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Shades of Smallville, but this time with Batman! (Sort of.)
May 6, 2014 8:13 AM   Subscribe

First look at the trailer for the FOX series, Gotham.
posted by Kitteh (147 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
The fan-boy in me is not liking the liberties they are taking with the Batman canon.
posted by oddman at 8:36 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


The rest of me thinks this is really a DC Elseworlds project and the fanboy should just shut up.
posted by oddman at 8:36 AM on May 6 [6 favorites]


If Hannibal has taught my anything, it's that television series prequels that sound like a horrible idea might surprise you. The trailer didn't thrill me but I know others, who weren't even aware that this show was coming at all, were intrigued by it, so maybe it worked as it should and then the show will be better than I thought and we'll all be happy fans.

Optimism, it's what's for dinner.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:39 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


I know this is going to be terrible fanservice-y genre pap like Smallville and Arrow, but it's my kind of pap, old chum. (Batman > Superman 4 eva!!!1)
posted by entropicamericana at 8:40 AM on May 6 [4 favorites]


Poison Ivy: Botanist from birth?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:40 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Is that a blimp hanging over the Gotham skyline at the end? Shades of The Animated Series.
Though, given the "this is war" message, it's probably a barrage balloon.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:41 AM on May 6


The trailer didn't really do anything for me, coming off like standard cop show stuff just with added Batman-y side trappings. At the same time, the head writer of this was one of the creators of Rome, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Might give it a shot if it gets good reviews when it starts airing.
posted by sparkletone at 8:43 AM on May 6


While I appreciate how it works well with Nolan's riff on the origin story, I'm not a fan of making Gordon connected to most of the rogue's gallery just in the first season alone. Then again, I did enjoy the first couple of seasons of Smallville, and I'll watch Ben Mckenzie (who played Batman in the decent-if-not-great Year One animated one-shot) and Donal Logue in a lot of things. It also suffers from a case of "the only female role with lines in the trailer is a villain" syndrome, which I hope isn't representative of the series.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:46 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


Man, life's been rough for Ryan since he moved out of the OC.
posted by kmz at 8:48 AM on May 6 [11 favorites]


The trailer struck me as odd. It's a weird mix of "gritty police procedural set in the middle of a mob war", "a young detective Gordon teaches wayward child Bruce Wayne valuable life lessons", and "spunky teenage/20-something villains get up to hijinks then...become murderous psychopaths?". I dunno. It's like it wants to be the Nolan movies but also Smallville but also Teen Titans but also Arrow.
posted by jedicus at 8:50 AM on May 6


It's like Muppet Babies for adults.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:51 AM on May 6 [29 favorites]


Is that a blimp hanging over the Gotham skyline at the end? Shades of The Animated Series.

They'd best not be teasing with that. How I pine for a world of super villains, women in furs, and hydrogen-filled rigid airships with piano lounges on them.

I know its clear from the trailer that its not what they're doing, but how fantastic(god awful?) would a live-action Batman The Animated Series be?!?
No no, you're right, that would probably just descend down the gravity-well of Burton's work, unable to stand on its own under such a strain.
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 8:51 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


It's like it wants to be the Nolan movies but also Smallville but also Teen Titans but also Arrow.

It's like Muppet Babies for adults.


I can't decide whether I like these phrases as criticisms or because they describe shows I would totally watch.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:52 AM on May 6 [26 favorites]


Is that a blimp hanging over the Gotham skyline at the end? Shades of The Animated Series.

That's what I thought with the first trailer I saw. I'm not letting my hopes get too high and I'm remembering that it took me the better part of the first season to love Arrow. And I'm also remembering that Agents of SHIELD took that long for me to figure out that the Marvel TV people were totally jacking me around.

(please please please be good!)
posted by immlass at 8:52 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


The initial pitch for Gotham seemed completely pointless – Gotham City without Batman or his supervillains is just a generic urban hellhole, and Gotham without Batman and with supervillains gets you to a weird halfway point where either the police are failing to stop all these mass murderers, which would be super dark for network television, or they are stopping the mass murderers so why does anybody need Batman?

Now as they keep dropping more and more kid versions of Bat-characters into the mix it looks like Preteen Bat-Smallville, which sounds terrible instead of pointless.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:55 AM on May 6 [6 favorites]


Yes, because Fox has never, never, seen a classic story that it couldn't make better by setting it in high school so they can fill it up with beautiful teenagers.

No matter that real teenagers are the least dramatically interesting forms of life on the planet. They're pretty, and they attract a similarly teenaged audience that has time to consume and punches well above their weight in determining how household income is spent. So everyone must be a teenager.
posted by Naberius at 9:05 AM on May 6


Any project that results in Donal Logue getting to produce words from his mouth-hole in a venue where I can watch him emit those words is a good project.
posted by Shepherd at 9:07 AM on May 6 [9 favorites]


Hrm. I am intrigued, and frankly, Donal Logue as Harvey Bullock cannot be improved upon in either direction ever. And what I find the most intriguing is the lack of the ultimate Bat-villain; if they have the restraint to keep the Joker out of it, then they might have the willpower to make this good.
posted by Etrigan at 9:07 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Gotham City without Batman or his supervillains is just a generic urban hellhole, and Gotham without Batman and with supervillains gets you to a weird halfway point where either the police are failing to stop all these mass murderers, which would be super dark for network television, or they are stopping the mass murderers so why does anybody need Batman?

I was just thinking about that. It's not completely set-in-stone canon that Gotham was a once-great city that went to crap some time after Bruce's parents died, but it's a common theme. There are indications in the trailer that the show will adopt that version of Gotham history (e.g. the city looks nice enough, there aren't supervillains yet, people speak of a coming war).

But that's a very weird way to write a TV show, especially a network show. We're going to watch as Gordon strives to fight back against an ever worsening tide of mob and supervillain crime, taking small victories where he can but always against a backdrop of insurmountable problems of systemic corruption and poverty? A show where things steadily get worse until, at last, in season, I dunno, seven or eight, Batman shows up for the big series finale?

Or, alternatively, are the police going to be basically effective? But then, as you point out, who needs Batman then? It's weird.

Personally I'd prefer a police procedural focusing on James Gordon, Barbara Gordon, Harvey Bullock, and Renee Montoya. It could be set pre-Batman, circa-Batman, or even post-Batman. The Nolan movies certainly left plenty of villains untouched. In my fever dream Idris Elba plays Bullock.
posted by jedicus at 9:08 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


everyone must be a teenager.
Only if it gets renewed a few times. I think Bruce is supposed to be 10?

Any project that results in Donal Logue getting to produce words from his mouth-hole in a venue where I can watch him emit those words is a good project.

Okay yes this is true.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:08 AM on May 6


I'm ok with this, as long it's a frame-by-frame remake of Frank Miller's Year One, followed by the Killing Joke, and then ending with The Dark Knight Returns (Miller again). Oh, and throw in Gotham by Gaslight for a time-travel episode.
posted by blue_beetle at 9:10 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


We're going to watch as Gordon strives to fight back against an ever worsening tide of mob and supervillain crime, taking small victories where he can but always against a backdrop of insurmountable problems of systemic corruption and poverty?

The Wire, but with pretty people.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:14 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


I need to start eating more oatmeal, cuz I'm gonna watch the shit out of this.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:16 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


Eh, I don't know. I think the time has come to wash the Batman clean of all the Frank Miller-ness and try something new for a while. What we need is more giant pennies.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:16 AM on May 6 [27 favorites]


"It's like Muppet Babies for adults."


Um, if that's what it is, then I'm not seeing the problem.
posted by oddman at 9:16 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


The Wire, but with pretty people.

Fair enough, but The Wire wasn't on network TV. I don't really think Fox will go that route.
posted by jedicus at 9:16 AM on May 6


I'd think that muppet babies for adults would be an episode of Ricky Lake where they confront their muppet parents who abandoned them to Barbara Billingslys house.
posted by dr_dank at 9:17 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Yes, because Fox has never, never, seen a classic story that it couldn't make better by setting it in high school so they can fill it up with beautiful teenagers.

Ben McKenzie only looks like a teenager; he's 35.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:20 AM on May 6


One possibility by which the show could avoid a long slog through Young Master Wayne's tween years would be to have it jump forward a few years each season. That way, we see Bruce at 10 then at 13 then at 16, etc., watching his (and all the other characters') development in a way that doesn't require the series to run forever.
posted by the sobsister at 9:21 AM on May 6 [5 favorites]


That could also get us to the most important thing missing from the show, namely Jim Gordon's mustache.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:22 AM on May 6 [6 favorites]


Once again, why didn't they just do a straight adaptation of Gotham Central, the greatest Batman comic of the last fifteen years?
posted by kewb at 9:22 AM on May 6 [6 favorites]


a way that doesn't require the series to run forever.

American television producers do not understand this concept. A series that runs forever is the platonic ideal.
posted by jedicus at 9:24 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


My biggest problem with Arrow (which is practically an Elseworlds Batman show) is the requisite CW-brand melodrama so hey looking forward to this.
posted by griphus at 9:24 AM on May 6


Wait, I think we're all forgetting the best part, which was only glimpsed in the trailer:

Sean Pertwee as Alfred.

SEAN. PERTWEE.

I mean, I'm already there for Ben McKenzie, but Sean Pertwee as Alfred? FUCK YEAH.
posted by Katemonkey at 9:26 AM on May 6 [4 favorites]


Once again, why didn't they just do a straight adaptation of Gotham Central, the greatest Batman comic of the last fifteen years?

Because then they'd have to pay Greg Rucka and Ed Brubaker royalties.
posted by mightygodking at 9:26 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


"Agents of SHIELD sucks! Where are all the superheroes?" [...] "Gotham sucks, why couldn't they do Gotham Central, where there are no superheroes?"
posted by Ian A.T. at 9:33 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Yes, because Fox has never, never, seen a classic story that it couldn't make better by setting it in high school so they can fill it up with beautiful teenagers.

I have no idea why people keep making this argument about the potential badness of the series, except for the sake of suggesting that the trailer presented a different show than it is. Gotham isn't going to be "Batman with teenagers." Nor is it fair to suggest it's another Birds of Prey series.

It's a cop drama. It's basically Law & Order: Gotham City and holy shit that sounds awesome. In fact, the only way they can make it bad is if they get desperate immediately and resort to shoehorning Batman villains and superhero adventure right from the getgo. (e.g., surprise, series finale is Joker shows up, I sigh heavily and turn off TV.)
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 9:33 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


It's not completely set-in-stone canon that Gotham was a once-great city that went to crap some time after Bruce's parents died, but it's a common theme.

I would argue that Gotham has generally been portrayed as a still-great city that happens to be run by institutionalized corruption and organized crime, the latter of which has some "super-ish" villains at various levels. Everyone lives with it -- people know that there are places you just don't go, but at the same time, if you want to get a little weed or a quick loan that a bank won't give you, then you know a guy to talk to who knows a guy to talk to. Like Chicago throughout much of its history, or New York in the mid-20th Century.
posted by Etrigan at 9:33 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


In fact, the only way they can make it bad is if they get desperate immediately and resort to shoehorning Batman villains and superhero adventure right from the getgo.

They've already cast Catwoman and Penguin, and the promotional material says Riddler, Two-Face, Joker and Poison Ivy are all on the way, so yeah that's happening.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:37 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


The fan-boy in me is not liking the liberties they are taking with the Batman canon.
One of the smartest things Marvel did was to very clearly define early on that the MCU is completely independent thing and thus render themselves immune to 616/Ultimate continuity nitpicking.
Once again, why didn't they just do a straight adaptation of Gotham Central, the greatest Batman comic of the last fifteen years?
A million times this.

I think the best approach would have been to snippets of a full-fledged Batman fighting villains in whatever "now" is supposed to be, and then do long flashbacks to the origins of those villains and their feuds/blood oaths/vendettas/etc. For example, we start with Batman chasing Catwoman over the rooftops because she's just stolen the artsy geegaw of the week, and then we spend most of the episode going over how said geegaw was actually a Kyle family heirloom that was stolen from them 30 years ago, by a master cat burglar who inspires a young Selena yadda yadda... Then we have a little denoument with them in the "present".
posted by Freon at 9:37 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


I think the best approach would have been to snippets of a full-fledged Batman fighting villains in whatever "now" is supposed to be, and then do long flashbacks to the origins of those villains and their feuds/blood oaths/vendettas/etc.

Which makes them hire twice the cast, unless the snippets are just a few seconds and consist mostly of recycled footage like the kids on How I Met Your Mother.
posted by Etrigan at 9:40 AM on May 6


Basically Law & Order: Gotham City does sound awesome, but how much of that premise is left when Batman's still in elementary school and all the supervillains are all ten years away from their origins?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:40 AM on May 6


Which makes them hire twice the cast, unless the snippets are just a few seconds and consist mostly of recycled footage like the kids on How I Met Your Mother.
Yeah you'd have to plan way ahead for that. I suppose ideally you'd integrate your movie events (and actor contracts for the TV only bits?) around your TV season, and vice versa. That would take some superhuman planning skills, though. Witness what happened to Agents of SHIELD when they were stuck in a holding pattern of repetitious suck while they waited for Winter Soldier to hit theaters so they could get their S1 plot into gear finally. After months of initial despair, I'm now convinced this could have been a mind-blowing rookie year if it had started as a mid-season replacement.
posted by Freon at 9:56 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Usually, Batman villains are a consequence of having a Batman running about, so it will be interesting to see them pre-monocle/catsuit/question mark cane/smile.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:06 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


I wonder how they will work explaining just how bad wealthy people have it in this country into the show? Perhaps young master Wayne will not be given a pony for his birthday in one particularly gritty episode because the socialist mayor of Gotham murdered them all and the evil union bosses won't allow more to be shipped in.
posted by Poldo at 10:15 AM on May 6


Whatever the merits of this show, Gotham PD the comic series was fantastic.
posted by yerfatma at 10:32 AM on May 6


If John Doman plays his character just like he played Rawls then this might be interesting.
posted by juiceCake at 10:51 AM on May 6


If John Doman plays his character just like he played Rawls then this might be interesting.

Ah, so that's who that was! It was driving me nuts trying to figure out where I knew him from.
posted by Kitteh at 10:56 AM on May 6


I think the time has come to wash the Batman clean of all the Frank Miller-ness and try something new for a while.

I could not agree more. Grimdark is borrrrrrrrringggggg. I adored Grant Morrison's Batman. Brave & the Bold is an amazing and joyful cartoon. I love that people are waking back up to the idea that it's okay for superhero adventure stories to be fun and hopeful. (everywhere but DC, anyhow)

I kinda wish Frank Miller would retire before he releases any more pathetic and embarrassing work. I hope that this show's Catwoman origin is entirely shorn of Miller's lazy misogyny. Here are all of Miller's story ideas about the World's Greatest Thief: She was a prostitute, then an old madam. In the alternate universe of Holy Terror, she makes out with Not Batman, then gets captured and put into rope bondage by Not Al Quada. Fucking pitiful.

This trailer ain't doing much for me, but it's only a trailer. Sometimes murky origins are better left murky though. I remember that speculating about where Wolverine came from was vastly more interesting than actually reading Paul Jenkins' version of events. (Oh, he was a logger for awhile? Cooooool.) Likewise the Star Wars prequels - imagining where that all could have started was so much more fun than seeing it.

It's possible to push the ASTONISHING ORIGIN timeline back too far, and it looks like this may have happened here. I don't need to see Penguin buy his first top hat, guys. But if y'all want to include Gotham's pre-Batman superheroes Wildcat and Alan Scott Green Lantern in the mix, I might check out an episode or two.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:00 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


If there really were a Gotham you just know that the American Pork Growers Association would have billboards all over it reading "Got Ham?"
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:01 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


I wonder if there are already supervillains and superheroes in this universe. Otherwise this one generation of Gotham's kids just all went bonkers, put on costumes and started fighting each other. Something in the water?
posted by brundlefly at 11:03 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


If the canon never evolves, it calcifies and dies.

Marvel-reading 80s-boy who only really ever read Batman out of all the DC books says "Bring it."
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:05 AM on May 6


Eh, I don't know. I think the time has come to wash the Batman clean of all the Frank Miller-ness and try something new for a while. What we need is more giant pennies.

Given that Nolan and Co. have gone all grimdark with Superman for some reason, I'm hoping they switch it around for Superman v. Batman and use the totally campy Batman from the TV show. Just for contrast.
posted by brundlefly at 11:06 AM on May 6 [2 favorites]


What I'm wondering is why you never see the big truck that's honking its horn all through the trailer.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:07 AM on May 6 [4 favorites]


For control of the city, you had the Riddler fighting the Penguin fighting Pope Alexander IX - damn, no wonder Gotham went to hell before the Batman showed up.
posted by Slap*Happy at 11:09 AM on May 6


I'm hoping they switch it around for Superman v. Batman and use the totally campy Batman from the TV show.

GENIUS.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:09 AM on May 6


Zach Snyder is making all the DCU movies. That's all you really need to know.
posted by kmz at 11:13 AM on May 6


I'm hoping they switch it around for Superman v. Batman and use the totally campy Batman from the TV show.

Or just give that job to the Blue Beetle...he was always my go-to Fun-Bats...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 11:13 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


Otherwise this one generation of Gotham's kids just all went bonkers, put on costumes and started fighting each other. Something in the water?

I can't find it, but someone recently put forth a theory that Scarecrow's toxin from Batman Begins did exactly that -- even though it wasn't "activated," it still had enough of an effect to drive people just insane enough to put on silly costumes.
posted by Etrigan at 11:13 AM on May 6 [1 favorite]


My theory about why he's friends with Commissioner Gordon is that Gordon collects all the bat-emblem throwing stars they pull out of the bad guys and meets him once a week to give them back because it's a lot of work grinding out new ones in the bat-shop.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:13 AM on May 6 [7 favorites]


I loved the grimdark Batman because ever since I was a teenager I hoped that we'd see him as something a little more badass. But it's been done now and it's time to dial it back a little. Crossing my fingers that this will not be another Fox fuckup. But hey, at least it's not on CW.
posted by Ber at 11:14 AM on May 6


I wouldn't mind seeing something with Arkham Asylum's tone. Straight-faced with a bit of grimdark, but totally fantastical as well. I'd like to see a 12-foot-tall Killer Croc.
posted by brundlefly at 11:21 AM on May 6


I know I read an article somewhere about "Why Is Gotham So Fucked Up?". Curses, ghosts of the tortured souls from an insane asylum, etc. Cant find it now. But yeah, lots of people have noticed "Gothamites are cray."
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:21 AM on May 6


I look at this and it reminds me of the the SHIELD show, an exploration of a superhero universe minus the actual super heroes. The only reason I can think of to do this is super hero effects cost too much. That's not really a premise I'm interested in.
posted by doctor_negative at 11:27 AM on May 6


I think that this isn't as much Smallville because it looks only to be secondarily about Bruce Wayne and primarily about Jim Gordon as he welcomes people to the GC, bitch.
posted by inturnaround at 11:34 AM on May 6 [4 favorites]


In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by three separate yet equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders, and the goddamn Batman. These are their stories.
posted by charred husk at 11:35 AM on May 6 [17 favorites]


Whatever the merits of this show, Gotham PD the comic series was fantastic.

Argh, Gotham Central. I will leave my nerd badge at the front desk.
posted by yerfatma at 11:40 AM on May 6


It's like Muppet Babies for adults.

Adults? Are you sure about that? It's Batman, which is kiddy enough for kids, only now Batman is a kid. That seems to be pretty much the exact formula of Muppet Babies, period.

The Wire, but with pretty people.

Uh... Okay...
posted by Sys Rq at 11:43 AM on May 6


AMC Presents: Breaking Batman

Bryan Cranston as Commissioner Gordon
Aaron Paul as Victor Zsasz
Dean Norris as Killer Croc
Bob Odenkirk as The Riddler
Giancarlo Esposito as Azrael

I'd watch.
posted by Fizz at 11:46 AM on May 6


I admit, SysRq, that I debated whether or not to put "adults" in quotes.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:47 AM on May 6


I loved the grimdark Batman because ever since I was a teenager I hoped that we'd see him as something a little more badass. But it's been done now and it's time to dial it back a little.

I discovered the Brave and the Bold series way after the fact and it was fun to take a breath and get back to that Silver Age / TV Batman, and the good writing, production values and guest voices really made it.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:48 AM on May 6


I look at this and it reminds me of the the SHIELD show, an exploration of a superhero universe minus the actual super heroes. The only reason I can think of to do this is super hero effects cost too much. That's not really a premise I'm interested in.

Patton Oswalt sums up why this will suck, presciently, in 2007. We don't want to see a show where Batman "is just a little kid and he gets taken away from his mommy and he's very sad." This show is going to be just like Jon Voight's ballsack.
posted by The Bellman at 11:54 AM on May 6 [3 favorites]


primarily about Jim Gordon as he welcomes people to the GC, bitch.

SANDY COHEN BECOMES TWO BROW.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:07 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


Are teenage Bruce and teenage Joker going to stare at one another intensely like Clark and Lex on Smallville until you finally shout "OMG JUST KISS ALREADY!"

Because that was exciting at first, then angering when you realized they NEVER WERE going to kiss. Despite all the sweaty, jaw-clenched passion between them. I don't need any more of that kind of frustration, Fox.
posted by emjaybee at 12:26 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


SANDY COHEN BECOMES TWO BROW.

YES!

The marketing is all wrong here.

Gotham as a batman prequel, meh.
Gotham as an unexpected sequel to the OC, YES!
posted by cacofonie at 12:47 PM on May 6 [2 favorites]


Marissa Cooper is Deadman - nobody can see or hear her and that SUITS EVERYBODY JUST FINE.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 12:52 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


I'd like to see a farce about Bruce Wayne, a notoriously idiotic fop in the mode of Bertie Wooster or Percy Blakeney.

In the pilot, Bruce undergoes any number of comic trials to become a fine art auctioneer at the Gotham branch of Christie's, only to be told that his employment does not afford him a "company discount" on Dürer woodcuts. Further episodes chronicle Bruce's forays into horse breeding, charity balls, the judging of the 46th Annual GothoVision Contest, the synthetic diamond industry, men's fashion, and high-frequency trading, as well as a number of oddly asexual peccadilloes with society women.

Perhaps twice a season he'll offhandedly reveal expert-level knowledge of small arms or radioactive marker isotopes. He explains these slips as "little crossword tiddle-bits I've picked up along the wayside, doncha know."
posted by Iridic at 12:52 PM on May 6 [11 favorites]


They've already cast Catwoman and Penguin, and the promotional material says Riddler, Two-Face, Joker and Poison Ivy are all on the way, so yeah that's happening.

What I want is for these characters to have basically completely separate stories and any interactions between their stories is only tangential. We get to see how the changes in the city affect them, but we see it individually. If they all know each other and have a ton of history together, there's really no reason the grown up batman world could work later. Like Anakin building C3PO. It's fine to suspend your disbelief about impossible things happening, but it has to be palatable to accept that the prequel could lead to the sequel.

And if they're all chums or teenage rivals or whatever then the world has just shrunk down into a fishbowl where the same 12 people just bump into each other again and again for their entire lives.
posted by aubilenon at 1:03 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


And if they're all chums or teenage rivals or whatever then the world has just shrunk down into a fishbowl where the same 12 people just bump into each other again and again for their entire lives.

This would also immediately terrify and alienate anyone currently in the high school demographic.
posted by cacofonie at 1:16 PM on May 6


I'd like to see a farce about Bruce Wayne, a notoriously idiotic fop in the mode of Bertie Wooster or Percy Blakeney yt .

I can't tell whether you mean that he's putting on an even more fantastically inept act as cover or that he's fantastically inept except that he's an accidental savant at being Batman or even that Alfred is actually Batman and using the fantastically inept Bruce Wayne for his money. What I do know, however, is that I want to see any or all of these versions.
posted by Etrigan at 1:19 PM on May 6 [8 favorites]


What I want is for these characters to have basically completely separate stories and any interactions between their stories is only tangential. We get to see how the changes in the city affect them, but we see it individually. If they all know each other and have a ton of history together, there's really no reason the grown up batman world could work later.

Every hero's Rogues Gallery teams up at some point, and then it always falls apart because they're all crazy enough to be supervillains, which is a state of mind that doesn't lend itself to teamwork.
posted by Etrigan at 1:22 PM on May 6


Marissa Cooper is Deadman - nobody can see or hear her and that SUITS EVERYBODY JUST FINE.

Except her nipple, faintly detectable in one scene. (Audibly.) Quel scandal!
posted by Sys Rq at 1:24 PM on May 6


It's like Muppet Babies for adults.

Perhaps you're thinking of the wonderful JL8 (a comic that imagines the Justice League as 8-year-olds).
posted by straight at 1:36 PM on May 6 [9 favorites]


Perhaps you're thinking of the wonderful JL8 (a comic that imagines the Justice League as 8-year-olds).

This is great.
posted by brundlefly at 2:03 PM on May 6 [1 favorite]


I know other people have already mentioned it, but here's my two cents: What's the point of this show? The whole point of Batman as a character is that he's needed. After years of decline, Gotham has sunk past depravity and simple corruption into an endless danse macabre, a sort of insane fever dream full of brightly colored lunatics dancing the citizens to their doom - and only an absolutely serious BMF genius detective dressed like a flying mammal can save it now, maybe. It's beyond the power of the police, or any mortal authority to wake up Gotham. The city is too far gone. That's where Batman's story begins.

So now this new series is going to be set at the beginning of that decline, but what's it going to show? Things getting exponentially worse and worse, despite the best efforts of Gordon to stop them? Seven seasons of failure, until the Wayne kid finally steps up to become a better character and then... the credits roll?
posted by Kevin Street at 2:36 PM on May 6


Marvel did one issue of A-Babies vs. X-Babies.
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:36 PM on May 6


brundlefly, the more I think about your Camp Batfleck v. Grimdark Superman idea, the more I like it. That might be the only hope of that movie not being awful. I loved the Brave and the Bold where he puts on the DKR armor and fights Fifties Jerkass Superman. I might learn to love the Man of Steel series if they go all the way with it and put him in the big S crown.
posted by EatTheWeak at 2:47 PM on May 6 [1 favorite]


Alfred takes 16 yo Bruce Wayne to the Chuckle Hut.
Comedian: “Hi, how many folks are from out of town?
B. Wayne: BO-Ring!
Comedian: “That was a pretty good joke, kid. What are you trying to do, top your parents?'”
B.Wayne *shaking with rage*: “THAT’S! NOT! FUNNY!”
Comedian: “'This is my job. I don't knock the shovel full of bat shit out of your hand when you're at work.”
B.Wayne *Throws glass at comedian*
Comedian: “Argh! My face” *face is slashed by the glass into Glasgow smile. "I'll get you for that!"
*sweaty, jaw-clenched passionate staring ensues*
posted by Smedleyman at 3:06 PM on May 6 [5 favorites]


brundlefly: I wonder if there are already supervillains and superheroes in this universe. Otherwise this one generation of Gotham's kids just all went bonkers, put on costumes and started fighting each other. Something in the water?

I've spent a significant fraction of my life thinking about DC comics continuity, so here's a non-canon but still totally true and accurate I swear explanation: It's kind of like the fall of Rome. (So maybe it's a good thing Bruno Heller is doing this show.)

Gotham is the shadow version of New York City, but whenever New York faced a turning point and went one way or the other, Gotham always went the wrong way. Theodore Roosevelt did not reform Gotham's version of Tammany Hall. (Or he tried, but it didn't work.) Gotham's version of Serpico was murdered before he even got started. Lead poisoning and crack are still huge problems on the streets. The schools are so bad in Gotham, the federal government has stopped including them in national averages because they skew the statistics for everyone else. No one pays taxes, and the city goes broke at least once a decade.

But Gotham is a land of fantastic opportunity, if you're lucky and morally ambiguous enough. You can come off the boat and get a sweatshop running the next day. Your business can ignore the law, as long as it pays tribute to the real powers that be. Everyone there is looking for an angle to get rich quick and then leave the city, but few ever do. Like Las Vegas (but older and more economically diversified) Gotham is a city that runs on hope and desperation, exploiting masses of people who are there to make their fortune.

But that kind of thing can't be sustained forever, and Gotham is nearing the limit. There's too much pollution in the ground and too many broken, miserable citizens to keep the exploitation machine running for much longer. The people want change, but the corrupt system won't permit it, so there's an explosion of costumed criminals right after Batman's debut. They're an expression of the nihilism that everyone in Gotham is feeling, but ramped up to the extreme. They commit crimes and get wildly rich, but never leave the city. They spend millions on elaborate deathtraps and choreograph their crimes like stage plays because they're in it for fame, not money. Beating the police (fairly simple) and beating Batman (The real challenge!), and thus becoming famous as the greatest criminal ever is the only thing left to aspire to in a city that's choking to death on its own excess.
posted by Kevin Street at 3:46 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


Wait wait wait.

Did I just see a hardscrabble teenaged Selina Kyle climbing on things? In a leather jacket? And goggles?

Okay, fine. I'll watch. (Truly I am a weak person.)
posted by dogheart at 3:57 PM on May 6 [3 favorites]


(As performed by fry and Laurie)

Bruce: by golly Alfred, this city is in a rather rum state what.
Alfred: indeed sir.
B: y'know what. I'm bally well minded to pop out and have a bit of a tidy.
A: sir?
B: oh you know Alfred, give those rascals a bit of clip round the ear and tell them to jolly well hop it.
A: if sir is quite certain that's wise...
B: oh indeed I am alfred. Needs doing don'tcha know, needs doing.
A: quite sir, I was merely venturing to suggest that some protective attire might be suitable sir. A mask perhaps?
B: a mask eh? A mask...
A: it is usual in such circumstances to protect ones identidy. To avoid repercussions and so on.
B: well, alright why not, sounds like a lark. I'll leave it in your hands. Something showy perhaps?
A: ahem, alas sir I fear a showy mask might not be immediately available. If I could be so bold, perhaps a terrifying visage of some sort might be called for?
B: you don't mean... Aunt Dahlia?
A: no, sir.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:20 PM on May 6 [22 favorites]


(As performed by fry and Laurie)

I keep throwing my money at the screen, but it just bounces off. Someone call pb.
posted by Etrigan at 5:12 PM on May 6 [7 favorites]


Ooh, I miss Brave and the Bold.

But what I'd *love* here? Tommy Monaghan and Pat Noonan, young hellraisers no not Constantine
posted by Pronoiac at 5:27 PM on May 6


Bryan Cranston as Commissioner Gordon

Actually... Bryan Cranston has already played Gordon, and it was great.
posted by lumensimus at 6:52 PM on May 6 [4 favorites]


Gotham is the shadow version of New York City

I was thinking along the same lines tonight, but was thinking the plot could go in a completely different direction.

Gotham was everything you said, for a while. Vicious crime wave especially which resulted in the deaths of thousands, including the Wayne parents. But then Gotham got its version of Giuliani, crime fell very quickly for some reason (increased policing or elimination of leaded gasoline or increased availability of abortion or whatever), and the bulk of the city gentrified and Gotham had a Duane Reade and a Chase on every corner. Rico killed what little remained of the mob. Sweatshops and the like moved off to Bangladesh and China. If a new immigrant gets caught up in a shady endeavor, it's going to be delivering pot to yuppies or driving a car for Uber, and not some evil criminal enterprise.

Bruce Wayne, in his angry madness, didn't realize this at first. He goes off and trains himself, builds his gadgets, and then leaps out into the night in his spiffy high-tech batsuit and finds... only the occasional mugger in the park. Maybe he messes with a few drug gangs in the parts of the city which have avoided building new condos, but he really doesn't have anything to do. Nothing that the GPD can't handle.

So Bruce becomes the greatest supervillain of them all and creates the things and characters which will send his city back to hell. Just so he can finally feel fulfilled. Perhaps he doesn't directly create the Penguin or the Joker, but he uses his money and influence to destabilize the city and therefore creates the circumstances in which it would seem perfectly logical for someone to put on makeup and a purple suit, and then go on a killing spree using unusual chemicals stolen from the Wayne Corporation.
posted by honestcoyote at 1:27 AM on May 7


I'd like to see a farce about Bruce Wayne, a notoriously idiotic fop in the mode of Bertie Wooster or Percy Blakeney.

A buddy of mine wrote a collection of alternate-universe Jeeves stories that included a great Batman-meets-Jeeves tale. The collection is called Whimsy & Soda.

I'm obviously biased by my friendship (and past collaboration on other projects) with the author, but I think it's great.
posted by yankeefog at 4:51 AM on May 7 [1 favorite]


The origins of Batman. In which Bruce Wayne and his butler Alfred converse on the subject of crime prevention in Gotham City.
Not unlike the work of Just this guy, y'know
posted by asok at 6:44 AM on May 7 [3 favorites]


Kinda reminds me of Patton Oswalts Take Down of the Star Wars prequels.

Fox: Do you like Batman?
Us: Fuck yeah, he's so cool with the hood, and cape and the batmobile...what's he doing Fox
Fox: Well, in this new series you see him as a kid
Us: Umm...is he like a super crime fighting prodigy kid, bringing criminals to justice in between stints at boarding school?
Fox: No, He's a little kid, and he's real sad because his parents are dead
posted by prodigalsun at 12:40 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]


In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by three separate yet equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders, and the goddamn Batman. These are their stories.
posted by crossoverman at 8:09 PM on May 7 [1 favorite]


King Horik thought he was going to Valhalla, but he ended up in Gotham.
posted by homunculus at 11:09 PM on May 7


The first picture of the Batffleck.
posted by octothorpe at 11:13 AM on May 13


And he's wearing a pitch-black version of the Dark Knight Returns suit, which portends Things about how this movie is going to go.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:49 AM on May 13


I hope and pray this is how the show ends.
posted by sparkletone at 1:46 PM on May 13 [5 favorites]


The first picture of the Batffleck.

His ears are so small! They're adorable!
posted by crossoverman at 3:08 PM on May 13


All the costume ear material went to costume vein material.
posted by Etrigan at 3:17 PM on May 13 [1 favorite]


Looks like Bats may be back to not being able to turn his head, but otherwise, a great looking costume. All you dark Batman haters can go Batusi right back to 1966.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:44 AM on May 14


All you dark Batman haters can go Batusi right back to 1966.

All you dark Batman lovers can go scowl and grunt back to 1988.
posted by straight at 9:22 AM on May 14


My problem with this isn't that they're going dark but that The Dark Knight Returns wasn't dark enough for them already.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:26 AM on May 14


Dark on a comic page is not equivalent to dark on a movie screen. If you dressed in actor in these actual colors, he'd make Adam West's Batman look dark.
posted by straight at 9:56 AM on May 14


Even so, making the suit 100% dark-as-a-moonless-night goes way beyond bending the details to match Miller's tone. There's no color breaking up the Affleck suit at all -- even the chest emblem doesn't have any contrast to set it off. It's just an outline.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:48 AM on May 14


This 5-Minute Extended Flash Trailer Is The Justice League We Want

I mostly agree with her BTW. It's doesn't look bad (especially for a CW show), and since I've been kind of digging Arrow, I like the universe-building they've got going on here. Definitely better than the "meh" I felt about the still shots and descriptions.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on May 15


Yeah, I just watched that and it does look pretty decent! The first half of the first season of Arrow was really sluggish for me and Shepherd, but it picked up before it finished. I hear the second season is much much better. (I just got very tired of flashbacks to the island.)

It's nice to see Tom Kavanaugh get work again.
posted by Kitteh at 12:31 PM on May 15 [1 favorite]


For a CW show it looks amazing. And not gonna lie, Barry or not I got a bit of a chill hearing "...and I'm the fastest man alive" while a red blur tears through the streets of Central City.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:38 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]


Wow, The Flash trailer does look really good. It takes it seriously, but not too grimdark seriously.

As someone whose sole knowledge of Arrow was the gif of the star doing a salmon ladder shirtless and that it got better in the first season and seems to be quite beloved by some now, any suggestions on where to start if I do decide to watch it?
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:47 PM on May 15


Yeah, I'll definitely be giving The Flash a go, although between it and Arrow my non-superhero loving wife might actually groan herself to death on the couch next to me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:53 PM on May 15


As someone whose sole knowledge of Arrow was the gif of the star doing a salmon ladder shirtless and that it got better in the first season and seems to be quite beloved by some now, any suggestions on where to start if I do decide to watch it?

I'm just about to finish the first season, and IMO when they introduce Slade Wilson there's a noticeable improvement.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:06 PM on May 15


For me, the point where Arrow S1 gets better is after the winter finale, when there's a showdown between Oliver and the not-so-secret main baddie.

It's totally okay to watch the show for Stephen Amell's abs, though. I know quite a few folks who do.
posted by Kitteh at 1:17 PM on May 15 [1 favorite]


The New Batman Sure Looks Sad
posted by homunculus at 7:03 PM on May 15


"Darkness! No parents!"
posted by crossoverman at 9:35 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]


Wow, The Flash trailer does look really good.

I honestly can't imagine how they're going to come up with consistent challenges for a super-speed character such that I'm not constantly yelling at the screen, "Why are you standing there watching that guy when you could have had him in handcuffs 0.2 seconds after this scene started?"
posted by straight at 6:26 AM on May 16


Part of the fun of the Flash is his rogue's gallery, who are equally powerful in ways that negate his own. Plus, they're colorful goofballs who seem silly and stupid, until they start mopping the floor with him.

For instance, Captain Boomerang. He throws boomerangs, while wearing a silk scarf. Not much threat, right? Well, by the time you've seen him, he's launched a half dozen boomerangs, because he's smart, and knows to always take the initiative. Oh, yeah, they'll explode or give a lethal electrical shock the moment you touch them, or are emitting a lethal gas or crippling sonic attack while they fly all about. Dozens of them. All at once. With bystanders everywhere. Then he shoots a nuclear-armed rocket-powered boomerang missile at you, because of course he would. He's a genius - he makes poor life decisions that are usually boomerang related, but a genius all the same.

And they're all like this - Mirror Master, Captain Cold, the Weather Wizard. Silly people who also happen to be vicious and smart, and are very good at taking the Flash out of his element. I hope the series spends some time with the villains, as they're some of the most fleshed-out and relatable characters in the DC universe. Badguys you'd want to have a beer with.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:29 AM on May 16 [3 favorites]


Part of the fun of the Flash is his rogue's gallery

Haven't some of them been in the Suicide Squad in comics? I vaguely remember Captain Boomerang being in the Squad at one point.
posted by immlass at 7:38 AM on May 16


Captain Boomerang practically is the Squad, second only to Deadshot and Amanda Waller (who christened him "Boomerbutt"). Captain Cold was a member for a little while, but I think that might be it, aside from Boomerang pretending to be Mirror Master for a couple of issues so he could commit extracurricular crimes without getting the Wall angry at him. That didn't go well. (Suicide Squad-era Boomerang: not a genius.)
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:44 AM on May 16


Part of the fun of the Flash is his rogue's gallery, who are equally powerful in ways that negate his own.

Oh, man, the pundits will hate it if the Rogues Gallery starts showing up, because what's the essential difference between the Flash and most of his classic villains? The Flash got his powers by luck, and all the bad-guys made their own powers. "The writers of this show hate people who achieve on their own!"
posted by Etrigan at 7:45 AM on May 16


Yup, Captain Boomerang features prominently in the Suicide Squad as an unusual comic relief. He is mocked, ridiculed, belittled, makes a constant fool of himself, and reliably wrecks house. I mean, puking everywhere because he didn't react well to teleportation, he was still mowing down Parademons on Apokalips itself like it wasn't no thing.

And yes, Squad-era Boomerbutt was indeed a genius. One issue showed that, on a deserted island with next to no resources, he had constructed a giant boomerang and launching system, and was rescued moments before he killed himself trying to ride it to the mainland. The point of the scene was to show his intelligence, resourcefulness and technical mastery - and his utter inability to make reasonable choices when left to his own devices. Dude, just build a boat...
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:48 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]


Let's go with "physics savant who makes horrible life decisions."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:49 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]


(It's important to note that in the desert island incident, he had been stranded there for an entire year and his plan never progressed beyond "Build An Enormous Boomerang.")
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:52 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]


Like they say, when the only tool you have is a boomerang, every problem starts to look like another boomerang. 'Cause they always come around again.
posted by Etrigan at 7:56 AM on May 16


Part of the fun of the Flash is his rogue's gallery, who are equally powerful in ways that negate his own.

I agree with this, in the comics. But the thing that makes speedsters work in comics is that ambiguity about how much time passes from one panel to the next (or within a single panel) is built into the medium. Think about how often Spider-Man blurts out two paragraphs of heckling while he dodges a bullet.

On screen it's painfully obvious that speedsters are incompetent idiots. The Justice League cartoons have been full of moments like this where the Flash stands and stares for an entire second or more while an enemy hits him or gets away or does something that the Flash should have thwarted before the enemy was done thinking about it.
posted by straight at 8:51 AM on May 16


IIRC, they spent some time on this in Impulse - you inhabit different levels of speed. You're not thinking or reacting in super-speed all the time, only when you tap into the speed-force. Until you do, you're working at normal human rates, otherwise (especially in Impulse' case) you will literally die of boredom while waiting for someone to finish a sentence. Likewise, you have to come out of the speed force to interact with those around you, especially when co-ordinating with others, leaving you vulnerable.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:02 AM on May 16


They seem to touch on that in the trailer too, where Barry sees somebody drop stuff and there's a voiceover about how time seemed to slow down for him at that moment.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:03 AM on May 16


Has there ever been a speedster who only ran fast? Like, he didn't have enhanced reflexes to allow him to avoid running into things, and he didn't see things in slow-motion even when running -- he just runs at 100 miles an hour, and if he's doing that on a city street, he's going to kill people (or himself).
posted by Etrigan at 9:08 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]


Has there ever been a speedster who only ran fast?

I believe natural selection weeded them out in the Middle Paleolithic.
posted by Iridic at 9:30 AM on May 16


That sounds like the kind of thing Warren Ellis would do in one of his “superpowers gone wrong” stories but I don't think he tackled super-speed in Ruins or Planetary.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:56 AM on May 16


You're not thinking or reacting in super-speed all the time, only when you tap into the speed-force.

That only helps when the villain catches the hero completely unawares. Once the hero is in battle (as in that Capt Boomerang JLU clip I linked to) or, worse, if the hero shows up at the villain's lair, there's no excuse for dropping out of super-speed until the villain is subdued.

One of my favorite Mark Waid Flash stories, very early in his run on the comic, features Wally dashing into the villain's lair and getting caught in a trap. When the villain finishes monologuing and pushes the trap's Now-Kill-the-Flash button, it fails and the trap springs open.

Then there's a full-page FlashbackTM of Wally zooming into the lair too fast to be seen, scouting the whole building, rescuing the other hostages, unloading the villain's gun, examining the trap, dismantling it, and then getting "caught."
posted by straight at 10:43 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]


Has there ever been a speedster who only ran fast?... he just runs at 100 miles an hour, and if he's doing that on a city street, he's going to kill people (or himself).

You might like this game from the MolyJam (make a game based on one of @PeterMolydeux's tweets parodying Peter Molyneux's crazy game ideas): "Racing game where you only have 2 speeds. 0MPH and 10,000 MPH. Did you just run over a little child? who knows? how does that make you feel?"
posted by straight at 10:48 AM on May 16


One thing I like about this TV trailer is how they handle the action scenes. One problem for making a Flash movie is that all the action scenes are either from the POV of normal people (a red blur) or The Flash (all bullet-time). Both seem like they'd offer limited options for action sequences. You don't really expect as much from a TV show, so I'd be mostly OK with just a red blur.

But what they're doing here to mix the two (especially the scene where he rescues the cyclist), a red blur punctuated by slow-motion shots at key moments, looks pretty great. Probably because it ends up working a lot like a comic panel: a blur of speed lines leading up to a still picture of a key moment of action.

(Although a friend and I like to joke about how the Flash's default strategy is taken from Superman in the original Super Friends cartoon: when in doubt zoom around it really fast and hope that solves the problem. So we burst out laughing at the big tornado scene toward the end.)
posted by straight at 11:00 AM on May 16


The AV Club gives the Arrow season finale an "A" (spoilers). I I've loved Arrow from the start, but season 2 has been a sizable improvement on all counts; here's the AV Club's mid-season 2 roundup. And I thoroughly enjoyed all the ways this week's finale screwed with me.
posted by nicebookrack at 12:40 PM on May 16


OK, home from work, You Tubed - and Weather Wizard, amirite? As apocalyptic and dangerous as he seemed, he was the punching-bag of the group, Flash's usual easy-out. Wait until he runs into the Top or Mirror Master! Imagine the scene where Waller (canonical in Arrow) tries to tell Captain Boomerang that the Flash is off-limits!

Also, the guy in the wheelchair? He's totally Ian Malcolm Jay Garrick, or perhaps Jack Cole. They're trying too hard to set him up as Eobard Thawne (the asshole who killed Barry's mom - the Reverse Flash aka Professor Zoom) but one of the more charming aspects of the Flash family in recent decades is the benevolent and patient mentoring of new speedsters by semi-retired speedster heroes. It's TV gold, and a sly, strong reversal of the now-obvious "Your new best friend who knows more about you than you do - is YOUR SECRET ENEMY!" trope.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:21 PM on May 16


OK, double post. The JLA segment - Flash has no idea what the hell is happening, apart from ultra lethal boomerang shenanigans, and needed to slow down a moment to understand what was going on - he was then decked by a rocket-powered boomerang missile (HA! Toldja!) and before he could regain his bearings and go super-speed, CLAMP! Trapped! To complete fanboi nerd headcannon, the missile likely had sensors and actuators slightly below par with Flash's own reflexes, and only Boomerbutt's smug sadism saved the Flash from being zapped and blown up outright.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:15 PM on May 16


John Wesley Shipp from the '90s Flash series is appearing in at least one episode of the CW series; I would be unsurprised if he were Jay Garrick.
posted by nicebookrack at 7:59 AM on May 17


Like other people in this thread, I heard about how good Arrow had gotten and I really wanted to get into it, but I knew that it took about half a season to get off the ground. And, well, I only have so much time in my life for TV shows so I wasn't looking forward to spending 13 hours waiting for a show to get better.

Anyway, I watched the first couple episodes of the show last night, and they weren't nearly as ho-hum as I've been led to believe. They were fine! In fact, better than fine, they were quite entertaining and will perfectly fill my "gotta fold laundry" television slot for the immediate future.

Maybe the show gets way worse before it gets better, but based on what I saw, if you're on the fence about the show you should at least give the pilot a try.
posted by Ian A.T. at 9:44 AM on May 17


Flash has no idea what the hell is happening, apart from ultra lethal boomerang shenanigans, and needed to slow down a moment to understand what was going on

That's the part that makes no sense. Why would you slow down to figure out what's going on?

Barry Allen is a police scientist. In a typical cop show, the bad guy sends sends bombs to a public event, the hero thwarts the bombs, then there's some scenes where the geeky part of the cast gathers evidence, finds some clues, and helps the hero track the bad guy to his lair.

The whole point of the Flash is that he can do all that in the time between when he destroys the boomerang bombs and when the giant boomerang shows up. That scene should have the giant boomerang swoop down to where the Flash used to be and deploy Captain Boomerang's Video Gloating System, on the screen of which we see the Flash putting Captain Boomerang in handcuffs.
posted by straight at 5:59 PM on May 17


That's the part that makes no sense. Why would you slow down to figure out what's going on?

Because if you catch them all at super-speed and chuck them, they will glitter in the sun and then come back at the crowd you just tried to save. You're in a spot where being isolated from what's going on is hurting you. You stop, re-asses, take cues from those around you, and then BAM! Boomerang missile.

Also, the Cartoon Network JLA Flash is Wally West, who isn't as bright as Barry. He was born a hero, basically - one of the recurring themes in the post-Crisis Flash books was the Rogues taking advantage of Wally's - ummm - slowness compared to Barry. Wally was physically faster, Barry was the better thinker.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:58 PM on May 17


I'm having the hardest time getting my head around just how good the trailers for Flash and Constantine look. Given the current state of their print output, we might be heading into a weird new era where I'll read a DC comic and think "Man, the TV show is so much better."
posted by EatTheWeak at 5:21 PM on May 18 [2 favorites]


we might be heading into a weird new era where I'll read a DC comic and think "Man, the TV show is so much better.

If you count cartoons, I've been saying that for decades.
posted by straight at 7:20 PM on May 18 [1 favorite]


Realtalk.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:50 PM on May 19


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