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The Racoon Not Only Talks, He Also Adjusts Himself
May 19, 2014 8:27 PM   Subscribe

The new "Guardians of the Galaxy" trailer conclusively proves that the Star Wars films really would've benefited from a '70s superhits soundtrack. And details are beginning to trickle in concerning the Agent Carter series, including the fact that the show will include Howard Stark, Gabe Jones, and Dum Dum Duggan.
posted by Ipsifendus (168 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite

 
Here Marvel, take my wallet.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:33 PM on May 19 [31 favorites]


I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high for the Agent Carter series, but it's so damn hard. I want it to be amazing. I've got good associations with the writers attached to it so far, at least?
posted by dinty_moore at 8:34 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]


And why yes, I probably will be figuring out a new drinks menu for the Agent Carter premier watch party I will inevitably have.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:35 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


Groot.

Groot!

GROOT!

Groot?
posted by eriko at 8:37 PM on May 19 [3 favorites]


There needs to be a film about a Groot and Hodor road trip at some point. Will also accept fanfic.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:42 PM on May 19 [13 favorites]


Include r2d2 on the road trip and it will be perfect.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:44 PM on May 19 [3 favorites]


In my fevered imagination, Rocket masquerades on Earth as Ranger Rick.
posted by hippybear at 8:45 PM on May 19 [22 favorites]


I don't know, I got a whiff of Super Mario Brothers, especially from the bit with Glenn Close. I'm glad they're taking a risk with this, but the thing about jumping the canyon on your motorcycle is that there's no such thing as missing by a little. You either succeed spectacularly or fail spectacularly.

It's hilarious that they made this at all, and I applaud the spirit behind it, but I'm not sure there's anything in the trailer that really says "good movie" to me. It's a bunch of CGI that everybody always complains about, and some lame quips ("A-holes"?), and what seems like an unseemly emphasis on Hot Green Girl, and... I don't know. I'd be happy to be wrong.

Also, as long as I'm making everybody hate me, I don't know how many of you were actually alive when 70's superhits were on the radio for the first time around, but if I never hear "hooked on a feeling" again, it'll be too soon.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 9:01 PM on May 19 [9 favorites]


I'm high on believing that you're in love with me!
posted by hippybear at 9:05 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


Glenn Close is in this too?

YESSS I am Here for This.
posted by warm_planet at 9:10 PM on May 19


>but I'm not sure there's anything in the trailer that really says "good movie" to me

It's a silly summer super hero action movie that doesn't take itself seriously and was made by someone with a strong sense of aesthetic sensibility and yeah I'm kind of curious to see Bradley Cooper voice a violent raccoon.

Something went right in the marvel system, because they've been putting out well crafted movies lately. Cap'n America 2 was perhaps the least dumb action movie of its class since Verhoeven. We all loved the Avengers.

Somehow I had never heard of the Guardians prior to hearing about the movie, and at first the entire concept seemed ridiculous – there's a talking raccoon. Yet they managed to sell me on it; that first trailer was really good.

But think about all the money that is going to be poured on marketing this movie. It's still three months out.
posted by pmv at 9:20 PM on May 19 [7 favorites]


It's hilarious that they made this at all, and I applaud the spirit behind it, but I'm not sure there's anything in the trailer that really says "good movie" to me.

It looks like a lot of fun, with an offbeat sense of humor and a talking raccoon with a machine gun and bad attitude, that flies spaceships and pals around with a walking tree that knows how to party. The love child of Han Solo and Jon Criton clone is in it too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 PM on May 19 [7 favorites]


Everyone who scratched their collective heads at Rocket Raccoon's inclusion in Marvel vs. Capcom 3 just went OH SHIT WAIT WHAT IS MODOC GOING TO BE IN
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:30 PM on May 19 [7 favorites]


Also, it looks like a lived-in universe and filmed by somebody who isn't still composing shots for television. Imagine that.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:34 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


It looks like silly stupid good times ... but I also hope it's not all trailer and marketing. I'm still going to watch it, but more for Chris Pratt's abs than the raccoon. I'm shallow like that.

And: We all loved the Avengers. Not quite. It was fun for awhile, but I lost interest during the interminable Battle of New York.
posted by kanewai at 9:34 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]


Sometimes I feel like I'm really missing out because I'm not up on all the Marvel stuff but I think I'm okay with just enjoying this as a fun popcorn movie. Also, Chris Pratt.

the Star Wars films really would've benefited from a '70s superhits soundtrack.

Well, at least in the 70s we had the space disco Star Wars theme.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:35 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


Isn't the Marvel franchise just a license to print money at this point? I mean, if I had that, it seems like this is exactly the sort of thing I'd take a flyer on. Why not? Make the fuckin' killer raccoon movie while you can. I was watching an old Dinner for Five episode earlier, and someone said (in response to an actor saying he or she'd be paid $6000 a day, and that being a motivating factor), "How much steak can you eat?" Meaning, essentially, there's a point at which more money just isn't that great anymore, so you can start thinking about something else.
posted by axiom at 9:35 PM on May 19


HOWLING COMMANDOS FUCK YEAH. Ahem. I am really getting quite excited about Agent Carter. Peggy Carter and (at least two of) the Howling Commandos? Given that all I wanted from the Cap 1 movie was more Howling Commandos, I am super excited.
posted by yasaman at 9:41 PM on May 19


My wife hates most superhero movies. I made her watch the trailer. When the mix tape kicked in and the raccoon adjusted himself she said, "Opening day, we're there." I love this woman.
posted by Ber at 9:53 PM on May 19 [5 favorites]


Every time I start to let myself get excited about Agent Carter, I remind myself of how thrilled I was about the idea of Agents of SHIELD and how terribly it disappointed me.

Guardians of the Galaxy gets points for not taking itself seriously and cheesy music, but again, trying not to get my hopes up too high. I am not seven and this will not be Star Wars, no matter how much the guys making it (who are probably my age peers) want it to be. I'll still watch it and I hope I enjoy it. I'm just aware they're promising things that they can't necessarily deliver, because nobody can.
posted by immlass at 9:58 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]


the fact that I am not on writing Agent Carter episodes right now is proof we live in an unjust universe (and also I don't want to move.)
posted by The Whelk at 10:00 PM on May 19 [5 favorites]


I'm still going to watch it, but more for Chris Pratt's abs than the raccoon. I'm shallow like that.

That we line in a world where we get both is proof, to me, of a benevolent and loving something or another.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:08 PM on May 19 [14 favorites]


ugh i am so stupidly excite for this movie it is embarrassing
posted by elizardbits at 10:09 PM on May 19 [8 favorites]


but I'm not sure there's anything in the trailer that really says "good movie" to me.

All I know is that there is a motherfucker of a raccoon snarling and shooting up the place. The rest of the movie could be paint drying and I'd still be in.

Also, I've liked the soundtrack so far, so that's a good sign.
posted by quin at 10:09 PM on May 19


ALSO - I really like Djimon Honsou in everything ever so that is another bonus.

Also also - Dave Bautista was pretty good in The Man With The Iron Fists so as much as I would have loved to see the Rock as Drax I think he will do a decent job of being comically huge.

Also III: Return to Planet Also - the scene where Groot hands the little girl a flower is hilarious when you consider that it is like a human handing someone a chunk of human flesh.
posted by elizardbits at 10:11 PM on May 19 [11 favorites]


I'm not sure there's anything in the trailer that really says "good movie" to me

I don't really think of it as much more than a tasty amuse-bouche before the glorious Avengers II feast to come next year.
posted by elizardbits at 10:12 PM on May 19 [3 favorites]


Not just any chunk, elizardsbits; remember that flowers are plant genitals.
posted by Harald74 at 10:15 PM on May 19 [25 favorites]


I'm still going to watch it, but more for Chris Pratt's abs than the raccoon. I'm shallow like that.

I'm a furry. It's about the raccoon. I'm shallow like THAT. :3
posted by hippybear at 10:23 PM on May 19 [11 favorites]


It really reminds me of a much more fantastic version of Fifth Element more than anything. Chris Pratt's Starlord is exactly what I think a young Korben Dallas would be like.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:28 PM on May 19 [6 favorites]


I remind myself of how thrilled I was about the idea of Agents of SHIELD and how terribly it disappointed me.

Rumor has it that it has started to rise to the occasion following the latest Captain America movie. I'll wait until I hear that a few more times before I get my hopes back up, but still...
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:38 PM on May 19


I really wish I could remember who made this observation:

DC: "We can't make a Wonder Woman movie, her origins would be too confusing for the audience!"

Marvel: "Here is a raccoon with a machine gun."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:40 PM on May 19 [94 favorites]


There aren't words for how happy this makes me.
posted by dogheart at 10:49 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]


Best use of Norm Greenbaum in a movie since Miami Blues.
posted by planetesimal at 11:11 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


how terribly it disappointed me.

It got so, so much better.
posted by flaterik at 11:22 PM on May 19 [9 favorites]


I feel like a stranger person all the time; totally disinterested in CGI raccoons, totally down with watching a movie about John C. Reilly, Average Galactic Administrator.
posted by furiousthought at 11:24 PM on May 19 [23 favorites]


It got so, so much better.

Yeah, gotta ditto this. While I wouldn't necessarily say it's amazing, it felt like a lot of the early stuff was just killing time until Cap 2. I still don't like about half of the cast, but It gets noticably better after that point.
posted by juv3nal at 11:30 PM on May 19


to clarify "killing time until cap 2", I mean significant events in AoS's main plot couldn't really kick off without spoiling events in Cap 2.
posted by juv3nal at 11:33 PM on May 19 [1 favorite]


A space opera that doesn't look like a joyless, ponderous slog? Crazy enough to work.
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:38 PM on May 19 [2 favorites]


Something went right in the marvel system

There is definitely something a bit more systematic about Marvel's approach. I'm actually curious if there's some internal playbook floating around that the producer and/or director reads and follows. I've only managed to figure a little bit of the puzzle in relation to casting:
  • Take a younger male actor that's willing to sign a relatively cheap contract for a multi-picture deal and just get ripped (Chris Pratt, Evans, and Hemsworth).
  • Hire more serious, Oscar-calibre, or well-established older actors as either villains (Benicio Del Toro, Robert Redford, Ben Kingsley, Guy Pearce, Hugo Weaving, Mickey Rourke, Jeff Bridges) or side characters (Glenn Close, Samuel L. Jackson, Don Cheadle, Anthony Hopkins, Tommy Lee Jones)
  • Have at least one young woman that is part of the main hero's inner circle (Zoe Saldana, Gwyneth Paltrow, Natalie Portman, Scarlett Johansson)
This casting is probably designed this way to hit different moviegoer demographics. The interesting part is that Iron Man is the first MCU movie, but also the one that created a couple of exceptions, one big one is RDJ was not a young guy or an unknown at the time of IM1.

Of course, these sorts of casting decisions have been done for many action movies in the past, but I think the creation of the MCU has at least made them cluster closer together and thus easier to notice.
posted by FJT at 12:03 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Tell Me No Lies: I really wish I could remember who made this observation

Seems to be writer Brett White.
DC/WB is all like "Wonder Woman's too confusing for a movie!" and Marvel/Disney is all like "Here's a raccoon with a machine gun"
posted by narain at 12:24 AM on May 20 [5 favorites]


Re: AoS, I believe episode 17 is the place where it started getting watchable (around the last third of the season?)
posted by Sebmojo at 12:34 AM on May 20


I enjoyed the Agent Carter short, and am pleased to hear that Dum Dum Dugan (with just one "g" /spelling-pedant) and Gabe Jones will be part of the series. I like the Agent Carter character and the actress, but they'll need a little bit more material to flesh out the concept as a weekly series, and I sincerely hope that part of that "more" is the Howling Commandos helping her by blowing up stuff, killing Nazis and Hydra agents, etc.

Also, there needs to be at least one scene in which Gabe Jones plays the trumpet. And if some of the other Howlers show up in recurring roles, even better.

Never read the "Guardians for the Galaxy" comic, so my only expectation/hope is for a fun action movie that tells a reasonably coherent & complete story in itself (as opposed to just setting up more sequels, spinoffs, or other films in the series).

AoS did become watchable by the end of season one, but it's still not what I'd call "good," and certainly not on a consistent basis. The improvement was enough, though, to get me to tune in again in the fall, so I guess the jury's still out on that one...
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 12:40 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Every day I scroll through my tumblr backlog while waking up, and every day I keep a little mantra in the back of my head going: i will not get excited about agent carter, i will not get excited about agent carter, i will not get excited about agent carter
posted by Mizu at 1:18 AM on May 20


I don't know if this is canon or fan-canon or what, but isn't there a plot line in the comics where Gabe Jones and Peggy Carter have a romantic relationship?

Because I could totally get behind that.
posted by Katemonkey at 1:18 AM on May 20


My admittedly unfair take on it--

DC: Grr argh we are dark and serious! Watch Superman straight-up snap a dude's neck and be a thinly-veiled Jesus. Also, Batman sounds like he's been gargling sand.

Marvel: Hey, remember movies being fun? Here, have some enjoyable banter and likable characters. Also, RACCOON WITH A MACHINE GUN OOGA CHAKA OOGA OOGA.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:24 AM on May 20 [15 favorites]


It really reminds me of a much more fantastic version of Fifth Element more than anything.

A much more fantastic version of The Fifth Element boggles the mind.
posted by Harald74 at 1:38 AM on May 20 [13 favorites]


Yes, if anything I'll be going in with hopes for a watered down Fifth Element vibe. Not that I want Fifth Element (the best movie everrrr maaaade) to have been watered down, but rather that's as high as my hopes will get.
posted by Mizu at 2:05 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


There is definitely something a bit more systematic about Marvel's approach. I'm actually curious if there's some internal playbook floating around that the producer and/or director reads and follows. I've only managed to figure a little bit of the puzzle in relation to casting:

I'd guess the casting comes down more to Disney than Marvel. Disney has the star making formula down to a science at this point.
posted by empath at 2:13 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I really like Chris Pratt on Parks and Recreation and really hope he was typecasted to basically play that character but in space because that would be fucking great
posted by NoraReed at 2:27 AM on May 20 [7 favorites]


As a fan of the GOTG comics, I was already utterly in the tank for this, but the trailer certainly didn't hurt.

And let me just add to the mix that holy shit, Knowhere (the floating space head) looks great. Now they just need to make sure it's staffed by a bad-ass psychic communist space dog.

The "all heroes come from somewhere" line as they approach it was nicely corny, too.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:29 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]


IS THAT RONAN THE ACCUSER ARE WE GOING TO GET RONAN UP INS AND ALSO MAYBE A PINUP CALENDAR WHERE FOR JULY HE SMILES AT THE CAMERA JUST A BIT AND FOR AUGUST HE SITS IN JUDGEMENT OVER ALL OUR FAILINGS
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:05 AM on May 20 [18 favorites]


YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
posted by Kitteh at 3:46 AM on May 20


Rumor has it that it has started to rise to the occasion following the latest Captain America movie.

It has; strongly. The tie-in with the movie and the complete 180 turn for the series at this point was impressive; it gave you a feeling of being utterly had by the writers and actors, and just waiting for the next shoe to drop.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 3:57 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Lee Pace plays Ronan.
posted by Pendragon at 4:02 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


I really like Chris Pratt on Parks and Recreation and really hope he was typecasted to basically play that character but in space because that would be fucking great

Neither the first nor last time this has been said: BERT MACKLIN, SPACE FBI
posted by zombieflanders at 4:17 AM on May 20 [16 favorites]


My knowledge of the Marvel universe is limited to the films. The Cap 2 bootleg hasn't made it out here yet, so my question is: what was the point of Agent Carter, exactly? Besides wear inch-thick makeup and occasionally vamp it up in a dress, that is. Don't get me wrong, Hayley Atwell is great; I just don't get why people are so worked up over the Agent Carter show.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:23 AM on May 20


Because I like period spy dramas and, considering how expansive the MCU is, I fucking require there to be at least one female-led vehicle in the entire goddamn universe.
posted by dinty_moore at 4:33 AM on May 20 [7 favorites]


Besides wear inch-thick makeup and occasionally vamp it up in a dress, that is.

If this is all you think Agent Carter does, then this is why there needs to be an Agent Carter show.
posted by fight or flight at 4:37 AM on May 20 [15 favorites]


what was the point of Agent Carter, exactly? Besides wear inch-thick makeup and occasionally vamp it up in a dress

There was a one-shot included on the Iron Man 3 DVD/Blu Ray release that did a lot to build interest in the character's life after Cap disappeared. That's pretty much reason the show is happening.
posted by Ipsifendus at 4:49 AM on May 20


Yes. That was indeed Ronan the Accuser. Now we need to get the Thor crossover going on, because HAMMERFIGHT!
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:56 AM on May 20


If any character says "Don't Hurt 'em, Hammer" then I will literally explode.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:00 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Not Thor. Beta Ray Bill.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:00 AM on May 20 [8 favorites]


what was the point of Agent Carter, exactly?

That, if you want to do a period spy drama with the occasional Bondesque bit of supervillainy or superscience/gadgetry, which could be set anywhere from right after WWII to about the mid-sixties (the same time period of the original Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD comic), it doesn't have to star a dude. Which is a great idea and possibly Marvel's way of assuaging people who want a Black Widow movie (which Scarlett Johansen may or may not be up for).
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:04 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]


Dave Bautista was pretty good in The Man With The Iron Fists so as much as I would have loved to see the Rock as Drax I think he will do a decent job of being comically huge.

for a second there i actually THOUGHT drax was being played vin diesel or the rock (i tend to confuse those two large muscled bald hotties with each other) so when i saw the credit of someone i had never heard of i had to take another look!
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 5:33 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


If you want a little preview of the gadgetry in Agent Carter, catch the last couple of episodes of Agents of SHIELD. One agent, Triplett, brings out a bunch of gadgets he inherited from his grandfather, a Howling Commando. They are pretty neat.
posted by oddman at 5:35 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


GotG looks like it takes place in the Fifth Element universe.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:41 AM on May 20


It really reminds me of a much more fantastic version of Fifth Element more than anything. Chris Pratt's Starlord is exactly what I think a young Korben Dallas would be like.

Everybody says fifth element but it I keep seeing Farscape ( this is a good thing)
posted by The Whelk at 5:43 AM on May 20 [8 favorites]


Not being able to fall back on "hey everyone, here's Spider-Man and/or Wolverine again" seems to have been the best thing that could have possibly happened to Marvel, creatively speaking. They're redefining the superhero flick the way they redefined superhero comics in the '60s. I can't remember the last time I was this giddy about a movie. And then...GLENN CLOSE.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:46 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]


Based on a recent tweet by Stern, I am seriously suspicious that they will be acquiring this license to produce a Guardians of the Galaxy pinball machine based off of it. They have snapped up most other Marvel franchises for tables (Iron Man, Avengers, X-Men, Spiderman) but now they'd get to have a much more fun/wacky franchise to play with.
And even if the movie tanks, it'd still be a good pinball machine, as it follows the strong tradition of the 90s of producing a great machine from an abyssmal franchise.

And we all know that a GotG pinball machine would be way better than a fucking Thor one.
posted by Theta States at 5:52 AM on May 20


what was the point of Agent Carter, exactly? Besides wear inch-thick makeup and occasionally vamp it up in a dress, that is.

If Hayley Atwell dressed in 1940s style isn't enough for you, then I humbly suggest that nothing could ever be enough for you.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 6:10 AM on May 20 [6 favorites]


K but seriously I want to know about the CG guy at Marvel who is like 'I went to CalArts and just spent a week animating a racoon touching his dick'
posted by shakespeherian at 6:14 AM on May 20 [7 favorites]


While I'm sure it is the case that Warner Brothers are wary of making a woman-led movie in any case, the issue with Wonder Woman isn't, I'd suggest, mere sexism and excuses for the same, but that the high concept of the character is too complicated. While the Marvel characters can be described fairly simply to people who've never heard of them (Spiderman: Peter Parker becomes a superhero when bitten by a radioactive spider; Iron Man: Playboy millionaire Tony Stark dons a high-tech suit of armour to become Iron Man; Thor: Norse god visits 21st century Earth; The Avengers: All the heroes you already know, together at last) and the DC characters they've had hits with turn out to be not only pretty high-concept but also the superheroes that ordinary people already know (c.f. the floppitude of Green Lantern - however sucky the actual movie is, I'm sure Warner Brothers took note of the fact that the Green Lantern Corps might have taken more than a trailer's worth of explaining. Or might not, but they didn't get the explanation right).

Wonder Woman specifically is almost as high-profile as Superman, but her backstory is a lot more complicated, yet the backstory is enough a part of the character that it would be a significant chunk of the movie. (There's enough of a sense of who the Norse Thunder God might be that the rest of the mythos can be hung on that understanding, but the mythos for Wonder Woman was cut from whole cloth and embroidered with random bits of quasihistory). Or they could go off on a huge tangent with the character and be torn apart for missing the point. Or they could not attempt an explanation at all (which I'd prefer, personally), but that sort of thing is anathema to the kinds of people who make movies. I mean, who is she? What motivates her? You can get along without a clear-cut answer to that question in an ongoing comic book, or a late 70s TV show, but not a move.

The audience comes to the Guardians of the Galaxy trailer with enough of an understanding of mis-matched, motley crews of heroes versus implacable enemies that the fact they've never heard of the characters before isn't a problem. In fact, it probably helps - all the audience really needs to know is "Wacky Fun Here". A character they have heard of, sort of, but aren't that familiar with, and whose U.S.P. is quite difficult to pin down is quite a tricky proposition, and might already have contributed to the woes Green Lantern faced (as well, possibly, as John Carter)

Lesser characters (I'd love to see a Mr Miracle movie, personally) you can twist or gabble or flat-out rewrite the backstory and if the movie works only a small portion of the audience are going to grumble. But Wonder Woman is a part of DC's top-level pantheon. Everyone kind of knows who she is, but how many people know about more than the red-white-and-yellow costume or the magical whip? So there's a lot more for Warner Brothers to lose with a high-profile Wonder Woman flop, quite apart from the fact that there are so many ways to get her wrong. I expect execs and prospective screenwriters look at this particular character and see a can of worms.

They could do a successful adaptation. It's entirely possible to do it. Theoretically it's a tremendous opportunity. On the other hand, I'd agree with Warner Brothers if they thought that they'd make a complete pig's ear of it if they actually tried. They've made a pig's ear of their other prime characters at least once, but those characters had the public recognition to survive it in the long run, and I'm not sure that Wonder Woman does, quite.

Putting her in the new Superman/Batman movie makes some sense, as if it's a hit, the movie-going public will be aware of this particular version and more interested in a Wonder Woman movie.

A sass-talking, gun-toting racoon really requires no explanation. It just is.
posted by Grangousier at 6:15 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I am fully prepared to thoroughly enjoy the first 60 minutes of this and then be bored out of my skull for the next 60 while things blow up with zero plot development, as has been my experience with most MCU movies.
posted by 256 at 6:22 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


I saw a trailer for this when I saw Captain America 2 (which I thought was great) and I'm totally in. Whatever Marvel is doing right I hope they keep doing it.

One thing they are doing that I can tell is their superhero movies interweave in the same way that superhero comics universes do and Agents of Shield maintains the continuity on TV between movies, which may be kind of unprecedented for a universe of this scope. I gave up on AoS after the first 3 episodes but then checked it out again later in the season and now I'm into it.

I guess Guardians of the Galaxy is a different universe from their superhero one but I'd go just to see that raccoon. Also, I like movies that sort of revel in their own goofiness.
posted by lordrunningclam at 6:30 AM on May 20


I guess Guardians of the Galaxy is a different universe from their superhero one

You'd guess wrong.
posted by signal at 6:33 AM on May 20


Anyone who thinks the Wonder Woman origin story is too complicated and difficult to make into a decent flick should run (not walk) and see the fantastic 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie. 75 minutes long, incredibly entertaining, written by Gail Simone and starring Keri Russell as a kickass Wondie. I dare you to tell me that isn't worth watching.
posted by fight or flight at 6:34 AM on May 20 [8 favorites]


I guess Guardians of the Galaxy is a different universe from their superhero one

Nope. The character played by Benicio Del Toro that you can spot for a brief second in this trailer was featured in a post-credits scene in Thor 2, being visited by a delegation from Asgard. He's the Collector, and specifcally seems to be collecting Infinity Stones.
posted by Ipsifendus at 6:41 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: It just is.
posted by stltony at 6:44 AM on May 20


...but that the high concept of the character is too complicated. While the Marvel characters can be described fairly simply to people who've never heard of them...

Amazon-goddess emissary from a magical world that looks like Ancient Greece. Not that hard in the aggregate. The TV show Arrow - rich playboy is changed by traumatic experience, fights corruption - and the Flash preview - Criminologist gets powers after being zapped by lightning in his lab - likewise boil things down to their essence. The rest develops as it can - Diana is closer to these top-echelon heroes than she is to Supes or Bats, who have defining moments everyone knows. Complications to her story can be selectively developed and revealed progressively - but in her essence - Amazon-goddess emissary from a magical world that looks like Ancient Greece - she's fairly easy to capture.
posted by Slap*Happy at 6:49 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I really like the idea that the end game for all the Marvel movies isn't bringing them together into the Avengers-movie universe, or wrapping everybody up and then putting them all into the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, or leading everything into Annihilation.

It's taking all of that and everything else and making a Secret Wars movie, complete with jheri-curled Beyonder.
posted by penduluum at 6:50 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


K but seriously I want to know about the CG guy at Marvel who is like 'I went to CalArts and just spent a week animating a racoon touching his dick'

Probably hasn't stopped going on about it since.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:53 AM on May 20


You'd guess wrong.

Awesome! I totally want to see that raccoon on AoS.
posted by lordrunningclam at 6:53 AM on May 20


I’d really like to know an argument as to how Wonder Woman’s backstory is ‘complicated’ that wouldn’t also apply to Thor. You know, besides the lady thing.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:53 AM on May 20 [19 favorites]


If we're are getting a wall to wall 70s super hits soundtrack ( and I dearly hope we are.) then I want a happy-sad "the team goes THIER separate ways" scene set to Supertramps's Goodbye Stranger.

I also want Queen used in a SPACESHIP BATTLE. Really, it can be any Queen song but SPACESHIP BATTLES.
posted by The Whelk at 7:19 AM on May 20 [5 favorites]




Wonder Woman specifically is almost as high-profile as Superman, but her backstory is a lot more complicated, yet the backstory is enough a part of the character that it would be a significant chunk of the movie. (There's enough of a sense of who the Norse Thunder God might be that the rest of the mythos can be hung on that understanding, but the mythos for Wonder Woman was cut from whole cloth and embroidered with random bits of quasihistory). Or they could go off on a huge tangent with the character and be torn apart for missing the point. Or they could not attempt an explanation at all (which I'd prefer, personally), but that sort of thing is anathema to the kinds of people who make movies. I mean, who is she? What motivates her? You can get along without a clear-cut answer to that question in an ongoing comic book, or a late 70s TV show, but not a move.

BULLSHIIIIIIIIIIT YOU CAN TOO AREGKJRGHADFHSDFH hulk smash

At the very very least that can all be successfully done in an opening credits montage like they did for Watchmen, another movie with a huge backstory that was alluded to before the Main Event. Arguing that a female-led superhero movie won't work for random nitpicky technical reasons is so insulting, oh my god. I appreciate that you want to find something, some kind of explanation, anything, that makes sense but I assure you the sole reason this and other movies are not being made is misogyny, overt and covert. (Not yours, obvsly, as you are not the person or people making the decision to not make these movies.)
posted by elizardbits at 7:25 AM on May 20 [29 favorites]


Rumor has it that it has started to rise to the occasion following the latest Captain America movie.

I've read the recaps. I know the fandom thinks it's that much better, but nothing in the recaps has convinced me the show really has improved. AoS didn't sell me on the catalog models (a friend's term for the non Coulson/May cast) at any point up to the Lorelei episode and the big HYDRA agent reveal and the plots that spring from it didn't pull me back in because I didn't care. Also, I expect the crossover problem (we have a DVD release, so let's plug it with a Very Stupid Special Episode) to be ongoing for them.

We're cord-cutters who buy our shows. I'll probably lay out for Agent Carter because: Hayley Atwell, but I can't imagine wasting any more time & money on AoS. Marvel has the formula for entertaining movies down, but they really missed the boat with AoS.
posted by immlass at 7:25 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Her (Wonder Woman's) origin isn't overly complicated (well, it was very straightforward, she was made from clay by her mom and given life and powers by a set of Greek goddesses. Last I checked (I'm about 10 months behind) DC changed that and made her a daughter of Zeus. Whatever, still not complicated).

However, her back story is a bit more varied. She's had her powers continuously changed and augmented by various God's. She used to be at something like a Captain America level of power and now is at Superman's level. Plus she can talk to animals. She lost her powers for a while in the 70's. She's had a variety of "jobs" and cover stories. etc. She's gone from being a hero at the Flash's level in the Justice League (important but not central) to one of the big three decision makers. Thor has pretty much always been Thor, even when he was sometimes Donald Blake the role (super strong, a bit of a hot head) in the team has never changed. His basic relationships don't ever change. His powers never really change (once in a while he gets the Odin-force).

She has a few recurring villains (Cheetah being the main one, I guess.) but no single nemesis that stands above the rest (as Loki does for Thor) and no one who is as easily recognizable as the Joker or Luthor. And perhaps more importantly, no single iconic story-line or events for writers to adapt.

None of this suggests that they shouldn't make a movie, but it's not quite as simple as saying "She's just a vaguely-Greek Thor."

She has lately been written as an idealistic warrior for peace with one of her more interesting characteristics being that she is absolutely unyielding and ruthless in pursuit of her goals (e.g. she blinded herself to defeat Medusa). In the right hands she is interesting (thought the move to make both Superman and Batman more willing to do "whatever it takes" has stolen some of her thunder in this regard.)
posted by oddman at 7:25 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Wonder Woman's backstory is the easy part. Seriously, in what world is Greek mythology more complicated than exploding superscience planet plus rocketship to Earth plus random farmers plus magical sun powers? It's what you do after she gets to Man's World that's always been the stumbling block. You can't just keep going back to the Olympian well unless you want to do what Azarello and Chiang have done in her new series and just reform the whole story of the character around that saga.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:28 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Oh, speaking of that Ask Chris column:
Seriously: If we have Batman and Detective Comics, and we have Superman and Action Comics, and if they’re really the “Trinity” that DC keeps telling us they are, we should have Wonder Woman and Sensation Comics. That’s not even a question.
Boom.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:30 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


There's also the point that if Hunger Games can be made and succeed, there really is no excuse for thinking that Wonder Woman can't succeed.
posted by oddman at 7:36 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


I mean, Hunger Games even has a Steve Trevor.
posted by oddman at 7:36 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Personally I don't want the current GRIMDARK DC people doing Wonder Woman. She's plenty do-able, but not by these people, not in any shape I'd enjoy as a long-term fan of the character.

(Fantasy 40s crossover: Wonder Woman + Agent Carter.)
posted by immlass at 7:42 AM on May 20 [8 favorites]


Count me among those who are kind of doubtful about whether GotG will be a solid movie, but I really really want it to be a success, because deep in my heart I hope it will pave the way for a Great Lakes Avengers movie. Please. The world needs this.
posted by trunk muffins at 7:44 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Personally I don't want the current GRIMDARK DC people doing Wonder Woman

Oh yeah, no way, absolutely. I can't even imagine how awful it would end up being. I assume they would have someone try to rape her for plot development, because there is obviously no other possible way to show a threat to a woman.
posted by elizardbits at 7:59 AM on May 20 [15 favorites]


I mean, Hunger Games even has a Steve Trevor.

Two of them, even!
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:05 AM on May 20


Constant talk about AoS "getting better" or doing a 180 has become very much like Lucy telling Charlie Brown he should try to kick the football again. The one or two episodes immediately following Winter Soldier were indeed better, but then it went right back down the tubes... because of inexcusably awful writing and bad directing. And I'm not even someone who generally notices directing. I'm not a critic. But wow.

Clark Gregg was standing next to Samuel L. Jackson at the climax of the season and he just looked like he wanted to go home.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:09 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


elizardbits: you joke about a Wonder Woman movie having Rape as integral part of backstory, but the last Superman and upcomming Superman/Batman movies were directed and executive produced by Zack Snyder.(1)

Y'know the man responsible for bringing to the screen 300, Sin City, Watchmen, and Sucker Punch.

Think about the roles/portrayals of women in those films for a second.

Any film project with a female lead involving Snyder is ruined from the get-go IMHO.





(1) and yes I know that no blockbuster film is made by a single human being, but somesome steers the ship, and shapes the project.
posted by Faintdreams at 8:16 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


fight or flight is correct, the Wonder Woman animated movie was very well done. It's yet another instance where the people responsible for animated DC seem to understand their characters better than the people doing their live-action movies.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:17 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Constant talk about AoS "getting better" or doing a 180 has become very much like Lucy telling Charlie Brown he should try to kick the football again.

That was my experience through the whole season. The Lorelei episode was just awful and it sealed the deal on "why am I wasting time on this show?" (And since we're talking about rape: one of the things that finished me on it in that episode was the unacknowledged rape of a character, which was totally ignored because he was a man. But he was under a magical influence and unable to consent, so, sorry, it was rape. NOT COOL, MARVEL.)
posted by immlass at 8:20 AM on May 20 [5 favorites]


Even if Agent Carter is as snooze worthy as AoS it will be immensely better cause I can just tune out the plot and focus on peroid outfits ( and deliver annoying rants on how everyone's tie is too damn long, or women's hair are not complicated enough.)
posted by The Whelk at 8:25 AM on May 20


She has a few recurring villains (Cheetah being the main one, I guess.) but no single nemesis that stands above the rest (as Loki does for Thor) and no one who is as easily recognizable as the Joker or Luthor

Gail Simone's version of Giganta would work really well here - immensely intelligent and ruthless mad scientist swaps her mind into a massively powerful entity, and uses her new powers for the gratification of her vengeful, destructive and sadistic urges, and to acquire more power: physical, economic and otherwise. (Notably, she traded in her stolen body's usual leopard-skin bikini for a bullet-proof armored jumpsuit of her own design. These things happen when a woman writes about characters who are women.)

Lex Luthor meets the Joker meet the Hulk (she is the stuff city-leveling climactic battles are made of!) Yet for all that, she's still got her foibles, fallibilities and insecurities - you hate her, but you can root for her enough to make it interesting.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:26 AM on May 20


For a Wonder Woman villain, Ares just seems like a slam dunk to me. He's the male god of war who uses his might to destroy; Wonder Woman is a female Amazon who uses her might to protect. That's the kind of two-sides-of-the-same-coin antagonist that audiences love.

And ultimately, it's not like a well-known villain is crucial to a film's success. Everyone knows Batman and the Joker, but I doubt a shitload of filmgoers had any idea who Obadiah Stane was when they went to see Iron Man; what mattered was that the character was written well, and played well on the screen. I know I've said this before, but what works about the MCU movies is that they're well-crafted and they're fun. I have no faith that Zack Snyder is capable of making a fun movie these days.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:34 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]


The Lorelei episode was just awful and it sealed the deal on "why am I wasting time on this show?"

My biggest problem with AoS is the writing, and the biggest aspect of that is the utter lack of any semblance of a moral compass. Lorelei magic-raping Ward was a huge red flag, but there were others from the very start. I haven't seen a single "interrogation" scene that did not involve physical violence. Even in the last episode, Coulson and May (COULSON!!!) spoke openly and casually about torture. And that would be ugly but at least internally consistent in a show that was about moral ambiguity...

...but AoS isn't that. The writers clearly think the agents are the good guys. It's not deliberate horror. It's bad writing, and that's much worse.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:50 AM on May 20 [5 favorites]


I'd just like to note that this thread has one of the greatest titles I've ever read.

Metafilter: The Racoon Not Only Talks, He Also Adjusts Himself
posted by Aizkolari at 8:56 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


She has a few recurring villains (Cheetah being the main one, I guess.) but no single nemesis that stands above the rest (as Loki does for Thor) and no one who is as easily recognizable as the Joker or Luthor

Sounds like a good opportunity for creators to make a new and iconic villain.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:57 AM on May 20


Lex Luthor meets the Joker meet the Hulk (she is the stuff city-leveling climactic battles are made of!) Yet for all that, she's still got her foibles, fallibilities and insecurities - you hate her, but you can root for her enough to make it interesting.

Plus for all the superhero movies we've had recently, I can't think of a one where the hero fights a skyscraper-size monster. This despite two blockbuster kaiju movies in the last year.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:57 AM on May 20


Even if Agent Carter is as snooze worthy as AoS it will be immensely better cause I can just tune out the plot and focus on peroid outfits

Also iirc the show has a lady showrunner and writers? Which in of itself will make me watch it no matter how terrible or uninteresting.
posted by elizardbits at 9:01 AM on May 20


On Aug. 1, we are all Groot.
posted by sparkletone at 9:02 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Agent Carter will be run by the people who ran Reaper, and Jose Molina (who wrote for Sleepy Hollow and (co)wrote Ariel and Trash for Firefly) has signed on.

The pilot is by the guys who wrote the cap movies, so I'm feeling pretty good there, too.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:04 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


And the people who ran Reaper are indeed ladies, yes (whose names I can't remember off the top of my head, and I feel bad about).
posted by dinty_moore at 9:05 AM on May 20


I hope it will pave the way for a Great Lakes Avengers movie. Please. The world needs this.

The thing is, the GLA roster is made up almost completely of mutants. And I was under the impression that through its old X-men contract, Fox owns the screen rights to all Marvel mutants, excepting a few edge cases like Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. That's why Fox has, e.g., the Deadpool rights. (Or am I wrong about the rights?)
posted by Iridic at 9:09 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Or am I wrong about the rights?

Nope. Here's an infographic that explains who owns what. IIRC, Fox also own the rights to the concept of "mutants" (as well as Skrulls, which is why we got the Chitauri in Avengers).

The fact that we will probably never see an Avengers movie with Peter Parker cracking wise with Luke Cage and Jean Grey is one of the only things which will drive me into a loud public ranting fit. It's not pretty.
posted by fight or flight at 9:15 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I don't know, I got a whiff of Super Mario Brothers, especially from the bit with Glenn Close.

So, Slither isn't the greatest movie ever made, but it succeeds on pretty much all the levels it's trying to. I refuse to believe that the guy who wrote and directed that movie who co-wrote directed Guardians could make anything as terrible as the Mario Bros. movie at all ever. Not even parasitic brain slugs or a full frontal lobotomy could cause that.
posted by sparkletone at 9:16 AM on May 20


Let's be fair, I would also totally be down for a Squirrel Girl movie. They can just blame her powers on something other than mutants.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:17 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Wonder Woman in the current DC Movie Universe needs to be the antidote to their Superman: even with his insane power levels he's willing to compromise to win. She should absolutely not be. Basically flip their (generally consistent) pre-New 52 stances on ethical dilemmas from the comics. Gives her movies much higher stakes and she can take Superman's position as the one who actually inspires and fights for the little people. They need a character who isn't so morally grey because their movie universe is shaping up to be drab and dour, and they also need someone who can do the small-scale stuff in addition to the big world ending threats. Think Golden Age Superman, who fights huge otherworldly threats one minute and everyday corruption and discrimination the next. That plus Xena plus Cap.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:24 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


Wonder Woman specifically is almost as high-profile as Superman

The thing that must really sting the executives behind this decision is that they had Joss Whedon READY TO GO with a script and everything. Super excited about making a Wonder Woman movie... And they passed. A couple years later: He does Avengers and turns in ONE BILLION DOLLARS just on the box office run alone, never mind what crazy amount of money that thing must've made by now in rentals and what not.
posted by sparkletone at 9:26 AM on May 20 [7 favorites]


I haven't seen a single "interrogation" scene that did not involve physical violence.

Yeah, that too. Lorelei was the point where I said "the writers don't get it" but there were problems all along. Now maybe that's supposed to be the HYDRA infestation, but the recaps I read of the later episodes don't make me think that the show changed on the question of telling us our guys are heroes and showing us they're not particularly ethical in their pursuit of whatever. The whole Tahiti storyline was another example of tell us they're heroic but show us they're not.

If Agent Carter goes the same way, I'll be heartbroken. And there has to be some of that in SHIELD, in terms of the Operation Paperclip stuff, or we can't get to where we are in modern continuity. The question for me is whether they grey up Peggy herself unintentionally.
posted by immlass at 9:28 AM on May 20


Oh god, I just realized what Howard Stark being in this series means.

Peggy gets to be the machine gun-firing, jumping out of airplanes Indiana Jones On A Mission To Save The World and Howard is the cocktail swilling, silk-robe wearing pretty boy quasi-love interest who comes up with little gadgets she can use.
posted by The Whelk at 9:33 AM on May 20 [14 favorites]


one big one is RDJ was not a young guy or an unknown at the time of IM1.

He was actually a huge gamble for them when they did this regardless of how perfect he turned out to be for the role. He was literally unhireable. Like. There were movies that wanted to cast him where they couldn't get bonding insurance because of his involvement thanks to his history of substance abuse. Iron Man saved his career in a huuuuuge way.

(I'm kind of glad because he literally is Tony Stark and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is one of my favorite movies, but feel kind of weird about it because RDJ is famously an A-grade Republican asshole.)
posted by sparkletone at 9:34 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Jason_steakums, it occurs to me that you've basically just described the New 52 Wonder Woman. Utterly uncompromising to the point of continuing the good fight when she knows she can't win. Competent to the point that she is perfectly willing to outsmart enemies when she can't physically defeat them. *And* compassionate and caring: an opening storyline in her new series revolves around saving an innocent child from being killed by capricious Gods.
posted by oddman at 9:37 AM on May 20


The Lorelai episode was just dumb. The premise was badly thought out (the rape and the heteronormativity and gender essentialism), the characters made unspeakably bad choices (like, seriously, if the kids from Misfits are able to think around the problem, I would want super spies to think around it), and it made me regret watching something with Sif in it.

Do you have any idea how bad something has to be before I regret watching something with Sif in it?

My wish for Agents of Shield was closer to Angel: Season Six (or Marvel's Better off Ted). Less of a superhero movie, more about people trying to do good in a system that compels them to abuse their power. I'm okay with Shield being amoral (though I wish the narrative treated Shield as amoral more often), because hey, it's Shield. Their place is to be the grunts, do the dirty work, and have far more power than they should have.

Also, more corporate banality and jokes about random monsters eating toner.

I'm a couple episodes behind, but maybe next season they'll retool? Whether or not I watch next season depends on those episodes, I guess.
posted by dinty_moore at 9:50 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


I was under the impression that through its old X-men contract, Fox owns the screen rights to all Marvel mutants, excepting a few edge cases like Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch

Shh, quiet, I'm trying to live in an alternate better reality
posted by trunk muffins at 10:05 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I briefly considered going back to AoS after Cap 2, but the recaps made me think they were the same character based morality where it was all "yay torture! yay abuse of authority!", even if they finally got rid of the dullest characters and brought in more interesting and diverse ones.

But it was never going to be much of a series for me, I suspect, because I never liked Coulson and his smug authoritarism.
posted by tavella at 10:05 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I'm hoping that AoS becomes a light-hearted version of Planetary - go out and discover the weirdness of the Marvel Universe. One thing that struck me about the show was how reactive they were (something happens in a movie, we react to it) as opposed to actually going out to see what they could see. Hopefully the direction for the new season will encourage them to GO OUT AND DO STUFF rather than flail around and react to OTHER PEOPLE'S STUFF.

(Also, my now ancient and out of date Wonder Woman reboots.)
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:06 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Let's be fair, I would also totally be down for a Squirrel Girl movie. They can just blame her powers on something other than mutants.

Tippytoe and Monkey Joe were ordinary squirrels, until one day, they were bitten by a radioactive human! These squirrels were given the powers and abilities of a human - they are now able to understand speech, operate complex technical equipment, and can spend five minutes staring at a something in the supermarket trying to decide if they really need it or if they just want it because the packaging is nice. Together with their plucky human sidekick, Squirrel Girl, they bring justice to the cosmos!
posted by Slap*Happy at 10:10 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]


RDJ is famously an A-grade Republican asshole.

I did not know this and it makes me sad.

On the other hand, it kind of makes Civil War make even more sense, in that RDJ is our alternate universe Tony Stark kind of way.
posted by dogheart at 10:12 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I was under the impression that through its old X-men contract, Fox owns the screen rights to all Marvel mutants, excepting a few edge cases like Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch

The specific terms are that Fox owns the X-Men and "any character in the marvel universe that is born with supernatural powers." Which hahahahaha. They're getting around it by saying that the edge case characters were made by SCIENCE in the movies it seems.
posted by sparkletone at 10:16 AM on May 20


Hence the resurgence of Terrigen Mists in the current comics.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:21 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Hence the resurgence of Terrigen Mists in the current comics.

OMG we can totally have a Kamala Khan movie (okay, maybe we should have an entire Kamala Khan arc in the comics first, but whatever. I'd watch it).
posted by dinty_moore at 10:24 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


I am all about looping Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into the Inhumans if it means we get the actual Inhumans too.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:27 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Jumping back to the Fifth Element love ... Luc Besson's Les Aventures extraordinaires d'Adèle Blanc-Sec is finally on Netflix (or at least, I finally found it), and is another great way to adapt a graphic novel character. No back story, less explosions, more pterodactyls. Not everything needs to follow the Marvel/DC format!
posted by kanewai at 10:29 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


I am all about looping Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into the Inhumans if it means we get the actual Inhumans too.

Cast Vin Diesel as Black Bolt.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:33 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Spirit in the Sky? Really?

That song has been used ironically in movies and tv for waaay too long. This looks cute, but meh. Plus I think I saw most of the movie in that trailer.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:33 AM on May 20


I think that, if she's not locked into a contract to play Kitty Pryde forever, Ellen Page would make a great Squirrel Girl; ditto for Hannah Murray, aka Gilly from Game of Thrones.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:34 AM on May 20


It's taking all of that and everything else and making a Secret Wars movie, complete with jheri-curled Beyonder.

It's Disney snapping up more IPs and making a live-action Marvel vs. Capcom movie.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:35 AM on May 20


Agents of SHIELD has a tone problem, even more so now post-Cap 2. The first 5 or so episodes had a real Saturday afternoon syndicated television feel to me, which isn't a bad thing, I loved Saturday afternoon syndicated TV! But AoS has veered wildly between that fun, family-friendly tone, and attempting something more serious like Cap 2, and it was jarring and didn't work.

It improved enough post-Cap 2 to make me more likely to watch it then when I bailed around episode 10, but it's still not exactly good. I didn't want AoS to be grimdark or anything, but especially after The Winter Soldier, I wanted it to substantively engage with how SHIELD were not unambiguously good and how there was good reason Captain America wanted it burned to the ground. Coulson and his team were engaging in all kinds of sketchy shenanigans, but the finale pulled back from engaging with that at all.

It makes me a bit concerned for Agent Carter, because while I think it could handle a lighter tone, I don't want it to feel as uncentered and directionless and AoS does.
posted by yasaman at 10:35 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


I am all about looping Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch into the Inhumans if it means we get the actual Inhumans too.

Some stuff in Agents of SHIELD, especially toward the end, really makes it seem like they're setting up the Inhumans to sort of fill in the role that the X-Men take in the comic universe. At least, that was my reading.

Also, for people who are wondering if AoS got better but haven't gone back to check yet: It did not. I watched the whole thing, and it did not.


Coulson and his team were engaging in all kinds of sketchy shenanigans, but the finale pulled back from engaging with that at all.

And in fact it kind of reinforced a lot of my problems with the show, especially when it presented the future gratuitous torture of a character as something of a "huzzah!" moment. I don't really have a problem with morally grey characters abusing their authority or even just turning into something awful because of the influence of said authority, but the work needs to acknowledge that it's happening. As it is, it just seems like the showrunners are in favor of torture.
posted by IAmUnaware at 10:40 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Is anyone else getting a Pacific Rim vibe out of this project? When did awesome fun and colorful aesthetics (see this review of the poster) become such a scarce commodity in today's po-faced, epic gritty reboot realism-obsessed Hollywood?

May this be the rebirth of pulpy serial adventures. Let this film show the new Star Wars how it's done.
posted by Apocryphon at 10:44 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Hannah Murray would be ridiculously perfect as Squirrel Girl. You don't even have to do anything to her teeth, just have her hold that quarter-smile most of the time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 10:51 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Hannah Murray would be ridiculously perfect as Squirrel Girl. You don't even have to do anything to her teeth, just have her hold that quarter-smile most of the time.

Oh, wow...
posted by zombieflanders at 10:56 AM on May 20 [2 favorites]


Agents of SHIELD has a tone problem

You know, I have to agree. While the show isn't nearly as good as I'd hoped it would be, I also haven't felt like it was as bad as some people thought it was. BUT:

My one real complaint is, boy oh boy, with the torture and the visibly exposed brains and the gutshots and the stabbings and the burnings.

It doesn't make any sense to me that the theatrical released, PG-13 "Thor: The Dark World" and "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" both gave me less me reasons to be worried about my daughter watching than the prime time ABC series. I really want to see them turn this show around, and while I keep hearing that has happened, I haven't yet seen any of the post-Winter Soldier episodes. I think the one with Sif is the next in our pipeline.

You'd think, or at least, I would think, that if you're making a show set in a universe with all kinds of weird aliens and mythological creatures, you'd find something better for your makeup artists to work on than wound effects.
posted by Ipsifendus at 10:56 AM on May 20


My one real complaint is, boy oh boy, with the torture and the visibly exposed brains and the gutshots and the stabbings and the burnings.

But it's not even just the gratuitous violence! It's the apparent inability to engage with that violence and horror. Captain America 2 did a way better job with this when it took, what, two minutes? to get across the complete horror and wrongness of what was done to Bucky Barnes to create the Winter Soldier, and to make clear that Project Insight was wrong even when SHIELD thought it was in charge. Agents of SHIELD, meanwhile, seems strangely blithe and uncaring about Mike Peterson/Deathlok and all those other poor bastards who were turned into remote control soldiers, while seemingly trying to engender some sympathy or tease a redemption for literal Nazi Grant Ward. I don't get it.
posted by yasaman at 11:12 AM on May 20 [7 favorites]


The question for me is whether they grey up Peggy herself unintentionally.

Peggy has a bit of a temper in that she's willing to fire a pistol at a guy hiding by an untested shield in a room full of people who could be hit by a ricochet.

Also I imagine her love life would be emotionally complicated.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:13 AM on May 20


When did awesome fun and colorful aesthetics (see this review of the poster) become such a scarce commodity in today's po-faced, epic gritty reboot realism-obsessed Hollywood?

I'm pretty sure it started with The Matrix, which wasn't a reboot but was still Darker And Edgier than most mainstream fare.

Breaking loose of that was one of the things that made Iron Man such a breath of fresh air.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:18 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Agents of SHIELD also doesn't care about SHIELD agents just trying to do their job. They kill at least 2 people for that miracle cure. This is never addressed, because the world revolves around people Coulson knows personally.
posted by squinty at 11:22 AM on May 20 [3 favorites]


Yeah, squinty, that bugged me too.
posted by Ipsifendus at 11:25 AM on May 20


I was bummed that the first Captain America movie fast-forwarded right into the present day at the end so I'm excited that Agent Carter will revisit the WWII setting.
posted by octothorpe at 11:28 AM on May 20


I just had something terrible occur to me about the Lorelai rape thing. Now that we know Ward is an evil double agent who was just sleeping with May to lull her into thinking he's a good guy...well, maybe it wasn't so much of a case of rape/forcing him away from a girlfriend so much as he was or would have been just fine with sleeping with her regardless of hormonal influences, because he's evil.

Oh hell, I don't know any more.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:04 PM on May 20




Peggy has a bit of a temper in that she's willing to fire a pistol at a guy hiding by an untested shield in a room full of people who could be hit by a ricochet.

I can deal with temper. If they show her torturing people and not caring, I'm going to turn it off (and complain on FanFare).

maybe it wasn't so much of a case of rape

It was rape because he was under an outside influence (just like if he'd been drugged) and Lorelei had sex with him. If it had been the other way around--a man using his power to get into Skye's pants--people would have identified it a lot more clearly. The fact that Ward turned out to be the HYDRA plant had nothing to do with whether or not Lorelei raped him.
posted by immlass at 1:55 PM on May 20 [3 favorites]


Huh, there's a Sakaaran in the trailer? I don't know why I hadn't thought of this, but Planet Hulk would be a great Hulk movie for phase 3 or 4! It's hard to come up with a good self-contained Hulk plot, but Planet Hulk is right on the money, and it would let one of the Avengers have an individual movie that crosses over with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Maybe I hadn't thought of it because Disney doesn't have the rights to Reed Richards, who is an important Illuminati member. But you could just make it Tony Stark's idea to blast the Hulk into space at the end of Avengers 2 or 3. And then after Planet Hulk, release a World War Hulk movie that is basically just Iron Man vs. The Hulk. They haven't done any team-up movies focussing on two heroes, and this could be a natural way to lead to a twofer, which is a comic book staple.
posted by painquale at 3:47 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Anyone who thinks the Wonder Woman origin story is too complicated and difficult to make into a decent flick should run (not walk) and see the fantastic 2009 animated Wonder Woman movie. 75 minutes long, incredibly entertaining, written by Gail Simone and starring Keri Russell as a kickass Wondie. I dare you to tell me that isn't worth watching.

It also contains one of my favorite Wonder Woman moments.
posted by The Tensor at 4:01 PM on May 20


My wish for Agents of Shield was closer to Angel: Season Six (or Marvel's Better off Ted).

I was hoping for Warehouse 13 with a budget. Alas.
posted by Zozo at 5:38 PM on May 20


I didn't get a Fifth Element vibe from the trailer so much as the big budget US version of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, which was fun, didn't take itself too seriously, and I liked more than I didn't (even if it wasn't the BEST EVER adaptation of the material)

Color me cautiously optimistic.
posted by elr at 6:06 PM on May 20


I think when people talk about WW's background being complicated they really mean the polyamory bondage stuff.
posted by bq at 7:29 PM on May 20


After reading this, I'm really wondering why some of y'alls totally valid issues never occurred to me. Especially since I was disgusted with 24 nearly from the beginning from all the torture nonsense, and not only refused to watch it, but would rarely shut up about how awful it was when it came up.

I think I have an understanding of why it's ok for me, which I feel like sharing, but I am in no way trying to convince those of you that find it problematic not to.

I guess I see a sort of split world that is echoed in the show - 24 was trying very much to act like it was "real" (as real as a world where one can get clear across LA county in 20 minutes but whatever). AoS, while certainly having metaphorical content applicable to the real world, certainly is not.

And within that, all of the AoS torture stuff occurs around people that are existing in the "super" side of the world. Sure, they don't really have "powers", but they're demonstrably not working by the same rules as everyone else. And then the "heroes" treat them so. There's definitely a thread there - there's a bit in Winter Soldier where it's mentioned that Fury got where he did because he was wiling to "do anything".

But I can't say that I like perpetuating the myth that torture is a morally difficult thing that works, because it's not, it's just a shitty thing.

The rape stuff from Lorelei I have no defense for.

But I did genuinely enjoy the crap out of the post Winter Soldier episodes. Then again, I always enjoyed the show at least a bit, so I'm an outlier anyway. But I've got at least one friend who went from "do not like" to "OOH YAY" on that boundary, so it's not like it doesn't exist. For some people, it got better. For others, the parts that made them not like the show weren't affected.
posted by flaterik at 7:35 PM on May 20 [1 favorite]


Know what always bugged me when I was a kid? DC editorial always made super sure to make the following point really clear every time they talked about Wonder Woman to the press: "Diana is super powerful, she's so very powerful and you should read her comic - in our universe, Diana is the second most powerful superhero because Superman is stronger. Don't worry you guys, we decided officially that Superman is definitely stronger than Wonder Woman, make sure you print that."
posted by EatTheWeak at 9:28 PM on May 20


Are there any other news reports to support Stark, Dugan and Jones being in the show? I am super stoked if they are confirmed but the link in the FPP only mentions CBR as a source, and the only mention on CBR's site is this list of characters they would like to see which doesn't say any of them are confirmed yet.
posted by penguinliz at 8:07 AM on May 21


The rape stuff from Lorelei I have no defense for.

A number of people I've discussed this with didn't see it until somebody walked them through it, and it's pretty clear the writers didn't think about it. I wouldn't feel too bad about missing it in your shoes. Also, as someone said upthread, the whole episode was all "boys are like THIS and girls are like THAT" and generally gross and it made me sad that the awesomeness of Sif was wasted in it.

My feeling about the torture and beatings kinds of things is that the series could have gone a lot of interesting places with it, given the SHIELD/HYDRA dynamics, but nothing about the writing before the break nor anything in the recaps makes me think they did or will. And once they put "hey, a bunch of us were HYDRA" on the table, it's hard (for me) not to reconsider every instance of people going over the line.

For those who enjoyed it, and I know a lot of people did, more power to you! But the things I disliked about it worry me for future Marvel TV (Agent Carter and the Netflix shows).
posted by immlass at 8:08 AM on May 21


A number of people I've discussed this with didn't see it until somebody walked them through it, and it's pretty clear the writers didn't think about it.

It was weird because on the one hand it seemed like it was completely about that (May even blames the victim) and on the other hand it was completely dropped. I have to think this was the writers' room equivalent of a sloppy edit.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:43 AM on May 21


I'm rewatching Agents of SHIELD to take another crack at it since I didn't make it too far my first time, and it does seem to hold up a bit better on a second watch with expectations adjusted - less disappointing, and more just middling. I'm enjoying the early episodes of AoS more than the early episodes of Arrow, at any rate, but that's not high praise (though apparently that show got better, too?).
posted by jason_steakums at 8:23 PM on May 21


I'll be watching this for Peter Serafinowicz.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:41 PM on May 21






Won't be nothing without Matt Berry as Stephen Strange.

"The Dread DOR-MAM-MU!!"
posted by Grangousier at 5:14 PM on June 4






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