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But who plays the wacky neighbor?
April 6, 2014 7:28 AM   Subscribe

Game of Thrones as a 70s sitcom. (SLYT)
posted by wensink (182 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite

 
Everything Charlie Jane Anders touches turns to gold.
posted by pony707 at 7:32 AM on April 6


That's what GoT has been missing: cheesy music and a laugh track.
posted by arcticseal at 7:35 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]


To be fair, a sort of "frightened diseased moan of despair" track would be more in keeping....

They got the 70s TV look down, too.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:38 AM on April 6


Popular GoT fan theories ( Not really) at The Toast

Quick overview of which GoT house has a real-world stand in ( at least at the start)

Avidly: The Happy Slave, The Unsullied And American Donre attacks

From Metafilter projects, a stop motion recap of the last season
posted by The Whelk at 7:39 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]


They got the 70s TV look down, too.

The cheery music and and very-much-of-its-time typeface reeled me in, but "Nick Waldo" is perfect.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:44 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]


There's also the Honest Trailer summary of seasons 1 to 3. Spoiler Warning.
posted by arcticseal at 7:45 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


Turns out the whole mess got started when Bran overheard Jaime and Cersi installing a new shower curtain and COMPLETELY misunderstood what was going on.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:47 AM on April 6 [7 favorites]


But who plays the wacky neighbor?
David Bradley bears an uncanny resemblance to Norman Fell.
posted by wensink at 7:51 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]


Did Anders touch this? It says "Produced by Garrison Dean," so I assume that's the guy that did the actual (excellent) work.
posted by Sokka shot first at 7:56 AM on April 6


Don Knotts steals the show as Hodor.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 7:58 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]


There's also the Honest Trailer summary of seasons 1 to 3. Spoiler Warning.

Did you mean to link to something?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:02 AM on April 6


I clearly should not post links before coffee.

Honest Trailer.
posted by arcticseal at 8:07 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


That Toast link of fan theories is marvellous.

Even Hodor will become unnerved on his quest with Bran. After a few months he will throw his hands up and stand, saying, “OK, screw this, screw the trees, screw the ravens, screw you guys, this sucks. I didn’t even want to come out here in the first place, but you guys had to be all ‘ooh Hodor, carry me Hodor.’ ‘Help me Hodor!’ ‘Hodor Hodor Hodor!’ Can you even say anything else?! Well. Screw that. I’m out. Hodor.”

posted by arcticseal at 8:09 AM on April 6 [4 favorites]


Tim Conway, Harvey Korman, Carol Burnett, and Paul Lynde better have cameos at some point.

Actually, Paul Lynde would have been great as the slave-warrior broker. Totally irritating in a different sort of way....
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:10 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]


24. The final book in the series, A Dream of Spring, will not actually be published in your lifetime.

Ha! The book series will be like a medieval church, built over generations. But even though it's not finished, book fans will continue to smugly claim the books are better.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on April 6


Adweek has collected some of the better Game of Thrones mashups, including the equally smart GoT as Seinfeld.
posted by wensink at 8:16 AM on April 6


Richard Kline would have made an awesome Bronn.
posted by cmfletcher at 8:18 AM on April 6


I say the Honest Trailer is the real find here.
posted by Fists O'Fury at 8:31 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]


Betty White would take them all down, and end up with a dragon.
posted by sammyo at 8:42 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


As a matter of interest, is there any humour in the real Game of Thrones? Sword & Sorcery always strikes me as one of those genres - rather like spy fiction and airport thrillers - where any attempt to introduce jokes just knocks away the foundations of the whole thing.

(I've never watched Game of Thrones, by the way. This question's motivated by genuine curiosity rather than any attempt at snark.)
posted by Paul Slade at 8:45 AM on April 6


Drunk Cersi is a delight forever.
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 AM on April 6


The blip.tv link The Whelk posted is pretty good!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:48 AM on April 6


There are occasional bits of humour--Podrick Payne's trip to the whorehouse, for example. (Which I think is TV-only but w/e).

Tyrion slapping seven kinds of snot out of Joffrey will always be an amusement.

"There is no word for thank you in Dothraki."

etc. Most of the humour is in the TV show, AFAICT. The books are grimgrimgrimgrimdarkdarkdarkdarkdark from start to finish, as I recall.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:59 AM on April 6


I think there's quite a bit of humor - more so on the show than the books, but there are some funny moments in the books as well. Mostly gallow humors, but still. Since the series is essentially deconstructing fantasy tropes (or at least reinventing them) humor doesn't really undo it.
posted by lunasol at 9:00 AM on April 6


There is humor in the books but nine times out of ten it comes from the mouth of Tyrion.
posted by Ber at 9:05 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]


There must have been a good clip of Charles Nelson Reilly from The Ghost and Mrs. Muir that they could have slipped in there.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:10 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]


As a matter of interest, is there any humour in the real Game of Thrones?

Yes, and often in unexpected places. Stannis correcting his brother's grammar was hilarious. Tyrion is the classic smart ass, with firing off quips like Legolas does arrows. His sometime bodyguard Bronn can brings laughs and in fact there should be a spinoff of Bronn and Tyrion traveling through the various lands. The Queen of Thrones, Olenna Tyrell, has a cutting wit that can be quite funny.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:12 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]


The Queen of Thorns Olenna Tyrell. Barbed wit and all that.
posted by bitdamaged at 9:16 AM on April 6


Also Margaey's hilariously blunt wedding night talk to her new husband Remy boiling down to " you wanna fuck my brother and then I'll finish it off? Or maybe we could dim the lights and you could pretend cause I'm not leaving this tent without a male heir inside me so lets find away to make this work.
posted by The Whelk at 9:26 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


The Queen of Thorns Olenna Tyrell. Barbed wit and all that.

And the Rose being the sigil of House Tyrell.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:32 AM on April 6


I was expecting an "All in the Family" tie-in somehow...
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 9:32 AM on April 6


I was thinking more Full House (yeah 80's/90's w/e)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:37 AM on April 6


Actually, Paul Lynde would have been great as the slave-warrior broker.

He'd be perfect as Littlefinger.
posted by The Tensor at 9:50 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


No humour?

[Tyrion introducing three barbarian chieftains and one mercenary to his noble father, a disdainful Tywin.]
Tywin: And who are these... companions of yours?

Tyrion: This is Shagga, son of Dolf, chieftain of the Stone Crows. Timett, son of Timett, ruler of the Burned Men. This fair maid is Chella, daughter of Cheyk, leader of the Black Ears. And here we have Bronn, son of...

Bronn: You wouldn't know him.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:53 AM on April 6 [7 favorites]


I was expecting an "All in the Family" tie-in somehow...

Me too.

The blip.tv link The Whelk posted is pretty good!

Momento Mori = Valar Morghulis. Aw geez, Edith. What's Latin for "highfalutin"?

I say the Honest Trailer is the real find here.

Ditto.

Speaking of TV comedies, Veep is back tonight too.
posted by fuse theorem at 10:04 AM on April 6


Honest Trailer

To be fair, "by any boobs necessary" is a pretty central conceit to most HBO and Showtime series, at least the ones with semi-historical costumes.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:54 AM on April 6


Tywin Lannister owning Joffrey in front of the Council never fails to get a laugh out of me. "Any man who must say, 'I am the King!' is no true king."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:39 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]


Postmodern Jukebox: Game of Thrones Theme - Jazz Version ft. Dave Koz
posted by homunculus at 11:50 AM on April 6 [3 favorites]


To be fair, "by any boobs necessary" is a pretty central conceit to most HBO and Showtime series, at least the ones with semi-historical costumes.

No need to qualify it; there's boobs in all of 'em, period and modern.

That said, there's also male nudity, though not nearly as often.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:09 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


HBO Should Show Dongs
posted by homunculus at 12:23 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


Les Rois Maudits (The Accursed Kings): The cult French novel that inspired George RR Martin
posted by homunculus at 12:45 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


Quick overview of which GoT house has a real-world stand in ( at least at the start)

Good link, but I'm not sure about the comparison between Balon Greyjoy and Ragnar Lothbrok. Balon has shown no interest in baby goats.
posted by homunculus at 1:12 PM on April 6


There is humor in the books but nine times out of ten it comes from the mouth of Tyrion.

Warning: Minor semi-spoilers:

Stannis (#teamstannisftw) can be pretty funny too. Of course, the TV show is kind of screwing up Stannis (IMHO):

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her, then. I will not suffer such abominations here. This is not King's Landing."
"Without a son of Winterfell to stand beside me, I can only hope to win the north by battle. That requires stealing a leaf from my brother's book. Not that Robert ever read one."

"Stannis ground his teeth. 'It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.'
That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, 'Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?'
'Any of you, I would think. Even the cook.'"

And of course Wyman "the Man" Manderly:
"Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey."
posted by dhens at 1:30 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]


Tywin Lannister owning Joffrey...

That is one of the best scenes in both the books and the show.
posted by dhens at 1:31 PM on April 6


I was expecting an "All in the Family" tie-in somehow...

If only Bea Arthur were still around. She could have played Tywin's counsin, 'Maude Lannister'. She'd just drop in for an episode to care to Tyrion as he recovers from his wounds.
posted by crank at 1:34 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]


If only Bea Arthur were still around. She could have played Tywin's counsin, 'Maude Lannister'.

Hell, she actually would have made a great Genna Lannister (Tywin's sister in the books), especially as Genna psychologically dominates her small, meek husband. (Who, though a Frey, is sadly not named Walder. As in, "Gods'll get you for that, Walder...").
posted by dhens at 1:37 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]


The fact that the show makes Stannis's decision to go North look like Melisandre's (and not done on the advice of Davos, as in the books) not only makes Stannis less sympathetic, but removes the opportunity for this great line:

“Yes, I should have come sooner. If not for my Hand, I might not have come at all. Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”
posted by dhens at 1:38 PM on April 6


Gods there's just so much in ASoIaF. Stannis is fascinating. Would probably be a perfectly serviceable king, and create much-needed stability, if he weren't so unloved and so petulant about it.

Renly, meanwhile, would have been able to unite the people, but was completely unprepared for Winter, so there's almost a question of whether his assassination was a benefit to Westeros.

In my D&D group, there's a philosophical question going around about whether Lawful Good makes any sense as an alignment at all. The argument is phrased in ASoIaF terms, of course, with one friend saying she considers Ned Stark to be a good example of LG, and the other saying she believes Ned Stark proves that LG is untenable.

I adore this series.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:45 PM on April 6


Les Rois Maudits (The Accursed Kings): The cult French novel that inspired George RR Martin
The 6-part TV adaptation from 1972 is on YouTube: 1 The Iron King (with English subtitles), 2 The Strangled Queen, 3 The Poisoned Crown, 4 The Royal Succession, 5 The She-Wolf, 6 The Lily and the Lion. It made a big splash at the time (40% of the viewership per episode1), and even had sex and violence (kinky!).
1. This was France in 1972. There were only 2 channels and Les Rois Maudits was on the second one, hence the bad ratings. Lots of people still didn't know how to switch channels (no remote control yet) so they stayed on first (default) channel.
posted by elgilito at 1:50 PM on April 6 [10 favorites]


Thanks, elgilito! That might be FPP worthy.
posted by homunculus at 2:05 PM on April 6


Yeah, hang on elgilito, because you have two FPPs there. One is this show. The other is this insanity about France only having two TV channels in the seventies, and even then most people not knowing they had THAT many.
posted by nushustu at 2:06 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


Les Rois Maudits (The Accursed Kings) miniseries

@elgilito Is it goodgood TV like GoT or goodbad like I Claudius?
posted by wensink at 2:10 PM on April 6


"Postmodern Jukebox: Game of Thrones Theme - Jazz Version ft. Dave Koz"


Damn... that was so smooth I had to go open a fresh jar of mayonnaise.
posted by mikeand1 at 2:23 PM on April 6


They should do something with The Rains of Castamere next.
posted by homunculus at 2:32 PM on April 6


There is humor in the books but nine times out of ten it comes from the mouth of Tyrion.

Dolorous Edd gets no love?

"The dead are likely dull fellows, full of tedious complaints – 'the ground's too cold, my gravestone should be larger, why does he get more worms than I do...'"

"Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we'll be next. Likely I'll be the first too. 'Edd,' they'll say, 'dying's no excuse for laying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you've got first watch tonight.' Well, I shouldn't be so gloomy. Might be I'll die before they work it out."

"There are worse ways to die than warm and drunk. I knew a brother drowned himself in wine once. It was a poor vintage, though, and his corpse did not improve it."
posted by nubs at 3:26 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]


Is it goodgood TV like GoT or goodbad like I Claudius?
For the French people of 1972, it was very much like GoT: highly exciting TV they kept talking about (I know elderly women who still talk how yummy Jean Piat was, 40 years later; some critics complained about the sex and violence). However, it's basically a 9-hour filmed play: painted backdrops, stage-like acting with long dialogues etc. Very well-made (and expensive) for the time but probably not suitable for modern audiences.
posted by elgilito at 3:29 PM on April 6


Every On-Screen Death In Game Of Thrones, In Under 3 Minutes

Game of Thrones - In Memoriam

(Spoilers for the TV series.)
posted by homunculus at 3:52 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


RE: Humor

I've been enjoying the GoT marathon on HBO this weekend, and there's definitely humor. It just goes by so quick it's hard to catch. One moment you're chuckling at a well-lobbed quip, and then the next there's blood all over the screen.

My favorite: early in Season 1, after dealing with his headstrong daughters over breakfast, Ned Stark says to Catelyn "War is easier than daughters".
posted by magstheaxe at 4:00 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


Come and knock on our door.....
Winter is coming for you......
Where the treacheries are hers and hers and his,
Throne's Company too?
posted by Renoroc at 4:18 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]


I've been enjoying the GoT marathon on HBO this weekend, and there's definitely humor.

Two of my favorite scenes: Edmure and Brynden Tully - Arrow scene

Tywin Lannister changes Small council table
posted by homunculus at 4:27 PM on April 6


ASOIAF has its moments.

Kraznys [in High Valyrian]: I will feed her jellied dog brains, and a fine rich stew of red octopus and unborn puppy.
Missandei: Many delicious dishes can be had here, he says.

Or

“His elk?” said Bran, wonderstruck.
“His elk?” said Meera, startled.
“His ravens?” said Jojen.
“Hodor?” said Hodor.

And the bit that I liked about Edd was his reply:

Edd: Though I would sooner it were wine than water. There are worse ways to die than warm and drunk. I knew a brother drowned himself in wine once. It was a poor vintage, though, and his corpse did not improve it.
Jon: You drank the wine?
Edd: It's an awful thing to find a brother dead. You'd have need of a drink as well, Lord Snow.


>In my D&D group, there's a philosophical question going around about whether Lawful Good makes any sense as an alignment at all. The argument is phrased in ASoIaF terms, of course, with one friend saying she considers Ned Stark to be a good example of LG, and the other saying she believes Ned Stark proves that LG is untenable.

Lawful Good, not Lawful Stupid. Class skill for Paladins.
posted by ersatz at 5:12 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


There's also a subtle bit of nerd humor in one of the books, where someone notes some unknown house sigils, including "green arrow" and "blue beetle."
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:43 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


NOW BEGINS THE TIME WHEN WE AS A NATION MAKE UP OUR OWN WORDS TO THE GAME OF THRONES THEME
posted by The Whelk at 5:51 PM on April 6 [6 favorites]


HODOR
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:04 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


The lyrics to my version may or may not contain the phrase "Boobs boobs lots of boobs boobs."
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:11 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]


It will probably be overshadowed by the new season of GOT, but AMC's new series TURN looks promising.
posted by homunculus at 6:23 PM on April 6


There's also a subtle bit of nerd humor in one of the books, where someone notes some unknown house sigils, including "green arrow" and "blue beetle."
Also Ned's friend Howland Reed. People seem to have trouble pinning down the exact location of his keep, Greywater Watch. Like it moves around or something.
posted by dumbland at 6:45 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


A man's got to have a code.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:52 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


I like Prince Oberyn and Ser Dontos, but it's going to take some time for me to get used to new Daario.
posted by Dr. Zira at 8:19 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


is it wrong that Jamie's short hair is weirder for me then not having a right hand?
posted by The Whelk at 8:30 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]


As a matter of interest, is there any humour in the real Game of Thrones? Sword & Sorcery always strikes me as one of those genres

GASP. Game of Thrones is in no way Sword&Sorcery! *clutches pearls*
posted by Justinian at 8:49 PM on April 6


A man's got to have a code.

Bronn gets all the best lines.
posted by Justinian at 8:50 PM on April 6


Aww, I miss last season's Daario, too! He was The Beautiful Man.

Sansa has every reason to be depressed but can we not linger on it too long, please? Yes, we know, your entire storyline is LIFE IS UNFAIR AND I HATE IT!

I would watch entire seasons of either Bronn and Tyrion, Gentlemen Adventurers or Arya and The Hound Go Pub Crawling.

Bring on the Royal Wedding!
posted by misha at 8:57 PM on April 6


Also Ned's friend Howland Reed. People seem to have trouble pinning down the exact location of his keep, Greywater Watch. Like it moves around or something

OK, I guess I'm not enough of a nerd to get this reference...
posted by dhens at 9:02 PM on April 6


Howl's Moving Castle
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:11 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


all Sansa Depression is just growing reserves of strength where she expertly manages to capture the throne and bring peace to Westeros and stay the Coming Winter forever and ever right? rRight?

RIGHT?!
posted by The Whelk at 9:17 PM on April 6


Brienne and Jamie are buddies. I love that.
posted by homunculus at 9:29 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]


I like that Shae actually has, like, motivations and a personality and things. Unlike in the book where she is essentially a prop with no inner life.
posted by Justinian at 9:38 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]


No-one pointed out that it was the Hound and not Bronn who said the line about a man needing a code. Probably because everyone was busy laughing at me.
posted by Justinian at 10:13 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]


all Sansa Depression is just growing reserves of strength where she expertly manages to capture the throne and bring peace to Westeros and stay the Coming Winter forever and ever right? rRight?

RIGHT?!


I know it's hard to swallow, but I think her friendship with Dontos Hollard will help her out.
posted by dhens at 11:03 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]


A few thoughts:

In the books, the Thenn are the most "civilized" of the Free Folk, with a hereditary monarchy and metalworking. In the show, they are apparently punk-rock cannibals.

The changed chronology of some characters' arrival to King's Landing means that one of the most disturbing sex scenes in ASOIAF will (presumably) not take place. #altarsex

I'm glad to see Tywin Lannister acting more like a proper "villain" in this episode, as opposed to his touchy-feely (show-only) scenes with Arya and acting as the voice of reason to the idiot psychopath boy-king.

The scene at the inn with Polliver was good (more satisfying than Arya's scene with the random Frey men at the end of season 3) but I am not sure I liked how "sweet" it played out with the Hound and Arya being BFFs with her getting her own pony. Also, did the Hound get wounded as badly in the in the show as he was in the books?
posted by dhens at 11:13 PM on April 6


I haven't read the books, but as they were riding off he didn't look to me as if he had any serious injuries.
posted by homunculus at 11:18 PM on April 6


Brienne and Jamie are buddies. I love that.

Except for the scene in the Harrenhall baths -- which the show did beautifully -- the usually sex-crazy TV show actually has not played up the sexual tension between the two as much as the books did, in part of course because we can't hear the inner thoughts of (some of) the characters like we can in the books. (Examples: Jaime getting an erection when seeing Brienne nude, Brienne thinking that Jaime looks "half like a god," and Brienne murmuring his name when she is delirious).

When Jaime came to rescue Brienne from the bear, he had some dialogue that I would have liked to see in the show. At one point he asks if Brienne is a maiden (she abashedly nods her head) and Jaime says "good, I only rescue maidens." Then when Brienne asks why Jaime came back, he answers "I dreamed of you" (which he had).

Though, in this episode, Jaime does make a sly hint at Brienne's attractiveness by saying that she looks like a Lannister (who are famed for their good looks).
posted by dhens at 11:36 PM on April 6


I thought he said she had the hair, "if not the looks". It was quick anyway.
In the books, the Thenn are the most "civilized" of the Free Folk, with a hereditary monarchy and metalworking. In the show, they are apparently punk-rock cannibals.
The show had its way a bit with the Dothraki too, so I guess this isn't too surprising.
I'm glad to see Tywin Lannister acting more like a proper "villain" in this episode, as opposed to his touchy-feely (show-only) scenes with Arya and acting as the voice of reason to the idiot psychopath boy-king.
What Tywin did hurt almost as much as the Red Wedding. Jerk.
posted by dumbland at 12:51 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]


So what do those of you who've read the books think of the actor playing Oberyn Martell? Does he fit the part?
posted by homunculus at 1:11 AM on April 7


The changed chronology of some characters' arrival to King's Landing means that one of the most disturbing sex scenes in ASOIAF will (presumably) not take place. #altarsex


-SPOILER WARNING-

Yes, it will (episode 4.03). It will even be a bit more "rapey" than in the books it seems.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 3:22 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]


NOW BEGINS THE TIME WHEN WE AS A NATION MAKE UP OUR OWN WORDS TO THE GAME OF THRONES THEME

anamanaguchi has the one true answer.
posted by emptythought at 4:45 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]


What Tywin did hurt almost as much as the Red Wedding. Jerk.

So hard to watch. I'm glad they gave it the weight it deserved. It would have been easy to cut it out entirely or gloss over it with a line of dialog.
posted by Rock Steady at 4:49 AM on April 7


wensink: when you get a chance can you fix the tags? These are going to be pretty useless.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:26 AM on April 7


anamanaguchi has the one true answer

Nonsense. The one true answer is that it has no words.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:44 AM on April 7


So no one got lucky last night, on a show filled with sex. Except Arya in violent and Freudian like way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:12 AM on April 7


@Navelgazer Done!

Notable discovery made last night: Sky Atlantic airs Thronecast, a panel show featuring fan reaction and interviews with GoT cast members, immediately after each episode.

Notable discovery made last night #2: Hearing Maisie Williams discuss Arya's character arc is nowhere near as interesting as listening to her talk with The Hound about the naming of swords.
posted by wensink at 7:28 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]


After the Red Viper decided to bed the male whore as well, my wife was pumping her fist in the air. This will not end well.
posted by Ber at 7:49 AM on April 7


The only thing I'm not sure about re: the casting of the Red Viper is that they aged up most characters by anything from a few years to a decade but they appear to have aged down Oberyn Martell considerably. Dude should be a lot older.
posted by Justinian at 8:37 AM on April 7


So what do those of you who've read the books think of the actor playing Oberyn Martell? Does he fit the part?

He fits; he's not quite my mental picture of Oberyn, but he's close enough. I know there was a bit of controversy, as the Dornishmen had been described as "Mediterranean" by GRRM in some interview, which some interpreted as meaning North Africa, so his casting was felt to be giving away a role that should have been filled by a minority actor.

That said, he seems to have the personality down - the Red Viper of Dorne is a threatening, unpredictable man know for his...appetites (along with some other tendencies which I won't share right now as they are minor spoliers), which they did a very good job of showing rather than telling us in his brothel scenes. But he's definitely a character who has the potential to upset a lot of things in King's Landing, so they got his threatening nature across just fine.

After the Red Viper decided to bed the male whore as well, my wife was pumping her fist in the air. This will not end well.

There's a lot to like about the Red Viper.

I like that Shae actually has, like, motivations and a personality and things. Unlike in the book where she is essentially a prop with no inner life.

She is more developed here. But I'm wondering how they are going to handle certain upcoming events as a result.

I'm glad to see Tywin Lannister acting more like a proper "villain" in this episode, as opposed to his touchy-feely (show-only) scenes with Arya and acting as the voice of reason to the idiot psychopath boy-king.

I've enjoyed how the show has fleshed Tywin out a bit; in the books he's a cold ruthless man (though he still is the voice of reason to Joffrey; he just doesn't brook any of Joff's blustery crap), though there is some mention of him having a soft side as well, before his wife died. But we never get to see it. He is amongst the best players of the Game of Thrones, but it's nice to see him have some moments in the show where we see him be something a little more than the calculating genius who moves people about the game board.

The scene at the inn with Polliver was good (more satisfying than Arya's scene with the random Frey men at the end of season 3) but I am not sure I liked how "sweet" it played out with the Hound and Arya being BFFs with her getting her own pony. Also, did the Hound get wounded as badly in the in the show as he was in the books?

Arya and the Hound should get their own spinoff series and travel Westeros and right wrongs together. They could call it "What's a Lommy?" But that isn't going to happen.

The point of the scene was not only seeing just how vicious Arya has become; it was her and the Hound both realizing that they need each other - on their own, they are going to be picked off in this world; the War of the Five Kings is winding down and the Lannister troops are out "restoring the King's peace", so they can't expect to just slide along like before, when armies were moving about and everyone had bigger worries than who else was on the road. And no, I don't think the Hound got wounded as bad as he was in the books during that fight...
posted by nubs at 8:57 AM on April 7 [4 favorites]


GoT has no central protagonist, and that's a good thing
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 AM on April 7


I like that Shae actually has, like, motivations and a personality and things. Unlike in the book where she is essentially a prop with no inner life.

She is more developed here. But I'm wondering how they are going to handle certain upcoming events as a result.


I don't think Shae is long for this world.

The trailers show Cersei repeating Tyrion's line about "joy turning to ashes". And we saw Cersei's spy come in to report to her that she didn't find the right whore the last time.

Storywise, it makes sense because between Cersei's annoyance at having been played back in S2 (poor Ros!), and whatever slight she perceives from Tyrion this time around (I hope it's anger over Joffrey's death... but I doubt it we'll be so lucky), Shae is going to have to Pay.

Metawise, if Shae being around complicates "how they are going to handle certain upcoming events", it makes sense to off her. Especially since she is a popular character so her death will generate some good pain in the audience while eliminating a character who had become a narrative dead end.

Which is a shame, because I liked her particular rendition of the hooker with a heart of gold trope.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:38 AM on April 7


Changing Shae's fate would be the single biggest and most important change to the series to date, though. It's hugely important for the development of a certain character or characters. I'm tryin' not to be too spoilery here but you know what I mean.
posted by Justinian at 9:44 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]


So what do those of you who've read the books think of the actor playing Oberyn Martell? Does he fit the part?

It appears, frankly, that Pedro Pascal has had some make-up done to make him a bit more swarthy. I would have loved to see Alexander Siddig in that role.

(though he still is the voice of reason to Joffrey; he just doesn't brook any of Joff's blustery crap)

Of course. I just mean that the way it played out in the show made Tywin seem a bit more, I dunno, relatable.

And no, I don't think the Hound got wounded as bad as he was in the books during that fight...

Indeed. I wonder if we'll see the Quiet Isle in the show?

Shae is going to have to Pay

Oh man. I really wonder (worry?) about how non-readers will perceive this turn of events.
posted by dhens at 9:46 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]


Oh man. I really wonder (worry?) about how non-readers will perceive this turn of events.

Knowing that the story is not going to follow my lowest-common-denominator super predictable prediction amps my excitement level for where things are going to go.

That it's a twist when someone doesn't die says something about fans of this series, methinks.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:59 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]


I don't think Shae is long for this world.

If they change Shae's arc in the way you are suggesting, I'm going to very fucking mad - Shae's arc has a great deal of impact on another character's arc. The show's writer's muck about with that at their peril. If that happens, I may just have to find out about their wedding plans.

Indeed. I wonder if we'll see the Quiet Isle in the show?

I think we will, they just didn't want to move that particular piece of "the Hound and Arya show" up in terms of timelines. Pretty easy to have something else happen that requires it.
posted by nubs at 10:10 AM on April 7 [1 favorite]


25 Things They Altered For TV In “Game Of Thrones” That Will Change The Way You Watch It - "Essentially, in the books, everyone’s younger, uglier, and they’re always eating. This has no spoilers for the first three seasons!"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:27 AM on April 7 [2 favorites]


Justinian: "The only thing I'm not sure about re: the casting of the Red Viper is that they aged up most characters by anything from a few years to a decade but they appear to have aged down Oberyn Martell considerably. Dude should be a lot older."

Nope. The actor is 39, the character (in the books, anyway) is 42. Doran gives a rundown of his, Elia's, and Oberyn's ages in Areo Hotah's first chapter of AFFC, which I happened to re-read yesterday.

It may seem like he's supposed to be older because his oldest daughter (Obara) is 28, but nope, Oberyn just started having sex at a very, very young age.
posted by ocherdraco at 10:55 AM on April 7


(For completeness: Doran is 52 in AFFC. Elia was nine years younger, Oberyn ten. Obara is listed as "near to thirty" in the chapter, but the appendix specifically says "eight-and-twenty.")
posted by ocherdraco at 10:57 AM on April 7


Nope. The actor is 39, the character (in the books, anyway) is 42. Doran gives a rundown of his, Elia's, and Oberyn's ages in Areo Hotah's first chapter of AFFC, which I happened to re-read yesterday.

But like I said they aged up all the other characters to a considerable degree. For example, the Viper in the books was a couple years older than Ned Stark. In the show he is, what, 15 years younger? I'd say that qualifies as "dude should be a lot older"!
posted by Justinian at 2:23 PM on April 7


Ah, I misunderstood your complaint—I thought you were saying he was too young considering his age in the books, which is a complaint I've seen elsewhere (made by people who assume he must be older than he is given the number and age of his children).
posted by ocherdraco at 3:44 PM on April 7


Huh, I had no idea until I read the AV Club recap that the sourse of the Valyrian steel was Ned Stark’s sword Ice.
posted by homunculus at 4:39 PM on April 7


Game Of Thrones leaves HBO GO in a bloody pile on the ground
posted by homunculus at 4:39 PM on April 7


Ocherdraco: Yeah, if all of the other characters were the ages they appear in the novels Oberyn wouldn't be out of line even if I think he looks younger than I would prefer even for the novel Oberyn but I was definitely look at it in context of the TV characters. Guy looks like he could be Ned Stark's kid (in age) rather than a slightly older peer.
posted by Justinian at 5:18 PM on April 7


Oh, this isn't a random meaningless complaint. I think it has an impact on his character since it is important that he have been roughly the same age as his sister during Robert's Rebellion, and for him to have been old enough to have participated in tourneys with Rhaeger. Important from a characterization standpoint, I mean. It's important that his blood fued with the Lannisters be based on a visceral and immediate hatred from stuff he experienced while a young adult rather than based on stuff he more or less only heard about second hand while a child. He's not Danaerys for whom all of these events are history and not something lived through.

But TV Oberyn really seems too young to have been an adult during Robert's Rebellion, doesn't he? Or are they just playing fast and loose with the character ages and the timeline?
posted by Justinian at 5:23 PM on April 7


sparklemotion, as someone who read the books, your comment is so fascinating to me, and I really wish I could be around to see how you react to certain events coming up this season ...

As for Arya, the Hound, and the Quiet Isle, I'm really curious about how they deal with them for the rest of the season. I think in the book, the events of last night's episode were in Arya's second-to-last chapter. I think there are two possibilities:

(very light spoilers!)

1. We see a lot of the "this is what the War did to the regular people" stuff that was in Book 4, but which the show may not otherwise have time for.

2. There's some stuff that happened in the book between the Red Wedding and Arya's pub-killing - maybe this will happen post-pub instead. Actually, the Hound made brief mention of one of these things last night ...
posted by lunasol at 5:27 PM on April 7


But TV Oberyn really seems too young to have been an adult during Robert's Rebellion, doesn't he? Or are they just playing fast and loose with the character ages and the timeline?

He seems believable as roughly the same age as most of the other people of his generation: Jaime, Cersei, Littlefinger, Lysa, Renly. He does seem younger than Ned or Catelyn Stark, but I think they're the outliers, and you could reasonably believe that they would look older because of the harsh climate of the North ... or something. Really, the actors who played Ned and Catelyn probably should have been younger ...

In the books, the rebellion happened just 13 years before the start of the first book. In the show it seems to have been more like 15 or 16 years, with all the aging up. That would make Oberyn in his late 30s, which I can believe.

the Dornishmen had been described as "Mediterranean" by GRRM in some interview,

I always read them as Spanish in the books ...
posted by lunasol at 5:36 PM on April 7


Yeah, I guess it's unfair to compare him solely to Ned and Catelyn since (as you say) they were aged up considerably more than most characters. He does seem a peer to Jaime, Cersei, Renly et al.
posted by Justinian at 5:38 PM on April 7


The ratings came in for the premiere; it's the most watched episode of any HBO series since the series finale of The Sopranos. Not bad.

Write, George, write.

Hah just kidding. I think Benioff and Weiss will do a better job at this point anyway.
posted by Justinian at 5:48 PM on April 7


GoT characters as late 80s-mid 90s characters


Joffery is perfect.
posted by The Whelk at 5:50 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]


( I sometimes forget that, despite it being a show with princesses and dragons in it, the show is a massive, mainstream hit . Post LoTR movies world man.)
posted by The Whelk at 5:51 PM on April 7


You're not kidding. My dad watches Game of Thrones. If you knew him you'd realize how shocking that is. He usually can't stand "weird" things.
posted by Justinian at 5:53 PM on April 7


Oh man. I really wonder (worry?) about how non-readers will perceive this turn of events.

sparklemotion, as someone who read the books, your comment is so fascinating to me, and I really wish I could be around to see how you react to certain events coming up this season

As long as this thread stays pretty much spoiler-safe*, I'll happily pop in up in here (and the other threads for this season) with my reactions/uninformed theories each week.

Two Swords
*TBH, the thread has already veered perhaps a little too far (but I don't begrudge the book-readers from wanting to be able to discuss from a place of non-ignorance), I'll stay if the spoiler warnings stay consistent.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:41 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]


Huh, I had no idea until I read the AV Club recap that the sourse of the Valyrian steel was Ned Stark’s sword Ice.

That's why they showed Ned using it (and then it being used on Ned) right before the cold open. Also, Tywin throws the wolf pelt in which it was wrapped into the fires of the forge.

We should see the second sword that Tywin has made from it next week.
posted by dhens at 6:55 PM on April 7


I'll happily pop in up in here (and the other threads for this season) with my reactions/uninformed theories each week.

Awesome. I am endlessly entertained by smart theories from people who haven't read the books!
posted by lunasol at 7:08 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]


That's why they showed Ned using it (and then it being used on Ned) right before the cold open. Also, Tywin throws the wolf pelt in which it was wrapped into the fires of the forge.

Ah, okay. I didn't make the connection.
posted by homunculus at 7:23 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]


This Is The Car The Game Of Thrones World Could Build
posted by homunculus at 7:24 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]


More on the swords: Game of Thrones Season 4: Inside the Episode #1
posted by homunculus at 5:00 PM on April 8


It's a Man's Man's Man's Westeros
posted by Sys Rq at 10:18 AM on April 9 [1 favorite]


GAME OF GOATS (Game of Thrones Goat Version)
posted by homunculus at 3:52 PM on April 9 [4 favorites]


This Infographic Shows Each Country’s Most “Popular” Game of Thrones Character, America Is The Worst
posted by homunculus at 3:32 PM on April 13


That infographic is clearly wrong, everyone loves Tyrion.
posted by arcticseal at 3:38 PM on April 13 [2 favorites]


We Do Not Have Enough Wall Space For All These Stylish Game of Thrones Prints
posted by homunculus at 5:41 PM on April 13


That infographic is clearly wrong, everyone loves Tyrion.

At least everyone who shares his interests.
posted by homunculus at 5:44 PM on April 13 [1 favorite]


You're a good egg, Jack Gleeson.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:00 PM on April 13 [4 favorites]


That was intense.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:49 PM on April 13


Was that Gleeson singing "The Rains of Castamere" during the end credits?
posted by homunculus at 10:05 PM on April 13


Nope. Sigur Ros (they were in the episode, too— he threw coins at them).
posted by ocherdraco at 10:07 PM on April 13 [3 favorites]


Ah! Nice!
posted by homunculus at 10:12 PM on April 13


Game of Thrones star Kit Harington on working with Sigur Ros: “I geeked out”
posted by homunculus at 11:41 PM on April 13


sparklemotion, as someone who read the books, your comment is so fascinating to me, and I really wish I could be around to see how you react to certain events coming up this season ...

The Lion and the Rose posted by sparklemotion at 6:16 AM on April 14 [2 favorites]


Indeed, Tommen is King now. How the politics of that situation play out from here is interesting to watch. And I found it funny how much Oberyn made of Cersei no longer being Queen Regent...only to have her become Queen Regent again...

There are multiple murder suspects, and I like how the show (as opposed to the book, where you are just left utterly clueless) takes some time to highlight everyone who is potentially a suspect in the moments leading up to the poisoning - you get several shots of faces, particularly around the cup the King was using - all of whom have credible motives and opportunities.
posted by nubs at 11:11 AM on April 14 [1 favorite]


Nubs, with respect: you haven't read the books closely enough. You can easily eliminate many of the suspects just by reading that chapter.

You also know exactly who did it if you read carefully. All the clues are there, not just in the wedding chapter but in other character POV chapters too.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:25 AM on April 14 [1 favorite]


Also, Tommen is going to die. Whether by accident or 'accident,' that kid is going to snuff it. Maybe chasing Ser Pounce off a battlement or something.

Same goes for Myrcella, I'm pretty sure. Whoever consolidates enough power to get their keister on the World's Most Uncomfortable Chair simply cannot afford to let either of them live.

Or so goes the usual trope...
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:31 AM on April 14


fffm - I know exactly who did it based on the books; I'm trying to maintain some mystery here for the non-readers. The scene as initially presented in the books is much more chaotic. The show, I felt, was quite deliberate in giving you a glimpse of several characters and their relation to the cup in order to give the viewers a mystery to follow.

I don't expect any changes, but hey - you never know.
posted by nubs at 11:33 AM on April 14 [1 favorite]


I suspect a change to the identity of the killer would necessitate an entire plot change. All the Houses have their own plots and designs, and that House--and the killer who is a member of it--is no different. They want their own on the throne, and now they just need to manipulate to get the right spouse.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:37 AM on April 14


..which brings to mind a couple of very interesting pairings, depending on who lives until Book 7.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:40 AM on April 14


Like I said, not expecting a change - and the setup last night leads me to believe there is no change - but also open to the fact that the TV show doesn't necessarily always follow the books.
posted by nubs at 11:41 AM on April 14


I like how we got two dick jokes right after each other right before some nice Loras/Oberyln eye-fucking.
posted by The Whelk at 11:43 AM on April 14


I know it doesn't follow exactly, but it follows pretty closely within the restraints of the medium.

Changing the killer's identity is basically saying "Right, we've forked this. Book's gonna do one thing, and we are going in a totally and completely different direction."

I have the feeling that D2 know that would not fly at all with bookfans. They've taken enough risks as it is; that would be a step too far I think.

Loras should be bareass naked at all times. End of discussion.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:44 AM on April 14


George R.R. Martin: Wedding Planner
posted by Sys Rq at 12:03 PM on April 14


I found this episode really interesting to watch precisely because it took a bunch of things that were subtext in the book and made them text, AND it was written by George RR Martin, so we can reasonably assume they are cannon:

- The party responsible for Joffrey's murder. I sorta pieced it together from the books, with some help from the internet, but the show makes it much more explicit. (at least it seemed that way to me, as someone who already knew the answer)

- Brienne and Jaime's feelings for each other. I'm honestly kind of annoyed by this, though I'm not sure exactly why. I liked that in the books, it's this subtle thing that's secondary to their "professional" relationship and respect for each other - that seems more in keeping with the characters.

- Loras leaving the table in disgust after the jester show depicts Renly being murdered. Of course, the show was much more explicit about their relationship, but it's also interesting to consider that show Loras felt so comfortable expressing his disgust AND leaving the table when he's also a member of the Kingsguard, and bodes interestingly for future Loras developments.

I'm also really curious about where they're going with Theon's plot. Last night's events with Roose didn't happen in the books until much later.

I cannot WAIT until next week. But I feel like I'm going to be saying that all season.
posted by lunasol at 12:10 PM on April 14


he party responsible for Joffrey's murder. I sorta pieced it together from the books, with some help from the internet, but the show makes it much more explicit. (at least it seemed that way to me, as someone who already knew the answer)

I couldn't help feel that it was very obvious, but the reaction I'm seeing from those who haven't read the books is making me think it wasn't. I'm seeing some crazy theories out there.

(n.b. my wife - a non-book reader - has it nailed, but I'm refusing to confirm it).
posted by nubs at 12:18 PM on April 14 [2 favorites]


Ooh, what are the crazy theories you're seeing??
posted by lunasol at 12:22 PM on April 14


It would definitely be obvious if you already know the answer, but speaking as someone who doesn't: They set up a lot of possibilities. There was hardly anyone there who wasn't explicitly shown to have a strong motive.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:23 PM on April 14 [1 favorite]


I haven't read up to this point so I had no idea who the murderer is but I did rewatch the wedding scene on HBO Go right now to look for clues and wow, yeah, if you're looking for it it's all there.
posted by The Whelk at 12:39 PM on April 14


Which is similar to the book, a close re-read of the scene brings it out.
posted by nubs at 12:40 PM on April 14


1. Unless I'm forgetting something, the books right now have us so we "know" who killed Joffrey about as much as we "know" Syrio is dead. So, like, 99% probably yeah we know, but he's not ripping anything apart if he goes in another direction with it at this point.

2. They did a great job with the mystery. Yes, for those of us who know the answer, it was "obvious," but no more obvious than any other of the many major suspects. We've just got some confirmation bias to rock.

3. Loved that the first third of the episode was spent with the one character more detestable than Joffrey. Made everything feel kind of ambiguous afterwards.
posted by Navelgazer at 1:58 PM on April 14


In the Unsullied Recap on Winter-is-Coming Oz says that the consensus among the group of Unsullied with whom he discussed the episode was that Cersei is responsible for the events shown. All I can say is that I have absolutely no idea how anyone could so obviously, completely, and terribly misread the characterizations we've been show. Cersei's primary and defining characteristic in both the books and on the show is that she would do anything -- absolutely anything -- to protect her children. The idea that she could be responsible is patently absurd and anyone who could believe it needs to watch more carefully.

The bit at the end of the siege of King's Landing isn't on point for obvious reasons.
posted by Justinian at 2:31 PM on April 14 [1 favorite]


Why People Pirate Game of Thrones, a Global Cost Breakdown
posted by homunculus at 3:26 PM on April 14


As an "Unsullied" (I like that term) the idea that Cersei would be behind it is nuts to me. She's probably the only person who has any feelings of love towards Joffrey, and one of the few who wouldn't strategically benefit from having him out of the picture.

I also hope that Shae actually got on that boat.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:48 PM on April 14 [1 favorite]


Sigur Rós - The Rains of Castamere.
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on April 14 [2 favorites]


Yeah, the Cersei idea is the one that I was referring to earlier in terms of "crazy theories". It just doesn't hold any water, and would be so out of keeping with the character as presented...I'm a little boggled at the thought, and that some fans are giving it such credibility so far.
posted by nubs at 8:00 PM on April 14


I would assume the thinkng there is that Cersei's intended target was not Joffrey. Margery, maybe.

Given that assumption, small details in the show (Cersei getting mysterious medicine for an ailment never mentioned before, and choosing not to get the medicine from Maester Pycell, as well as her weird insistence that any leftovers be fed not to the hungry poor but to the dogs(!)) take on a sinister cast.

I read the books and know who is responsible, but I think the show did a good job of making nearly everyone at the Purpke Wedding--from vengeful Prince Oberon to the sad and fasting Sansa--into a possible suspect.
posted by misha at 10:30 PM on April 14


I can see it. Out of everyone, Cersei probably has the most to gain from Joffrey's death. Watch last week's episode, and note the moments where Cersei tries to assert her power, being all, "But I'm the king's mommy!" It's slipping, and she knows it.

Not to mention her new politically savvy inlaws, bein' all savvy politically, calling all the shots, somehow managing to make Joffrey look good to the public. Usurpers much? Take out the brat and the inlaws are out too; then Cersei is once again the most important woman in the king's life, and this new king is a meek and obedient momma's boy who's so young that she could probably rule directly as regent in his stead.

And she seemed a little bit too happy last night, y'know?

All that is just to say that it's possible that Cersei's worth suspecting alongside all the others. Lots of disgruntled people with shifty eyes at that wedding, and pretty much everyone everywhere hates Joffrey or his family enough to take a shot at him, so who knows? It's a whole Who Shot J.R. thing, and it's awesome.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:48 PM on April 14 [1 favorite]


- Loras leaving the table in disgust after the jester show depicts Renly being murdered. Of course, the show was much more explicit about their relationship, but it's also interesting to consider that show Loras felt so comfortable expressing his disgust AND leaving the table when he's also a member of the Kingsguard, and bodes interestingly for future Loras developments.

My poor baby is almost about to cry before he flees. Loras isn't a Kingsguard on the show (yet) though. He is still supposed to marry Cersei, remember?

That Cersei is the main suspect for so many "Unsullied" is something that boggles my mind too.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 5:32 AM on April 15


Loras isn't a Kingsguard on the show (yet) though. He is still supposed to marry Cersei, remember?

Oops, you're right. Sorry for the (super-tiny) spoiler!
posted by lunasol at 7:15 AM on April 15


small details in the show (Cersei getting mysterious medicine for an ailment never mentioned before, and choosing not to get the medicine from Maester Pycell, as well as her weird insistence that any leftovers be fed not to the hungry poor but to the dogs(!)) take on a sinister cast.

I figured the mysterious ailment was pregnancy, and she didn't want to get the abortifacient from Pycelle because of Pycelle's big mouth. I mean, she had no trouble getting Essence of Nightshade from Pycelle before the Blackwater, so why wouldn't she go to him for poisons now?

The feeding the leftovers to the dogs was just Cersei being randomly bitchy and trying to undermine Margaery.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:11 AM on April 15 [1 favorite]


I would assume the thinkng there is that Cersei's intended target was not Joffrey. Margery, maybe.

Poor logic. Aligning Lannister (the richest) with the Tyrells (second richest) only gives the Lannisters more power. Cersei can play silly bitch-games with Margaery (and isn't smart enough to beat a 19 year old at that game), but she wouldn't endanger that alliance.

Given that assumption, small details in the show (Cersei getting mysterious medicine for an ailment never mentioned before, and choosing not to get the medicine from Maester Pycell, as well as her weird insistence that any leftovers be fed not to the hungry poor but to the dogs(!)) take on a sinister cast.

Read Book 5.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:57 AM on April 15


Yes, I have read ALL the books! I just said I can see, given the framing of the TV episode, why people who hadn't read the books might peg Cersei as a suspect.

As far as it being poor logic, even, because her character is short-sighted. One reason she would not be nearly as good a ruler as she imagines she would is because, as Tywin bluntly pointed out, Cersei tends to act in (what she perceives to be) her own best interests, rather than considering the big picture. She lashes out, in resentment and petty jealousy. So she will punish people she sees as slighting her, for example, without considering the repercussions for King's Landing, her family or the throne.

Given that, and knowing that she vehemently does not want to marry Loras anyway, one might suppose, without having read the books, that she is capable of poisoning Margery to keep the 'Little bitch" away from Joffrey, or attempting to poison Loras and screwing it up, etc.

On a completely different note: One thing that I always wished Tyrion and the other two Lannister siblings would do is make a united stand and turn Tywin's sense of familial duty right back against him. Disappointed in Tyrion, and looking for a foothold in the North? Marry biddable, compliant little Sansa yourself and father more children by her! We need to align ourselves with the Tyrelles, you say? How about you marry Margery's grandmother, then?
posted by misha at 10:56 AM on April 15 [1 favorite]


We need to align ourselves with the Tyrelles, you say? How about you marry Margery's grandmother, then?

Olenna and Tywin would make a great couple.
posted by homunculus at 11:19 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]


If they agreed on a goal, there would be no stopping them.
posted by Night_owl at 11:34 AM on April 15 [2 favorites]


Man Ruins Game of Thrones With Series of Spoiler Filled Novels
posted by nubs at 3:26 PM on April 15 [3 favorites]


Yes, I have read ALL the books! I just said I can see, given the framing of the TV episode, why people who hadn't read the books might peg Cersei as a suspect.

Yes, this. I too have read all the books, I love them to pieces, I know many of the strange and weird and wonderful theories out there, and while it didn't make sense to me at first, I am starting to see how TV viewers might pick up on Cersei. There is a bunch of details I completely ignored/disregarded because I was watching for confirmation of the book plot, along with how they were going to try to obscure it, and I pretty much ignored Cersei relative to this because when she was on screen, I was watching how they were setting up the next steps for Cersei's arc/development/storyline.
posted by nubs at 3:30 PM on April 15


The Hound Promotes KFC.

This goes here, not in the San Francisco rent control thread where I originally posted it!
posted by Justinian at 3:39 PM on April 15


George R.R. Martin on why [spoiler] died THAT way
posted by homunculus at 3:44 PM on April 15


As an "Unsullied" (I like that term) the idea that Cersei would be behind it is nuts to me. She's probably the only person who has any feelings of love towards Joffrey

Had. Valar morghulis.
posted by ersatz at 6:03 PM on April 15


Man Ruins Game of Thrones With Series of Spoiler Filled Novels

The comments on that are hilarious.
posted by Pink Frost at 6:20 PM on April 15


oooo beta version of a Mefi TV discussion site with GoT as one of the launch titls
posted by The Whelk at 10:40 AM on April 16 [1 favorite]


Is anyone else upset that we still haven't so much as heard the words "Tower of Joy"? Have they even mentioned Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning? It's making me sad.
posted by Justinian at 1:30 AM on April 17 [1 favorite]


I just go done watching Ep1 and 2. There's a very brief mention when Oberyn turns up about Rhaegar leaving his wife for another woman, but no specific mention of the ToJ. Dayne was mentioned in Ep1. Joffrey is reading through the Book of the Kingsguard (or whatever its called) with Jaime and he reads out a passage about Dayne (Westeros.org thread, which also speculates that ToJ mentions are coming)
posted by Pink Frost at 3:00 AM on April 17


Can you remind me, then, did Cersei ever relate her future as foretold by Maggy the Frog in the TV show?
posted by Justinian at 7:06 PM on April 19


I don't believe she's done so yet. But the show hasn't reached the point in the books where we get Cersei pov chapters, so I wouldn't expect to see Maggy references yet (I do think we will).
posted by Pink Frost at 10:32 PM on April 19


Is Maggy the Frog from the books or some kind of Muppet crossover?
posted by homunculus at 10:46 PM on April 19


GoT characters as late 80s-mid 90s characters


Joffery is perfect.


Joffrey is great, but Bronn made me cackle for about a minute, so
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:52 PM on April 19


Yeah, Maggy the Frog is a minor character. She appears in A Feast for Crows which I had forgotten. It's hard to keep track in which book things happen when you haven't read them in a decade. Except ADwD for obvious reasons.
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on April 20


> Avidly: The Happy Slave, The Unsullied And American Drone attacks

Game of Thrones Creator Says Drones Are Worse Than The Dothraki
posted by homunculus at 12:58 PM on April 27


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