no other art form does this

June 20, 2014 12:14 PM

What is unique about pro wrestling is this: it is the only creative endeavor where the audience affects the work in real time. A long time ago some smart aleck described pro wrestling as “a LARP where the wrestlers are playing athletes and the audience is playing the audience, and everybody’s in on it.” And that’s exactly true. Now, of course, pro wrestling is still a scripted affair and on a case-by-case basis the audience doesn’t usually change the outcome of a story as it happens – [...] But it’s more than just simply cheering for the guys you like and booing the guys you hate; the crowd is an integral part of wrestling now.

Christopher Bird (aka the Mighty mightygodking) explains why wrestling is the one true performance art.
posted by MartinWisse (56 comments total)

What about improv?
posted by JHarris at 12:18 PM on June 20, 2014 [7 favorites]

this is probably what Andy Kaufman saw in it
posted by thelonius at 12:19 PM on June 20, 2014 [11 favorites]

When's the MiFi meetup knockdown?
posted by sammyo at 12:21 PM on June 20, 2014

I had a theatre history prof who did a whole thing about how pro wrestling was a direct descendant of Commedia del'Arte-- someone at MIT agrees.
posted by Erasmouse at 12:27 PM on June 20, 2014 [5 favorites]

Barton Fink pegged exactly where "pro" wrestling stands as an art form: "This is a wrestling picture; the audience wants to see action, drama, wrestling, and plenty of it. They don't wanna see a guy wrestling with his soul – well, all right, a little bit, for the critics – but you make it the carrot that wags the dog. Too much of it and they head for exits and I don't blame 'em. There's plenty of poetry right inside that ring, Fink. Look at "Hell Ten Feet Square". {...} Look at "Blood, Sweat, and Canvas". These are big movies, Fink. About big men, in tights—both physically and mentally. But especially physically."

The difference between such steroid-enhanced pantomimes and true performance art like Dada, Situationism, Fluxus, or even Improv Everywhere is that the practitioners of the latter don't die young after suffering job-related chronic traumatic encephalopathy.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:35 PM on June 20, 2014 [3 favorites]

Was I just quoted? Am I the smart aleck? Huh.

This article is dead-on. The audience is part of the show. The audience literally can save careers or crush them. The audience _literally_ calls the shots... it is just a matter of when.

Of course, when you don't manage that correctly, you get the TNA Heel Section of 2003. And if you don't live up to that contract, you get the botched ending to the Crow Sting storyline of 1997.

The only thing close to wrestling is larping, in that the audience is also the actors. I can't ever step between the ropes again, but I can still swing the boffer sword.
posted by andreaazure at 12:36 PM on June 20, 2014 [2 favorites]

It's a badly acted play with lots of fight scenes and a really rowdy audience.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:36 PM on June 20, 2014

I think the idea of pro wrestling is hella cool, but almost every time I try to actually watch a wrestling I either get bored or super angry at a bunch of -ist stuff that goes on.

that said ophidian portal has my heart 5ever
posted by beefetish at 12:40 PM on June 20, 2014 [4 favorites]

I love pro wrestling, for exactly this reason, but I have to admit that right now I'm really, really down on it. The WWE product, certainly, is really disappointing. Every time I think it's going to be okay, there's some heinous sexist or racist or homophobic nonsense that just shatters it for me.

Also I'm bummed that Chikara aren't putting on a show in my backyard every weekend.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:46 PM on June 20, 2014 [3 favorites]

aaaaaaa

that entrance is wicked cool

aaaaaaa
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:47 PM on June 20, 2014

The difference between such steroid-enhanced pantomimes and true performance art like Dada, Situationism, Fluxus, or even Improv Everywhere is

that the former is exciting in itself and the latter has all the excitement in the blether written about it?
posted by MartinWisse at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2014 [3 favorites]

Kdramas tho
posted by subdee at 1:01 PM on June 20, 2014

it is the only creative endeavor where the audience affects the work in real time

um... not even close
posted by thetruthisjustalie at 1:11 PM on June 20, 2014 [8 favorites]

Bray Wyatt is such a good character. Leaps and bounds above most others right now. The cellphone fireflies thing blew me away the first time I noticed it, and I'm really glad to hear it truly was a fan invention. Similarly, Daniel Bryan's YES! was never intended to be the fan chant it turned into - the fans just picked up the "Yes" he was saying to psych himself up during matches. Now the audience uses "Yes" (and "No") chants all the time throughout lots of matches - it's part of wrestling lexicon.

I struggle with the issues that WWE has sometimes; much like being a fan of comics or movies or, honestly, almost any popular culture nowadays, you have to take the good with the racist, sexist, homophobic, or just plain stupid. Certainly WWE has more than its fair share. But I guess I still find it compelling enough thanks to characters like Bray Wyatt to watch despite the problems.

(For example this week's RAW storylines were HORRIBLE but some of the matches were so. good. Dean Ambrose on the mic and on a revenge mission: so. good.)

I get the comparison to improv and I'm not going to argue wrestling is unique; but personally the improv I've seen (I live in Chicago. There's a lot.) is primarily just about humor. Sure you might get some social commentary but it's all in this framework of making people laugh. What I love about wrestling is the complete breadth of human emotion this silly, fakescripted, sometimes juvenile, melodramatic performance can make me feel. I've screamed at the TV, I've cheered, I've seethed with anger, I've even cried.
posted by misskaz at 1:26 PM on June 20, 2014 [5 favorites]

*hits thread with folding chair*
posted by jonmc at 1:28 PM on June 20, 2014 [6 favorites]

JONMC

Im talkin to you, punk

You think you can come in here

You think you can come in here and take my belt

Just cause you got some little folding chair you got at sunday school

That's messed up

Taking a folding chair from church

And not only is it messed up

It's wrong

And the only way anyone's gonna put the Fear of God into you

Is in the ring

Cause that's my signature move

PUnk
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:48 PM on June 20, 2014 [11 favorites]

Coincidentally, about 5 minutes before this post went up, my boyfriend and I started watching last year's Summer Slam on the Network. This Brock Lesnar v CM Punk no DQ match is ridic.
posted by misskaz at 2:06 PM on June 20, 2014

In the comments on mightygodking's blog, they were talking about one instance were audience reaction changed the fate of a match in real time. In Wrestlemania 18, Hulk Hogan and The Rock had a match and Hogan was scheduled to lose as Hogan was supposed to be a villain at the time. But during the match, the audience was so on Hogan's side, that he and the Rock decided in the ring to flip the script and have Hogan win. Hogan talks about it here. The match is on youtube.
posted by nooneyouknow at 2:14 PM on June 20, 2014 [1 favorite]

The other fun thing about pro wrestling is that it comes in so many forms. The McMahon tv spectacular, simultaneously carny and trying to avoid that stigma. Lucha libre, aka gymnastics on Halloween gone horribly wrong, with a super-rabid fan base and very defined good/bad alignment. Japan, taking it either super-seriously in some feds or completely dada in others. Little indie groups with two nobodies punching each other in front of farmers' market customers, hoping to catch someone's eye one day. Not many other professions where a ripped muscleman, a scrawny acrobat, a morbidly obese guy and a galoot with nothing but a frying pan and an absurd pain tolerance all have their roles to play.

God help me, but bless 'em all.
posted by delfin at 2:53 PM on June 20, 2014

The difference between such steroid-enhanced pantomimes and true performance art like Dada, Situationism, Fluxus, or even Improv Everywhere is that the practitioners of the latter don't die young after suffering job-related chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

What about sword swallowers, fire breathers, high wire acts and human flies? Are you saying that it stops being performance art when it becomes dangerous?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:09 PM on June 20, 2014 [1 favorite]

FINALLY...

GHOSTRIDE THE WHIP...

HAS COME *BACK* TO METAFILTER!

It's funny, I don't watch that much wrestling as I don't have cable but I still read all kinds of things on the metastory and find it tremendously interesting.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 3:19 PM on June 20, 2014 [2 favorites]

It's funny, I don't watch that much wrestling as I don't have cable but I still read all kinds of things on the metastory and find it tremendously interesting.

I was the same way for the last decade or so, but the Network has reeled me back in (well, that and the steps that WWE has taken to reduce the effects of injuries).
posted by Etrigan at 3:22 PM on June 20, 2014

Wrestling is absolutely an adaptive performance art, but I've spent a good chunk of my my career trying to make truly responsive and real-time anything-goes narrative experiences. Alternate reality games and such. Wrestling is a great example of responsive storytelling, and you could make a case for it being the most successful by leaps and bounds, but it is by no means the only one in existence.

Creative work is a wide open sea. There's no need to plant a flag on one island and insist there's nothing else out there.
posted by Andrhia at 4:48 PM on June 20, 2014

it is the only creative endeavor where the audience affects the work in real time.

Dude, let me tell you about playing in a Top 40/General Business dance band, and the time we played for a Mexican Catholic/Anglo Baptist wedding, or for a mixed group of drunk Air Force and Marine officers, and I will show you fucking real time.
posted by spitbull at 5:05 PM on June 20, 2014 [6 favorites]

Old source-lost quote: "How can you say that Wrestling is fake? There's the good guys, and there's the bad guys, and it's a whole existential struggle."
posted by ovvl at 5:54 PM on June 20, 2014

In the ring to flip the script and have Hogan win.

The rock won that match.
posted by empath at 6:07 PM on June 20, 2014

Speaking as a former jazz musician, yeah, wrestling isn't remotely "the only creative endeavor where the audience affects the work in real time." That's silly. But I guess I don't mind a bit of exaggeration to make the point in this case, because it's an aspect of wrestling that more people should know about and might appreciate.
posted by cribcage at 7:50 PM on June 20, 2014

And the only way anyone's gonna put the Fear of God into you

Is in the ring

Cause that's my signature move

PUnk

Whoa whoa, guys. You're upset, I get it. I know you two want a match! And I know... the MeFi universe wants a match! Well, you'll get one! But it won't happen here tonight! It'll be this Sunday... on MetaFilter Premium!!
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 8:29 PM on June 20, 2014 [3 favorites]

I'm pretty sure standup comedians change their act depending on audience response?
posted by LogicalDash at 7:52 AM on June 21, 2014

he and the Rock decided in the ring to flip the script and have Hogan win. Hogan talks about it here. The match is on youtube yt .

ANy idea where/when in the match they confer? (Or would that not make it to the broadcast edit?)
posted by anonymisc at 1:52 PM on June 21, 2014

They didn't flip the script for who won. They flipped the script for who was heel and who was face (i.e. which of them was meant to be the hero and which the villain). And as an improver (but not wrestler) you wouldn't actually need to confer for that one.
posted by Francis at 2:14 PM on June 21, 2014

We have improv jazz and standup--anybody say battle rhyming yet?
posted by box at 2:18 PM on June 21, 2014

In Wrestlemania 18, Hulk Hogan and The Rock had a match and Hogan was scheduled to lose as Hogan was supposed to be a villain at the time. But during the match, the audience was so on Hogan's side, that he and the Rock decided in the ring to flip the script and have Hogan win.

As noted, the alleged on-the-fly change was not to change the result (which was heavily booked and involved two other wrestlers who were backstage during the match itself), but the flow of the match.

And it is almost certainly bullshit. Hulk Hogan is the least reliable witness there is when it comes to Hulk Hogan's career. He has famously claimed for decades that Elvis came to watch him wrestle in Memphis, even after people pointed out to him that his first ever match anywhere was six days before Elvis died and 900 miles away.

That match (and the post-match hijinks involving those two other guys) was carefully designed to turn Hogan face anyway. You don't do that after a match where he acts like a heel throughout.
posted by Etrigan at 2:18 PM on June 21, 2014 [2 favorites]

Having said that, to answer the question of how two wrestlers would confer during a match: they can mumble to each other during certain holds, and they also use the referee. That's part of why he's in the ring, to help the performers coordinate without spoiling the appearance of the act.
posted by cribcage at 3:06 PM on June 21, 2014 [1 favorite]

Calling your moves in the ring is hardly unknown
posted by Francis at 4:51 PM on June 21, 2014

I was just reading about a group of dedicated, slightly insane fans in the 80s who trolled the crowd watching Mid-Atlantic Wrestling in Greensboro, NC simply by defending and cheering for the bad guys. They called themselves heel fans and sat in the front row nearly every time wrasslin' came to Greensboro.

One of the stranger things they got away with, which wasn't even a product of trolling, was actively changing the outcome of a match by pointing out an "unseen" rope break to the ref, who then actually listened to them and called to restart the match. Now that's something. I'm sure there have been other instances of fans changing a finish but this one impresses me because their success came from playing by the rules. No rushing the ring, no throwing stuff at the wrestlers, no cussing people out. They just kept telling the ref to "do the right thing" so he eventually did.

Granted, this was a small circuit in a much, much smaller time, but yeah, fans have power.

("Rope break" is the term for when a wrestler covered for the pin or in a submission hold manages to get their hand or foot onto one of the ring ropes before the end of the count. The rules say your opponent must release their hold on you once you touch the ropes so it's a "Get Out of Being Pinned Free" card, but only if the ref sees it.)
posted by Spatch at 5:11 PM on June 21, 2014 [1 favorite]

I've always argued that most professional sport is performance art. Mark Fidrytch, Al Hrabosky, etc. I hated Michael Jordan, but dude was an entertainer.

When Trevor Hoffman entered a ball game to the tolling of "Hell's Bells" it wasn't much different than the Undertaker making his entrance into the ring.

Who says performance art has to be scripted? Pretty much all pro sports could fall into "a creative endeavor where the audience affects the work in real time."

I'd say wrestling is less of an art form than basketball, tennis, etc., b/c it is scripted. The joy and sublimity of sport as art comes from the lack of expectation. I can predict how most books/movies will end; I rarely predict how a game will end.

Every time I think it's going to be okay, there's some heinous sexist or racist or homophobic nonsense that just shatters it for me.

Ditto. In the 90s, I had friends who were into it and watched a lot of wrestling, and I could see the appeal, but the culture surrounding the sport was gross. Sad to hear it still is.
posted by mrgrimm at 11:28 PM on June 22, 2014

There are light years of difference between the gross issues with wrestling in the 90s-early00s and today. I am a woman and pretty sensitive when it comes to that kind of stuff. Thanks to the WWE network, I've seen some of the awful "Attitude Era" stuff and you're right, there's no way I could have gotten into wrestling back then. It's fucking terrible.

My issues with wrestling today are more along the lines of "The Divas (women's wrestling division) have a stupid name and stupid pink butterfly title belt and I wish they gave the women more interesting story lines and more training and time on TV. Oh and a more diverse array of body types would be nice." But it's not like back in the day when they were literally tearing clothes off women as punishment and making them mud wrestle for something they or the men they were aligned with did. Or any other number of horrible things that were considered acceptable that I'm not going to name here. This is, after all, the "PG-era" -- Vince McMahon knows that kids and their parents are his cash cow so things aren't much worse than a particularly annoying bland gender-stereotyped sitcom. Faint praise, yes, but I just thought people should know that it is different -- better -- from the really terrible days when WWF and WCW were duking it out for prime time ratings and it was a race to the bottom.
posted by misskaz at 7:01 AM on June 23, 2014 [1 favorite]

The culture surrounding wrestling, so to speak, has changed considerably since the '90s. That era was base. Today the WWE considers itself a PG-rated product. I don't think they're especially consistent about this goal, but I do think having the goal on the table has significantly changed the product and the fan base.

For sure, there are examples of sexism and racism in wrestling still. The women's matches are still colloquially referred to as bathroom breaks (because why bother staying in your seat to watch), and the top stars are all white. Vince McMahon is who he is. We may not see the racism of "Cryme Tyme" (just a few years ago, to be honest) but I would say that if Ron Simmons were signed today, he'd still be torpedoed into the "DAMN!" guy instead of the world champion he was in WCW.

But it's a level of sexism, racism, etc that I don't think you can fairly single-out wrestling for. For instance, are New York Jets fans still harassing women in the ramps at halftime?
posted by cribcage at 7:04 AM on June 23, 2014

"The Attitude Era" sunk to enough depths to drive me away, and I'll agree it's like night and day compared to now. A lot of the lingering -ist content seems to be mostly attributable to McMahon and his cronies. Everyone assumes they're on their way out to pasture, but who knows if things would actually improve.

There seems to be promising talent in the women's division, but they just aren't being utilized well (Paige seems to be the new hope now). And so many matches aren't even long enough to outlast a bathroom break, but it's like complaining that a restaurant's bad food comes in small portions.

Fans are saying that WWE programming has declined in quality and ratings because it tries too hard to please everyone, but just cutting Raw to 2 hrs would be a good first step. I'm not sure if their current financial woes make that less likely though.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 4:26 PM on June 23, 2014

Well, with tonight's Raw I've changed my tune. They have not progressed. They've also lost me as a fan.
posted by misskaz at 7:13 PM on June 23, 2014 [1 favorite]

I haven't watched the show, but I assume Misskaz is referring to a segment between Stephanie McMahon and Vickie Guerrero. Excerpting from Jason Powell's recap:

Vickie Guerrero entered to Eddie Guerrero's old entrance theme... Footage aired of how the Vickie vs. Stephanie match was set up earlier in the show... Stephanie came out and said their match would take place "over here." Stephanie pointed to a pool of slop that was set up next to the stage. Stephanie called out the "ladies."

Layla, Rosa, and Alicia Fox walked to the ring and surrounded Vickie, who rolled out of the ring to avoid them. Stephanie acted upset when the trio of Divas grabbed Vickie. However, Vickie broke free and shoved Rosa into the slop, then dodged a charging Layla, who dove into the slop. Alicia grabbed Vickie from behind, but Vickie spun her around and threw her in. Vickie celebrated, only to have Stephanie kick her in from behind.

"Yes, yes, Vickie, you're fired," Stephanie said. She encouraged the fans to sing the goodbye song to Vickie. Steph kept singing until Vickie stared her down and she realized she was near the pool. "You should consider your retirement," Stephanie said. Vickie grabbed Stephanie and threw her into the pool.

Powell says Guerrero has moved to Houston and going back to school.
posted by cribcage at 10:23 PM on June 23, 2014 [1 favorite]

I honestly can't figure out whether Vince McMahon hates all women more than he hates his daughter. It generally seems to be a coin flip.
posted by Etrigan at 5:47 AM on June 24, 2014

I dunno, I'm sure Vickie and Stephanie went into it wholeheartedly and said "Oh, it sounds like fun!" Last week featured a "comedy" bit where Stephanie projectile vomits on Vickie from off-camera.

The weird thing about the timing is that WWE has been promoting the Special Olympics, I guess they're a sponsor. So yeah, warm and fuzzies all around. The online fandom seems rather split on the "match."
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 9:22 AM on June 24, 2014

How many times was Shane humiliated like that? I recall all of his moments of defeat coming at the end of getting his ass kicked, implicitly putting him on only slightly lower a level than the supermen he walked among. Even as the heeliest heel, Shane's character was Wish Fulfillment Wally.

Stephanie's entire character is Battered Woman Syndrome Betsy.
posted by Etrigan at 9:38 AM on June 24, 2014

Yeah, there is absolutely a gendered difference in how entertainers and their characters in WWE are treated - and last night showed just how dramatic that difference is. I'm still so gutted and disappointed.
posted by misskaz at 9:42 AM on June 24, 2014

I wrote a thing.
posted by misskaz at 1:24 PM on June 25, 2014 [5 favorites]

Hi misskaz,

I'm sorry that this all happened when you were still becoming invested in wrestling. I think it is hard to explain all this stuff to new wresting fans, and you are never sure when you bring someone new in, whether it is going to be offensive and cringe-inducing, or really a whole lot of fun, which is why a lot of us wrestling fans are basically in the closet. You can tell people you understand it is 'fake', but why would you like something so ist when you could just avoid it?

I've always liked wrestling, although for decades it was simply too embarrassing to be a fan and I stopped watching. Oh and I'm a woman.

I am deeply offended by the quality of the women's wrestling matches and wish that they were allowed to be great like the women in SHIMMER. You can see real women's wrestling there. I hate that it doesn't exist like that in the WWE. AJ was awesome, and hopefully paige will be but otherwise it just makes you cringe. And there is no one for them to fight or to get in feuds with, and nothing that could potentially develop.

That all said, with the mud wrestling last night, I wasn't that offended because it was two powerful women who have spent DECADES in the business. These are not two models who are spending a few years in bikinis to provide titillation to a male gaze. Even the other women thrown into the pit weren't gratuitously gazed at. They also sort of made Vickie look powerful like she conquered everyone. Vickie wanted to leave the WWE, and although it seems bizarre, this final straw, where she got to throw Stephanie in a mud pit was in actuality a tribute. Stephanie screaming and Vickie walking away saying thank you as everyone cheered and they played Lie, Cheat, Steal (a racist song!) seemed horrific, but was really probably a special moment for Vickie, and made me happy for her.

Maybe I am just suffering from women wrestling watchers syndrome. The Stephanie character is so insane. I think about what it was like for her to be in college during the attitude era - a time when a lot of kids rebel and discover politics, and who they really are, and she was playing an alter-ego that was growing up in real time, and in front of the world. When she turned form virgin to whore in front of all of us she was really young. But these are carny folks. They are rich now; but their family values are really different from the ones I was brought up with. My parents never wanted me to embarrass them; they didn't hire writers to make it happen!

On another note - how are we going to get wrestling on fanfare?
posted by goneill at 2:15 PM on June 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

I wasn't that offended because it was two powerful women who have spent DECADES in the business.

That pissed me off all the more. Would a Ric Flair-Vince McMahon loser-leaves-town match be a comedy match?

And that doesn't even count the fact that mud wrestling is a thoroughly offensive and objectifying trope -- "women can't wrestle, so let's make them get each other 'dirty' for men's enjoyment."
posted by Etrigan at 5:24 PM on June 26, 2014

Mud wrestling aside, because I mostly agree with that criticism, Vickie Guerrero isn't Ric Flair. She has always been comedy. It would be weird to suddenly turn serious with her departure, especially since it's not likely to be a forever departure; I would think she'll be back for cameos.

Re wrestling on FanFare, while the site is still basically beta, I wouldn't bother pushing. My thinking has been that if FanFare has stabilized by August and there's a really good SummerSlam storyline, then I or someone else would request a thread then. I'd love to see weekly threads, but for the site's current state I would think PPVs probably make more sense. Matt has made a couple comments indicating that, rightly or wrongly, he doesn't think wrestling is "episodic" in the sense he was apparently trying to pursue with FanFare.
posted by cribcage at 9:00 PM on June 26, 2014

Mud wrestling aside, because I mostly agree with that criticism, Vickie Guerrero isn't Ric Flair. She has always been comedy. It would be weird to suddenly turn serious with her departure, especially since it's not likely to be a forever departure; I would think she'll be back for cameos.

But Stephanie very much isn't comedy, and by bringing up all the Eddie stuff and letting Vickie get the unearned face pop, they did essentially turn Vickie serious. But then they went comedy on it anyway. And even if you think Flair-Vince isn't a fair comparison, they wouldn't do that bit with Triple H firing Jerry Lawler and both of them covered in goo. They might do something similarly stupid, but it wouldn't be so blatantly Ha It's Just Chicks Who Fucking Cares Episode 138.
posted by Etrigan at 9:52 PM on June 26, 2014

Even if Vickie and Stephanie were all "yeah woo that sounds totes rad" 100% on board with the idea, that doesn't make it not sexist. I don't want to take away their own agency, but at the same time there must have been pressure on them - pressure on Vickie to do what her bosses asked her to do one last time, pressure on Stephanie to do what she thought the fans/her dad wanted, etc. And let's not forget that these two women have spent years steeped in a culture that thinks this kind of stuff is okay and normal. Steph literally grew up in it.

All the critiques about how poorly they treat women wrestlers is part of the context in which the mud pit happened. It's all related.

When the camera turned and I first saw the mud pit, my heart SANK. (And the crowd popped, you'll notice.) My mind immediately jumped to "fuck, they are gonna end up in there and we'll be lucky if their clothes stay on." I'm sure that's why some of the crowd got so excited too. I think the skit as it turned out wasn't as bad as it could have been, but it absolutely alluded to bikini mud pit wrestling of the past. It allowed WWE to titillate some of its audience with that reference, but keep the actual skit PG.
posted by misskaz at 7:07 AM on June 27, 2014 [1 favorite]

To tie together the theme of this post and the latest PPV:

Money in the Bank shows how important both long-term planning and on-the-fly booking are, by failing at both.

SPOILERS AHOY

Okay, so Daniel Bryan's injury threw things into a cocked hat. That's fine. I understand. But the reflexive "Welp, let's put the belts on Cena" is frankly sad at this point. It's like when the Bret Hart experiment ended at WMIX with the panicked Hogan return to titleholding. From all appearances, they're building to Cena-Lesnar III at SummerSlam, which ugh no.

On the plus side, the Dean Ambrose pop was crazy, and if he and Rollins aren't tuning up right now for an extended series of matches for the briefcase, then, well, I just give the hell up.

And the weirdly generous pop for Stardust might mean an extended run with the Rhodes boys in the Tag Team ranks, but the farther they can get them away from Rybaxel, the better.

(And dooon't get me started on how dumb it was to have the Authority at ringside for the main event.)
posted by Etrigan at 4:46 PM on June 30, 2014

weirdly generous pop for Stardust

Stardust is fantastic, and Boston is a pretty smarky crowd... I don't know that it was weird.

That said, yeah, lousy booking, but a spark of real greatness with Ambrose and Rollins. The briefcase match managed to be both a spot-fest and a match that told a story, which is pretty rare in the WWE. The title match was pretty poor in comparison, and then the outcome.

That said, I'll gladly watch Cena and Lesnar again on the strength of the Extreme Rules match. If they're not going to bother telling a story with the title, at least they can put on an entertaining match. If they want to.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:36 AM on July 1, 2014

I don't mind the Cena Wins LOL, but the Cena-Lesnar SummerSlam main event was already leaked so I was prepared for it. I don't think it will be a terrible match, and if someone is gonna lose to Lesnar I'd rather it be Cena than a rising star I actually like.

Ambrose. I just love him so much. Ambrose Ambrose Ambrose. I love the idea of him coming out every time Rollins tries to cash in the briefcase and just causing chaos.

I watched delayed and skipped some of the filler matches - I heard Big E - Rusev was actually pretty good so I might go back and watch that one. So annoyed with the Summer Rae-Layla fighting over the (boring, ugly, and stupid IMO) boyfriend. (Although MAYBE good can come out of it based on Raw last night? IDK how I feel about it yet... depends where they go with it.)
posted by misskaz at 9:28 AM on July 1, 2014

"From one scumbag to another..." Dean Ambrose is my new favorite.

weirdly generous pop for Stardust

Stardust is fantastic, and Boston is a pretty smarky crowd... I don't know that it was weird.

I like Stardust, but it's just weird how over it is so fast. I mean, it's Cody Rhodes. It's the guy who managed to be the least interesting person in the Rhodes family.
posted by Etrigan at 9:50 AM on July 1, 2014