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"Mirror twins are the ultimate twins. Fuck all you other twins."
December 23, 2013 11:14 AM   Subscribe

Meet the ATL Twins: two men who "share the same bed, wear matching outfits, only fuck the same girls, were both engaged to the same Penthouse Pet, and are both looking forward to marrying the same woman and fathering the same child." After Vice interviewed them in 2011 — "[T]hey literally finished each other’s sentences. Every sentence." — the twins achieved a certain notoriety, which led to Harmony Korine casting them in his 2013 film Spring Breakers. Last July they gave an interview with GQ, and Vice filmed a mini-documentary about their life [part 2; part 3] earlier this year. [ALL LINKS STRONGLY NSFW]
posted by Rory Marinich (383 comments total) 28 users marked this as a favorite

 
I read the first link and then I just knew that Terry Richardson was going to be involved in one or more of the subsequent ones.
posted by colie at 11:27 AM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


Yuck.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:28 AM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


First I've ever heard of them. Man, what pretentious assholes.
GQ: In an interview with New York, you said you wanted to achieve a Bieber level of fame. How close are you to that?

ATL Twins: As far as Bieber-level, man, I don't know, that's mania type shit. But lately I've been feeling some of that Bieber shit. Our past trip to New York, was crazy, goin' to a spot and everybody there wants to get a photo with you. Everybody wants a piece of you. I like it; It gives you a wide range of the kind of, you know, pussy you want to pop that night.
Ugh. Why would anyone pay attention to such creepy, disgusting losers?
posted by zarq at 11:28 AM on December 23, 2013 [19 favorites]


Depressingly sad. The sad part being the possible psychological issues going on with these twins' relationship with each other; the depressing part being their gangster shtick. What a failure of our society.
posted by dios at 11:28 AM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


fathering the same child

Wait, what?
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:29 AM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


fathering the same child

Wait, what?


It's called a swirl.
posted by kafziel at 11:30 AM on December 23, 2013 [19 favorites]


The local alternative weekly in Atlanta, Creative Loafing, did a long story on the twins earlier this year.
posted by kovacs at 11:30 AM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Twice the body and half the soul!
posted by planetesimal at 11:31 AM on December 23, 2013 [29 favorites]


I barely glanced at the first link, and now I feel like I need a Silkwood shower.
posted by sarcasticah at 11:32 AM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


They look like Will Arnett. They should all do a movie together and play triplets.
posted by cazoo at 11:33 AM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I can't decide which one I hate most.
posted by sonascope at 11:33 AM on December 23, 2013 [37 favorites]


I don't have a problem with their twin lifestyle if that works for them. I have a bit of a problem with the fact that they're scumbags.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:36 AM on December 23, 2013 [23 favorites]


You know what, I quite like this. I went to a shitty school years ago and a good 25 percent of the young males were exactly like this: poor, stupid, full of shit, ugly. Their shock value factor for us nice liberals is kind of exhilarating.
posted by colie at 11:37 AM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


The solution to this trainwreck is to stop looking.
posted by crayz at 11:37 AM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


I've often thought that there should be beauty contests for the insides of bodies.
posted by infinitewindow at 11:38 AM on December 23, 2013 [12 favorites]


I regularly make the argument that grown-ass people in consenting relationships should be able to do whatever the fuck they like. Even for these dickheads, that still applies.

Call it: "Your kink is not my kink, and you're kind of a fucking asshole, but I guess your kink is still okay."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:39 AM on December 23, 2013 [10 favorites]


Of course, it'll all end up with them covered with snails in a field and the timelapse camera will jam.
posted by sonascope at 11:39 AM on December 23, 2013 [19 favorites]


Curious about that girl they both loved?
You were engaged to the same girl. Did you both propose?
Yes. On Christmas. So we started sharing the same girls, obviously. Our first true love was this badass little cheerleader. She was a blonde chick and we loved her to death but her parents hated us, and she could never face society being with twins. It’s just not accepted.
What about their sex life?
Are you snuggling in there?
Nah, dog. We always got a bitch in the middle, every night. Let’s get this straight right now: ain’t no fag shit, ain’t no gay, incestuous shit about our gig. Understand that we grew up together… we’re the same person in two bodies. I know, telepathically, what he’s thinking before he says it. We can sense shit. We finish each other’s sentences—we’re that close. The longest we’ve EVER been apart was for two hours when he broke his arm, and once for six hours when I went to jail for a DUI.

When you’re double-teaming a girl is it always double penetration?
No, it’s one after another. And we have a rule: if he goes first one night, I go first the next night. Sometimes, with freaky ass bitches, we DP them. But we got big ass dicks, man. Girls don’t want this in their ass. We’re both blessed with 9-inch cocks. Bitches love us because we know how to fuck. That’s the reason you see us with all the badass bitches—we’re fucking them right. When it first pops off we might both get going on a chick, like she’ll start sucking my dick and he’ll start fucking her doggy. Then we flip it. Or we take turns. Or I might turn over and pass out and he’ll fuck her, and then when he busts that nut I come in. It’s good for the girl—she gets her shit off. She’s getting her orgasm, trust me. And we ain’t the best looking dude. We ain’t got no Ryan Sheckler face, but at the same time I’m charming. I got game. I know how to holler at girls.

This has been a public service announcement.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:41 AM on December 23, 2013 [43 favorites]


I flagged, but I just can't move on. Really, this is the best of the web? How so?
posted by Wordwoman at 11:43 AM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


What unpleasant people.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:45 AM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Having kinks doesn't excuse you from being an asshole, dirtyoldtown.
posted by dilaudid at 11:46 AM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: Sometimes, with freaky ass bitches, we DP them. But we got big ass dicks, man. Girls don’t want this in their ass. We’re both blessed with 9-inch cocks. Bitches love us because we know how to fuck. That’s the reason you see us with all the badass bitches—we’re fucking them right.
posted by Teakettle at 11:46 AM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


I quickly closed out of these tabs with an audible "Nope!"

I do not regret this decision.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 11:46 AM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I heard these guys are going to rap over "Royals" in the next Samsung commercial.
posted by escabeche at 11:46 AM on December 23, 2013 [10 favorites]


I really didn't need the opportunity to read that twice, Brandon.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:47 AM on December 23, 2013 [10 favorites]


Thank you Rory, for this early Christmas present.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:47 AM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Really, this is the best of the web? How so?

This is something I never would have stumbled on otherwise. My eyes are open.
posted by mochapickle at 11:47 AM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Teakettle: isn't that just a rap lyric that could have been on any record from the last 20 years? Kanye?
posted by colie at 11:50 AM on December 23, 2013


Honestly sometimes i forget there are people like this. This is so foreign to me.

At least they can get affordable healthcare for all their STDs now....
posted by sio42 at 11:50 AM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


The absolute worst parts of Spring Breakers all end up being more real than I knew on my initial viewing. It's like the (horrible) gift that keeps on giving.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 11:50 AM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Maybe Vice FPPs need to be held to a higher standard. Yeesh.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:52 AM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Really, this is the best of the web? How so?

I genuinely don't know how to respond to this question. Its very asking suggests that you and I have radically different lenses through which we interpret the world.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:52 AM on December 23, 2013 [16 favorites]


I watched Spring Breakers just last night (don't judge!)... and I thought James Franco's character was sorta over-the-top ridiculous.

Then I read this article, and I realized he was just cribbing from these guys. Holy fuck.
posted by sutt at 11:53 AM on December 23, 2013


"Merry Christmas, Y'all"
posted by sutt at 11:55 AM on December 23, 2013


any reason why vice blurred out all the drink brands?
posted by bhnyc at 11:55 AM on December 23, 2013


I've not seen Spring Breakers, does James Franco play twins, like a bizarre-er Parent Trap?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 11:56 AM on December 23, 2013


I have no words. just. ewwwww. please don't let there be a reality tv show in development. that's all I want for xmas now.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:57 AM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Twouchebags: Coming this Fall to TLC!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:57 AM on December 23, 2013 [25 favorites]


dilaudid : Having kinks doesn't excuse you from being an asshole, dirtyoldtown.

I think you might have taken that exactly the opposite of how I meant it. My point was that just because they're assholes (and they mos def are), it doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their kink.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:58 AM on December 23, 2013


I've not seen Spring Breakers, does James Franco play twins, like a bizarre-er Parent Trap?

No, he's in a gang with these twins...
posted by sutt at 12:01 PM on December 23, 2013


Honestly sometimes i forget there are people like this. This is so foreign to me.

I grew up knowing quite a few people like this.

Really the only remarkable thing about those interviews is that they're twins. Take that novelty away from them, and they're strikingly boring people that live in my shitty neighborhood. Wh
posted by furnace.heart at 12:01 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


actually they're kind of cute in a rough trade kinda way


still, obvious total misogynist douchebags.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:01 PM on December 23, 2013


Wait, they are paralegals?
posted by mochapickle at 12:02 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I didn't flag. I just moved on.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:02 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


what is this i don't even

ATL why would you do this to me
posted by Kitteh at 12:03 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


those quotes about no gay stuff, followed by how they're the same person in two bodies, followed by the dp descriptions - i find it supremely unlikely that they don't get each other off.
posted by nadawi at 12:03 PM on December 23, 2013 [13 favorites]


This post should have included a courtesy bottle of Purell.
posted by benito.strauss at 12:04 PM on December 23, 2013 [16 favorites]


"We're mirror twins. He's right handed and I'm left handed. We got the same tats on opposite arms. Mirror twins are the ultimate twins. Fuck all you other twins."

That's an epic #sickburn on all you other twins.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:08 PM on December 23, 2013 [25 favorites]


From this article, which I wish I'd known about while putting this post together:
They told me they've turned down "a bunch" of reality show producers who want to turn their lives into a cheap footnote of the "Jersey Shore" era. Which networks? "All of them."
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:08 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also, regarding homophobia:
As much as they crave the attention, they also think they've been misrepresented by the media. The Twins took turns explaining to me that they felt the first Vice interview made them sound homophobic, when they say that couldn't be further from the truth. They wanted to stress that they understand what it's like to have a sexuality and lifestyle that society regards with skepticism or disgust; they wanted be sure this story would express a kind of solidarity with anyone who might be misunderstood in a similar way. In the middle of making this point, one of the brothers looked down at his phone and said, "Hold on, this bitch is calling us." Bitches, as the Twins would put it, are often calling them.
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:09 PM on December 23, 2013 [21 favorites]


I love how it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between @vice and the @vice_is_hip parody account.
posted by mcmile at 12:10 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


@furnace. heart - Yep, exactly what I was thinking.. That and that the social shelf life on these crackers is about 5 years max, if they're lucky.
posted by bird internet at 12:11 PM on December 23, 2013


Ain't it funny how quoting homophobes' words verbatim can lead to the impression that they're homophobes?
posted by tonycpsu at 12:11 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


Rory Marinich: "They told me they've turned down "a bunch" of reality show producers who want to turn their lives into a cheap footnote of the "Jersey Shore" era. Which networks? "All of them.""

Assuming this is even true, (which seems totally unlikely, considering how desperately they crave attention), what's your point?
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on December 23, 2013


Point?
posted by Rory Marinich at 12:15 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Mental floss. This article is mental floss. It exposes the bottom line, and many people visit the bottom line, and then act as if they didn't. A cuter version of what I am talking about is Jimmy Fallon's "Baby It's Cold Outside." Seriously these frank and frantic twerkers are just being real, and then suddenly in a spotlight. It is sweetly stupid to me they frequent strip joints to locate their feminine ideals, like some people go to pet stores. No doubt this is terrifically bent, and compelling, yes I read the whole thing, but I don't feel dirtied by having done so, because I am sure of who I am and that I am looking at a machine with words and pictures. Ha ha ha ha ha this is so funny reading the responses to this piece. The more derision, and denial, the more little pieces of self the deniers are trying to repel. This is shock and awe! Ha ha ha ha!
posted by Oyéah at 12:15 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


"He's right handed and I'm left handed."

those quotes about no gay stuff, followed by how they're the same person in two bodies, followed by the dp descriptions - i find it supremely unlikely that they don't get each other off.

Yeah, clearly mutual masturbation is the chief advantage of being mirror twins.
posted by me & my monkey at 12:15 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I regularly make the argument that grown-ass people in consenting relationships should be able to do whatever the fuck they like.

I can think of situations where there would be big gray areas where this would be really problematic.

For example, having multiple spouses is usually limited to the most rich, and most of those are men (usually white). So, this could very well be exploitative to women and also run against social equality, but completely legal.

Or, what about cult marriage? If a cult encourages mass marriage, that's just add a legal way for them to enforce insularity and separate a group of people from society.
posted by FJT at 12:16 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


zarq - i thought Rory was responding to OHenryPacey who said please don't let there be a reality tv show in development.
posted by nadawi at 12:16 PM on December 23, 2013


They are the most amazing inbred trainwreck that you can't look away from, no matter how much your eyeballs burn.

those quotes about no gay stuff, followed by how they're the same person in two bodies, followed by the dp descriptions - i find it supremely unlikely that they don't get each other off.

It's like with televangelists: the louder people are about "no homo" and "hot bitches" and so on, the more I figure they've got something in the closet.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:17 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Bros have really let themselves go downhill lately.
posted by meehawl at 12:18 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


> Its very asking suggests that you and I have radically different lenses through which we interpret the world.

You think these guys are the "best" of anything? Strange world you live in.

I'd say that this is "worst of the web" - or at least "sleaziest of the web". I feel somewhat degraded even from opening the first link and reading a page of it then closing it. Even in that one page, they managed to gross me out with their opinions on women, gay rights and materialism - I'm sure if I found out more about them I'd discover that their political and artistic tastes were equally repellant.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 12:19 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


"He's right handed and I'm left handed."

those quotes about no gay stuff, followed by how they're the same person in two bodies, followed by the dp descriptions - i find it supremely unlikely that they don't get each other off.

Yeah, clearly mutual masturbation is the chief advantage of being mirror twins.
posted by me & my monkey a


eponynervouslaughter
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:19 PM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


FJT - the polygamy thread was done a few days ago. and it's not legal. so fictionally problematic? regardless, seems like a big ole derail.
posted by nadawi at 12:19 PM on December 23, 2013


nadawi: "zarq - i thought Rory was responding to OHenryPacey who said please don't let there be a reality tv show in development."

Ah. I see. Rory, I thought you were trying to defend the post or something. My mistake. Thanks, nadawi.
posted by zarq at 12:19 PM on December 23, 2013


Yo dawg, I've seen this movie before.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:19 PM on December 23, 2013


Somewhere, Arthur Kade is anxiously glancing into his rear-view mirror
posted by thelonius at 12:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think they sound fine. A cruder vernacular than what most mefites are used to, but they don't seem like bad sorts. A rough life and a serious hustle might produce some occasionally distasteful shit, but distasteful is not equal to bad.
posted by the young rope-rider at 12:23 PM on December 23, 2013 [18 favorites]


they managed to gross me out with their opinions on women, gay rights and materialism - I'm sure if I found out more about them I'd discover that their political and artistic tastes were equally repellant.

interesting posts can be made about grotesque people.
posted by nadawi at 12:23 PM on December 23, 2013 [15 favorites]


But anyway, I hope Tomax and Xamot get some therapy eventually.
posted by planetesimal at 12:26 PM on December 23, 2013 [25 favorites]


*checks out and wikis "outsider comedy"...*
posted by tmt at 12:26 PM on December 23, 2013


I don't know why you people are acting so aghast and offended and clutching your damn pearls. This is celebrity/pop culture. This is what we do now.
posted by jayder at 12:27 PM on December 23, 2013 [17 favorites]


And I mean, shit, calling people stupid, soulless, disgusting, based on not a whole hell of a lot...chill out, metafilter.
posted by the young rope-rider at 12:28 PM on December 23, 2013 [32 favorites]


I think they sound fine. A cruder vernacular than what most mefites are used to, but they don't seem like bad sorts. A rough life and a serious hustle might produce some occasionally distasteful shit, but distasteful is not equal to bad.

Yes, this.

They've got their hustle. More power to them.
posted by jayder at 12:29 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I must be doing something right. I've lived in Atlanta for eight years and have never heard of these douche-nozzles until just now.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 12:29 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Metafilter: The solution to this trainwreck is to stop looking.
posted by scrowdid at 12:30 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


With every sentence they utter, I find myself hearing the voice of Bobby Bottleservice.
posted by nickmark at 12:32 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


the young rope-rider: "A cruder vernacular than what most mefites are used to, but they don't seem like bad sorts. "

Treating women like sex objects and calling them "bitches" over and over again in every interview isn't bad?
posted by zarq at 12:32 PM on December 23, 2013 [29 favorites]


Science fiction has long dealt with two or more people/beings sharing a group consciousness. Why does the first (apparent) example have to be a pair of douchebros?
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:34 PM on December 23, 2013


I don't know why you people are acting so aghast and offended and clutching your damn pearls. This is celebrity/pop culture. This is what we do now.

Because acting aghast and offended and clutching my pearls is what I do now.

In fact, I sometimes worry that I'm not gasping loudly enough, or clutching hard enough.
posted by General Tonic at 12:34 PM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


Understand that we grew up together… we’re the same person in two bodies. I know, telepathically, what he’s thinking before he says it. We can sense shit. We finish each other’s sentences—we’re that close.

I just realized that these guys are fully qualified to be Jaeger pilots. Jaegermeisters, even.
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:35 PM on December 23, 2013 [16 favorites]


Halfway through the GQ interview, I noticed that I was hearing both of their voices in my head as Skinny Pete's.
posted by Beardman at 12:36 PM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


Treating women like sex objects and calling them "bitches" over and over again in every interview isn't bad?

It's worth noting how their whole act is totally and knowingly constructed -- costumes, language, props, etc -- in hopes of attracting a very particular kind of media attention. Getting reactions like yours is absolutely an intentional part of that. Personally I think it's a lot more interesting to look at what they are actually doing and why it is or isn't working, then it is to just be offended by their presentation, but maybe that's just me.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:38 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Well...they've achieved a Bieber level of something.
posted by yoink at 12:39 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Regarding the claims about reality shows, the second Vice article says:

And because it was my name stamped on the interview, coupled with the fact that to this day they still are without an agent or any other form of representation, it was my number that Hollywood called to offer them every manner of television and acting gig. For months I fielded requests from major networks and the producers of the most successful reality-TV shows in history. Each time I’d go back to the Twins and report what had been offered, but none of the pitches seemed to fit who they really were: two poor, white-trash skaters from Tennessee who dropped out of school and moved to the big city in search of a better life.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


OK, so I'm pretty open-minded and such, about DP'ing and whatnot, and even mostly about grammar.

But this, no.

This is pure FAIL:

the most unique twins

posted by chavenet at 12:43 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


the polygamy thread was done a few days ago. and it's not legal. so fictionally problematic? regardless, seems like a big ole derail.

Well, seeing how this post is being defined as a "trainwreck", I thought a derail was the most appropriate thing to do.

But thanks, I will go seek the polygamy thread you speak of, instead of reading more about the Awful Twins.
posted by FJT at 12:46 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Dip Flash: " It's worth noting how their whole act is totally and knowingly constructed -- costumes, language, props, etc -- in hopes of attracting a very particular kind of media attention.

Why? Is that supposed to make the sexism more palatable?

Getting reactions like yours is absolutely an intentional part of that. Personally I think it's a lot more interesting to look at what they are actually doing and why it is or isn't working, then it is to just be offended by their presentation, but maybe that's just me."

My interest in them ends with the sexist gangsta bullshit and creepy desperate vibe they're giving off. My annoyance with them stems from the fact that in their effort to be famous, nearly every time they speak on the record about women, they cast them as things that exist to be fucked and degraded, not respected.
posted by zarq at 12:46 PM on December 23, 2013 [18 favorites]


They explicitly state that every woman consents and is not coerced. So whether or not you think their sex life is gross doesn't matter.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I see that a large part of Ron Rosenbaum's piece on Stuart and Cyril Marcus—the real life twins on whom Cronenberg based his movie—is available on Google Books. Here's a longer piece on the movie. Finally, obligatory listicle: 6 of the eeriest twins in history.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Ha, they don't fool me. I've read enough SF to know that when you and your duplicate's experiences start to diverge, you become different people. Not only did one break his arm and the other not, one of them has had to deal with scissors and can openers and shit not being made for him.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:49 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I don't go for treating women like objects, but I also don't go for the fact that it's somehow a more tolerant response to go saying that they're gay and clearly having sex with each other. Part of this whole 'accepting that there are people different from us' thing is accepting that lots of people like lots of different things, and it isn't just about being straight or gay. They might be assholes, but there are perfectly nice people whose sexual niche happens to include having sex with members of the opposite sex in the presence of members of the same sex. It is capable of being its own distinct thing, not just a way to look at members of the same sex naked. It is not more respectful of people who enjoy looking at members of the same sex naked to imply that it is routine or expected to conceal our sexual preferences by doing stuff like this.

I hope they grow up and meet a nice girl, if that's what they want, and get a clue. Thankfully, misogyny is not fatal and a lot of people do get better.
posted by Sequence at 12:50 PM on December 23, 2013 [16 favorites]


If you listen closely I suspect you can hear the sad trombone sound accompanying the death of someone's sexual fantasy.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:52 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


I wish we could get past the personality of these twins and look into the fact that they do seem to have a double consciousness. Douglas Hofstadter writes a little bit about how culturally defined the "I" is, and how there's actually a lot of overlap between people's personalities. A couple that's been married for fifty years will each have a copy or simulacrum of the other inside their mind, able to accurately predict what the other's reaction will be. I wonder how much of this goes on with conjoined twins. Psychologists seem to really try hard to keep it from happening, understandably. But in the case of two people who share a body, it seems like it would be convenient to share personhood as well (would solve marital problems, for instance).
posted by rikschell at 12:53 PM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


I saw that they want to father the same child, and thought "well, socially that could be possible, but genetically -" and then my head exploded.
posted by topynate at 12:53 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I live in the part of The Ozarks where all of the meth comes from. People exactly like this are a significant portion of my everyday life.
posted by sourwookie at 12:56 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I must be doing something right. I've lived in Atlanta for eight years and have never heard of these douche-nozzles until just now.

I know, right? I now have to call my friends back home and ask them if they have ever heard of them outside the Loaf article.
posted by Kitteh at 1:00 PM on December 23, 2013


As the thread-poster, I don't feel like it's my place (or my need) to get defensive over what I think is fit to post to MetaFilter. I found the original Vice interview completely fascinating and compelling, my own judgments of the twins notwithstanding (and I don't feel the need to disclose my personal reactions to the twins whatsoever). I also don't have much to say by way of response to any of the comments here; I have a mixture of positive and negative responses to how people are reacting, but I don't want to jump in as either condoner or condemner here — neither response, to me, would feel completely appropriate.

It might be worth saying that I only came upon these twins thanks to Spring Breakers, which was my favorite movie of the year, and that Harmony Korine's approach to how he chooses what to film and how to film it is extremely thought-provoking IMHO. Reading this story and the subsequent comments also reminded me of something that I experienced a couple of years ago, while I was a junior in college:

One night, I'm feeling kind of stoned and extremely lonely and I'm doing the usual miserable web-browsing loop that some of us youth do sometimes when you're not in the mood to kick yourself in the ass and be productive and social and happy. And I come upon somebody who's complaining about an aspect of a Tumblr theme I designed, because I designed blog themes as a mode of self-promotion when I was even younger, and I take a moment to leave a comment saying "Hi! I'm Rory! And here's how to fix that thing you don't like!" Then, because I have nothing else to do and nowhere else to go, I start browsing this person's blog.

It turns out she's about my age, lives about two hours away, and seems to be in about the same malaise-y mindset that I'm in at the time. And she blogs about it really well. So I send her a private message, we get to talking, and after a couple of months we end up being really swell Internet friends. After a night of swapping drunken Facebook videos that include singing made-up songs, one of my IRL friends and I arrange a double date with her and one of her friends, because chemistry! And Facebook! The Internet! A few weeks later we set off on this epic road trip to hang out and see if we get along in person, and the really, really, REALLY, really, really-really-really polite way of saying it is that none of us got along very well at all.

There was something of a culture clash. I mean, superficially we all seemed very similar to one another, enough so that a couple of months of Skyping and writing one another hadn't set off any alarms, but in person it became really obvious that there was a LOT about the four of us that clashed somewhat horrendously, to the point where our two groups each felt directly offended by the other. My friend and I bailed on Sunday morning, fled back to my apartment in Philly, and made valiant efforts to scrub the entire weekend from our brains completely — an attempt that failed completely.

So the immediate lesson that I took away from that is that talking to somebody is not at all the same as actually knowing them, even when you've been talking to them about personal and vulnerable things for a decently long amount of time. But the takeaway that I feel is maybe more important is the inverse to that first part: meeting somebody in the flesh, seeing them in their world, learning what they do to occupy their time, tells you next to nothing about what's going on inside of them. People who would seem radically different from you to the point of being outright repulsive can have the exact same monologue going on inside themselves as you've got going on in you; they can feel so strongly and compellingly about the things you're suffering from that they feel like kin to you. And I would have a hard time saying which half of a person is the realer half; am I more the person who I am when I'm with my friends or family or girlfriend, just kind of sharing life with them and coasting from norm to norm, or am I more myself as the guy that's sharing sensitive, vulnerable stories about myself online that I'd never feel comfortable confessing in person? As I've grown a bit older, I've blended the two halves of myself more, and feel a lot healthier as a result, but is it possible to determine whether the internal or the external life is more valuable to defining who we are? It's an ambiguity that leaves me somewhat uncomfortable.

That ambiguity is, I think, one of Harmony Korine's more obvious focuses as a director. He seems not to care about judging his characters for the world they're living in; any judgment cast upon them is relative to how they relate to the people around them. Selena Gomez's character Faith is mistrustful of her Christian college group, disregards her friends' warnings about the group she's going on spring break with, yet when she gets uneasy and tries to leave Florida and Alien and the ATL twins behind, her friends (who are soon to become mass murderers) whine and beg and tease her in an attempt to get her to stay behind. This isn't cast as some major moral moment; Faith is just a girl who wants a bit more than her one group of friends and a bit less than the others, and to each group she is either a bit too sinful or a bit too lame. That's all.

Which isn't to say Korine is a remotely nihilistic artist; Spring Breakers is drenched in commentary about race, sex, and class (did Faith only get uncomfortable once the trashy partiers her friends were partying with became majority-black?), and there are absolutely value judgments to be made about the kinds of cultures that exist and their influence on the people within them. But I think there has to be an awareness that the culture and the individuals are, in fact, separate from one another, and that even when you're entirely shaped by a certain culture, you are defined by more than its limits and perceptions. The internal self is important — it's what defines what it means to be conscious and self-aware, in large part, even if it's the piece of a person that you most rarely see.

My reading of the Vice interview was colored by the film that I first encountered these twins in, and while I'm comfortable saying I generally disapprove of Vice and its related culture, I still find the ATL twins both fascinating and not entirely objectionable. I don't want to be like them whatsoever, I don't think I'd have a good time partying with them, and I am in fact comfortable with being several states away from the entire scene that they're a part of. I can find many things to criticize about their approach to life that range from the moralizing to the culturally-sensitive to the purely aesthetic. But I'm not sure if any of my criticisms are meaningful, let alone necessary, and like I said I don't feel the need to offer anything along those lines whatsoever. (That's also why I tried to stay deliberately ambiguous about what, exactly, my friend and I found so offensive about those two girls we tried to double date; I don't think the nature of our offense is relevant here at all.)

I'll say that I am somewhat disquieted by the nature of many of these responses. A lot of them feel more like performance to me—like people are feeling obligated to parrot certain criticisms and feelings about the twins and sort of showboat the nature of their reactions to them. I think other commenters are saying what I feel more explicitly, so I'll not pile on; but they were disquieting enough that I wanted to offer up some kind of response rather than just sit back and act like I was trolling this thread or deliberately trying to whip up a bunch of outragefilter. I very much was not.
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [101 favorites]


And I mean, shit, calling people stupid, soulless, disgusting, based on not a whole hell of a lot...chill out, metafilter.

Well, they're not our sort of people at all, are they? Not a post-graduate degree between the two of them, they don't seem to know the first thing about client-side HTML scripting in jQuery, and to be honest, I doubt that either one of them has ever even been in therapy.

MetaFilter locks its car doors when it drives through these guys' neighborhood.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 1:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [55 favorites]


People exactly like this are a significant portion of my everyday life

Wait...you're saying they're quintuplets?
posted by yoink at 1:01 PM on December 23, 2013


Halloween Jack: "Science fiction has long dealt with two or more people/beings sharing a group consciousness. Why does the first (apparent) example have to be a pair of douchebros?"

Hey, hockey fans in Vancouver have been enjoying the Sedins for over a decade.
posted by mannequito at 1:02 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


"I live in the part of The Ozarks where all of the meth comes from. People exactly like this are a significant portion of my everyday life."

And they're all performing a carefully calibrated media construction intended to attract attention by the pearl-clutching liberals who respond to their persona with disgust, all as part of a commentary of American culture and the unresolved tensions in the progressive psyche.

So what are you doing with your life in the methilicious Ozarks? Probably some boring white collar job while all your blinged neighbors are engaged in sly social commentary.

I bet you feel like your life has been a waste now, huh?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:04 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


Twins is a pretty mainstream fetish for men, is the same true for women?
posted by Mitheral at 1:07 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I mean, come on, who, after spending a few hours with these guys, couldn't finish their sentences for them?
posted by perhapses at 1:07 PM on December 23, 2013 [47 favorites]


So what are you doing with your life in the methilicious Ozarks? Probably some boring white collar job while all your blinged neighbors are engaged in sly social commentary.

What the fuck?
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:08 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


MetaFilter locks its car doors when it drives through these guys' neighborhood.

Heavens, no, I ask my driver to lock the doors!
posted by octobersurprise at 1:09 PM on December 23, 2013 [18 favorites]


fwiw - i wasn't positing that they have some sort of shared sexuality absent the women they discuss out of some sort of kneejerk lol gay thing. i've participated in quite a bit of group sex with all manner of genders and sexual orientations. in some of these situations i've found some guys (and women) who would profess a no homo creed, but wouldn't actually abide by it in the heat of the moment. what i was trying to say with my comment was that when talking about how they never touch each other, he then talks about how they're the same person - i don't think they'd discuss it publicly but i also think if that arm break was on the dominate arm, the other brother probably helped him out.
posted by nadawi at 1:13 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, they're not our sort of people at all, are they? Not a post-graduate degree between the two of them, they don't seem to know the first thing about client-side HTML scripting in jQuery, and to be honest, I doubt that either one of them has ever even been in therapy. MetaFilter locks its car doors when it drives through these guys' neighborhood.


i'm a high school drop out who grew up in a trailer park in the ozarks where school buses for a time refused to come because some kids tore up the bus stop and attacked the bus with the boards. i've been to therapy a grand total of 3 or 4 times. "metafilter" is not one demographic or life experience.
posted by nadawi at 1:17 PM on December 23, 2013 [36 favorites]


Let’s get this straight right now: ain’t no fag shit, ain’t no gay, incestuous shit about our gig. Understand that we grew up together… we’re the same person in two bodies.

Yeah, I'm definitely reading an unspoken "...so technically it's just masturbation" into that.

Not that there's anything wrong with it.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:17 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Rory Marinich: " I'll say that I am somewhat disquieted by the nature of many of these responses. A lot of them feel more like performance to me—like people are feeling obligated to parrot certain criticisms and feelings about the twins and sort of showboat the nature of their reactions to them. I think other commenters are saying what I feel more explicitly, so I'll not pile on; but they were disquieting enough that I wanted to offer up some kind of response rather than just sit back and act like I was trolling this thread or deliberately trying to whip up a bunch of outragefilter. I very much was not."

I feel like you're willing to give the twins the benefit of the doubt with regard to whether or not they're being honest about who they are and what they feel, but not the people in this thread.

Their public personas bother me, and I've explained quite clearly why. And I think I'm entitled to say so, regardless or whether you or anyone else happens to think I'm being honest or not, or think I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.
posted by zarq at 1:18 PM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


What the fuck?

Is possible he makes with the ha ha.
posted by yoink at 1:20 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Why does anyone care what these two have to say?! Because of Harmony Korine? For shame, Harmony.
posted by JHarris at 1:21 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


"Really, this is the best of the web? How so?"
"I feel somewhat degraded even from opening the first link and reading a page of it then closing it."
Hmm, I'm not defending these twins (I too find them to be sexist, homophobic assholes), but notably I have these same reactions to Metafilter posts which, in my mind, are merely teary masturbation. I could get my train wreck articles from reading Reader's Digest or seeking out those "She faced a cougar, but lost her child" articles in hunter's mags but I hate reading those. I definitely don't enjoy reading about the "woman who wrote a letter to his future wife" or being surprised by those not-that-descriptive Metafilter posts which turn out to be about tearjerker bullshit, but this isn't so much the best of the web as it is some of the most interesting, eh?
posted by DisreputableDog at 1:24 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Mitheral - unsure about "women" but i can't really ignore that i (a woman) have dated maybe more than my fair share of half of twins (never dated both, never fooled around with the other twin) and that sometimes it was fun to have someone who looked identical to my girlfriend who wasn't my girlfriend walking through stores holding each others hands, etc. never dated a guy twin, though - although i certainly tried once in high school. so, i guess, sort of?
posted by nadawi at 1:24 PM on December 23, 2013


I wonder. About these twins.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:28 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


They're like every Nick Kroll character rolled into one.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:29 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


I'm aggravated by everything about everything about this, and the responses, and, just, everything, and that probably means I most definitely should not comment, but the alternative is cleaning and like hell am I getting back to that.

I think a lot of the problems is that the article, the value of the article, the framing of this post, and a lot of the comments, are referring to these twins as some spectacle, where their world and their opinions are just something to gawk at, and not in fact real people existing in a real world.

I understand wanting to learn about people with other lifestyles, or upbringings, or whatever, but that's poor defense for the misogynist, homophobic bullshit they're saying. Reading about them in this abstracted way is causing people to read about their opinions in the same disconnected fashion, and that's not how the world works, because women and gays aren't some isolated occurrence you can set aside in order appreciate the novelty of these dick heads.
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:31 PM on December 23, 2013 [24 favorites]


And for those of us who can't make the disconnect, it's bullshit to say it's some sort of pearl-clutching classism.
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:32 PM on December 23, 2013 [12 favorites]


Every so often MetaFilter gets on this noble savage kick, "look at these strange people who aren't like us, aren't they interesting, and don't you dare criticize them given that you went to college and they didn't", and it's really gross. These twins public personas suck and I'm gonna say they suck, and the implication that we're not allowed to judge them is insanely paternalistic and demeaning, to them more than anyone. I am damn certain there's other people "from their neighborhood" who aren't stupid awful misogynist assholes.
posted by crayz at 1:33 PM on December 23, 2013 [27 favorites]


I saw that they want to father the same child, and thought "well, socially that could be possible, but genetically -" and then my head exploded.

Actually, since they're identical twins - any child of one is genetically the child of the other as well since they have the same DNA. This is true of any identical twins: their respective kids are cousins, but genetically half-siblings.
posted by sonika at 1:34 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Why does the first (apparent) example have to be a pair of douchebros?

I think a lot of guys can look back on some stuff they did when they were younger and think "jeez that was kinda douchey." Now imagine being in that douchey moment with another guy exactly like you encouraging you through it all and validating you. It's like a douchey feedback loop.
posted by Hoopo at 1:36 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


The ATL alt-weekly article on them was very well-written and interesting:
It is easy to assume that the Twins are liars. They tell stories that sound obviously exaggerated. The events of their lives are hard to fathom. "Liar" isn't the right word, though. The Twins are hustlers. Hustlers like to say what other people want to hear, but, more importantly, what they want to be true, what could be true if you just give them enough time.
As for this thread....I find it odd how personally some people take them. I don't think the articles about them present them as something admirable, or likeable, really, but as something interesting. I do think they're interesting. They remind me of Becky Sharp in Vanity Fair or Eve in All About Eve --- hustlers, all. Not what we would call nice people. But the way they play the game reveals something about the nature of the rules that bind their worlds...and their avidity reveals something of human nature, too.
posted by Diablevert at 1:36 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


Wouldn't they (the kids) be genetically siblings, as the twins have identical DNA? For example, if they did a paternity test, the results would be identical, right? Honest question. How would that work?
posted by mochapickle at 1:36 PM on December 23, 2013


It occurs to me that I may be an Addison DeWitt on a blue peopled by Amelia Sedleys...
posted by Diablevert at 1:37 PM on December 23, 2013


Well, if they weren't twins, I guess they would just be a couple of horrific morons. Because they're twins, one has to include freakish in that definition. Which doesn't mean that I condemn them. At all.
posted by nicolin at 1:38 PM on December 23, 2013


yes - if they had kids with the same women, genetically the kids would be siblings. it's when twins each have kids with different women where they are half siblings.
posted by nadawi at 1:38 PM on December 23, 2013


I heard these guys are going to rap over "Royals" in the next Samsung commercial.

And Metafilter will somehow still find a way to look the other way!
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:39 PM on December 23, 2013


yes - if they had kids with the same women, genetically the kids would be siblings. it's when twins each have kids with different women where they are half siblings.

Unless the women are themselves identical twin sisters. And there'd be an intermediate level of relatedness if they were non-identical siblings.
posted by topynate at 1:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Wouldn't they (the kids) be genetically siblings, as the twins have identical DNA? For example, if they did a paternity test, the results would be identical, right? Honest question. How would that work?

Yes, a paternity test would label both or either as the father. In terms of DNA alone, they are the same person.
posted by sonika at 1:41 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Look at these identical assholes.
posted by pracowity at 1:41 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


While there are many sociopolitical facets to this issue, that which I wish to highlight is mathematical. If I may quote, "we DP them. But we got big ass dicks, man. Girls don’t want this in their ass. We’re both blessed with 9-inch cocks." That is a total of eighteen inches of penis. Never before have I been forced to contemplate penis in the aggregate
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2013 [15 favorites]


Mind blown. Thanks!
posted by mochapickle at 1:42 PM on December 23, 2013


I don't agree with the premise that our only choices are to either condone the troublesome things they said or condemn these guys completely. Cultural relativism doesn't mean we have to forfeit our own morals to accomodate people from cultures or subcultures with crapulent aspects to them. But it does mean we can be a bit more reflective than, "Welp, they said X so now they're disqualified from being human beings and they bear no further consideration. Let us speak of them no more!" We don't really have to be so binary.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:43 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


sonika: "Actually, since they're identical twins - any child of one is genetically the child of the other as well since they have the same DNA. This is true of any identical twins: their respective kids are cousins, but genetically half-siblings."

I think this is actually the head splody part of the thought chain: normally when these sorts of statements are made they are speaking metaphysically or with gross ignorance of the conception process but in this case it would actually be impossible to determine who the father is given, uh, equal opportunity.
posted by Mitheral at 1:44 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


(My previous comment was addressing the more common scenario of twins having children with different partners unrelated to each other. Yes, if two sets of identical twins had children, their children would all be genetically siblings. In my own family, brothers married sisters and as such my mom has a set of "double cousins" who are genetic cousins on both sides... Genetics gets weird when sibling pairs are involved, even when not with each other.)
posted by sonika at 1:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


These guys are bizarre, for sure. I don't think they're some sort of media construct, nor do I think they're ignorant hillbilly meth-heads, they seem to be intelligent survivors from very a broken culture that they perpetuate and yet sometimes reflect on, if not critically at least knowingly. For example from the GQ article:

That's another thing: People try to say we exploit women. We just don't; I'll tell you straight up: we like to fuck bitches and hang out with fuckin' hot-ass girls. When I say bitches I don't mean bitch like that; the way we grew up, it's how we talk. We love girls—every nationality, fuckin' all that shit. I've never forced a girl to do anything, it's always natural and they're super into it. That's just how we're living.

Someone upthread linked how they felt bad that people thought they were homophobic. The first interview they did is probably the best for trying to understand where they are coming from, as they describe it:

We were born in Chattanooga, Tennessee. It’s a slum fuck, white trash, black ghetto neighborhood. We grew up on food stamps—super trife. When we were younger we were into gnarly death metal. We started skating when we were 12. Want to know how we lost our virginity?

If you're a student even a bit of American culture there is a lot to understand and unpack there. They describe abject poverty, giving their dying father CPR at age 14, drug abuse at an early age. It would not be surprising if they were victims of sexual abuse, and in fact their virginity-loss story involves them having sex together at age 13 with a 21-year-old woman. And yet, now they seem to have created if not an entirely positive life, but an interesting one.
posted by cell divide at 1:46 PM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


"Their public personas bother me, and I've explained quite clearly why. And I think I'm entitled to say so, regardless or whether you or anyone else happens to think I'm being honest or not, or think I'm making a mountain out of a molehill."

Sure, but remember that you don't always have to share your outrage with the world.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:48 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


i wish some of y'all would just stop trying to police other peoples participation in the thread. the hyperbole in some comments is ratcheted up to 11 with mis-characterizing what the "thread" is saying.
posted by nadawi at 1:51 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


Heavens, no, I ask my driver to lock the doors!

I don't have a driver, but I will peddle my Fixie faster through the neighborhood.

Actually I like this-at last there's people that MeFi Hayes more than hipsters!
posted by happyroach at 1:52 PM on December 23, 2013



MetaFilter locks its car doors when it drives through these guys' neighborhood.


That would definitely depend on what part of Midtown Atlanta, but my guess? Near their high-rise, you probably wouldn't have to bother because of underground parking.
posted by Kitteh at 1:59 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Next time I get done for open container I'm giving my name as "Mefi Hayes".
posted by chavenet at 2:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


Never before have I been forced to contemplate penis in the aggregate

Don't worry, someone else has done this for you.
posted by me & my monkey at 2:09 PM on December 23, 2013


Got it. Inbred and meth heads and probably gay. Apologies to I.F., but sometimes speculation does say more about its author. It's weirdly offputting how eager everyone is to register exactly how offended they are, so desperate to take this opportunity to build up social capital and to reflect in this filthy mirror. Stay classy, MeFi middlebrow, stay classy.
posted by Nomyte at 2:14 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


there is no "everyone." reread the thread - plenty of sides being represented.
posted by nadawi at 2:18 PM on December 23, 2013 [11 favorites]


I think that's kind of an uncharitable reading, Nomyte. I read the 'gay' stuff as talking more about (self) deception than being hurf durf homos. These guys are kinda douchey, let's be honest; the way they refer to women is unacceptable. And I don't think anyone actually said they were inbred or meth heads. Be fair.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:20 PM on December 23, 2013


Brandon Blatcher: " Sure, but remember that you don't always have to share your outrage with the world."

I'm not outraged.
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Look at these identical assholes.

Actually their assholes are perfect mirrors of one another.

. . . I'll let myself out.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [21 favorites]


That (post and comments) was a fun read! Thanks everyone!
posted by Dr. Zachary Smith at 2:25 PM on December 23, 2013


so desperate to take this opportunity to build up social capital and to reflect in this filthy mirror

Filthy social capital mirror twins are the ultimate twins. Fuck all you other twins.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:26 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


I definitely don't enjoy reading about the "woman who wrote a letter to his future wife" or being surprised by those not-that-descriptive Metafilter posts which turn out to be about tearjerker bullshit...

I'm so glad someone is saying this, because I thought I was the only one who felt this way.

These guys ... I dunno. They seem decent enough.
posted by jayder at 2:29 PM on December 23, 2013


I'll say that I am somewhat disquieted by the nature of many of these responses. A lot of them feel more like performance to me—like people are feeling obligated to parrot certain criticisms and feelings

Welcome to Metafilter.
posted by Ndwright at 2:30 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


Every so often MetaFilter gets on this noble savage kick, "look at these strange people who aren't like us, aren't they interesting, and don't you dare criticize them given that you went to college and they didn't", and it's really gross.

I hate reading posts about Appalachia for that very reason.
posted by winna at 2:33 PM on December 23, 2013


like people are feeling obligated to parrot certain criticisms and feelings

Much like the twins are doing. And much like the reporter is doing. The whole thing's a setup, and what we're seeing here is how people are reacting to this story and players who aren't being 100% honest. That's one of the reasons this is so interesting.
posted by mochapickle at 2:36 PM on December 23, 2013


I read the 'gay' stuff as talking more about (self) deception than being hurf durf homos. These guys are kinda douchey, let's be honest; the way they refer to women is unacceptable. And I don't think anyone actually said they were inbred or meth heads. Be fair.

I don't believe anyone here is clairvoyant enough to know about their "self-deception." Some people on MeFi just like acting like armchair psychologists. Also look at the recent thread about the Tsarnaev brothers, where some people displayed preternatural depths of insight into "the killer's mind," to use a TV cliche.

Also, check out this comment above: "They are the most amazing inbred trainwreck that you can't look away from, no matter how much your eyeballs burn."

The speculation about whether or not they have sex with each other is part and parcel of the same smug certainty: we clearly know more about them than they do about themselves. Except that this speculation also has that special frisson of the salacious secret: no matter how much these guys deny it, we know, we know what they're up to in that bedroom.

Some people on MeFi have this weird double-edged fascination with poverty culture. Sometimes we like Queeblo a lot, and other times it's like we're called to account before the rich kids and passionately, fervently go nuh-uh, we're not at all like those poors, no sir, please look at my civilized person papers!
posted by Nomyte at 2:37 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


so desperate to take this opportunity to build up social capital

You'll forgive me if I'm a little slow here, but could you explain how humor at the expense of this pair of yahoos is a desperate grab for social capital, yet criticism of same, somehow, isn't. They seem nearly identical to me. Twins, if you would.

Anyway, with their 18 inch dick (collectively speaking) and their twin thirst for bitches and fame, they really need a career in porn. It seems an outrage to deny the world an 18 inch dick on two identical bodies.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


You look outraged.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:42 PM on December 23, 2013


Okay, I just RTFA, and I love these guys.

We got back to the crib and were drinking OE and getting high when all of a sudden some dudes were like, “She wants to fuck both of you. Go into her bedroom.” We didn’t care or know nothing about pussy then, but we went in there and she was in lingerie bumping Poison or Motley Crue. She said, “Take your clothes off,” to both of us. We had boners and shit.

This scenario amuses me a great deal ... And the line "we had boners and shit" is just perfect.

These guys are like trailer-trash Winkelvoss twins ... They are like Eminem meets the Winkelvii meets Derek Parfit.
posted by jayder at 2:43 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Positively frothing.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:44 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm not outraged.

How DARE you!
posted by yoink at 2:49 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


my discussing whether or not they consider jacking each other off as masturbation has nothing to do with me smugly gawking at poverty porn or whatever the fuck.
posted by nadawi at 2:50 PM on December 23, 2013


Brandon Blatcher: "You look outraged."

"Annoyed" ≠ "outraged."
posted by zarq at 2:51 PM on December 23, 2013


telepathic canoodlers
posted by Teakettle at 2:52 PM on December 23, 2013


I thought Spring Breakers was a terrible film on almost every level. Though these twins are in it, I don't think they even have any dialog. I'm not offended by these twin's existence at all, but I am oddly reminded of Craig Ferguson's 'Why Everything Sucks' monologue...
posted by Catblack at 2:58 PM on December 23, 2013


Also, check out this comment above: "They are the most amazing inbred trainwreck that you can't look away from, no matter how much your eyeballs burn."

That was my comment. I would rewrite it if I could and actually flagged it, though it'll probably stay since it's been quoted once or twice. I was just reacting to their obviously very skillfully crafted image and at the end of that the joke is on me, not them.

Their presentation is pretty much scientifically designed to push buttons and it works, and you can see repeatedly in this thread.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I don't think they even have any dialog

Do they finish each other's silences?
posted by yoink at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


That’s the reason you see us with all the badass bitches—we’re fucking them right an objectified novelty, and our behavior might be a reflection of being treated that way since birth.
posted by davejay at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Never before have I been forced to contemplate penis in the aggregate

1000 Miles (NSFW).
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 3:00 PM on December 23, 2013


This scenario amuses me a great deal ... And the line "we had boners and shit" is just perfect.

It's also a description of a rape.

And when something like that has happened to you, you basically have three choices: Tell no one, tell everybody you were victimized and be thought of as victims forever, or try to turn things around so that the narrative presents you as being in control, and not the person who raped you. That last alternative is an attractive one, especially for young men.
posted by Sequence at 3:07 PM on December 23, 2013 [12 favorites]


I don't know why you people are acting so aghast and offended and clutching your damn pearls.

Pearl-clutching is my kink and you are an oppressive kinkshaming hater.
posted by elizardbits at 3:10 PM on December 23, 2013 [31 favorites]


I wonder how different these comments would be if the twins were black dudes?
I feel the reaction would be slightly different. Perhaps the comment wording would change as to avoid sounding racist. If I reread some of these comments but picture these two guys as black dudes the tone seems quite different. That being said these guys seem pretty hilarious. We seem to forget that the hip hop culture/language is WAY more prevalent than upper middle class peeps are willing to admit.
posted by khappucino at 3:13 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I wonder how different these comments would be if the twins were black dudes?
I feel the reaction would be slightly different

Yes, because the situation would be slightly different.

(Note: I do, in fact, often wear pearls, but I fidget with them more than I clutch them.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 3:19 PM on December 23, 2013


I wonder how different these comments would be if the twins were black dudes?

What if they were women? What if they were black women? What if they were blind left handed native american men? What, specifically, is your point? Cryptic statements about hypothetically toned comments are like, the least helpful thing ever.
posted by elizardbits at 3:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [13 favorites]


If they were black dudes, they wouldn't be parroting black culture. They would be part of it.
posted by Megafly at 3:23 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I thought Spring Breakers was a terrible film on almost every level.

Now THIS is something I can flat out disagree with.

Spring Breakers was the best movie of 2013. Nothing else came remotely close.
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:23 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also, is sexism and greed and gold obsession "black culture"? I thought it was lower-class culture, flat out. And all accounts say these two are pretty squarely that.
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:25 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Spring Breakers was the best movie of 2013. Nothing else came remotely close.

Sounds like someone didn't see Jurassic Park 3D.
posted by elizardbits at 3:26 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


The best thing about this is, you know how you can sometimes pick a raging asshole in the street, or within the first few seconds of meeting them? Well, with these guys, you only need to meet one and you've already got yourself a 200% avoidance rate. That's mad efficient.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:26 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I wonder how different these comments would be if the twins were black dudes?

What if they were women? What if they were black women? What if they were blind left handed native american men? What, specifically, is your point? Cryptic statements about hypothetically toned comments are like, the least helpful thing ever.
I'm wondering if the reaction is more due to the specific behaviors or the fact that these guys are acting out hip hop culture.
posted by khappucino at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


What if they were women? What if they were black women? What if they were blind left handed native american men?

If they were robots, they'd probably have, like, detachable dicks or something.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:28 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


And when something like that has happened to you, you basically have three choices: Tell no one, tell everybody you were victimized and be thought of as victims forever, or try to turn things around so that the narrative presents you as being in control, and not the person who raped you. That last alternative is an attractive one, especially for young men.

Isn't there a fourth option, especially for teen boys ... "Enjoy it"?
posted by jayder at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I'm wondering if the reaction is more due to the specific behaviors or the fact that these guys are acting out hip hop culture.

That's actually a really helpful clarification, thank you.
posted by elizardbits at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2013


> Spring Breakers was the best movie of 2013. Nothing else came remotely close.

Now, you know that's bullshit although it was an entertaining movie.
posted by planetesimal at 3:30 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Jayder, experiencing pleasure does not render it not-rape when you were not able to give consent and the other person had sex with you anyway. That's what rape is. That is always what rape is, no matter what genders are involved.
posted by Sequence at 3:32 PM on December 23, 2013 [19 favorites]


Well, they did they're reacting to having they heart broken, so your annoyance for a perfectly understandable human reaction is odd
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:34 PM on December 23, 2013


an objectified novelty, and our behavior might be a reflection of being treated that way since birth.

This, plus the depressingly shitty childhood. I don't have a lot of trouble seeing through the hard talking pose. They're using what they have the best way they can think of, and they don't seem to be hurting anybody. I might change my mind if I could actually bring myself to watch any of the video of them, but just from reading the interviews I kind of like them.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:37 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Thankfully, misogyny is not fatal and a lot of people do get better.

Well not if you're male.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 3:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I found them surprisingly likeable in the first linked interview (did not look at the videos.) The way they talk reminded me a bit of Jason Mewes' character Jay (who is crude as fuck and all about the pussy, but you just can't not like the dude.)

I gave the hip-hop language a pass. I don't think they are emulating hip-hop culture as much as they just grew up in it. If you're from the hood (however you define that) then you're from the hood. I don't think poor white kids who grow up in mixed neighborhoods are appropriating anything.

They really don't seem like bad sorts, and I kind of admire the forthrightness.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:43 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Harmony seems to love Sid and Thurm for all the same reasons I [Nieratko] do:
The ATL Twins are the great American depraved underbelly come to life. Pathological fucktards and whore bangers. They are everything and nothing. They don’t eat food; they only snort drugs. Their hobby is passing kidney stones. They are mystic scumbags of the highest order. Double-penetrating hos is their religion. Neither one of them has ever read a book. Neither one of them has ever eaten a vegetable. They sleep in the same bed and shower together. All they want is fame and pussy. They are America’s greatest degenerates. I admire them both. They are free of all constraints. They will inherit the earth and drive it headfirst into the abyss. They are what makes America great.
posted by maggieb at 3:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


i do love jason mewes, but i pretty much just get sad when seeing his most known stuff since for a lot of it he was shitty with heroin (and other things) addiction. i do appreciate how open he, and those that love him, are about the relapses and difficulties, but it does affect my pure enjoyment of his character.
posted by nadawi at 3:48 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Brandon Blatcher: "Well, they did they're reacting to having they heart broken, so your annoyance for a perfectly understandable human reaction is odd"

Just so we're clear, you're saying sexism is "a perfectly understandable human reaction."

Okay, then.
posted by zarq at 3:48 PM on December 23, 2013


Jayder, experiencing pleasure does not render it not-rape when you were not able to give consent and the other person had sex with you anyway. That's what rape is. That is always what rape is, no matter what genders are involved.

They don't have to think of it as rape. They don't have to engage in anything like "flipping the narrative" or however you described it. They could just regard it as "yo, we got some pussy, it was cool," and be totally fine. The fact that it may legally be defined as rape doesn't mean they were actually harmed.
posted by jayder at 3:50 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Anybody else notice Frank Booth in this photo? (NSFW, but you knew that.)
posted by Strange Interlude at 3:58 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


This is the part where I realize that there are women who are really happy to be involved with these guys, and that I really just will never understand some people at all.

(I understand the guys pretty well, I think. They're certainly getting some fairly obvious rewards for this whole act.)

I have been known to exclaim HOW IS IT THESE PEOPLE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM?!?!! HOW IS THIS NATURAL SELECTION AT WORK??!? WHAT EVOLUTIONARY ADVANTAGE DO THEY HAVE?!!???? when learning about this kind of stuff. My family thinks it's hilarious to set me off on this kind of rant at holiday dinners.
posted by SMPA at 4:01 PM on December 23, 2013


HOW IS IT THESE PEOPLE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM?!?!! HOW IS THIS NATURAL SELECTION AT WORK??!? WHAT EVOLUTIONARY ADVANTAGE DO THEY HAVE?!!????

They're called nine inch dicks, Ed.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:05 PM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


This is the part where I realize that there are women who are really happy to be involved with these guys, and that I really just will never understand some people at all.

(I understand the guys pretty well, I think. They're certainly getting some fairly obvious rewards for this whole act.)

I have been known to exclaim HOW IS IT THESE PEOPLE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM?!?!! HOW IS THIS NATURAL SELECTION AT WORK??!? WHAT EVOLUTIONARY ADVANTAGE DO THEY HAVE?!!???? when learning about this kind of stuff. My family thinks it's hilarious to set me off on this kind of rant at holiday dinners.
Well I will say, if they are anything.. they are not boring.
Kind of like that ridiculous friend (you might have) that makes everything an adventure that you end up getting sucked into. Then later you walk away, saying to yourself... well THAT was something to remember.
posted by khappucino at 4:06 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


You know how people usually show the good sides of themselves in interviews?

I bet these two have some really crappy stuff hidden.
posted by surplus at 4:07 PM on December 23, 2013


HOW IS IT THESE PEOPLE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM?!?!!

People will have sex with pieces of rubber and plastic with and without batteries in them. Your question implies a kind of fallacy.
posted by George_Spiggott at 4:08 PM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


They're interesting, they're a great story, I'm sure they know how to sex pretty well, and the impression they give off in the video is one of being relatively down-to-earth. I mean, leaving aside the ridiculous performance aspects of their character. There's also a wide variation in how people interpret certain linguistic choices; I know a number of women for whom being called a "hot bitch" would be quite a compliment.

A friend of a friend fucked Tucker Max, and her reasons were pretty much the same: he's famous, he's not totally awful if you can ignore the misogyny, and he knows how to have a good sex.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:09 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


That one woman who sat on the toilet for 2 years and had to be surgically removed from it had a boyfriend.

Humans: who even fucking knows anymore.
posted by elizardbits at 4:09 PM on December 23, 2013 [22 favorites]


Another reminder that it's really the comments that make Mefi. I mean, the links themselves are fascinating but seeing so many different ideals and ideas colliding from so many different angles is great as usual.

(Also, how fucking ridiculous that the most offending part of this part is that Rory thinks that Spring Breakers is Best of 2013. Now I'm really curious to know your reasoning...)
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:10 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


People will have sex with pieces of rubber and plastic with and without batteries in them. Your question implies a kind of fallacy.

Rubber and plastic? We have become an entitled generation.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:16 PM on December 23, 2013


HOW IS IT THESE PEOPLE CAN FIND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM?!?!!

i don't think these guys would be my cup of booze filled tea, but i lost my virginity to a (stereotypical) juggalo who woo'd me by banging his head into the metal awning pole in front of our school and putting his earring into my ear. the sort of proud white trash thing these guys have going on remind me of a lot of the guys i knew growing up, including mr. juggalo (who i still love dearly). those guys were always of a ride hard, bitches&hos bravado in public, but many of them were really sweet when you got them in smaller groups where they didn't feel like they had to put that performance on so hard. all my friends hated him and would grill me about my "standards." whatever, he was funny and nice and had some damage that was similar/complimentary to my own. i'm glad we fizzled as young relationships do, but i don't regret our time together at all.


...and i must admit, he had a huge dick.
posted by nadawi at 4:18 PM on December 23, 2013 [36 favorites]


Wow we get it metafilter: you are so much more sophisticated and genetically superior than these brutish semi-humans.
posted by Halogenhat at 4:18 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


I've been taking my responses about Spring Breakers to MeMail because I wrote some lengthy stuff about it in the first SB thread. But it's the sort of thing where I have a hard time empathizing with people for whom it wasn't the best film of 2013. It felt pretty apparent coming out the first time that it was one of the best-made and most disturbing films I'd ever seen, and subsequent viewing have only made it apparent how multifaceted and nuanced it really is.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:19 PM on December 23, 2013


and even more simply - women get horny too and make decisions about fucking that aren't high minded and politically defensible. there's this idea that we're more in control of our libidos, but i think that's a generalization informed by cultural programming.
posted by nadawi at 4:20 PM on December 23, 2013 [11 favorites]


But it's the sort of thing where I have a hard time empathizing with people for whom it wasn't the best film of 2013.

Rory this is the wrongest you have ever been.
posted by elizardbits at 4:20 PM on December 23, 2013 [8 favorites]


Yeah, Spring Breakers wasn't just sleaze for its own sake, there's an interesting take on celebrity and empowerment to be found there. It's not for everyone, though.
posted by planetesimal at 4:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


It's not the celebrity angle or the misogyny aspect in particular. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd call Spring Breakers primarily a film about detachment.

And elizardbits clearly this calls for an NYC film show-off.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:23 PM on December 23, 2013


no just imagine this in 3D and you will immediately understand the gravity of your error
posted by elizardbits at 4:25 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


Alas, I am too straight for Jeff :(
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:26 PM on December 23, 2013


he knows how to have a good sex

It's like getting trolled by Borat.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:27 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


"was this shot really necessary"

what are they, fucking fascists?? of course that shot was necessary!
posted by nadawi at 4:28 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Now I really, really want to see Spring Breakers.
posted by Cookiebastard at 4:40 PM on December 23, 2013


Rory, please explain Spring Breakers to me.

Seeing it was on Netflix, my girlfriend and I tried to watch it. We both liked Gummo, which isn't exactly a popular film. I fell asleep twice trying to make it through that movie. The second time I made myself some coffee and asked my girlfriend to keep me awake. We both fell asleep. When exactly is it supposed to transition from slow-mo beer soaked adolescent tits and dubstep to something more interesting? Yeah, I get it, modern day Saturnalia or something...it just seemed all polish and no turd.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 4:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


The ATL Twins are the great American depraved underbelly come to life. Pathological fucktards and whore bangers. They are everything and nothing. They don’t eat food; they only snort drugs. Their hobby is passing kidney stones. They are mystic scumbags of the highest order.

I didn't love these guys, but I do think they seem more interesting than Harmony Korine's description of them.
posted by escabeche at 4:42 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Didn't Dean Koontz write a horror novel about these two? (Okay, he kind of did in Whispers, but identical twin superstar porn serial killers makes a great over-the-top horror novel idea.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:44 PM on December 23, 2013


Oh my god somebody just mentioned Dean Koontz's Whispers. My day is made.

fucking LOVED that book as a kid
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I do think they seem more interesting than Harmony Korine's description of them

A big part of his enjoyment of things is the intense fetishization of the superficial.
posted by elizardbits at 4:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I love reading and seeing things about people who are like this. I don't fully understand all of the outrage here. Sure, these guys have extremely crude language that fit into misogynistic and possibly homophobic constructs, and there may be very good societal reasons behind the way they act (extreme poverty; terrible role models; bad upbringing, the works...), but it's always fun to read about really strange people who are existing in a totally, completely different mindset than me and who grew up in an entirely different world than I ever did.

There are much worse people out there that can hate women in far more articulate ways than these two, just go onto reddit any hour of the day or watch CSPAN at the right time. And remember, a lot of those people don't have very good reasons.
posted by gucci mane at 4:51 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I read 'brutish semi-humans' above as 'British semi-humans', and was mildly affronted. I don't think there's been enough isolated-population genetic drift yet to really stand that one up.
posted by Devonian at 4:54 PM on December 23, 2013


Maybe they are just a inverted friendly hip hop version of Chiron and Demetrius from Titus Andronicus.
posted by khappucino at 4:55 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


'British semi-humans'

HALF MAN, HALF ELECTRIC KETTLE

possibly half man half chocolate digestive as well
posted by elizardbits at 4:57 PM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


Hey, I think the language they use is misogynist, but I think comparisons to Chiron and Demetrius go a bit far, no?
posted by [expletive deleted] at 4:57 PM on December 23, 2013


Hey, I think the language they use is misogynist, but I think comparisons to Chiron and Demetrius go a bit far, no?
I didn't write that quite the way I meant, imagine a friendly non-rapey version of them.
I say inverted because they seem to have had a very crappy starting point in life.
posted by khappucino at 5:01 PM on December 23, 2013


How could they have so much unquestioning love for each other and be so shitty to everybody else? It's creepy and fascinating.
posted by Foam Pants at 5:04 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, one of them would be in for a pretty rude awakening if something terrible happened to the other, wouldn't he?
posted by planetesimal at 5:11 PM on December 23, 2013


I'm having a difficult time lately with a weird combination of nihilism and sadness, and this story just floats around on the surface of that and I can't figure out what to do with it. Like it seems like should emulsify and give me the bemused disinterest I need to power through life and all I do is blink and it bounces right off me. Now, that's anhedonia. When you can't even enjoy a story about a couple of parasitically connected twins and their big penises and joie de vivre.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:11 PM on December 23, 2013 [9 favorites]


Well, one of them would be in for a pretty rude awakening if something terrible happened to the other, wouldn't he?

They addressed that in the video. if one died, the other would commit suicide. They did not offer any equivocation on that matter.
posted by Seymour Zamboni at 5:14 PM on December 23, 2013


How could they have so much unquestioning love for each other and be so shitty to everybody else?

All is full of love.
posted by Nomyte at 5:14 PM on December 23, 2013


To me "The hustle" is a sad replacement for "The privilege". These guys have the former.
posted by Divest_Abstraction at 5:15 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


There are much worse people out there that can hate women in far more articulate ways than these two, just go onto reddit any hour of the day or watch CSPAN at the right time. And remember, a lot of those people don't have very good reasons.

There are worse misogynists, so these misogynists are okay? These guys have better reasons to be misogynists? Like, seriously?
posted by crossoverman at 5:16 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


honestly, i was shocked that when an ex's twin died in a sudden and tragic way that she didn't follow closely behind. her internal issues magnified 100 fold, though.
posted by nadawi at 5:17 PM on December 23, 2013


CSPAN?
posted by Seymour Zamboni at 5:19 PM on December 23, 2013


When exactly is it supposed to transition from slow-mo beer soaked adolescent tits and dubstep to something more interesting? Yeah, I get it, modern day Saturnalia or something...it just seemed all polish and no turd.

If you're looking for "turd" in the sense that at some point Spring Breakers is going to tell you, "Yeah, that spring break you think is so good? It's actually terrible and these are terrible people and here is the bad thing that happens to them so that they can learn their lesson", then you're not going to find it. What makes Spring Breakers so effective is that (as elizardbits just posted as I got to this sentence) it completely embraces the delight and the appeal of the superficial. It works very hard to make spring break look exactly as appetizing as all of the people who make their pilgrimages out there believe it's going to be. That's not ALL that's happening, mind you, and the trick to Spring Breakers is that it presents you more than just the surface, but does it in a way that makes spring break seem even more fantastic (in the strict sense of the word) than it was before.

A disclaimer here is that although I've seen this movie half a dozen times now, I don't think I'm nearly well-equipped enough to offer some kind of a definitive explanation of what makes it so damn good. Sometimes I want to call it a horror movie, and it is; sometimes I want to call it a satire, and it certainly is that as well; it is a heck of a social commentary, about youth culture and sexism and racism and class and celebrity and a bunch of other things besides, but it's a commentary on so many things at once that it's hard to pin down exactly what its primary focus is. Yet it's not rough in the remotest sense. It's deliberate, and it all feels of a piece (almost hallucinatingly so), but exactly what that piece is is difficult to pin down.

At the moment I'm inclined to call it a sort of ghost story — a story of four girls who are so completely detached from, well, everything that they can afford to kind of float through the world without a worry. One of its central subversions is that next to nothing bad happens to these girls; when one of them decides to leave, then for all the efforts of Alien and the other girls and everybody else in this hellish neon world, she leaves. Immediately. Without a struggle or even much of a transition. And whatever else the girls want, they seem to get as well.

The first lines of dialogue in the movie involve a college professor lecturing his class about the civil rights, in the middle of a calm, serene campus. The first drawings of cocks and allusions to sex happen over this preamble that, rather than being deliberately shitty or whatever, seems pretty decent as far as lectures go — decent, and completely irrelevant to the lives and concerns of these girls. The things being said have major implications for the shit that happens towards the end, but neither start nor end matter whatsoever to the girls. Because they are completely detached from it all.

Even the "good" girl, Faith, who's fine with getting wasted and snorting coke but draws the line at meeting anybody non-white, only has morality in a very detached way. She's intellectually capable of being disturbed by her friends' behaviors, and there are scenes where she's horrified by their actions, but at all times it's a cerebral exercise for her. "You shouldn't do that because X", and then it's back to coke and booze and wishing idly that spring break could last forever, because the real world sucks in comparison. After her boring prayer circle meeting (which again isn't "boring" in the usual movie sense so much as it's irrelevant to our character), Faith's friends warn her about her "devil friends", which, yeah, pretty much spot-on, but Faith giggles and tells them "I've known them all my life," so of course it's safe to go off with them! Nothing's going to happen to her. These dangerous girls are her friends. (We can argue about how this is not a good interpretation of Christian faith, or talk about how Spring Breakers is a weirdly pro-Christianity movie in a quiet, quiet way, some other time, maybe.)

An early recurring phrase (of which there are many) is "Pretend like it's a movie. Pretend like you're in a video game," and it's being spoken over these girls stealing a car, robbing a restaurant at gunpoint, and then burning the car when they're through with it. Initially all this is portrayed in a very hazy, dreamlike way — you don't see inside the restaurant, you see silhouettes as a pop song plays. It's a synecdoche for the movie as a whole in a sense: horrible things happen beneath a pleasing sedative. And then after the horrible things happen, the girls get to do whatever they want! Because they are always the instigators, and never the victims.

With one exception.

That exception is when, halfway through the movie, they're arrested for the aforementioned coke-snorting fiasco. Which is the circle of justice as it's supposed to work — you break a minor law, you spend a few days in jail, spring break over, you go home. Whatever. But here's where James Franco's Alien comes in, as the movie's real protagonist. Alien's just as self-centered and hedonistic as these girls, but — unlike them — he's a part of this world they're merely touristing their way through. He doesn't entirely belong, which is why Gucci Mane's all waving automatic weaponry in his face, and he's not a huge success in any of the ways he'd like to be: he doesn't have women, he isn't a famous rapper, he isn't a crime kingpin. But he's got roots here, he's got a history, and that's both a blessing and a curse. He gets to free these girls from punishment, and in return he has to deal with them, with decidedly mixed results.

I don't want to spoil this movie for you, since you say you haven't finished seeing it, but I think that it's Alien who plays the part of the tragic hero in this movie, in a sick and twisted way. He lives a scummy criminal life, but there's this sense that he fits into this ecosystem, somewhat, and that the arrival of the girls throws that completely off, with brutal results. You can also call this movie a love story, between him and the girls that he rescues, and it starts off with him exploiting them before the tables are turned and then him realizing that he's discovered something here beyond his wildest dreams and then him having the hubris to use these newfound dreamgirls to do things that he was never, ever able to do. Because for all his supposed celebrity and legend, Alien's got a place too, he's not free in the way that these spring breakers are, and when he pushes too far he finds himself in a hell of a lot of hurt, and the girls just float away once more.

Cutting this off here, because this is a VERY rich and multifaceted movie, and I don't understand it well enough to form my thoughts into any kind of a cohesive anything. But that's the most recent way I've thought to look at it, and I'm sure there are many, many, many more. Seeing it changed my idea of what movies could be, and I am not an amateur when it comes to seeing groundbreaking and edgy films. Feel free to MeMail me if you want me to go on more, because heaven knows I love the shit out of this movie.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:20 PM on December 23, 2013 [20 favorites]


When you can't even enjoy a story about a couple of parasitically connected twins and their big penises and joie de vivre.

This is l'ennui and the traditional treatment is black coffee, gauloises, and heroin.
posted by elizardbits at 5:20 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


CSPAN?

yeah, like these guys.
posted by nadawi at 5:21 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


C-SPAN? It's a channel that shows the US House of Representatives, the seething hotbed of official misogyny and rape apologetics.
posted by elizardbits at 5:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


Honestly, even though I keed, I found this whole article incredibly depressing, particularly the story of their being molested at thirteen. It's easy to see how the weirdness and misogyny all spirals out from that (combined with the crushing poverty). The picture of them back then is especially heartbreaking.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:37 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


They are free of all constraints. They will inherit the earth and drive it headfirst into the abyss. They are what makes America great.
You see, about his protégés/toys, Andy would've just said "Wow. Aren't they great?" No need for a hard sell from the master.

Seriously, neither of these guys rate outrage or even much annoyance because they're such dullards, really. So they like to eat, fuck, take drugs, and seek attention. Big deal. Lots of people like the same thing. You could drag a pussy and a bag of weed through every town in America and find dozens (and dozens of dozens) of guys like these dudes and if you were lucky some of them might even be twins. Anyone who thinks these guys are something special hasn't spent enough time around semi-entertaining lowlifes.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:39 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


gucci mane: "but it's always fun to read about really strange people who are existing in a totally, completely different mindset than me and who grew up in an entirely different world than I ever did. "

I think some people, myself included, have trouble distancing ourselves from these stories to the point where we can call it "fun" to read about them. It just makes me sad. These are our fellow human beings, and to some extent, I feel like this gawking, point-and-laugh attitude, as if they're animals in a zoo exhibit, is what creates the demand for them to act out in these attention-seeking, Vice-interview-worthy ways.

And, really, what exactly are we learning about their mindset by seeing them in a situation where they're obviously showing off for the cameras and reporters? How do we know how much is really from them, versus how much to attribute to their desire to maintain their notoriety in a fickle pop culture ecosystem that could stop paying attention to them tomorrow if someone even more outrageous comes along?

I'm sure some will say that, well, they've managed to gain some fame and money from their schtick, so it's better than if they were stealing cars or selling meth or whatever, but in the long run, for the rest of us, I don't know for sure if that's the case. Human beings crave attention. If you create a market for this kind of freak show, don't you necessarily create more freaks in the minor league, semi-pro, and wanna-be levels waiting to be part of the next freak show? What stops this from being a race to the bottom for everyone to out-douche each other?

This is why I can't enjoy stories like this. I would totally watch a documentary about poverty in the Chattanooga neighborhood they grew up in, but I don't feel like I'm entertained or informed by seeing them showing off for the cameras.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm not quite on board with Spring Breakers being the best movie of the year, but it's definitely top three.
posted by dogwalker at 5:42 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Thanks Rory. I'll give it another shot. I think I got hung up on some stylistic elements in the beginning that were meant to be jarring and unpleasant and just...disengaged.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:44 PM on December 23, 2013


You could drag a pussy

Lovely.
posted by crossoverman at 5:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


both looking forward to marrying the same woman and fathering the same child.

My husband is an identical twin, so I asked him if his brother is technically our son's father, too. It all went downhill from there.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [21 favorites]


Like tonycpsu, I just found the article discouraging. Their life just seemed so shallow and meaningless (not saying mine will end up in a history of the world any time soon). The merry go round will stop soon enough and what then? The misogyny was just plain awful.
posted by arcticseal at 5:47 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh these articles are delicious. Such a wonderful stew of white trashery, thug life, demi-celebrities, young male horniness. And then doubled down with twins! I hope to think these boys are having fun with constructing their awful personas and end up making some minor success of it. Because in 10 years, man, it's gonna be ugly.

Anyway they've got nothing on Dead Ringers for psychopathic twin stories. ATL Twins, call me back when you start collecting gynecological instruments for mutant women.

Metafilter: When I say bitches I don't mean bitch like that
posted by Nelson at 5:58 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Also gotta dig this Football Sunday tweet.
posted by Nelson at 6:00 PM on December 23, 2013


Human beings crave attention. If you create a market for this kind of freak show, don't you necessarily create more freaks in the minor league, semi-pro, and wanna-be levels waiting to be part of the next freak show? What stops this from being a race to the bottom for everyone to out-douche each other?

Nothing. Where have you been for the last 15 years?

Or 50, really. These gents are 2013's answer to Joe Dellesandro. "Candy came from out on the Island...."
posted by Diablevert at 6:15 PM on December 23, 2013


They're still no Icy Hot Stuntaz.
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:17 PM on December 23, 2013 [6 favorites]


I thought they were pretty cool in the last Matrix movie.
posted by kjs3 at 6:18 PM on December 23, 2013


Oh yeah, it's extremely natural for humans to behave that way, but it isn't pretty, no. Not everyone runs in the upper middle class circles of a major city who pretend not have a strain of 'isms' floating through their head half the time. At least the twins aren't pretending, you know exactly what you're getting, no passive aggressive smiles and small talk
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:22 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


seriously, can't you take your weird fight with zarq to memail or just drop it already?
posted by nadawi at 6:24 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


This is l'ennui and the traditional treatment is black coffee, gauloises, and heroin.

I'm forty-four, I live in the suburbs, I'm buying Christmas dinner from Whole Foods, I'm wearing underwear I bought at The Gap. I have a kid. I can't even smoke. I'm not cool enough for any of those.

Martinis, though. That's where middle-class ennui starts to shine.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 6:25 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Lately Metafilter threads always seem to end up with people talking about their underwear.
posted by sweetkid at 6:27 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


For an example of how it's a very carefully constructed act, someone pasted Harmon's description of them above:

...Pathological fucktards and whore bangers. They are everything and nothing. They don’t eat food; they only snort drugs. Their hobby is passing kidney stones. They are mystic scumbags of the highest order. Double-penetrating hos is their religion. Neither one of them has ever read a book. Neither one of them has ever eaten a vegetable. ...

In that Creative Loafing article that was linked way up near the top, the intrepid reporter is snorting cocaine and drinking with them, getting the full-on version of their "ATL" lifestyle:

At some point during that second night I spent hanging out with the Twins, drunk and head buzzing from the coke, I looked over at one of the Twins, I couldn't tell you which, and asked, "Do y'all ever fucking eat dinner?"

"Oh, yeah," he told me. "Most nights aren't really like this. We usually order Fresh to Go or Chinese food or some shit and watch a movie."

posted by Dip Flash at 6:27 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Middle-class ennui is best paired with a fine scotch and a resolution to never speak of it again.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:28 PM on December 23, 2013


People will have sex with pieces of rubber and plastic with and without batteries in them. Your question implies a kind of fallacy.

Or...a kind of phallacy, if you will.

COME ON PEOPLE LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO
posted by Salvor Hardin at 6:29 PM on December 23, 2013 [12 favorites]


Hoopo: I think a lot of guys can look back on some stuff they did when they were younger and think "jeez that was kinda douchey." Now imagine being in that douchey moment with another guy exactly like you encouraging you through it all and validating you. It's like a douchey feedback loop.

Wow, that's... oddly plausible. I've often wondered/fantasized about having a twin, and maybe it's good that I wasn't.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:37 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


There's a lot to debate in this thread. But we should all agree that if you considering the topic of "aggregate dick measuring", 2 9-inches is not truly the same as one hypothetical 18-inch. If one is preferable to the other is a matter of choice, but they are most definitely not the same.

Thank you for your consideration.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:05 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Oh yeah, it's extremely natural for humans to behave that way, but it isn't pretty, no. Not everyone runs in the upper middle class circles of a major city who pretend not have a strain of 'isms' floating through their head half the time. At least the twins aren't pretending ...

I really hope some day some of you dawgs realize it's possible to have a big dick and do drugs and have confident enthusiastic casual (or not) sex with hot women without fetishizing misogynist fake-thug life from behind a computer screen.
posted by crayz at 7:07 PM on December 23, 2013 [5 favorites]


I don't know, you'd better blaze the way there, dawg.
posted by planetesimal at 7:23 PM on December 23, 2013


I love how we take their word they both have 9 inch dicks.
posted by crossoverman at 7:26 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


So the first link I clicked on was the French Spring Breakers trailer and I was totally distracted by the fact that when James Franco says "big booties" the subtitles translate it as "petits culs". I guess if you're French you can deny.

It's actually possible^ for two (or more) men to father a single child, as long as there's also a woman involved to do all the hard work.
posted by XMLicious at 7:32 PM on December 23, 2013


(though interestingly, in this case a chimera would also be genetically indistinguishable from a child fathered by just one of them)
posted by XMLicious at 7:34 PM on December 23, 2013


This is l'ennui and the traditional treatment is black coffee, gauloises, and heroin.

WARNING: This Treatment Did Not Cure the People Who Took It and Is Not Recommended By the FDA (FREEDOM DRUG ADMINISTRATION)
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:43 PM on December 23, 2013


I'm with Ruthless Bunny and Kitteh....I've lived in or immediately around the ATL my whole life (currently, happily in midtown), have a pretty active social life, go out a good bit, have friends from all walks of life and happily mix and have fun with all of my Atlanta brethren and I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THESE GUYS. Please don't let these "gentleman" color your views of our fair city. From the view from their window in the picture....I'm fairly certain that I have a close friend who HAS to live either right next to or above or below them. I better warn him.
posted by pearlybob at 7:57 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


i don't take their word about their dick size. i basically always subtract 2in from whatever a guy says because it's been my experience that any guy who know as actual ruler mark has done some pretty impressive gymnastics, including but not limited to measuring from their asshole, to get the number.
posted by nadawi at 8:12 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I must have seen the words "pearl clutching" in threads four times this week. Is there some reason it is so huge now?
posted by steinsaltz at 8:19 PM on December 23, 2013


Nine inch pearls, baby.
posted by planetesimal at 8:24 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Is there like an official place to measure your dick length from? I thought you just start from the point where it stops being torso, right?
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:29 PM on December 23, 2013


Measuring from there will give you the useful length, yes. But starting from underneath gives you some wiggle room to come up with a more impressive public number.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 8:31 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Measuring from there will give you the useful length, yes. But starting from underneath gives you some wiggle room to come up with a more impressive public number.

Exactly! If you measure the length instead from the duct on the rear of the scrotum, you'll find it makes a vas deferens.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 8:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [32 favorites]


But starting from underneath gives you some wiggle room to come up with a more impressive public number.

i swear to god I read this as a more impressive pubic number
posted by KathrynT at 8:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


pretty sure some dudes measure from the top of the ass crack forward
posted by elizardbits at 8:44 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Nine inch penises and pearl necklaces just go together.
posted by crossoverman at 8:44 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


and i mean, i haven't even requested this information. it's just given to me as though it is a valuable metric in any demonstrable manner.
posted by elizardbits at 8:44 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


either i don't care at all, or i am on the way to finding out for myself and you are going to feel that sharp sting of humiliated regret when i give you The People's Eyebrow.
posted by elizardbits at 8:46 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


I always just say "four inches" because it's funnier than giving a shit. Am I a party pooper?
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:47 PM on December 23, 2013


I think I might start casually throwing into conversations various hilarious "data points" about the crushing power per square inch of my vajeeper. "Like a bear trap!"
posted by elizardbits at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2013 [13 favorites]


You use tape to measure from tip to base on both top and bottom to plot any arcing, and allow for full testicle descension to not obscure the lower base. You then take the greater value for official length. Erections are assumed to eliminate the myriad of variances within flaccidity. That's how you measure your dick.
posted by planetesimal at 8:51 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


what if you wrap the tape around it like a maypole
posted by elizardbits at 8:53 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


Then you're a cheatin' four incher.
posted by planetesimal at 8:55 PM on December 23, 2013


Or else into CBT.
posted by planetesimal at 8:56 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


relevant and NSFW and relevant
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:57 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think median length is about 5.5 inches and that sounds short to most people, so guys just say 7-9 inches for the hell of it, even though 6 is a little above average.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:58 PM on December 23, 2013


Wait, you mean ladies aren't out there trying to one-up each other on vaginal capacity? So we've been measuring our peckers all this time for nothing? The tape measure industry is not going to take this well.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:00 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


It seems like at this point we just need to gift these dudes an account and get them typing up in here so we can justify this general direction.
posted by planetesimal at 9:03 PM on December 23, 2013


How long should a man's penis be? Long enough to reach the cervix.
posted by stet at 9:03 PM on December 23, 2013


Am I a party pooper?

I'm not going to judge your kink.
posted by crossoverman at 9:05 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Long enough to shiatsu the cervix, not just tickle.
posted by planetesimal at 9:06 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Long enough to reach the cervix.

That, good sir, is DEFINITELY a matter of personal taste.
posted by KathrynT at 9:06 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


Is there like an official place to measure your dick length from?

Des Moines.

When you live in New York.

I'll show myself out.
posted by zarq at 9:07 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


using a string to help plot any angle or curve (from here on out called "the jay-z") and then measuring the string is one of the most useful ways, I think.
posted by nadawi at 9:12 PM on December 23, 2013


How long should a man's penis be? Long enough to reach the cervix.

Ouch.
posted by gaspode at 9:19 PM on December 23, 2013


Honestly though doubting women, there is such a thing as a cervical orgasm, and it is different ... "shiatsu the cervix" is about as good a methodological description as I've heard.
posted by crayz at 9:27 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


just because it is a thing doesn't mean everyone wants it. some women have an incredibly tender cervix and no orgasm would be worth it.
posted by nadawi at 9:38 PM on December 23, 2013 [4 favorites]


just because it is a thing doesn't mean everyone wants it. some women have an incredibly tender cervix and no orgasm would be worth it.

yeah. Seconding this. Or even if that sometimes sounds fun, boy howdy, not always.
posted by KathrynT at 9:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Long enough to reach the cervix.

It's gonna need to be at least 25 feet long then because I am not getting up off the couch to open the front door.
posted by elizardbits at 9:43 PM on December 23, 2013 [27 favorites]


Honestly though doubting women, there is such a thing as a cervical orgasm, and it is different

crayz speaks here with the confidence of a man just itching to tell us something. but what. what could it be
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [11 favorites]


also must be mighty enough to smash down a steel fire door i guess

so thor basically
posted by elizardbits at 9:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [2 favorites]


Candygram?
posted by planetesimal at 9:45 PM on December 23, 2013


just because it is a thing doesn't mean everyone wants it.

Didn't mean to suggest it was like chancing a little peck on the cheek.

crayz speaks here with the confidence of a man just itching to tell us something. but what. what could it be

I've got long fingers ... well gee now it's public record.
posted by crayz at 9:49 PM on December 23, 2013


Well, I was trying to make an Abe Lincoln "legs should be long enough to reach the ground" joke. Suffice to say it went amiss. My apologies to cervices in general.
posted by stet at 9:49 PM on December 23, 2013


Honestly though doubting women, there is such a thing as a cervical orgasm,

Even if there is... DO NOT WANT.

I have experienced a penis knocking against my cervix and it was enough to make me abort the entire procedure in order to turn the ouch off and turn the on back on again.
posted by sonika at 9:55 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well, we really need to get Sid and Thurm's expert opinion on this.

Also, I was just trying to parse that grammatically and realized I didn't have to worry about it being plural because clearly they would have one definitive opinion on cervical orgasms.
posted by planetesimal at 10:03 PM on December 23, 2013


Candygram?

Check out the land shark on that dude, if you know what I mean.
posted by Nomyte at 10:23 PM on December 23, 2013 [3 favorites]


Please don't let these "gentleman" color your views of our fair city. From the view from their window in the picture....I'm fairly certain that I have a close friend who HAS to live either right next to or above or below them. I better warn him.

I can't tell how serious your comment is, but they're paralegals who work like 60 hours per week so that they can afford to live as large-ish as possible. Extremely scary stuff. Especially when they order Chinese and sit around watching movies most nights. *shudder*

Honestly, they really don't seem all that bad to me, and the more I read/watched, the more they really, really grew on me.

They're quirky as fuck with their very impressive grills and the trying-real-hard-to-get-famous thing, but I got a pretty honest vibe from them for the most part. I heard some language that made my feminist ears perk up, but I was not left with the impression that they hate women. While I wouldn't want to fuck them because they're just not my type, I'd love to hang out with them. I think it'd be a blast. They're so freaky/interesting (to me), and I love that they're super into the "double life" they're leading; that was kind of endearing.

And not for nothing, I saw a fair bit of flaccid junk in those boxers in the (second?) video where they're dressing for work, and I don't doubt their claims. 9 inches is big, but it's not huge. Totally plausible.
posted by heyho at 10:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [7 favorites]


"I have experienced a penis knocking against my cervix and it was enough to make me abort the entire procedure in order to turn the ouch off and turn the on back on again."

It feels unpleasant from this side of things, too. Scratchy.

I didn't know anyone found it pleasurable, but people are extremely varied in what they enjoy sexually. Which is fine.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:14 AM on December 24, 2013


On balance, I gotta retract any snark I dished on these guys. They're a kind of praxis of their environment, and they're authentic. They don't seem to be hurting anyone, and they're mostly just positive bundles of mature puppy energy.

I can't get over grills no matter what skin tone, though.
posted by planetesimal at 12:24 AM on December 24, 2013


Ivan, scratchy? Like a cat's tongue? Might want to get that looked at.

My Most Attractive Physical Feature Is My Cervix
posted by maggieb at 1:04 AM on December 24, 2013


You got to love MetFilter. The two most dreadful guys in the universe come along trying to get famous for nothing, we all obviously hate them, and then 300 comments later the comments have moved round to gently admiring these end-of-the-world freak show media constructs and earnestly defending the likelihood of them having 9 inch penises.

Btw, on Planet Earth 9 inches is definitely a 'huge' penis. That's why they said it.
posted by colie at 2:03 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


Is not everyone entitled to inform the word of their opinion?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:15 AM on December 24, 2013


I meant it fondly - one's opinion is something that shifts around, and ideally during the course of a comments thread. Obviously 400 comments of the same thing is kind of pointless, so this is quite a nice thread. I'm sure these guys are lovely and I look forward to them meeting my teenage daughter.
posted by colie at 2:30 AM on December 24, 2013


"The two most dreadful guys in the universe" ? We all hate them?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:01 AM on December 24, 2013


"The two most dreadful guys in the universe" ?

That is indeed an opinion of mine, of which I have informed the world, thanks to my entitlement.

We all hate them?


I stand corrected - lots of people don't hate them, despite the thread starting out very much in that direction. The larger point is that we don't really know them anyway so the more interesting topic is how this kind of reality-TV-meets-Vice-and-Terry Richardson lifestyle stuff is working on our brains and where it's all going. Or something like that.

:-)
posted by colie at 3:06 AM on December 24, 2013


Well, I know I hate them. Or more accurately am simultaneously bored, annoyed, dismayed and sometimes infuriated by them, by a culture that seems to worship them, by the certainty that some people look up to them as some kind of role model. I find them boorish, and if I were in a conversation with them, I would strive to not be in a conversation with them. "Hate" is something of a vague word here, possibly indicative of a wide range of negative opinion; I don't think they are Hitler, but I think they consider themselves the center of their own personal Jersey Shore, and that's not admiration talking.

the comments have moved round to gently admiring these end-of-the-world freak show media constructs and earnestly defending the likelihood of them having 9 inch penises.

I've noticed this kind of conversation drift many times, both from having caused it and being dismayed by it. Really, though, I think what happens is this:

1. Thread begins. Lots of people chime in with initial comments, discussing surface aspects, either disapproving/admiring some obvious aspect of the thing. They don't have a great deal to say, because who wants to repeat obvious things, especially if someone else has already siad them? So most of them say their piece and leave.

2. As comments pile up, people have more time to look at the entirety of the article. This brings out more nuanced opinions, less obvious takes on a thing. No one, or not many, people have said it, so they mention it in the thread.

3. Sometimes people react to that, but on the whole the large body of earlier comments still stands, and anyway life is short and there are more threads to read. The new take is still more novel, and so tends to draw more comments.

The result is, in long threads, the liklihood of the tenor of the conversation reaching a neutral point increases. It's not a certainty, sometimes a thread peters out before that happens, sometimes there really is no opposite point to be found (in obit threads that's often disrespectful, and pretty much everyone loves Mr. Rogers), but it explains why sometimes threads reach a place (whatever that means) that one might find surprising, and again demonstrates why one should not look at "Metafilter" as having a point of view.
posted by JHarris at 4:09 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


All I have to say is once again GQ has an interview that sparks the darndest comments.....who knew GQ was going to become such a hotbed of thought and discussion....if you can call it thought.
posted by OhSusannah at 7:27 AM on December 24, 2013


All I have to say is once again GQ has an interview that sparks the darndest comments.....who knew GQ was going to become such a hotbed of thought and discussion....if you can call it thought.

Yes, I was surprised to learn that the whole Duck Dynasty mess was started by a GQ interview.

earnestly defending the likelihood of them having 9 inch penises.

I believe it because I think they would be happy to prove it if challenged.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:38 AM on December 24, 2013


You got to love MetFilter. The two most dreadful guys in the universe come along trying to get famous for nothing, we all obviously hate them, and then 300 comments later the comments have moved round to gently admiring these end-of-the-world freak show media constructs and earnestly defending the likelihood of them having 9 inch penises.

You lovely creature, you, I don't give a shit if the "first!" people in the thread declare something disgusting/creepy/dreadful/whatever. Do you honestly think that the people who see the thread first are the correct people with more authentic opinions? Because I have big news for you: you'll enjoy MeFi a lot more if you disabuse yourself of that notion.

My comment came late in the thread because that's when I got around to reading it all, then commenting. Then I said what I said because that's what I think, independent of what you and others think. Cuz, you know, I'm a real maverick like that. Just like most of the other people in this thread... but not all of us, apparently. Interesting.


Btw, on Planet Earth 9 inches is definitely a 'huge' penis. That's why they said it.

I'm afraid you and I have simply had different experiences, and therefore our conclusions are going to be different. It's okay, all penises are capable of being loved; it's not that kind of judgment.
posted by heyho at 8:25 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


I dunno, man. According to the Ansell study, a 9" penis is larger than 99.99% of human penes. That seems like a pretty good qualification of "huge" to me.
posted by KathrynT at 8:37 AM on December 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


Oh, man. Imagine how embarrassing it would be for them if one had a 9" cock and one had a 4".
posted by KathrynT at 8:38 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


I've seen huge, and it was a fair bit bigger than that. Again, "huge" is a conclusion, and I'm basing mine on some experience, not a book. But really, who cares?! That I've run up against bigger penises is not something I put on my resume or am proud of—it's just true. You can "dunno" all you like, but it doesn't change anything! (This is the weirdest disagreement I've seen in a while, and I'm finding it really funny!)
posted by heyho at 8:47 AM on December 24, 2013


yeah - depending on where you measure (and if it's a true measure), 9 is huge. a lot of porn stars are actually about 7.5-8.5, but shot at angles and with lenses that enhance the size. and, because it's the internet, here is a very nsfw tumblr page of men measuring their dicks. as you can see, a lot of them seem to think that the tape measure should start in the crook of the hip - and that some of them have photoshop. but also that a true 9 inch dick is really big. and just because you've seen bigger (as have i!) it doesn't mean that objectively it's a normal or not big size.
posted by nadawi at 8:52 AM on December 24, 2013


or to put it another way. i'm a woman who is 5'9" and a bit. in my family, i'm short - probably one of the shortest - but objectively, compared to everyone in my community or state or country or world, i'm tall. just because i know taller people it doesn't make me short.
posted by nadawi at 8:53 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Oh, man. Imagine how embarrassing it would be for them if one had a 9" cock and one had a 4".

Well, the total is 18", so it would be like 14" and 4", respectively. They'd be a lot easier to tell apart that way at least.

For what it's worth, 9" is off the end of most penis size histograms I could find on Google (eg). Penises that size and bigger exist, but they are not normal.

As shown in nadawi's measuring link, people get creative in their measuring techniques. (And when a ruler isn't involved, most people are terrible at estimating dimensions and tend to exagerate -- "The fish was this big!")
posted by Dip Flash at 9:02 AM on December 24, 2013


i think this a great (again, nsfw!) illustration of how penis size can get measured and shown online (npb = not pushed back against pelvic bone, bp = pushed back against pelvic bone).
posted by nadawi at 9:05 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


It makes total sense that this thread has ended up as a discussion of just exactly how big a dick these guys are.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:09 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


Actually, it's now about how much dick they have. Which is odd, because there's only one way to find out.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:32 AM on December 24, 2013


really it's moved on to how dicks are measured in the first place and what is or is not a "big dick." keep up.
posted by nadawi at 9:33 AM on December 24, 2013


Actually, it's now about how much dick they have. Which is odd, because there's only one way to find out.

No, it's also about whether 9 inches can be referred to as a 'huge' penis or not. Heyho has personal experience of a subset of world penii among which 9 inches is not particularly large; most other correspondents to this thread (and what available scientific studies there are) are of the opposing view that 9 inches is actually extremely large compared to any kind of meaningful average.

Second, they may well do porn soon, but even then the penii will not likely be reliably measured and in porn a somewhat-larger-than-average member can look enormous with the right angles etc.

Added to that, these guys seem to boast about everything else in their lives, so why not just assume they're boasting about this minor detail too?
posted by colie at 9:47 AM on December 24, 2013


Oooo I like this discussion. It seems to me that comparing to the average is the only reasonable way to make a comparison here, and 9" is way above average. Surely we must conclude that the mere fact that outliers exist doesn't change that judgment? It's like saying a person who is 6'10" isn't really freaking tall because Yao Ming is 7'6" and 7'6" is much taller than 6'10".
posted by Justinian at 9:57 AM on December 24, 2013


it's also about whether 9 inches can be referred to as a 'huge' penis or not. Heyho has personal experience of a subset of world penii among which 9 inches is not particularly large

colie, please re-read what I said if you're going to get all worked up about it. I didn't say that's not a large penis. I said it's big. I also implied that I don't think they're exaggerating because they didn't pull out a number I'd consider huge. (For instance, if they were running around saying, "We have massive 13-inch cocks!" I'd probably wonder if they're telling the truth; but they're not saying that, so in my view, what they're saying is plausible.) And that's all.

They guys themselves, as far as I can tell, never claimed they're penises are huge. In the first video, they say they have "big-ass dicks." I am the one who brought up the word "huge" in reference to them.

I also never told you or anyone else on Planet Earth that you cannot refer to a nine-inch penis as "huge." YOU SAID THAT. Get it straight, and please leave me out of it if you're just going to toss shit out willy-nilly like that.
posted by heyho at 9:59 AM on December 24, 2013


MetaFilter: Overthinking the frank and beans.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:02 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'm struggling here.

"I also never told you or anyone else on Planet Earth that you cannot refer to a nine-inch penis as "huge." "

Earlier:

"9 inches is big, but it's not huge."

OK, so technically you didn't say I couldn't refer to it as huge, but you did clearly say I would be wrong to refer to it as huge. 'Huge' is not entirely relative...?

Anyway it's xmas, this stuff doesn't matter to either of us I'm sure - and I haven't been actually worked up about this at all and I apologise if my tone sounded like that, or if it cheesed you off. Have a good holiday seriously xxx

:-)
posted by colie at 10:07 AM on December 24, 2013


You're not wrong. I didn't imply that you're wrong. Jesus.
posted by heyho at 10:10 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


heyho, I think you're reading a level of acrimony in the room that just isn't there.
posted by KathrynT at 10:15 AM on December 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


[Folks, please leave this be now? Thanks.]
posted by jessamyn at 10:26 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I prefer the Brown Twins.
posted by wellvis at 11:08 AM on December 24, 2013


These guys claim they've DP'd some "freaky" women ...

So while we're talking about impressive physical endowments, anybody here got any love for the women who can take all that meat at once?
posted by jayder at 11:36 AM on December 24, 2013


colie: Btw, on Planet Earth 9 inches is definitely a 'huge' penis.

I'm completely fuckin' lost. Where in the solar system is this Planet Earth 9? And what dialect do they speak there in which they refer to a "huge penis" as "inches"? Or are you talking about the place in that Neill Blomkamp flick from a few years ago?
posted by gman at 12:43 PM on December 24, 2013


I always just say "four inches" because it's funnier than giving a shit. Am I a party pooper?

If you're pooping with your dick you're taking "yer doin' it wrong" to a whole 'nuther level.
posted by yoink at 1:59 PM on December 24, 2013


I've never heard a man with a large penis brag about his penis size. Just sayin'.
posted by desuetude at 3:23 PM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I've never heard a man with a large penis brag about his penis size. Just sayin'.

You could only know this to be true if you know the size of the penis of each man whom you have heard brag about his penis size.

I'm not saying you don't, of course.
posted by kenko at 3:41 PM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


my juggalo ex bragged about his size for years and when i finally saw it i realized he had been warning me, not bragging. i was like "holy shit! are they all that big??" (they aren't, and for that i'm glad).
posted by nadawi at 5:05 PM on December 24, 2013


So they may be dumb people that call rando wemz "bitches" on the reg, but they sure look cool with those matching sunglasses. Can't deny those shades.
posted by oceanjesse at 6:07 PM on December 24, 2013


desuetude: "I've never heard a man with a large penis brag about his penis size. Just sayin'."

Ever had small penis guys brag about their size? "Whoot! 2 3/8" inches here ladiez!" isn't exactly a common refrain.
posted by Mitheral at 6:46 PM on December 24, 2013


i was like "holy shit! are they all that big??" (they aren't, and for that i'm glad).
posted by nadawi Almost 3 hours ago [+]


Penises? Or juggalo penises?
posted by jayder at 8:02 PM on December 24, 2013


his is the only juggalo penis i've seen not in photographs. i think my time for taking a fuller survey of the subculture has passed.
posted by nadawi at 8:11 PM on December 24, 2013


I imagine after articles like this, threads like this, and anything to do with Harmony Korine, Uatu the Watcher opens several bottles of Pepto Bismol
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:11 PM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


"Whoot! 2 3/8" inches here ladiez!"

When we finally learn to translate animal talk, Discovery Channel is going to be full of lines like that though.
posted by colie at 2:06 AM on December 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


"I always just say "four inches" because it's funnier than giving a shit. Am I a party pooper?"

I always just nerd out about the scientific implications of attempting to meaningfully measure them.
posted by Blasdelb at 7:23 AM on December 25, 2013


I'm picturing a bunch of panicked animals yelling, "I WAS IN THE WATERING HOLE!"
posted by zarq at 7:37 AM on December 25, 2013 [2 favorites]


"There's that creepy human with a camera again."
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:57 AM on December 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


When we finally learn to translate animal talk, Discovery Channel is going to be full of lines like that though.

Not the tapir!
posted by jessamyn at 10:01 AM on December 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


Or most ducks who hold the vertebrate record for penis size:body size ratio at a bit better than 2:1 (spiral penises at that) and who are definitely growers. Also ducks are generally rape over-achievers.
posted by Mitheral at 11:55 AM on December 25, 2013


kenko: "You could only know this to be true if you know the size of the penis of each man whom you have heard brag about his penis size. I'm not saying you don't, of course."

Word tends to get around about the measuring acumen of the guys who go on and on, unprompted, about how many dick-inches they've got. Also, it's a lazy, self-absorbed brag, not very encouraging as an indicator of sexual prowess.
posted by desuetude at 12:26 PM on December 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


big dicks also aren't an indicator of sexual prowess.
posted by nadawi at 3:17 PM on December 26, 2013


nadawi: "big dicks also aren't an indicator of sexual prowess."

Exactly.
posted by desuetude at 4:06 PM on December 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


I thought penis-measuring was something that happened only in movies like Porky's. I didn't realize men actually do it in real life. What's the point? It's not something you can change, it's not like you need to know your size to get pants to fit (unless you're a real outlier, I suppose).
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:58 PM on December 26, 2013


I didn't realize men actually do it in real life.

Oh yeah, we usually spend about 15 or 20 minutes before the weekly meeting comparing what's what.

What's the point?

Whoever's the largest each week wins a flat screen tv. 60 inch, of course.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:05 PM on December 26, 2013 [1 favorite]


Your dick is as big as you dare dream it.
posted by planetesimal at 5:12 PM on December 26, 2013


What's the point? It's not something you can change,

*Andrea del Sarto walks by whistling, failing to hide the ruler in his hand under his coat*
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:23 PM on December 26, 2013


big dicks also aren't an indicator of sexual prowess.

Doesn't hurt, though!

(until it does)
posted by kafziel at 5:33 PM on December 26, 2013 [4 favorites]


What's the point? It's not something you can change,

that doesn't seem to reduce the number of message boards dedicated to all the different methods of so called penis enlargement.
posted by nadawi at 6:01 PM on December 26, 2013


What's the point?

How else to sort the wheat from the chaff on online hookup sites?
posted by crossoverman at 6:13 PM on December 26, 2013


What's the point? It's not something you can change

I bet if you hung a weight off of it something would happen
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:13 PM on December 26, 2013


Oddly enough, no.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:10 PM on December 26, 2013


Something, sure.
posted by kenko at 11:38 AM on December 27, 2013


You know damn well this is what happens when you put weights on your dick.
posted by planetesimal at 1:00 PM on December 27, 2013


I'll be damned, but BB was right. When you hang a largish rock off your dick and lift it, nothing happens. Wow
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:05 PM on December 27, 2013


Well, that depends on who's in the audience.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:05 AM on December 28, 2013


Here's a company selling an 'exact replica' of very famous porn star Lexington Steele's penis, and it's 9 inches (of which 8 inches is insertable).

http://www.extremerestraints.com/realistic-dildos_40/the-lex-steele-realistic-dildo_3409.html
posted by colie at 10:32 AM on December 29, 2013


I personally believe that only insertable length counts.
posted by KathrynT at 5:40 PM on December 29, 2013 [4 favorites]


...it's 9 inches (of which 8 inches is insertable).

Is that false advertising? Should the Better Business Bureau be called in?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:56 PM on December 29, 2013


"Here's a company selling an 'exact replica' of very famous porn star Lexington Steele's penis, and it's 9 inches (of which 8 inches is insertable)."

Dicks that size aren't even common in porn.

I think that all the controversy upthread can be resolved if we just assume that almost universally, both how men talk about their own and everyone else thinks of them, all mentioned penis lengths are reality+2.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:25 AM on December 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


'Insertable' means that it's actually only 8 inches along the underside before the plastic Lex-derived scrotum acts as a buffer. It's further evidence of the non-standardisation of penis measurement techniques. Anyway, apparently these two guys both have a penis equal to that of arguably the leading pornstar of the last 10 years. Of course.
posted by colie at 2:24 AM on December 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well they are twins, if one does so should the other.
posted by Mitheral at 7:18 AM on December 30, 2013


I am now picturing a Penis of Reality +2 and wondering what it's capability would be like in D&D.
posted by longbaugh at 8:55 AM on December 30, 2013


I imagine it would get double damage for a backstab...
posted by longbaugh at 8:55 AM on December 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


8 inches=20 centimeters. Or 203.2 millimeters.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:31 PM on December 30, 2013


All heights could be given that way. "I'm 6' 2" but only 6" is insertable" sounds quite refined, no?
posted by Dip Flash at 8:33 PM on December 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


You could also give ductility figures, significant for the discussions about hanging weights off of it. It would allow your prospective paramour to calculate what the length would be at the surface gravity of the various planets in the solar system.

We're really pushing the envelope for penis measurement here, people. The envelope is practically engorged.
posted by XMLicious at 11:25 PM on December 30, 2013 [1 favorite]


re: performance and detachment, i thought some of the things joshua oppenheimer says in this interview with him about 'The Act Of Killing' seemed to kind of resonate:
Interestingly, the most recent example Anwar gives of movies influencing his behavior was an Elvis Presley movie, he talked about dancing out of the cinema and killing happily, drunk not on alcohol but by the cinematic identification with Elvis. This is a film about the effects of denial. About the corrupting effects of denial, about what happens when we build a normality on the basis of violence... I think that Anwar, somehow the real issue then is about escapism and denial and fantasy and how we use stories to escape from our most bitter and painful truths, how we lie to ourselves to justify our actions...

I think there's something interesting in your question, about how the camera might elicit spectacle, and the relationship between spectacle and brutality and terror. The violence that they reenact for the camera has the quality of spectacle, and in that sense it may be more spectacular than the original violence. But that may not make it more brutal. I think the actual killing may or may not have been oriented towards spectatorship. It may have been. In the sense that rape and gang rape is particularly common in violent conflict because it's a performance of one's rape for one's fellow perpetrators. So there may have been a performative quality to the violence at the time of the killing. Anwar certainly used performance after waltzing out of the cinema and killing happily. He may have used performance and the surrendering himself to a delicious role to minimize the horror that was happening at the time...

Most viewers who see the film come away thinking these men were greedy and they were rewarded with money and maybe power and that's why they did it. If you cut past all the lies that they've forced on society and clung to themselves so they can support their actions, why did Suharto take power? For power and for money. And why did the gangsters agree? Not because they were ideologically committed anti-Communists. The people they were killing weren't Communists and they knew that, because they knew some of the people they were killing. Everybody who I filmed who was involved in the killings killed for power and money and I think that's true all the way up the chain of command. Anwar and his friends were killing as hit-men before, not on this scale. In that sense, if you ask someone why they killed, they will tell you, invariably, the excuse they've clung to. The trick is to get beyond that.
posted by kliuless at 4:04 PM on January 8


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