Join 3,433 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


It's nice to have an old friend for dinner.
February 28, 2014 1:52 PM   Subscribe

Tonight at 10/9c! The critically-acclaimed, criminally-underviewed NBC thriller Hannibal returns for a second season. There will no doubt be copious live-tweeting (not least from the showrunner himself) and much flailing from the intelligent, dedicated, and hilarious fanbase.

Did you miss Season One? If you did, there are excellent recaps, and indeed, full scripts available online. (Previously, Previouslier, Even More Previouslier, Previousliest.)
posted by dogheart (953 comments total) 30 users marked this as a favorite

 
#sevenseasonsandacookbook
posted by macadamiaranch at 2:00 PM on February 28 [25 favorites]


If you happen to have Amazon Prime, the entire first season is available there too.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:07 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Everyone check out this tumblr (Bone areas of my skull). She's an English teacher who's been showing her teenage class Hannibal as a way to break down narrative. Their reactions and comments are WONDERFUL
posted by The Whelk at 2:09 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]


I may have dressed up just for this premiere - Get that look!
posted by The Whelk at 2:10 PM on February 28 [7 favorites]


No, no, no! Everyone should check out Problems From Every Day Life (AKA, Should I Eat This?), The Whelk and tel3path's humorous imagining of Hannibal's cast as AskMe users.
posted by carsonb at 2:11 PM on February 28 [5 favorites]


I was hoping there'd be a thread for this. I didn't think I could be any more excited for tonight and then the flood of super positive reviews hit and....

MY BODY IS READY (to be made into something delicious and much prettier than I actually am).
posted by sparkletone at 2:19 PM on February 28


This Is Just To Say

I have eaten
you
because you were
rude
posted by The Riker Who Mounts the World at 2:32 PM on February 28 [8 favorites]


Oh I am so excite!
I assume this thread will be the official meeting place tonight?
Does anyone have suggestions for drink pairings for this evenings episode?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 2:40 PM on February 28


Bitter tears!
posted by The Whelk at 2:51 PM on February 28


Ps. We've all seen Cleolinda Jones My Little Ravenstag right?
posted by The Whelk at 2:54 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


Or maybe just ears.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:54 PM on February 28


OF CORN YOU MONSTERS.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:57 PM on February 28


Their reactions and comments are WONDERFUL

I'd seen a few of this person's metas making the rounds and I think the first couple teaching posts but nothing in a long time and I for some stupid reason never hit the follow button. Thanks for the reminder!

To help others find those posts specifically: this is their specific tag for the teaching posts.
posted by sparkletone at 2:57 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


My wife loves the show but I'd been boxing it off as not for me sight unseen (Despite really loving Bryan Fuller's previous works such as Pushing Daisies and Dead Like Me)

Then I saw that the episode titles of the first season were all named after courses of a meal.

Fuller, you win.
posted by JauntyFedora at 2:58 PM on February 28


Then I saw that the episode titles of the first season were all named after courses of a meal.

French cuisine for the first, Japanese for the second!
posted by sparkletone at 3:09 PM on February 28


Oh you guys are going to make it really hard for me to time-shift this show without spoilers, aren't you?

(I'm sorreeee! I don't get NBC on my TV antenna!)
posted by muddgirl at 3:19 PM on February 28


Great, now I need to remove this post from my Recent Activity.
posted by muddgirl at 3:19 PM on February 28


I assume we're all cooking a meal for this?

I'm making veal.
posted by The Whelk at 3:26 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


I assume we're all cooking a meal for this?

I'm too unskilled to do something properly fancy enough for this show. So delivery it will be. Perhaps sushi? Haven't decided yet.

I'm making veal.

You monster!
posted by sparkletone at 3:34 PM on February 28


I'm adapting the recipie from Janice Poon's blog about making the dishes for the show....

With you know ...proper substitutions.
posted by The Whelk at 3:37 PM on February 28


Stallion heart tartare with gagh relish.
posted by The Riker Who Mounts the World at 3:38 PM on February 28


I assume we're all cooking a meal for this?

Well I am NOW!
I've got a lamb-chop in my fridge. Maybe on couscous with asparagus on the side? And... a Chianti?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 3:41 PM on February 28


Food, hell. I almost barfed from nerves just making this post. I have cheese and wine and abject terror. If I can keep those down, I'll be a happy camper.


seriously my internet social anxiety, you would not believe. nor would you believe the amount of fanfiction that will never see the light of day that i have on my hard drive. hoo boy.
posted by dogheart at 3:41 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Nooo, a big Amarone.
posted by dogheart at 3:43 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


I am upset I didn't thaw out my livers in time for this.

Lamb chop and couscous sounds delish, plus you can crush roasted nuts into the couscous or add dried fruit for a sweet compliment to the lamb.
posted by The Whelk at 3:47 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


And I recommend roasting the asparagus, the slight char will go well with the crust created on the chop.

And they say TV doesn't make us better people.
posted by The Whelk at 3:49 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


And they say TV doesn't make us better people.

For dinner.
posted by The Riker Who Mounts the World at 3:54 PM on February 28


Yay! I just want to say that the NBCHannibal tumblr account is adorable. And the cast/crew have been really awesome about how the fandom for their serious, artistic, surreal show is kind of... goofy. In a wonderful way.

Also, Hugh Dancy did an AMA earlier today.
posted by lovecrafty at 4:14 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Also, Mads Mikkelsen did a Twitter Q&A

...and he knows about Tumblr now.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:35 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Get a nice sear on that ...

Veal.

posted by The Whelk at 4:57 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


Decided to get a pizza from my favorite deep dish place. It is not Hannibal's kind of decadent exactly, but it is a kind of decadent.

The sausage on it? People. The mushrooms, probably people too.
posted by sparkletone at 5:13 PM on February 28


the tomatoes poached in separated blood?

well.
posted by The Whelk at 5:20 PM on February 28


Cheese from the neck and chest of a 3,600 year old mummy
posted by maggieb at 5:26 PM on February 28


Searched for it on Netflix and discovered there's a series titled Hannibal Montana.
posted by Pudhoho at 6:24 PM on February 28


The wine and cigarettes are being prepared.
posted by The Whelk at 6:35 PM on February 28


( dinner was procustto wrapped veal with fig reduction, and anticipation )
posted by The Whelk at 6:39 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


This is like waiting for Christmas morning, but with stylish suits and cannibalism.
posted by The Whelk at 6:52 PM on February 28


The mushrooms, probably people too.

Grown on people.
posted by localroger at 6:53 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


This is a courtesy call, are you listening very carefully?

They know.
posted by macadamiaranch at 6:53 PM on February 28


I'm so sorry, Abigail. I'm so sorry I could not protect you.
posted by localroger at 6:55 PM on February 28


Who wouldn't want two of me?
posted by The Whelk at 6:59 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


I am ready, and I am so not ready.
posted by athenasbanquet at 7:01 PM on February 28


I need to see the SFX workthrough for that scene cause how are actors not dead?
posted by The Whelk at 7:12 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


(Also there's some new thing where tweets count for ratings, if you're the tweeting type, which I'm not, but there you go.)
posted by macadamiaranch at 7:14 PM on February 28


The ballad of will and Hannibal
posted by The Whelk at 7:24 PM on February 28


I feel like I'm watching really excellent fanfic which is, in a way, what this show is.
posted by The Whelk at 7:42 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


You might want to not eat those pomegranate seeds will
posted by The Whelk at 7:45 PM on February 28


OH GOD WILL IS QUOTING HANNIBAL DIRECTLY FROM RED DRAGON
posted by The Whelk at 7:47 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


OH MY GOD. THE SOUNDS PLAYING DURING A CERTAIN FLASHBACK. OH GOD.

(This is, overall, soooo good. My show is back and it is back in style and yay but also OH NO.)
posted by sparkletone at 7:51 PM on February 28


You know how they start the movie with something that happens 15 minutes before the end and it says 6 DAYS EARLIER then gets into the actual movie and you are so GRAR?

They started the season with the LAST SCENE OF THE SEASON and the thing says 12 WEEKS PREVIOUSLY which is THE WHOLE SEASON and holy fuck it just works.
posted by localroger at 8:03 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


I feel like I need a cigarette
posted by The Whelk at 8:04 PM on February 28


They started the season with the LAST SCENE OF THE SEASON and the thing says 12 WEEKS PREVIOUSLY which is THE WHOLE SEASON and holy fuck it just works

I missed the first ten minutes of the episode, and was wondering if I missed anything. The rest of the episode was spectacular, so I'm pumped for the rewatch.
posted by Harpocrates at 8:10 PM on February 28


You know how they start the movie with something that happens 15 minutes before the end and it says 6 DAYS EARLIER then gets into the actual movie and you are so GRAR?

When this is done by hacks, the foreknowledge is just there to get you to sit through a bunch of boring crap before getting to the good bit. But this show isn't written by hacks. Those two-minutes, aside from being incredible-by-tv-standards for a fight scene in terms of staging, aren't there to get us to sit through a bunch of busy work. We have all this fall out of the end of last season to deal with and so on.

The show is saying loud and clear that this won't be 13 more hours spent in a holding pattern where the FBI look increasingly implausibly stupid. They're going to get there, soon, and when they do shit will get real.

Sepinwall seems to agree. They're choosing this sort of structure for the right reasons rather than the wrong ones.
posted by sparkletone at 8:16 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


I missed the first ten minutes of the episode, and was wondering if I missed anything. The rest of the episode was spectacular, so I'm pumped for the rewatch.

Haha. Oh, man. Uh, yeah. You definitely missed something.
posted by sparkletone at 8:17 PM on February 28


I hope somewhere in the gag reel for this season is a recreation of this image set.
posted by sparkletone at 8:19 PM on February 28


Also the structure works cause it's not a Whodonit, we all know more or less what's going to happen, putting that upfront is a great way to make us focus on the more important How/Whydunit and that characters, cause as said before, it lays it "Okay, you know what's gonna happen, we know what's gonna happen, lets play the cards we all know so I can surprise you the cards you don't even know I'm holding."

also whoa the horror-movie set-ups and speed was amped up. Season one Episode one was a leisurely walk in a garden full of daffodils compared to this. *whew*.
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


Jesus that last shot.

The whole thing broke me. I feel like I need to see it three more times to process what the shit just happened. The Thomas Harris callbacks! Hannibal perving on Will! WINSTON. Alana being the Best Human!

(And more bourbon. I definitely need more bourbon.)
posted by dogheart at 8:51 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


please don't let the bourbon be people
posted by The Whelk at 8:52 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


God I hope not. Or my much more fashionable best buddy has deceived me.


DDDD:
posted by dogheart at 8:59 PM on February 28


The bourbon is distilled from people. Yes, that's possible.
posted by localroger at 8:59 PM on February 28


it's okay he just wanted to make you vampirically realize that you're JUST ALIKE.

"friendship often entails the blurring of individual thought."

"... no it doesn't."

"It can-"

"Have you EVER had a friend?"

*Sad Cannibal noises*

I also like all of our very high-minded fan speculation is turning out true. Good on us.
posted by The Whelk at 9:02 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


The whole thing broke me.

You know, awful as it sounds, to me this is the highest best accolade for a work of art. It broke me. It forced me to see the world differently than I did before. As an artist putting chisel to marble, paint to canvas, lips to saxophone, fingers to typewriter, is that not what we want to do to you? To make you feel what you cannot make yourself feel for yourself?

Hannibal himself, of course, being a sociopath cannot feel. But we feel for him vicariously.
posted by localroger at 9:03 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


He's the saddest little mass murderer.

*All By Myself plays in the background*
posted by The Whelk at 9:04 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


I liked Hannibal 's face when looking at the bodies at the crime scene "Frown, this is upsetting, Will would frown, frown harder!"
posted by The Whelk at 9:11 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


What was Chilton's meal? As far as I could tell it was just smoked salt. Isn't that bad for a Kidney patient?

Also his whole still smug attitude. God he's unctuous, is there a penknife nearby?
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on February 28


also "Why do you think he's your friend?"

*shivers*
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on February 28


What was Chilton's meal? As far as I could tell it was just smoked salt.

Dr. Poopbag had "salted and ash-baked celeriac" which I'd never heard of before googling the spelling tonight.
posted by sparkletone at 9:26 PM on February 28


It's too bad Will's parents won't accept his friendship with Hannibal, but I hope that won't get in the way of catching that scalp-hunting serial killer.
posted by homunculus at 9:27 PM on February 28


So a bunch of salted celery root?

how ...tasty.
posted by The Whelk at 9:27 PM on February 28


Oh wait, that's Grimm. Nevermind.
posted by homunculus at 9:28 PM on February 28


OMG. Usually AV Club waits until the season's complete before (possibly) doing one of their "walk through" features. Hannibal S2 is getting a weekly one though. WOOOO, though that's tempered slightly as Fuller will be limited in what he can say about how things fit together and stuff without giving too much away about what's to come.
posted by sparkletone at 10:04 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


he is the world's biggest, bestest fanboy
posted by The Whelk at 10:05 PM on February 28


"I can’t wait for you to see episode five!" oh you ...bastard
posted by The Whelk at 10:16 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


"I can’t wait for you to see episode five!" oh you ...bastard

I'll be deliberately vague here but... Putting this together with some moderately spoilery things he said on the most recent Nerdist Writers Panel... Oh god, we are none of us ready.
posted by sparkletone at 10:19 PM on February 28


i'm going to my puppy palace
posted by The Whelk at 10:20 PM on February 28


@BryanFuller: ALANA BLOOM'S INKY BLACK APPEARANCE IS BASED ON THE IMPRESSION SHE WOULD LEAVE ON THE BACK OF WILL'S EYELIDS AFTER HE'S BEEN STARING AT HER.

you ...fucker.

I'm not even going into the horrible beauty and symbolism of that still-alive buffet/table thing.

That's some Golden Bough shit.
posted by The Whelk at 10:43 PM on February 28 [2 favorites]


What the heck went on between Bedelia and Hannibal!??? SHE BELIEVES WILL.

Also, I counted three food-related advertisers. Major props.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:08 PM on February 28


Bedelia was attacked by a patient after she requested Hannibal see another analyst. Hannibal prevented this attack by making the attacker swallow his own tongue. Since then Bedelia has retired and Hannibal remains her only patient. It's strongly implied she's aware of what he is but is kept alive by his dependance on her as a soundingboard and mirror. (It is strongly implied as well that this current version of Hannibal has copied himself on her, they're set up to be mirror-images of each other.)

Their relationship, as it exists, is a very unstable balance of "I know you know I know that you don't think I know." Bedelia was Hannibal's number one favorite captive toy before Will came along, and I think she's got some idea what that does to someone and why she has to stop him.
posted by The Whelk at 11:16 PM on February 28 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I remember the patient attack, but I got the feeling it was much more than that. I mean, she wouldn't have to "lie for him" if it was framed in a self-defense/'I saw him attacking her and went to her aid' kind of a way.

Last season when Hannibal brought 'veal' over, I wondered if she knew. But I think TPTB said she didn't? Or am I misremembering?

Either he just set her up to have to lie for him and thus gain control over her, like he did with Abigail Hobbs, or there's much more going on with her.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:25 PM on February 28


I think the "lie for him" lines in both seasons are in reference to what Hannibal actually did to the attacker (and possibly his involvement in the attack). In my head a much younger Hannibal revealed his cannibalistic desires to Bedelia and she reacted...badly. So he designed a way to keep her forever in his cage - up until the veal, she could've said she was not really involved, a remote observer "sometimes all we can do is watch."

The "veal" eating was supposed to cement her loyalty but it didn't work, Bedelia is actually acting like his conscious now, poking and prodding him, now that she knows what he is for real and also that he's doing what he did her to another person.

I think once she ate that veal, Bedelia figured she had nothing to lose.
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 PM on February 28 [1 favorite]


That was really good. I wasn't entirely sure this was going to work, with Will imprisoned and Hannibal working with the FBI, but they did it.

I'm going to make a point of savoring these two weeks while Hannibal overlaps with True Detective.
posted by homunculus at 11:51 PM on February 28


i always feel the need to point out when someone is really clever
posted by The Whelk at 11:57 PM on February 28


while Hannibal overlaps with True Detective.

soo many pronounced cheekbones it's like the BBC in here
posted by The Whelk at 11:59 PM on February 28 [3 favorites]


That was awesome and beautiful.

They really had the Airbrush Filter turned up to 11 in the Bedelia scenes. For thematic reasons I'm sure. But it still looked exactly like middle-seasons Scully with all that smoothing.
posted by Justinian at 12:34 AM on March 1 [2 favorites]


Also Hannibal was filmed with all that in-fill shadow and murky but Bedelia was all catching the sun and well-it.
posted by The Whelk at 12:43 AM on March 1


The podcast sparkletone mentioned above is very entertaining when you have an hour and a half to kill.

Nerdist Writers Panel with Bryan Fuller
posted by maggieb at 12:56 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]


And hey, Sundance is playing Manhunter. Perfect.

In a gadda da vida, honey...
posted by homunculus at 1:09 AM on March 1


I've been sulking all day thinking I'd have to wait until Sunday night to watch, since I work Friday and Saturday nights and I wanted to watch with a nice bottle of wine. But then I convinced myself that after work, in the cold quiet hour before dawn, would still be appropriate.

(No wine, but thanks to the chile relleno thread I brought out a bit of goat cheese with Hatch chiles.)

Here we go!
posted by rewil at 4:37 AM on March 1


Hannibal's mention of his aunt is a Hannibal Rising reference.
posted by crossoverman at 5:01 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I thought the filter on Bedelia was weird and unnecessary. She's Gillian Anderson! She's fucking gorgeous! And she does these tiny tiny tiny amazing shifts in expression that should be seen as clearly as possible! You don't need to turn up Gaussian Blur up to 50 for us to be captivated.

That, and the Law-and-Order-esque "Ey, guy, them's probably just some dead beavers, soitenly not human bodies, I'll just go poke 'em a little and- WHAT OH MY GOD" were the only real disappointments I had in what was otherwise a really really delightful episode.

We made a nice spread that included homemade loukaniko sausages, which was my first time making sausage from scratch! (I also wore a very wide full windsor knot for the occasion)
posted by Greg Nog at 6:52 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]


It's the show you get dressed up for!
posted by The Whelk at 8:09 AM on March 1


The podcast sparkletone mentioned above is very entertaining when you have an hour and a half to kill.

It is a lovely interview as is usually the case with Fuller but... I do want to emphasize that this is not a spoiler-free discussion of the show. I'd say they're moderate spoilers. He doesn't say "CHARACTER X DIES IN EPISODE Y IN MANNER Z" but ... there are a couple of things I had second thoughts about knowing in terms of the shape of things to come.

I ended up being fine with it but others might not be, hence my vagueness about exactly what he says above. People that want to feel the next month or so of episodes without much foreknowledge... Bookmark this for later and wait.
posted by sparkletone at 8:48 AM on March 1


Public Service Announcement: I received my J. Peterman Catalog today and lo and behold there is a kicky faux wrap dress perfect for Alana Bloom cosplay.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:08 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]


It's the perfect thing to write a damning report about your biss to!
posted by The Whelk at 5:17 PM on March 1


Or, you know, hypnotizing your favorite alleged intelligent psychopath with whom you are in love.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:21 PM on March 1


"this dress will really help me become an inky wraith of emotions for someone wrongfully accused!"
posted by The Whelk at 5:22 PM on March 1 [2 favorites]


So according to her S2E1 post on Feeding Hannibal, up next week is osso buco.
So silence of the calves, then.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:36 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]


OH GOD I JUST REALIZED ALANA'S SILVER METRONOME IS LIKE WILL'S GOLDEN PENDULUM.
posted by The Whelk at 8:25 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]


The fact that Hannibal thinks Will is his friend is so cute and poignant. When Belinda said they weren't friends, the sad look on his face made me say, "Awwwwww."
posted by mokin at 9:13 PM on March 1


is this bitch fucking serious
posted by homunculus at 9:26 PM on March 1 [1 favorite]


Hannibal: I know there are problems but we can get through them

Will: I am in jail. You put me in JAIL. I AM IN JAIL BECAUSE OF YOU.

Hannibal: hush now, we are stronger than this

Will: I AM IN JAIL BECAUSE OF YOU.

Hannibal: If you feel this is what you have to say-

Will: I AM GOING TO DESTROY YOU-

Hannibal: You're so cute when you're angry.
posted by The Whelk at 9:41 PM on March 1 [3 favorites]


Ratings were up compared to the season 1 finale.
posted by sparkletone at 11:12 AM on March 2 [1 favorite]


I love that Hannibal does the "pretend to pass out while being choked" trick. I think about that in every choking/drowning scene ever - you know, how long do i struggle before I pretend to give in, etc. "Let's do a reach towards the throat with my right arm, extend the left arm blindly forward, grasping, a couple of kicks, and ... go limp."

Of course, it's more comical when I picture myself doing it than the implementation here.
posted by neuromodulator at 12:17 PM on March 2 [2 favorites]


My Hannibaly ties arrived!
posted by The Whelk at 4:49 PM on March 3


The existence of fresh Hannibal crack, with weeks more to come fills me with such glee[1].

[1] - The glee is not people. I'm a little worried about the "chicken" sausages in this pasta I just made though.
posted by sparkletone at 5:41 PM on March 3


The return of Hannibal Lecter: Mikkelsen's civilized serial killer returns in "Kaiseki," the eye-opening premiere to season two of Hannibal. Theresa DeLucci takes a bite out of the show's mad metaphors.
posted by homunculus at 12:46 PM on March 4


Bowie better say yes or Count Robert will only ever be known as NOT DAVID BOWIE.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:23 PM on March 4


BRING ME BOWIE
posted by The Whelk at 3:35 PM on March 4


Bryan fuller just favorited me on twitter so I'm going to die now may my body make a beautiful entree.
posted by The Whelk at 4:56 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]


You should demand to be served to David Bowie on condition he does the show. Make your sacrifice mean something.
posted by homunculus at 5:11 PM on March 4


Just a severed hand with a note "ASIDE FROM THE CORPERATE RUN IN THE 80s AND SOME OF THE ELECTRONICA OF THE 90s I'VE ALWAYS ADMIRED AND RESPECTED THE SCOPE OF YOUR WORK, SIR."
posted by The Whelk at 5:13 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


So Fuller and others have hinted that there's going to be some (unexpected) romance this season... That is maybe further confirmed by this interview with the production designer that mentions Hannibal's bedroom.

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO," is all I have to say to that.
posted by sparkletone at 5:15 PM on March 4


Not to worry I'm sure it'll result in horrible things happening to everyone.
posted by The Whelk at 5:21 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]


That, and I also am somewhat concerned about what showing Hannibal in his bedroom will do to my tumblr dashboard for a while after the episode(s) air...
posted by sparkletone at 5:24 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


Of course we actually know he sleeps in a coffin -filled crypt deep under the earth.
posted by The Whelk at 5:27 PM on March 4



*distant frenzied screaming*
posted by dogheart at 5:39 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


Sooooo is NBC just messing with me or is there a good reason a show premieres on a Tuesday and then has every subsequent episode on a Friday?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:34 PM on March 4


Oh. Neither. I just can't keep track of days of the week.

(Hannibal's going to put my name in his recipe rolodex now, isn't he?)
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:48 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


Draw me a clock
posted by The Whelk at 6:51 PM on March 4 [2 favorites]


Hannibal only sleeps standing up, so as not to wrinkle his mulberry silk jam jams.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:53 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


He can sleep with his eyes open. He gets regular naps when his patients come round.
posted by The Whelk at 7:20 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


Ways to Annoy Hannibal #32

ourlordhannibal:

Will: *puts business cards of people Hannibal’s already eaten back in his Rolodex*

posted by The Whelk at 9:26 PM on March 4 [1 favorite]


episode 1 a summary
posted by The Whelk at 9:30 PM on March 4


Maybe this wasn't a good idea

LOL
posted by crossoverman at 2:52 AM on March 5


Somehow hadn't seen this Rolling Stone thing on Mads yet before. Will surely be of interest to some of you.
posted by sparkletone at 2:16 PM on March 5


I've decided dressing like a Hannibal character is all I want to do
posted by The Whelk at 4:33 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]


*puts hand over heart and starts singing the Jurassic Park theme while a tear falls from one eye*

(it's a set photo, so mild spoilers, for those who care)
posted by sparkletone at 8:31 PM on March 5


public announcement for tel3path to watch the damn episode so we can talk about it forever
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 PM on March 5 [2 favorites]


Prefacing this one with: I feel like the implied spoiler here is pretty major... But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

BTW, that all caps bit should be understood to be kind of high pitched and sound like a very silly, elongated "new."
posted by sparkletone at 9:22 PM on March 5


sparkletone, I'm dumb. How is that a spoiler? (I mean, rot13 or memail me here, but other than AHAHA AWESOME I'm not getting a lot out of that.)
posted by dogheart at 10:50 PM on March 5


it's not a direct spoiler, it's just Fuller FUCKING WITH US.
posted by The Whelk at 11:09 PM on March 5


...I'm probably trying to read too much into it. In my defense, the show does reward that kind of thing.
posted by dogheart at 11:12 PM on March 5


I can think of a few things if we're gunning for MAXIMUM ALLOWED ALANA SADNESS
posted by The Whelk at 11:20 PM on March 5 [1 favorite]


Oh, hell, I thought that was the one with the dinosaurs. NEVER MIND CARRY ON.
posted by dogheart at 11:36 PM on March 5


Oh, hell, I thought that was the one with the dinosaurs. NEVER MIND CARRY ON.

Y... Yeah. The dinosaur one is minor because it's just "oh, Hannibal's going to a cool museum."

But if that other tweet was all he'd said, I'd consider the confirmation of "Alana definitely appears (at least in flashback/hallucination) in 211" to be relatively minor. But you put this together with some other things that've been said about the season. Particularly that ... poisonous news about character deaths from the nerdist podcast and well: Nooooooooooooo.

I don't think he's crossed any lines about big spoilers... But at the same time, when taken all in, I'm running out of people outside of Hannibal, Will and Jack that I feel are at least safe from death and I AM NOT OKAY WITH THAT. Even before you go straight to "who lives and who dies" to just "how can we completely break Alana the worst..."

noooooooooooo. just. noooooooooooooo.
posted by sparkletone at 12:51 AM on March 6


I'm running out of people outside of Hannibal, Will and Jack that I feel are at least safe from death

Hmm... Chilton and Freddie Lounds should be safe (for this season).
posted by lovecrafty at 1:00 AM on March 6


Since the Red Wedding, nobody on any TV show will ever be safe again for me.
posted by Pendragon at 3:49 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]


As long as nothing happens to Winston, I'm all good.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:37 AM on March 6


Hmm... Chilton and Freddie Lounds should be safe (for this season).

Heh. True. I wish those two were in more danger though, really.

Since the Red Wedding, nobody on any TV show will ever be safe again for me.

I read the first three of those books when they were new, so that for me is, like, high school stuff. It's been fun watching it traumatize everyone anew, but it hasn't affected how I think about other shows or anything. This show was already going to be a blood bath at some point before Hannibal gets caught.

As long as nothing happens to Winston, I'm all good.

Fuller's clearly a sick fuck on many levels, but there's no way Will's dogs will be anything but fine as long as he's in charge.
posted by sparkletone at 11:19 AM on March 6


I wish those two were in more danger though, really.

This show is really the only time I've ever felt sorry for Chilton. But that'll happen when someone removes your intestines and ask you to hold them.

Fuller's clearly a sick fuck on many levels, but there's no way Will's dogs will be anything but fine as long as he's in charge.


As he said on the Nerdist podcast, he'd rather eat human than dog. He's got a pro-dog agenda.
posted by crossoverman at 6:36 PM on March 6


As he said on the Nerdist podcast, he'd rather eat human than dog. He's got a pro-dog agenda.

(Possible S2 death tableaux spoiler... It's not clear if this one is actually happening. No character spoilers.)

Bryan Fuller, deity of choice bless him, is a sick fuck.
posted by sparkletone at 7:06 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]


But the dogs are okay right?
posted by The Whelk at 7:15 PM on March 6


The dogs are gonna be alright.

The humans, not so much.
posted by localroger at 7:47 PM on March 6


i feel the need to put this in all hannibal threads
posted by The Whelk at 11:17 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]


also this cause it's brilliant
posted by The Whelk at 11:20 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]


also, from the nerdist podcast, Fuller saying he's interested in how "straight guys seduce each other" and that it's good that Will and Hannibal aren't romantic cause "they do such fucked up shit to each other."
posted by The Whelk at 12:19 AM on March 7


Okay, first of all, by the looks of that injury Jack has only a few seconds left to live. Pending further information, that's one down. Something really improbably would have to happen to save him from that one.

Bedelia in solid black? You *never* do that onscreen unless there's a reason. I'm mobile right now, can anyone tell me if Hannibal's outfit could be construed as white right now in chess terms because I think she is in check.

She isn't talking in half-truths or riddles but being very direct (black and white, if you will). So is hannibal, he's straight up boastful about the fact that he's doing far worse stuff than she's realized and there's not a thing she can do about it (so he thinks).

What's the deal with the airbrush filtering, i don't get it. Why would they suggest that GA needs it. I would hope that Fannibals, at least, could stand the sight of a beloved actress's unretouched face augmented only with state-of-the-art makeup and lighting, if not, what are we?

Beverly is the most impressive person in this episode from my point of view. Alana's automatism defense really seems like rationalizing, not that it couldn't be partly to mostly true, but she's kidding herself that any such defense could get him out. Not a criticism, god bless her for being committed to Will beyond all reason. But Beverly outdoes her here. Brcause she is the measure of whether there's a reasonable case against Will or not, and she says it left her no room for doubt so she has no alternative but to think of Will as a murderer. She is the one person who smacks down Hannibal "you were supposed to protect him" (to which he replies that as a psychiatrist he has plausible deniability, neener) and she counterbalances her criticism with another fact, which is that nobody else spotted it either.

She seems to be making a statement of blunt fact but when you look closrr, she's saying "no matter how i personally think or feel about the guy, the evidence says this so that's what i have to believe." It's a statement of emotional investment framed as the opposite.

Then she goes to see will, on the face of it to use him to solve a case again. But she clearly states that she's there on her own initiative and against her better judgement. She doesn't try to rationalize it, in fact says she's compartmentalizing, but she's the only one who hasn't tried to rationalize up a story in will's defense (alana's automatism defensr is evidence-based i don't want to paint the wrong picture here, but her arguments for believing in both will's AND Hannibal's innocence are basically emotional and may not hold up to that much scrutiny).

Will is crestfallen that she hasn't come to him for personal reasons, but again if you look closely, she has. The facts seem to be telling her she can't trust him for anything, but her intuition is telling her that he is someone who wants to save lives, whatever *else* might also be true about him.

Basically i think Beverly is the one who's on top of things here when it comes to reconciling cleqr thinking and emotion. She's an example to us all, so far.

AW POOR HANNI WITH "ALL BY MYSELF" PLAYING IN THE BACKGROUND. when I was three or perhaps even slightly younger, i finally resigned myself to the fact that, if i ripped all the pages out of my books, I wouldn't be able to read them again, and if I went back to a book i knew i'd ripped up, there was no point hoping against hope that the pages would still be there to read. I couldn't have my books and rip 'em up too. MAYBE AS A CANNIBAL IN YOUR UPPER FORTIES, HANNIBAL, IT'S TIME YOU LEARN THIS LESSON FOR YOURSELF.
posted by tel3path at 12:58 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Also this is well before the trend of "let's go talk to this serial killer behind bars and get his expert opinion. I'm sure he won't misuse the opportunity to fuck with us seven ways to Sunday."

She thinks Will can be trusted to give an opinion that's worth something. That says an awful lot and it leaves me with a faith in Bev that I can't have in Alana. Of course Bev wouldn't have taken on seven dogs, so i again don't want to paint the wrong picture here.

I feel very bad for Jack. Everyone blaming him for everything. Again, given everyone's knowledge state, it is his fault. And he shouldn't have sent will out into the field (as much - i do believe will's deepest desire was to return tot he field) but not because he was "unstable," because Jack went the wrong way about it and mishandled it totally.

And hannibal saying "Will was never my patient" doubling for "it's not my fault" and "i still live in hope that he will accept my hand in marriage". You role-clashing sleaze, Hannibal.

AND ZOMG THE ELDRITCH HORROR DINNER TABLE.
posted by tel3path at 1:10 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Plus

Mikkelsen is supposed to be the king of microexpressions but I'm pretty sue i caught a microexpression of revulsion from bev while she was talking to hannibal
posted by tel3path at 2:01 AM on March 7


...how did Jack come over all suspicious in 12 weeks' time?

What happened there?

Because if he was double-wrong about Will, then he's double-guilty. He should be motivated to disbelieve in Hannibal's guilt all the harder.

I guess a staff member or two must've disappeared.
posted by tel3path at 4:12 AM on March 7


how did Jack come over all suspicious in 12 weeks' time?

Maybe he finally notices that it rhymes?
posted by localroger at 5:19 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]


I bet Bedelia disappears before she can give Jack the report, and Jack realizes "hang about, I never got that unimportant, totally pro forma report from Hannibal's shrink. Well she'd have said something if it were relevant... nah better double check."
posted by tel3path at 5:36 AM on March 7


Abigail is Bedelia's younger counterpart.

Abigail clumsily, desperately revealed a partial truth in a flailing effort to protect herself, but didn't have a watertight case to present, and didn't think it through to the end.

Yes, I think The Whelk is right. Hannibal must have told Bedelia that he liked the thought of cannibalism, but without stating outright that he had actually done it. Meanwhile he probably "saved her life" and was leveraging a combination of gratitude and blackmail that made her look increasingly culpable with the passage of time. As the gratitude wore off, the blackmail would take care of itself - *especially* after she told that "half-truth" to Jack.

Feeding the "veal" to Bedelia was a not really veiled warning that if she misspoke, she herself could become "veal". I think she thought - hoped - that it was all just posturing and he wouldn't really do that.

Oh Bedelia, how're you going to get out of this one? Maybe you won't.
posted by tel3path at 5:43 AM on March 7


Continuing the theme of Letter A and Letter B: I wonder if Beverly will be some form of Alana 2.0, just as Bedelia is the longer-lived (more successful) version of Abigail.

I'm thinking in terms of Will's defence here. I doubt recovered memories are going to be much help in court, and like I said while I don't think the automatism defense is irrational, it's a tough sell and also doesn't fully explain the levels of careful thought that would have to have gone into things like tying the trophies into fishing flies. And Alana states her case with such optimism and confidence that I can't help thinking her confidence is misplaced. Basically it's like a lot of it is denial. I think she's probably not going to succeed.

Beverly is also emotionally disposed to believe in Will as a person to some extent. She says outright that she trusts him enough to bring this case file to him, but that she doesn't think she's being quite rational in doing so. She has a high bar of evidentiary standards for anyone to get over. If there is any evidence to find, it's Bev who will find it. If she wants to. And she does want to. She said last season she wanted the evidence to be in Will's favour.

Oh and Hannibal TOLD HER HE BUYS NEW SUITS ALL THE TIME. His murder suits surely must be long gone. I mean he's not an idiot.

Whelk, how many suits have we seen so far and how many of those suits appeared in S1?
posted by tel3path at 5:51 AM on March 7


Lol, I see fans thanking Yoplait and pledging to eat copious amounts of yogurt if only they'll keep the sponsorship coming.

I wonder, if it ever gets cancelled, would crowd funding future seasons even be possible. They'd need an awfully big crowd, but still.
posted by tel3path at 6:40 AM on March 7


Oh, that "I believe you" still. Looks like a snog about to happen.

It would be just my luck if that were for the benefit of the ChiltonCam, though.
posted by tel3path at 7:09 AM on March 7


ALL RIGHT HERE'S A THING.

The first link describes Will as "deeply damaged" and I've always contended that much of the damage is done by others' perception of him as CrrraAAAAZzzzYYYYyyy combined with his own acquiescence to that view.

Will now comes across as "stable" from behind bars. He is less jittery, less stammery, overall does not seem to be nearly as beset by shame as he was.

Part of this is his physical recovery of course.

But basically he is now refusing to believe the negative things that others say to and about him.
posted by tel3path at 7:16 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]


Back on hiatus until Sunday, or until I can get sight of Episode 2, whichever comes first.
posted by tel3path at 9:51 AM on March 7


Okay, first of all, by the looks of that injury Jack has only a few seconds left to live. Pending further information, that's one down. Something really improbably would have to happen to save him from that one.

Nah. That's a much less serious neck wound than Abigail survived. Yes, he needs help RIGHT NOW, but we don't know if he called for backup before confronting Hannibal, or plausibly help could arrive if he called from inside the pantry. Maybe someone else is in the house or is about to drop by! There are several plausible ways he gets out of this. I don't think this is the end for him.

Oh Bedelia, how're you going to get out of this one? Maybe you won't.

Bedelia is DOOOMED and anyone who thinks otherwise given what we've currently seen is fooling themselves.
posted by sparkletone at 10:13 AM on March 7


Abigail's blood was gushing steadily rather than spurting, which suggests that only her veins were severed. Abigail had immediate first aid, including a surgeon in attendance. There was someone there to call an ambulance.

Jack's blood is spurting from an artery, which means he's in big trouble and after the next 30 seconds, it's probably curtains for him.

Even if someone's in the pantry with him, they would have to be able to render first aid immediately and call an ambulance, which would have to arrive in time.

Anything's possible, but it looks to me like Jack's wound is going to be fatal. Like I said, something unusual would have to happen for him to survive this.

I agree that it seems unlikely that Bedelia will live, but anything's possible.

Really going on hiatus now, honest.
posted by tel3path at 11:17 AM on March 7


Jack is a pretty important character in both Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs so it seems unlikely that he's going to snuff it at the end of S2 unless we're going to be making a major bank away from Harris' version of the story.
posted by localroger at 11:30 AM on March 7


I don't see the show discarding Crawford before at least the version of SotL they eventually plan to do unless Fishburne's decided he's tired of the show and wants to go do something else. However he seems to really enjoy the role, so yeah. It's metagaming it, but I just don't buy that Jack is dead. He's in some shit though for sure.

It's really upsetting that Hannibal's transgressions when it comes to Jack have escalated from this to stabbing him with glass.
posted by sparkletone at 11:36 AM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I get that Jack being a major character is a problem, but so is arterial spurting from the neck, you know?

He might survive, but he is in a speed session of "Now Get Out Of That" and if he wins, I look forward to seeing how he does it.

REALLY GOING ON HIATUS NOW

for realz
posted by tel3path at 12:03 PM on March 7


Today I learned Ice T is a fan of the show.
posted by sparkletone at 12:37 PM on March 7


I don't think they can DO AWAY with Jack cause of his importance to the rest of the series but a horrible neck wound is a good excuse to have him Not Appear for a few episodes in the next season.
posted by The Whelk at 12:53 PM on March 7


Jack is a pretty important character in both Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs so it seems unlikely that he's going to snuff it at the end of S2 unless we're going to be making a major bank away from Harris' version of the story.

This is why I think he's safe, but there's the possibility they'll go in another direction. I don't know how long Laurence Fishburne signed on for. They don't as of yet have the rights to the Clarice Starling and Jame Gumb characters, so they'll be changing things up anyway. I wonder if they'd really go ahead and send Will Graham off somewhere 'in retirement' after the events of Red Dragon (he doesn't appear in any of the other books).

It's possible they'll kill Jack and slide Will into the mentor role for their take on Silence.
posted by lovecrafty at 1:39 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Jack is a pretty important character in both Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs so it seems unlikely that he's going to snuff it at the end of S2 unless we're going to be making a major bank away from Harris' version of the story.

What's harder for me to believe than Jack surviving that wound is Jack's career surviving the revelation of Hannibal's crimes. I keep wondering, how could Jack still have his job after all this?

Then again, all kinds of incompetent people seem to survive the catastrophes they helped creat, so maybe it's not that far-fetched.
posted by homunculus at 2:26 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Okay I'm going to start screaming and never stop.
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 PM on March 7


I'm not saying anything but basically, I started to scream internally at the top of the episode and I haven't stopped yet.
posted by The Whelk at 7:34 PM on March 7


So, like a typical Friday Night at the Whelk house?
posted by Justinian at 7:59 PM on March 7


Asdfghjkl:;
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 PM on March 7


I'm still laughing.

That's. Uh. Probably not an appropriate response, is it?
posted by dogheart at 8:06 PM on March 7


You people hurry up and watch this
posted by The Whelk at 8:06 PM on March 7


He was different tailored plastic killing suits you guys.
posted by The Whelk at 8:07 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


CLEO LINDA'S EPISODE ONE RECAP IS UP
posted by The Whelk at 8:08 PM on March 7


also guys this puts a lot more people into the death pool.
posted by The Whelk at 8:12 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


My heart rate is still up dear god, they where NOT FUCKING AROUND when they said this season was faster/more intense
posted by The Whelk at 8:16 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


I'm relieved to know that screaming at the television was the appropriate response to this episode because I certainly did my fair share of squealing and JESUS JACK WAKE UP BEDELIA CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY MORE WINK WINK NUDGY NUDGY.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:41 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


I also wondered aloud whether or not his clean suits were bespoke. Husband suggested that someone could make a killing with www.cleansuitsforfancypeople.com.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:43 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Also, I am happy Scott Thompson got lines this episode.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:47 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


I'm glad that, at least for what I know at this moment, Hanny isn't serving Bedelia to Jack for dinner 11 weeks from now. Of course that may change, but let me have this for now. (Also: we drank a wine called Carnivor during the show. A nice red, and I'm sure it's totally not people.) (It's probably people.)
posted by macadamiaranch at 8:50 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


Gillian Anderson deserves a medal for how she played Bedelia as someone using EVERY FIBER OF HER BEING to not start screaming until she can't make sounds. OH GOD.

Also, we should all get awards for calling the "Will is going to manipulate Hannibal into thinking they're FRIENDS cause his attraction/affection for Will is his only weak point"

Well that and cannibal puns.
posted by The Whelk at 9:09 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]


In an alternate universe, she doesn't make it because she left him a bottle of Justin Bieber Girlfriend just to piss him off.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:12 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]


"it's a new perfume it's called TRY TO FIND ME NOW NOSE-FREAK P.S YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS AND NO ONE LIKES YOU.
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]


Beverly with the science team, trying to J'accuse Hannibal with her eyes.
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


I love the way they blocked that scene in the lab with them bumping into to him as though he is literally in the way of them discovering the truth.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:17 PM on March 7 [4 favorites]


So the Leda-Swan-sex painting had to have a little modesty curtain draped over it but RIPPING AND TEARING CHUNKS OF FLESH OFF A SCREAMING PERSON is just FINE.*

Also, oh man that leg-sequence was hilarious. The jaunty music! The BAND SAW. Hannibal is all confident and sassy - just like someone who is going to start making mistakes.

"There is no god."

"Not with that attitude."

SASSY CANNIBAL. SASSIBAL

(But he was cooking for four who else was eating with?)
posted by The Whelk at 9:18 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


I like to think he invited three other people over but they all declined.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:21 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]


as terrifying as the corn-maze run was it wasn't equal to the spike of panic I got when Bedelia started walking away from Hannibal in the office. I think I left a dent in the chair from gripping it so hard.
posted by The Whelk at 9:21 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]


I starting freaking out during the scene with Bedelia and Will because you know Chilton's gonna bring that recording over when Hannibal invites him over for dinner to offload the leftover leg steaks.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:25 PM on March 7


Osso buco was a perfect accompaniment for the marrow in the silo.
posted by maggieb at 9:33 PM on March 7


I guess I wasn't expecting the osso buco to be an actual calf. Clever Hannibal.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:39 PM on March 7 [5 favorites]


Also Will literally saying he's going to have to help himself.

Tee hee.
posted by The Whelk at 9:54 PM on March 7


Hannibal: Let me help you

Will: I need your help.

*"SOME ENCHANTED EVENING" PLAYS IN HANNIBAL'S HEAD*
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 PM on March 7


Actual... calf... aaaaauuuuuhhhh. HE WOULD.

No, seriously, that was amazing. It probably says Bad Things about me that I laughed as much as I did. "Hello. Love your work." Like just full-on stupid hurr-hurr-hurr giggling.

And Jesus, like. He's kind of getting sloppy, isn't he? Leaving the guy, taking the leg. Is this the thing that gets him caught? It seems a little early for this to be the thing that gets him caught. But it does point to a larger pattern of Hannibal Having Too Much Fun, which will (presumably) inevitably lead to the fuck-up that does get him caught.

I screamed when he showed up at Bedelia's house in his plastic murder suit. And then there was sheets over the furniture and fuck-you-asshole perfume and I punched the air.

And Will! GET HIM WILL. Play that smirking fuck like a people-viola!
posted by dogheart at 9:58 PM on March 7 [3 favorites]


He's always been arrogant, but now he's much looser with the "ha ha I'm literally God" comments. I wonder how much of this is going to play in the "King-in-exile" nature of Hannibal seen in the books/movies.
posted by The Whelk at 10:03 PM on March 7


Craquelure has a fascinating history, BTW.

It's a primary tool in detecting forgeries for one thing.
posted by The Whelk at 10:22 PM on March 7


OMFG. His creepy little smirk (of admiration?) when he smelled the perfume.

So was Will quoting Sesame Street on purpose? "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just isn't the same. La la la now it's time to play our game!"
posted by lovecrafty at 11:04 PM on March 7 [2 favorites]


Yes, Will was clearly quoting the Sesame Street song which made me laugh.

I'm loving all the SotL inversions and, yeah, Hannibal is getting way too cocky. Does the end of this episode mean we won't see Bedelia again? I know Anderson has a new series starting soon but it won't be this series, dammit. It looks like a generic network thriller no different than a half dozen others. Hell, I'm already getting it confused with one from a couple years ago and it hasn't even premiered yet.
posted by Justinian at 11:14 PM on March 7


Damn, I'm really craving some osso buco right now.
posted by homunculus at 11:29 PM on March 7


Fuller's AV Club thing on this week's episode. He says there's more to Bedelia's story that he hopes to get to at some point, but Anderson's schedule is very busy.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:37 PM on March 7


Does the end of this episode mean we won't see Bedelia again? I know Anderson has a new series starting soon but it won't be this series, dammit. It looks like a generic network thriller no different than a half dozen others.

It looks idiotic. If Bedelia is being taken from Hannibal for that, well, that's just rude.
posted by homunculus at 12:10 AM on March 8 [1 favorite]


Can't blame her, really, it's a bigger gig and probably pays considerably more. But I'm thinking it will be one and done so if Hannibal miraculously survives another season maybe we'll see her again.

There was talk of one of the cable networks picking up the show. I'd love to see Hannibal move off-network.
posted by Justinian at 12:47 AM on March 8


Those weekly walkthroughs with Fuller are great - because I'm really happy to know that Cynthia Nixon is basically playing Paul Krendler in this version of the mythos. Because I can't wait until Hannibal lobotomises her and feeds her part of her own brain in season six.

I love that they played this episode like Bedelia was going to die - and then she got to walk away. I can't wait for her to come back eventually.
posted by crossoverman at 1:51 AM on March 8 [1 favorite]


I think the boat has sailed on any hope for the series to become canonical, though, between the multiple Starbuckings and SOTL character substitutions and the rearrangement of how Hannibal is captured, the wound man scene having already played out with Will's predecessor and Jack instead of Will getting into the he-almost-killed-me fight (and surviving that fight was a primary motivating factor for Will in Red Dragon.)

One thing I've noticed lately about the series, much more than the books, is that with the artful murder-a-week this is an alternate reality where serial murder, murder investigation, and public appreciation of it are much more prevalent at all layers of society, in much the same way car racing pervades every corner of life in the world of Speed Racer. One gets the distinct sense that these killers are creating totem poles and murals because they sense the presence of a large and appreciative audience for their work. In this world there are no novels by Thomas Harris because those stories are told in the newspapers.
posted by localroger at 8:03 AM on March 8 [1 favorite]


I'm not saying anything but basically, I started to scream internally at the top of the episode and I haven't stopped yet.

So I watched the episode when I got home last night while sobering up a hit and am I. The middle of a second viewing and I'll post more coherently when I've turned it over in my mind some more and caught up on relevant tweeting and tumblrs but for now... TTTTTHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
posted by sparkletone at 8:17 AM on March 8


I think the boat has sailed on any hope for the series to become canonical,

This is a weird notion to me. The series is literally founded on reading between a couple lines in Red Dragon, and clearly has a playful relationship with both the books and other adaptations. It's a really nice layer of extra fun if you're aware of any of it.

Given that foundation and where they've gone since, it's balatantly obvious that the series was never trying to be "canonical" in the sense of just repeating what'd been written by rote. At the same time I think they've done a really great job honoring the harrowing, purple style of the books (NB: I've read Red Dragon and SotL, not the rest). I think they're doing a really great job at it so far all things considered.

PS. Still screaming inside. This week's episode. AAGGGHHHHHH. HANNIBAL. THAT IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION TO THE CASE OF THE WEEK. YOU ARE THE WORST SUBSTITUTE WILL GRAHAM. I like that it's making him sloppy and I hope that over-confidence is a big part in what leads to his downfall.
posted by sparkletone at 8:30 AM on March 8 [3 favorites]


YOU ARE THE WORST SUBSTITUTE WILL GRAHAM.

LOL. It is kind of implied in Red Dragon that a combination of Having Too Much Fun and underestimating Will brought Hannibal down; it was a mistake he was careful not to repeat in the interval between SOTL and Hannibal.
posted by localroger at 8:47 AM on March 8


Dr. Zira: I like to think he invited three other people over but they all declined.

And we all know what lonely cannibal song he was he was actually listening to during that meal.
posted by echolalia67 at 8:51 AM on March 8


In this world there are no novels by Thomas Harris because those stories are told in the newspapers.

You know, I hit on this when talking to other people about the series. There's this whole sub-genre of American fiction that trades in things that we know don't really exist , shadowy yet ubiquitous Goverment agents, artful charming serial killers, empaths with eidetic memories, human totems, fancy cannibals, etc but we think should Linda exist based on how often they show up in certain types of fiction, almost like they're part of folklore. And Harris' novels and adaptations where a huge building block in setting up the motifs and tropes that would later grow into every procedural TV show and serial killer movie...

So it almost feels like we're going back to the original source, stripping it away from the "realistic" cruft other stories have out on it, and just reveling in the high gothic magical realism of it all while at the same time acknowledging all these quasi-folkloric ideas and characters that have come out of the genre.
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 AM on March 8 [3 favorites]


Hannibal takes place in a Harry Potter AU where Slytherin is the heroic house and MURDER WIZARDS walk the earth.
posted by sparkletone at 9:07 AM on March 8


I think the boat has sailed on any hope for the series to become canonical,

Just now realizing this is maybe a reference to what fuller says in this week's AV Club commentary. I ... Want to feel otherwise, but completely expect MGM to stay assholes about this stuff as if their idiotic idea for a Clarice Starling show will ever be anything ever.

Though that said, I do look forward to watching Fuller and crew navigate this. It just might result in a stronger show. Constraints can be so good for creativity.
posted by sparkletone at 9:28 AM on March 8


Play I've genuinely enjoyed and liked all the "new" characters and think they keep it from being too musty.
posted by The Whelk at 9:33 AM on March 8


okay so during the leg-cooking scene I wondered aloud "Is that a Le Creuset crock pot?"

It is
posted by The Whelk at 12:22 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]


Though that said, I do look forward to watching Fuller and crew navigate this. It just might result in a stronger show. Constraints can be so good for creativity.

Whatever will be, will be. I imagine the show will still be very watchable, but I think it'll be a real shame if season five has to be pseudo-Silence of the Lambs. Obviously the show canon is already wildly different from book canon, but what I want to see is a version of Harris' books where the cast is all the same and well made and well directed. I want to see Mikkleson's Hannibal face off against Clarice Starling. I want Fishburne's Crawford send her there.

I want Will and Clarice to meet goddammit!
posted by crossoverman at 2:39 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]


They have join a support club for Lecter Survivors.

No Mason you're not allowed.
posted by The Whelk at 2:51 PM on March 8 [1 favorite]


Just now realizing this is maybe a reference to what fuller says in this week's AV Club commentary.

Yeah sparkletone that was my intent. I think we're going to end up with Hannibal is to Harris versions AS inspired-by-real-events docudrama is to the original newspaper articles.

But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I'm enjoying the new character arrangements and the uncertainty introduced by the changes. I think seasons 4 on are only going to look like weird distorted reflections of Harris' original version. This new series is it's own thing but it's a pretty good thing all things considered, and a good homage if not accurate rendition of the original material.
posted by localroger at 4:38 PM on March 8


As I have said before, it's like the greatest Thomas Harris fanwork ever.
posted by The Whelk at 5:16 PM on March 8 [3 favorites]


Quite the ratings drop off this week. A drop is expected, I think, but this one feels pretty sizable.
posted by sparkletone at 8:03 PM on March 8


Whelk! Did you see this? They wrote it just for you!

And that ratings dropoff makes me sad. I'm streaming it in a separate tag, and apparently twitter trends count for something now, but it's still disheartening.
posted by dogheart at 10:05 PM on March 8


That was the article that made me stop my big huge Hannibal costume think thing, cause."ooooh wait they ( and many other people ) kinda ALLREADY did it. "


So I then tried tio recreate said costume design.

Cause like. Duh.
posted by The Whelk at 10:16 PM on March 8


A question: how does Hannibal get rid of things like table scraps, bones, THAT FOOT?
posted by lovecrafty at 11:40 AM on March 9


Compost!
posted by The Whelk at 11:49 AM on March 9


Another question: what does Hannibal think about when he poops? Does he meditate upon the person he's passing, or does he just read the newspaper? I imagine he would have a fancy toilet, at least.
posted by homunculus at 11:51 AM on March 9


Any bathroom problems are referred to as the Rude's Revenge.
posted by The Whelk at 11:55 AM on March 9 [2 favorites]


WELL. I TOLD YOU BEDELIA WASN'T BOOKED FOR HOME JUST YET.

Also: first time we've seen Hannibal working with recognisably human chunks.

(I should read the rest of the comments first)
posted by tel3path at 12:31 PM on March 9


Osso buco has one round bone. Human legs below the knee have two. I'm thinking Hannibal did not dare serve guests because the bones might be too recognizable. Certainly to other doctors, wouldn't you think?
posted by maggieb at 12:57 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


Then again, all kinds of incompetent people seem to survive the catastrophes they helped creat, so maybe it's not that far-fetched.

I have voiced strong objections to everyone's handling of this throughout, but last season? I was ranting about how I wouldn't be nearly as angry about this if they would JUST ASK THE QUESTION, who else could've done this?

Well, they did ask the question, and the evidence still came up pro-Hannibal, anti-Will. Now that they have asked this question and found answers that uphold their original position, I find it hard to stay mad at them.

Beverly is the measure of whether or not the evidence incriminates Will, we're left with no doubts either about her competence or her fair-mindedness. If Bev says the evidence is against Will, then the evidence is against Will. If she says there is no evidence against Hannibal, then there is no evidence against Hannibal. So far.

I still think that Will is and has been the victim of a worldview that classifies him as Crazy and is predisposed to see him as guilty - otherwise they'd have investigated Hannibal a lot sooner, since he is the other person who could have done it and who arrived on the scene at the same time as Will did. But at this point, a) not only can I not really fault people who take an evidence-based view that Will is guilty, but b) these same people are increasingly being nibbled at by their own instincts that actually, no, in some way they're as yet unable to explain, he is at the very least... kinda sorta trustworthy.

I'm mulling over the idea that it's easy to say Jack is an idiot, but like everyone else, he has been lied to and deceived a lot by someone he had decent reason to think of as trustworthy. He has social proof from Alana, after all. He is also Bella's shrink, meaning there's an emotional investment there too. As Will points out, there is a power imbalance between psychiatrist and patient.

EXCEPT.

The idea that Will "conspired" with his own neurologist to cultivate his own illness as a defense so that he could indulge his own crimes is... it's bonkers.

That anyone is considering it shows that: a) they now have uncovered that the neurologist detected the encephalitis and covered it up and b) WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY NOT INVESTIGATING HOW HE GOT TO THIS NEUROLOGIST FFS IF THEY SPENT FIVE MINUTES THEY COULD FIGURE OUT HE AND HANNIBAL STUDIED TOGETHER AND IF THEY KNOW HE'S CONNECTED TO HANNIBAL THEN ONCE AGAIN THAT IS YET ANOTHER GIGANTIC ARROW POINTING AT THE ONE OTHER PERSON WHO COULD HAVE DONE IT I MEAN FFS PEOPLE

Actually, yes, that conversation with Paul Krendler changes everything, depending on how many people know about it. It isn't actually clear that anyone but the prosecution knows about it. But if it's more widely known, FUCK.

It's hard for me to say, "Well! If I were in Jack's position, I'd have seen through it in an instant!" or not, because it's just not every day that my dying spouse's psychiatrist invites me over for a gourmet dinner of People Ears On Toast and then my Chief Seer and Empath gets arrested for five murders after coughing up an ear and I have to shoot him to stop him from shooting said psychiatrist. I think I'll be more qualified to comment on how dumb Jack is after I've been through a similar experience myself, really, so we'll see how that goes.

Anyway - Bedelia really is in solid black this time, and no mistake. Jack, I'm sorry, but if that conversation does not raise any suspicion then I take back the above paragraph; you are as thick as a docker's sandwich and should be fired, and pelted with fruits and various meats. INVESTIGATE IT, YOU DUMB FUCK. And not by asking Hannibal about it, FFS.

That other series GA is going to be in? I agree, it looks like shite. I assume she's doing it for the money.

So, others are catching glimpses of revulsion from Bev towards Hannibal, yes? It's not just me?

But anyway, the manipulation by Will of Hannibal and Alana has begun. He is playing them like a couple of human cellos. Go Will Go.

I hope Chilton caught that "I believe you" on camera, but the problem there is that, if so, it's already fallen into Chilton's hands.
posted by tel3path at 1:01 PM on March 9


And yes, I can't resist saying this even though I shouldn't because anything could happen, but

NEENER. I TOLD YOU BEDELIA WASN'T GOING TO BITE IT JUST YET.

willelia 5eva
posted by tel3path at 1:02 PM on March 9


Tel3path you are clearly Having Too Much Fun. Be careful not to combine that with Underestimating Somebody because you know what could happen...
posted by localroger at 1:04 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


Ah yes, localroger, and I was just going to say that this bit of fan fiction causes the book canon of Red Dragon to make MORE sense, not less.

And my head canon was always that Will doesn't mention it in the text because the FBI glosses over all that stuff in the Official Version because they just want it all to go away, and he just wants it all to go away, so he makes it sound like he'd never met Lecter before when he caught him.

It explains why he's drawn back to converse with Lecter. Intellectually, I could sort of understand it... but it's kinda thin... with the events of NBC Hannibal preceding it in the timeline, it makes TOTAL emotional sense.

Bev is drawn back to see Will because on an emotional level she trusts him, much as she can excuse it with wanting to solve the case. The trend of "let's go visit this serial killer to get his insights, because there's no way that could go wrong" starts with Bev, and right away, it's clear she is really doing it for emotional reasons. And Jack is really letting her do it for emotional reasons, too.
posted by tel3path at 1:10 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


So, who wants to revise the death pool, then?

One of the people who dies is supposed to be an Important Recurring Female from S1.

That doesn't tell us much as I can think of no recurring female who isn't important.

But anyway. I still think Bedelia could get killed, because I still think anything's possible. But for that to happen, Hannibal would have to find out her whereabouts and go there and hunt her down, or perhaps take a contract out on her. Or she would have to come back and he would have to know about it. He has too much keeping him busy at home, fun fun fun! So I don't think he'll bother going out of his way. But, who knows. HOWEVER I'm going to bet against Bedelia getting the fridge this season. At least by Hannibal's hand.

So as I said, my money's on Jack purely because the last thing we know about him by the end of S2 is that he has a spurting neck wound, which can be quite bad for you.

I think Zeller might get killed because I agree with fan analysis that the guy in the mask getting electrocuted looks like he has Zeller's nose. But, it might also be Will himself in one of his imaginings.

I think Kade Purnell is going to get killed this season, frankly, and not later.

Of the women, that leaves Alana, Bella, and Beverly. I think we've been told that Alana survives S2 (maybe? yes?), and I think Alana will survive but go mad. I think Beverly is about to Know Too Much and I think that puts her at extreme risk. But she's not an idiot. If she's been prepared to hear Will out, she will not do anything that could give the game away to Hannibal, on the off-chance that he actually is a murderer. But that doesn't mean she can necessarily outsmart or outmanoeuvre him. I think she's quite the formidable match for him, actually.

Over against the fact that Beverly hears Will out and she says her mind is open to finding more evidence, we have TWICE seen her wearing red IN THIS ONE EPISODE, an established symbol of allegiance to Hannibal. But once again, that allegiance may be evidence-based rather than emotional and, in any event, is certain to change when the evidence changes.

We know Bella is going to die, but I think it would be a bit soon if it were this season. I don't know how much she could influence the action in her state of ill health, and I don't know if she's likely to gain importance as a character in her own right, apart from Jack. Canonically Jack outlives Bella, so far there is no reason to think this will change on TV. So if Jack dies at the end, perhaps Bella dies before the end.
posted by tel3path at 1:25 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


I should add that I think it's possible Bedelia will commit suicide. Though all signs indicate she's simply fled. I think the black is symbolic of death, but I think she will "die" to this identity and continue her life elsewhere, instead.

It's where she says to Will that "traumatised people are dangerous, because we know we can survive." That's a statement of intent to live, not to die.

I also think I better watch the movie "Damage" because though I haven't seen it, I know it contains the line "Damaged people are dangerous, because they know they can survive."
posted by tel3path at 1:41 PM on March 9


or perhaps take a contract out on her.

Hannibal would no more hire a hit man than I would hire an assembly language programmer.

It's a bit odd to see the plot being driven by actor availability, but then that's film, a group project in every sense. I think if Gillian Anderson was available we'd be seeing her through season 7, but that just might not be practical.

The season intro fight scene is a flag that we enter the putative season 3 with Hannibal caught. This is one of the most pivotal unseen scenes of the Harris version, and even if Jack doesn't survive (unlikely but I don't think anybody has a life insurance policy in this gig based on their avatar in the books) it's unlikely that whatever set the fight in motion would go unremarked elsewhere if Jack dies or disappears.

My prediction is that the season will amount to Hannibal undoing himself because, as The New Will Graham and Favorite of the FBI, he is going to have Way Too Much Fun and eventually leave a tiny, almost inconsequential Clue in Exactly The Wrong Place. This will probably involve him hosing at least six investigations of mythic artworks before he makes The Fatal Mistake that leads to the season intro scene.

Meanwhile, I think about the only thing we can really count on from the Harris canon is that Will will hunt Dolarhyde with Lecter's from-jail help. Seven season plan or not everything after that is obviously air since they don't have the rights to the Harris characters from SOTL and they've already flapped enough butterfly wings to send a hurricane to Miami in Harris' universe. And without SOTL as foundationwork Will, Lecter, and Dolarhyde are really the only indispensible characters left if you want to tell some version of Red Dragon.
posted by localroger at 1:59 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


Right! So, until further notice, Bedelia lives.

(And that going right up to Will at the prison bars looked kinda sorta like a snog, if you squint.)

willelia 5eva
posted by tel3path at 2:03 PM on March 9


Note that when Bedelia goes to see Will, her last on-camera scene for the time being, she's not in black. She's in a deep wine red.
posted by lovecrafty at 2:03 PM on March 9


uh oh
posted by tel3path at 2:04 PM on March 9


I'm not sure the people making this series are overthinking the clothing colors quite as deeply as some of the fannibals.
posted by localroger at 2:08 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


No, but like I said, you definitely don't wear solid black onscreen unless there's a reason.
posted by tel3path at 2:13 PM on March 9


Feeding Hannibal Episode 2 is up!

Mads is apparently very good with a band saw.
posted by The Whelk at 2:15 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


The show rewards deep readings! No one can tell me otherwise!
posted by The Whelk at 2:19 PM on March 9


That other series GA is going to be in? I agree, it looks like shite. I assume she's doing it for the money.

Crisis. It will probably get better ratings than Hannibal, sadly.
posted by homunculus at 2:19 PM on March 9


"well all our evidence is circumstantial and doesn't really add up, what does Dr. Lecter say?"

"He says Will might be suffering from a rare case of Schmetaling-Haus."

"No one who speaks German could be an evil man!"
posted by The Whelk at 2:22 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


I'm actually far less worried about the show being renewed after listening to Bryan Fuller's episode of Kevin Pollak's Chat Show. He mentions that there were two other networks that offered to pick up the show if NBC didn't, so even if NBC caves in to Programming's concerns about not being able to sell the show, it won't be doomed. I expect we'll get our 7 seasons and a cookbook.

I must confess that I did not notice the plated eyeballs. I love her blog so hard. I find this particularly intriguing:

Anyway, he has to keep his girlish figure for the hot hot scenes to come mid-season. (Yes! You heard me -- hot scenes coming to your screen soon!!!)

So does a "hot hot scene" refer to hot as in sexytimes hot or hot as in spicy hot? I hope he's doing wasabi or something something because I think seeing Hannibal in a sexytimes context would give us more nightmares than that poor man's sinewy mural escape.
posted by Dr. Zira at 2:40 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


there are on-set photos of MAds in a swimsuit.
posted by The Whelk at 2:41 PM on March 9


The Onion A.V. Club is doing walkthroughs with Bryan Fuller for each episode. They aren't exactly spoiler-y, but there is plenty of discussion about rest of the season. In this week's Fuller talks about GA's availability and the series eventually getting the rights to Silence of the Lambs characters.

"Kaiseki"
"Sakizuki"
posted by gladly at 2:51 PM on March 9


So we'll be seing Mads' abs? Mabs?
posted by Dr. Zira at 2:52 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


> I'm not sure the people making this series are overthinking the clothing colors quite as deeply as some of the fannibals.

Oh I absolutely believe they do pay a lot of attention to the show's color palette and what colors the characters are wearing. Look at Mad Men with Joan's Purple Dress of Sadness and Breaking Bad with Walt and Skyler's Totally Normal Beige of Normalness. (Among many other significant colors--Vince Gilligan talked often about the colors the characters were dressed in.)

In the scene with Bedelia and Will, the lighting is very dark and gloomy. They could've put her in white (she's worn it before) or yellow and had her emerge like an angel or sunshine. Instead, they put her in deep arterial blood red rising out of the darkness.
posted by lovecrafty at 3:12 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


For some reason today, I can't stop thinking about what the death tableaux would be for various Special Holiday Episodes of Hannibal...

The first one that occurred to me was a Thanksgiving episode with a murder victim with another murder victim stuffed in side them. AND JUST IMAGINE HANNIBAL'S THANKSGIVING FEAST.

What is wrong with me.
posted by sparkletone at 3:15 PM on March 9 [2 favorites]


Good point. I suppose that if she ate the "veal" even though suspecting what it was, white would not have been an appropriate color for her. It also suggests to me that Hannibal's interest in her might be similar to his interest in Clarice in the books, to help her to "become." And she might be further down that road than Clarice was when we met her in SOTL.
posted by localroger at 3:15 PM on March 9


Wait, did He say three characters DIE or that they just meet "terrible, terrible fates"?
posted by tel3path at 3:16 PM on March 9


Every character in the series has met a terrible, terrible fate just by being a character in the series.
posted by localroger at 3:16 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


Yeah.

Even hannibal, though he lacks the insight to fully understand just how awful it is to be him.
posted by tel3path at 3:18 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


Wait, did He say three characters DIE or that they just meet "terrible, terrible fates"?

It's in the Nerdist Writers Panel linked earlier in the thread, if you're looking for the source on that. I forget the exact quote, but that's what I remember him saying. IIRC, he even kind of semi-blatantly says where in the season one of these falls.

Maybe I'm misremembering though. Can't go back and skim through it again for that bit.
posted by sparkletone at 3:18 PM on March 9


Episode 5, right.
posted by tel3path at 3:19 PM on March 9


That piece of info was one of the things I said upthread I had second thoughts about knowing having heard that interview. Ended up being okay with it but was kind of surprised he'd throw that out there like that given how circumspect he usually is about the future. Maybe he thought the Nerdist podcast wouldn't go up for another month or something (sometimes they're pretty delayed from when they're recorded).

But yeah. I believe that's the episode he says he had to write some heart-breaking reaction scenes for, so that or one before it.
posted by sparkletone at 3:24 PM on March 9


sparkletone: "The first one that occurred to me was a Thanksgiving episode with a murder victim with another murder victim stuffed in side them. AND JUST IMAGINE HANNIBAL'S THANKSGIVING FEAST."

Murducken? I don't want my brain to go to the place to imagine what he'll substitute..or rather who he'll substitute for the capon.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:25 PM on March 9


Granted that was also the interview where he talks about his older brother's circle jerks and how it's probably for the best Will and Hannibal aren't literally romantic cause they do " pretty fucked up things to each other."
posted by The Whelk at 3:31 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


The season intro fight scene is a flag that we enter the putative season 3 with Hannibal caught.

Fuller has said the first three seasons are mirrors of the three books, before they get to the books, so if season one was a mirror for Red Dragon, season two is a mirror to Silence of the Lambs (and it's almost literally that with Will in that cell), then season three is a mirror to Hannibal - which I think in the TV series means season three will be a manhunt; Hannibal on the run.

They are introducing Mason Verger this season - since we need to see Hannibal treating him - because I don't think Hannibal will have time to take patients next season.
posted by crossoverman at 3:33 PM on March 9


I am sorry though, i just. what.

They know Dr Sutcliffe diagnosed encephalitis and concealed the diagnosis before getting killed, and despite the fact Sutcliffe and Lecter worked together in the past, they are going to make the argument that WILL conspired with Dr Sutcliffe in order to cultivate his illness as a defense, and also killed the one person who had evidence for his defense, while allowing the evidence for his defense to remain hidden.

That genuinely, literally makes no sense.

Good for will for not challenging that. If that's the prosecution's case he's home free.
posted by tel3path at 3:33 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


tel3path: "That genuinely, literally makes no sense."

Welcome to federal criminal trial practice.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:38 PM on March 9


No localroger, I think Bedelia is Abigail 2.0, a more successful Abigail. I think Hannibal put her in an impossible position whereby she LOOKS (not IS but LOOKS) as guilty as him, by his design.

She escapes before Hannibal can cut pieces off her and jam them down Will's throat, so, yay... And she kept quieter for longer, therefore survived longer.

Hannibal looked quite pleased at not having to off her, in the end.
posted by tel3path at 3:39 PM on March 9


They know Dr Sutcliffe diagnosed encephalitis and concealed the diagnosis before getting killed

Do they know that? My recollection is that there were lines about how encephalitis could be missed if you weren't looking for it and since Hannibal kept Sutcliffe from putting anything about it in Will's records, destroyed the scans themselves and also destroyed Sutcliffe... No one knew about Will's encephalitis till after he gets shot at Abigail's house.
posted by sparkletone at 3:50 PM on March 9


That's what i thought but Kade Purnell said the prosecution was going to say Will conspired with his neurologist to hide his diagnosis. That means they know Dr Sutcliffe scanned him and found encephalitis.

Most likely there was an audit trail for the scans, and/or copies somewhere on the network.
posted by tel3path at 3:58 PM on March 9


What was up with that brief image of someone strung up in the courtroom? I figure this is another Wenigo Fugue State and not like, someone stung up for real in the courtroom.
posted by The Whelk at 4:01 PM on March 9


I figure this is another Wenigo Fugue State and not like, someone stung up for real in the courtroom.

There's a production still of the wendigo model in a suit in the witness stand... So yeah. Will's gonna zone out and hallucinate some scary shit.

Also, holy shit, Freddie is going to look FABULOUS.
posted by sparkletone at 4:03 PM on March 9


What the hell is Freddie's current relationship viz a ves Lecter? Does she still owe him anything cause at the dinner with Abigal she was pretty aggressive ....but then again he was in the way of her making literally tens of dollars with an Abigal book.
posted by The Whelk at 4:07 PM on March 9


I think Lecter is going to get mad at someone saying his bby is a murderer and/or is a murderer not responsible for his actions (he's a beautiful murder artist dammit!) or otherwise not stating the case the way he likes. And boom, literally strings someone up to express his displeasure with the justice system.
posted by tel3path at 4:18 PM on March 9


What the hell is Freddie's current relationship viz a ves Lecter?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't like her after that encounter in his office, but not quite enough to make her into food. I think the only other time they've interacted is that time he and Will walk in on her talking to Abigail and they kick her out.
posted by sparkletone at 4:21 PM on March 9


I'm stuck on "what can't you repress"

Cause I thinking wanting recondition for all ts wonderful, clever, oh so smart murdering is going to nag at Lecter.
posted by The Whelk at 4:24 PM on March 9


I'm stuck on "what can't you repress"

Cannibal jokes. Awesome cannibal jokes.
posted by sparkletone at 6:22 PM on March 9 [1 favorite]


The Sesame Street quote is just bringing up how childishly obvious it is. And it is. What is a sudden white-skinned guy doing in the very center of the pupil? No, he didn't remove his own leg, you silly billies.
posted by tel3path at 11:55 PM on March 9


Whelk, but one of the things that was so compelling about the novels was the procedural detail and the gaze into forensics that we didn't see much of until then. All that was to make the fantastical story seem believable, like stephen king couching his stories in the mundane.

I remember the olden days when crime fiction wasn't like this, and now it's the norm (weak imitations are the norm). But it's like we're getting the flip side of the coin, hand-waving reality and even fridge logic to get to what was really the point all along.

Funny to think that I've been here to see a genre develop from its original influence. No imitation has satisfied until now... IT'S BEEN A LONG WAIT.
posted by tel3path at 1:01 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


I think the only other time they've interacted is that time he and Will walk in on her talking to Abigail and they kick her out.

And that time they "run into each other" outside the house right before Nicholas Boyle - whom Freddie provoked into a frenzy of anger - shows up there "unbidden" and gets murdered by the use of one of the knives that "coincidentally" were lying on the table, along with a gun, in the room where Abigail was sitting.

You know, that time when they exchange conspiratorial and semi-coded messages about whether Freddie has seen an unwashed ginger-haired male running around.

Freddie's relationship vis-a-vis Lecter is that together, they create the stories. That's what.
posted by tel3path at 5:51 AM on March 10


Or, they did.

The BAU haven't seen much of her since they agreed to cut her in on the stories.

So for now there's only one fox in the henhouse, till the other comes back.
posted by tel3path at 6:02 AM on March 10


That's it. I'm gnawing on furniture in anticipation.

He promised us a soap opera, I want my soap opera
posted by tel3path at 6:41 AM on March 10


I just saw this post! Not sure how I missed it.

Random thoughts, catching up:

1. I would be surprised/disappointed if the opening fight scene is from the end of the season finale. The 12 weeks/12 episodes doesn't mean much to me, (though I suppose if someone shows that the show does run real time week to week I'd consider this more significant). And I agree, this works because we know where this is going, in broad strokes. This works as a promise of where we get in this season. I am expecting to catch up to the fight late in the season but will be shocked if we don't get anything significant after that fight.

2. I also don't believe Jack has seconds to live after the fight. That is to say I think they used more blood than they meant to/should have but I don't think what the show is trying to communicate is that Jack is about to die. He's in grave danger, sure.

3. Bowie in the 90s was actually pretty great. 1. Outside, for example, is a fantastic piece of work.

4. Jack is the worst. He has been the worst since the beginning. He's not insightful, he's not a good manager, he's not a good person. He's almost used as a foil, saying stupid things for Will to correct.

5. "Hello. Love your work" was the greatest line. I like seeing more of Hannibal's M.O. (since before too long there won't be any more to show) and seeing him make use of the information he's gathering filling in for Will.
posted by mountmccabe at 7:36 AM on March 10


What is a sudden white-skinned guy doing in the very center of the pupil? No, he didn't remove his own leg, you silly billies.

It was Will what pointed out that the unidentified white-skinned guy was the murder artist that made the (rest of the) eye; they all thought the serial killer was still on the loose. People recognized something was different about that guy (why was his leg cut off?) but they didn't understand the murder artist's design and thus didn't understand that it was hijacked.
posted by mountmccabe at 7:43 AM on March 10


Jack is the worst

Jack from the novels was quite a bastard. He set Will on Dolarhyde's trail knowing Will had multiple powerful reasons not to want to return to the field and nearly got Will and his family killed as a result. When Will finally got the memo and refused to go back to the well in SOTL Jack sent Clarice to see Hannibal knowing that he was sending a bunny rabbit to discuss entree choices with a saber-toothed tiger.

People kind of forget this because in Hannibal it's stated that Jack would have protected Clarice from Krendler if he hadn't been taken out of the equation by his grief over his wife's death and his heart attack, but Jack really wasn't a person you wanted to be working for.
posted by localroger at 7:47 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


yeah this is the most sympathetic Jack we've ever seen and he's still a myopic bastard.
posted by The Whelk at 7:49 AM on March 10


I also don't believe Jack has seconds to live after the fight. That is to say I think they used more blood than they meant to/should have but I don't think what the show is trying to communicate is that Jack is about to die.

They portrayed a spurting wound to his neck, which takes some doing. This must have been done intentionally. I don't accept that they mistakenly showed Jack's injury to be more serious than it was.

He has an injury which would leave most people with less than a minute to live.

To have any hope of controlling the bleeding, Jack will have to apply pressure, probably with his own hand. That depends on his having the strength to hold his hand up for any length of time, which is not easy when your blood pressure is dropping quickly. It also depends on his applying not too little and not too much pressure, because too much pressure on the carotid will cause you to pass out from hypoxia anyway.

TV and movie violence tends to give people an unrealistic idea of how difficult it is to kill another person. People often think you can go on beating someone up for a tremendous amount of time before you kill or grievously injure them, and it's not that way. The fight between Jack and Hannibal was towards the unrealistic end of the scale.

If anybody thinks that it's believable to be spurting blood from the carotid artery and survive for more than minutes, at most, without immediate skilled medical intervention, they are wrong. I guess maybe the suspense element of this is that a lot of people are going to be surprised if Jack dies from this injury, whereas I'm going to be surprised if he doesn't.
posted by tel3path at 8:09 AM on March 10


The A Matter Of Taste Podcast (check it! They dive into all the Harris books) they compare the almost formal, fencing-like style of the Hannibal/Tobais fight to the Hannibal/Jack fight where they're just trying to straight up murder each other.
posted by The Whelk at 8:12 AM on March 10


Hannibal is a show that takes death seriously, unlike a lot of television drama.

I'm worried by the number of people on social media who've expressed that they think Jack will survive this injury because there isn't that much blood, or whatever. This suggests that people don't recognise a fatal injury when it's put in front of them. It makes me wonder what people would do in real life; probably, they wouldn't realise they needed to do anything until after it was too late.

Again, I'm not saying Jack won't survive, but in the given circumstances as we're shown them he will probably die unless there is some kind of wacky means of rescue available, like a team of paramedics literally ready and waiting in the pantry.

I don't think that Jack is immune from death because he's a character on a TV show. I don't think he's immune from death because he's an important character on a TV show with a story arc that is expected to go years into the future. I don't know how they are going to be able to write him out of this one, and unlike a lot of people I think they might not be going to.
posted by tel3path at 8:30 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


First off I just read the AV Club Fuller recaps and he refers to the Jack/Hannibal fight as being from the season finale. Repeatedly. So I'm off there... but Fuller does note that there is a lot more going on in the finale, so it feels very unlikely that the fight is the cliffhanger or even close.


If anybody thinks that it's believable to be spurting blood from the carotid artery and survive for more than minutes, at most, without immediate skilled medical intervention, they are wrong.

This is reasonable and I agree. This is why I posited that they used more blood than they meant to/should have. Having Jack die 30 seconds after closing that door is dramatically inept. If he dies right away the fight was probably* pointless. If he lives just a couple minutes to send out a snapchat it will feel** cheap. From where I am right now it seems like there has to be drama following the fight, the fight has to set up something good or it feels like a false promise.

I fully believe that Jack could die***; the show doesn't care about the books in that way. They're aiming for the spirit of the books not the letter. But dramatically it seems really weird that this is how he would die.


* I suppose Jack may not have been the only guest at Hannibal's that evening. Imagine Alana showing up expecting to find Jack and finding that mess. Maybe a newly free from prison Will. Or whatever.

** Probably. I fully acknowledge that I don't know what's going to happen. And I suppose having a (living) EMT, etc. in Hannibal's wine cellar would be just as ridiculous. The fight opens up questions (as it is supposed to do) and I find them answered more easily with that injury looking worse than it actually was.

*** Also if Jack dies then, hell, so could Will. You get back some of the dramatic possibilities lost due to being a prequel if you don't give a shit about precision in where you're going. It's going to go somewhere LIKE Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs but they're not after literary reenactments.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:06 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Okay, I have a question here. Nobody likes Jack, I get that. I get why. Everybody says Alana is the best human, I get that. I get why.

But you know, she is playing the role of the Grandmother in "A Good Man Is Hard To Find". The Grandmother leads her family directly into the path of an escaped killer, though she has all the right information to decide otherwise. Specifically, the Grandmother knows that an escaped serial killer is at large in a particular region, and that a gas station en route has suffered some petty crime of a kind that a gang of criminals would be particularly well suited to commit. Despite this, she doesn't put two and two together; she manipulates the family into driving to that area because of a house she wants to show them (and then remembers the house is in another state). Having driven the family into the path of the killer, she then causes an accident because she secretly brought her cat unsecured with her in the car, hidden in her bag; when the cat gets out of the bag it causes her son to lose control of the car and crash it. As soon as she spots other people, she signals for help, not even showing token wariness about who this group of men might be. When the group of men turn out to be the escaped killer and his gang, she bargains for her own life against the lives of her own family. At the last moment, grace breaks through, and despite her failings her soul is saved.

A lot of Hannibal's social credibility comes directly from Alana's recommendation, and she should know - she worked for him long day in, long day out, for a long time. On the other hand, she is also part of the BAU, well trained - and we may presume demonstrably competent - to spot murderers. Despite all this, she is the one who brings Hannibal into the BAU, she is the one who affirms his trustworthiness on the rare occasions it's ever questioned, and she explicitly says that Hannibal is the one who can be trusted regarding Abigail Hobbs/Nicholas Boyle because he has "no reason to lie" over against others who do have reason to lie. We see a number of times that Alana does not notice, or chooses not to notice, certain details of Hannibal's behaviour (the tomato roses). The Whelk has pointed out before that they dress Alana in rather a reptilian look in S1; I have pointed out before that Hannibal may regard Alana as one of the "snakes" that pass by, which suggests he is continually on guard to keep Alana deceived. Obviously it's working.

I'm wondering if, instead of splitting Jack and Alana black and white, we should be bringing more grace to our view of both characters. Both these characters are being lied to and deceived systematically by someone they trust and depend on, and he is very good at it, and he is good enough at falsifying evidence that even Beverly, who is truth itself, has yet to find any reason to suspect him.

Jack's therapy session was brief, so what's in it is important. The shrink says to Jack "we all fail." Well, we all do fail. Jack's merciless, which is why we, the audience, are inclined to judge him without mercy (because judgement comes back to you like a boomerang). Alana's full of good works (adopts Will's dogs, all that sort of thing) so it's very clear that her heart's in the right place. I just don't necessarily think that Jack should be the only one to attract all the accusations of incompetence while Alana gets off scot free. Or rather, I'm wondering how much longer the narrative is going to let us keep looking at the characters this way when they're both making grievous errors, as humans do. Not hating them because they make mistakes has something to do with grace, and if they've brought up the O'Connor story, I'm anticipating that grace could become a theme pretty soon.

One's thing for sure, neither Alana nor Jack is being wilfully, gleefully malicious. They're people with good intentions and an incomplete view of the situation. There's one character there who is being wilfully, gleefully malicious, and he's the one who is really to blame for this; the other characters have failings small and large but it still doesn't make any of Hannibal's actions their fault.
posted by tel3path at 9:08 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]


Maybe a newly free from prison Will.

Who would know what to do thanks to watching Hannibal save Abigail.
posted by localroger at 9:08 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


I hope he has plenty of the right kind of blood handy nearby.

Oh wait, of course he does! It's Hannibal's pantry.

So Jack will die of cross-infection weeks later, instead.

I kid, I kid. I am genuinely agog to see what happens.
posted by tel3path at 9:12 AM on March 10


it would be no fun if Hannibal just develops prion disease from his diet.
posted by The Whelk at 9:45 AM on March 10


GodDAMNIT Fuller
posted by The Whelk at 9:49 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]


AIEEEEEEEEEE

Bedelia comes back?

Just to get killed?

I will be PISSED if that happens.

However, I remain smug in opposition to all those who said Bedelia was a dead woman walking.
posted by tel3path at 9:52 AM on March 10


willelia 5eva
posted by tel3path at 9:52 AM on March 10


As I have said. Last shot of the season *Montage of characters at lowest point, caked in blood, screaming* *Smash cut to Bedelia on a beach sipping a big ol' Pina Colada*
posted by The Whelk at 9:55 AM on March 10 [3 favorites]


(I kind of want to go to Fuller's boyfriend's antique store but everything is like five thousand dollars. Also Fuller co-owns an antique store full of elegant hunting themes WHO IS SURPRISED)
posted by The Whelk at 9:59 AM on March 10


And as I have said. Will paddles up in a raft, exhausted. Staggers ashore. Bedelia beckons manservant to provide Will with a shower, a shave and a change of clothes; proffers piña colada.

They sit on deck chairs in silence, contemplating the sunset. The only words exchanged are,

"Well, I tried to tell them."
"I know. Me too."
"Good thing we were both already traumatised!"
"To getting it over with" (clink)
posted by tel3path at 10:03 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


horse-leg chair
posted by The Whelk at 10:08 AM on March 10


i don't know how i feel about that chair
posted by tel3path at 10:14 AM on March 10


between this and his elegant three-piece suits I'm a little worried
posted by The Whelk at 10:18 AM on March 10


I feel like it should be featured on a tumblr called This Is My Design.

(Which turns out to be a non-fannibal art design thing).
posted by mountmccabe at 10:19 AM on March 10


every single item in this store looks like it would fit on the show.

This entire show might be a release valve for interior decorating impulses.
posted by The Whelk at 10:23 AM on March 10


(Oh god I must've walked past this store a hundred times when I was in West Hollywood)
posted by The Whelk at 10:28 AM on March 10


(also I feel like we all deserve a Masters in Film and TV criticism now)
posted by The Whelk at 10:31 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]


I keep going around in circles on my revised death pool.
posted by tel3path at 10:31 AM on March 10


I'm stuck on the comment that episodes 4-6 are going to be a "bloodbath"
posted by The Whelk at 10:39 AM on March 10


Hannibal Having Too Much Fun! Episodes 4-6

Jack and Alana still do not notice
posted by tel3path at 10:55 AM on March 10


"I say, the murder rate is a trifle high these days!"

"I know! If that fiend Will Graham were not behind bars, it would be even worse!"
posted by tel3path at 10:56 AM on March 10


...of course, Bedelia could turn out to be eviller than I could have suspected.

I don't think so, but maybe.
posted by tel3path at 10:58 AM on March 10


So I guess Fuller got his wish as expressed in the AV Club run down for episode 2:
BF: There was a much bigger, broader, longer story to be had with Bedelia that I’m hoping we get to play out in some form in the future, but because of Gillian’s schedule, we were only able to get her for a couple of episodes at the beginning of the season, and we’re desperately trying to figure out how to get her to navigate her schedule and get her back to wrap up her story. Though we want the audience to think when they see the trailer for episode two that she’s going to get killed at the end. The idea would be to get her back. There’s so much cool stuff with her backstory and her relationship with Hannibal and how closely it parallels Will’s relationship with Hannibal, which would be explored in an episode toward the end of the season if we can figure out schedules.
I am not mad at this turn of events. ASSUMING SHE DOES NOT GET ET.
posted by sparkletone at 10:59 AM on March 10


There is a movie from the 40s called Bedelia about a married man who suspects his wife is a serial killer.

I mean it's a stretch but you could read her as being complicit with way more things.
posted by The Whelk at 11:01 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


NO EATING PEOPLE WITH "B" NAMES.
posted by The Whelk at 11:02 AM on March 10


"wrap up" her story...

as long as she doesn't get wrapped in bacon, I'm good.

My blue-sky vision is for Bedelia and Will to go at it like bunnies and Instagram it with a passive-aggressive note aimed directly at Hannibal's vulnerabilities.
posted by tel3path at 11:02 AM on March 10


#notforeating
posted by The Whelk at 11:02 AM on March 10


Yeah... so far, though, other killers haven't been nearly as frightened of Hannibal as Bedelia has been.
posted by tel3path at 11:03 AM on March 10


#friends4eva
posted by lovecrafty at 11:03 AM on March 10


Will and Bedelia start a popular vegetarian cooking blog out of spite.
posted by The Whelk at 11:03 AM on March 10 [2 favorites]


I wonder how much of a stretch that is, Whelk.

It would be a plot twist to make her first a victim, then less of a victim.
posted by tel3path at 11:05 AM on March 10


other killers haven't been nearly as frightened of Hannibal as Bedelia has been.

They don't know what he's capable of...
posted by localroger at 11:05 AM on March 10


Vegetarian Cooking For Two Homebodies (never have friends for dinner again!)
posted by tel3path at 11:06 AM on March 10


esp. since Fuller says it's to parallel Will/Hannibal and we Hannibal keeps trying to vampire up more friends. She obviously knows exactly what that "veal" is.
posted by The Whelk at 11:06 AM on March 10


Yeah, but they all think they're capabler. It's in their nature.
posted by tel3path at 11:06 AM on March 10


Yes but if Hannibal nails the girl Will likes, surely Bedelia gets to nail the boy Hannibal likes. It's only fair.
posted by tel3path at 11:07 AM on March 10 [1 favorite]


After the ending of season one I really started to think that Bedelia had figured out Hannibal's secret and was kind of blasé about it. Though maybe it was that she was still getting over the shock of being attacked. And now after the Tobias incident and after the Will Graham fun times Bedelia has started to look back over her situation and realizes that maybe Hannibal orchestrated it (because he did).

Another thing about Bedelia is that she has great control over herself. She may have had strong concerns about what the "veal" was but she also knew enough to understand that she needed to be in a better position if she were going to accuse Hannibal or even do anything to raise his suspicions. Like not eat the veal and say, mmmm, this is great veal (no wink).
posted by mountmccabe at 12:02 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


No one has yet mentioned the possibility that Hannibal could save Jack.
I think we can see it.

Jack has lost enough blood he can't hold the door closed any more
He falls to the floor, Hannibal bursts in
we switch to Jack's POV
Hannibal stands over him for a moment
we hear the sound of Jack's heart beating faster, weaker
Hannibal cocks his head slightly and then slowly squats
and reaches for Jack's neck
Jack fades to black and the sound of his heart fades away
agonizing black silence
suddenly sound an noise
we're in the ambulance (or maybe the ER?)...ect.ect.
...I think I just stole the last part from RoboCop

I'm no good at this but you get the idea
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 12:13 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


wait...... what if Jack is storming over there cause he found out about Miriam (somehow). Like he's not coming over to arrest him, he's coming over to MURDER him. Hannibal saves his life, thinking he could play this off as "wow another FBI agent went mad and attacked me!"

And then Alana shows up, cause she was running after Jack thinking he's about a murder an innocent man...

then sees Hannibal covered in blood.
posted by The Whelk at 12:19 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Everybody says Alana is the best human, I get that. I get why

This is a really interesting thing to bring up because we have a show in which everybody says that Hannibal is the greatest, yet he's a serial killer and a cannibal.

Maybe Alana has us - and most everybody in the show - fooled, too. She comes off as very competent except in that she unquestionably supports Hannibal. She comes off as very kind, to Will, to his dogs, to Abigail, etc.

It's possible that something happened to her in the past. That she, like Bedelia and Abigail, was set-up and "saved" by Hannibal. That and/or she in some other way is covering for him.


I mean, the show is probably setting us up with at least one other character; Jack has been shown to be incompetent and distracted but it's him we fighting Hannibal (though maybe everyone else is dead by then).
posted by mountmccabe at 12:28 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


I'm wondering if Alana is somebody Hannibal *didn't* manage to compromise, but something was left off-kilter all the same.
posted by tel3path at 12:39 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


I think the Bedelia situation was things just looking darker and darker with hindsight.

She may suspect the veal is people but be hoping against hope that "no, surely not."

And even if she did suspect, she didn't have any good choices; if she wanted to live, she was going to have to eat what was put in front of her.

As frightened as Bedelia is, she's the one who tells Hannibal what she thinks of him in the end, and she is the one who tips off the FBI in the end.
posted by tel3path at 12:42 PM on March 10


S02E03 preview.

Will gets unfortunate fan mail.
posted by sparkletone at 12:55 PM on March 10


Will gets unfortunate fan mail.

Aww, that's so sweet. Hannibal doesn't want to see his friend in jail (or given credit for his work?), so he murdered someone and sent an ear in the post. Hannibal is a nice man afterall.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 1:05 PM on March 10


oh man Will's gonna get an earful.
posted by The Whelk at 1:10 PM on March 10


Aww. He's worried about Will subsisting on hospital food.
posted by tel3path at 2:04 PM on March 10


An just when it seemed no one would lend poor Will Graham an ear.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 2:05 PM on March 10


(i assume; i can't see that clip here)
posted by tel3path at 2:05 PM on March 10


I'm not sure the people making this series are overthinking the clothing colors quite as deeply as some of the fannibals.

I had this as a general feeling about people's interpretations of intent for this show...that was until I watched the episodes with audio commentary on the DVDs. Fuller and his team are meticulous. I was shocked. The red on the walls in Hannibal's office and the whole descending from the upper level down into hell symbolism. Will getting out of bed with mud covered feet as a homage to a scene in Pet Cemetery. Better examples that I can't think of at the moment.
One comes away feeling that anything that might catch one's eye on the show (and many more that might not) have behind them a careful and deliberate intent. As The Whelk has said, Hannibal is itself truly a great work of fandom.

And just as a quick follow to that: Many have pointed out the level of "air-brushing" applied to Gillan Anderson in a particular scene in Kaiseki, suggesting it was done to "enhance" beauty that needs no enhancing. I posit the intent there was something much more along the lines of adding a deliberate angelic glow (she also has the lit window behind her in that frame) to further contrast her with the devil figure in Hannibal that was sitting across from her.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 2:35 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Yeah I was looking for the guauzey bloom fill in Bedleia's scenes in episode two and didn't find them. I think they where just really going for a lighting effect in that one scene cause it didn't carry over.
posted by The Whelk at 3:02 PM on March 10


Does anyone think there's even a remote possibility Alana is actually a Very Bad Person, perhaps even a killer herself? And that Hannibal doesn't know?

I think she's just accidentally complicit throughh unperceptiveness but... You know... Possibilities. As you say, mountmccabe. We've seen nothing to suggest that alana isn't lovely, but the other characters have seen nothing to suggest hannibal isn't lovely.
posted by tel3path at 3:08 PM on March 10


Will might get a bit tired if everyone who expresses romantic interest in him turns out to be a serial killer.
posted by The Whelk at 3:13 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Why Do I Keep Attracting The Wrong Kind Of Person?
posted to human relations at 11:55pm
posted by tel3path at 3:56 PM on March 10 [2 favorites]


If you people loved me you'd get me that 1940s table on fullerroberts.com
posted by The Whelk at 4:17 PM on March 10


Sorry The Whelk I spent all my disposable income this month on the 22 karat gold leaf finish horse head lamp.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:55 PM on March 10


Oh god I want it.

Oh and, for suits? Hannibal has been wearing the same brown and blue windowpane for the last two episodes. I covet his shirt actually, it's this deep, non-navy blue-green that's so eye catching


It's actually the same color as Will's jumpsuit.

Eep.
posted by The Whelk at 6:00 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Can I just...since we're wandering slightly afield here: Have you SEEN Fuller's picture on the bios page on the NBC Hannibal site?!

http://www.nbc.com/hannibal/about/bio/bryan-fuller
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 6:17 PM on March 10


I think it's more him literally dressing up in one of Hannibal's outfits with the MURDER TIE for the first big media event for season two.

Dude is the ultimate fanboy. It's wonderful.
posted by The Whelk at 6:19 PM on March 10


I love that fox.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:02 PM on March 10


The fox pic predates Hannibal by a year or more, I think. But he does pull off the Hannibal-style suit and tie look very well.
posted by sparkletone at 7:04 PM on March 10 [1 favorite]


Hannibal paper doll
posted by maggieb at 1:06 AM on March 11 [1 favorite]


Ehhh, I don't think Alana's a bad guy. Blind, sure. But someone has to have the moral high ground in this relative morass. And besides, that will make it all the more awesome/terrible when Hannibal seduces her. (If it's someone else getting cannibal smooches, I may rethink that.) But as it stands, thematically it just makes more sense to me.
posted by dogheart at 1:24 AM on March 11


Was that something blowing up in the preview i couldn't see?
posted by tel3path at 3:02 AM on March 11


Was that something blowing up in the preview i couldn't see?


Yeah. It stated with an interior shot that I thought was a flashback to the...static hairbrush incident... but then it switches to show Jack in a car looking at a house that has a fireball shooting out of the window.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:07 AM on March 11


So, trial next:

Will gets death penalty? Yes? no?

Will gets released into Hannibal house arrest? Kept on a short leash by his not-psychiatrist? All those fanfics to be taken disconcertingly literally? Everybody agreeing that since Hanni has provided the shittiest most incompetent care imaginable so far, he should definitely get the opportunity to bollocks things up for his patient even more?

They're just moving really fast is all. Plenty of time for fake/pretend hannigram, haw haw. Manipulation f*** yeah.
posted by tel3path at 4:01 PM on March 11 [1 favorite]


"I know it's not orthodox, but something tells me to go with my gut on this one. Mr. Graham? By the order and authority of the State Of Virginia I declare you Hannibal Lecter's Boyfriend. Please see the officer to collect your personal affects. Dismissed."
posted by The Whelk at 5:18 PM on March 11 [3 favorites]


Will gets released into Hannibal house arrest?


Bwuh.

...ahem.


As amazing and beautiful and wonderful as that would be, I don't think they'd go there quite this early in the season, if only because that hospital set looks fairly elaborate and like they want to get more mileage out of it. Especially if this season is the SotL callback.

But oh boy, how completely awesome would that be? That'd be even better than, uh. Watching Mason feed his dogs. (I love that the general tumblr reaction seemed to be "yep, that guy has a face made for eatin.'")
posted by dogheart at 5:22 PM on March 11


I still wanna know how Will gets the mask.

You know he bites someone.
posted by The Whelk at 5:27 PM on March 11


Maybe he bites Chilton. In the face.
posted by dogheart at 5:46 PM on March 11


Chilton should be injured every season,
posted by The Whelk at 5:47 PM on March 11


Just have it as this hillarible running joke until he eventually turns into Starr from Preacher. Like don't even have him get et, just more and more improbable injuries.
posted by dogheart at 6:03 PM on March 11


Chilton should be injured every season

What meal do you think Hannibal will eventually make out of Chilton? He's going to be a tough side of white meat if he gets gutted and/or fileted every season.
posted by crossoverman at 7:05 PM on March 11


Every season he loses another body part. Finger. Eye. Lung. Make it happen show.

(CHilton is all mouth, tongue or cheek of course. Or maybe a rump roast for the ass of a man.)
posted by The Whelk at 7:30 PM on March 11


I would suggest a recipe from 50 Ways to Eat Cock: Healthy Chicken Recipes with Balls! which may be the best name for a cookbook since To Serve Man.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:47 PM on March 11 [2 favorites]


oh god I just saw pictures of Freddie Lounds' court outfit and holy god she has a straight up church hat on
posted by The Whelk at 9:28 PM on March 11


"I know it's not orthodox, but something tells me to go with my gut on this one. Mr. Graham? By the order and authority of the State Of Virginia I declare you Hannibal Lecter's Boyfriend. Please see the officer to collect your personal affects. Dismissed."

"Nooooo!!!! I wanna stay here where I'm safe! Please Your Honor, throw the book at me, I killed all those people and then some!!! [bites someone in desperation]"
posted by tel3path at 12:33 AM on March 12


Who can identify Bedelia's perfume? I can't work it out.
posted by tel3path at 2:38 AM on March 12


I don't think it's meant to be any specific brand - some commentary on if it was a Fuck You move is a bit more subtle - it's a super dramatic, over-the-top symbolic thing to do loaded with metaphor I:E exactly the kind of thing Hannibal respects and admires. That last look is so "Aha! Surprised again! Mayhaps I shant kill you after all you minx."

Basically, she did what she always did. Keeping herself alive by pandering to his ego and flattering his pretensions.

Bedelia is the best you guys.
posted by The Whelk at 8:29 AM on March 12 [2 favorites]


Yeah because Bedelia is a PROPER psychiatrist, not a rubbish one.

Nobody expects Hannibal to provide any useful treatment whatsoever, and he does not disappoint.
posted by tel3path at 8:40 AM on March 12


I'm trying to imagine him interacting with PhD students and I . Just. Cannot.
posted by The Whelk at 8:44 AM on March 12


He would have been interacting with interns, wouldn't he?
posted by tel3path at 9:02 AM on March 12


"why does this forensic sample have teeth marks all over it?"
posted by The Whelk at 9:05 AM on March 12


Oh wait, Young ER doctor Lecter.

"looks like we have to amputate!"

"but it's a stomach flu."

*cannibal tummy rumbling*
posted by The Whelk at 9:38 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]


I have some Feelings about Hannibal advising PhD students and Alana like, running interference for him and oh my god you have NO IDEA how I could go on.

I imagine his ER phase came to an end after he realized he was Having Too Much Fun. Perhaps even more fun than the fun he is having now.
posted by dogheart at 9:50 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]


WHO WAS HE HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH AND IS THAT PERSON IN A SAFE PLACE WITH ALL THIER LIMBS?
posted by The Whelk at 9:54 AM on March 12


Miriam Lass and his new home brewing hobby.
posted by tel3path at 9:56 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]


He says his ER phase came to an end when he killed somebody but I think it was more he was putting on too much weight from the Victim Buffet presented by a hospital. Having to chase them down and drag them home is great cardio.
posted by The Whelk at 9:56 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]


I wonder... when Bedelia closed her practice, how many of her patients got referred to Hannibal?
posted by tel3path at 10:20 AM on March 12


Okay okay, so the ratings are down and you know what happens then--things get retooled. Ideas:

Will gets sentenced to be Hannibal's butler on Who's the Cannibal?

Hannibal can never find time for a nice meal when he's juggling hormonal sexy psych residents on Escoffier's Anatomy.

The sparks fly when Hannibal and Bedelia have to share a practice due to a mixup at the realtor's office. You'll be asking "Will they or won't they?" each week on Feed a Fever.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:54 AM on March 12 [1 favorite]


I should be laughing at that idea, but it's only making me depressed.

I tried to watch Criminal Minds yesterday.
posted by tel3path at 1:17 PM on March 12


Promo stills for 2.04 are around if you want to see them. The only hint I'll offer as to their contents is this.
posted by sparkletone at 1:19 PM on March 12


A nice Grantland piece about the show.
posted by sparkletone at 3:27 PM on March 12 [4 favorites]


Wait what

HANNIBAL saying "this ear is an opportunity"

So that would be the OTHER ear, then?!?

Hannibal, what the fuck is WRONG with you??? This is your strategy for skipping away into the sunset with your Murder Husband?

Dude, you have a thought disorder. I don't care how lucid and not-cray everyone says you are, because I now understand how you made that insanity plea work for you. You are CRAY.

If Will has to assume the points of view of a convoluted nutjob like you, he'll need surgery to pop his shoulder back in place and unjam his heel from behind his ear.

Cray.

Also, they could totes 110% prove it's Abigail's ear and still maintain the conviction that Will must have mailed it to himself. Months ago.
posted by tel3path at 3:35 PM on March 12


"YOur honor, I'm not going to say Will Graham is History's Greatest Monster, but he clearly planned this from the very start, possibly during kindergarten."
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on March 12 [2 favorites]


Damnit sparkletone, I knew what that video was going to be and I clicked it anyway. (Well done.)

Didn't they say something about the ear being removed less than forty-eight hours beforehand?

And yeah, Criminal Minds is-- well, I don't watch a shitload of TV, so I don't know if it's actually abnormally bad, but my BFF put it on one time for hangover-viewing, and I have never forgiven her.
posted by dogheart at 4:59 PM on March 12


Oh so

It's a random ear from the Infamous Random Ear Killer?
posted by tel3path at 5:22 PM on March 12


Hell, maybe Abigail's alive and going by Mischa now. Without any ears.

I mean, it was totally Hannibal, who else would it be? But honestly I don't have Clue One who the actual ear belonged to.
posted by dogheart at 5:38 PM on March 12


Re: The ear and it's ability or failure to exonerate Will.
The first words you hear in the trailer is Will's attorney saying "We have to create a desire to find you not guilty." Then Will's attorney is shown opening the earvelope.
Since it's too early for a full blown trial (also, there are no jurors sitting the box, nor is the courtroom crowded enough for jury selection), I'm trying to think through what type of hearing would get them into a courtroom and require witnesses. The only reason I can think of that they would be having a hearing this soon in a criminal proceeding of this magnitude would be a prelim, an evidentiary hearing, or competency hearing. A prelim, if not waived, would have to have been within 2 weeks of Will's initial appearance (at least under fed rules, and since the previous episode had Cynthia Nixon threatening him with federal death penalty, so I think this is a fed trial). It would make sense in the storyline to show a prelim play out because that's basically a mini trial for the judge to decide whether the guv'ment has enough evidence for trial.
So, if we're only 2 weeks into the timeline, it's still plausible for the guv'ment to argue that Will was responsible for the ear in the envelope and find PC, especially because it looks like the earvelope was opened at the hearing by Will's lawyer. Or maybe they recessed or continued the hearing, ran to the lab forensics, and came back.
Then again, it's TV law so all bets could be off.
I should probably go do something besides watching the trailer over and over again to nerd out over criminal procedure for fictional serial killer trials.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:29 PM on March 12 [2 favorites]


Bedelia OUT, bitches.
posted by sparkletone at 8:32 AM on March 13


One of our nurses just asked me if I ever "watch that show, Hannibal".
In my head I'm screaming "don't gush, be cool".
"Yes, I'm a huge fan." I say.
I don't know what she said next, but it resulted in me slightly yelling
"I know, oh my god, the FOOOOD PORN!" in the middle of clinic.
I don't think any patients were present. I think its going to be ok.

You guys, I may have made oblique reference to doing "Hannibal Dinners" on Fridays.
Is this embarrassment I'm feeling?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 9:43 AM on March 13 [3 favorites]


Never feel guilty about anything you eat...
posted by The Whelk at 9:51 AM on March 13 [4 favorites]


Aaaaargh. I only saw S1 after it had ended and now S2 is progressing at a snail's pace from my point of view.

It's YEARS till tomorrow. I won't make it.

And then 10 more episodes, week after agonising week.
posted by tel3path at 1:24 PM on March 13


So, the judge gets the top of his head taken off already?

My, that was fast.

So that's seven counts of murder Will is going to get done for.

"Gasp! A man so evil he can kill at a distance! He must be hanged from the neck until dead, then a stake plunged through his heart and then he must be buried in a lead-lined coffin and the ground sowed with salt"

Or, is it that: Hanni sends him a fan ear, but it backfires and Will gets blamed for that too, so he then makes sure Will is confined to his cell and that Chilton is watching him on the ChiltonCam and then, he takes the top off the judge's head to clarify the point?
posted by tel3path at 2:38 PM on March 13


Legit Republic - guess they're going to be stepping up their inventory tracking at the morgue where you work?
posted by tel3path at 2:42 PM on March 13


It kinda fits into a discussion of murder tropes but I'm mostly I'm just proud of having writ it.
posted by The Whelk at 4:00 PM on March 13 [6 favorites]


Future companion piece A Day In The Life Of. A Baltimore County POlice Detective ( where are these people getting so many antlers?)
posted by The Whelk at 4:11 PM on March 13


...inventory tracking at the morgue where you work?

Fortunately we don't have a morgue at our facility.

It's YEARS till tomorrow. I won't make it.
You will. We shall gather in this place.
We shall read The Whelk's tongue-in-cheek explorations of tropes... and we'll get through this...together.

Now take a breath, relax, and step into this nice warm bath I've drawn. The bullion cubes will sooth you.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 5:36 PM on March 13


Hannibal Without People

http://kaltspiegel.tumblr.com/post/79468729836/i-made-a-compilation-of-scenes-from-the-entire
posted by The Whelk at 5:54 PM on March 13 [1 favorite]


Gillian Anderson did an AMA today.
posted by homunculus at 6:29 PM on March 13


Q: "Why did it take you a whole series to believe Fox Mulder, but only one season to believe Will Graham?! You'd never even met him and the first time you do you're like "I BELIEVE YOU!"
seriously though, was there any sense of irony when you had to deliver that line? Did you laugh about it on set?"

Gilliant Anderson: "The irony was not lost on me in that moment. Let's just say that."
posted by crossoverman at 7:04 PM on March 13 [6 favorites]


Crossoverman, that's not even the best, most glorious one:

Q:My question is assuming your character is made into a gourmet meal by Hannibal what type of food would you want to be made into?

GA: Something so rich that he'd choke on it and die.

OUR QUEEN.
posted by sparkletone at 8:02 PM on March 13 [3 favorites]


Hannibal Without People

I spotted quite a bit of people.
posted by figurant at 8:33 PM on March 13


Anderson says we will see Bedelia again!
posted by Justinian at 9:35 PM on March 13


She better be alive, healthy, and conscious.

I suppose they arrest her for all Hannibal's crimes. "Yes, Jack, I have been protecting her for fear i would look as guilty as her... I didn't know what she was capable of"
posted by tel3path at 3:41 AM on March 14


I just realized I could go to a Batman themed cabaret show OR watch the next episode.

Like there was no question, I'm watching the next episode.

I can go to Batman Cabaret AFTER.
posted by The Whelk at 7:37 AM on March 14


You can go to a Batman Cabaret any time. ANY TIME.
posted by tel3path at 7:54 AM on March 14


Anderson says we will see Bedelia again!

Yes! Fuller posted a pic of her set chair the other day. I think given where they must be in production it's probably episode 12 or 13.

I can't imagine at the moment what would draw her back though. Maybe she's too upset by Hannibal keeping her bottle of Eau De Nope.
posted by sparkletone at 8:29 AM on March 14 [2 favorites]


Flashback! Flashback!
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 AM on March 14


Will this cabaret be themed to a particular incarnation of The Batman, or more of a 'Its A Small World' of Batman(Batmen?)?

Regardless, if you can watch first, posting non specific emotional reactions to the episode here while those of us still awaiting our local airtime chew our fingers off with anticipation (its ok tel3path, were almost there), then that would be preferable I should think.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 8:51 AM on March 14


What would draw her back?

Will escapes, Bedelia provides safe house
Hannibal escapes, Bedelia runs to the one place she can be certain he won't be (Baltimore State Asylum For The Insane And Crazy)
Hannibal suddenly motivated to hunt Bedelia down
Bedelia appalled by how Will's trial is going, decides to testify against Hannibal even in face of danger of death/prosecution
posted by tel3path at 9:03 AM on March 14


I am not at all sure, BTW, that Will is going to be permitted to walk out of jail, he may have no choice but to escape - either because of urgent need to capture Hannibal or because everyone goes "so okay, Hanni's a killer, but that doesn't mean you're not one/you still need to do time for naughty antics such as escaping/we choose to believe you're still nuts/a year of due process is required before you can be let out even though exonerated" etc etc etc
posted by tel3path at 9:05 AM on March 14


I assume Will's trial is going to obey Magical Realism Law Rules cause otherwise it would takes yeeeeeeears.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 AM on March 14 [1 favorite]


I'm glad I don't have to make the choice between Batman Cabaret and Hannibal. (But then I'm the kind of nerd with an oblique Batman tattoo, so uh. Take that as you will.)

But yeah, I'm thinking she'll be back for a flashback or righteous exoneration of Will. HOPEFULLY WITHOUT GETTING ET.
posted by dogheart at 9:10 AM on March 14


Revised death pool, anyone?
posted by tel3path at 9:14 AM on March 14


OH HELL THOUGH

IT'LL BE AGES BEFORE EVEN THE SLIGHTEST SUSPICION FLICKERS ACROSS ANYONE'S MIND THAT MAYBE POSSIBLY IMAGINABLY IT COULD BE A) NOT WILL AND B) HANNIBAL

I mean, a veritable barrage of body parts, a decimated courthouse staff, and everyone will hold fast to their convictions.

Question: is it known to anyone outside the BAU that Will coughed up a human ear? Silly question, because Hannibal knew it and Hannibal will have said so to Freddie Lounds if it suited him. Also the BAU has a deal with Freddie so any one of them could have told her about it (except they all hate her). If Freddie knew, Freddie could have made it public. And therefore a random ear could have come from anybody.

So to cast doubt on Will's identity as the Copycat, it would have to be either a Secret Ear, or a Special Ear (belonging to Abigail).

In either case, they could always say "huh I guess Will had an accomplice then" because the problem of his coughing up the ear is still a teensy little bit of a problemette.
posted by tel3path at 10:33 AM on March 14


"Cough up, Will - uh, I mean, confess, Will! How did you mail that ear to yourself?"

"I didn't, it was Hannibal."

"I told you I don't wanna hear this any more! Now how do you explain the ear down your throat if you didn't swallow it yourself?"

"Well, like I said, Hannibal."

"FFS, Will, if you had an accomplice you need to tell us who it was. Maybe we can work out a deal whereby you get a better-quality last meal, perhaps one cooked by Hannibal, before you get the chair."

"I didn't have an accomplice and it was Hannibal who did all of this, 100%, and if Hannibal cooks my last meal it's probably going to feature yet another ear, possibly YOUR ear knowing the kind of sense of humour he's got."

"That's it! Now you're threatening me! The deal's off!"

"Um... yay?"
posted by tel3path at 10:53 AM on March 14


Anyway... submerging until I see the ep
posted by tel3path at 11:10 AM on March 14


Awesome manstag display at Fuller's store http://tattle-crime.com/post/79566924453/for-anyone-who-missed-the-beautiful-hannibal
posted by The Whelk at 11:14 AM on March 14


(But then I'm the kind of nerd with an oblique Batman tattoo, so uh. Take that as you will.)

Awesome manstag display at Fuller's store


That could make for an interesting back piece.
posted by homunculus at 11:21 AM on March 14


Thanks to an internet acquaintance, I am now imagining a Hannibal/Dora The Explorer cross over where Dora teaches Will how to deal with Hannibal. Obviously what she teaches him is to hold up his hand and say firmly, "HANNIBAL, NO CANNIBAL." over and over.
posted by sparkletone at 1:53 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]


Anthony Bourdain tweeted praise about the show ell oh ell. one two
posted by sparkletone at 3:10 PM on March 14


Any of y'all have any one thing interesting planned for dinner this evening? I could use some inspiration.
The Bourdain mention has me thinking poutine with beer and cigarette, but unless the poutine is people, that doesn't feel very Hannibal.

Hmm...maybe something with tubed-meat? Done right that could be both Hannibal AND Bourdain approved.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 3:19 PM on March 14


Also, I think Bryan Fuller shared this on his Twitter the other day:
Hannibal’s Feminist Take on Horror
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 3:21 PM on March 14 [2 favorites]


I'm making honey orange ginger pork tenderloin, myself.

And LOOK NEW CLEOLINDA RECAP.
posted by dogheart at 3:22 PM on March 14


I just finished watching The Hunt to get my Mads fix. Holy crap that was amazing.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:49 PM on March 14


COMPETATIVE SHIRT BUTTONING
posted by The Whelk at 7:05 PM on March 14


"sounds like a suoervillian" snort.
posted by The Whelk at 7:08 PM on March 14


GIVE EM THE OLD RAZZLE DAZZLE
posted by The Whelk at 7:11 PM on March 14


Hannibal is wearing THE BEST SUIT AND TIE.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:12 PM on March 14


Also, I wish our federal courthouses had arts and crafts style windows.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:12 PM on March 14


Will is laying all these little traps, for the wolf, wolf trap.
posted by The Whelk at 7:20 PM on March 14


FREDDIE
posted by The Whelk at 7:22 PM on March 14


She has been watching those episodes of ST:TNG in which Riker solves holodeck mysteries.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:24 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Freddie Lounds and the film noir lighting
posted by The Whelk at 7:24 PM on March 14


WTF
posted by The Whelk at 7:26 PM on March 14


Fuller keeps tweeting all the Hannibal suits he owns, it's adorable.
posted by The Whelk at 7:29 PM on March 14


Was that a spade in the very cool tie? Perhaps a sly nod to Le Chiffre?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:31 PM on March 14


Friends help you move, real friends frame you for murder then create reasonable doubt that you did it
posted by The Whelk at 7:32 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Scott Thompson for the win!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:32 PM on March 14


JIMMY PRICE IS THE VOICE OF REASON
posted by The Whelk at 7:32 PM on March 14


How much more sneering can there be in this examination of Chilton? NONE MORE.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:34 PM on March 14


If Chilton were projecting any more they'd have to conduct the trial in an IMAX theatre.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:37 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]


dear god could Hannibal be more of a big wet skull about Will here? JUST LIE AND THEN WE CAN BE TOGETHER FOOOOREVER.

This isn't even subtext,like it doesn't make any sense unless Hannibal is all "oppos, I fucked up framing you, hiw about I invent another killer so YIU get off and we can be together forever my honey bunch graham cracker?"
posted by The Whelk at 7:43 PM on March 14


Meanwhile Will is all this is super gross but I'm gonna go along with it cause then I can be not in jail and KILL YOU .
posted by The Whelk at 7:43 PM on March 14


Chilton, or the actor rather, is killing it, I love to hate him.
posted by The Whelk at 7:44 PM on March 14 [3 favorites]


I'm so glad I watched The Hunt earlier because I better appreciate how Mads acts with every single muscle in his face.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:45 PM on March 14


Tops of skulls are great substitutions for actual bread bowls.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:52 PM on March 14


um okay so that's not a vision or metaphor


Eep
posted by The Whelk at 7:54 PM on March 14


He wants to spoon Will.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:58 PM on March 14


Feeling pretty certain Beverly gets et next week. :( :( :(
posted by sparkletone at 8:00 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Quick mistrial, didn't see that coming. Or how. Duh.
posted by localroger at 8:02 PM on March 14


Jesus there's no more subtlety at ALL with the hannigram. (Not that I'm complaining. Just, lol.)

I cannot even right now.
posted by dogheart at 8:20 PM on March 14


THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF SUBTLE
posted by The Whelk at 8:24 PM on March 14


If you can't be with the one you love, frame them for murder and put them in a cage so you can love the one you're with.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:26 PM on March 14


Sgwitty swag it's a helpful stag
posted by The Whelk at 8:30 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Jesus there's no more subtlety at ALL with the hannigram.

Look at this way: People who want to recut the show into a rom-com trailer have it EVEN EASIER now.
posted by sparkletone at 8:33 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Stags seem to fare way better in this show than in Game of Thrones.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:33 PM on March 14


Fueller said he was worried he'd lose viewers in episode three cause it's kind of a "checking in with everyone, setting the table" before the NONSTOP BLOODBATH OF EPISODES FOUR-SIX.

someone hold me I'm scared.
posted by The Whelk at 8:35 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Dear Internets: If you could please do a Hannibal poster with the RomCom lean, that would be awesome.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:35 PM on March 14


We can call it Desserts First.
posted by The Whelk at 8:37 PM on March 14


Not "Just Desserts"?
posted by sparkletone at 8:38 PM on March 14


As I said before, in this world serial murder is like car racing is in Speed Racer, just a thing lots of enthusiastic people do, sometimes to the death, and sometimes (maybe even always) extralegally. Nobody marvels at the spectacle of the judge hanged with brain and heart in pans of the scales of Justice. It's just another murder scene for these guys.
posted by localroger at 8:39 PM on March 14


Dear Internets: If you could please do a Hannibal poster with the RomCom lean, that would be awesome.

My friend, are you on tumblr?
posted by dogheart at 8:40 PM on March 14


Because sometimes people look for love and find their hearts in all the wrong places.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:40 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


...and find their hearts in all the wrong places.

And their brains.
posted by localroger at 8:41 PM on March 14


He's a serious psychopath. He's a sassy sociopath. When they get together it's MURDER.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:48 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Yeah in the operatic hothouse world of Harris novels, which helped create the whole damn FBI-Occult Killer genre THING, elaborate metaphorical serial killings are just a thing that happens, like how no one in a fairy tale gets freaked out when animals start to talk. It's just the rules of the world they live in.
posted by The Whelk at 8:52 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


That would explain ALL THE MISSING JURORS.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:52 PM on March 14


I'm so used to legal drams bending and breaking the rules of a courtroom case that none of this even phases me.

Like I assume the judge saying I'll allow it was just a tacit admission that fact.

Plus, as I said before, I like Will's lawyer and I kind of expected him to break into a GIVEM THE OLD RAZZLE DAZZLE number there.

Plus he's kinda cute in an oily way.

I like square jaws sue me.
posted by The Whelk at 8:56 PM on March 14


Fueller said he was worried he'd lose viewers in episode three cause it's kind of a "checking in with everyone, setting the table" before the NONSTOP BLOODBATH OF EPISODES FOUR-SIX.

I was fine with tonight but Sepinwall was seriously frosty.

Fuller will drink his tears next week, and ours as well....
posted by sparkletone at 8:57 PM on March 14


At least it might give Jimmy Price an opportunity to use his Acme Stool Sample Kit.
posted by Dr. Zira at 9:04 PM on March 14


My dash right now on tumblr is about 40% the same GIF of Hannibal zipping himself up...
posted by sparkletone at 9:09 PM on March 14


That was literally what we heard, right? I did a double take.
posted by The Whelk at 9:19 PM on March 14


West coast feed happening now.
That smirk from Hannibal when the prosecutor describes Will as the smartest person in the room!
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:13 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


Ohhhh that suit and tie...want!
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:14 PM on March 14


The heavy weave in Hannibal's dress shirt is very similar to the shirt I had made for me and I don't know how to feel about that.
posted by The Whelk at 10:15 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


If I become a murderous cannibal you guys would stop me, right?
posted by The Whelk at 10:17 PM on March 14


Ehhhhhhhh..yes?
But not until you've made haggis of a rude Scotsman. Because...reasons.
On a completely unrelated note: are you equipped to make sausage ?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:24 PM on March 14


I ...can.
posted by The Whelk at 10:28 PM on March 14


I'm still upset that I didn't get to keep my wisdom teeth when they came out to make into cufflinks.
posted by The Whelk at 10:30 PM on March 14 [1 favorite]


But I also have those flower cufflinks made from animal bone. Or the silver antler pin. Or the silk peacock feather pattern tie, or the golden bee lapel pin.


Eep.
posted by The Whelk at 10:38 PM on March 14


Hannibal just had to try the old "Let's lie about this bad thing together WINK WINK" trick again.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:07 PM on March 14


The copycat: is it Hannibal, or one of Hannibal's other patients? In this week's AV Club thing, Fuller deliberately avoids saying it is Hannibal.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:22 PM on March 14


Gideon is still out there.
posted by The Whelk at 8:55 AM on March 15


Fuller sent the Tweet yesterday about the stag being a clue about the identity of the killer, so I rewatched the scene. I think it's significant that the stag walks the other way, then Will turns around and there is Hannibal pointing at his cell. I interpreted that as the killler and Hannibal are separate. Plus, I think Hannibal would be too obvious, and if this is all part of his strategy to spring Will, he undermined it with his "St. Peter" line to Jack in which tel told Jack he didn't think it was Will.

Gideon is probably the best bet, especially since I heard some talk about Eddie Izzard being in Season 2. He's smart enough to be able to figure out how to get access to the courtroom and Will's knife.
posted by Dr. Zira at 2:57 PM on March 15


So guys today I went into an art glass showroom and there was gentle barquoe music playing and LIFE SIZED REPLLICAS OF HUMAN BONES MADE OF GLASS complete with some glass antlers and sealift.

But yes, huge glass skulls.

This show is tarting to follow me around....
posted by The Whelk at 3:03 PM on March 15


Wait, am I totally misremembering? I thought Will killed Gideon in season 1.
posted by aldurtregi at 3:12 PM on March 15


Gideon was left for dead but we don't see him die, word of god is that Izzard is returning.
posted by The Whelk at 3:16 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]


This show is tarting

Mmm... tart.
posted by homunculus at 3:17 PM on March 15


Mmm... tart.

Well as much as I like it I certainly wouldn't describe it as sweet.
posted by localroger at 5:15 PM on March 15


There are savory tarts, even those with meat.
posted by The Whelk at 5:17 PM on March 15


I know it's been said that Izzard is returning, but I don't think that necessarily means that Gideon is alive. And surely he can't be on the run? If Will didn't kill him, he did shoot him right? In the head?

Does it make sense if it's Mason Verger?
posted by crossoverman at 5:44 PM on March 15


Based on my feverish recollection of casting and blink and you'll miss it camera lingers, I think it's the orderly we see in episode one and he turns out to be an actual, for real copy-cat/Shrike fan boy like Gideon. ( although Gideon was a ...fake copy? His character is so interesting to the themes of the show, his off-brand cut-rate Lecter made by Chilton.)
posted by The Whelk at 5:48 PM on March 15 [1 favorite]


Ratings up 13% this week.
posted by crossoverman at 6:05 PM on March 15


Well fuck me gently with a chainsaw. (Not you, Hannibal, sit down.)

They're starting to make it look like genuine Hannigram and fake/pretend Willana, here.

But talk about making yourself vulnerable, Hanni, telling Will in so many words that the latest murder is a love poem, ooh er. IT'S CANON. It's canon, it is.

But like for fuck's sake, how many people does Hannibal have to kill in detail to convince anyone that not-Will did it? Like, Will is apparently the only other person for miles around with an IQ higher than 7. Fuck, no wonder they're both so lonely. It all makes sense now.

Will now has two people madly in love with him and desperate to get him out of jail... Hannibal so they can be murder husbands, Alana so that she can say "actually, give me some more time to think about it cos you're looking too unstable for my tastes today". Still pissed off about that, siding with Hannibal out of spite.

Also i forgot the very important point i was about to make.

Alana is still pretty much wearing red in every scene.
posted by tel3path at 7:22 PM on March 15 [2 favorites]


I think that the killer(s) is Hannibal, but if the/a killer is not Hannibal, it's Zeller.

He keeps insisting on Will's guilt, so he looks like he can't have the same intent as the killer, which is to exonerate Will. He also HAD ALL THE INFORMATION.
posted by tel3path at 7:28 PM on March 15


Oh yes the twinge of vulnerabilty from Hanni when Will mentioned Abigail

that is a huge facial movement, coming from Mikkelsen, and it didn't look like Hanni was faking it.

Aw, see, he can't be a psychopath cos he has FEELINGS. The remorselessly murdering people and the endless, reflexive manipulation of everyone all the time is, like, as nothing next to the fact that he had this little twinge of fleeting emotion.
posted by tel3path at 7:35 PM on March 15


Jeez where are you people, I've been resurfaced for literally minutes already.

Are you all asleep? At this hour, when the devil threatens to triumph over our precious honey-kissed Teddy Graham, YOU SLEEP? The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, I see.
posted by tel3path at 7:38 PM on March 15


So Hannibal is Hanni now? When did we get on a first-two-syllable basis?
posted by localroger at 7:46 PM on March 15


Since the keyboard on ios7 decided to play silly buggers with me.
posted by tel3path at 8:20 PM on March 15


The hanging of the judge was a direct homage to Lecter's display of the murdered Tennessee deputy sheriff (state trooper?) when he escaped custody in Silence of the Lambs. It has to be Hannibal on a mission to save Will from the utter stupidity of, well, everyone else.
posted by maggieb at 8:28 PM on March 15 [3 favorites]


You know, the judge, if it was Hannibal, he'd have killed him a lot more.

Or not, maybe he didn't have time.

But yeah, orderly, because casting and because the timing could be coincidental and the orderly could be pissed off over any number of things.
posted by tel3path at 8:29 PM on March 15


But Hannibal would've known precisely how to kill the bailiff. Now, maybe he did it slightly wrong on purpose. Or maybe he prodded someone else into doing it. He does enjoy prodding at people and seeing if something amusing happens.

I thought the orderly might be Barney, the orderly who ends up being chummy with Hannibal when he's incarcerated.

If the orderly is the copycat, how the heck is Chilton going to keep his job? Worst. Judgement. Of. Character. Ever.
posted by lovecrafty at 9:30 PM on March 15


My suspicion is that hospitals for the criminally insane do not attract the best and brightest candidates in hospital administration.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:39 PM on March 15


I prefer Ceolinda's term

THE BALTIMORE STATE DUNGEON FOR THE CRIMINALLY FASCINATING
posted by The Whelk at 12:11 AM on March 16 [3 favorites]


So Hannibal is Hanni now? When did we get on a first-two-syllable basis?

Because tumblr.
posted by sparkletone at 1:28 AM on March 16


Chilton: Worst. Judgement. Of. Character. Ever.

Well that about describes Chilton as he's portrayed in the novels.
posted by localroger at 6:19 AM on March 16


OMG Raul Esparza though.

The CASTING on this show. Is there anybody on it who doesn't light up the screen with the brilliance of a thousand suns?
posted by tel3path at 7:50 AM on March 16 [1 favorite]


The only actor on the show I thought was a little flat was Park playing Katz back in Season one but she's turned it around completely now that she has like, lines and things to do. Her shift into a Clarice role is one of the more unexpectedly delightful things this season so far.


So of course she's going to be brutally murder stabbed.
posted by The Whelk at 8:24 AM on March 16


I dread to think what's coming next.
posted by tel3path at 8:55 AM on March 16


"Hello Will, I've killed literally every single person in the Baltimore area, will you love me now?"

"No."

*sad cannibal noises*
posted by The Whelk at 9:03 AM on March 16 [2 favorites]


I also hope we see more of Will's lawyer cause I like his oily "Hey now see here kid you gotta get wise see its all show business see?" patter.

Plus, there is no way his real name is Braverman. His parents are not Mr. And Mrs. Braverman. He chose that name.
posted by The Whelk at 9:46 AM on March 16


I keep thinking it's an anagram
posted by tel3path at 10:07 AM on March 16


Rev! Bra man!
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:44 AM on March 16


raven, ear, enabler, deer, doe, eland...
posted by tel3path at 1:09 PM on March 16


I just wanna see the dude go up against Saul Goodman.

(Also, holy shit, you guys, I found super-cheap pork jowl, and I don't know why it was super-cheap, because it was the best thing I've ever put in my face. I wouldn't even have bought it, but I remembered somewhere Hannibal was saying something about how the cheeks are the best part of any animal. Like this was in with the scrapple and the chicken livers, my god. FACE BACON. 10/10 WOULD RECOMMEND.)
posted by dogheart at 2:41 PM on March 16


Yep, gaunciale is pretty amazing. Cow cheek/salvia glands make amazing tacos too.
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on March 16


Dude I am never buying presliced bacon ever again.

Also, uh. It's probably a wee bit early to be talking about this, but-- someone's going to make another Hannibal FPP when this one times out, right? Because I have read some spoilers-- official ones, even!-- that I shall not mention here, but. We are going to need a place to flail.
posted by dogheart at 3:04 PM on March 16


"Hannibal without people" the video is pretty sweet, plus I'm sure more stuff will appear worthy of postage.
posted by The Whelk at 3:10 PM on March 16


Yeah I kinda figured. God, there was so much stuff I could have put in that post. The meta on tumblr alone would merit a megapost.

Look, you really, really, do not want to click this because it has CRAZY SPOILERS. CRAZY. JESUS CHRIST THE SPOILERS. Don't do it. But I felt obligated to like. Give you the option. And because screaming needs company.
posted by dogheart at 3:25 PM on March 16 [3 favorites]


Uuuuugh I have no willpower someone put me in a straight jacket
posted by The Whelk at 3:31 PM on March 16 [1 favorite]


DON'T DO THE THING

you did the thing, didn't you?
posted by dogheart at 3:33 PM on March 16


I'm totally Galadreiling over that link
posted by The Whelk at 3:34 PM on March 16


I did hold off for like two whole days on posting it to the thread.

I only hunted it down because I have an unhealthy amount of emotional investment in this show and needed to prepare myself.
posted by dogheart at 3:40 PM on March 16


I remembered somewhere Hannibal was saying something about how the cheeks are the best part of any animal

From Hannibal Rising. It's actually advice he was given by a butcher, taken to heart and applied.
posted by localroger at 4:19 PM on March 16 [1 favorite]


Hannibaliberals.
posted by homunculus at 5:04 PM on March 16


The show has ALLREADY corrupted my dress and cooking sense, why not a political philosophy around manners, fine dining, and cannibalism?
posted by The Whelk at 5:14 PM on March 16


AAAAAARGH! The Link. IT BURNS!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:40 PM on March 16


The show has ALLREADY corrupted my dress and cooking sense

Tell me about it. I bought this tie tonight. I saw it while looking for something else and was like, oh my god Hannibal would approve. My second thought was of finding an excuse to share it here.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 8:04 PM on March 16


CRAZY. JESUS CHRIST THE SPOILERS.

Whoa, I didn't see that coming.
posted by homunculus at 8:20 PM on March 16


Why did I read that link? Why?
posted by echolalia67 at 8:25 PM on March 16





i am so, so sorry.
posted by dogheart at 8:54 PM on March 16


OH GOD I READ THE SPOILER LINK.

OH WOW. I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING.
posted by crossoverman at 9:20 PM on March 16


I never feel guilty linking anything.
posted by homunculus at 9:23 PM on March 16 [5 favorites]


What kills me?

That is what they don't mind telling us.
posted by dogheart at 9:26 PM on March 16 [1 favorite]


(DO NOT DISCUSS SPOILER LINK HERE pls thx. Prefer to remain unspoiled.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:08 PM on March 16 [4 favorites]


I feel so pure and light having opened the link in another tab and then closed it without really looking.

Somehow tumblr hasn't spoiled me either.
posted by sparkletone at 10:25 PM on March 16 [1 favorite]


Please don't say anything people I only have so much strength.
posted by The Whelk at 10:39 PM on March 16


Tell me about it. I bought this tie tonight. I saw it while looking for something else and was like, oh my god Hannibal would approve. My second thought was of finding an excuse to share it here.

Nice! Good texture, espially if used with a dark grey jacket over a light grey shirt. It's actually slightly spare pattern wise so you could get away with more pattern elsewhere in the outfit.

I feel like I should start a role playing tumblr account where people can submit pictures on how to get the best Fancy Cannibal Style.
posted by The Whelk at 10:43 PM on March 16 [1 favorite]


Man, I'd follow the hell out of that. I still need to find a good Alana scarf-- like I have a bunch of other components, and I think that is the one thing that's missing. Which is silly, because I have a shitton of scarves. But none of them say Alana to me.
posted by dogheart at 11:07 PM on March 16


They need to be the kind of crazy silk, marbled patterned thing like men's ties where doing in England in the 70s - like totally look like the interior of a Florentine marbled book.

Also be insanely long.
posted by The Whelk at 11:22 PM on March 16


Not looking at no spoilers.

Saw the trailer for next week, but I guess that's not what you're talking about.
posted by tel3path at 2:25 AM on March 17


...is it?
posted by tel3path at 3:53 AM on March 17


No, the spoiler link we're talking about relates to episode 2x06.
posted by crossoverman at 4:11 AM on March 17


The first rule of spoiler link is DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPOILER LINK.
posted by localroger at 5:26 AM on March 17


On a fashn note. I hate Jack's ties. He dresses in a uniform at all time but I know exactly where he gets his ties, those are Van Husen out of season sale ties, most likely from the SF outlet store where YIU can literally buy a box of them for like 30 bucks.

Also they're solid geometrics rather than swirling pasileys. Jack is a square, a rube, etc.

Wait this Hannibal Fashion Advice Tumbr needs a name ...and some posts to prime the pump....
posted by The Whelk at 8:41 AM on March 17


Wait this Hannibal Fashion Advice Tumbr needs a name

'fancycannibal' would appear to already be taken.
Perhaps 'fancylikehannibal' or 'tasteofhannibal'(though that sounds like it should be about food)?
Maybe something with 'stag' or 'wendigo' in it?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 9:39 AM on March 17


Ask A Fashion Stag?
posted by The Whelk at 9:51 AM on March 17


"Pretty Fly For A Cannibal Guy"? "Cannibal Eye For The Fashionable Necktie"?
posted by echolalia67 at 9:58 AM on March 17


Isn't Fashion Stag the emblem that is embroidered onto Ralph Lauren polo knockoff golf shirts?
posted by Dr. Zira at 10:48 AM on March 17


"Fashionibal"?
posted by lovecrafty at 10:49 AM on March 17 [2 favorites]


DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPOILER LINK

IN A MOMENT OF WEAKNESS, I CLICKED ON SPOILER LINK AND NOW MY BRAIN IS FULL OF FUCK.
posted by sparkletone at 11:37 AM on March 17


IT PUTS THE SPOILER IN THE BASKET OR ELSE IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:38 AM on March 17 [2 favorites]


Don't let those spoilers eat you from the inside out. Put it in the thread, just rot13 it first.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:45 AM on March 17 [1 favorite]


Put it in the thread, just rot13 it first.

Enh. It's not eating me from the inside out, really. I'm much more concerned about someone deciding to eat me from the outside in.

(Also, while I get why it happens I don't like when threads become rot13 fests. I'm okay with waiting a few weeks before discussing the revelation contained in the spoiler-y link.)
posted by sparkletone at 1:44 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]


I like Fashionibal. Now to get some questions submitted ( not just advice for Hannibsl, Will! Alana! Jack reluctantly! Etc.)
posted by The Whelk at 2:21 PM on March 17


Please put a pic of a Fashion Stag somewhere on the Tumblr or bear the wrath of a very well dressed wendigo.
posted by Dr. Zira at 2:33 PM on March 17


I might make a little logo of the ravenstag in a tie and hat when I get home and not trying to make a blog from my phone.
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on March 17


Oh and another vote not to rot 13 the thread, it just ..makes my eyes cross.
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on March 17


I might make a little logo of the ravenstag in a tie and hat

Bully!

Oh and another vote not to rot 13 the thread, it just ..makes my eyes cross.

Yeah, I'm not a fan either, I just thought I'd throw it out there if the horrible spoilers were just burning people up not to talk about.
I shant suggest it again :-)
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 2:55 PM on March 17


I'm not sure there's much to say about it other than HOLY FUCK right now anyway.
posted by crossoverman at 3:15 PM on March 17


Yeah, no, I'm kind of really regretting posting the damned thing. Moment of weakness. Sorry, y'all.

If I must be devoured for my sins, I trust you will at least make sure I'm delicious.
posted by dogheart at 4:33 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]


I trust you will at least make sure I'm delicious

Delicious to the taste and eyes: the plating will be art.


I'm uncomfortable now. That's a good sign, yeah?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 4:40 PM on March 17 [1 favorite]


I've been swanning around New Orleans eating at the finest places and also at places with lots of rabbit and Between that and the FLOATING GLASS SKULLS ON DISPLAY I couldn't help but think hiw ...Lectery it was.

I mean if you need an American town for him to hide in cause you can't get Florence.....
posted by The Whelk at 5:20 PM on March 17


Brian tweeted about a concept meeting for the finale today.

The word bloodbath was used repeatedly. :(
posted by sparkletone at 5:34 PM on March 17


He loves to watch us squirm.
posted by The Whelk at 5:35 PM on March 17


and the FLOATING GLASS SKULLS ON DISPLAY

O HAI welcome to our fair burg we do have a bit of history. We no longer have a streetcar named Desire but we do have a bus, and we have another bus up Canal Street to the single-word destination CEMETERIES. Above-ground cemeteries, natch, where it's quite likely you will find open crypts as they are very old and not well maintained.

When some show about wires was all the rage it was often pointed out that there are a lot of close parallels between New Orleans and Baltimore. I think NOLA would have made a great home for Hannibal but as a story setting it would have been too over the top. Hannibal in a city with an historic French Quarter, world-famous Bourbon Street, a history of ghosts, voodoo, and the slave trade, and THE FOOD would just be too much.
posted by localroger at 7:53 PM on March 17


The word bloodbath was used repeatedly.

FIRST RULE OF SPOILER POST ETC.
posted by localroger at 7:56 PM on March 17


Oh god now I am brainfixing on Hannibal as drawn by Bunny Matthews in Vic 'n Nat'ly style preparing to chow down on a foot-long NOT OYSTER NO THEY ARE NOT FUCKING OYSTERS Poboy.
posted by localroger at 8:00 PM on March 17


Modern Hannibal would split his time between the Bywater and the Garden Distrinct of course, cutting edge cuisine and historical elegance.
posted by The Whelk at 8:04 PM on March 17


I dunno. I kind of see Hannibal living in Mid-City off Broad. That would be a rich feeding ground but with lots of historic import. I guess he is portrayed as kind of a uptown mansion guy in the series but from the novels I saw him as the kind of downtown pragmatist who wouldn't waste money on appearances. In Hannibal he goes to a redneck gun show FFS. There are lots of historic neighborhoods in New Orleans. You can get the ambience a lot cheaper than in the mansion districts.

(Though you can also find inexpensive slum blocks in the mansion districts, I don't think that's how our *cough* Hanni *cough* would roll. He would go for the gold nugget in a dross landscape, not the dross pit in an otherwise gold neighborhood.)
posted by localroger at 8:23 PM on March 17


Hannibal at the Mid-City Rock and Bowl.

Imagine it.

I bet he would love its atavistic intensity.
posted by The Whelk at 8:41 PM on March 17


(for self serving purposes I want Hannibal showing up to strip karaoke at the Always Lounge cause, yes he would love that. It's so mannered and yet so animalistic.)
posted by The Whelk at 8:43 PM on March 17


• Hannibal got #stoolsample to trend worldwide for an hour. Love the levity Scott Thompson and Aaron Abrams bring. And that ever-so-slightly perturbed Hannibal reaction shot. Yeah, smart guy, bet you didn't think about ​that​. Covering your tracks and tampering with evidence could be messier than expected.
posted by homunculus at 12:48 AM on March 18


Raúl Esparza is fantastic in so many things and it is great to see him as Chilton. He does slimy very well, doing so on Broadway over the past few years as Bernard Nightingale in a great Arcadia and as Jonas Nightingale (unrelated) carrying the problematic Leap of Faith the musical (warning: disco ball jacket).
posted by mountmccabe at 7:47 AM on March 18


The third episode was one of the weaker of the series thus far but it does move the overall story forward. Beverly had good looks on her face when Hannibal was talking about the murder presentations. This does not bode well for her, though.
posted by mountmccabe at 7:59 AM on March 18


Wail! It's still only Tuesday! I just can't cope anymore!!!
posted by tel3path at 8:01 AM on March 18


The only answer is to kidnap people until we can see the entire season in one glorious, gluttonous binge.
posted by The Whelk at 8:06 AM on March 18


Season two in a nutshell so far.
posted by The Whelk at 8:14 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]


This and Legend of Korra season 2 are the only things I've watched as it airs in a long. long time. It really is a different way of experiencing a show, having all this time to stew over it.

I have to hold back this week a little as I am going to miss it on NBC but I am seeing an opera about evil and death so I think Hannibal would approve.
posted by mountmccabe at 8:15 AM on March 18


Though maybe that is not the best standard to work from.
posted by mountmccabe at 8:16 AM on March 18


Mccabe, just don't hassle the handsome strange during intermission unless you want your neck snapped.
posted by The Whelk at 8:18 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]


Hannibal is like a three-year-old who pulled his teddy bear apart limb from limb and now is nonplussed at the lack of structural integrity of the teddy bear.
posted by tel3path at 8:21 AM on March 18


"I had to frame you for murder to save myself but can we still be friends y/n?"
posted by The Whelk at 8:23 AM on March 18


"And don't say Hannibal"

WHY THE FUCK NOT

LIKE OH, SORRY, AM I PERSEVERATING ON THIS ONE TOPIC IN AN ASPIE KIND OF WAY? OH EXCUSE ME, THE THOUGHT OF THE AS YET UNIMAGINED GRUESOMENESS OF THE MORTAL PERIL YOU COLLECTIVELY FACE JUST HAS THIS WAY OF GRIPPING MY MIND. EXCUUUUUUUSE ME FOR BORING YOU.

Next week: the least satisfying "i told you so" in TV history.
posted by tel3path at 8:25 AM on March 18


Next week: the least satisfying "i told you so" in TV history.

There's been a lot made in blurbs about the show about how Mikkelsen's performance is built out of micro-expressions and David Slade having to tell him to not be quite so subtle all the time, but god damn if the flash in the most recent commercial to the first breakfast Will and Hannibal share and the little twitch of Madds' cheek when he puts the first bite of "sausage" in his mouth isn't perfect (even knowing the whole time what that food was and kind of assuming that might not be how they cut it in the show itself).

I say this without knowing for sure I swear but: I'm pretty sure convincing Beverly of this is going to get her et. :( My only hope is that I was wrong about Bedelia, so maybe I will be wrong again.
posted by sparkletone at 12:14 PM on March 18


Hugh Dancy is on Jimmy Fallon tonight. Fallon's twitter account says he's playing a game with him and Lena Dunham. My immediate assumption is the game is called, "Is It People?"
posted by sparkletone at 12:16 PM on March 18


Yeah, I keep reading about how Will better not get Bev killed and how he's gonna feel about it.

As if she's any safer the way things are now.
posted by tel3path at 12:41 PM on March 18


So far the most popular thing I have ever posted to tumblr is " If you're Hannibal and you know it, frame Will Graham."
posted by The Whelk at 4:18 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]


Forget it, Jake, it's tumblr.
posted by dogheart at 5:52 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]


If you're the Ripper and you know it, take a lung.
If you're the Ripper and you know it, take a lung.
If you're the Ripper and you know it, the empath will surely blow it,
so frame the sorry fucker and you're done.


....


That didn't turn out quite how I expected it to.
posted by sparkletone at 8:30 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]


Guys Hugh Dancy doesn't know the American expression "to cut the cheese".
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on March 18


HE AND FALLON MADE ROB FORD FACE.

IT WAS THE BEST.

I CAN'T WAIT TO REFRESH TUMBLR IN ABOUT TWENTY MINUTES.

(No seriously this is going to be a gold mine for people making Hannibal crack.)
posted by sparkletone at 9:23 PM on March 18


I just see a dodge meme thing

"Hannibal stahp no very much people do not want "
posted by The Whelk at 9:25 PM on March 18


Meanwhile...
posted by sparkletone at 9:27 PM on March 18


The seeds have been sown.
posted by sparkletone at 9:35 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]


Mean Cannibals
posted by The Whelk at 9:59 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]


So, guys, did anyone notice that Will and Hannibal have the same color ties for court? Red and grey? (also, more MURDER TIE appearances )
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]


Oh yes, he'll try to warn her, and will she listen? She will not.
posted by tel3path at 10:59 AM on March 19


What does it say about me that I would very seriously consider buying a shirt with this on it...
posted by sparkletone at 11:56 AM on March 19


I'm trying, and failing, to imagine wearing that tshirt to work.
posted by tel3path at 12:00 PM on March 19


...yeah, I'd wear that.
posted by dogheart at 12:18 PM on March 19


oh god what have I done
posted by The Whelk at 12:57 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]


You are not alone. I'd have had literally the same thought.
posted by sparkletone at 1:10 PM on March 20


what has this show done to us
posted by The Whelk at 1:16 PM on March 20


uhhh can we talk about these promotional photos cause I feel like I'M BEING TROLLED.
posted by The Whelk at 1:26 PM on March 20


Is that Hannibal's Christmas outfit?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:36 PM on March 20


THERE SHOULD NOT BE TOUCHING
posted by The Whelk at 1:37 PM on March 20


A Matter OF Taste: Episode 3 podcast.

Looots of spoler-y speculation
posted by The Whelk at 1:47 PM on March 20


"Hannibal is just trying to get Will off...."

PHRASING.

posted by The Whelk at 1:55 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]


Touching, hell. THEY ARE BOTH IN RED OH MY GOD.

my shiiiip! my beautiful fucked-up ship! :DDD
posted by dogheart at 2:27 PM on March 20


OH MY FUCKING GOD THERE IS A BEDELIA/HANNIBAL DISNEY SONG
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]


NO, ALANA, NO. YOU NEVER PICK THE CHARMING PERSON OVER THE ADORABLE ONE WHO'S PROBABLY AUTISTIC.

THE LATTER WILL FOLLOW YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH. THE FORMER WILL FEED YOU HIS PREVIOUS LOVERS JUST AS YOU WILL BE FED TO THE NEXT ONE.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO.

(in that "nuuuuuu" tone I mentioned previously of course.)

All that said, jesus, does Caroline Dhavernas look dynamite in that dress.
posted by sparkletone at 3:43 PM on March 20 [3 favorites]


I want Hannibal to be pulling the fake boyfriend move in Alana just as Will is pulling the fake boyfriend thing on Hannibal. I want the most fucked up love triangle ever.

These photos ONLY ENCOURAGE THESE FEELINGS.
posted by The Whelk at 3:45 PM on March 20 [1 favorite]


I wish that were true, Whelk, but Hannibal isn't touching Will or leering at him at all.

But maybe that's for show. HE TOLD WILL HE LOVED HIM LAST WEEK and we all know that to Hannibal, love means never having to say "oh all right then I'll unchain you and let you down from the attic"
posted by tel3path at 3:50 AM on March 21


DON'T CRAP OUT ON US, FULLER. YOU'VE BEEN SAYING HANNIGRAM ISN'T LITERALLY ROMANTIC FROM THE BEGINNING BUT LET'S HOPE HANNIBAL DIDN'T GET THAT MEMO

and I want the gun scene to be because Alana discovered Hannibal cheating with Will and not because she's at all perturbed by finding body parts around the house
posted by tel3path at 3:55 AM on March 21


you know what

Now that his other template for social interaction has FLED FOR HER LIFE, Hannibal will have to keep Will around in order to train himself to become everything Alana ever wanted: a "stable" version of Will.

Hannibal has the stability, oh yes he does. Why even when (he) killed that nurse, his heart rate didn't go over 85. The rest should be plain sailing. He just needs a reference implementation to work from.
posted by tel3path at 5:51 AM on March 21 [1 favorite]


admit it, we all thought it
posted by The Whelk at 8:23 AM on March 21


oh please
oh please
oh please
If I don't get actual, genuine fake Hannigram (guaranteed not real) I will be forever dissatisfied

If I do get it, we will all be looking at the events of Red Dragon through new eyes. Random, petty spite aimed at someone who was just passing through? No, REVENGE upon the man who BROKE WHATEVER HE HAS INSTEAD OF A HEART

I think he probably has one of those little desktop fridges where his heart would be.
posted by tel3path at 8:28 AM on March 21


can we talk about who the admirer is cause I thought it was my own theory but it turns out be the SUPER POPULAR ONE
posted by The Whelk at 8:30 AM on March 21


Wait what? I think it's about time for me to submerge until I've seen tonight's episode.

Goodbye friends I am gone, don't let the vampires bite
posted by tel3path at 8:33 AM on March 21


I think the thing to remember is ....we're planning for a seven season structure so you can pull future characters in sooner.
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 AM on March 21


Happy Friday, y'all.
posted by sparkletone at 9:10 AM on March 21


can we talk about who the admirer is

My current half-assed theory is that it's Mason Verger whom we're meeting later in the season? I have no real basis for this though.
posted by sparkletone at 9:23 AM on March 21


Noooo it's more elegant and obvious at the same time ( if my theory is correct)
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 AM on March 21


(the sticking point of evidence in the admirer/copy cat Best Of tableau is the gun ...who else in the Hannibalverse kills with a gun? And we've allready been to be of his crime scenes before ....)
posted by The Whelk at 9:28 AM on March 21


Ooohhhhh. I don't know why that particular possibility hadn't occurred to me yet. My recollection is that that person kills entire families though? The other killing by that person that we've seen fits that bill. But then also the book version of that character definitely reads Lounds' work, so that would explain why they've heard of Will Graham and thinks he's the sort of person who would enjoy that kind of fan mail.
posted by sparkletone at 9:49 AM on March 21


He's an ..avid fan and he thinks Will is the Ripper, whose works he adores.
posted by The Whelk at 9:58 AM on March 21


But we would have heard about Lee Pace or David Tennant being cast, and I really don't think Fuller would put anyone else in the role. I could be totally off base on that, however.
posted by dogheart at 11:58 AM on March 21


I'm not sure Dolarhyde has to appear on screen for it to be clear to the audience who the admirer is.

As for those two names, I know Fuller's said he'd love to have both on the show but there were availability issues. I really would love to see Party King Thranduil showing up as a murder wizard though.
posted by sparkletone at 12:19 PM on March 21


Here's the thing, it's pretty clear they're ready to go as if the seven season plan was fait accompli, there's no hedging or trying to wrap things up just in case. They're going full bore ahead and putting this stuff here cause its going to become important in future seasons and give the whole thing this elegant closed circle structure ( like Abigal's whole storyline). So even if Dolarhyde isn't on screen, he's still going to make his presence felt as this future menace we should all keep in the back of our mind is out there until he goes into full on Tooth Fairy mode.

I mean unless we're totally wrong but dear god it fits his M.O and fits the show's desire to dramatize things unsaid or unseen from the books.
posted by The Whelk at 1:11 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


( like, why bring in the Vergers now? Cause in the unseen timeline they would be involved around now and so they can become even more important in season six. It's the looong game of fixing the timeline of the novels, cause again, greatest fanwork ever.)
posted by The Whelk at 1:12 PM on March 21


I hope you're right. I want you to be right.

But I also wonder if he's not just pulling out all the stops now in case he doesn't have a chance to do it later. It's just-- Jesus he's usingso much stuff from the source material. Already. And yeah, if he actually gets to implement the seven season plan it should create delightful symmetry. Or he's going to have new ways to do shit, which I trust him to do well. I guess it's not mutually exclusive.

Agh five more hours. Friday has become the longest goddamn day.
posted by dogheart at 1:55 PM on March 21


( like, why bring in the Vergers now?)

This has been explicitly stated, by the way, in interviews. If they want to stick to "Hannibal did some effed up stuff to Mason when he was still practicing," we need to get a bit of them before we get into Hanni On the Lamb next season.

I'm actually very curious about how that'll play out, because I wonder how you make them relevant to the current situation and not this odd little side thing that doesn't seem to mean much now even though it will down the road.
posted by sparkletone at 2:05 PM on March 21


I still think Will ( or saintly Alana) is going to be somehow complicit in Awful Things Happening To Mason Verger cause things aren't awful enough for them.

Cause this is Dramatic Irony The Series, we need everything in place so when Will shows up in Lecter's cell at the start of the Tooth Fairy investigation he has DAMNED GOOD REASON to want to run screaming from the room and never look back.
posted by The Whelk at 2:50 PM on March 21


Sometime before the end of this season both Jame Gumb and the Vergers have to get to the business of dropping all their secrets on Hannibal. It's pretty clear from SOTL that Gumb lets Lecter know either directly or indirectly what he's doing, and Lecter is just dude you're doing that wrong. As for Mason, Lecter sees him as wasting the opportunity his fortune affords him playing stupid games instead of getting down to business. Margot he finds interesting and tries to help, but he knows she can never be a whole person while trapped in orbit around her brother.

It stands to reason that Hannibal's little joke on eurotrash wanna-be Mason might be his last statement before going on a run he suspects will be futile. Gumb might not be visible; he might just be hinted at, as he's uninteresting to Hannibal because "he just wants to rap." But the Vergers are too important to the events of Hannibal to let the opportunity for foreshadowing pass.
posted by localroger at 3:15 PM on March 21


Which is I think we've cast Professionally Upsetting Pretty Boy Micheal Pitt as Mason. He's so good at "Handsome but Insanely Fucked Up."
posted by The Whelk at 3:19 PM on March 21


It's pretty clear from SOTL that Gumb lets Lecter know either directly or indirectly what he's doing, and Lecter is just dude you're doing that wrong.

I do wonder if Fuller will introduce Gumb somehow, maybe without naming him.

It's interesting, because he specifically introduced a Benjamin Raspail analogue last year in Franklin Froideveaux - and his boyfriend Tobias looked like he could be the Gumb analogue. And then Hannibal killed them both.
posted by crossoverman at 3:36 PM on March 21


It's pretty clear from SOTL that Gumb lets Lecter know either directly or indirectly what he's doing, and Lecter is just dude you're doing that wrong

Gumb doesn't directly let Lecter know anything. Benjamin Raspail tells Lecter about the death of someone at the hands of Gumb. Raspail and Gumb were lovers. Lecter later figures out that Buffalo Bill and Gumb are the same person from ... I forget what exactly, either stuff he reads in the news or when he looks through the file Clarice gives him.

I'm not sure how much of that they want to or can do right now. Clarice and Gumb are the two big characters they don't have the rights to. If they get them later down the line and they want to show Raspail (either by that name or some other character serving the same function) telling Lecter stuff, they could just do it in flashback when they need to.
posted by sparkletone at 3:41 PM on March 21


Clarice and Gumb are the two big characters they don't have the rights to.

It just occured to me that dogheart's CRAZY SPOILER from upthread might include a clue as to how they plan to fill Clarice's shoes.
posted by homunculus at 4:35 PM on March 21


Right, it's been awhile since I read Red Dragon. Gumb drops enough hints on Lecter to let him know he's another member of the Baltimore Art Murder Association, but he's vague to protect himself ("he just wanted to rap") and it's Raspail who provides the details that let Lecter connect Gumb to Buffalo Bill, and THAT's why he knows it will stir beaucoup shit if he sends Clarice to Raspail's storage unit.

Which means Raspail needs to be in therapy soon, too.
posted by localroger at 4:36 PM on March 21


IF YOU TALK ABOUT SPOILER LINK I WILL USE THESE SHEARS TO CASTRATE YOU. And then I will enjoy a delicious prairie oyster appetizer.
posted by localroger at 4:48 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


The most important question around this time on Friday's now... What is this week's Fancy Cannibal feast? Last week was just some simple stuff I made for myself. Definitely getting delivery tonight, but a grubhub search for "people" turned up nothing. :(
posted by sparkletone at 4:53 PM on March 21


WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPOILER LINK.

Oh god I'm rewatching 3 now cause I saw it in a hotel room with bad sound
posted by The Whelk at 4:56 PM on March 21


Sadly this week it's leftovers, and the week before it was vodka and Pringles in a hotel room.

Next week though, I'm planning Lamb shank with fried potatoes, radishes, and garlic couscous

Uh .."lamb" .
posted by The Whelk at 4:57 PM on March 21


Uh .."lamb" .

Funnily enough, I too have been doing "lamb" on Fridays recently.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 5:28 PM on March 21


And then I will enjoy a delicious prairie oyster appetizer.

Talking about spoiler link makes me hungry.
posted by homunculus at 5:29 PM on March 21


vodka and Pringles in a hotel room

Your liver is safe from being eaten by Hannibal.
posted by localroger at 5:36 PM on March 21


Was tempted by the thought of getting ribs delivered from one of my favorite BBQ places, but settled on a pulled pork sammich and some house-made chips from same. And because of course whether I mean to or not, I always seem to end up having dinner when the show comes on: The estimated delivery time is 15 min before the show starts...
posted by sparkletone at 5:45 PM on March 21


If I waited for the show to start to eat dinner I'd have to watch it from the floor while listening to the audio through headphones to hear it over the sound of my stomach growling.
posted by localroger at 5:55 PM on March 21


...there's pulled-pork in your neck of the woods? Hot damn! (I'm hoping to move to Chicago in the fall, and was really sad about missing barbecue. Next you're gonna tell me I can find sweet tea and bourbon.)

I actually had barbecue with the family earlier, but I've got a really good Stilton and some fig spread for the show. Maybe I should put on a dress or something to achieve the correct level of Fancy.
posted by dogheart at 5:57 PM on March 21


If I waited for the show to start to eat dinner I'd have to watch it from the floor while listening to the audio through headphones to hear it over the sound of my stomach growling.

I'm in Central time, so the show is 9 rather than 10 here. 9 is a late dinner for me (my day job's 10-6, commute and prep makes normal dinner is 8ish), but not abnormally so.
posted by sparkletone at 5:58 PM on March 21


I'm in CST too, but I rise early and generally head for the sack at 10. For me lunch is at 11 and if dinner is later than 6 I've gotta snack.
posted by localroger at 6:00 PM on March 21


...there's pulled-pork in your neck of the woods? Hot damn!

Of course! I wouldn't really know how it rates compared to Authentically Southern BBQ Made In The South™, but there's Smoke Daddy (where I ordered from tonight), Lillie's Q, Smoque. Quite a few others also, those were just the first three that occurred to me.
posted by sparkletone at 6:02 PM on March 21


All this talk is making me hungry ( eyes plastic murder suit)
posted by The Whelk at 6:11 PM on March 21


"I refuse to believe anything bad will happen to Beverly tonight simply because the pun 'curiosity killed the Katz' would give me a stroke."

GODDAMMIT, TUMBLR.
posted by sparkletone at 6:13 PM on March 21 [4 favorites]


Well the judge lacks a brain and heart, I guess we need someone to die of nerve.
posted by The Whelk at 6:22 PM on March 21


"we're off to see the wizard, the wonderful ripper of Oz..."
posted by The Whelk at 6:23 PM on March 21


( as for eating, I tend to eat around 9 but I also have a small snack at tea time, around 3, usually cheese and fruit or the like. My big deal is lunch at noon, dinner is usually just one big meat course with a few veggies. )
posted by The Whelk at 6:25 PM on March 21


(except for Fridays, when I serve seafood, and Mondays, when I don't eat meat.)
posted by The Whelk at 6:27 PM on March 21


Guys it's so close I'm not ready
posted by The Whelk at 6:33 PM on March 21


We'll get through it, man. BE STRONG.

(I really love that this is my "flail with other people" show. I'm so stupidly emotionally invested that I dunno how I'd handle it otherwise. True Detective is also really dear to my heart, of recent things, but I took that in one shot over like thirty-six hours, with little communal discussion, so it's a different beast for me. Though at some point I'd love to talk about the weird shared DNA, 'cause I think there's something there.)
posted by dogheart at 6:44 PM on March 21


I'm going to stick to non-specific failing here and maybe some on twitter but, oh god.
posted by The Whelk at 6:46 PM on March 21


Making myself a drink now to help the DOOOM go down easier...
posted by sparkletone at 6:52 PM on March 21


A spoon full of vodka helps the MURDER go down
posted by The Whelk at 7:01 PM on March 21


So we're doing strobe warnings now?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:01 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


I'm saying Hannibal Lecter!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:05 PM on March 21


HONEYBUNCH
posted by The Whelk at 7:06 PM on March 21


Dinner arrived slightly late, in fact, I sat down with right as the previouslies started.

Wouldn't have been mad if I'd missed that first hive shot...
posted by sparkletone at 7:07 PM on March 21


The one that got away, my god.
posted by dogheart at 7:08 PM on March 21


CUE JUDY GARLAND SINING THE MAAAAAN WHO GOT AWAAAAY
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 PM on March 21


Will is trying to get Chilton killed
posted by The Whelk at 7:12 PM on March 21


Tying a shiny new fly
posted by maggieb at 7:14 PM on March 21


I want to sign up for Jimmy Price's newsletter.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:15 PM on March 21


I love the big "V" on Lecter's visitor badge. It's the perfect fashion accessory for villains.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:18 PM on March 21 [2 favorites]


Holy Picasso ret-con batman
posted by The Whelk at 7:21 PM on March 21


I like the Kubrick/Hitchcockian vibe.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:22 PM on March 21


So many meta textual connections you guys , like into the paratexual ( beekeeping... )
posted by The Whelk at 7:23 PM on March 21


I can't wait for Picasso Hanni to feature regularly in comic sans hannibal comics on tumblr.
posted by sparkletone at 7:23 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


I don't know how I feel about this ret-con. Also is there no END to this man's UTTER FUCKERY?
posted by dogheart at 7:24 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Stop making my eyes wet, Fishburnes.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:29 PM on March 21


HEARTBREAKING
posted by The Whelk at 7:29 PM on March 21


He is Lecter, all fuckery is possible.
posted by The Whelk at 7:29 PM on March 21


Ladies and Gentlemen we are CODE RED FOR AMANDA PLUMMER.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:31 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


NO I THINK HE'LL FEEL THAT
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:31 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Ahhhhhhhhh
posted by The Whelk at 7:31 PM on March 21


I have a bunch of very disturbing questions for an acquaintance who is a no-foolin' actual beekeeper.

Wait what is that... NOPE NOPE NOPE *flees to kitchen during break for more liquor*
posted by sparkletone at 7:32 PM on March 21


Welcome to the F Bee I.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:32 PM on March 21 [5 favorites]


THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL ME

I LOVE YOU CANNIBAL, I LOVE YOU HONEY BUNNY
posted by The Whelk at 7:35 PM on March 21


DO YOU SEE
posted by The Whelk at 7:36 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


ZomBEE
posted by maggieb at 7:36 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Oh god Bev no
posted by The Whelk at 7:37 PM on March 21


BOY AM I GLAD I GOT THAT DRINK RIGHT NOW.
posted by sparkletone at 7:37 PM on March 21


Stop thinking Bev!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:37 PM on March 21


THIS IS THE DARKEST RET CON OH GOD
posted by The Whelk at 7:40 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


SOMEBODY SAVE WILL GRHAM
posted by The Whelk at 7:41 PM on March 21


Trophies. It's what's for dinner.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:41 PM on March 21 [2 favorites]


HOW IS THIS ONLY EPISODE FOUR
posted by The Whelk at 7:43 PM on March 21


GODDAMNIT I LIKED HONEY YOU BASTARDS
posted by dogheart at 7:45 PM on March 21


All this honey yellow lighting, have you tried the honey

Oh god, she thinks she's helping.
posted by The Whelk at 7:46 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Holy crap NO BELLA
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:48 PM on March 21


Oh no no no
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:49 PM on March 21


I'm a little upset right now
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:50 PM on March 21


UGH
posted by The Whelk at 7:50 PM on March 21


NO WE'RE NOT STOPPING NOW THIS IS TOO SAD NOOO
posted by The Whelk at 7:51 PM on March 21


I HATE YOU SHOW MY HEART IS CRYING NOOOOO JUST COME BACK WITH SOME CANNIBAL PUNS
posted by The Whelk at 7:52 PM on March 21


Save us Jimmy Price!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:53 PM on March 21


Is he flipping to decide whether or not to eat her?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:53 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Um
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:54 PM on March 21


Ummmmmmm
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:54 PM on March 21


He likes to play god 
posted by The Whelk at 7:55 PM on March 21


A COIN FLIP?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!! Hannibal, you are the abso-fucking-lute worst.
posted by sparkletone at 7:55 PM on March 21


Yes Bella!!
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:56 PM on March 21


HIT HIM MORE,
posted by The Whelk at 7:56 PM on March 21


BEV NO!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:57 PM on March 21


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
posted by sparkletone at 7:57 PM on March 21


SCREEEEEEEEMMMMM!
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:58 PM on March 21


Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucjfucjhdhdlhjboeuynsouyhdouyheonyuwnouyhdiuybxiygbsiuybeiugbsygxbiuybsuynounys
posted by sparkletone at 7:59 PM on March 21


I DON'T LIKE THIS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 PM on March 21


IM HYPERVENTILATING I NEED AN ADULT
posted by The Whelk at 8:00 PM on March 21


Just don't turn around. Hanni's right behind the curtain.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:00 PM on March 21


Group hugs everyone.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:01 PM on March 21


WHY AM I STILL CAPABLE OF LAUGHTER RIGHT NOW
posted by sparkletone at 8:01 PM on March 21 [2 favorites]


God damn do they know how to end an episode.
posted by Small Dollar at 8:02 PM on March 21


JESUS FUCKING CHRIST OH MY GOD
posted by dogheart at 8:03 PM on March 21


Hey someone gives you a coin and the power of life and death, what's any self-respecting psychopath gonna do?
posted by localroger at 8:03 PM on March 21


Oh yeah THAT'S THE BASEMENT we were all SALIVATING TO SEE last year. REMEMBER?
posted by localroger at 8:04 PM on March 21


All speculation is worthless, I sit in horrified awe. Jesus fucking Christ.
posted by The Whelk at 8:04 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


... he really should get slapped in the mouth more often.
posted by dogheart at 8:06 PM on March 21 [2 favorites]


THERE WERE AT LEAST 15 SLAP TAKES ON THE DAY AND SHE CONNECTED EVERY ONE #HANNIBAL #KATZANDMOUSE #FreedomForWill

https://twitter.com/BryanFuller/status/447205240966610944
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:07 PM on March 21


I'm a bit afraid for the contractor he's gonna call to redo his floors.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:07 PM on March 21


OH GOD THIS IS JUST THE START OF IT
posted by The Whelk at 8:08 PM on March 21


That was fucking harrowing and terrible and I LOVED EVERY SECOND.

goddamn, did you see how that fucker moved in the last scene?
posted by dogheart at 8:09 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


I'm so emotionally vulnerable right now.
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 PM on March 21


This is the start of the end of it, and Hannibal knows it. He is now trapped in a contracting box which ends with his discovery. The only question is how much trouble he can make before he is found out.

The season being young I'm guessing quite a bit.
posted by localroger at 8:11 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


It was just like flying towards the pantry door in the season opener. When he wants to move he moves
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:11 PM on March 21


Hands up if you are thankful you do not have a basement...
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:12 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


I am on the fourteenth floor and now I do not trust the people under me.

Oh god, this is EPISODE FOUR.
posted by The Whelk at 8:13 PM on March 21


Unless... we've been planted with the idea of memory canceling drugs. (I've experienced them in normal operating theatre. Creepy as hell.) If what he gives Bev after deflecting that shot that goes through the floor is an injection that makes her forget ... well ...

I'm not saying it's gonna happen, just that in this series fucking anything could.
posted by localroger at 8:14 PM on March 21


You guys, I AM SO PLEASED. And screaming, but mostly pleased! THAT WAS EVERYTHING I WANTED AND DIDN'T KNOW I WANTED.
posted by dogheart at 8:14 PM on March 21


That tweet notwithstanding, if you're doing a film fight and your slap connects, everyone in fandom and in the industry back to 1928 knows you are doing that wrong.
posted by localroger at 8:16 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


This is top shelf Grand Guignol.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:18 PM on March 21


Yeah but it's Hannibal, so
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:18 PM on March 21


AV Club coughs up an A. Sepinwall was pleased as well.
posted by sparkletone at 8:18 PM on March 21


I hate how good Fuller is at misdirection
posted by The Whelk at 8:18 PM on March 21


My question at the moment is if I want to rewatch immediately or wait for the west coast tweeting.

Also if anything will ever be okay.

But one of these has an obvious answer.
posted by sparkletone at 8:20 PM on March 21


I might do BOTH

But what I like is.. Whenever we get a glimmer that Lecter might be relatable and human, BAM, demon devil murder work.
posted by The Whelk at 8:23 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Exactly. Mads played that scene to perfection.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:25 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


A thought occurs to me: Beverly flips on the light, says OMG... Did she just read the spoiler link? Because if that's what happens when you read the spoiler link...
posted by sparkletone at 8:27 PM on March 21 [2 favorites]


It's a great fake out " oh he might have a human side, as strange and callous and alien as it is, he might respect this" and then NOPE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO FUCK WITH JACK BUWAHAHAHA I AM GOD
posted by The Whelk at 8:28 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Regarding the NEXT WEEK ON: ... Someone on tumblr pointed out that an orderly in the background of a scene at the institution where they're holding Will was noticeably someone or other who's been in other stuff. Like. They didn't get an extra. They got someone for realz, so they assumed this meant we'd see that person again and learn more about them.

WELP.
posted by sparkletone at 8:29 PM on March 21


Also the flipping of the coin was so Two-Face HEY I CAN BE A COMIC BOOK VILLAIN
posted by localroger at 8:29 PM on March 21


"That sounds like a supervillian to me"

yes I watched the last episode right before this one
posted by The Whelk at 8:37 PM on March 21


oh god is Hannibal in love with the idea of him being a Comic Book Supervillian? Like he got the idea from Vega? Is that guiding his actions now that Bedelia isn't his role model

omgomgomg i can't wait
posted by The Whelk at 8:38 PM on March 21


YOU'RE HARSHING MY BUZZ. BUZZ AS IN BEES. I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH.
posted by crossoverman at 10:09 PM on March 21


Fuller's walkthrough is up. It basically starts with a spoiler warning soooo.... Take that into consideration. AND OH MY GOD SO NOT OKAY.
posted by sparkletone at 10:15 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


That walkthrough is quite spoilery for the next episode - which sounds horrendous.
posted by crossoverman at 10:21 PM on March 21


West coast here having just finished.....AAHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....HOLD ME

Seriously, it's rare that TV can make me put my hands over my mouth chanting NONONONONO......but as Beverly went down the stairs to that basement ...
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:11 PM on March 21


Oh man. WHAT DID SHE SEE? Possibilities: The rest of Abigail Hobbs. The rest of Miriam Lass. Doctor Gideon. A big cork board with sparkly hearts and "Mister Hannibal Graham" or "The Lecter-Grahams" written in purple ink.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:11 PM on March 21 [3 favorites]


I note that Cleolinda's MOM called Silence Of The Lambs "The movie where Jodie Foster goes into the basement"

NEVER GO INTO THE BASEMENT.


oh god the little bullet holes

someone hold me
posted by The Whelk at 11:13 PM on March 21


Just going to leave this GIF here until someone gets the 10 minute youtube of it up.
posted by sparkletone at 11:22 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Oh wait wait wait. If you've read Hannibal, one of the most controversial parts of it is what happens with Hannibal and Clarice in the end. (The show may have been foreshadowing it with the drug-injection retcon with Will.) There's been a Clarice-analogue in the show already. I have an idea who is in the basement.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:23 PM on March 21


one of the most controversial parts of it is what happens with Hannibal and Clarice in the end.

Fuller's indicated that he feels this part of the canon is one of the parts that needs to be either thoroughly reworked or abandoned entirely. I and others have sort of assumed that part is Harris being like, "OKAY?! YOU MONEY-GRUBBING FUCKS WANT MORE CLARICE?! FIIIIIINNNEEEEE. HERE. CHOKE ON IT."

As for your speculation. I'll just point that there is a link with info for 2x06 that we've all been screaming at each other to not discuss much. If you really want to know ahead of time, your answers might lie there.
posted by sparkletone at 11:25 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


SLAP HIM, HIT HIM, DAS VAMPIR, DEMON BASTARD
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


Yeah Hannibal (the book) is... not on the same level as Red Dragon and Silence.

I've just been scrolling back up and I will check out that link. No I won't. I-- I don't know what I want. I'll go watch that slapping gif some more. DAMN IT BEVERLY.
posted by lovecrafty at 11:31 PM on March 21


I would like to return to the time when seeing Abigail smiling up at Will was emotionally challenging as the episode could get.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:31 PM on March 21 [1 favorite]


I need to come up with some combo word given what's said about 2x05 in this week's AV Club walk through to describe the combination of anticipation and dread I am feeling about next week's show....
posted by sparkletone at 11:41 PM on March 21


I need to come up with some combo word given what's said about 2x05...
Dreadticipation?
Dreadcitement?
Dreaderpated?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 11:51 PM on March 21


It's a great fake out " oh he might have a human side, as strange and callous and alien as it is, he might respect this" and then NOPE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO FUCK WITH JACK BUWAHAHAHA I AM GOD

That was so well done. There was that moment where his admiration for her was apparent, and then, just when you're starting to empathize with him, damn! Hannibal, you rat bastard!

Well played, Fuller.
posted by homunculus at 11:56 PM on March 21


There was that moment where his admiration for her was apparent, and then, just when you're starting to empathize with him, damn! Hannibal, you rat bastard!

I've never quite been fooled by Hannibal the way a lot of viewers had. I wasn't taken aback when he slammed Alana's head into the wall to knock her out the way many were.

Yet he totally got me here. It felt like the monster-ness of the scene was that he was being sympathetic to Bella's wish to die in a way that would lead to her not giving Jack a chance to really say goodbye... And he's always shown a certain affection towards her that he doesn't to most others, at least that's how it felt to me.

But then the moment she was unconscious... It wasn't just "heads she lives, tails she dies." It was, "Heads she lives, and I disregard her dying wish and fuck with Jack this way... Tails I fuck with Jack this other horribly damaging way." And he didn't give a shit. He'd get to play his game either way. It was just which cards would be in his hand, and he didn't particularly care which.

THE ACTUAL WORST.
posted by sparkletone at 12:15 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]


um, I don't think Dr. Lecter is a good guy
posted by The Whelk at 12:21 AM on March 22 [2 favorites]


He's not even nice in his pretend simulacra of being nice.
posted by The Whelk at 12:21 AM on March 22


I commented on the AV Club walkthrough about the soundtrack difference this week going unremarked in the talk with Fuller. Todd VanDerWerff himself assured me it would come up a few weeks from now. He also said that it gets stranger.

Which given tonight's almost-campty organ shit... Oh, man, I am super curious to hear what they're doing in the coming episodes. The show's soundtrack has always been perfect for its function in the show, but also very much of a piece in terms of its construction. The awful tube sound during the intubation scene wasn't that big a stretch, but the weirdo organ stuff this week definitely felt new (not in a bad way). I'm glad that'll get discussed.
posted by sparkletone at 1:03 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


That walkthrough is quite spoilery for the next episode

I would just like to nominate this warning for understatement of the Aeon.

Although obvious conclusion is obvious, news at 11.
posted by localroger at 5:50 AM on March 22


I would just like to nominate this warning for understatement of the Aeon.

*takes a bow*

But yes, no surprise there. But still, spoilery.
posted by crossoverman at 6:06 AM on March 22


Scott Thompson did an AMA on Reddit. Numerous mentions of the Sassy Science Team.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:26 AM on March 22


Does he mention Fruit Blog?

Hail fruit blog.
posted by The Whelk at 8:00 AM on March 22


So the Killer Of The Week sees mercy in killing terminally ill patients and Hannibal cruelly denies Bella that mercy in the most egotisticall way possible, framing himself as a literal God.

Guys I love this show.
posted by The Whelk at 8:49 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


Yeeeeeeeeppppppppp.

The more I pull apart this episode in my head beyond the immediate OMG NOOOOOOO reaction, the more I like it.
posted by sparkletone at 9:22 AM on March 22


omg I just re-discovered this thread and now I am sad it will end before the vaunted episode 5
posted by infinitewindow at 9:31 AM on March 22


Wow. I expected a lot of upset at this week's events (I am too), but I'm seeing a kind of disillusionment with the show I haven't before as I read through fan reactions. Some of it's people being in denial, of course, but some of it is gender politic stuff that even if I'm not in the same emotional place, I can see where they're coming from. Seeing hardcore fans being on kind of a ledge of giving up on the show because of how upsetting this week was combined with what that AV Club thing says next week is like... I really wonder how 2x05 will go over.

Maybe not everyone is as on board the pain train as I thought...
posted by sparkletone at 9:43 AM on March 22


Morning has come but my "I can't even ..." cloud of bummed out has yet to dissipate. I hate/love this show.
posted by echolalia67 at 10:16 AM on March 22


Somebody on that show knows their high-end vaporizers.
posted by echolalia67 at 10:50 AM on March 22


CHOO CHOO GET ON THE PAIN TRAIN
posted by The Whelk at 11:18 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


Also they seem to putting spoilers out there to *explain their intent*
posted by The Whelk at 11:25 AM on March 22


or, too quote Cleolinda Jones ("OKay after this episode I need to watch Jack pound Hannibal into sand a few more thousand times.")
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


also ..soo soo much Silence OF The Lambs quoting.
posted by The Whelk at 11:28 AM on March 22


Also also also this means Season 1 was being presented by an unreliable narrator.
posted by The Whelk at 11:30 AM on March 22


Also this is the only show that has literally terrified me in SO MANY WAYS.
posted by The Whelk at 11:36 AM on March 22


I didn't think they could make him any worse. But no. That little smile when he was injecting Will, my god.

And I'm honestly kind of delighted by it. Which says nothing good about me, I'm sure.
posted by dogheart at 11:38 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


YOU ARE HAVING TOO MUCH FUN YOU STOP THAT RIGHT NOW MR. FANCY CANNIBAL
posted by The Whelk at 11:40 AM on March 22


Also, Hannibal's cubist face...

Cubism is all about ...perspective.
posted by The Whelk at 11:43 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


Also, God killing Bev, un-killing Bella, he might as well be wearing a sign around his neck FANCY SERIAL KILLER. Four episodes in and he's so reckless and reveling in his power - what does he have to do show up caked in blood before anyone notices? (CHILTON of all people, notices and the man is a limestone block.)
posted by The Whelk at 11:59 AM on March 22 [1 favorite]


"And how is Officer Stuart? The one who was the first to see my basement?"

that bullet hole is going to come back to bite him.
posted by The Whelk at 12:03 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]


I fucking hope that bullet hole comes back to bite him. Or that Beverly left a note somewhere.

But yeah, reckless. I'm starting to wonder if "twelve weeks earlier" doesn't necessarily mean twelve episodes.
posted by dogheart at 12:25 PM on March 22


remember what your mother always told you - if you're going to investigate a possible serial killer after being told not to, leave a note or bring a buddy or twenty.
posted by The Whelk at 12:46 PM on March 22


God, this show is good, isn't it ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:59 PM on March 22


Being Will Graham's friend is the 8th leading cause of death in the Baltimore metro area
posted by The Whelk at 1:26 PM on March 22 [2 favorites]


All the spoilers aren't apparently printed to fit. According to this spoiler set, which includes the much-mentioned-above ep 6 spoiler but also similar "spoilers" for eps 4 and 5...

...the eps 4 and 5 "spoilers" neglect to mention that Beverly getting sandbagged by Hannibal is the cliffhanger of ep 4 and that she is most likely the "one of their own" found in ep 5. So it would appear that these spoilers, like Fuller's foreshadowing in the AV club walk-through, isn't considered ruinous for enjoyment of the episodes.

Comparing the ep 4 spoiler from my link to the ep 6 spoiler which many of us read above (and is also in my link here) it makes me wonder, what REALLY happens in ep 6?
posted by localroger at 1:46 PM on March 22


It turns out the whole damn show is the result of will eating some bad fish he caught and no one at Arlington has ever heard of this Dr. Lecter person.
posted by The Whelk at 1:49 PM on March 22


omg I just re-discovered this thread and now I am sad it will end before the vaunted episode 5

Do threads close after four weeks or a full calendar month?

I'm sure a new thread will pop up for us to discuss episode five. There's been lots of articles written this season that could be used as the impetus for another FPP.
posted by crossoverman at 3:04 PM on March 22


So one-armed Miriam Lass is gonna pop out and say, "And that's why you always leave a note!" and then everyone will head down to the banana stand for frozen treats and laughs. RIGHT? RIGHT?
posted by lovecrafty at 3:09 PM on March 22 [9 favorites]


I like the video of Hannibal and Bedelia just staring at each other and not talking.
posted by The Whelk at 3:17 PM on March 22


Hannibal takes Abigail because he not only knows she is about to make a terrible mess, he knows she has not thought far enough ahead to have left a terrible mess should she just disappear.

Hannibal takes Beverly because, as Will warned her, she has taken his baited hook and he knows she has not left anything that might make a mess because she would want the evidence she is seeking before she does that.

Hannibal does not take Bedelia because he does not know whether she has left a terrible mess for him to deal with.
posted by localroger at 3:31 PM on March 22 [2 favorites]


Posts on the Blue are closed to comments after 30 days per the wiki.
posted by maggieb at 3:42 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]


I need to rewatch this episode cause I was to busy going WHAT WHAT WHAT OMG
posted by The Whelk at 4:07 PM on March 22


My pattern for this season has become half-drunk flailing here and on twitter for the actual broadcast, and then rewatching over the weekend to pick up on what I missed.
posted by dogheart at 5:14 PM on March 22


Bev's actions make a lot more sense on the rewatch, also the hunt/fish/shoot/lure motif is much more obvious. Bev walked right into a trap she didn't even know was there.
posted by The Whelk at 5:44 PM on March 22


but also similar "spoilers" for eps 4 and 5..

The source of those (or at least of spoiler link) are official episode summaries sent out in press releases by the network. I'm not sure anyone's enjoyment of the actual episode enters into whatever weird calculus they use to decide what goes into those.
posted by sparkletone at 6:30 PM on March 22


I put this in an e-mail but I think it fits here

This is one of the few episodes of TV to actually ...scare me. Not make me uncomfortable or grossed out but really AFRAID. The idea of other people making these big choices for you, Hannibal decides you live, Bee Lady says you're better dead or as a zombie or that your memories are being manipulated I just gah. It's gaslighting on another level, the complete loss of control over yourself and your mind. It's cerebral and visceral and I'm so UNCOMFORTABLE with what's happening cause it's a horror show named Hannibal and dear god can someone just shoot him in the face.
posted by The Whelk at 8:26 PM on March 22 [1 favorite]


I've been saying in response to this episode that I think the worse thing Hannibal has ever done is revive Bella when she clearly wanted to die. I really cannot imagine the pain and horror of thinking you are giving up your life - and then being revived. Just thinking about that is giving me the shivers. It's not enough that it's hard to even comprehend what it's like to get to a point where you want to give up and fade out - but on top of that to be denied that, to be brought back. No wonder she fucking slapped him. And a slap feels like 10000000 times not enough.

Horrific.
posted by crossoverman at 2:29 AM on March 23


Well, i feel like my excessive rumination about this show is doing me a disservice. I wasn't exactly surprised by anything that happened.

Except tht part where Bev didn't tell ANYONE where she was going nor leave a note. Bev, did you not hear the part about Hannibal being a serial killer?

Her intuition was screaming sirens from the first conversation with hannibal though, you could see that distaste we glimpsed before, now rushing up to the surface. Bev is (was :-() the smartest with full use of all her faculties. She needs evidence, but INTUITION IS EVIDENCE ENOUGH TO INVESTIGATE.

Bev, you big dummy, though. If you think he's a serial killer why do you not confide in at least one of the boys?

So how did hannibal plan for this... Bev gets suspicious, he says look under the skin, she finds missing kidneys. Since he knows Will is feeding her ideas, he also knows Will is likely to be on to him soon so he takes a trophy and hides it in his house. If Bev finds it on her own he can kill her (if of course he's at home? Flaw in the plan?) but if she acts according to protocol and gets a warrant instead of just breaking in he can throw out all the people food and change his diet temporarily in anticipation of the stool sample.

Lucky him that he got home in time to catch Bev, though, eh. Bella, if only you'd detained him for a few more slaps.
posted by tel3path at 6:28 AM on March 23


It's not really clear that the timeline is that condensed tel3path; Bev's home invasion could be taking place days after Bella's visit to Hannibal. Since it's a trap from the get-go I'd suspect that Hannibal set it by creating what appears to be a golden opportunity for any illegal warrentless shenanegans but is actually the trap sprung in the last scene. After all, Hannibal doesn't follow her into the basement; he's already there.

As for intuition being evidence -- no, not for a professional. If Beverly lets anyone else know and she turns out to be wrong it will be a humiliating disgrace, and Hannibal knows her well enough to figure that she won't risk revealing that she broke the law to verify her suspicions unless she is certain.
posted by localroger at 7:24 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]


The things that make Bev a great fiber analyst are the same things that doomed her. She couldn't stop looking and taking in detail. She wasn't hunted, she was lured.
posted by The Whelk at 7:55 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]


It's not evidence in a court of law, it's evidence that it's worth looking for more evidence. That's what I meant. And yeah it wouldn't be legally admissible unless Bev thought that someone in that house was in imminent danger, and coincidentally they were, but she didn't actually think so when she set off. But she must have had a REALLY strong sense of impending doom to be willing to cross that line. Probably she was going to nick the evidence and sprint back to Jack with it to convince him to investigate properly.

I assume it's a short timeline because Bev confirms that Hannibal is at the hospital, then sprints off on some mission or other.

People upset about Bev getting the fridge. I see their point and i also see that being clever and brave enough to catch Hannibal tends to get you killed, so the only other way would be to give Bev less action.
posted by tel3path at 8:28 AM on March 23


someone on twitter said the suiting up scene was the most erotic thing they'd ever seen on TV and Fuller, the fucker, said "wait until episode 8."

and yeah, I always had the feeling Bev was gonna get the axe, cause believing Will Graham is the action of a future pot roast, and I'm glad it was used to use her more in the series up to that point so when she does go into the basement, oh god it hurts. It hurts so much. (See if it was Zeller going into the basement, I'd probobly be much more amused and less, like heartbroken about it.)
posted by The Whelk at 8:31 AM on March 23 [4 favorites]


Yes, I can imagine zeller going grumpily into the basement all like "fine, let's discredit will graham not that he needs it" and then lightbulb moment, and then bazinga. I would have just laughed and shovelled in more popcorn.

It's not the lobotomies that scare me you guys, it's not the bees. I'm scared of Hannibloom. I'm scared not because alana is going to get hurt - I think that's been a given from day one - but that hannibal will do something really embarrassing and narm as part of his cute boyfriend persona. I am not ready for that. No NO no no.

And you know the murder tie, well, alana's scarf from the gun scene matches that tie.

and it's like... Bev visibly starts to get slight creeps from hannibal from their first interaction, and here, you can REALLY see it. you can bet hannibal did too. That's why he baits the hook AND WILL FUCKING WARNED HER ABOUT EXACTLY FUCKING THAT, WHY BEV WHY, WHY DO YOU NOT LISTEN TO EVERY WORD
posted by tel3path at 9:35 AM on March 23


someone on twitter said the suiting up scene was the most erotic thing they'd ever seen on TV and Fuller, the fucker, said "wait until episode 8."

Alana, nooooooooooooooo.
posted by sparkletone at 9:47 AM on March 23


Boy won't her face be red when she finds out the truth.
posted by The Whelk at 9:50 AM on March 23


I hope she still has a face at that point, but in any event the place where it was will definitely be red
posted by tel3path at 10:12 AM on March 23 [2 favorites]


"He sent a serial killer to murder me ....AND IT FELT LIKE A KISS."
posted by The Whelk at 10:43 AM on March 23


"A serial killer did murder me and it did feel like a kiss, right up until the precise moment when it didn't"
posted by tel3path at 11:18 AM on March 23


IT IS GOING TO BE SO AWESOME I AM SO EXCITED YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA
posted by dogheart at 11:26 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]


...this is uh. the point in the thread where everyone backs away from me slowly, isn't it?
posted by dogheart at 11:38 AM on March 23 [1 favorite]


I'm going to make shipper BINGO cards let me tell you.

(UNNECESSARY TOUCHING! BINGO!)
posted by The Whelk at 11:39 AM on March 23 [2 favorites]


(damnit the crackvid I want to exist doesn't am I going to have to make it myself)
posted by The Whelk at 11:40 AM on March 23


(please vote for your favorite scene + out of context music pairings for Season 2 here)
posted by The Whelk at 11:42 AM on March 23


a slap feels like 10000000 times not enough.

Bella obviously has a DNR, she has to have had since she refused chemo. Maybe stripping Hannibal of his medical license, which in turn would cost him his job, his practice, and his place in Bmore "society," will be a bit more satisfying than a slap. If I were her, I wouldn't have touched the man, my hand would have already been cramped up from signing so many complaints with the medical board and dialing so many lawyers. Hannibal isn't the first psycho predator to walk the earth, that's the whole point of laws.

I think Beverly was dumb for not arranging some specific way of getting Hannibal out of the house (she couldn't have called some work meeting he would have had to go to, or requested some kind of evaluation of him to be done at length by Jack, or *something*? Why not just take the day off or go on her own lunch break while Hannibal is with the FBI?) but Hannibal must also have set her up or else she would have seen he was at home (she must have checked for his car?). But I can buy that she's be too impulsive or trusting or cocky to get Hannibal out of the house, though, because everyone on this show fails to take basic personal safety precautions. None of them ever have a Plan B, it's bizarre. What actually frustrated and upset me about that last scene was that Beverly apparently freaked out and shot her gun all over the place -- Beverly has always been the most level headed person on the show! She wouldn't have waited until he was up on her so she could shoot him point blank, with the muzzle pressing right into his body? I don't buy that she would freak out like that, that's just to make Hannibal look like a badass. Anyway, RIP -- Beverly was always my favorite.
posted by rue72 at 12:06 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


The shot must have been a ricochet or else she fell or was knocked over.

Since Bella tried to commit suicide and did so using naughty opiate drugs, different rules may apply in terms of the DNR. Moreover I am not so sure that a psychiatrist is legally obligated to simply listen to a patient announce that they've committed suicide and watch them die right in front of them.

The trouble isn't as much that one missed chance, as that now, Jack knows, and he will rule her with a rod of iron.

But yes, I agree, it makes no sense that Bev would break into a house on her own with no backup plan. either she expects to find nothing, in which case she shouldn't have broken in, or she expects to find incriminating evidence, in which case she should have said something to one of the boys, you can't trust Zeller but you could probs trust Jimmy.
posted by tel3path at 12:26 PM on March 23


The shot must have been a ricochet or else she fell or was knocked over.

Oh, no. Hannibal is so confident he's given her every chance. All she has to do is leave the house with what she found in the kitchen refrigerator, but nooooo she's got to find the basement. Hannibal knows she won't be satisfied until she's seen the basement too. She totally gets the drop on Hannibal with her gun drawn and ready, and he just stands there giving her a chance to realize what is about to happen.

And then he moooooves quick as a CUT to the kitchen BLAM BLAM BLAM pause PFFT through the floor. And what has happened eight feet down is Hannibal has crossed the distance between them, evading her fire, until he has grabbed her arm forcing her last shot up and wild, most likely in the same motion that with his other hand FADE TO BLACK.
posted by localroger at 12:45 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]


Maybe stripping Hannibal of his medical license

Has anyone anywhere in the US ever been sanctioned for violating a DNR, even when the result is half a million dollars of unpayable medical bills and years of suffering? Because I can think of several prominent stories along the years where the horrific results of an ignored DNR resulted in no consequences at all for the DNR ignorer.
posted by localroger at 12:48 PM on March 23


I'm glad someone made a GIF set of what we were all thinking during the trophies realization.
posted by sparkletone at 1:50 PM on March 23


I've seen a lot of "it fucking rhymes" gifs before this week's revelation. But keep 'em coming, it never gets old!
posted by crossoverman at 2:17 PM on March 23


Much like doge, I am still not tired of this meme. (I hope there's a version of like. The whole cast doing the thing on the blooper reel.)
posted by dogheart at 2:22 PM on March 23


I've seen a lot of "it fucking rhymes" gifs before this week's revelation. But keep 'em coming, it never gets old!

The first I can remember seeing I can't find at the moment. It's a series of four still images of Will sitting in his prison cell from the end of S1 looking upset, and the last one has in comic sans "it fucking rhymes."

I linked that GIF set because it's someone finally putting the words on the moment Will actually has that realization on the show.

In other news: this is pretty much how the trial went in my head from now on.
posted by sparkletone at 2:53 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


Will ..it rhymes with KILL
posted by The Whelk at 3:08 PM on March 23


Will ..it rhymes with KILL

Dammit.
posted by crossoverman at 4:00 PM on March 23


Bloom rhymes with Doom.
posted by tel3path at 4:25 PM on March 23


I wonder if Fuller is actually going to give us a scene, after Hannibal has been found out, with Jimmy Price exclaiming "Of course! It rhymes!"

And then lecturing Jack on the importance of stool samples.
posted by homunculus at 4:25 PM on March 23


OK, on rewatch -- it's definitely short timeline as tel3path suggests, Bev reasons "so Hannibal is at the hospital" and the next time we see her she's B&E at his house.

So Hannibal must follow her down. That the geometry of her apparent path doesn't seem to support that is probably just down to set dress and editing. Hannibal presumably knows she's there when he rolls up because HER car is there, and as a non-undercover cop it probably wouldn't occur to her to park around the corner.

So it's less a laid trap and more opportunistic than I thought -- though in other ways the episode couldn't have been plainer if it started with a BEV IS ABIGAIL II slide.

Also, it's a split second but what Hannibal does when he mooooves is he punches the lights off, making another little SOTL dark-basement reference. When it happens she's holding her gun but she doesn't have it in firing position and is in shock from whatever the fuck she's just seen when OMG NOT ONLY DID HE DO THIS SHIT HE IS HERE. So she doesn't have a bead on Hannibal when the lights go out, and by the time she fires he's elsewhere -- and unlike Clarice, she doesn't manage to track him by the light of her muzzle flashes or shoot out a darkened window blinding his night vision goggles.
posted by localroger at 4:37 PM on March 23


And she is a lab rat primarily, not an arresting officer type. This isn't what she does.
posted by tel3path at 4:40 PM on March 23


Bella will probably talk about the evils of Hannibal and Jack will not hear cos he saved Bella's life.
posted by tel3path at 4:41 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


Remember according to SPOILER LINK by ep 6 Jack is ready to crash Hannibal's dinner party looking for food to test, so something in the next 1.5 episodes must give him a pretty big fucking clue.
posted by localroger at 4:47 PM on March 23


Remember according to SPOILER LINK...

Damnit. I stopped reading that spoiler link after "dinner party" for a very good reason.
*throws hands in air*
Fine I'm in. Its not like after this one I couldn't guess anyway. :-)

But can we just pretend that Hannibloom won't be a thing, because I can't seen to find a way to prepare myself for that.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 5:01 PM on March 23


Bella will probably talk about the evils of Hannibal and Jack will not hear cos he saved Bella's life.

"saved Bella's life" = completely disrespected Bella and her rights over her own body.

I don't have any idea what (dignified, calm) Bella is going to do, but in my bizarrely visceral anger toward Hannibal over what is far from the worst thing he's done, I've already thought up a bunch of revenge plans on her behalf.

If even Jack doesn't take offense at Hannibal doing whatever he wants with Bella's body -- and Hannibal taking it upon himself to decide whether Bella was going to live or die on a certain day is about as far as "doing whatever he wants" can go, I think -- then Jack is a bad person or doesn't love Bella or both. I don't think he's a bad person (just too complacent sometimes) and I think he loves her (even if he has her on a pedestal), so I think he'll take Bella's side and be appalled at Hannibal's disrespect and arrogance. I'm hoping, anyway.
posted by rue72 at 5:08 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


I think Jack and Bella are bound for a VERY awkward moment which will be revealed to us in awesome and terrible splendor with all the fine skills these actors have demonstrated.

As for what turns Jack suspicious about Hannibal -- at this point I have no clue, although lots of candidates are circling in low earth orbit. Whatever it is the fact that we will know in advance Jack is going to be that suspicious by ep 6 doesn't seem to have worried anybody; hell it doesn't seem to have bothered Fuller to baldly tell AV club "Nope, she's dead" as his first answer on the question of Beverly. So whatever rabbits remain to be pulled out of Hannibal hats must dwarf these little teasers of (mis)information.
posted by localroger at 5:17 PM on March 23


But can we just pretend that Hannibloom won't be a thing, because I can't seen to find a way to prepare myself for that.

NOPE!

...mostly because I am rubbing my hands in anticipatory malicious glee. Much like how I spent this last episode going "oh my god, that is so fucked up... AND SO AWESOME! :DDDD!"

Like that totally horrible shit he pulled on Bella. And the whole thing where he induced seizures in Will. (acting in what he thinks are Will's best interests!) The worse Hannibal gets, the happier I am.

I mean. Have y'all noticed? I'm sure you have. He's the most disgustingly awful when he's trying to be kind. Which is why I want to see him in an overtly romantic relationship (hannibloom) as opposed to a covertly romantic relationship (hannigram, as much as Fuller ships it, and as much as I think it's the most valid reading of the show). Because I want every possible stop pulled out in regard to his sheer awfulness. I want every possible permutation of evil. I'm rolling around in that shit.

Go dark, Fuller. Go pitch-black. I want Hannibal Lecter as Nyarlathotep. I am so onboard this pain train.

And I submit that yeah, this shit is genuinely frightening. Like on an existential level. I think it's probably the scariest thing I've ever seen in fiction, your consciousness twisted against your will like that, for the amusement of something totally alien and terrifying. It scares the shit out of me, the idea of your mentality not being your own. That violation of trust.

I love that the cannibalism is the least of Hannibal Lecter's sheer evil. I adore that. I could get past the cannibalism. But what he did to Bella was this absolutely soul-obliterating, terrifying, utter denial of her dignity. The worst thing so far, for sure. And I am loving every second of it.



i'm really sorry. really. i know it's wrong.
posted by dogheart at 5:25 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]


i'm really sorry. really. i know it's wrong.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm horrified, but I'm not exactly looking away from this in-progress train wreck, right?

We're all watching this (except those that bow out because of this week). We should generally know what we've signed up for. The show's named after Hannibal for a reason!

Your glee is just part of the enjoyment everyone takes in the show minus some shame. OWN IT. It's fine.
posted by sparkletone at 5:37 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


Hey, I once wrote a story which has achieved some little long-tail following wherein the main character dies spectacularly three times in the opening chapter and manages to destroy the entire Universe TWICE. And I am totally grooving on this series. It's the best thing on TV since Budd Dwyer bowed out of politics.
posted by localroger at 5:54 PM on March 23


Interestingly, the AV Club walkthrough from this week's episode has been edited. There as a particularly detailed description from next week's episode that is now gone.
posted by crossoverman at 5:58 PM on March 23


It's still spoilery but some of the description is gone.
posted by crossoverman at 5:58 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


Fuller is being attacked on Twitter because this week's episode put the fates of two women of colour in Hannibal's hands. Apart from, "yes, of course, people's lives being at Hannibal's mercy is the premise of the show", I think most importantly, Fuller cast two women of colour in the roles in the first place. And also, Bella Crawford's entire role in Thomas Harris' narrative is to die of cancer. She's already done much more in Fuller's series than in the novels.
posted by crossoverman at 7:04 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


Un-Killing Bella was the worst thing Hannibal's ever done. He took away her agency and negated her choice CAUSE HE WANTED TO. He flipped a fucking coin cause it flatters his idea of himself as a capricious god. He wants power over life and death. He wants to preen. He's a fucking monster.

and he's getting sloppy.

RE: Bev. Bone Area Of My Skull: On Fridging Beverly Katz
posted by The Whelk at 8:02 PM on March 23 [6 favorites]


Was that his motive? Hannibal obviously thought a quick suicide for Bella was a good idea, probably because in his perverse way he wants what's best for his patients. Otherwise he wouldn't have tried to steer her towards the concept in their earlier conversation. He didn't suddenly change his mind about that.

As she was passing out from her overdose, Bella told Hannibal something he hadn't considered before: watching her waste away would be the worst possible thing for Jack. Suddenly he had two compelling, mutually incompatible options in front of him: Allow his patient to die with as much dignity as she could be afforded, or distract and torment the man who's in charge of hunting down the Chesapeake Ripper. There wasn't a clear winner between the two choices, otherwise Hannibal would never have left it up to a coin toss. And since he seems practically gleeful about hurting Jack, this means Hannibal valued Bella's chance of a peaceful death at least as much as he'll delight in watching Jack in pain.

Once the choice was made, he could toss his concern for his patient out the window. But he wasn't just playing God with her, although that certainly would have been attractive, and it wasn't just idle sadism. If it wasn't for Jack, Hannibal would never have considered reviving her.
posted by figurant at 9:19 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]


I think you're right. Hannibal wouldn't have given chance a chance otherwise.
posted by homunculus at 9:39 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]


On Fridging Beverly Katz

That's a great post, and I mostly agree with it - though I don't know how you can say it was both a complex and complicated story AND a fridging, since fridging is specifically about cheap storytelling just to get an emotional reaction from the main character. This post agrees that it was more than just cheap storytelling, so to me that means it simply can't be a fridging. (Fridging is often defined by the female character being one dimensional or written is just for the purpose of being killed off; Beverly was written to be killed off but she wasn't one dimensional and it's her characters' skills that lure her into that trap.)

I love the lists of characters and character deaths and possible upcoming characters and character deaths.
posted by crossoverman at 9:48 PM on March 23


On Fridging Beverly Katz

That is a really thoughtful piece of writing, and it's made me re-evaluate some of my reactions to the episode.
posted by figurant at 10:28 PM on March 23


Yeah, the thing is, until now, all we've ever done in the previous portrayals of Hannibal as a character is chuckle and go "oh, you!" His murders and twisted acts were Grand Guignol and funny.

Now we have TV Hannibal and he starts killing characters we care about and tormenting his supposed friends in the most knife-twisting ways possible. Bringing Bella back from the dead, and making sure Jack knows about it so he will keep her on suicide watch (and maybe she will be deprived of pain meds because of "misusing" them) shows that he is even worse than the lobotomy woman, who at least made sure her victims couldn't feel a thing.

Am I going to disagree with anyone that is mad because Beverly was fridged? No... I do think it's more defensible than is getting acknowledged though. Now, Beverly, whose character has been developed from the books, is going to get killed in bad ways for finding Hannibal out. We will all be 100000% horrified by this. Hannibal will once again kill someone who really matters to us. This is what Hannibal does. The more he does it the more we should hate him. If we're gonna say a WOC can't be that person, then one option is a WOC can't get killed in a show where only two characters really can't get killed (and I have my doubts about one). If a character can't be killed that removes a lot of the dramatic tension. Another option is that a WOC can't be a character we care about. We don't care about Nicholas Boyle, for example, and we tend to agree that Franklyn's death was the best thing for him, and Tobias Budge had it coming for challenging the champ, and so on. This was back in lighthearted and fun Season 1 when we were all so much happier than we are now. Well since Hannibal killed Abigail things are starting to get dangerous for the audience because irreversible bad stuff is going to happen to characters who really aren't just a plot device or a joke. I'd feel a bit bad if Jimmy got killed, and I would chuckle if it were Zeller who got killed, but Bev getting killed is an act of high-stakes BAD and she wouldn't be getting killed if she weren't better and smarter than those two guys anyway. Except for the bad decision about breaking into a serial killer's home without leaving a note, which is the worst most irrefutable symptom of fridging: annoying to see Bev die of stupid... I just dunno folks. (Sigh)

Ultimately though, Hannibal is bad, and more than that Hannibal is offensive. Hannibal is the devil. Hannibal rides roughshod over everything that even bad and insane humans (like ourselves? Ehe he) consider fundamental to human decency. Hannibal is horrifying. If we're going to ask that he not do things that horrify us and offend our sensibilities then he's not much of a Hannibal.

Having said that, I'm someone who's watching the show on the assurance that nothing will happen to the dogs, so what does that say about me.
posted by tel3path at 12:38 AM on March 24


And does anybody have an explanation for why they wouldn't have noticed the missing kidneys?

If the stitches hide stitches, the kidneys would have been missing from the start. There is no y-incision which means they didn't do a full autopsy. Why not? Is there any way in which this is standard? Does anyone know?

I mean maybe they just had too many bodies so we're making assumptions and stopped looking when they had enough to attribute the murders to Buffalo Bill, and then it's Will who points out that it's not enough to say oh well maybe the guy had a friend, what are you gonna do. It almost sounds like they were gonna leave it at that and not look too hard.

Actually no, I don't think so, but will points out "oh so you had as much evidence against him as me". It wouldn't be too surprising if these "top professionals" we're top professionals in a culture of just enough. (but then why have profilers, when all that matters is establishing that someone did it, oh well.)
posted by tel3path at 1:05 AM on March 24


Overall episode 4 was better than 3 but not by that much. It feels like they are rushing, which was fine for episode 3 because the approach to the court case was stupid, but here we have a lot of serious stuff going on.

I see why the killer-of-the-week was there and I get that this thematic tie-in bit is what the show does but there just wasn't time to do any of this right in 44 minutes, especially the acupuncturist killer. She didn't fight, run or try to hide anything... it was pure exposition. Again, yes, I know, more Bella connection but it was still boring and undramatic along with undeveloped.

I would very much like to see an uncut (or, more likely, re-cut) version of this episode so it doesn't feel so rushed.


And wow, that Fridging Beverly Katz piece is great. It took me a minute to realize that the title wasn't (exclusively) literal, referring to her going through Hannibal's refrigerator and pieces (presumably) ending up in it.
posted by mountmccabe at 6:44 AM on March 24


Although brief, I did enjoy how Plummer's character was so ...upfront and not bothered by what she was doing. That's so much creepier.
posted by The Whelk at 6:46 AM on March 24


To me it felt like it was because they didn't have time for anything else. I will have to pay close attention on the rewatch to see what she does to sell it. Lawrence Wells was also resigned to being caught after putting up his totem pole, but he at least had the jail-as-a-retirement-home bit.
posted by mountmccabe at 6:53 AM on March 24


Yeah, I liked her calm frankness of "oh no, I'm helping people".

I didn't think the Bella thing was the least bit boring. I would also speculate that she is one of the three characters that meet "terrible, terrible fates" - that doesn't have to mean death.

I didn't notice that it was rushed, i thought it was good, except for Bev's carelessness of her own life.

But it's so scary now that it's hard to watch. I don't care if it's rushed i'm like "get it over with" lol. The six commercial breaks are actually welcome.
posted by tel3path at 6:53 AM on March 24


I'll mostly agree. It was strange at first that the team found her and got a confession in the same scene, but then when she was all "Just helping people out, I'm the friendly neighborhood killer", it mostly made sense. From her perspective (there's that word again) she didn't have a reason to hide, you know?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:54 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]


Oh, I didn't mean that Bella's story was boring; in fact I wish it had been given more time.

I meant that Amanda Plummer giving in and confessing was done as a parallel to Bella's decision to end her life. There was a lot about the subplot that tied into what is going on in various main plot threads but I don't think we were given enough time for it to mean much of anything on its own.
posted by mountmccabe at 7:00 AM on March 24


I guess that's one of the joys of ADHD then... Time seems to elapse more slowly, LOL
posted by tel3path at 7:02 AM on March 24


It wouldn't be too surprising if these "top professionals" we're top professionals in a culture of just enough.

They hadn't even realized James Gray was the main muralist until Will pointed it out.

They appear to not have the resources to investigate all the killings in the region and when you add 30 new bodies to that work load at one time? You can start to hire more people but you've gotta train them and that slows you down in the short term. His body was still around and accessible; maybe further work on the schedule but they hadn't gotten to it yet because they were focusing on new cases that they didn't think they had solved. All that OT gets expensive.
posted by mountmccabe at 7:09 AM on March 24 [2 favorites]


Maybe they were going to send the bodies to a coroner who might have assumed they had removed the kidneys? But yeah we must assume they don't do everything themselves.

I gather the LA coroner handles 18000 bodies a year. It wasn't clear from the book I read that that workload was for more than one person, but it must have been.
posted by tel3path at 7:16 AM on March 24


But yeah, Hannibal basically relies on people not having time to detect him. It's quicker and easier to take him at face value.
posted by tel3path at 7:20 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]


Also the contrast is between deciding to end your own life and someone taking it upon themselves to decide you aren't really living.
posted by tel3path at 7:22 AM on March 24


Utter side note, Bev mentions at least once that they're overworked and overloaded with cases even without Will's Seekrit Invesitgation.
posted by The Whelk at 7:23 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]


Interestingly, the AV Club walkthrough from this week's episode has been edited. There as a particularly detailed description from next week's episode that is now gone.

I noticed this just now and wondered if it's part of the response to the episode or if AV Club decided to alter the text. I'm sure tumblr has the original version. There's no talk of the "gut punch" or the quite specific description of Beverly's tableau.
posted by sparkletone at 8:58 AM on March 24


I'll mostly agree. It was strange at first that the team found her and got a confession in the same scene, but then when she was all "Just helping people out, I'm the friendly neighborhood killer", it mostly made sense. From her perspective (there's that word again) she didn't have a reason to hide, you know?

Yeah, I think she wasn't shy because she thought of herself as a mercy killer/lobotomizer, Dr. Kevorkian-style. Of course she was just a regular old killer/maimer and there wasn't really much "mercy" about it, but potato potawwwwto.
posted by rue72 at 9:19 AM on March 24


I thought the beautifully awful thing about Bee Lady was that she didn't think of herself as a killer/maimer at all, and is just relating to them in complete childish innocence how she did what she had to do to help those two poor fellas, they were in so much pain y'know but when it goes away, that's a beautiful thing. She doesn't even say "isn't it?" like she isn't sure they will agree, because of course it's beautiful.

And the drop-dead "I don't believe I'm hearing this shit" look Fishburne replies with is priceless.
posted by localroger at 9:42 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]


Remembered today what should be the soundtrack to a Beverly tribute video. It's even spelled the same!
posted by sparkletone at 11:55 AM on March 24


THERE IS A SEX SCENE IN EPISODE TEN.

So today I introduced someone who has ever read or watched any kind of Thomas Harris media to the show so their reactions where really interesting ( he thought for a while Hannibal followed OTHER serial killers and harvested the organs after.)

I offered to cook him lunch while watching the first three episodes and everything I made was a little fancy meat dish. By the end of Potage I got such. A. Look.
posted by The Whelk at 3:33 PM on March 24 [6 favorites]


( I even cut up little rose tomatoes for the plates....)
posted by The Whelk at 4:12 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]


Latest cleolinda recap. She laughed at my assumption that 2x04 would just be gross sobbing GIFs... But come on. We all know it will be.
posted by sparkletone at 5:18 PM on March 24


The sex scene is just Zeller and Pryce giving into the passion.
posted by The Whelk at 6:06 PM on March 24


Angela at Madwomen and Muses has given up on Hannibal because of Beverly's fate. Contains the part of the AV Club walkthrough that was excised, including a description of Katz's tableau.
posted by crossoverman at 6:22 PM on March 24


Well if they had gone with the original Thomas Harris casting, nobody would be complaining about dead women (+of color) because there wouldn't have been any to get killed.
posted by localroger at 6:29 PM on March 24


Beverly Katz exists in Thomas Harris' novel, Red Dragon. She isn't explicitly a woman of colour.
posted by crossoverman at 7:03 PM on March 24


I like the suggest of BPAL's Lady sof Shalott for Bedelia's perfume. It's a wonderful, sophicated, subtle but somewhat icy scent.
posted by The Whelk at 7:10 PM on March 24


I believe that the Beverly Katz of the novels was male - it's not very common now but Beverly was once considered a man's name not unlike like the names Leslie or Shannon.
posted by echolalia67 at 7:47 PM on March 24


Sounds like the solution was to cast Katz as a white male.
posted by Justinian at 7:48 PM on March 24


I believe that the Beverly Katz of the novels was male - it's not very common now but Beverly was once considered a man's name not unlike like the names Leslie or Shannon.

Yep. Team Sassy Science was all male in the novel, also much less sassy. I considered both alterations an improvement.
posted by sparkletone at 7:57 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]


I don't have the novel handy and was going by the information on this page - but I guess they have just assumed Beverly is a woman, too?
posted by crossoverman at 8:05 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]


Yeah, we'd have had Alan Bloom and Fred(dy) Lounds if they went with the book casting. Am I bummed about Beverly? Absolutely. But it's a show about a highly intelligent, manipulative killer. He's gonna kill some people we like.

In the books and previous movies, we never met any of Hannibal's past victims. He was already incarcerated when we first see him. We know him as the clever, quip-filled guy who 'killed the rude'. We don't have any emotional attachment to any of the people Hannibal killed as the Chesapeake Ripper. Now we do. And it hurts! And it's going to keep hurting more!
posted by lovecrafty at 8:07 PM on March 24 [3 favorites]


re-watching the first season with a TOTAL NEWBIE is also making me realize Wow Bev has A Lot Of Screentime, way more than the other Science Team members I hadn't realized how often she was used as Will's Only Friend.

Also, oh man so much more mirroring of the first season! That best of you line in Episode 3 comes back as "best of you" in episode three of this season.
posted by The Whelk at 8:11 PM on March 24


(Total Newb thought Bev was kind of irritating and unprofessional, more like older sibling than colleague, but is warming)
posted by The Whelk at 8:12 PM on March 24


Yeah, what? I'm pretty sure Beverly Katz in the novel is female, although I don't have the text at hand. In Manhunter, she has a named role played by Michele Shay who is sporting an awesome afro
posted by figurant at 8:16 PM on March 24


also "based on your descriptions Whelk I thought this show would be a lot funnier."
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]


also, with the exception of Will, all the people who have pinged to the Dracula Behind The Person Suit have been women. Don't know if that's anything.
posted by The Whelk at 8:19 PM on March 24


also, with the exception of Will, all the people who have pinged to the Dracula Behind The Person Suit have been women. Don't know if that's anything.

Maybe that the way to a woman's heart isn't through her stomach?
posted by rue72 at 8:21 PM on March 24


Yeah it's through her ribcage.
posted by Justinian at 8:33 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]


from the cleolinda comments

"
You know, though, I'm waiting for the day someone says "I want to love you" or "I want to be with you as you are." Even Hannibal wanted to "solve" him last season. Not that Will doesn't desperately need help at this point, but it'd be nice to get to a place where he can connect with people--and where other people want to connect with him--without their priority being to change him in some way. Again, Will Graham gotta save his own damn self, I guess.

THIS IS GORGEOUS. Not that I don't want people to help Will (and Alana is THE BEST EVER, BASICALLY) but Will needs more relationships with people who don't come into the conversation with a barrage of expectations. It's why I've always loved his relationship with Bev."


aaaand I've made myself sad again, also explaining my lingering distaste of Alana. She very openly pities Will, why wouldn't she? She thinks he's the victim of a severe mental break caused by disease that led to Awful Things, she can't see what we see - that not only is he innocent but these things where DONE to him by a Dracula Wizard - but her role to be the Most Wrong Person Ever down the line, so I can't dislike her too more for not magically knowing all things we know and cause her world is ticking down to a bad place.
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]


(also from the comments: WARNING: NON-CONSENSUAL FRIENDSHIP)
posted by The Whelk at 8:50 PM on March 24


also "based on your descriptions Whelk I thought this show would be a lot funnier."

Season two is a lot funnier!
posted by crossoverman at 8:52 PM on March 24 [1 favorite]


One thing I hated about the movie/book Hannibal is that they turned Lecter into some sort of avenging angel/my pet serial killer/Dexter. As a piece of writing, it just seemed so damn lazy and insulting to readers/viewers that Harris turned Hannibal in to a protagonist who only killed characters the reader would easily regard as " bad people" and seemed to be some sort of twisted champion of the oppressed (Margot Verger, Clarice Starling).

Fuller's definitely knows how I (and so many others) like their Hannibal served up: a character whose fleeting feelings of connection and affection (I'd say sense of ownership is a more accurate description) towards others will always take a distant third to murdering and psychologically destroying anyone who either gets in his way or merely annoys or inconveniences him. I really hope Fuller keeps it up.
posted by echolalia67 at 8:57 PM on March 24 [3 favorites]


I only really like him totally when he's being an Alien From Planet Europe and I like when the show rewards me for his by constantly showing him as an unrepentant shitmonster.
posted by The Whelk at 9:14 PM on March 24 [2 favorites]


(Said Total Newb also said he really hopes Hannibal is just fucking with the FBI cause his patients are boring and he's bored, no "redemptive Dexter shit.")
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 PM on March 24


I'm waiting for the day someone says "I want to love you" or "I want to be with you as you are."

So is Will. Why do you think he has so many dogs?

*single tear
posted by rue72 at 9:21 PM on March 24 [3 favorites]


DOGS KEEP A PROMISE A PERSON CAN'T.

imagine the scene when Will get reunited with the puppies

IMAGINE IT.

it would be the perfect episode 13 fakeout ending until we come back from the fade to white and Hannibal is like, under his bed.
posted by The Whelk at 9:30 PM on March 24 [4 favorites]


And the dogs, as one, bite Hannibal in the ass and won't let go.
posted by tel3path at 12:55 AM on March 25


DOGS KEEP A PROMISE A PERSON CAN'T.

F*** yeah Alana, like that promise to do no harm? For a start.

Remind me again why Will should ever stoop to interacting with another human being after this? At all, ever?
posted by tel3path at 12:57 AM on March 25


Yes, the Beverly Katz in the novel is female.
posted by tel3path at 12:58 AM on March 25


AAGH

Hannibal is wearing just a checked Will-type shirt in the new preview stills

TO POSE AS WILL FOR ALANA-SEDUCING PURPOSES

HANNIBAL I HATE YOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

arg that picture just makes my heart bound out of my chest with indignation and bounce like a rubber ball across the room, FUCKING DAMMIT

And then all of them at some fancy party. Without Will, of course, cause even when he is not a murderer he is still a bad dog! Bad dog!

Oh please let the scene in ep 10 be fake Hannigram
posted by tel3path at 2:40 AM on March 25


...WAIT.

Hannibal tampers with people's level of consciousness. He did it with Will in s2, but also to Alana in Potage.

...HE'S RENDERED ALANA UNCONSCIOUS BEFORE.

THAT'S WHY SHE DOESN'T SEE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS.

It is not because Alana is as stupid as I've been saying she is.
posted by tel3path at 2:57 AM on March 25


Bev in the novel has a throwaway line about Saul cooking for Will next time he's in town... I am sad we'll probably never meet Saul.
posted by infinitewindow at 7:59 AM on March 25


Not unless it's at Bev's funeral :-(
posted by tel3path at 8:03 AM on March 25


Listen SHOW, when we where all goofing around abut this season and said " Hannibal is going to show up all "what I'm growing my hair out, yes this is my shirt, do you like my new glasses..." we where KIDDING we didn't expect you to do that.
posted by The Whelk at 8:17 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]


Also the AXN promos have Will shirtless , sweaty and wearing Wendigo horns and it's making me upset.
posted by The Whelk at 8:36 AM on March 25


It's coming true

But yeah, THIS IS WHAT PSYCHOPATHS ACTUALLY DO. And it is creepy.

What's the betting we see him playing the piano *now* because Will has a piano and he must be Will only better.

AUGH! The sight of this enrages me like nothing else. I could handle him making lung scramble, I could stay calm at the sight of him injecting Bella, but he starts incorporating someone else's mannerisms and I lose it and have to be picked out of the ceiling plaster for hours afterwards.

Ha ha! He is going to get Will's life! All of it! Up to and including the shitty prison jumpsuit and the baleful attitude.
posted by tel3path at 8:40 AM on March 25 [4 favorites]


Yeah and the AXN promos are meant to evoke exactly what they do evoke.
posted by tel3path at 8:41 AM on March 25


Ha ha! He is going to get Will's life! All of it! Up to and including the shitty prison jumpsuit and the baleful attitude.

Oh god I just realized this is what's happening and I laughed for a solid minute. "You wanna be me so badly, here go be petulant in jail forever."
posted by The Whelk at 8:50 AM on March 25


"Here, keep it! I didn't like it anyway!"
posted by tel3path at 8:53 AM on March 25


Also now when Hannibal sics Dolarahyde on him in the Red Dragon storyline there can be an undercurrent of HERE SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT STUPID.
posted by The Whelk at 8:55 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]


It's hilarious that Mr Suave Smug Expert On Social Exclusion is so madly envious of the unpopular outcast who is covered in dog hair.
posted by tel3path at 8:57 AM on March 25


Hannibal Lecter, the ultimate hipste, liked Will before it was cool.
posted by The Whelk at 8:58 AM on March 25 [2 favorites]


You know, people can accuse this of being a soap opera plot or being misogynistic because it's going to make a fool out of Alana - but these are the things that really get under the audience's skin.

I mean, if all Lecter did was a bunch of grand guignol murders, so what? All this over-the-top violence is designed not to resemble any commonplace systematic threats in the real world. As I go about my humdrum life, I'm not afraid of being captured by a mad cello teacher and turned into catgut string, or impaled on a stag head and my lungs ripped out.

What I'm afraid of is getting dangerously closely involved with a guy who will hurt me. A guy for whom this is all a big joke. A guy who basically only wishes me harm, and who makes full use of everything he learns about me to maximise the harm he does me while minimising my awareness of it. The guy who will make a fool of me professionally and infiltrate the furthest reaches of my livelihood and make me doubt the competence I've worked so hard to build up. That guy who will poison my relationships with everyone else in my life and probably make me, and everyone else, be thankful he did so. That guy who makes other guys look unsuitable and deficient in comparison because he talks and even walks such a good game, but none of it is real. That guy who will take the best things about me and use them not only against me, but against everyone I care about, who will convince me to turn my back on them and fully believe I'm doing the right thing. That guy who killed his last wife and fed her to me, and who will kill me and feed me to his next wife, and nobody will miss me, and everyone will think it's the food of the Gods that they're eating. The guy with whom I can do everything right, but he makes all my rights turn to wrongs.That guy is the Boogeyman.

Compared to that, you think a guy who slices up strangers is scary? Pooh pooh.
posted by tel3path at 9:17 AM on March 25 [5 favorites]


Hannibal Lecter as Bluebeard? YES. I am one thousand percent here for that.

And Whelk, sir, that is some next level trolling and I salute you. :D

oh my god those pictures. oh my god. And did you see how the blue of her dress matches the blue flowers in that tree thing? Sweet Jesus. I'm just making squeaky little evil delighted noises over here.
posted by dogheart at 10:11 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]


THE PICTURES, LOOK HOW ELEGANT AND RESPECTABLE THEY LOOK IN SUCH SUMPIOUS SETTINGS SURELY NO ONE IN HERE CAN BE A MASS MURDERING MONSTER
posted by The Whelk at 10:27 AM on March 25


I LOOK REALLY GOOD NEXT TO HANNIBAL, OBVIOUSLY HE CAN'T BE THE KILLER, HE MATCHES MY OUTFIT
posted by tel3path at 10:34 AM on March 25


we're all TALKING about the new promo video but no one is LINKING to it

eeeeeeeee
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]


The guy with whom I can do everything right, but he makes all my rights turn to wrongs.That guy is the Boogeyman.

This is spot on. I am far more terrified of being disconnected from reality than having my lungs disconnected from me.
posted by mountmccabe at 10:47 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]


OMG that Gideon is sneaky, what? "Offering you a chance to save Will Graham from himself'? Way to psychic-drive, buddy. You're crude, but you learned from someone with an adequate command of the subject.

And of course Alana's unaware that Gideon tried to kill her, and that Hannibal practically carpooled with him to do so.

Just, why the FUCK does everyone but EVERYONE fucking turn on Will? All he's got left are unreliable allies, and of course they do the predictable thing, but what the FUCK is so great about Hannibal that absolutely bloody everyone is SO keen to support him? Ha ha I'll screw over Will Graham because I can tee hee.
posted by tel3path at 10:57 AM on March 25


windowpane prints make you instantly likable
posted by The Whelk at 11:09 AM on March 25


It's just, like, EVERYONE, given an opportunity to fuck Will over, will ALWAYS take it. You can't leave anything up to anybody's good faith!!!

Unless Will anticipated it and he doesn't trust anybody and it's all part of his Cunning Plan, but I'm not sure he's thinking straight enough for that right now.

Oh! Mercy me! How could anyone try to kill Hannibal, just because someone from the BAU has been turned into cold cuts! And why would anyone listen to Will, just because he has a 100% rightness rate! Has nobody noticed that he's INSANE? (well no actually because we are all rubbish psychiatrists but) You can't listen to a guy like that, even if he has a history of being right and even if his insanity was purely situational!
posted by tel3path at 11:15 AM on March 25


Hettienne Park responds to the Beverly-fridging thing.
posted by sparkletone at 11:38 AM on March 25 [3 favorites]


guys ....guys what if Will Graham ends up in a Florida with a face that's "hard to look at" cause he's too pretty?

Eh? Eh?
posted by The Whelk at 11:42 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]


Ooh golly, imagine that. Will Graham being so beautiful that all who look upon him instantly turn to stone.

I still think that Bev rushing into a murderer's house like that was ill-judged writing. You have the potential illegality of the search, her telling nobody where she was going, and her general lack of regard for her own safety. Any one of these things could be explained away, but not all three. Not for the most sane and sensible character on the show. Yeah, she joined Will at a crime scene and kept it quiet, but on that occasion she wasn't going in ALONE with NOBODY AT ALL knowing what she was doing - Will knew!

If they'd given her better justification for charging in there like a bull in a china shop, I'd feel better about the whole thing, but there it is.
posted by tel3path at 11:46 AM on March 25 [1 favorite]


Also, in the very first episode, she walks in on a place she's not supposed to be.

I mean it's flimsy but it's there.
posted by The Whelk at 11:47 AM on March 25


If they'd given her better justification for charging in there like a bull in a china shop, I'd feel better about the whole thing, but there it is.

You're not wrong. It's my only problem with the episode, really, after rewatching last night. I wonder if they had a scene or a few lines somewhere in there to give it more justification that had to get cut because of time?

It's still horrifying and upsetting and I'm sure if they had HBO length episodes they would've done a little more to set it up. But as it stands, it's a very "cliche stupid horror-genre character decision" thing to do on a show that generally does a better job of laying its ground work than that in my opinion.
posted by sparkletone at 12:15 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


I mean it's flimsy but it's there.

Much, much too flimsy if you want to go with that. She's not shown being as reckless as she was with rushing to Hannibal's house at any point that I can recall. Walking in on Will isn't going into a dangerous situation illegally. It's at worst interrupting a coworker's concentration as long as you don't contaminate the crime scene.
posted by sparkletone at 12:20 PM on March 25


on an unrelated note it's really weird to google cast members and see Chilton singing "The Man Who Got Away" with a beautiful broadway voice.
posted by The Whelk at 12:43 PM on March 25 [2 favorites]


Yeah. They needed the character to get killed, so they wrote her into a situation where she would get killed, despite the fact that she had to display OOC poor judgement in order to do so. This is not a great way to kill off a character who until now has flown the flag for level-headedness and good judgement.

Saying she "did it to save Will Graham" isn't good enough either, because a) well that was an epic fail, b) preventably so and c) unless Lecter's house was rigged to a ticking time bomb and she thought Will was tied to a chair inside, she should have taken safety measures first.

Bumping her off in these circumstances just doesn't honour the character and is a pro-argument to her having been fridged. If they'd written it better I'd be a lot less sympathetic to the argument that she was fridged.
posted by tel3path at 12:43 PM on March 25


One should watch all the Raúl Esparza Broadway style work there is! Being Alive (Fuller mentions seeing this causing him to want to work with Esparza) to Defying Gravity. And the disco ball jacket bit I linked above. He's fantastic.
posted by mountmccabe at 12:54 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


What more appalling thing could Hannibal do to take over Will's identity? I know! He and Alana could formally adopt all of Will's dogs!
posted by tel3path at 1:21 PM on March 25


I'm really hoping that next episode we see that she left a note. Always leave a note. I mean, I'm not real optimistic, but it's a possibility.
posted by dogheart at 1:31 PM on March 25


Yeah and if she did I bet Hanni finds it first
posted by tel3path at 1:33 PM on March 25


At least she'd look a lot less stupid. Which is my main complaint. I mean, even if that doesn't happen, it's not like I'm going to stop watching at this point. I'm going to grumble a little bit and sigh and move on.

(At the same time, I'm also not going to tell anyone they shouldn't be pissed off.)
posted by dogheart at 1:53 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


IF THERE IS A SCENE OF WILL RECREATING/RELIVING BEVERLY'S MURDER, I MAY NOT RECOVER. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED, BRYAN FULLER.
posted by crossoverman at 4:12 PM on March 25


I think that's why he has to be wheeled out in the face mask.

Cause the goal of the show is always MAXIMUM SADNESS.
posted by The Whelk at 4:16 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


What more appalling thing could Hannibal do to take over Will's identity? I know! He and Alana could formally adopt all of Will's dogs!

Naw, Hannibal makes no effort to become the dogs' official owner, and even tries to bring them to the prison to give them some play time with Will -- but despite Hannibal pleading with the dogs to remember and trust Will, they won't leave Hannibal's side and whimper when Will comes near.

And then the guards come with the mask and gurney, to take Will back to his cage.

What I'm afraid of is getting dangerously closely involved with a guy who will hurt me. A guy for whom this is all a big joke. A guy who basically only wishes me harm, and who makes full use of everything he learns about me to maximise the harm he does me while minimising my awareness of it. The guy who will make a fool of me professionally and infiltrate the furthest reaches of my livelihood and make me doubt the competence I've worked so hard to build up. That guy who will poison my relationships with everyone else in my life and probably make me, and everyone else, be thankful he did so.

Fantastic comment. But one quibble -- Hannibal really does love Will, I think, and it's not a joke to him. But that just means he'll hurt Will *worse.*

Poor Will knows it, too.
posted by rue72 at 4:39 PM on March 25


The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that anyone can pull off a full Windsor.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:00 PM on March 25


...I wear full windsor knots pretty regularity.
posted by The Whelk at 5:09 PM on March 25


(granted I also have a collection of vintage silk ties so maybe not the typical example.)
posted by The Whelk at 5:15 PM on March 25


...I wear full windsor knots pretty regularity.

AWAY WITH YOU DEVIL MONSTER!
posted by crossoverman at 6:18 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


Buddy I will gladly cover for you if you're eating people. It's the gaslighting and the playing god and the seizure-inducing evil that I draw the line at.
posted by dogheart at 6:47 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


Hannibal really does love Will, I think, and it's not a joke to him. But that just means he'll hurt Will *worse.*

This. And, in fact, this is the horror of Will needing to consult him in Red Dragon. Because at that point Will knows what Lecter is capable of, knows what he did, and knows what Hannibal can do to Will. So going into that jail to interview Hannibal is like putting his own head into a meat grinder.

But Jack wheedles him into doing him, good ol' Jack.
posted by localroger at 6:50 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


Fresh thread. Such new.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:02 PM on March 25


I work my entire theory of this show is that we need to explain why Will, after having had a whole ten minute conversation with Hannibal in Red Dragon, feels the need to run like a bat out of hell and get his bearings and change his pants cause dear fuck god that man is terrifying because of reasons.

Now we are seeing those reasons.
posted by The Whelk at 8:07 PM on March 25 [4 favorites]


Also Dancy talking about how easy it would be to fall into Hanmibal's orbit and just be his pet again and how he has to fight that. Gaaaah.
posted by The Whelk at 8:08 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]


The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that anyone can pull off a full Windsor.

Pleased to meet you. I see you've guessed my name.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:25 PM on March 25


Also, are we switching threads...do I have to meet new people?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:32 PM on March 25


Yeah and if she did I bet Hanni finds it first

Very much this, or something proximal. It would seem pretty inconsistent for them to not make some attempt to explain the obvious WTF of Katz going in solo. But maybe I've just been glossing over such things previously?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 10:36 PM on March 25


I said yesterday that Hannibal must be rendering Alana unconscious (as he has with her, and we now know with Will) to keep her fooled so long, and that it's not enough to note that Alana often avoids noticing too much about the people around her.

But what if it is? I assume Alana is the prettiest princess, but what if she isn't. She specializes in family trauma, what is up with that? Did she grow up looking straight at something and not seeing it and then, nothing in her professional life trained to see that thing either?

Because she totally lays into Jack and blames him 100%. And I get that encephalitis is hard to diagnose. But how could Hannibal not have noticed Will displaying psychotic symptoms? There was no one other person who spent enough time alone with Will to spot it, so I get that. But Hannibal of all people should have known something serious was going on and done something meaningful to treat it, but he never did.

They also know about the brain scan he had, but nobody asks what led him to get the scan? If it was Hannibal's idea, he knew something serious was up, and he could have been on the scene too. If it was Will's initiative alone, Will knew Hannibal's treatment was inadequate. But the only explanation anyone comes up with is, it was a conspiracy between Will and Sutcliffe to hide an excuse to keep murderiing (!) ALANA NEVER QUESTIONS ANY OF THIS?????

I can't look at this picture and believe Alana (or anyone, but she's the expert in this matter) is evidence based. And now she's going to be Bride of Dracula, because wtf.

What the hell is this? The only answer i can come up with is ableism and classism. I guess it's normal for middle-class people to think that only poor people can be pathological, and that it's inherently pathological to be working-class. And I guess it's normal for people in the professions to think that too. So it follows on logically from that, that Hannibal must be the sanest guy in town because not only is he loaded, he's an aristocrat too.

Or maybe he puts MDMA in the food. I just. WTF is it with Alana, who doesn't hesitate to blast Jack into the middle of next week, but never ever asking a single question about Hannibal whose JOB was to evaluate AND MONITOR Will's fitness for field work? Not even a "Hanni, why didn't you notice ANYTHING" or a "Hanni, did you know Will got a brain scan" - nothing????
posted by tel3path at 1:48 AM on March 26


Oops meant to put this in the other thread
posted by tel3path at 2:00 AM on March 26


She and Hannibal are heavily implied to be old and close friends, so I don't think it's crazy to expect her to have a blind spot there. I would.
posted by you're a kitty! at 2:21 PM on March 27


« Older What happens when your neighborhood gets overrun w...  |  A Conversation With My Copyedi... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments