Skip

Six down, a few more to go...
May 10, 2014 7:38 AM   Subscribe

Arkansas Judge strikes down gay marriage ban. And in a surprising move, didn't put the order on hold so people could appeal.

Money quote:
"Federal judges have ruled against marriage bans in Michigan, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia and Texas, and ordered Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee to recognize same-sex marriages from other states."
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering (140 comments total) 12 users marked this as a favorite

 
I've been following this guy's Instagram this morning, where the county clerk in Caroll County has just said they will not be issuing licenses to the dozens of couples lined up there today. :(
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:40 AM on May 10 [2 favorites]


My favorite quote was the end of the decision
It has been over forty years since Mildred Loving was given the right to marry the person of her choice. The hatred and fears have long since vanished and she and her husband lived full lives together; so it will be for the same-sex couples. It is time to let that beacon of freedom shine brighter on all our brothers and sisters. We will be stronger for it.
posted by jessamyn at 7:41 AM on May 10 [87 favorites]


the county clerk in Caroll County has just said they will not be issuing licenses to the dozens of couples lined up there today

That's tangentially mentioned in the article; licence issues probably won't start until Monday, due to a combination of needing to communicate the change to everyone, and such offices usually aren't open on the weekends.

In any case:

\o/


Suck it, haters. How does the wrong side of history feel, anyway? Little smaller today?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:43 AM on May 10 [16 favorites]


A race is on for state supreme/circuit judges to figure out who goes down in history as ending (this form of) bigotry in their state.
posted by crayz at 7:54 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]


That's tangentially mentioned in the article; licence issues probably won't start until Monday, due to a combination of needing to communicate the change to everyone, and such offices usually aren't open on the weekends.

Except that in this case the office is open, and they know about the change. The article actually says:

However, clerks reached by The Associated Press after Piazza issued his ruling said they hadn't been formally notified of it and weren't prepared to begin issuing marriage licenses.

Translation: "Yeah, we heard, but we don't have to do anything until they tell us to."
posted by parliboy at 7:54 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:56 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]


I really doubt this ruling will stand unfortunately.
posted by miyabo at 7:58 AM on May 10


Translation: "Yeah, we heard, but we don't have to do anything until they tell us to."

To be fair, surely someone in that position is supposed to follow directions from above, not just act independently based on what they've heard in the news?
posted by Jimbob at 8:01 AM on May 10 [20 favorites]


Translation: "Yeah, we heard, but we don't have to do anything until they tell us to."

I think it's more: "we're only open because there's early voting going on, so can you please stop calling us and let us get back to the voting?"

Which seems reasonable. The office isn't open for all business, I doubt anyone could get a marriage licence on the weekend.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:01 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]


You wanna know what real courage is? I checked, and Arkansas circuit judges have to be re-elected every six years. This guy's next election is ten days from now.

If you know anyone who lives in Arkansas and is not a bigot, please urge them to vote in the judicial election a week from Tuesday. You can bet that the homophobes will be turning out in force.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:01 AM on May 10 [116 favorites]


To be fair, surely someone in that position is supposed to follow directions from above, not just act independently based on what they've heard in the news?

Except that they are technically now violating a court order.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:03 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


Update: marriages to begin in 10 minutes in Eureka Springs.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:07 AM on May 10 [9 favorites]


I am just stunned that Arkansas beat Wisconsin. Good for them, but what. the. fuck. Wisconsin??
posted by desjardins at 8:09 AM on May 10 [8 favorites]


The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

Meanwhile, PA's Republicans are impeaching the Democratic attorney general for not defending the anti-same-sex law in court.
posted by dirigibleman at 8:11 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


the first license has been issued!!
posted by nadawi at 8:11 AM on May 10 [12 favorites]


Actually I kind of find it pretty counterintuitive where it's happening: Utah. Texas. Kentucky. Arkansas. Oklahoma. Tennessee.

Not places where you'd expect an elected judiciary to stick their necks out.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:13 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


and for the record - eureka springs issues licenses on saturdays. it's a big wedding destination place for the state. the original refusal was absolutely about gay marriages.
posted by nadawi at 8:16 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]




> Suck it, haters. How does the wrong side of history feel, anyway? Little smaller today?

I don't like this phrase "the wrong side of history." Remember that the "right side" of history is always written by the winners, regardless of truth.
posted by sixohsix at 8:18 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]


Remember that the "right side" of history is always written by the winners, regardless of truth.

Except sometimes the winners actually are right.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:21 AM on May 10 [18 favorites]


can't share them because they're locked down on facebook, but pictures of smiling same-sex married couples holding certificates are starting to pop up!
posted by nadawi at 8:23 AM on May 10 [8 favorites]


Most of those states were ones where the decision was issued by a federal judge and federal judges aren't elected. Judge Piazza in this case is elected, making this an even more impressive and courageous choice.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:23 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]




my friend performed that wedding ^ - i am beaming!
posted by nadawi at 8:29 AM on May 10 [33 favorites]


You wanna know what real courage is? I checked, and Arkansas circuit judges have to be re-elected every six years. This guy's next election is ten days from now.

That's amazing. Do the right thing, indeed.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:30 AM on May 10 [25 favorites]


Balls like the church bells he helped set a-ringing, he has.
posted by delfin at 8:34 AM on May 10 [7 favorites]


The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

I hope his appeal consists entirely of "Um... the legislature said no homo... I guess. Nothing further."
posted by Etrigan at 9:00 AM on May 10 [12 favorites]


AVALANCHE !!! ;=)
posted by Twang at 9:03 AM on May 10


Also, I kind of love the fact that when this news came out, I literally thought, No, it's just another domino falling. That isn't enough for an FPP. Thanks for not being cynical, fffm.
posted by Etrigan at 9:09 AM on May 10 [2 favorites]


Looking it up, I see that Alabama is under the Eleventh Circuit. Does anyone have a sense of what they're likely to do?
posted by immlass at 9:12 AM on May 10


dirigibleman: "Meanwhile, PA's Republicans are impeaching the Democratic attorney general for not defending the anti-same-sex law in court."

Daryl Metcalfe never fails to embarrass the state of Pennsylvania.
posted by octothorpe at 9:12 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


...citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

I'd find it abhorrent.
posted by odinsdream at 9:13 AM on May 10 [5 favorites]


Arkansas is the first former Confederate state to legalize same-sex marriage.
posted by troika at 9:14 AM on May 10 [17 favorites]


...citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

I'd find it abhorrent.


He was elected to do a specific job: defend the state in court. If he doesn't do his job, what then?

My guess is he'll put on a credible-to-laymen but really weak case.

Arkansas is the first former Confederate state to legalize same-sex marriage.

Uh, Texas? Or is that in limbo?
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:16 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


Texas is currently pending appeal.
posted by troika at 9:18 AM on May 10


I agree, one more domino. I worry about a big setback, but recently it has been mostly positive.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:18 AM on May 10


The AG and governor here are generally about as progressive as politicians are allowed to be and still be electable. Which I'll admit is grading on one big damn curve. It's very frustrating being liberal in this state.

I'm fighting cynicism on this because it's probably going to be swatted down in some way until the federal Supreme Court rules, if AR political history is any guide. This is a state that voted something like 3-1 against letting gay people foster or adopt kids. They literally preferred keeping at-risk kids in the system. So we got an uphill battle here on popular opinion alone. This is going to be political rocket fuel for the GOP next election.

Even so, the pictures coming out of Eureka Springs are warming my scabbed little heart. So very happy for those people, getting to grin and sob their way through the making of history in each others' arms.

(Incidentally, if you like a quiet, relaxing, LGBT-friendly vacation spot, Eureka Springs is a very nice place to visit. All are welcome there.)
posted by middleclasstool at 9:18 AM on May 10 [11 favorites]


Question for the law-taking guys and gals:

Is the question of whether to stay a decision of this nature pending appeal vs. making it effective immediately up to the judge(s) discretion? Or do the states each have their own statues dictating whether a ruling should be stayed or not?

I haven't looked over the various pro-SSM decisions, but it seems like there's a split in how they're implemented.
posted by dry white toast at 9:22 AM on May 10


i imagine the stay will be granted, but the marriages happening today are still important - both for the couples, for history, and for the coming judicial fight - every couple that is in some sort of limbo strengthens the case that denying them marital rights causes harm, and granting them those rights causes no harm.
posted by nadawi at 9:23 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


texas is in limbo. it's probably more correct to say that arkansas is the first former confederate state to perform same sex marriages.
posted by nadawi at 9:25 AM on May 10


I'd find it abhorrent.

Given that SSM is on the path to be legalized across the country anyway, maybe it's the better part of valor not set up this precedent that state attorneys general can just decline to enforce laws they disagree with? Republicans have been known to become attorney general from time to time as well.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 9:33 AM on May 10 [12 favorites]


maybe it's the better part of valor not set up this precedent that state attorneys general can just decline to enforce laws they disagree with

That ship already sailed, with all the Prop 8 stuff here in California, when our now-governor declined to defend it when he was the AG. It may have sailed before that, but that's the one that springs to mind first.
posted by rtha at 9:41 AM on May 10 [2 favorites]


//The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.//

I don't know, the AG in VA has said it's obvious the same-sex bans are ultimately going to lose, so defending it is a waste of taxpayer money, thus he won't be doing it.
posted by COD at 9:53 AM on May 10 [7 favorites]


Given that SSM is on the path to be legalized across the country anyway, maybe it's the better part of valor not set up this precedent that state attorneys general can just decline to enforce laws they disagree with? Republicans have been known to become attorney general from time to time as well.

They're not declining to enforce the laws, they're declining to defend them against a constitutional challenge. The AGs have a duty to defend the constituion, remember? The remedy to this is that anyone who has standing can defend the laws. But to have standing you have to have suffered harm. So if a libertarian sues the AG saying that the state's unemployment insurance is unconstitutional and the republican AG refuses to defend, the republican governor refuses to defend and the republican legislature refuses to defend, any number of people who are going to be harmed by this action can step in and defend the law on its behalf.

The problem with gay marriage is that it's technically such a non-fucking-issue legally to everyone else who gets married to whom. This means that nobody has standing to challenge the law because, like you'd expect, nobody can show actual harm to claim standing. The Supreme Court (including Scalia!) have come to the party in Perry and said it's absolutely ridiculous to claim that Adam and Steve getting married harms you in some way, shape or form despite your bigotry. So you have this catch-22 of AG, governors and legislators not wanting to defend a law and nobody from the general public is able to defend the law because they can't show harm outside their own bigotry.

In the case of republican AGs not wanting to enforce progressive laws, this will be easy to defend because no doubt any attempt to fuck over the populace is going to give someone standing. Bigotry on the other hand is no reason for harm to claim standing.
posted by Talez at 9:54 AM on May 10 [7 favorites]


The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

As a Virginian, I cannot
posted by indubitable at 10:08 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


If you missed it, here is KentuckyAttorney General Jack Conway announcing he won't appeal a decision that would allow same sex marriage. Unfortunately, I believe the state hired an outside attorney to bring the case, but still.
posted by salvia at 10:08 AM on May 10


here are some more pictures and details about how another county clerk (in training) stepped up to issue the licenses.
posted by nadawi at 10:22 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


Arkansas circuit judges have to be re-elected every six years. This guy's next election is ten days from now.

Kind of makes one wonder if he looked at the polls, saw that he was headed for defeat anyway, and did this as a "suck it haterz" act of conscience.

In any case, good on him, and congrats to the people of Arkansas!
posted by Thorzdad at 10:32 AM on May 10


Kind of makes one wonder if he looked at the polls, saw that he was headed for defeat anyway, and did this as a "suck it haterz" act of conscience.

Nope. He's running unopposed.
posted by Talez at 10:36 AM on May 10 [6 favorites]


Meaning he did the right thing for the right reasons.

I wouldn't be completely certain that "I'm running unopposed, therefore there can be no political blowback" wasn't part of the calculus, though.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 10:38 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


For the first time in quite a while, I have some pride in my home state. The Clinton wing of the Democrats still put up a good fight there, but it has been moving rightward at only a somewhat slower pace than its neighbors. I'm very pleased that this was able to happen before they managed to kick out the entirety of the old guard, who for all their faults have always been behind, not working against all that is good and right with the world, unlike the new breed of crazies.
posted by wierdo at 10:39 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


This is making me tear up. I only lived in Arkansas for a few months as a kid, but have deep roots there--parents, grandparents, great grandparents, family reunions in the backwoods, etc. This is a truly amazing thing.
posted by Mavri at 10:55 AM on May 10


Running unopposed won't stop an write-in campaign, and I'd bet one is going to be organized. Given the small number of people voting in a typical judicial election, he'll still be at considerable risk of losing. So I'd say it's still an act of conscience, especially if he had the option to delay ruling for a couple of weeks (I don't know if he had, there may be deadlines involved.) Good for him.
posted by tavella at 10:55 AM on May 10


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: The attorney general of Arkansas is pledging to appeal the decision even though he supports gay marriage, citing his duty to defend the state in court proceedings. I can respect that.

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. declared in an interview that state attorneys general are not obligated to defend laws that they believe are discriminatory (NYT, Feb. 24, 2014)


Also, these are some awesome shoes. Anyone know where I could get some in size 12 to 12 1/2?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:12 AM on May 10 [2 favorites]


They may not be legally obligated to defend them, but they have a moral obligation to voters to do what they were elected to do.

That doesn't mean he has to do it well, just well enough that nobody can say he purposefully threw the game.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:17 AM on May 10


!
posted by Jacqueline at 11:17 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


They may not be legally obligated to defend them, but they have a moral obligation to voters to do what they were elected to do.

That doesn't mean he has to do it well, just well enough that nobody can say he purposefully threw the game.


Nah.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:23 AM on May 10 [1 favorite]


filthy light thief: "Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. declared in an interview that state attorneys general are not obligated to defend laws that they believe are discriminatory (NYT, Feb. 24, 2014)"

Yeah, but... he like totally said that in an interview. I'm gonna need an official certified proof of statement legally delivered by certified mail or official courier before I can act on this statement.
posted by symbioid at 11:28 AM on May 10


Nah.

How eloquent and insightful.

Will your opinion change when it's a Republican AG refusing to defend gay marriage laws? Or pro-choice laws? Or legalizing pot? Or any of the other Republican shibboleths?

As someone said above, this really isn't a good precedent to be setting. If you are elected to do a job, the voters quite necessarily expect you to do the damn job. Cf Rob Ford, for example.

Just as pharmacists (shouldn't/can't, depending on location) refuse to dispense birth control or Plan B because of their allegedly moral values, a state AG should not be permitted to refuse to defend the state's constitution because they find that defending it would be against their own moral code. It's the job they were elected for, and therefore the job they must do. If it's such
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 11:31 AM on May 10 [4 favorites]


Will your opinion change when it's a Republican AG refusing to defend gay marriage laws? Or pro-choice laws? Or legalizing pot? Or any of the other Republican shibboleths?

I'm not a moral relativist, so no.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:35 AM on May 10 [3 favorites]


Just as pharmacists (shouldn't/can't, depending on location) refuse to dispense birth control or Plan B because of their allegedly moral values, a state AG should not be permitted to refuse to defend the state's constitution because they find that defending it would be against their own moral code. It's the job they were elected for, and therefore the job they must do. If it's such

The job they were elected for was to faithfully execute the laws not defend them. Anyone who has standing can defend the law. Just because the law is so shitty that nobody but the state has standing isn't a good reason for the AG to defend the law or force the AG to defend the law.
posted by Talez at 11:35 AM on May 10


To me, it makes some difference whether an AG is proposing not to defend a case at all, or merely declining to appeal an unfavorable ruling in a case. In the Kentucky case, it seems to be the latter—and, possibly colored by the fact that I think it's a right choice, I am happy that AG is exercising discretion.
posted by jepler at 11:37 AM on May 10 [2 favorites]


There's a big difference between an AG refusing to defend based on their moral code, and refusing to defend based on a considered opinion that there is no possible winning legal argument. The latter seems fairly reasonable.
posted by Lemurrhea at 12:04 PM on May 10 [6 favorites]


Alright, now I can be proud of my home state! I haven't checked Facebook yet, and I dread seeing what friends and family have posted about it. Must...resist...replying...
posted by zardoz at 1:04 PM on May 10


filthy light thief: I had to go looking for those shoes! I found them on Etsy but the largest size is men's 10/women's 11.5.
posted by desjardins at 1:18 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


It's what you get when you go revolution vs evolution. What I've found entertaining these past few years is watching politicos trying to gauge the windsock of public opinion. Such a quick, mass volte face is rare in public discourse, most disturbing for those whose next election is on the line. Whatever you do, don't look down!
posted by IndigoJones at 1:38 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


The local alternative weekly is covering this thing like crazy. Here's a good quote:

"The first to marry were Kristin Seaton, 27, and Jennifer Rambo, 26, both of Fort Smith. Minutes after the couple received a license, Fayetteville minister Laura Phillips accepted their certificate and performed the marriage. They'd been together for four years.

After Circuit Judge Chris Piazza overturned the state's ban on same-sex marriage yesterday, Rambo and Seaton got in their car to head to Little Rock, hoping to be married this morning, the AP reported. When they learned the Pulaski County Courthouse wouldn't be opened, they headed to Eureka Springs, where they slept in their Ford Focus after arriving at 2 a.m. They woke up every 30 minutes to make sure they were at the front of the line.

A deputy county clerk had earlier refused to issue licenses. The county clerk was away, and the deputy, Lana Gordon, said she was concerned yesterday's ruling didn't apply to Carroll County. She'd asked the attorney general's office for an opinion; when she didn't receive one, she closed the courthouse and sent the 100 or so people away. Minutes later, another deputy clerk in training, Jane Osborne, announced she would issue licenses. Osborne was "happy to do it," she said."
posted by box at 1:50 PM on May 10 [6 favorites]


I heard the term crazy quilt so much in cultural studies courses way back in the day, but it's never seemed quite so apropos.
posted by psoas at 1:52 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


So, does anyone else worry this is a Prague Spring?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:32 PM on May 10


...you're concerned that the Soviets are about to invade?
posted by indubitable at 3:58 PM on May 10 [9 favorites]


I'm looking forward to the new Plastic People of the Universe record.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:05 PM on May 10 [5 favorites]


Government officials decide not to enforce all kinds of laws when it suits them. If they feel compelled to "defend the constitution" from the gays, maybe they need to reflect on what it is that is really motivating their sudden interest in the law.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:40 PM on May 10


I'm guessing the State's Attorney General actually has a long-standing professional interest in the law.
posted by Area Man at 4:51 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


They may not be legally obligated to defend them, but they have a moral obligation to voters to do what they were elected to do.

The oath taken is not to defend the state, but to defend the constitution. The judge has ruled that the new law violates the constitution. An AG is not required to defend a violation of the constitution.
posted by JackFlash at 5:43 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


To be clear, I'm worried that a future Santorum-like administration will reverse these and punish those who came out. (For example, in the military)
History is full of advances in civil rights followed by retreats. (Reconstruction to Jim Crow. Rights for Jews advanced in the first part of the 1800s followed by a lot of anti-Semitism in the latter part.)
The Supreme Court is on a razor's edge and a couple of Thomas's could push it into the territory of fundamentalists.
These victories are occurring in states where a sizable portion of the population (majority?) don't support the decisions.
I worry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:57 PM on May 10


The oath taken is not to defend the state, but to defend the constitution.
Officials of Arkansas take an oath to support (not "defend") both the United States Constitution and the Arkansas Constitution. This ban was written into the Arkansas Constitution.
posted by Flunkie at 6:00 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


Arkansas is the first former Confederate state to legalize same-sex marriage.
posted by troika


Virginia's hold knocks it off the pedestal?
posted by Atreides at 6:01 PM on May 10


To be clear, I'm worried that a future Santorum-like administration will reverse these and punish those who came out.

Okay, but what are we supposed to do about this possibly being a possibility? If all there is to "do" about it is worry, then I say don't borrow trouble.
posted by rtha at 6:11 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


I appreciate the discourse in this thread but I came for the happy pictures. Was not disappointed.

Congrats folks that got hitched!
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:20 PM on May 10


dances_with_sneetches: To be clear, I'm worried that a future Santorum-like administration will reverse these and punish those who came out. (For example, in the military)

Support for same-sex marriage hits new high; half say Constitution guarantees right (Washington Post, March 5, 2014).
Half of all Americans believe that gay men and lesbians have a constitutional right to marry, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll in which a large majority also said businesses should not be able to deny serving gays for religious reasons.

Fifty percent say the U.S. Constitution's guarantee of equal protection gives gays the right to marry, while 41 percent say it does not.

Beyond the constitutional questions, a record-high 59 percent say they support same-sex marriage, while 34 percent are opposed, the widest margin tracked in Post-ABC polling.

The poll was conducted in the wake of a series of rulings by federal judges that state bans on same-sex marriage and prohibitions on recognizing marriages performed elsewhere are unconstitutional.
True, the older generation, those who vote in greater numbers and hold more political sway are less likely to support gay marriage, but any political shift back will only be a temporary setback.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:48 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


octothorpe: "Daryl Metcalfe never fails to embarrass the state of Pennsylvania."

Daryl Metcalfe makes me embarassed to be a human being.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:19 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]


roomthreeseventeen: "Except that they are technically now violating a court order."

Considering how often news media misrepresent or just plain get wrong the details of any technical subject (or they get punked) as a government worker I'd be waiting for the policy change to come down through channels. Especially in this case where a delay of a couple days is unlikely to cause additional harm.
posted by Mitheral at 10:23 PM on May 10


Yay!
posted by brundlefly at 11:00 PM on May 10 [1 favorite]



I've been following this guy's Instagram this morning, where the county clerk in Caroll County has just said they will not be issuing licenses to the dozens of couples lined up there today. :(
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:40 on May 11 [1 favorite +] [!]


Ok. This has to be one of the coolest instagram accounts I have ever seen. This is what its supposed to be used for.

Awesome link. You deserve hundreds of favorites, roomthreeseventeen.
posted by hal_c_on at 1:07 AM on May 11


True, the older generation, those who vote in greater numbers and hold more political sway are less likely to support gay marriage, but any political shift back will only be a temporary setback.

"It gets better" = asshole old people* die and can't vote to hurt you anymore.

*asshold people
posted by hal_c_on at 1:10 AM on May 11 [5 favorites]


Meet The “Woman In A Rainbow Dress” Who Officiated The First Legal Same-Sex Marriages In Arkansas

Also, Mitheral, the question of harm has come into a lot of these cases, especially where one member of the couple is terminally ill. (see, Illinois, Indiana)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 3:23 PM on May 11 [3 favorites]


Faulker County says no same-sex marriages tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:41 PM on May 11


Faulker County says no same-sex marriages tomorrow.

I've tried to teach my kids that when you give too many reasons for something, you're not really debating a proposition anymore; you're just trying to tire the other person out so they forget that they're right.
posted by Etrigan at 6:12 PM on May 11


The statement from Faulkner County says the State Supreme Court must strike down a state law, not a circuit judge.

Wait what? Any US/Arkansas lawyers wanna weigh in on that? Feels weird.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:37 PM on May 11


benton county is also refusing to issue licenses to same sex couples tomorrow. luckily, washington county right next door looks like they're willing. it'll be an interesting day. i expect the stay to go through but here's hoping some more couples can get married first.
posted by nadawi at 7:30 PM on May 11


the washington county clerk has shown up and about 15 couples are lined up outside! county clerk is there and the process should start here in about 5 minutes!

it's hard for me to even describe how it feels to have my home town take this step. even knowing the stay is probably coming, i'm still welling up.
posted by nadawi at 5:57 AM on May 12 [4 favorites]


the state has officially filed their appeal. here's hoping the county clerks type fast!
posted by nadawi at 6:01 AM on May 12


oh - and pulaski county, where little rock is, is also opening - they're making the news more because they're the county the capital is in and there's more people lined up outside.
posted by nadawi at 6:08 AM on May 12


oh - oh and of course carroll county, where eureka springs is at, is expected to also issue licenses for as long as they are able today.
posted by nadawi at 6:12 AM on May 12


laura and her magnificent rainbow dress is back at it again!
posted by nadawi at 6:17 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


even knowing the stay is probably coming, i'm still welling up.

I am careful to never look at articles and photos of each of the newly legal marriage places at work, because I can't read captions like "...after 42 years together, X and Y finally were able..." without bursting into tears.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:23 AM on May 12 [4 favorites]


brad carl at 40/29 is posting more pictures on twitter for those who have onions to blame for the water works.
posted by nadawi at 6:28 AM on May 12


more pictures
posted by nadawi at 6:49 AM on May 12


laura and her magnificent rainbow dress is back at it again!

I would like to write a thank you card to this lovely lady!
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:50 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


via Bard Carl: One man came in and started handing out money for those here to pay for their new marriage licenses
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:51 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


roomthreeseventeen - i could get it to her. i already told her y'all loved her. :)
posted by nadawi at 6:51 AM on May 12


I'll e-mail you.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:54 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]




oh yay! pictures from pulaski county! i'm still hunting around for carroll county news.
posted by nadawi at 8:00 AM on May 12


i'm seeing some reports that marion county is also issuing licenses.
posted by nadawi at 8:10 AM on May 12


brad carl at 40/29 is posting more pictures on twitter

I was scrolling through that feed and saw the posts about the flash floods and I was like DAMN even the weather is crying!

Why is it so dusty in my work today.
posted by rtha at 8:39 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


this might kick up some more dust for you...

love stories from little rock.

and that instagram account linked up top is still going strong. so many babes in arms in these southern gay marriages! makes me so happy!
posted by nadawi at 8:44 AM on May 12


Pretty unsurprising that Benton County (and Faulkner, for that matter) would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. Benton County, home of Wal-Mart, is one of the most right wing counties in the entire country.

I suspect that you will see a bunch of quotes from pastors around Eureka Springs claiming that the Christ of the Ozarks is weeping again, just like they did when Eureka started issuing (completely meaningless to the government) certificates of domestic partnership some years back. You will also see them claiming that any flooding is the direct result of this ruling. You'll never see them claim that all the floods and tornadoes of the past 10 years were the result of banning gay marriage, though. Their God is the same one that picks sides in high school football games, unfortunately.
posted by wierdo at 8:44 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


I don't know, man, these ladies enjoying being married so much? I just don't know. :D
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:45 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


there's a double rainbow over eureka springs today.
posted by nadawi at 8:46 AM on May 12 [2 favorites]


seems like carroll county/eureka springs have stopped issuing licenses. the couples who were waiting there are now heading over to washington county where the marriages are still going strong.
posted by nadawi at 8:53 AM on May 12


Grav Weldon ‏@GravWeldon 29s
Carrol County courthouse, in Eureka Springs, has been shut down by prosecuting attorney, Tony Rogers. #lgbt @suziparker @CNN
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:53 AM on May 12


Only Pulaski, White, Lonoke, Conway, Saline, Faulkner, and Washington counties are subject to this particular ruling, since they were parties to the case. Other counties would have to be sued anew to compel them to issue if they choose not to.

I'm surprised the Carroll County Attorney thinks he has the authority to shut down the courthouse. Absent a court order, only the county's quorum court has the authority to do that.
posted by wierdo at 8:59 AM on May 12 [2 favorites]


Only Pulaski, White, Lonoke, Conway, Saline, Faulkner, and Washington counties are subject to this particular ruling, since they were parties to the case.

Faulkner is claiming that it left the case before the verdict, and presumably are also citing the binding precedents of "Nuh uh" and "No reverse-takebacksies."
posted by Etrigan at 9:09 AM on May 12 [1 favorite]


looks like marriages will continue until at least tomorrow afternoon.
posted by nadawi at 11:32 AM on May 12




these aren't official counts yet, i don't think - but it looks like 160 in little rock, 89 in fayetteville, 1 in marion county, and at least 15 in eureka springs.
posted by nadawi at 4:55 PM on May 12 [1 favorite]


some video from fayetteville and from little rock. i just keep bursting into tears today.
posted by nadawi at 5:21 PM on May 12


While it's definitely not as awesome as actual marriage licenses being issued to same sex couples in Arkansas, this quote represents a lot of progress in and of itself. Amazing how quickly things have changed:
“I’m not opposed to them having some property rights and other things that usually attend marriage, but I am a one-woman-one-man kind of a guy,” said Tom Lundstrum, justice of the peace for Tontitown. The Bible teaches against same-sex marriage, he added, but also teaches against hatred.
Even religious folks from small towns are coming around to the point that they would support civil unions. Keeping in mind that this is a person from a small town in a state that felt the need to make it illegal for my not-wife's employer to allow me on their health insurance plan in their rush to outlaw the gay, I am quite encouraged. I expected far more hateful things to be printed in the newspaper.

Even the comments are less offensive by half than I expected they would be.
posted by wierdo at 5:48 PM on May 12 [1 favorite]


tontitown guy better show some sense of progress - those junk shops owe a lot to the arkansas gays. :)

but, yeah, i agree. i mean, tonitown is still northwest arkansas, and that's certainly the most progressive part of the state - but it's very heartening to me, a girl who realized she liked other girls in the 90s in arkansas. while it's glacially slow for those waiting for justice, and too slow for those who didn't make it to this day with us, i am still gobsmacked at just how how fast the sea change has come.
posted by nadawi at 6:15 PM on May 12 [1 favorite]


there have been 288 same-sex marriages state-wide since Saturday, licenses are $60 each, so a total of $17,280 in revenue.
posted by nadawi at 6:39 AM on May 13 [1 favorite]


and looking at my fb wall - there's at least 3 more added to that number this morning. everyone seems to expect the stay by midday.
posted by nadawi at 6:42 AM on May 13


Idaho!
posted by davidjmcgee at 5:25 PM on May 13 [7 favorites]


Meanwhile, the Fourth Circuit Court Of Appeals heard arguments on Virginia's ban this morning (I was there! For an entirely unrelated case!) and things look reasonably promising.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:34 PM on May 13


I was just reading about the Fourth Circuit hearing (in the wapo) and rolling my eyes at the one judge who insists that the state has an interest because babies.
posted by rtha at 5:46 PM on May 13


And! Arkansas Supreme Court has refused to stay the ruling!
posted by rtha at 4:04 PM on May 14 [2 favorites]


\o/

So now the asshats have to appeal to what, the Fourth Circuit (who, presumably, will have the same 'fuck you' response)?

It's starting to look like a race to see which case gets to SCOTUS first.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:35 AM on May 15


(Hey Matt, when SCOTUS finally does rule on whichever case gets there first, and affirms that gay marriage is a constitutional right, can you like, rainbowify MeFi for the day?)
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:37 AM on May 15


Arkansas is in the 8th Circuit. I'm not 100% sure where they'd go for a stay after the state supreme court, though - it might be directly to the justices.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:41 AM on May 15


Hey Matt

I'd drop him a line directly. I don't think he's read this thread.
posted by jessamyn at 7:41 AM on May 15


No, this wouldn't go to the Fourth Circuit or the Eighth Circuit. This is a state court matter so the only body above the Arkansas Supreme Court is the U.S. Supreme Court. I believe the U.S. Supreme Court is less likely to grant a stay in this matter than in the Utah matter because the lower court was a state district court, but I'm not sure about that. Once the Arkansas courts are done with the matter, which isn't that close to happening, whoever is then the current loser could petition the U.S. Supreme Court to take the appeal.
posted by Area Man at 7:46 AM on May 15


So now the asshats have to appeal to what, the Fourth Circuit (who, presumably, will have the same 'fuck you' response)?

Which asshats? The asshats in Arkansas are appealing either to the Arkansas Court of Appeals or the Arkansas Supreme Court (it looks like they have an intermediary Court of Appeals, but since they keep asking the Arkansas Supreme Court for a stay, I assume they're being bypassed for some reason, but I could very easily be wrong about that). From there they could appeal to the United States Supreme Court.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:49 AM on May 15


while the arkansas supreme court has refused to stay the ruling - it's procedural - piazza still has to rule on the stay so it's too early for the arkansas supreme court to look at it. what initially looked like good news seemed to throw more confusion into the works, because the 2 remaining counties who were still performing same sex marriages have halted until they get clarification from piazza. on the bright side, arkansas issued over 400 marriage licenses in the short time they were able, which is over $24000 in license fees alone.
posted by nadawi at 7:59 AM on May 15


oof. it looks like the clarification they're looking for might invalidate the same sex marriages if it doesn't go the way we hope.
posted by nadawi at 8:09 AM on May 15


rtha: "I was just reading about the Fourth Circuit hearing (in the wapo) and rolling my eyes at the one judge who insists that the state has an interest because babies."

The thing is, I think you can construct an intellectually coherent argument that the state *does* have an interest because babies. But that would be a much more expansive, Bismarckian concept of state power, and one that is totally antithetical to the actual marriage equality opponents.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:16 AM on May 15


Which asshats?

Are you being disingenuous? The asshats that are anti-equality. Those asshats.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:30 AM on May 15


No, I meant "which group of asshats." That why I said "the asshats in Arkansas." I wasn't sure if you meant the Arkansas case or a different one.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:39 AM on May 15 [1 favorite]




Great news, but not surprising. I cannot even conceive of an internally consistent devil's advocate argument which would have said that the state could not bar same-sex marriages, but that the state nonetheless could bar clerks from granting same-sex marriages.

Classic scenario for a clarification, and now it's been clarified. Huzzah.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:25 PM on May 15


The AG's office will now again seek a stay and this time the Arkansas Supreme Court might grant the motion.
posted by Area Man at 12:31 PM on May 15


« Older The Internet: The Music Video   |   You Made Your Big Mistake When... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post