Comments on: Comments on 14286

Post number 14286

fujikosmurf — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:14:36 -0800

Jesus at 250 feet. Tom Monaghan, best known as the owner of Domino's Pizza, wants to build a 25 story high crucifix on his Ann Arbor, MI property. Is this a monument to religion or a really tacky roadsign?

By: insomnyuk

insomnyuk — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:29:58 -0800

Both. If it was literally standing right beside a road, or in between two roads, it would look horrible, but I am curious to see how it would look in the context of its location (a university). After all, Notre Dame has 'Touch Down Jesus.' It would be nice for a change if we undertook in the U.S. the occasional 'big architectural project', since the current American architectural milieu is dominated by Wal-Mart style buildings and strip malls.

By: Doug

Doug — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:41:52 -0800

Each hand will be a massive, spouting fountain (colored red, of course), which I feel adds a touch of class. The article also mentions that the statue will be anatomically correct, and from the dimensions it gives for his package, it's no wonder he has so many followers.

By: McBain

McBain — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:44:59 -0800

Didn't this guy start the "Promise Keepers"? Re: Why I never buy Domino's Pizza.

By: crasspastor

crasspastor — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 23:53:11 -0800

That is tacky. The extent true believers will go to flex the mightiness of their cause. Blowin' up Buddhas and buildin' up Jesii.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:15:11 -0800

All crosses, and especially the corpse-laden crucifixes, are really tacky road signs. (Maybe the next messiah will have people wearing and kissing little gas chambers, or maybe electric chairs, smoking cadaver optional.)

By: Dreama

Dreama — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:18:17 -0800

If you've ever been to Rio and had a chance to see the Christ the Redeemer statue in person, you know that it is really big, really imposing, and really daunting, and it's standing alone, not in the middle of a city. A crucifix twice the size? Ouch. I think I have to agree with Patricia Blom, quoted in the article: "I'm a Methodist, but this will offend people in this multireligious area." There are a lot of Christians who are offended by crucifixes. While I certainly wouldn't argue with a large crucifix as a centerpiece or focal point of the campus of a Catholic university, this goes beyond what the public should have to deal with.

By: transona5

transona5 — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:26:59 -0800

I live in Ann Arbor, and I can't say I have a huge problem with this. It would be pretty far out of the city, in an area I've never even had occasion to go to. I was much more annoyed when I lived in Chicago and they put that enormous glittering Ferris Wheel right on the lakefront.

By: aaronshaf

aaronshaf — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:30:34 -0800

Those poor people. A symbol of the ultimate act of love.

By: canoeguide

canoeguide — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 00:34:18 -0800

I can think of worse things to have in my backyard. N.I.M.B.Y.

By: mlinksva

mlinksva — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 01:09:08 -0800

Hilarious. Looks like the Sears Tower with a crucifix on top. Gotta love them pretend cannibals. Will the (really) big J be whitewashed or have strong semetic features, that's the important thing. No, the really important thing is that xtians will spend more of their money providing tacky entertainment for the masses. Hope locals get the construction work. It's a jobs program, a faith-based jobs program!

By: Bixby23

Bixby23 — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 01:42:06 -0800

Part of one December installment of "This American Life" contains a segment on the huge cross in Groom, Texas (mentioned in the above story). Real Audio link is here.

By: Gamecat

Gamecat — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:13:42 -0800

I can't help it, but whenever I see something like this I always think immediately of Bill Hicks: "You think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see another f**king cross?" I do have a soft spot for sculpture on a grand scale, but this seems to be less about the sculpture itself than about "mine is bigger than yours".

By: crasspastor

crasspastor — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 02:23:43 -0800

God said it. I believe it. That settles it.

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 03:37:02 -0800

So you don't like the sculpture ....frankly all my crosses are empty, as Jesus is now resurrected, but that is not the point. It is a minor point, but could you separate the art criticism from your disdain for Jesus Christ and His followers? I too cringe at tacky religious art....but you can have taste without being disrespectful, you know.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:08:26 -0800

Aren't there zoning laws that either must be met or do allow for such things? In many areas of this and other countries what you can and can not do is regulated so that one's private likes are not thrust upon the public under the name of freedom of this or that. What if I were to put up a huge statue of a naked woman, some 15 stories tall. Would that be ok?

By: benjh

benjh — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:07:39 -0800

Oh look. I'm never buying a Domino's pizza again. (Ok, truth be told, I never buy their nasty pizza anyways.)

By: digital_insomnia

digital_insomnia — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:42:08 -0800

Well, it wouldn't be the area's first large roadsign, nor it's tackiest.

By: rodii

rodii — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 05:46:22 -0800

This will never happen. Monahan has had a number of grandiose projects over the years, some cool, some not. Most never bear fruit, and several have been fought to a standstill by his neighbors (which include me). Some random comments on the thread: insomnyuk: but I am curious to see how it would look in the context of its location (a university). This is miles from the real university, on the campus of Domino's Farms [aerial view], Monahan's Frank Lloyd Wright-inspired office complex. Domino's Farms is a mix of the inspired (the main buildings themselves, the petting farm), the weird (a huge congeries of towers, barns and crucifixes, a buffalo herd, one of the world's largest displays of Christmas lights (three million of the damn things) and the scary (bewimpled nuns everywhere, sinister security guys cruising around the back roads in jeeps). Ave Maria, the "university" and law school M. is starting, is shoestring operation, right now located in a couple recycled buildings left behind by, respectively, a business school and the National Sanitation Foundation. Not really comparable to Notre Dame at all. Didn't this guy start the "Promise Keepers"? No. He's more a Word of God type. But he is a major contributor to pro-life causes and a hugely polarizing figure in A², for many reasons, including his propensity for grandiose, tacky projects like this one, his intense involvement with Catholic-oriented right-wing organizations, his weird ideas about the impending Armageddon, and his running of the Detroit Tigers into the ground during his ownership.

By: Dagobert

Dagobert — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:27:37 -0800

If you've ever been to Rio and had a chance to see the Christ the Redeemer statue in person Unless I'm sadly mistaken, Lisbon, Portugal has a Huge Statue of Jesus also. The Twin/Brother of the Brazialina one, although I don't know which one was erected first. Intesting note; the span of the arms is equal to the height of the statue. It is a bit daunting. My big concern is those eyes, those piercing eyes following me everywhere. _{What? Something about Portual and I beat Miguel to it? Wasusp wit dat?}

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:31:33 -0800

Both. But what do you expect from someone responsible for the blight which is Domino's Pizza.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:49:45 -0800

It is a minor point, but could you separate the art criticism from your disdain for Jesus Christ and His followers? Since one directly affects the other, no.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:55:17 -0800

McBain, et al.: Monaghan sold his 90%+ interest in Domino's a few years ago. The company never directly support pro-life organizations or, they say, "any political party". In any event, you can now safely buy from Domino's knowing that you will not be indirectly enriching a man who supports a political issue on the other side from yourself, which is good news for all the frustrated Domino's franchise-owners who faced campus boycotts during the 1980s. (I was back at my dorm in the 90s and found a letter posted from the local store essentially begging students not to blame them for Monaghan's politics.) As for Promise Keepers, that's essentially a Protestant, born-again type of group, although I think they permit any Christian to join. Monaghan, however, is a Catholic.

By: thewittyname

thewittyname — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:04:42 -0800

In Denver, at night, when you look west into the Rocky Mountains, you can see a huge cross of lights displayed on the side of Mt. Lindo, of the foothill mountains. I've never been anywhere close to it, but it must be huge. It is easily spotted twenty-five miles away on a clear day. That being said, I've always hated that damn thing. I don't feel its right for anyone (in this case a mortuary company) to put up a religious symbol so large, it is really inescapable (not to mention just how visually obnoxious lit-up corsses are to begin with.) And, religious imagry of this scale is always Christian, which perhaps along with Judaism, is the only religion that could try and get away with something like this and still be seen as respectable. Imagine if someone tried to put a huge lit pentagram on the side of a hill, or a 250 foot Buddha by a highway. I'm not trying to Jesus-bash. I respect religion and everyone's right to it, but down-in-front, you know? (PS: Promise Keepers was founded by Bill McCartney, former head coach of the University of Colorado football team, and a born Catholic who converted in college to a born-again system of belief.)

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:05:29 -0800

For the record, I always order Papa John's......

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:10:50 -0800

oh-wait a minute-it finally hit me-if they would find a way to drop the statue in a giant vat of urine -then it would turn into first amentment-protected ART!!!!!!

By: rodii

rodii — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:19:18 -0800

And, religious imagry of this scale is always Christian, I guess it depends on what you mean by "imagery". There might be a few mosques, or Borobodur, or Bhuvaneshvara, or a giant Buddha here or there, that would qualify. But not really in the US, I agree. Imagine if someone tried to put a huge lit pentagram on the side of a hill, or a 250 foot Buddha by a highway. Especially in Afghanistan. PS: I did forget about a possible Monahan/Promise Keepers connection, which is that before Bill McCartney was head coach at Colorado, he was a longtime assistant at Michigan, and he and Monahan undoubtedly knew each other. I've never hear of any explicit connection, but I'd bet they've discussed their religious activism on occasion.

By: rodii

rodii — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:19:58 -0800

Bunnyfire: what a stupid comment. *shakes head in disbelief*

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:22:46 -0800

> oh-wait a minute... I'd pay to see that, especially if the urinals at the viewing platform and snack bar were directly connected to the giant vat.

By: caveday

caveday — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:42:14 -0800

In Spain, Francisco Franco built a huge monument to himself in the Valle de los Caídos. This includes a 150m tall cross which is visible from miles away.

By: MJoachim

MJoachim — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:45:10 -0800

This is almost as sad as that gigantic Buddha statue someone wants to build in one of the poorest areas in India. All those folks wearing "What Would Jesus Do" bracelets, I wonder what they think of this crucifix idea. Does this rich prick think Jesus would wanna blow those millions on a big symbol or instead spend them on caring for the poor, building some schools, some homeless shelters, or something useful?

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:54:19 -0800

Mjoachim, thank you. Finally a sensible critical comment.

By: yesster

yesster — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:54:36 -0800

Wasn't there a commandment or something about graven images? Or was that one of the optional commandments?

By: syscom

syscom — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:57:28 -0800

Wow...that's the biggest compensation for inadequacy I've seen in .. *looks out window at CN Tower* ... hmmm.

By: thewittyname

thewittyname — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:31:31 -0800

oh-wait a minute-it finally hit me-if they would find a way to drop the statue in a giant vat of urine -then it would turn into first amentment-protected ART!!!!!! No no, the first amendment protects that other tall Jesus. But seriously, only if the government were trying to ban the statue, would the first amendment come into play. I don't think anyone said that Mr Monaghan does not have the right to flaunt his money building a huge replica of a Roman execution. Regardless, tank of uric acid or no, this statue is a horrible idea from many points of view: artistically, communally, and even religiously as MJoachim points out very well. If this guy was truly poius, instead of being ego-driven (which is what this idea sounds like), then all of the money going into that statue would be feeding the hungry and housing the homeless. But I guess Mr. Monaghan feels that Ann Arbor really needs a 250 ft Jesus. "If I only had a brain..."

By: Foosnark

Foosnark — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:33:14 -0800

Only 27.7% of the height of MC 900 Foot Jesus. How disappointing.

By: dwivian

dwivian — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:41:30 -0800

yesster: Yup....says that we can't make any form of sculpture at all. And, we shouldn't worship them, either. So..... No more sculpture, for any reason. We're well on our way to Islamic culture, now! That's not being snarky -- the Muslim rules are very picky about sculpture and engraving, which is why they use painting of arabic instead of images of "anything in heaven, on the earth, or under the earth."

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:52:16 -0800

there were angel sculptures on top of the ark of the Covenant. Don't be overreligious. The Bible specifically named one guy as being gifted in artistic crafts and stuff while they were building one of the temples(right now I forget which, may have been Solomon's).... In those days people were in the nasty habit of carving false gods then worshiping them. If you want to get the idea of what it was like go to Thailand. There is literally an idol on every corner. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes. In fact there is even a statue of Queen Victoria that was brought over there, and after a few years, people started draping flowers over it and lighting incense to IT. If you want a nice sculpture for your garden for decoration ,let us say a nice garden bunny, God has no problem with it. Just don't start burning incense to it and bringing it burnt carrot offerings.

By: StOne

StOne — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:59:05 -0800

Intesting note; the span of the arms is equal to the height of the statue. Well, yes. If you measure your own outstretched armspan, fingertip to fingertip, it should be just about equal to your height. And, unlike Rodii, I thought Bunnyfire's Mapplethorpe reference was clever. *grins irreverently* (Disclaimer: I didn't think "Piss Christ" itself was clever; not even sure it was ART. It certainly isn't in the same league as the Cistine Chapel ceiling or "The Last Supper." But he certainly provoked a reaction; in my case it was merely "SFW.")

By: croutonsupafreak

croutonsupafreak — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:31:57 -0800

Anybody ever hear of something called the Tower of Babel?

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:34:01 -0800

"Piss Christ" wasn't Mapplethorpe's. It was by Andres Serrano.

By: Kafkaesque

Kafkaesque — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:48:59 -0800

I've always appreciated the Mary and Jesus statue at The Crystal Cathedral, to which I am in close proximity. It's Mary holding a Jesus that's 100% chrome plated. I can't decide if it looks more like some Harley guy went crazy at the chrome-shop, or that atomic bomb worship thing from Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

By: sudama

sudama — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:50:17 -0800

In those days people were in the nasty habit of carving false gods then worshiping them. If you want to get the idea of what it was like go to Thailand. There is literally an idol on every corner. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes. Bunnyfire, please tell me you honestly believe that Buddhists worship statues and believe in a god.

By: daveadams

daveadams — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:58:41 -0800

In fact there is even a statue of Queen Victoria that was brought over there, and after a few years, people started draping flowers over it and lighting incense to IT. Gasp! GOD FORBID!!! Oh, wait, he already has. Sorry. :) this goes beyond what the public should have to deal with The only legal issue here is whether the height restriction may be changed for this tower. If it is offensive to Christians or non-Christians should not be an issue here in the least. if they would find a way to drop the statue in a giant vat of urine -then it would turn into first amentment-protected ART!!!!!! Like Rodii said, this argument is just plain dumb. It's irrelevant to the issues in this case. Not to mention the fact that all expression, not just "art" is protected by the first amendment.

By: modge

modge — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:22:55 -0800

in upper michigan, there's a great statue of Bishop Baraga - six stories high and sporting 26 foot long snowshoes!

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:40:53 -0800

Strict buddhists do not believe in a god. Folk buddhists believe in spirits behind every bush-or to be more technical, IN every bush, most likely. They are constantly placating spirits. Actually, here in NC, there is a spirit house within walking distance of my home. It is connected with a building that used to house a Thai restaurant before the restaurant moved across town.

By: sudama

sudama — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:16:24 -0800

Bunny: you don't believe in spirits?

By: Kafkaesque

Kafkaesque — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:21:56 -0800

The spirit of Nasi Goreng? I always knew that stuff lingered. But I kid. What's a spirit house?

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:11:26 -0800

Sure I do. I have a different name for them, and I do not worship them. A spirit house is a tiny house (on a pole)that is built outside , complete with tiny items inside, to keep the spirit of the property happy-and outside of the people's home, where it could make mischief or worse. Every piece of property in Thailand has them-including hotels, parking lots, and such....Some are extremely elaborate. There are rules about where they are put-I forget what they are,it has been awhile since I have been in Thailand.......but people over there take them very seriously.

By: NortonDC

NortonDC — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:11:55 -0800

Inspired by yesster's question about optional commandments: Which version of the Ten Commandments do you mean? And the first line of the front page post* sounds like a dueling challenge to me: "Jesus at 250 feet." *avoiding the dreaded TLA

By: sudama

sudama — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 12:49:36 -0800

I am reasonably certain that the Thai Buddhists are not worshipping bushes in the way that Jesus would not want them to, if that is any consolation.

By: bunnyfire

bunnyfire — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:11:41 -0800

If I had a scanner I could show you a picture of a tree they had draped in scarves....we were warned not to touch it as it was considered sacred. I believe it was a bodhi tree....humonguous tree too. I better stop now...the mefi police will get me for being chatty....

rodii — Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:13:47 -0800

Does the pope shit in the woods?