Comments on: Comments on 14290

Post number 14290

asok — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:53:52 -0800

Lisa Gier King - 'clearly willing and consensual sexual intercourse'

'Yahraus has consistently maintained that his sexual relations with King were consensual, a view shared by the police, the state attorney's office and the court'

or institutional misogyny?
Difficult to comment without seeing the film. Will releasing this film help either case? Hard to find anything online from the alternative viewpoint

By: jfuller

jfuller — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:20:42 -0800

> Will releasing this film help either case? What you said -- difficult to comment without seeing the film. Whatever the facts and circumstances of this particular case, it remains true that there are degrees of heinousness in not-entirely-consensual sex just as there are (well recognized) degrees of heinousness in killing. In the end these degrees will have to be recognized in law. As it is now there's only the two alternatives, what you might call "rape 1," (unconsensual sex, by force or fear, with an utterly unwilling victim) and "nothing bad happened, go on home." If that were the case with homicide law you would have many people who have actually committed second-degree murder or manslaughter going free because a jury refuses to convict them of first-degree murder, and the only alternative is to turn them loose. Likewise in the case of sexual conduct we see people who actually did something bad, but not bad enough to get a conviction on Rape 1, going unpunished because there's no charge and punishment that fits the crime.

By: magullo

magullo — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 07:21:50 -0800

From the "alternative viewpoint" material: "The judge decided they should watch what they'd all done to teach them a lesson." Now that's nearly as sharp as interviewing the suspects as a group (we don't wan't to get contradictory stories, do we?). But not as sharp as dropping the charge of filing a false police report yet not prosecuting the acts reported.

By: goneill

goneill — Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:26:02 -0800

i've read that over 50 percent of 'gang rapes' occur in fraternities. Did you notice how the Manchester Guardian piece details the process of legitimizing the documentary, "In the UK it is an offence to publish any matters which are likely to lead to the identification of a rape complainant. " In the US that isn't the case, if you are filmed during a rape, the film is still be a part of the public discourse ie. it belongs to the filmer, and you do not have the right to curtail his right to free speach by claiming the right to privacy. (He can go to jail for being an accomplice to rape, but the film is still his.)

By: asok

asok — Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:11:43 -0800

thanks for your thoughts, i have watched the film, and am not sure i can reccomend it unless you are very strong minded. or you are into snuff films involving sexual torture, in which case i suggest that you report forthwith to some form of counsellor. (attempt at gallows humour) the boys still deny a rape took place, but judging by some of his body language, i'd say marzullo understands what happened. yarhaus comes accross as a sociopath, i quote 'the most consensual sex i have ever had'. the best outcome would be that these people realised the inhumanity of their actions, which i imagine might cause them to become campaigners for a change in the law, maybe to include a better understanding of what constitutes rape. lisa was trying to be strong, but unfortunately found out that some men still think it is acceptable to use their superior bulk to bludgeon a woman into a submissive role.