The 9/11 notes of Ari Fleischer
September 11, 2014 3:22 PM Subscribe
(Lawrence) Ari Fleischer is the former White House Press Secretary for U.S. President George W. Bush, from January 2001 to July 2003. 13 years on from 9/11, Ari is tweeting the events of that day from his notes (start).
Bush also told VP - and I quote - "We're at war Dick and we're going to find out who did this and we're going to kick their ass."
Col. Tillman, upon hearing the news, posted an armed Air Force Security Officer at the base of the steps leading up to the cockpit of AFOne. ... Think about that. Aboard one of the most secure spots on earth, with nothing but trusted aides/Secret Service, the fear was an inside attack.
Bush closed his call with Cheney saying, "It's the new war. It's the faceless coward that attacks."
Bush calls Rumsfeld: "It's a day of national tragedy and we'll clean up the mess and then the ball will be in your court ... and [Gen.] Dick Myers court to respond." Myers was the incoming Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Bush also called Giuliani to praise his response. He warned of a possible second wave - an issue that drove many of Bush's later decisions.
Bush also told VP - and I quote - "We're at war Dick and we're going to find out who did this and we're going to kick their ass."
Col. Tillman, upon hearing the news, posted an armed Air Force Security Officer at the base of the steps leading up to the cockpit of AFOne. ... Think about that. Aboard one of the most secure spots on earth, with nothing but trusted aides/Secret Service, the fear was an inside attack.
Bush closed his call with Cheney saying, "It's the new war. It's the faceless coward that attacks."
Bush calls Rumsfeld: "It's a day of national tragedy and we'll clean up the mess and then the ball will be in your court ... and [Gen.] Dick Myers court to respond." Myers was the incoming Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Bush also called Giuliani to praise his response. He warned of a possible second wave - an issue that drove many of Bush's later decisions.
Never to late to try to change the historical narrative of reckless incompetence, I guess. Don't know why the hell we'd be interested drinking up a shitheel liar's lies again ten years after the fact.
posted by absalom at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [44 favorites]
posted by absalom at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [44 favorites]
Wonderful, will that PR hack Fleischer continue this 140-character flack attack to include Bush's famous "truly not concerned about bin Laden" remark, his "I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers. Thank you. Now watch this drive.", or inside quotes from how the Bush administration let Bin Laden slip out of Tora Bora in 2001?
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:31 PM on September 11, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:31 PM on September 11, 2014 [20 favorites]
In the Loop didn't really need an extended epilogue set in the States.
posted by kewb at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by kewb at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
Fuck this guy.
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:36 PM on September 11, 2014 [53 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 3:36 PM on September 11, 2014 [53 favorites]
... Think about that. Aboard one of the most secure spots on earth, with nothing but trusted aides/Secret Service, the fear was an inside attack.
You know what I think ? I think there is no greater sign that the Bush administration was caught absolutely flat footed by 9/11 and was floundering in response.
This was a straight up intelligence failure. From the top to the bottom.
Credit where it is due, however, his administration did manage to make a lot of people pay for that mistake.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
You know what I think ? I think there is no greater sign that the Bush administration was caught absolutely flat footed by 9/11 and was floundering in response.
This was a straight up intelligence failure. From the top to the bottom.
Credit where it is due, however, his administration did manage to make a lot of people pay for that mistake.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:37 PM on September 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
"We're at war Dick and we're going to find out who did this and we're going to kick their ass."
Dude, did you miss the memo "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US" from last month???
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [15 favorites]
Dude, did you miss the memo "Bin Laden Determined to Strike US" from last month???
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [15 favorites]
Where's My Pet Goat?
posted by aspo at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by aspo at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
"The originals are in a bank vault now."
In other words, I can tweet whatever the hell I want and you'll just have to take my word for it.
posted by monospace at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
In other words, I can tweet whatever the hell I want and you'll just have to take my word for it.
posted by monospace at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2014 [6 favorites]
@Doktor Zed - I've been relistening to Stern from that morning, and even HE mentions Bin Laden within the first 20 minutes.
posted by Old Man Wilson at 3:41 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by Old Man Wilson at 3:41 PM on September 11, 2014
Well at least that whole quagmire thing never happened.
posted by Artw at 3:42 PM on September 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:42 PM on September 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
It feels like there's more 9/11 anniversary stuff this year than there has been the past few years. I suppose that's just to get us all psyched up to invade Iraq again.
posted by ckape at 3:44 PM on September 11, 2014 [16 favorites]
posted by ckape at 3:44 PM on September 11, 2014 [16 favorites]
Those assholes. They fucked things up left, right, and center and we'll be paying for it for decades at least.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 3:46 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
Yeah now it's the ISIS pig being paraded around in a poke; once again we're being asked to buy it, just trust the grown ups. NYT: Boehner Backs Obama on ISIS Fight.
To quote that earnest philosopher, "won't get fooled again".
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:48 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
To quote that earnest philosopher, "won't get fooled again".
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:48 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Funny thing is.. for the longest time I had a linked BBC article sitting in my favs folder talking about how Bush rejected the Taliban's offer to turn over Bin Laden... link finally went dead early this year.
Now, who knows if the Taliban would have or not, but the fact is the offer was made and was just rejected, for whatever reason.
posted by edgeways at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Now, who knows if the Taliban would have or not, but the fact is the offer was made and was just rejected, for whatever reason.
posted by edgeways at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well at least that whole quagmire thing never happened.
And the budget's balanced and the economy's going great ever since Iraq paid us for bringing freedom to their shores.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
And the budget's balanced and the economy's going great ever since Iraq paid us for bringing freedom to their shores.
posted by entropicamericana at 3:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
Funny thing is.. for the longest time I had a linked BBC article sitting in my favs folder talking about how Bush rejected the Taliban's offer to turn over Bin Laden... link finally went dead early this year.
This one?
posted by dng at 3:52 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
This one?
posted by dng at 3:52 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
Now, who knows if the Taliban would have or not, but the fact is the offer was made and was just rejected, for whatever reason.
it's my recollection that one of the conditions was that any trial happen in an islamic country under islamic law, which was not something the u s could agree with - and what islamic country in their right mind would want to host a trial like that?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
it's my recollection that one of the conditions was that any trial happen in an islamic country under islamic law, which was not something the u s could agree with - and what islamic country in their right mind would want to host a trial like that?
posted by pyramid termite at 3:53 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yeah now it's the ISIS pig being paraded around in a poke; once again we're being asked to buy it, just trust the grown ups.
I'm really not comfortable with a direct parallel here. The war in the early 2000s was based on transparently fabricated bullshit that had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11 or anything else. The whole time they were selling it on security threats of "weapons of mass destruction related activities" and ties to terror that didn't exist, while turning a blind eye to countries that do actually have ties to terror but are best buds with the US diplomatically.
ISIS is undeniably a bunch of murderous psychos enjoying way too much success taking over large parts of Iraq and Syria and getting their hands on too much money and weapons. I don't see any convenient fictions there, and frankly to me it's a way more justifiable use of military force.
posted by Hoopo at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2014 [19 favorites]
I'm really not comfortable with a direct parallel here. The war in the early 2000s was based on transparently fabricated bullshit that had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11 or anything else. The whole time they were selling it on security threats of "weapons of mass destruction related activities" and ties to terror that didn't exist, while turning a blind eye to countries that do actually have ties to terror but are best buds with the US diplomatically.
ISIS is undeniably a bunch of murderous psychos enjoying way too much success taking over large parts of Iraq and Syria and getting their hands on too much money and weapons. I don't see any convenient fictions there, and frankly to me it's a way more justifiable use of military force.
posted by Hoopo at 3:57 PM on September 11, 2014 [19 favorites]
Old Man Wilson: "@Doktor Zed - I've been relistening to Stern from that morning, and even HE mentions Bin Laden within the first 20 minutes."
I remember hearing about it that day. My boss and I were in a municipality doing some work and a local cop or somebody like that came in and said that planes were flown in, and then something like "They're thinking it might be the Palestinians" and I was like "What the fuck? Palestinians? Who the hell is 'they'?" and while I didn't challenge him on it, just thought "Fuck it's al Qaeda (or bin Laden - I have to admit I can't remember if I knew one or the other or both - I remember the Africa bombings most, then of course the Cole...) Still...
Man, fuck Ari Fleischer that smug piece of shit. I honestly am not sure whether I hated him or that other Pillsbury fucker worse (I'd ask for his name, but I honestly would rather not have to remember)).
Being the WH Press Secretary has to be one of the shittiest jobs in the world. I can't stand the ones who are ostensibly on my side; let alone the ones on the opposite side of th aisle.
posted by symbioid at 3:59 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
I remember hearing about it that day. My boss and I were in a municipality doing some work and a local cop or somebody like that came in and said that planes were flown in, and then something like "They're thinking it might be the Palestinians" and I was like "What the fuck? Palestinians? Who the hell is 'they'?" and while I didn't challenge him on it, just thought "Fuck it's al Qaeda (or bin Laden - I have to admit I can't remember if I knew one or the other or both - I remember the Africa bombings most, then of course the Cole...) Still...
Man, fuck Ari Fleischer that smug piece of shit. I honestly am not sure whether I hated him or that other Pillsbury fucker worse (I'd ask for his name, but I honestly would rather not have to remember)).
Being the WH Press Secretary has to be one of the shittiest jobs in the world. I can't stand the ones who are ostensibly on my side; let alone the ones on the opposite side of th aisle.
posted by symbioid at 3:59 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
"Yes! Operation: Enduring Our Freedom To Bomb the Living Fuck Out Of You is in the house!!!"
"Oh my God, this War On Terrorism is gonna rule! I can't wait until the war is over and there's no more terrorism!"
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Recent Events:
Wednesday 10 September:580 killed
Almeidat: 500 found in mass grave.
Barzak: 14 in mass grave.
Mosul: 31 policemen executed.
Baghdad: 24 by IEDs, car bombs, gunfire; 1 body.
Tikrit: 1 in clashes.
Wasit: 6 by gunfire, IED.
Qayyarah: 3 brothers killed in air strikes.
posted by Zack_Replica at 4:01 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
"Oh my God, this War On Terrorism is gonna rule! I can't wait until the war is over and there's no more terrorism!"
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Recent Events:
Wednesday 10 September:580 killed
Almeidat: 500 found in mass grave.
Barzak: 14 in mass grave.
Mosul: 31 policemen executed.
Baghdad: 24 by IEDs, car bombs, gunfire; 1 body.
Tikrit: 1 in clashes.
Wasit: 6 by gunfire, IED.
Qayyarah: 3 brothers killed in air strikes.
posted by Zack_Replica at 4:01 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
> Credit where it is due, however, his administration did manage to make a lot of people pay for that mistake.
One vivid memory I have of that day is being gathered around a TV pushed into a boardroom at work and hearing someone mutter "A lot of people are going to die because of this."
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:07 PM on September 11, 2014
One vivid memory I have of that day is being gathered around a TV pushed into a boardroom at work and hearing someone mutter "A lot of people are going to die because of this."
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:07 PM on September 11, 2014
One vivid memory I have of that day is being gathered around a TV pushed into a boardroom at work and hearing someone mutter "A lot of people are going to die because of this."
Documented civilian deaths from violence
129,624 – 145,316
That's 43.5 - 48.8 9/11s for those of you playing the home game. It's like the Chicago way on a war crime scale.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on September 11, 2014 [10 favorites]
Documented civilian deaths from violence
129,624 – 145,316
That's 43.5 - 48.8 9/11s for those of you playing the home game. It's like the Chicago way on a war crime scale.
posted by Talez at 4:11 PM on September 11, 2014 [10 favorites]
I had thought we were going to make it through the day without a 9/11 FPP.
posted by fairmettle at 4:12 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
posted by fairmettle at 4:12 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
since saudi arabia was behind this, not iraq, can we attack them next? please?
posted by bruce at 4:18 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by bruce at 4:18 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
It was interesting to read Fleischer's perspective, to me. And I appreciate that Bush wanted to appear calm while reading to the students, and didn't feel he should brief the press until he had been briefed himself. But someone on reddit/r/nyc this morning reposted the video of Kevin Cosgrove's 911 call from the 105th floor of the South Tower, talking about his office filled with young men who weren't ready to die. And then I feel nothing but rage for Bush all over again.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:20 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:20 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
I had thought we were going to make it through the day without a 9/11 FPP.
That comment made me look at today's date - which I hadn't realized it was 9/11.
I had forgotten.
posted by el io at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
That comment made me look at today's date - which I hadn't realized it was 9/11.
I had forgotten.
posted by el io at 4:21 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
Bush also called Giuliani to praise his response. He warned of a possible second wave - an issue that drove many of Bush's later decisions.
"President Bush said Saturday that anthrax cases represent a 'second wave of terrorist attacks' on the country." President Bush: 0-2 at keeping America safe.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:23 PM on September 11, 2014
since saudi arabia was behind this, not iraq, can we attack them next? please?
I think the best punishment for the House of Saud and all those other jackasses is "drill baby drill." Unfortunately, weaning North America off of Saudi crude will inevitably lead to geopolitical instability. The post-Berlin Wall era is over.
posted by Nevin at 4:24 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think the best punishment for the House of Saud and all those other jackasses is "drill baby drill." Unfortunately, weaning North America off of Saudi crude will inevitably lead to geopolitical instability. The post-Berlin Wall era is over.
posted by Nevin at 4:24 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
roomthreeseventeen: "And I appreciate that Bush wanted to appear calm while reading to the students..."
Which is nice and all, but all it would take is saying, "Thanks for having me, you guys, and you're awesome kids, but some really important President stuff has just come up which I really should be dealing with. Everything will be fine."
posted by brundlefly at 4:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [14 favorites]
Which is nice and all, but all it would take is saying, "Thanks for having me, you guys, and you're awesome kids, but some really important President stuff has just come up which I really should be dealing with. Everything will be fine."
posted by brundlefly at 4:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [14 favorites]
brundlefly, yeah, I don't disagree with that. I honestly think he had no idea what to do, and his staff, as evidenced in these tweets, told him to stay put.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:33 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:33 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
>And then I feel nothing but rage for Bush all over again.
In his defense - and I am no Bush supporter by any means - this or something very much like it was going to happen no matter who was president. I don't forgive him his reaction, but the attack itself was primed long before he showed up.
"Everything will be fine."
But that would have been a lie....
posted by IndigoJones at 4:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
In his defense - and I am no Bush supporter by any means - this or something very much like it was going to happen no matter who was president. I don't forgive him his reaction, but the attack itself was primed long before he showed up.
"Everything will be fine."
But that would have been a lie....
posted by IndigoJones at 4:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
But that would have been a lie....
The first of many.
posted by Noms_Tiem at 4:41 PM on September 11, 2014
The first of many.
posted by Noms_Tiem at 4:41 PM on September 11, 2014
I had forgotten.
Never do that. Never.
posted by gauche at 4:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
Never do that. Never.
posted by gauche at 4:49 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
If only they'd read the memo about "Bin Laden being determined to attack inside the United States."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:50 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:50 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Which is nice and all, but all it would take is saying, "Thanks for having me, you guys, and you're awesome kids, but some really important President stuff has just come up which I really should be dealing with. Everything will be fine."
Exactly. Just what kind of person is told "America is under attack" when they happen to be, you know, actually in charge of the Government of the United States of America and reacts the same way as if you told me we were ordering pizza for lunch? I get and appreciate not leaping up in a panic and talking to the press before you know anything, but the basic lack of even curiosity as to what was happening is truly baffling to me.
posted by zachlipton at 4:56 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
Exactly. Just what kind of person is told "America is under attack" when they happen to be, you know, actually in charge of the Government of the United States of America and reacts the same way as if you told me we were ordering pizza for lunch? I get and appreciate not leaping up in a panic and talking to the press before you know anything, but the basic lack of even curiosity as to what was happening is truly baffling to me.
posted by zachlipton at 4:56 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
we'll be paying for it for decades at least
We'll be paying for it for the rest of this chapter of human history.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:57 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
We'll be paying for it for the rest of this chapter of human history.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:57 PM on September 11, 2014 [8 favorites]
Clearly the issue was that if a President cannot perform a duty then that duty reverts to the Vice President, and terror attack or no it is unsafe to leave children in a room with Dick Cheney.
posted by ckape at 4:58 PM on September 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by ckape at 4:58 PM on September 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
IndigoJones: "But that would have been a lie...."
True. How about, "You will be perfectly fine while you're sitting in this classroom. My rushing out of the room doesn't mean you will all die horribly. Probably. For now."
posted by brundlefly at 4:59 PM on September 11, 2014
True. How about, "You will be perfectly fine while you're sitting in this classroom. My rushing out of the room doesn't mean you will all die horribly. Probably. For now."
posted by brundlefly at 4:59 PM on September 11, 2014
Man, I hate this day. 5 friends dead. My biz partner coming out of 7 WTC and cops telling him, 'don't look up, don't look back, run,' he got two blocks before it came down, presumably on the cop.
All the follow on, and all over, people who lost nothing are the loudest chanters of 'Never forget,' trotting out all the jingoistic, trite cliches of the faithful, and the military fetishists. A 13 year theatrical production, sponsored in part by cable news, Rupert Murdoch, oilmen, and the commercial culture killers.
And I am trying not to be like all 'oh, you guys don't live in NY' and all. I'm not sure why this bothers me...
13 years.
Jesus.
posted by sfts2 at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2014 [46 favorites]
All the follow on, and all over, people who lost nothing are the loudest chanters of 'Never forget,' trotting out all the jingoistic, trite cliches of the faithful, and the military fetishists. A 13 year theatrical production, sponsored in part by cable news, Rupert Murdoch, oilmen, and the commercial culture killers.
And I am trying not to be like all 'oh, you guys don't live in NY' and all. I'm not sure why this bothers me...
13 years.
Jesus.
posted by sfts2 at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2014 [46 favorites]
ISIS is undeniably a bunch of murderous psychos enjoying way too much success taking over large parts of Iraq and Syria and getting their hands on too much money and weapons. I don't see any convenient fictions there, and frankly to me it's a way more justifiable use of military force.
Apples-to-oranges comparisons aside, make a list of U.S. military interventions in the Middle East that worked out well for us. Now make a list of U.S. military interventions that did not work out so well for us.
Which is longer by a mile?
Good intentions don't matter if the unintended consequences are worse than whatever it is you're trying to prevent.
Let's not go through this again.
posted by echocollate at 5:04 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]
Apples-to-oranges comparisons aside, make a list of U.S. military interventions in the Middle East that worked out well for us. Now make a list of U.S. military interventions that did not work out so well for us.
Which is longer by a mile?
Good intentions don't matter if the unintended consequences are worse than whatever it is you're trying to prevent.
Let's not go through this again.
posted by echocollate at 5:04 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]
ISIS is undeniably a bunch of murderous psychos enjoying way too much success taking over large parts of Iraq and Syria and getting their hands on too much money and weapons. I don't see any convenient fictions there, and frankly to me it's a way more justifiable use of military force.
this is a matter of protecting regional/saudi stability, let them fight their own wars. lord knows we sell them enough arms for it
posted by p3on at 5:16 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
this is a matter of protecting regional/saudi stability, let them fight their own wars. lord knows we sell them enough arms for it
posted by p3on at 5:16 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
I think the best punishment for the House of Saud and all those other jackasses is "drill baby drill."
You can't drill enough to move the needle much, and oil is sold on a commodity market. The phrase you might want is "renewables and energy diversification baby, renewables and energy diversification". Admittedly it's not as snappy.
posted by jaduncan at 5:23 PM on September 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
You can't drill enough to move the needle much, and oil is sold on a commodity market. The phrase you might want is "renewables and energy diversification baby, renewables and energy diversification". Admittedly it's not as snappy.
posted by jaduncan at 5:23 PM on September 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
Now make a list of U.S. military interventions that did not work out so well for us.
Is it the ones where they left before there was a realistic prospect of a good, stable outcome?
let them fight their own wars
The "their wars" ship sorta sailed a while back.
posted by Hoopo at 5:27 PM on September 11, 2014
Is it the ones where they left before there was a realistic prospect of a good, stable outcome?
let them fight their own wars
The "their wars" ship sorta sailed a while back.
posted by Hoopo at 5:27 PM on September 11, 2014
I don't believe a word of what Fleischer says Bush said--does anyone remember the inarticulate president's first press conference where he referred to the hijackers as "folks"? And I wonder who made up that story that Air Force one was directly threatened by terrorists? Ari Fleischer, anyone?
posted by etaoin at 5:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
posted by etaoin at 5:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [5 favorites]
i've said it before, but i really wonder if one of the purposes of our middle eastern wars is to train and prepare american soldiers for counter-insurgency operations in the u s
maybe that's too paranoid - maybe it isn't deliberate or overtly planned
but after what we saw this summer in ferguson, i dare say it's one of the results
posted by pyramid termite at 5:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
maybe that's too paranoid - maybe it isn't deliberate or overtly planned
but after what we saw this summer in ferguson, i dare say it's one of the results
posted by pyramid termite at 5:39 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
Just a reminder that the live, U.S.-manufactured Anthrax was mailed to Daschle and Leahy, the two Senators most likely to resist the Patriot Act.
Daschle was the opposition majority leader in the Senate. Leahy had recently petitioned the Appropriations Committee to delay the Intelligence Authorization Act.
posted by clarknova at 5:46 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]
Daschle was the opposition majority leader in the Senate. Leahy had recently petitioned the Appropriations Committee to delay the Intelligence Authorization Act.
posted by clarknova at 5:46 PM on September 11, 2014 [11 favorites]
but after what we saw this summer in ferguson, i dare say it's one of the results
The US Army would have had people up on charges for the type of trigger discipline being used, even setting aside the generally crap tactics used. Equipment isn't all that makes a soldier.
posted by jaduncan at 5:47 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
The US Army would have had people up on charges for the type of trigger discipline being used, even setting aside the generally crap tactics used. Equipment isn't all that makes a soldier.
posted by jaduncan at 5:47 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
this is a matter of protecting regional/saudi stability, let them fight their own wars.
How much Saudi oil did you use today?
posted by goethean at 5:47 PM on September 11, 2014
How much Saudi oil did you use today?
posted by goethean at 5:47 PM on September 11, 2014
The US Army would have had people up on charges for the type of trigger discipline being used, even setting aside the generally crap tactics used.
i'm sure - but once they're out of the army and have joined a police force, then what?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:53 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
i'm sure - but once they're out of the army and have joined a police force, then what?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:53 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
It feels like there's more 9/11 anniversary stuff this year than there has been the past few years. I suppose that's just to get us all psyched up to invade Iraq again.
I'm not going to say you are right, but I find it interesting that this three year old story got dragged out of the archives to be on the front page of the WP today.
posted by nubs at 5:57 PM on September 11, 2014
I'm not going to say you are right, but I find it interesting that this three year old story got dragged out of the archives to be on the front page of the WP today.
posted by nubs at 5:57 PM on September 11, 2014
Is it the ones where they left before there was a realistic prospect of a good, stable outcome?
There were never any realistic prospects of a good, stable outcome that didn't require us co-owning Iraq indefinitely. The fact that we went in anyway says a lot about how much forethought that went into the decision.
posted by echocollate at 6:00 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
There were never any realistic prospects of a good, stable outcome that didn't require us co-owning Iraq indefinitely. The fact that we went in anyway says a lot about how much forethought that went into the decision.
posted by echocollate at 6:00 PM on September 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
i'm sure - but once they're out of the army and have joined a police force, then what?
Then they'll be a lot more professional than those racist rednecks were. Good COIN involves trying to build up community relations; there's a reason you often see veterans protesting police when they use the Miami intervention model.
posted by jaduncan at 6:05 PM on September 11, 2014
Then they'll be a lot more professional than those racist rednecks were. Good COIN involves trying to build up community relations; there's a reason you often see veterans protesting police when they use the Miami intervention model.
posted by jaduncan at 6:05 PM on September 11, 2014
I've talked before about losing my friend on 9/11, and won't rehash it, but if we as a country could stop celebrating the day, that would be awesome.
Look, not for nothing, I'm sorry that 3000 people perished. It is a terrible tragedy and we as a people are lessened by their early loss. I'm sorry that thousands upon thousands of other suffered the fallout and illnesses and everything else that happened, but jesus on a fucking stick...just stop acting like those people were worth more than the hundreds of thousands of people in the wrong fucking country that we killed. Let's not act like the building was worth the billions in treasure we poured into fighting the wrong people. Let's not pretend that 18 Saudis with box cutters are worth the insane security dystopia we've created. Or that any of this was worth the lives, minds and souls of American soldiers these fucking chickenhawks sacrificed on Mammon's altar of war profiteering.
Every. single. one. of the Bush administration, if there were a just god, would be in prison for treason or war crimes. Fuck them all. I hope Ari chokes on his words like it's a pretzel. I hope he falls over and stops Cheney's heart. I wish nothing but ill for all of them.
They could have prevented this. They could have prevented all of this. They chose this, and then they continue to masturbate on the grave every fucking year and expect the rest of us to dance to their bloodthirsty evil caterwauling.
posted by dejah420 at 6:07 PM on September 11, 2014 [51 favorites]
Look, not for nothing, I'm sorry that 3000 people perished. It is a terrible tragedy and we as a people are lessened by their early loss. I'm sorry that thousands upon thousands of other suffered the fallout and illnesses and everything else that happened, but jesus on a fucking stick...just stop acting like those people were worth more than the hundreds of thousands of people in the wrong fucking country that we killed. Let's not act like the building was worth the billions in treasure we poured into fighting the wrong people. Let's not pretend that 18 Saudis with box cutters are worth the insane security dystopia we've created. Or that any of this was worth the lives, minds and souls of American soldiers these fucking chickenhawks sacrificed on Mammon's altar of war profiteering.
Every. single. one. of the Bush administration, if there were a just god, would be in prison for treason or war crimes. Fuck them all. I hope Ari chokes on his words like it's a pretzel. I hope he falls over and stops Cheney's heart. I wish nothing but ill for all of them.
They could have prevented this. They could have prevented all of this. They chose this, and then they continue to masturbate on the grave every fucking year and expect the rest of us to dance to their bloodthirsty evil caterwauling.
posted by dejah420 at 6:07 PM on September 11, 2014 [51 favorites]
It should however be said that Ferguson didn't really even qualify as Miami so much as the "idiots with excessive kit and no real plan" model.
posted by jaduncan at 6:08 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by jaduncan at 6:08 PM on September 11, 2014
dejah420: “I've talked before about losing my friend on 9/11, and won't rehash it, but if we as a country could stop celebrating the day, that would be awesome. ”Seconded.
"Searching for that right balance between Remembering and Not being re-traumatized for the rest of my life."—Matt Pearce
posted by ob1quixote at 6:18 PM on September 11, 2014
9/11's secret 28-page history: Families demand release of classified 2002 report detailing foreign-government support for September 11 hijackers.
posted by homunculus at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by homunculus at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2014
It's a pretty interesting reflection on 9/11, though it seems Twitter is not really designed for this purpose and the contents are kind of shoehorned in.
posted by crapmatic at 7:06 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by crapmatic at 7:06 PM on September 11, 2014
ISIS is undeniably a bunch of murderous psychos enjoying way too much success taking over large parts of Iraq and Syria and getting their hands on too much money and weapons. I don't see any convenient fictions there, and frankly to me it's a way more justifiable use of military force.
You might have said the same about the Taliban, back when. I remember all those stories about girls finally getting the chance to go school, after the US invasion. I may even have reposted them here.
I hope they're OK.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:14 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
You might have said the same about the Taliban, back when. I remember all those stories about girls finally getting the chance to go school, after the US invasion. I may even have reposted them here.
I hope they're OK.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:14 PM on September 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
The ISIS beheading video is probably bogus and war propaganda.
posted by clarknova at 7:35 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by clarknova at 7:35 PM on September 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
in the President's cabin, I was busy taking notes. He was mostly on the phone with the VP, SecDef Rumsfeld, Gov Pataki and Mayor Giuliani.
POTUS goes into a holding room and calls Condi. [...] POTUS is told of attack on the Pentagon by either the Secret Service in the front of the limo, or by Condi on the phone. I don't remember.
Grrrrr.
I have nothing else to add that others, especially dejah420, haven't already said.
posted by jokeefe at 9:00 PM on September 11, 2014
POTUS goes into a holding room and calls Condi. [...] POTUS is told of attack on the Pentagon by either the Secret Service in the front of the limo, or by Condi on the phone. I don't remember.
Grrrrr.
I have nothing else to add that others, especially dejah420, haven't already said.
posted by jokeefe at 9:00 PM on September 11, 2014
There were never any realistic prospects of a good, stable outcome that didn't require us co-owning Iraq indefinitely
Yes.
posted by Hoopo at 9:20 PM on September 11, 2014
Yes.
posted by Hoopo at 9:20 PM on September 11, 2014
I don't like Mr. Fleischer, in fact I'll gladly lift back up the rock he crawled out from under of.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:11 PM on September 11, 2014
posted by From Bklyn at 11:11 PM on September 11, 2014
The ISIS beheading video is probably bogus and war propaganda.
Maybe, maybe not - but we do know for sure that genuine snuff movies were created by the US and are readily available on DVD in markets in the middle east or online, where they are viewed with no less horror than the ISIS beheadings are by 'us.'
There are the infamous Abu Ghraib prison 'thumbs up' pics. There was the Apache helicopter video released by WikiLeaks in which American pilots gunned down Iraqi civilians on the streets of Baghdad (including two Reuters correspondents), while on the sound track the crew are heard wisecracking. There are videos of drone attacks on civilians with the remote crew laughing about 'bug splat'. There was the video of U.S. troops urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. There are the trophy photos of body parts brought home by U.S. soldiers.
posted by colie at 11:55 PM on September 11, 2014
Maybe, maybe not - but we do know for sure that genuine snuff movies were created by the US and are readily available on DVD in markets in the middle east or online, where they are viewed with no less horror than the ISIS beheadings are by 'us.'
There are the infamous Abu Ghraib prison 'thumbs up' pics. There was the Apache helicopter video released by WikiLeaks in which American pilots gunned down Iraqi civilians on the streets of Baghdad (including two Reuters correspondents), while on the sound track the crew are heard wisecracking. There are videos of drone attacks on civilians with the remote crew laughing about 'bug splat'. There was the video of U.S. troops urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. There are the trophy photos of body parts brought home by U.S. soldiers.
posted by colie at 11:55 PM on September 11, 2014
Sign me up on the "fuck all these guys" team fuck Ari Fleischer, too. He is a particularly nasty piece of hack work, a real douchebag.
Liars, killers, and fools.
I don't care about 9/11. I was in NYC. I'm fucking over it. The rest of America needs to get over it like NYC residents have.
I refuse to turn it into another stupid patriotic holiday.
Bush fucked us up so bad.
posted by spitbull at 2:37 AM on September 12, 2014 [9 favorites]
Liars, killers, and fools.
I don't care about 9/11. I was in NYC. I'm fucking over it. The rest of America needs to get over it like NYC residents have.
I refuse to turn it into another stupid patriotic holiday.
Bush fucked us up so bad.
posted by spitbull at 2:37 AM on September 12, 2014 [9 favorites]
9/11/01 will always be the day that I discovered that I am not colloquially a citizen of the United States. It marked five days of hiding in my dorm room, because every immediate authority figure in my vicinity told me that leaving meant I would be insulted, assaulted, or worse.
It also marked the day that I discovered that hiding out under the covers with a very nice and also terrified Sikh girl while listening to Cave In's album Jupiter on repeat is not too bad, as long as you stop jumping every time there's a knock on the door; as long as her parents check in via unstable phone lines to say that they're fine, they've only had things feebly thrown at them, unlike Balbir Singh Sodhi; as long as you don't pick up the phone to hear that your friend's first responder cousin was unaccounted for. He was, some weeks later, accounted for.
It also marked the day that the house in which I grew up was suddenly adorned with American flags, because my father, a 20-year naturalized resident in a quiet suburb, became afraid that his neighbors would suddenly turn on him. A month or so later, I would hear him cry over the phone that he could not be at his mother's deathbed, because the planes were not safe for him.
My relationship to this day might be kind of different than yours. I wish I were able to say that it is different than a lot of other people. I hope it isn't completely different, though, because Jupiter is really good and you should listen to it.
posted by Errant at 5:05 AM on September 12, 2014 [21 favorites]
It also marked the day that I discovered that hiding out under the covers with a very nice and also terrified Sikh girl while listening to Cave In's album Jupiter on repeat is not too bad, as long as you stop jumping every time there's a knock on the door; as long as her parents check in via unstable phone lines to say that they're fine, they've only had things feebly thrown at them, unlike Balbir Singh Sodhi; as long as you don't pick up the phone to hear that your friend's first responder cousin was unaccounted for. He was, some weeks later, accounted for.
It also marked the day that the house in which I grew up was suddenly adorned with American flags, because my father, a 20-year naturalized resident in a quiet suburb, became afraid that his neighbors would suddenly turn on him. A month or so later, I would hear him cry over the phone that he could not be at his mother's deathbed, because the planes were not safe for him.
My relationship to this day might be kind of different than yours. I wish I were able to say that it is different than a lot of other people. I hope it isn't completely different, though, because Jupiter is really good and you should listen to it.
posted by Errant at 5:05 AM on September 12, 2014 [21 favorites]
if we as a country could stop celebrating the day, that would be awesome.
Yesterday should be about commemoration, in the sense of observation and memorialization, not about the jingoists and chickenhawks and truthers and their ilk promoting their own agendas.
Never let them hijack it.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:23 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yesterday should be about commemoration, in the sense of observation and memorialization, not about the jingoists and chickenhawks and truthers and their ilk promoting their own agendas.
Never let them hijack it.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:23 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
It's a pretty interesting reflection on 9/11, though it seems Twitter is not really designed for this purpose and the contents are kind of shoehorned in.
For a somewhat lighter satiric look at how that social 'network observed yesterday, stand-up comedian Joe Mande has been retweeting how corporate Twitter accounts of assorted brands took a break from their usual shilling to incongruous remember 9/11, e.g. Cinnabon, Dunkin Donuts, Fleshlight, SUBWAY Restaurants, Target, Ticketmaster, and many, many more.
This country needs its own version of Private Eye for times like this...
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:49 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
For a somewhat lighter satiric look at how that social 'network observed yesterday, stand-up comedian Joe Mande has been retweeting how corporate Twitter accounts of assorted brands took a break from their usual shilling to incongruous remember 9/11, e.g. Cinnabon, Dunkin Donuts, Fleshlight, SUBWAY Restaurants, Target, Ticketmaster, and many, many more.
This country needs its own version of Private Eye for times like this...
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:49 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
You know what? Ari Fleischer and the entire Bush Administration are absolutely culpable for misleading the nation and starting an apparently never-ending war.
And these tweets and Fleicher's notes from the day are important historical documents and offer an insight into the emotional state of those in power on that day. They're interesting, and there's some new information in them.
They were a bunch of meatheaded warmongers. And Fleischer actually did something worthwhile with his twitter account yesterday. These things can be true at the same time.
posted by MeanwhileBackAtTheRanch at 8:47 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
And these tweets and Fleicher's notes from the day are important historical documents and offer an insight into the emotional state of those in power on that day. They're interesting, and there's some new information in them.
They were a bunch of meatheaded warmongers. And Fleischer actually did something worthwhile with his twitter account yesterday. These things can be true at the same time.
posted by MeanwhileBackAtTheRanch at 8:47 AM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Except that Fleischer is cherry-picking his notes from the 11th, not making the originals available for independent public review or the historical record.
Konstantin Petrov's candid snapshots of Windows on the World from the days and weeks before make for a better way to reflect on what we lost.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:20 AM on September 12, 2014
Konstantin Petrov's candid snapshots of Windows on the World from the days and weeks before make for a better way to reflect on what we lost.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:20 AM on September 12, 2014
The ISIS beheading video is probably bogus and war propaganda.
It's obviously war propaganda.
I don't see why it's "probably" bogus. Nothing about capturing a war correspondent and executing him in front of a camera is unworkable.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:22 AM on September 12, 2014
It's obviously war propaganda.
I don't see why it's "probably" bogus. Nothing about capturing a war correspondent and executing him in front of a camera is unworkable.
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:22 AM on September 12, 2014
He isn't actually executed in front of the camera, unlike some beheading videos. He also isn't porno-tortured before death, and nobody is heard actually wise-cracking about it.
posted by colie at 9:47 AM on September 12, 2014
posted by colie at 9:47 AM on September 12, 2014
The production values are also pretty high for these kinds of videos.
ISIS just signed a treaty with the 'good' Syrian rebels. The anti-Assad faction the west ostensibly supports. I'm looking forward to some nice cogdisso in the coming months.
posted by clarknova at 7:36 PM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
ISIS just signed a treaty with the 'good' Syrian rebels. The anti-Assad faction the west ostensibly supports. I'm looking forward to some nice cogdisso in the coming months.
posted by clarknova at 7:36 PM on September 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
The West are already talking to Iran. Outside of a one-step intermediary process, that's basically negotiating with Assad.
posted by jaduncan at 3:03 AM on September 13, 2014
posted by jaduncan at 3:03 AM on September 13, 2014
Where's My Pet Goat?
Ari Fleischer mentioned it here and here and here.
posted by John Cohen at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2014
Ari Fleischer mentioned it here and here and here.
posted by John Cohen at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2014
Also see Sean Bonner's and Mike Monteiro's tweets on brands commemorating 9/11
That reminds me of this Onion classic.
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on September 14, 2014
That reminds me of this Onion classic.
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on September 14, 2014
There's also this, makes for a good companion piece. Recently declassified first-person account of the day from Michael Morell, the President's intel debriefer ... the same guy that walked Bush through the 'Bin Laden determined to strike in US' PDB in August. Captures the lightning-quick unfolding and slow-dawning horror-movie realisation of the day pretty well: one plane two four jesus what the hell else is coming?
posted by bookie at 5:46 AM on September 24, 2014
posted by bookie at 5:46 AM on September 24, 2014
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America, the land of "never forget" and the inevitable Post Traumatic Stress Disorder of the nation.
posted by edgeways at 3:30 PM on September 11, 2014 [17 favorites]