Look at all these people, liking a thing!
December 23, 2013 11:33 PM   Subscribe

 
Read to the end.

Did not see "most people are morons" as an option.
posted by R. Schlock at 11:40 PM on December 23, 2013 [17 favorites]


Maybe I'll listen to this authors sorry pseudoscience when they learn to spell "where".

Only joking.
It's a thin article, but it raises something I've considered myself, so it must be brilliant and thought provoking.

Only joking again.

Arghhh.
I don't know what to say.
Help me.
posted by zoo at 11:45 PM on December 23, 2013 [15 favorites]


"popular" is just so meaningless as a metric of value, which is certainly the concern when I'm hating a thing. The Beatles were popular and were very, very good. (band I hate) were popular and weren't much good at all.

If you're genuinely hating on something just because it's popular, then you're not me.
posted by philip-random at 11:57 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hear hear! Popular stuff I'm liking right now:

Christmas presents wrapped up in paper containing affectionate and jokey things.
Old Christmas pop songs, like Slade, and even that East 17 one. One Direction. Those cheeky chappies!
Christmas cards with pictures of your family on them and Round Robins.
Love Actually and It's a Wonderful Life.

authors -> author's. What's that fab law where if you correct someone's grammar/spelling online you will invariably make a grammar/spelling error in your correction?
posted by alasdair at 11:57 PM on December 23, 2013 [1 favorite]


I'm gonna wait till there's a few more favourites on this post before I go whole hog...
posted by mazola at 12:06 AM on December 24, 2013 [8 favorites]


Cultural entities are all communicative. To "hate on" can be to flag anti-contributions. Is it right to confront [bad thing]? If it is right to confront [bad thing], than it must be right to confront other expressions of oppression, discrimination, callousness, hypocrisy, etc. which inhabit entertainment as much as anywhere else. I grant that there's maybe no actual delineation between asserting problematic-ness and asserting subjective not-good-enough-ness (this is case in point)

Either way aesthetic languages are no less real than their various semantic counterparts (textual, visual, symbolic, ...) Popular entertainment essentially produces more of itself; the cultural universe must be pruned in the same way that truth must propagate in a sea of misinformation. Good creative work has to be found, lusted over, reproduced and misunderstood or it stops existing. Things which are not necessarily "good creative work" must suffer the inverse.

Aside: Are we REALLY entitled to the first person? Shouldn't there be some acknowledgement of contention? How many times does philosophy have to say "Hey guys wait a minute" before the circlejerk will even try to listen?
posted by an animate objects at 12:11 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Newspaper columns at Christmas time ... Are they so hard to fill?
posted by chavenet at 12:12 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


Criticising popular things: why is it so popular?

I wonder if he would criticize criticizing popular things if it weren't. In any event, I stopped criticizing popular things after everybody started doing it.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:12 AM on December 24, 2013 [9 favorites]


The problem is that there are so many things to like, that the overlap between people's appreciation has become small.

But dislike, now, that is a thing people can agree on. And it's emotionally critical -- not nice, not important, but actually a prime goal -- to find common ground. So, we celebrate the shared ground of mutual distaste.

The nicest name I can come up with for this is the Nickelback effect. but obviously this human universal long predates that particular band.
posted by effugas at 12:14 AM on December 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


So this is about metafilter, right?

Of course not. We criticise stuff like the ATL Twins.
posted by Mezentian at 12:25 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


We all want to be special snowflakes and escape our fundamental quotidian, demotic, collective identity.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:26 AM on December 24, 2013 [10 favorites]


So, we celebrate the shared ground of mutual distaste.

This has forged longer and stronger friendships throughout my life than shared interests have.
posted by elizardbits at 12:28 AM on December 24, 2013 [30 favorites]


At least now, when you encounter someone who says they “hate Christmas” before launching into a long rant about why this is, you may have some explanation for why they’re doing this, so can safely ignore them.

I.... he..... Go on then, ignore me. See if I care, you can't take my hate from me, of Christmas or anything.
posted by Mezentian at 12:35 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


The way I see it, people look at the Titanic and how it grossed a billion and then compare it to their favorite indie film which grossed 4 million and then say: but it isn't 250 times better. This is simplistic, but if the Titanic somehow grossed 4 million, I would be recommending as a diverting underseen film.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:43 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


There are legitimate reasons for criticism, as the article notes:
Often, they have legitimate reasons for doing so. The popular thing may have unethical or potentially-illegal origins. The popular thing may actually have harmful consequences that those who like it aren’t aware of but are unwittingly contributing to. The popular thing may be intended to entertain but lacks any notable artistic credibility, achieving popularity through cynical marketing and manipulation of the media.
And that's just for starters.

In any case, I criticized everything before everything was popular.
posted by pracowity at 12:48 AM on December 24, 2013


Most people do not like even extremely popular things. The highest rated shows only draw a relatively small percentage of American households, best selling novels sell to a few million people at most. But popular things are marketed extensively, until they become unavoidable, and everyone is forced to form an opinion about them.
posted by empath at 12:51 AM on December 24, 2013 [55 favorites]


Maybe I'll listen to this authors sorry pseudoscience when they learn to spell "where".

Just in case that was at all serious, note that if this article is pseudoscience it would be pseudoscience coming from a Doctor of Neuroscience and lecturer in psychiatry at Cardiff University.
posted by XMLicious at 1:10 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


but obviously this human universal long predates that particular band

We have always been at war with Nickelback
posted by Hoopo at 1:32 AM on December 24, 2013 [44 favorites]


I'm not one to go criticizing things (I mean, I'm rarely vocal about any of my opinions), but it does irritate me when some god awful thing is absolutely everywhere.
posted by lbebber at 1:33 AM on December 24, 2013


So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
posted by isopraxis at 1:38 AM on December 24, 2013 [11 favorites]


Metafilter: Good job not liking thing!
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:56 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


But dislike, now, that is a thing people can agree on. And it's emotionally critical -- not nice, not important, but actually a prime goal -- to find common ground. So, we celebrate the shared ground of mutual distaste.

This is definitely true! I do this! I think, too, though, that part of the problem is that liking something makes you vulnerable; what if people think you're dumb for liking it? Also, if it's popular, you don't seem like an individual anymore so to make yourself stand out you need to dislike it. It can be really scary to like something and say so publicly because you're opening yourself up for ridicule.

There's also a confirmation bias thing happening; even more people are criticizing unpopular things than are criticizing popular things! If it's not popular and we criticize it, no one makes a big deal about that. In fact, then people start defending the unpopular thing (fucking Brett Favre I'm looking at you) and that becomes the story, too. Sometimes it's contrarianism, sometimes it's an expression of individuality, and sometimes it's just people saying what they think which happens to be different than what other people think which makes it noteworthy.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 2:26 AM on December 24, 2013 [8 favorites]


Criticising popular things: why is it so popular?

Because hipsters.

Doy.
posted by vapidave at 2:42 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


There's an oddity when it comes to very bland things.
They tend to be wildly popular but the subject of much derision.

I think people like to put themselves in a group by hating the bland thing.
Nope... not enough sleep to cogently write about this....zzz

What Mrs Pterodactyl said. Basically that.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:02 AM on December 24, 2013


But popular things are marketed extensively, until they become unavoidable, and everyone is forced to form an opinion about them.

I think this nails it. I don't follow sports. I don't dislike sports as such, I just don't care. Sports have no place in my mind.

And yet, sports are a huge topic of discussion, especially at work following a weekend. I'm expected to have an opinion about some team from a city I've never been to, who competed against some other team my coworker supports, from a university they didn't attend.

And by the way, did you see what Miley Cyrus did? OMG!

HUMP DAAAAAY!
posted by Fleebnork at 3:05 AM on December 24, 2013 [6 favorites]


Look at those assholes, ordinary fucking people. I hate 'em.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:19 AM on December 24, 2013 [10 favorites]


Doing so may boost someone’s self-esteem or sense of self-worth.

Not only do I hate that thing, but I hate you. I feel twice as good now.
posted by arcticseal at 3:50 AM on December 24, 2013


Thing? I hate thing.
posted by angerbot at 4:02 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Well I'm neutral, so I often see people not getting worked up about things and I think to myself, "whatever".
posted by the quidnunc kid at 4:18 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


Meanwhile, criticising the criticising of popular things often degenerates into a glib, vapid boosterism also known as smarm.
posted by acb at 4:33 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I like things.
posted by spitbull at 4:35 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Thing? I hate thing.

*SadBenGrimm.JIF*
posted by Mezentian at 4:40 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


But dislike, now, that is a thing people can agree on. And it's emotionally critical -- not nice, not important, but actually a prime goal -- to find common ground. So, we celebrate the shared ground of mutual distaste.

There are lots of popular things I'd only be indifferent to if it weren't for all the random strangers who can't seem to accept my indifference and see it as a threat to the herd.

If the cashier at the grocery store can't leave it at "I'm not that into $POPULAR_THING" and proceeds to either talk about $POPULAR_THING or even lecture me about how important $POPULAR_THING is and how everyone's into it, I'll only end up with contempt for $POPULAR_THING.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 4:41 AM on December 24, 2013


I like things.

All things? Are you some kind of nut?
posted by acb at 4:45 AM on December 24, 2013


HUMP DAAAAAY!

But... but...

I like the camel! The camel is so happy it's Wednesday!

mikemikemikemikemike
posted by potsmokinghippieoverlord at 4:48 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


I would criticize.unpopular things but then no one would know what I'm talking about
posted by The Whelk at 5:00 AM on December 24, 2013 [9 favorites]


And by the way, did you see what Miley Cyrus did? OMG!

I saw Miley Twerking Santa Claus,
Underneath the Mistletoe this year
posted by Renoroc at 5:20 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Underneath the Mistletoe Missle-toe this year.

Strax'd it.
posted by Mezentian at 5:22 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I would criticize.unpopular things but then no one would know what I'm talking about

Welcome to my world. They all float down here.
posted by Mezentian at 5:23 AM on December 24, 2013


In my adult life I have stared trying to earnestly like every popular thing. If I don't like it at first, I assume that, since so many people like it, it must have some positive qualities that I simply missed on first exposure and I give it a second chance. Very rarely do I fail to find something to like in it.

It's a nice way to live.
posted by 256 at 5:49 AM on December 24, 2013 [18 favorites]


This is a pretty popular post. It sucks.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:57 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I was hating popular things before it was cool.
posted by The Whelk at 5:58 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


I'll give you anything, everything if you want things.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:04 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Just remember: it's ok to not like things. It's ok, but don't be a dick about it.
posted by billiebee at 6:21 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


Just in case that was at all serious, note that if this article is pseudoscience it would be pseudoscience coming from a Doctor of Neuroscience and lecturer in psychiatry at Cardiff University.

If it were possible to become a Doctor of Pseudoscience, I would be willing to go back to graduate school.

There are popular things that, if I don't exactly hate, at least make me roll my eyes. Like sappy Christmas movies, say -- yuck. But it's also tiresome and rude to tell people, particularly repeatedly and at great length, that something they genuinely enjoy is crappy and sucky. So I don't do that, and I wish a lot of the authors of "your favorite thing sucks" articles would also refrain.

But I think this comes up with popular stuff so often because not only is it omnipresent, but there's a cultural presumption that of course you love this thing too! and it tends to come up a lot in conversation, in comments here, and front and central in the media. And if you, for whatever reason don't happen to like that thing, you get reminded of it all the time. Whereas not liking something obscure is easy because you only ever rarely get reminded of it.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:23 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


You may not want to favorite this post... but...


I mean, c'mon - its like a dare.
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:30 AM on December 24, 2013


Not everyone is a people person.
posted by tommasz at 6:34 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sometimes people criticize things. Sometimes they have good reasons for criticizing things, as determined by me, chief arbiter of what is and is not a good reason for criticizing a thing. Sometimes, however, their reason for criticizing the thing is Not Good Enough. Therefore, their criticism must actually be due to intrinsic rebelliousness or attention-seeking. This is much more likely than people actually believing that something has bigger problems than I think it does.

After all, how could I ever fail to see the problems with a popular thing? I work for the Guardian!
posted by ostro at 6:35 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


I think the answer is quite a bit simpler.
  1. The probability of talking about a thing increases when you see it more often.
  2. You see popular things more often.
  3. The probability of complaining about a thing increases with the intensity of dislike.
  4. I am surprised I do anything other than complain about a popular thing. Like how do I find time to cook?
posted by idiopath at 6:38 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


You ain't it, Miss Thing!
posted by droplet at 6:43 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Just in case that was at all serious, note that if this article is pseudoscience it would be pseudoscience coming from a Doctor of Neuroscience and lecturer in psychiatry at Cardiff University.

Interesting.

I guess Cardiff University must not pay too well if he has to resort to writing empty, rambling nothingness like this article for money.

It doesn't really rise to the level of pseudoscience, though. At least pseudoscience pretends to serve a purpose.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:56 AM on December 24, 2013


As a thing that gets complained about quite often (certainly at times with some justification, yes this thing sucks) I can attest that it is not only "popular" things that are the target.
posted by sammyo at 7:10 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Hating popular things I can understand, but apologizing or feeling like you have to justify your reasons for liking popular things irks me.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:13 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I like to see as large as representative a sample as possible of responses
to threads like this before I weigh in. I actually do need a weatherman
to know which way the wind blows.
posted by Chitownfats at 7:17 AM on December 24, 2013


I would criticize.unpopular things but then no one would know what I'm talking about

Yeah, word.

Criticism generally is fun and interesting. If you criticize things that are well known, you're more likely to be able to engage in a dialogue with people about those things, which is also fun and interesting.

What I find much more irritating is a recent habit I've noticed on facebook lately which is to take mainstream, poorly reviewed stuff, and talk about how wonderful you are for liking it despite the fact that snobby haters don't. When some things really are just bad.

(This happened recently on my husband's feed with the ending of Safety Not Guaranteed. Apparently we are heartless assholes for thinking it was poorly written. Oh well!)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:18 AM on December 24, 2013 [7 favorites]


Because hating.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:26 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I think writing an article on it might be a response to Tim Jonze's article the day before

"I hate the best song of 2013. I hate all the Guardian critics who voted for it in our critics list of the best songs of 2013. And I hate you, too. Because you almost certainly love Daft Punk's Get Lucky, a realisation I've come to based on the fact that every single person on earth seems to like Get Lucky apart from me.

I'm pleased I've got this fact – that I hate Get Lucky, all of my colleagues and you – off my chest. I'm also pleased to report a further fact that I've established over the last six months of listening to Get Lucky and that is this: I am definitely right, and you are definitely wrong. Daft Punk's Get Lucky is rubbish."

So catharsis.

On a more personal note, for a long time I held the position of hating the Shawshank Redemption. I held such a strong position because so many others so strongly liked it and named it the best film of all time, I felt to be heard, I needed to take an extreme counter position. I was also 20 and unable to articulate this. I now state I think its a good film but not one of the best films ever.
posted by eyeofthetiger at 7:27 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


PhoBWanKenobi: I assumed they were vaporized and instantly died, excellent super dark ending. I will not accept any other explanation.
posted by idiopath at 7:29 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


The nicest name I can come up with for this is the Nickelback effect

But Nickelback is a quantifiably terrible band, by just about any measure. I would say I'm band-waggoning here, but there are other popular bands I hate, just because they're popular, like Phish, Arcade Fire & Trans-Siberian Orchestra, largely because they're too popular and it's easy to invent reasons why I dislike them, when it becomes necessary to justify my dislike. Nickelback got "popular" because they were a product created to be popular and were hugely promoted by the industry that created them. They're popular for the same reason that Irish Spring soap or Brawny paper towels are popular.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:34 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


You know what's fun? Finding the good in the bad.

The coolest person I know was recently praising Taylor Swift without a trace of irony. "Wait! Stop! No!" said the pop-critical part of my brain. "Our in-group thinks she's kitchy. She is kitchy! Stawp!" My friend, undeterred, was irrepressibly enthusiastic about Swift's vocals. Past a certain point I couldn't deny that fezzes are cool. My heart grew three sizes that day.

Nothing gets uber-popular without there being something good about it. Sometimes it's a sleazy but successful grab at the lowest common denominator. Sometimes it's not. It might be worth a second look.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:36 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


They're popular for the same reason that...Brawny paper towels are popular.

That's a testable hypothesis. Let's tear Chad Kroeger into thin rectangular pieces and rub him on the floor. I suspect he will ooze more repulsive fluids than he absorbs.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 7:41 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


At times like this, we must take to heart the wisdom of Gregory House, MD:

Mouse Bites.
posted by Mister_A at 7:44 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


This is an interesting discussion. I always thought that public criticism, especially online, is (at least) partially about trying to directly affect the popularity of something you think people should not like.
posted by clockzero at 7:53 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


That's an interesting theory, clockzero. I think it's actually an end in itself, though; it's about feeling smug and superior to 'them'. Or even a manifestation of what H.L. Mencken calls Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
posted by Mister_A at 7:56 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


So, do you like…stuff?
posted by adamrice at 7:58 AM on December 24, 2013


Thankfully, Evanescence lived up to the definition of their name quickly enough that I didn't have to form a cogent opinion as to why they sucked, but I was gearing up to it, let me tell you what.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:59 AM on December 24, 2013


Ugh I can't STAND Katy Perry's music, so I'm going to go ahead and NOT LISTEN to it, and then sort of GRIN and BEAR IT when it can't be avoided.
posted by Mister_A at 8:05 AM on December 24, 2013


Most people do not like even extremely popular things.

Absolutely this. One percent of the American population can make you rich, and fanatics will make you richer than one time customers. In the case of Titanic, a good deal of the box office was repeat business (20%, vs 5% for a "normal" blockbuster).
posted by IndigoJones at 8:05 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming...
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:08 AM on December 24, 2013


I'm reading this as I listen to Taylor Swift on Spotify, ashamed and in private mode so as not to broadcast to all my facebook friendlies that I am a complete sucker for a pop song.

/me unchecks private mode. FUCK YOU CYNICAL BASTARD FACEBOOK FRIENDS! FEAR MY LOVE FOR TAYLOR SWIFT!
posted by Annika Cicada at 8:08 AM on December 24, 2013 [5 favorites]


God I hate swimming, why does anyone do it?
posted by Mister_A at 8:11 AM on December 24, 2013


Criticising popular things: why is it so popular?

Because those things suck, but most sheeple aren't as intelligent as I am and so they don't notice how much they suck.

Now I want a prize. But an unpopular one.
posted by jeather at 8:11 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


Am I the only person that detests the word "sheeple"?
I think I am!
posted by Chitownfats at 8:35 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


Hating on popular things is a popular thing in and of itself. This guy hates it. Discuss.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:43 AM on December 24, 2013


Hipster epigenetics. We all have 'em, 'fess up sheeple.

Altho (popular spelling) despite my continual, harsh upbraiding of the disappointing, even tragic state of modern so-called popular music with its mechanical rhythms, eternal drones and laundromat lyrics ... I must admit having added probably 1% of 1% of 1% of the views of "Gangnam Style" to Youtube. Only for the sociological insights it offers, of course. And I managed a wry smile for the "Chomsky style" variant.

Howma doon?
posted by Twang at 8:46 AM on December 24, 2013


Am I the only person that detests the word "sheeple"?

Almost certainly not. I don't think I've seen the word "sheeple" used in earnest in years.
posted by Hoopo at 8:57 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


When I criticize popular things, there is generally some element of, "OK, somebody please tell me I'm not the crazy one, right?" element to it (like, for example, at the height of Larry the Cable Guy's popularity).

On the flip side, when I am a fan of something mainstream, there are few things more tiresome than listening to some my-taste-is-far-superior-to-yours diatribe about how what I enjoy actually sucks. Just last month I put up an FPP about the TV show "Survivor". It mostly went fine, but of course had to deal with the predictable variations on, "You watch reality TV, how gauche" comments out of the gate.
posted by The Gooch at 9:01 AM on December 24, 2013


In this, as in all things, I tend to align myself with John Darnielle: "I don’t care why anybody thinks something sucks and I don’t care to spend my time trying to be clever about stuff I don’t dig."
posted by Zozo at 9:12 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


goddammit I hate articles like this.
posted by IvoShandor at 9:20 AM on December 24, 2013


Even better is when you profess your enjoyment of something unpopular, and people will actually try to tell you you don't actually like it, and are merely pretending to like it.
posted by idiopath at 9:34 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


"you don't like it, you just think you like it!"

"please explain the difference to me again."

"long high school rant about chemistry and group dynamics and quantum theory that I'm pretty sure is still going on but I wouldn't know because I left because it was boring."
posted by The Whelk at 9:43 AM on December 24, 2013


Or you express an aesthetic opinion and then they try to Logic Argument your aesthetic * opinion away! Like what do they expect to happen, you slap your heaf and go "OF COURSE, my love of campy 70s interiors shows how much I miss the concepts of an idealize life I had as a child! Thank YIU sir! Thank you Now I can go back to liking what YIU like."

* and it's never like, a food argument, based on theory and history and practice. Which are also kinda bullshit but bullshit with citations.
posted by The Whelk at 9:46 AM on December 24, 2013


It would be interesting if someone created an app called Eraser, which could miraculously eliminate any mention anywhere of something someone else thought was stupid or lame or they didn't like.

Suddenly, you fire up Eraser and everything you don't want to see is instantly eliminated from your reality. How much of the world would be left? How interesting would the world that remained be for you before you started Erasing even further?
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 9:50 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Even better is when you profess your enjoyment of something unpopular, and people will actually try to tell you you don't actually like it, and are merely pretending to like it.

Or, or, when you like something that is mainstream popular but not popular in your set of friends and you say you like it and they say that you don't really like it but are just brainwashed to like it. Baseball is my usual example. I just like liking things and don't like disliking things and try to do more of the former than the latter.
posted by jessamyn at 9:51 AM on December 24, 2013


The reason to criticize popular things as opposed to unpopular things is that popular things are all up in your grill.
posted by anazgnos at 9:51 AM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


Like a good argument. Food arguments are equally nonsensical.
posted by The Whelk at 9:52 AM on December 24, 2013


If someone says you've just been brainwashed into liking something then stand up, point, and start Invasion Of The Bidy Snatchers screeching at them.

I mean, it's what they secretly hope will happen.
posted by The Whelk at 9:53 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


Even better is when you profess your enjoyment of something unpopular, and people will actually try to tell you you don't actually like it, and are merely pretending to like it.

This stuff goes both ways and is equally tiresome to be at the receiving end of in both cases:

You like baseball? You must be brainwashed and can't possibly have come to an independent enjoyment of something so mindlessly popular, what are you, a sheeple, and where has your good taste gone?

You don't like baseball? No, really it's great, let me tell you all about why it is so great, you should really give it a chance, there's no way you can't enjoy something approved of by millions, your kneejerk dislike is so silly and uninformed and almost certainly a hipster pretension.
posted by Dip Flash at 10:01 AM on December 24, 2013


I couldn't resist; I hope you guys will like it and it will be popular so you can commence the getting up in the grill of, but either way:

MetaFilter: Bullshit with Citations

And listen, for reals, don't fucking tell me the 'w' in 'with' should be capitalized; that is not house style, jerks!
posted by Mister_A at 10:04 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Annika, do it! It's much more fun to embrace these types of things, especially when it comes to music. People do themselves a disservice when they pingeon-hole themselves into specific artists ot genres of music. I did the same as you did with the new Britney Spears album. There is useless filler on albums like this, but also some nice gems. I imagine the people who create these albums are generally very good at what they do; the labels expect them to be quarterly/yearly quarterbacks for their entire release catalog. But then you get something disappointing like Perry's PRISM, which just leaves me head scratching. Didn't thy spend a fortune producing this album? What happened? I think a big problem for these artists, and for Nickelback, is that the massive hate generated for them is developed around the popularity of probably less than 5 singles, and their reputation is thusly established. The haters never hear anything else by the artist because their hate is too strong; they refuse to even consider doing so. Nickelback could have some really great songs out there, and they could be really talented musicians, but these things will never get counted on their quality scorecard.
posted by Brocktoon at 10:07 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Gordon Neufeld, a Canadian psychologist calls this "backing into relationship." We bond over stuff we mutually hate.

The problem of course is that this is in fact no basis for a sustainable and generative relationship. Until we find something in common that we like or a common purpose we float into relationships consumed by a low tone of absence and a lack of the feeling of belonging.
posted by salishsea at 10:12 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I think hatred of popular things, and things in general, is just fine! It's reflexive hatred that is stupid. For example, I have to quash my hatred reflex when it comes to pop music. I actually like a lot of Lady Gaga, and that's okay! But it's also great to HATE Kanye and Beyonce. This hatred can also strengthen my love of things. For example, if I'm forced to listen to Bound 2 by forces outside my control, then I can take an antidote of Kowloon Walled City's The Pressure Keeps Me Alive, and my love for sludge grows.

Also, I enjoy my hatred privately. Except when it comes to Christmas music.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:50 AM on December 24, 2013


OK, granted, I'm polarizing, rebellious, and dominating... but you can ignore me at your own peril.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:01 AM on December 24, 2013


At least hating popular things is better than popularizing hateful things.
posted by islander at 11:17 AM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


I also think hating "popular things" is a result of getting bored of them. And maybe a lot of us are bored easily by certain things. I'm thinking particularly of music here. A lot of pop music follows the same formula and uses the same sounds. Like when autotune robot voice was the hot thing for a minute there. It was fucking everywhere. Maybe if it had been used sparingly I wouldn't have hated it as much as I do. But it got boring, really fast. Same for those "Hey I'm buying a house/doing renos/throwing a bunch of weird ingredients in a cupcake/buying a dress" reality shows. There' s just so many. There's only so much I can watch before it gets old and tired for me.
posted by Hoopo at 11:27 AM on December 24, 2013


My theory is in a consumerist society, such as ours, people come to view the brands they buy and things they like as wider statements about themselves. So something being popular is automatically devalued because if lots of people are buying it, your statement of Who I Am As A Person is suddenly devalued. You're no longer unique and interesting if everybody's into what you're into and one of the hilarious contradictions of our society is so many brands encourage us to be unique and interesting individuals by all buying the exact same product and trading on that cachet.

So to that end, revealing what you like is like opening yourself up to criticism. One of the things I did this year was be a lot more open and active about talking about things I enjoyed even if they are things lots of people like. And it's been a revelation the amount of sheer bile hurled my way by friends and people I know because I have the audacity to like something popular, though sometimes I'll get the "Oh I like that but it's a GUILTY PLEASURE I DON'T REALLY LIKE IT IT'S ONLY FOR IRONIC PURPOSES YEP IRONY ONLY RIGHT HERE", which is doubly hilarious, because it's constructing an elaborate facade just to allow yourself the privilege of liking something rather than just enjoying a thing.

I think it was Nathan Rabin or one of the other AV Club guys that was saying that hating Nickelback, for example, isn't actually based on their music because most people that hate Nickelback couldn't name more than three or four of their songs, it's about being part of The Cool Kids Know That Nickelback Is Totally Lame, so it's easy to slag on and you don't have to put yourself out there at all. Vocally hating everything makes it seem like you have something to add to the cultural conversation but you don't have to actually make yourself vulnerable by revealing something you like. It's having your cake and eating it, too.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 11:32 AM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


I recently had to say to my in-laws, "If you can't make fun of Guy Fieri, then life isn't worth living."
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:46 AM on December 24, 2013


I actually like a lot of Lady Gaga, and that's okay! But it's also great to HATE Kanye and Beyonce.

This brings up another facet of the thing--sometimes "hate" is attributed to you when you just think maybe the fawning praise about something is overstated. "I like this OK but maybe it's not the greatest thing ever" is not enough for some people.

Just to discuss the ones you brought up here, I've been listening to Kanye for years. I really like a lot of his work. I haven't been as big a fan of his solo stuff though, and it's for a bunch of reasons, and also his public persona bugs me. Somehow this means I am not recognizing his obvious genius and I'm just hating. Or Lady Gaga. She was a huge thing on Metafilter in recent years, although it has now tapered off considerably. To me her stuff sounds like any other pop music, but with more interesting costumes. Pop music often not being my thing, I really had no opinion of her either way (although "meat dress" is funny as hell to me). But no, it had to be subversive genius and you should quit hating, hater.

Fanatics can be really off-putting sometimes when it comes to this kind of stuff. It can back you into a corner and eventually you might even take a side on something you never would have otherwise.
posted by Hoopo at 11:50 AM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]




I get a fair number of people in the spec fic community who are varying levels of confused and/or exasperated that my work has been as successful as it has been. I deal with it in a couple of ways:

1. I recognize that anything that is popular will have detractors, so why would my work be any different;

2. In a perverse way it's nice to be notable enough to have a loud detractor class;

3. The people who do like my work seem undeterred by the people who don't like it, and that, again, is a fairly universal aspect of popular work;

4. A (small) number of the people I know who are most annoyed by the success of my work I am delighted to annoy, because I think they're assholes and deserve to be afflicted by my successes, especially when it requires no additional effort by me.

There are a number of popular things I don't like and I'm happy to gripe about them, but I've long ago stopped bothering to judge people for the ultimately inconsequential entertainments they enjoy (which are most of them, including my own). Part of this is because I have knowledge from the other side of equation (see above), but most of it really is the knowledge that life is too short to spend much of it shitting on people who like things you don't, plus the fact that I have enough largely indefensible popular enthusiasms myself that I don't need to call someone a kettle.

Anyway, here's the deal: Is that Nickelback fan a decent human being? Then good for them. Is that My Bloody Valentine fan a complete shitbag? Fuck 'em.
posted by jscalzi at 11:59 AM on December 24, 2013 [7 favorites]


I was hating popular things before it was cool.

I was hating popular things before I was cool.
posted by philip-random at 12:15 PM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


I was hating popular things back when I couldn't avoid them, but that's so Last Century TM.

Now, hell, I don't think I've ever heard Taylor Swift, maybe a few seconds of Lady Gaga, I think I heard a Ke$ha song in a bar one time but that might have been somebody else.

What I like is on here when everybody, or somebodies, get to hatin', or likin', some crappy thing, is when it gets 'yes and'-ed. Yes, if you like (this anodyne, popular example of an actually vibrant artistic tendency) you might also like (a long list of great things you've never even heard of). I get a lot of good recommendations from that. And it's all thanks to popularity-hate!
posted by hap_hazard at 12:29 PM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


Sometimes people have interesting reasons for liking or disliking things. And sometimes they don't.
posted by clockzero at 12:35 PM on December 24, 2013 [3 favorites]


I like the camel! The camel is so happy it's Wednesday!

I don't hate the camel, I'm just sick of my coworkers parroting the camel every Wednesday.
posted by Fleebnork at 1:32 PM on December 24, 2013


One of the really surprising things you learn as you leave high school behind is that there is simply no reliable correlation, at all, between "likes artistic products I think are cool" and "is a good/interesting/intelligent/lovable/worthy person." There are wonderful people out there--including, ironically, many of the people you worship as producers of cool music, art, films etc.--whose tastes are just radically incompatible with your own. So the inference everyone wants to draw in high school, from aesthetic taste to personal moral worth, just doesn't hold up.

Of course, another surprising thing you learn as you leave high school behind is that a lot of people refuse to accept this lesson and cling to the belief that if you like cultural product A you are a Bad Person, while if you like cultural product B you are a Good Person.
posted by yoink at 1:55 PM on December 24, 2013 [4 favorites]


No, but Bob Dylan really does suck.
posted by Decani at 3:05 PM on December 24, 2013 [2 favorites]


No, but Bob Dylan really does suck.

I suspect this is just a hallucination caused by the trauma of having seen this in your formative years.

WARNING: link is to Hall + Oates Christmas song
posted by philip-random at 3:24 PM on December 24, 2013


I don't hate this article because it's popular. I hate it because it's crap.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:46 PM on December 24, 2013


But Nickelback is a quantifiably terrible band, by just about any measure

Yes, because when I think about people's likes and dislikes, I think about rational objective quantification.

There are lots of bands for whom the reaction to being terrible, is that nobody knows who they are.
posted by effugas at 3:59 PM on December 24, 2013 [1 favorite]


It is a rather thin thesis to hang one's hat on. I get that culture is culture, and just because something is all the rage doesn't mean it is terrible.

But sometimes things are popular for some pretty bad reasons, and I expect smart people will continue to point this out.

Criticism is a fine thing. That's not to say that simply loving or hating something is criticism.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:13 PM on December 24, 2013


Why Wasn't I Consulted?!"
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:30 AM on December 25, 2013


It is fitting that, in this thread, I can announce that JUSTIN BIEBER IS RETIRING FROM MUSIC.
posted by Mezentian at 8:15 AM on December 25, 2013


No, but Bob Dylan really does suck.

You can think whatever you want, obviously, but this sentiment has about as much aesthetic wisdom as a giggle-shrouded armpit fart. Way to go, drunkle grandpa.
posted by clockzero at 10:31 AM on December 25, 2013 [4 favorites]


Whether you personally like or dislike something is the least interesting thing you could possibly say about whatever it is. Strive to say something else.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 10:57 PM on December 25, 2013 [1 favorite]


According to one of the other long-lived threads that's also been coasting along through this birthday of Our Lord Christ Our Savior, you can talk about your penis instead. Or even the penises of ducks.
posted by XMLicious at 11:19 PM on December 25, 2013


Because I am much smarter/cooler/savvier than you. Next question.
posted by nowhere man at 2:17 PM on December 26, 2013


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