January 15, 2002

4:08 PM

Carlyle's way:the Red Herring digs into the X-Files-esque Carlyle Group, that connects the Bushes, bin Ladens, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, and on and on. How serious is the conflict of interest? And does this investigation by a business magazine make the conspiracy nuts seem any less nutty?
posted by D (6 comments total)

Not new notions. Gen and ex-President Eisenhower wrote a departing speech in which he warned of the military /industrial complex. This adds govt, but then it is always govt that awards contract etc for districts etc . A bit later on, another warning. Added to the mix: the American universities, also partaking in lucrative money deals sent in for research etc.
But does this mean The Group plans wars to enrich themselves? Show me the evidence.
posted by Postroad at 4:13 PM on January 15, 2002

The military-industrial complex already includes the government, that's what the military is. And Postroad, whether the notion is new or not doesn't mean I shouldn't be upset that our system is being abused by massive military corporations.

A very interesting article. On a side note, is it pronounced Car-leel or is it Car-lile? The former makes a lot more sense for the headline pun. Anyway...
posted by cell divide at 4:29 PM on January 15, 2002

Oh for goodness sake. This group is very old news. The article is full of assumptions and vague implications, and no context is provided.

Oh no! It's got "$12 billion in funds under management"? Wowser. Folks, this is miniscule. The big global firms - the Morgan-Chase, Merrill Lynch, and UBS's of the world measure assets under management in the hundreds of billions (a couple are over the US$1 Trillion mark). Carlyle has a few good money managers, but they are simply one of a great number of little boutiques.

My goodness, George Soros himself kicked in $100 Mil?!!! That must mean the group is special and exclusive! Unless, that is, one notes that Soros measures his personal wealth in billions, and in fact gave two and a half times as much away this year (he donated $250 Mil to a damn university in Budapest). $100 Million is a flippin' rounding error on his tax return. Not exactly the vote of confidence the article implies.

George Bush senior actually told his dimwitted son not to throw away several years of serious behind-the-scenes diplomacy between North and South Korea just to appease the far right hawks and aging anti-communists in his own party ... and it is implied (but of course never stated as an accusation with evidence) that this is because the group may derive financial benefits - in which GB Senior might share - from stability? So it would be better, then, to enrage and once again completely isolate North Korea? Get the two Korea's back on a course towards war (cold, leading even to hot)? Trouble is, of course, either way, people would see conspiracies and say Carlyle Group was secretly pulling strings to make money. (Anyone catch that odd contradiction in the article? The group is simultaneously accused of making money off the war in the middle east, and the peace in Asia ... hhmmm).

Red Herring is usually fairly solid - in fact, is often quite sharp when it sticks to what it knows ... but that article was a thinly disguised opinion piece posing as a factual article. Five times more is implied than is actually demonstrated. It is a pile of garbage.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:02 PM on January 15, 2002

Conspiracy theory, having been for ages the rutting ground of the rightwing, is now being explored by their counterparts. They are at the daytrip stage, far from campers or especially those hard core homesteaders. It is going to be a ...god, I hear the black helicopters, gotta go!
posted by Mack Twain at 8:19 PM on January 15, 2002

You reap what you sow, "gentleman". As Mack Twain notes, this is ground well plowed by Horowitz or Scaife or Goldberg or Kelly or many others for years, and their predecessors such as McCarthy, Nixon, or Hoover. Don't like it? Think it's unfair, untrue, unfounded? Think it wouldn't be fair to the Bushes to pass around mere 'speculation', that it might diminish his Presiduncy to pass judgment before all the facts are in, or to ask annoying and difficult questions?

If you listen really carefully, you'll heard the sound of a miniature violing playing "My Heart Bleeds For You".
posted by hincandenza at 12:00 AM on January 16, 2002

" ... If you listen really carefully, you'll heard the sound of a miniature violing playing "My Heart Bleeds For You" ..."

Unfortunately, neither the gentlemen, nor the Bushes, really have any interest in listening carefully to whatever little miniature thing of yours you wish to play with. You do reap what you sow. The Bushes invest, and get returns. You think you're clever if you ask what you apparently consider to be annoying or difficult questions. Guess what bucko, I'd be willing to bet your tiny little violin isn't keeping the Bushes up nights.
posted by MidasMulligan at 2:03 PM on January 16, 2002