an imperfect indicator for quality of life.
No, again, GDP is not an indicator of quality of life at all. Just because dumb people use it that way doesn't mean they're right to do so.
Barely-paid and completely disposable labourers working long hours to meet insane quotas can churn out a fuckton of exports, putting GDP through the roof, but their lives tend not to be so great.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:10 PM on November 21, 2013
No, again, GDP is not an indicator of quality of life at all. Just because dumb people use it that way doesn't mean they're right to do so.
Barely-paid and completely disposable labourers working long hours to meet insane quotas can churn out a fuckton of exports, putting GDP through the roof, but their lives tend not to be so great.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:10 PM on November 21, 2013
Yeah, but they line up in droves for the opportunity to do these jobs by choice, which tends to be kind of at odds with actual slavery.
WORDS MEAN THINGS
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:16 PM on November 21, 2013
WORDS MEAN THINGS
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:16 PM on November 21, 2013
(Seriously, though, the lines when Foxconn opens a new factory are just INSANE, all full of people who long for something that is better, in the end, than agrarian subsistence farming, even if it involves a time investment of a couple of years of hard work up front. Yes, Foxconn had x number of suicides in y year, but every time one of those statistics comes up it's conveniently disregarded that the number was — usually quite significantly — fewer than the population as a whole.)
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:20 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:20 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
Seriously, though, the lines when Foxconn opens a new factory are just INSANE
O yes, it's the Phantom Menace theory of value that anything lined up for can't be that bad!
posted by batfish at 9:32 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
O yes, it's the Phantom Menace theory of value that anything lined up for can't be that bad!
posted by batfish at 9:32 PM on November 21, 2013 [4 favorites]
I didn't use the word slavery. I used the word Apartheid, because that's what it is. Rural peasants who leave for the cities expecting opportunity around every corner are surprised to find every door closed to them. Then comes the realization that they're stranded halfway across the country with no way back. Their only option is to work in a live-in export factory performing the same tiny movement 300,000 times a day. It's not good, but it's something. It's room and board. It's not starving in a gutter. Hell yes they line up.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:43 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:43 PM on November 21, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is the same guy that told us what he would do if he was a poor black kid.
Oh, this jackass.
posted by brundlefly at 11:29 PM on November 21, 2013
Oh, this jackass.
posted by brundlefly at 11:29 PM on November 21, 2013
If this was 1963 we could have saved JFK and stopped the Vietnam War from spreading and bought shares in Comcast and then gone to space. Why wouldn't anyone wish it was 1963 now.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:04 AM on November 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:04 AM on November 22, 2013 [3 favorites]
Wasn't that the year they invented sex? You folks need to quit your whining.
posted by biffa at 3:20 AM on November 22, 2013
posted by biffa at 3:20 AM on November 22, 2013
Wasn't the world still in black and white at that point too?
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:33 AM on November 22, 2013
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 4:33 AM on November 22, 2013
think some of the stuff like the "government gives it to them" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, since I'm pretty sure we've never had plans that gave people appliances, although I could be wrong.
Yeah, it was just yesterday when my FoxNews-fan co-worker gave me his "Obamaphone" quip.
Again. These people don't let go of ideas they like just because they're bullshit.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:52 AM on November 22, 2013
Yeah, it was just yesterday when my FoxNews-fan co-worker gave me his "Obamaphone" quip.
Again. These people don't let go of ideas they like just because they're bullshit.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:52 AM on November 22, 2013
Why wouldn't anyone wish it was 1963 now.
The internet. Anything proposal that has us regressing to pre mid 80s information sharing technology is an obvious non-starter. Though I'd sure like to go back to the early 70s and buy up a barn full of those big block Mopars that were apparently languishing in dealer showrooms.
any major dude: "yay for Chinese slave labor!"
This completely discounts the improvements in engineering, material science, robotics, automation that have allowed prices to go down while allowing for improvements in quality, reliablity and consistency (sometimes traded for even more profit of course) by eliminating the bagarities of human labour. You don't have stuff like women sewing core memory by hand. People have always slaved away for low/no wages in crappy or dangerous working conditions (subsistence and factory farming are both) but I'd be surprised if per unit of production that hasn't been reduced in pretty well any metric globally.
posted by Mitheral at 5:05 PM on November 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
The internet. Anything proposal that has us regressing to pre mid 80s information sharing technology is an obvious non-starter. Though I'd sure like to go back to the early 70s and buy up a barn full of those big block Mopars that were apparently languishing in dealer showrooms.
any major dude: "yay for Chinese slave labor!"
This completely discounts the improvements in engineering, material science, robotics, automation that have allowed prices to go down while allowing for improvements in quality, reliablity and consistency (sometimes traded for even more profit of course) by eliminating the bagarities of human labour. You don't have stuff like women sewing core memory by hand. People have always slaved away for low/no wages in crappy or dangerous working conditions (subsistence and factory farming are both) but I'd be surprised if per unit of production that hasn't been reduced in pretty well any metric globally.
posted by Mitheral at 5:05 PM on November 22, 2013 [1 favorite]
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