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Compassion is not a finite resource.
May 1, 2014 2:45 AM   Subscribe

Last year the National Crime Victimization Survey turned up a remarkable statistic. In asking 40,000 households about rape and sexual violence, the survey uncovered that 38 percent of incidents were against men. A new study reveals that men are often the victims of sexual assault, and women are often the perpetrators.
The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions We assessed 12-month prevalence and incidence data on sexual victimization in 5 federal surveys that the Bureau of Justice Statistics, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation conducted independently in 2010 through 2012. We used these data to examine the prevailing assumption that men rarely experience sexual victimization. We concluded that federal surveys detect a high prevalence of sexual victimization among men—in many circumstances similar to the prevalence found among women. We identified factors that perpetuate misperceptions about men’s sexual victimization: reliance on traditional gender stereotypes, outdated and inconsistent definitions, and methodological sampling biases that exclude inmates. We recommend changes that move beyond regressive gender assumptions, which can harm both women and men.

Male Rape and Human Rights -By Lara Stemple, the primary author of the paper.
For the last few decades, the prevailing approach to sexual violence in international human rights instruments has focused virtually exclusively on the abuse of women and girls. In the meantime, sexual violence against males continues to flourish in prison and other forms of detention. Men have been abused and sexually humiliated during situations of armed conflict, such as the highly publicized Abu Ghraib scandal in Iraq. Childhood sexual abuse of boys is alarmingly common; in fact, the vast majority of those abused at the hands of Roman Catholic clergy in the United States were boys. And sexual assault against gay men remains unchecked due to assumptions that, as was once commonly assumed about women, gay men who have been raped must have “asked for it.”

In Part I of this Article, I discuss the phenomenon of male rape, summarizing research data about the problem and exploring various contexts in which it occurs. In Part II, I show that numerous instruments in the human rights canon, including U.N. treaties, resolutions, consensus documents, and general comments address sexual violence while explicitly excluding male victims. I argue that the female-specific approach is best understood in the political context in which these instruments were developed: women’s issues were historically ignored in international law, and violence against women emerged as the salient issue around which attention to women’s human rights would revolve. I posit in Part III, however, that to continue this approach to sexual violence in light of evidence that males constitute a small but sizable percentage of victims has problematic theoretical implications: it reifies hierarchies that treat some victims as more sympathetic than others, perpetuates norms that essentialize women as victims, and imposes unhealthy expectations about masculinity on men and boys. I also outline why, paradoxically, neglecting male rape is bad for women and girls. In Part IV, I discuss the impact the female-specific approach to rape has in practice, and I point to other rights frameworks and areas of international law that hold potential for more inclusive approaches to the problem.

It is worth noting that in my treatment of this topic I distinguish the use of a gender analysis, which can be as important for understanding the rape of men as it is of women, from a female-specific approach, which explicitly excludes all male victims from efforts to remedy sexual violence, and as such, should no longer continue.
National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS)
NCVS is the nation's primary source of information on criminal victimization. Each year, data are obtained from a nationally representative sample of about 90,000 households, comprising nearly 160,000 persons, on the frequency, characteristics, and consequences of criminal victimization in the United States. Each household is interviewed twice during the year. The survey enables BJS to estimate the likelihood of victimization by rape or sexual assault, robbery, aggravated and simple assault, theft, household burglary, and motor vehicle theft for the population as a whole as well as for segments of the population such as women, the elderly, members of various racial or ethnic groups, city dwellers, and other groups. The NCVS provides the largest national forum for victims to describe the impact of crime and characteristics of violent offenders.
2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey
The National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey is an ongoing, nationally representative random digit dial (RDD) telephone survey that collects information about experiences of sexual violence, stalking, and intimate partner violence among non-institutionalized English and/ or Spanish-speaking women and men aged 18 or older in the United States. NISVS provides detailed information on the magnitude and characteristics of these forms of violence for the nation and for individual states. This report presents information related to several types of violence that have not previously been measured in a national population- based survey, including types of sexual violence other than rape; expressive psychological aggression and coercive control, and control of reproductive or sexual health. This report also provides the first ever simultaneous national and state-level prevalence estimates of violence for all states. The findings presented in this report are for 2010, the first year of data collection, and are based on complete interviews. Complete interviews were obtained from 16,507 adults (9,086 women and 7,421 men). The relative standard error (RSE), which is a measure of an estimate’s reliability, was calculated for all estimates in this report. If the RSE was greater than 30%, the estimate was deemed unreliable and is not reported. Consideration was also given to the case count. If the estimate was based on a numerator ≤20, the estimate is also not reported. Estimates for certain types of violence reported by subgroups of men such as rape victimization by racial/ethnic group are not shown because the number of men in these subgroups reporting rape was too small to calculate a reliable estimate. These tables are included in the report so that the reader can easily determine what was assessed and where gaps remain.
posted by Blasdelb (30 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry for the delay on this, but I've been working through the links and trying to see if the critical material is actually available for people to refer to, and this seems to be the problem: at this point it appears that only the few people who have access to the actual paywalled study can discuss the figures and methodology of some of the most surprising claims, while others sort of stand by or express doubt or support of the Slate interpretation. Blasdelb, it's a fascinating topic, and maybe you can rework this and repost in a way that will work a little better. Thanks. -- taz



 
That men are frequently victims of sexual violence is not in doubt. I think it's dubious, statistically speaking, to use the findings of one article (sample size of 22 male victims) to say that women are often the perpetrators of sexual assault. Also, the study highlighted so breathlessly by the Hannah Rosin article in Slate looks at a sample size of 22 male victims (94 incidents total) of "sexual victimization", not "sexual assault" as the FPP and Slate article state.
posted by stinker at 3:08 AM on May 1 [12 favorites]


Thanks for this post, Blasdelb. I can't address the numbers specifically, but I feel this bit is spot on:
We identified factors that perpetuate misperceptions about men’s sexual victimization: reliance on traditional gender stereotypes, outdated and inconsistent definitions, and methodological sampling biases that exclude inmates. We recommend changes that move beyond regressive gender assumptions, which can harm both women and men.
I remember vividly the time I was talking to my current partner and he told me about an incident with his abusive ex-girlfriend, where she instigated sex despite the fact that he'd asked her not to. He shrugged and told me that he just went along with it, "because it was easier". He is a feminist and an activist and can debate about the importance of enthusiastic consent with the best of them, he knows that what she did was wrong, but he still couldn't bring himself to say the word "rape".

Patriarchy hurts us all. Sometimes we forget that it can do so with silence as much as it can with words.
posted by fight or flight at 3:47 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]


That 2010 survey defines sexual victimization as "...several types of violence that have not previously been measured in a national population- based survey, including types of sexual violence other than rape; expressive psychological aggression and coercive control, and control of reproductive or sexual health."

My take is that these studies usefully shift our focus from specific physical acts towards a set of social dynamics that underlie sexual violence and coercion in general. In this sense, the study ratifies the current turn in conversation towards the notion that "only yes means yes" in which sexual ethics are based on a robust concept of preserving sexual autonomy and the inherent dignity of the person.

However, I also think that male sexual victimization outside the context of early childhood sexual abuse gets a very different social coding than female sexual victimization. Both are equally traumatic and equally problematic, but the pressures that prevent men from discussing or sometimes acknowledging that they have been victimized are articulated differently than those surrounding female victims.

The idea that "a man is always ready and willing or he's not a man" is very different than the idea that "women owe men sex/are only there for male sexual pleasure," and that's just within a relatively narrow slice of what's already a narrow, not particularly accurate "cis, het" narrative. The proffered rationales of a patriarchal system for why sexual violence isn't sexual violence or how it's all just "the natural order" are definitely gendered and require nuanced responses.
posted by kewb at 3:49 AM on May 1 [10 favorites]


I'm confused about the framing of this post (particularly the feminism tag, since there are no explicitly feminist resources linked). Is it because Hanna Rosin and others have (wrongly) faulted feminists with ignoring sexual assault against men? I'm particularly troubled by the practically baseless assertion that "women are often the perpetrators of sexual assault." Without this misleading lede, the post is interesting and useful, but as it is I can't help but feel baited.

I'd rather not personally re-hash the contributions that feminism has made to understanding power and dominance of various forms (i.e., beyond men over women). But few feminists would claim that women cannot be victimizers. The structures of power and dominance that make sexual abuse (of anyone!) so common are the problem, not men specifically. This conversation about sexuality, abuse, and power started in feminist thought.
posted by stinker at 4:18 AM on May 1 [12 favorites]


Wonder how much of that is due to the US's high incarceration rate, and the tacit agreement to work around the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishments by merely creating an environment conducive to brutality and outsourcing the punishment to inmates.
posted by acb at 4:19 AM on May 1


Without any direct negative comments about feminism, it's probably best to assume you answered your own question, stinker.

This conversation about sexuality, abuse, and power started in feminist thought.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:23 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]


I'm distressed by the way these excerpts imply that rape culture cuts both ways. Rape culture is almost entirely anti-woman.

Writing from my phone - will study the articles more in-depth when I get to a computer.
posted by Peevish at 4:23 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


I can't access one of the primary links. The journal article is behind a paywall.
posted by the young rope-rider at 4:36 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]


stinker, What is the difference between "sexual victimization" and "sexual assault"?
It seems a distinction without a difference.
I don't know why you choose to ignore the rest of the quite comprehansive data regarding males being sexually assualted by women.
I can add myself as number twenty three with my babysitter Carla and her "invisible suit" that she would "put on" while hiding behind my bedroom door and her having me draw circles around her clit when I was six if that will lend some veracity.
posted by vapidave at 4:36 AM on May 1 [4 favorites]


I can't access one of the primary links. The journal article is behind a paywall.

Make that two.
posted by the young rope-rider at 4:37 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]


Rape culture and men is worth thinking about. I don't know if I would use that term, but there is some sort of social endorsement of common forms of male victimization. Prisoners deserve it, young men can't be raped by women because they all want sex all the time, men who are raped by other men aren't real men or they would have defended themselves or died trying. I don't think we really engage as a culture with the toxicity of those beliefs, whatever you call them. How they compare to the scope of issues women face is a separate question I don't think this thread is really about.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:37 AM on May 1 [4 favorites]


stinker: "That men are frequently victims of sexual violence is not in doubt. I think it's dubious, statistically speaking, to use the findings of one article (sample size of 22 male victims) to say that women are often the perpetrators of sexual assault. Also, the study highlighted so breathlessly by the Hannah Rosin article in Slate looks at a sample size of 22 male victims (94 incidents total) of "sexual victimization", not "sexual assault" as the FPP and Slate article state."
The paper referred to inside the article is unfortunately not open access, but if anyone would like a copy of it please feel free to memail me with an email address I can send a PDF to and a promise not to distribute that PDF further, for the purpose of this academic duiscussion that we are currently having.

Hanna Rosin is using the paper in a way that it was not statistically designed to be used but, in the obscene absence of research on the topic, it is still pretty convincing. If you can find a better accounting of the perpetrators of sexual assault against men, and no your intuition does not count, I'd be very curious to see it. This is the authors' definition of what Sexual victimization means in the context of their study, I certainly hope you're not trying to trivialize any of the components,
Sexual victimization incidents in this study consist of rape (defined by NCVS as completed forced vaginal, anal, or oral penetration), attempted rape (defined by NCVS as attempted forced vaginal, anal, or oral penetration), and a broad range of other sexual assaults (defined by NCVS as completed or attempted attacks involv-ing unwanted sexual contact but not forced sexual intercourse). It is important that sexual assaults for purposes of this study also include “nonclassifying” incidents, cases reported to NCVS interviewers but, because they are presumed to lack the legal requirement of force necessary for incidents to be defined as serious crimes, are excluded from NCVS public use files and BJS published reports. Nonclassifying sexual victimization incidents (approximately 20 percent of total sex-related cases) include sexual coercion without force, “inappropriate” touching, indecent exposure, and sexual harassment. These cases were included in the present study’s sample to examine a broader range of unwanted sexual situations from the victims’ own perspectives.
posted by Blasdelb at 4:37 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


Vapidave, if there is such comprehensive data showing women are often sexual victimizers, abusers, etc. I have yet to see it. Blasdelb, I'm quite surprised to see you call this paper of n = 22 "convincing". Regardless of how one defines the abuse, this study is more riddled with holes than a slice of swiss cheese.
posted by stinker at 4:42 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]


It also notes men are more frequently victimized in prisons, which I don't think has ever been in doubt - and also lowers the incidence of women, I would think, since most prisons are single-gender.
posted by corb at 4:50 AM on May 1


There's some interesting stuff here, but the article's framing is pretty weird and with the paywall, I can't tell if Rosin is actually putting two and two together or trying to sensationalize her article with the usual #slatepitch-y wierdness (which would not be a first for her). For instance, it looks like she conflates the data from the CDC with the DOJ, which are likely looking at different definitions and use different language in their surveys/research. And Rosin's last paragraph seems really weasel-wordy with respect to feminism's role in sexual assault prevention. As stinker pointed out, it's largely been feminists who worked to make the definitions of rape and other forms of sexual violence more expansive, and in contrast to the men's rights movement--who despite the "activism" part of their name almost never actually advocate for expanding sexual violence assistance, but rather try to limit women's access--push for helping survivors of all genders and walks of life. And from what I can read of Stemple et al's work, the focus is on the structures of power not investing time and resources in looking at the situation, which has been a longtime gripe amongst groups concerned about sexual violence, including most feminists. But to read Rosin's conclusion, it's almost saying that feminists were only concerned about the well-being of women, and it's their fault that male victims (including survivors) are being ignored and stigmatized.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:58 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


stinker: "Vapidave, if there is such comprehensive data showing women are often sexual victimizers, abusers, etc. I have yet to see it. Blasdelb, I'm quite surprised to see you call this paper of n = 22 "convincing". Regardless of how one defines the abuse, this study is more riddled with holes than a slice of swiss cheese."
This is the relevant portion of the paper,
It is most important that while 99 percent of women are sexually victimized by men, only 54 percent of men are victimized by other men, with the remaining 46 per-cent of men victimized by women (χ2 = 341.274, df= 1, p < .001). The fact that men are victimized so often by women certainly contradicts cultural stereotypes about women as passive, both physically and sexually, as well as the assumption that men are exclusively the aggressors of sexual violence.
If you've got a statistically literate argument for its lack of significance please make it, but I really hope this thread does not become yet another opportunity to deny the lived experience of survivors of sexual assault like Vapidave.
posted by Blasdelb at 5:02 AM on May 1 [5 favorites]


A lot of the data isn't there, because it was historically excluded. Hanna Rosin points out that the FBI defined rape as “the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will.” So for statistical purposes, there was no such thing as rape committed against a male. Similarly, it's unreasonable to make nice distinctions between "sexual assaults" and "sexual victimization" when (a) both are serious problems; and (b) the very reason for this discussion is that old definitions of rape and sexual assault are inadequate.

As for prison rape, Ms Rosin goes on to say
The final outrage in Stemple and Meyer’s paper involves inmates, who aren’t counted in the general statistics at all. [...] Those surveys turned up the opposite of what we generally think is true. Women were more likely to be abused by fellow female inmates, and men by guards, and many of those guards were female. For example, of juveniles reporting staff sexual misconduct, 89 percent were boys reporting abuse by a female staff member. In total, inmates reported an astronomical 900,000 incidents of sexual abuse.
I emphasised that bit to show that our gut feelings are unreliable: we don't typically think of guards as being responsible for the sexual abuse of male prisoners; and we wouldn't necessarily realise that guards at juvenile prisons are very likely to be female.

I think that in this case, when older data is manifestly inadequate and our prejudices tend to lead us astray, we need to take a very open and broad view of what data exists. Yes, there are definitional problems, but that in itself is reason for concern. If we recognise that sexual assault upon men is a problem at all - and I hope we all do - then we need to ask why we don't know more about it, and not dismiss it as not being rape rape.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:11 AM on May 1 [6 favorites]


So for statistical purposes, there was no such thing as rape committed against a male. Similarly, it's unreasonable to make nice distinctions between "sexual assaults" and "sexual victimization" when (a) both are serious problems; and (b) the very reason for this discussion is that old definitions of rape and sexual assault are inadequate.

I think the historic reason there hasn't usually been accepted female-on-male rape has been thoughts on the penis - the idea that if a man is erect, he's obviously enthusiastically consenting to the sex, or he wouldn't be erect. I'm not saying this is true, just that the erection has traditionally been viewed as an enthusiastic sex statement.

The reason I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between "sexual assaults" and "sexual victimization" when the victims are men is partially how they're defining this as including "expressive psychological aggression and coercive control, and control of reproductive or sexual health." I am very, very, extremely uncomfortable with men's inability to control the reproductive part of the sexual relationship being viewed as sexual victimization. Like, times a billion. And I'd really want to see what the hell "expressive psychological aggression" is. The way it's written, it sounds like every guy doing shitty things and being called on it by his girlfriend, who he then tries to distract with sex, is the victim in this scenario, which seems very, very wrong.
posted by corb at 5:19 AM on May 1 [4 favorites]


But to read Rosin's conclusion, it's almost saying that feminists were only concerned about the well-being of women, and it's their fault that male victims (including survivors) are being ignored and stigmatized.

I'm not getting the same read as you from that paragraph. She points out one of the authors of the paper she is relying on is a feminist which would be a weird tactic for someone trying to blame feminists and women for ignoring the problem.

Now the question is, in a climate when politicians and the media are finally paying attention to military and campus sexual assault, should these new findings alter our national conversation about rape? Stemple is a longtime feminist who fully understands that men have historically used sexual violence to subjugate women and that in most countries they still do. As she sees it, feminism has fought long and hard to fight rape myths—that if a woman gets raped it’s somehow her fault, that she welcomed it in some way. But the same conversation needs to happen for men. By portraying sexual violence against men as aberrant, we prevent justice and compound the shame. And the conversation about men doesn’t need to shut down the one about women. “Compassion,” she says, “is not a finite resource.”

It reads to me as pointing out to anyone interested in busting rape myths in the wider culture that there is a conversation to be had here, not an attack on feminists for only caring about women.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:19 AM on May 1 [1 favorite]


What is the difference between "sexual victimization" and "sexual assault"?

While I sincerely feel awful reading the experience you describe, the distinction between sexual assault and sexual victimization seems legitimate enough to me. I have been pressured into unwanted sex before, sometimes when I was intoxicated and couldn't have begun to protest, but I never once woke up the following morning feeling that I had been "physically abused". To suggest that my experiences, which were probably a sort of victimization, were in any way comparable to the traumatic experienced of abuse victims--it just seems utterly profane.

I just got back from an overnight shift and drank a 40 oz bottle of Milwaukee's Best in my driveway. If I'm not thinking clearly enough for this thread, I sincerely apologize. I mean no disrespect to anybody.
posted by jwhite1979 at 5:21 AM on May 1


I'm distressed by the way these excerpts imply that rape culture cuts both ways. Rape culture is almost entirely anti-woman.

I'm curious why you believe that. If we take rape culture generally to be the attitudes and practices of society which normalize and condone rape, I think there's fairly clearly evidence that, for example, the previous definition of rape that required the victim to be female and the failure to count prison rape statistics at all are parts of the culture which normalize and condone rape in ways that strongly affect men. This isn't to say that culture that drives those choices isn't still patriarchal or that those choices don't flow out of attitudes that affect women more strongly. The failure to acknowledge that rape of men exists is most likely bound up in ideas of masculinity and men's willingness to have sex that are also hugely negative for women, but I think we can also safely file that under "rape culture that cuts against male victims" even if it's also "rape culture that favors male victimizers." Attitudes toward prison rape strike me as one of the more salient examples of rape culture cutting against men, with prison rape being, if not the majority, a huge percentage of the jokes about rape made, at least in America. The assumed victim in those rapes is usually male, and the rapes are explicitly taken not only without seriousness, but to be legitimate. This isn't to say, obviously, that the idea of rape as a legitimate punishment doesn't hurt women, it undoubtedly does, but it's an example of "cuts both ways."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:31 AM on May 1 [9 favorites]


I'm distressed by the way these excerpts imply that rape culture cuts both ways. Rape culture is almost entirely anti-woman.

If we define rape culture as a culture that systematically trivialised, tolerates, or even condones some kinds of sexual violence then I'm not sure that's true. Surely the social acceptability of jokes about prison rape is a textbook example of that.
posted by atrazine at 5:33 AM on May 1 [7 favorites]


I have been pressured into unwanted sex before, sometimes when I was intoxicated and couldn't have begun to protest [...]

Yeah, you were raped.

Seriously, that fits the definition of rape where I live (Australia), and in many other jurisdictions. Your profile says that you live in Maine. Maine seems to have eliminated the crime of rape and replaced it with "gross sexual assault". Because your partner engaged in a sexual act when you were "unconscious or otherwise physically incapable of protesting" it appears that you were grossly sexually assaulted.

I never once woke up the following morning feeling that I had been "physically abused".

Well, now you know better. You have a right to your bodily and sexual integrity. I'm very glad that you do not feel injured, but please recognise that other victims may feel differently.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:36 AM on May 1


I'm reminded of my gay roommate in college who was sexually victimized by a woman who took him as the ultimate challenge for her sexual conquests - she got him blackout drunk and then slept with him. Later it was mostly laughed off as "he must've wanted it if he was aroused" and "are you sure you're gay?" that kind of thing. Disgusting all around and I feel so bad for not speaking out. That was rape.
posted by naju at 5:39 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


"...and men by guards, and many of those guards were female. For example, of juveniles reporting staff sexual misconduct, 89 percent were boys reporting abuse by a female staff member."

Yeah, but they are hardly gonna say "yeah, its big mike on d wing" because when they get back to their cell, big mike and his boys will beat the shit out of them for being a grass. Also, they have a vested interest in blaming the guards.
posted by marienbad at 5:41 AM on May 1


I used to work as a civilian doing survey research in the Department of Defense. One thing that few people know about "don't ask don't tell" is that the policy made it easier for men to rape other men and get away with it. Men could get raped by men who outranked them and there was little they could do to report it, because the rapist could claim that his victim was making gay advances and hence equally guilty in the eyes of the "don't ask don't tell" policy. There were even case of sexual assault against men in the infamous Tailhook scandal, although those didn't get as much attention in the media.
posted by jonp72 at 5:41 AM on May 1 [3 favorites]


If you've got a statistically literate argument for its lack of significance please make it.

Blasdelb, as a fellow scientist, I think you can appreciate the need for a minimum sample size of 30 for deriving representative statistics.

Yes, absolutely, women can be sexual victimizers, but this in not sufficient evidence to claim that women are "often perpetrators" of sexual abuse. I'm not sure why this particularly weak assertion is so central to your otherwise valid point that men are often victims of sexual abuse.

I really hope this thread does not become yet another opportunity to deny the lived experience of survivors of sexual assault

That's pretty uncharitably ad hominem of you.
posted by stinker at 5:43 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


I'm not getting the same read as you from that paragraph. She points out one of the authors of the paper she is relying on is a feminist which would be a weird tactic for someone trying to blame feminists and women for ignoring the problem.
[...]
It reads to me as pointing out to anyone interested in busting rape myths in the wider culture that there is a conversation to be had here, not an attack on feminists for only caring about women.


It's a kind of "yes, but" construction that she uses. She notes that feminists have been trying to bust rape myths for women, not for the population at large. That's a partial truth, and in an article about the prevalence of rape amongst both men and women, a glaring omission. Doubly so coming from someone who wrote an entire book about an erroneous conclusion in regards to women "dominating" men economically. There's also the complete lack of conversation about sexual violence against trans* people, but that's probably a whole other thread at this point.
posted by zombieflanders at 5:43 AM on May 1 [2 favorites]


Rape culture is anti-female, and men who are victims of sexual assault and rape usually get dropped into the box labeled "female."

There was a thread once a long while back where someone seemed to be blaming feminists for a lack of services for male rape and sexual assault victims, and for lack of cultural acknowledgement that they exist at all, but that lack existed a long, long time before feminism was ever thought of.
posted by rtha at 5:49 AM on May 1



I have been pressured into unwanted sex before, sometimes when I was intoxicated and couldn't have begun to protest [...]

Yeah, you were raped.


Let me clarify: " [...] could not have begun to protest without getting undesirably, drunkenly violent with the female in question; I could always have used brute force to get her to stop, but I would never hit someone less strong than myself." Isn't that somehow qualitatively different from a person who can not physically defend himself or herself?
posted by jwhite1979 at 5:50 AM on May 1


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