My mental popcorn kernel of depression
March 5, 2014 5:41 PM Subscribe
I thought the same thing about the little blue pill, but all jokes aside, the article resonated and put a voice to some things I have also felt. Here's to mental health.
posted by tkappleton at 8:26 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by tkappleton at 8:26 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
I didn't like this article at all. Oh, I'm an introvert but I have to put on appearances sometimes. Oh, medication helps. One sees why prominent authors tend to be a bit older.
This is very mean-spirited, yes.
posted by solarion at 8:36 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
This is very mean-spirited, yes.
posted by solarion at 8:36 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
This person seems to have a serious personal fable problem ("my friends couldn't get by without me," "I wanted to save people," etc.) It also seems like she never developed proper introvert coping skills; and engages in a great deal of negative ruminating thinking - as shown in this very article!
I mean really:
[People in college] don’t much care for brooding, bookish types who are soft spoken and spend a lot of time alone.
No, those people get branded as potential serial killers.
Such drama! But in fact, brooding bookish types get branded as nerds, not serial killers. Not nearly as exciting. And what is with the sudden jump from college-time to "wanting to save everybody"? That feels like it was just thrown in there with no context, like it's a trope you're just supposed to include in one of these types of things.
But whatever, I'm glad she feels better. Maybe there are some other issues, but she doesn't disclose them, so what it boils down to is basically, she's an introvert but doesn't want to act like one. Is it any wonder she's depressed?
posted by mrbigmuscles at 9:15 PM on March 5, 2014
I mean really:
[People in college] don’t much care for brooding, bookish types who are soft spoken and spend a lot of time alone.
No, those people get branded as potential serial killers.
Such drama! But in fact, brooding bookish types get branded as nerds, not serial killers. Not nearly as exciting. And what is with the sudden jump from college-time to "wanting to save everybody"? That feels like it was just thrown in there with no context, like it's a trope you're just supposed to include in one of these types of things.
But whatever, I'm glad she feels better. Maybe there are some other issues, but she doesn't disclose them, so what it boils down to is basically, she's an introvert but doesn't want to act like one. Is it any wonder she's depressed?
posted by mrbigmuscles at 9:15 PM on March 5, 2014
People never believe I'm am introvert. I'm just very good at posing as one and boy is it tiring.
Huh? That doesn't make sense. If you are an introvert, you don't need to pose as one.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:36 PM on March 5, 2014
Huh? That doesn't make sense. If you are an introvert, you don't need to pose as one.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:36 PM on March 5, 2014
The introvert/extrovert distinction seems completely pointless internet identity politics anyway. We're all ambiverts that skew a certain degree.
posted by Apocryphon at 9:40 PM on March 5, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 9:40 PM on March 5, 2014 [5 favorites]
This essay is too vague. I don't even think there's an anecdote in there.
Ms. Norman, next time will you please straight up tell us: what / where / when / why / how?
On the upside, now I can see how essentially the same essay could have taken Emily Gould six months to write and polish.
posted by rue72 at 10:41 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ms. Norman, next time will you please straight up tell us: what / where / when / why / how?
On the upside, now I can see how essentially the same essay could have taken Emily Gould six months to write and polish.
posted by rue72 at 10:41 PM on March 5, 2014 [1 favorite]
The introvert/extrovert distinction seems completely pointless internet identity politics anyway. We're all ambiverts that skew a certain degree.
I can assure you it isn't pointless to people who find themselves on the extremes of that spectrum. The skewing to a degree is precisely the issue for many people, the fact that they might be less atypical in other respects is precisely not the issue.
posted by tychotesla at 11:36 PM on March 5, 2014 [4 favorites]
I can assure you it isn't pointless to people who find themselves on the extremes of that spectrum. The skewing to a degree is precisely the issue for many people, the fact that they might be less atypical in other respects is precisely not the issue.
posted by tychotesla at 11:36 PM on March 5, 2014 [4 favorites]
I feel like the author had this idea of the analogy of depression to a stuck popcorn kernel and thought it was great and so wanted to share it. But the attempt to expand that idea just resulted in fairly nonsensical ramblings.
posted by modernnomad at 12:02 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by modernnomad at 12:02 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I had a lot of trouble getting past the misspelling of "kernel" at the very beginning of the first two paragraphs, in bold and all caps. I know that sounds horribly shallow and pedantic, but obvious misspellings tend to be a sign that something isn't well-written, and I just gave up after the second KERNAL. Does Medium not use proofreaders?
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:24 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:24 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: ambiverts that skew a certain degree.
posted by Segundus at 3:34 AM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 3:34 AM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
Depression isn't only or just being sad and that's such a hard thing to relate to others.
Boy howdy, this.
I'm on, roughly, my 50th year of depression and I can't recall being able to get across to a non-sufferer what living with this is like. They can't seem to comprehend that, even when you outwardly seem to be ok, you really, really aren't.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:39 AM on March 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
Boy howdy, this.
I'm on, roughly, my 50th year of depression and I can't recall being able to get across to a non-sufferer what living with this is like. They can't seem to comprehend that, even when you outwardly seem to be ok, you really, really aren't.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:39 AM on March 6, 2014 [8 favorites]
The introvert/extrovert distinction seems completely pointless internet identity politics anyway. We're all ambiverts that skew a certain degree.
The "certain degree" matters. Of course, most introverts aren't going to become monks and move to the top of a mountain, but if I take a Myers-Briggs I'm pretty much as far over on the I side as you can get. (N and T, too.) In my personal life this means that I pretty much never choose to interact with "E" people (seriously, all of my friends and family that I can think of are I), and when I have to do so in business, it is a grating, painful experience.
posted by sonic meat machine at 5:26 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
The "certain degree" matters. Of course, most introverts aren't going to become monks and move to the top of a mountain, but if I take a Myers-Briggs I'm pretty much as far over on the I side as you can get. (N and T, too.) In my personal life this means that I pretty much never choose to interact with "E" people (seriously, all of my friends and family that I can think of are I), and when I have to do so in business, it is a grating, painful experience.
posted by sonic meat machine at 5:26 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Apocryphon: "The introvert/extrovert distinction seems completely pointless internet identity politics anyway. We're all ambiverts that skew a certain degree."
On the other hand, most of us ambiverts aren't arrogant enough to think we're smarter than every single person who's ever found a category distinction useful in describing their experience.
posted by emmtee at 5:31 AM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, most of us ambiverts aren't arrogant enough to think we're smarter than every single person who's ever found a category distinction useful in describing their experience.
posted by emmtee at 5:31 AM on March 6, 2014 [3 favorites]
I can't recall being able to get across to a non-sufferer what living with this is like. They can't seem to comprehend that, even when you outwardly seem to be ok, you really, really aren't.
This, in so very many ways. I wish I could flag this as fantastic a thousand times.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:41 AM on March 6, 2014
This, in so very many ways. I wish I could flag this as fantastic a thousand times.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 5:41 AM on March 6, 2014
I think someone who has been to the place where she is actively/constantly having suicidal thoughts, and then gotten help, has the right to tell her story any damn way she pleases. I'm a little shocked at the mocking going on upthread. Would you stop if she had actually made an attempt and had some scars on her wrists? Would that be sincere/affecting enough?
The "introvert pretending to be extrovert" thing resonated with me, at least, even when I'm not depressed. Actually, I know I'm in trouble and need to step back when I can no longer do the act at all.
posted by emjaybee at 7:07 AM on March 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
The "introvert pretending to be extrovert" thing resonated with me, at least, even when I'm not depressed. Actually, I know I'm in trouble and need to step back when I can no longer do the act at all.
posted by emjaybee at 7:07 AM on March 6, 2014 [5 favorites]
We're all ambiverts that skew a certain degree.
...sometimes that degree is 100%, at which point calling them an "ambivert" is like calling #FF0000 "a little bit green."
I'm on, roughly, my 50th year of depression and I can't recall being able to get across to a non-sufferer what living with this is like. They can't seem to comprehend that, even when you outwardly seem to be ok, you really, really aren't.
My wife had major depression for years and I had no idea just how bad it was or how close she was to suicide she came, despite the fact that I spend basically all my non-working hours with her.
Nowadays she considers the depression completely gone -- but her outward personality and behavior have changed so little it's almost not noticeable.
posted by Foosnark at 7:24 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
...sometimes that degree is 100%, at which point calling them an "ambivert" is like calling #FF0000 "a little bit green."
I'm on, roughly, my 50th year of depression and I can't recall being able to get across to a non-sufferer what living with this is like. They can't seem to comprehend that, even when you outwardly seem to be ok, you really, really aren't.
My wife had major depression for years and I had no idea just how bad it was or how close she was to suicide she came, despite the fact that I spend basically all my non-working hours with her.
Nowadays she considers the depression completely gone -- but her outward personality and behavior have changed so little it's almost not noticeable.
posted by Foosnark at 7:24 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's a very hard think to describe let alone have anyone understand how it feels. Same thing with treatment, for those who want to understand but have their own misconceptions, you still get the "are you ok? Are you sure you're ok? Ok I'm just worried about you." And it's like look, I appreciate the concern. I appreciate the awareness and support, but also, I'm not going to flip out and jump out of a window. Sometimes I am quiet just because I am or maybe the meds are actually working and my mood is just level? Stop making it seem like I'm some delicate flower already. Those who recognize, get treatment, hang on, and keep trying are stronger than you think. We'll fall but we pretty much get up.
Foosnark, I'm sorry you're on your 50th year. I'm on my 35th and I get frustred thinking "wow, 35 years (I'm 42 but I would say aware of depression by the time I was 5) fo this shit? Enough already." But here we are, right? :)
posted by stormpooper at 8:19 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
Foosnark, I'm sorry you're on your 50th year. I'm on my 35th and I get frustred thinking "wow, 35 years (I'm 42 but I would say aware of depression by the time I was 5) fo this shit? Enough already." But here we are, right? :)
posted by stormpooper at 8:19 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's not me on my 50th year, that some someone I quoted. I'm 42, and my own depression comes and goes for a few months at a time, but is thankfully away more often than not.
posted by Foosnark at 8:35 AM on March 6, 2014
posted by Foosnark at 8:35 AM on March 6, 2014
I always describe it as the mental/emotional equivalent of those lead blankets the dentist drapes over you before taking X-rays. (And to a large part physical, too, for that matter.)
posted by gottabefunky at 8:58 AM on March 6, 2014
posted by gottabefunky at 8:58 AM on March 6, 2014
Medium does a funny thing to me where the fancy html templates and occasional publication of great writing lead me to believe everything I see there is great, and it takes me until the middle of a piece that I realize that they'd printed a student essay just to see if I'm paying attention.
posted by tempythethird at 10:08 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by tempythethird at 10:08 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Well "they" don't do anything. Medium's just a blog platform.
posted by sweetkid at 10:14 AM on March 6, 2014
posted by sweetkid at 10:14 AM on March 6, 2014
I wish this didn't resonate so much with me.
posted by dgran at 10:28 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by dgran at 10:28 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, most of us ambiverts aren't arrogant enough to think we're smarter than every single person who's ever found a category distinction useful in describing their experience.
I've been very many places on intro/extra scale in my time for all kinds reasons. Indeed, I'm sure if you tracked down everyone who's ever known me and conducted an in depth interview, you'd define an individual who, for different phases of his life, was outwardly quite different, with the changes way more common in the first twenty/twenty-five years of his life.
This makes me suspicious of folks, particularly younger, who have been so quick to embrace this "new" introvert identity. And it does seem a very recent thing. The last six months. All kinds of quick multiple-choice surveys, blog posts etc wherein this new definition of self has risen with great fanfare. Hurrah. I've found myself. This is who I am.
Except ...
One hard lesson my deep inner introvert had to learn any number of times before I finally "got it" is that social interaction (particularly with strangers) is pretty much always at least slightly scary, sometimes outright terrifying. Yet there can be great rewards in slipping out of my "comfort zone" and facing at least some of these fears, in recognizing that sometimes I must extrovert in order to grow (yes, I just used extrovert as a verb there). And sometimes this growth can be fucking liberating.
TLDR -- self-defining as introverted is fine but please don't take that as license to forever stop taking wild swings at things.
posted by philip-random at 10:35 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I've been very many places on intro/extra scale in my time for all kinds reasons. Indeed, I'm sure if you tracked down everyone who's ever known me and conducted an in depth interview, you'd define an individual who, for different phases of his life, was outwardly quite different, with the changes way more common in the first twenty/twenty-five years of his life.
This makes me suspicious of folks, particularly younger, who have been so quick to embrace this "new" introvert identity. And it does seem a very recent thing. The last six months. All kinds of quick multiple-choice surveys, blog posts etc wherein this new definition of self has risen with great fanfare. Hurrah. I've found myself. This is who I am.
Except ...
One hard lesson my deep inner introvert had to learn any number of times before I finally "got it" is that social interaction (particularly with strangers) is pretty much always at least slightly scary, sometimes outright terrifying. Yet there can be great rewards in slipping out of my "comfort zone" and facing at least some of these fears, in recognizing that sometimes I must extrovert in order to grow (yes, I just used extrovert as a verb there). And sometimes this growth can be fucking liberating.
TLDR -- self-defining as introverted is fine but please don't take that as license to forever stop taking wild swings at things.
posted by philip-random at 10:35 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I had a lot of trouble getting past the misspelling of "kernel" at the very beginning of the first two paragraphs, in bold and all caps. I know that sounds horribly shallow and pedantic, but obvious misspellings tend to be a sign that something isn't well-written, and I just gave up after the second KERNAL.
It's fixed. You can read it now.
posted by inigo2 at 10:52 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's fixed. You can read it now.
posted by inigo2 at 10:52 AM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
I always thought the difference between an introvert and an extrovert is how each feels after interacting with new people. Introverts typically become a bit exhausted, while extroverts feel a bit more energized. To reduce it to video game terms, it's like a terrain modifier, except the terrain is whether or not people are present.
I don't really think it has to do with books or partying, since there's plenty of social interactions that are dorky and/or educational (LARPing, book clubs, board game meetups) and there's also plenty of single serving entertainment that...isn't (reality TV, video games, reading blogs).
posted by FJT at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't really think it has to do with books or partying, since there's plenty of social interactions that are dorky and/or educational (LARPing, book clubs, board game meetups) and there's also plenty of single serving entertainment that...isn't (reality TV, video games, reading blogs).
posted by FJT at 11:57 AM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
My take on the introversion/extroversion division is one of skepticism, because people tack on so much extra meaning and expectations at how an idealized version of each is supposed to behave. The core definition- does one draw energy from the company of others, or from oneself, is fine. But all of these listicles and schmaltzy webcomics talking about how introverts are special elves out of Tolkien is really reminiscent of the self-identifying internet Asperger's Syndrome fad of the mid-00's.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:33 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:33 PM on March 6, 2014 [2 favorites]
Personally, I enjoy a good party and love conversation and bouncing ideas off of others. Which is somewhat of an extrovert trait. But I have a lot of imaginary conversations in my head, imagining how people would react to things I say, and using that as a way to preprocess interactions. Having conversations before they happen is a more introvert trait, I believe. So am I an extrovert so desperate for the attention that I imagine them in my head so I can get validation from simulated versions of people? Or am I an introvert, and when I go somewhere and people are interested and entertained by what I say, I can slip into myself for a second and go, "aha, my ideas do have a bearing on reality," thus affirming my core self? So which is it? Or maybe I just have social anxiety. Or am a narcissist.
posted by Apocryphon at 1:39 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:39 PM on March 6, 2014 [1 favorite]
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