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Point/Counterpoint
May 28, 2014 1:32 PM   Subscribe


 
Also.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 1:45 PM on May 28 [5 favorites]


Everybody should read that first one. I mean everybody. It's good advice for anyone in a band.
posted by lumpenprole at 1:53 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]


I could pull quotes from the counterpoint all day, but instead I'll just quote the original reason for coming into the thread to comment, which has been usurped by The Hamms Bear mentioning it first:

DONT PEGGY OLSEN ME, MOTHERFUCKERS.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:55 PM on May 28 [7 favorites]


For the love of Christ, do not waste your time with the linked article about being the only dude in a band.
posted by Shepherd at 1:58 PM on May 28


If you ask, “Does this make me look fat?” don’t be mad if they say, “Actually, it kind of does.” It’s a quality that is pretty respectable. Besides, would you want to get on stage wearing something that looks terrible?

Yes.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:09 PM on May 28


Oh, Neko Case, how I adore you!
posted by rtha at 2:32 PM on May 28 [1 favorite]


If I were an ironic dude in his 20s, I'd think really hard about maybe getting a t-shirt that said "GET WITH THE NOW, PUSSY-SHAVERS!".
posted by benito.strauss at 2:38 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]


The first one seems like a bit of a "chill girl manual."
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:50 PM on May 28 [6 favorites]


Women like that used to be called "unladylike," now I guess it's "cool girl" or "chill girl," but they are still to be chastised, that's for sure.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 3:08 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]


Some people, women, are article one, some are article two. I always feel that there is more mix between the types.

The idea of a chill woman just calls into mind how society and young people prize either not caring or giving a huge fuck. Really isn't it more context sensitive?
posted by Braeburn at 3:28 PM on May 28 [2 favorites]


Different strokes, and all that.
posted by Decani at 3:38 PM on May 28


remember to bring a spare van
posted by thelonius at 3:50 PM on May 28


The second article's fantastic--lots of good points. Thanks for posting this.
posted by The Minotaur at 4:18 PM on May 28


That first piece is a great mix of "Tips for being the only girl in the band", "Tips for being in a band", and "Tips for being a decent member of any collaborative project." Good advice all around.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 4:20 PM on May 28


God i can't believe how satisfying the rebuttal was to read, after seeing how the music community and several scenes handle women participating.

And I get that the Noisey article is suppose to be lighthearted. I'm not saying we shouldn't laugh, because of course we should sometimes. What I am saying is that I am disappointed with an article that could have really brought a lot of crucial aspects of being a woman in a band to light.

And yea, this highlights the real problem here. Vice didn't want that article, and a lot of people would have rolled their eyes and closed it because it would be too tumblry or dreary or whatever.

A lot of people desperately want to see it the first articles way, as not a big deal and not having any real problems that require real thought to resolve. It got published not just because of it's tone, but because it was in the end saying what a lot of people wanted to hear. It's somewhere on the spectrum between comfort food and junk food as far as thought and introspection go, and in the end that's what a lot of people want.

The whole thing is dongs all the way down, basically no matter what 'scene' you look in. And a lot of people take actions that keep it a dongfest. Articles like #1 basically fall in to the category of "if you're not speaking out against it, you're implicitly for it".
posted by emptythought at 4:21 PM on May 28 [4 favorites]


From the second piece:

I've been groped by guys at shows I've played and attended, countless times I've been patronised by men in other bands regarding my musical ability, and one time a sound guy at a venue patted me on the head after (needlessly) explaining to me what feedback is.

Holy shit, if anything deserved a crotch kick, that would be it.
posted by emjaybee at 5:20 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]


Where's "Write a glib article that pisses off a lot of people (and not only because punk is so self-serious) so that women will respond and you'll get to find a lot of cool bands that look interesting"?
posted by klangklangston at 5:36 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]


"How to survive being the only woman in a band of decent-but-not-particularly-progressive guys" versus "How to survive being the only woman in a band of decent-and-progressive guys".

It's not even point and counterpoint, it's point and equally valid but different point.
posted by Bugbread at 5:40 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]


Neko Case's response made me laugh out loud so hard when I read it. Oh Playboy, you sound so...prim. P.S. Maybe check out the Twitter of the person you're interviewing because it might'a given you some insight as to what you were dealing with. <3 Neko owning her attitude.

I kinda liked the first article more than the rebuttals, and I feel a little weirdly disloyal saying that.

A lot of the rebuttals raised great points and inspired some good insight. I think picking apart arguments is important, and "I agree but hate the way you said it" is a completely valid criticism as are other criticisms.

But I have to say that I wound up a little unexpectedly touchy about the way rebuttals were framed which, to me, with the way they were compiled and presented, seemed to be putting forth a "I'm not disrespecting her I'm just disrespecting her" thing.
posted by desuetude at 11:40 PM on May 28 [1 favorite]


Those fat fingered bullies were no match for him. Next time they should deal with him directly.
posted by Poldo at 6:18 AM on May 29


The band I was in was started by 'the' girl. She was 17. And she picked all the guy members. I was the singer and her boyfriend. She knew what she wanted the band to be musically and conceptually. She knew what everybody did best. Mostly she was quiet until she really hated something...then everyone knew. "No one sleeps while she's awake" best time of our lives thanks to her...
posted by judson at 9:23 AM on May 29


Re-reading the first piece, tip #2 is the one that I really wish could be tattooed on the hand of everyone in a band, or any kind of collaborative endeavor. I've seen so often a member who isn't muscular enough to carry the amps, or organized enough to work the merch table, or computer-savvy enough to fill in the Excel sheets, or whatever, proceed to get ashamed about their inability, then angry at anyone who notices, and then sink into a dynamic of trying, failing, and being pissed off at everyone. And everyone being pissed off at them because they're not doing their part.

It's just so, so much more useful to say "Hey, I'm really not good at X, so could you pick up my share of X and I'll take your share of Y?"
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 10:24 AM on May 29


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