For ye said, that he said, that I said, wote ye what?
October 7, 2014 2:56 PM   Subscribe

 
Oh, this is a brilliant website! It really opened Skelton up to me. He was always something of a blank spot on my inner map of English literature.
posted by Kattullus at 3:09 PM on October 7, 2014


So in Middle English the always pronounced the last "e" in stuff like date, fate, bake? That's weird.
posted by nooneyouknow at 3:14 PM on October 7, 2014


Cryst save Kyng Henry the viii., our royall kyng,

Skelton in the reign of Henry the VIII, Shakespeare in his daughter's seems like an awfully big change in so short a time.
posted by jamjam at 3:26 PM on October 7, 2014


Skelton in the reign of Henry the VIII, Shakespeare in his daughter's seems like an awfully big change in so short a time.

Skelton was at the very tail end of Middle English; Shakespeare towards the beginning of Modern English. What happened between them? The printing press. It arrived in England in 1476, and led to the standardization of what became Early Modern English.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:38 PM on October 7, 2014 [4 favorites]


So in Middle English the always pronounced the last "e" in stuff like date, fate, bake? That's weird.
It explains the spelling of them, though?
posted by linux at 3:47 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]


Skelton was at the very tail end of Middle English; Shakespeare towards the beginning of Modern English. What happened between them? The printing press. It arrived in England in 1476, and led to the standardization of what became Early Modern English.

What's great is that future generations are maybe going to have trouble reading things written in the 20th century and before, because grammatical structure in English is shifting around so much, because Internet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:02 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]


What's great is that future generations are maybe going to have trouble reading things written in the 20th century and before, because grammatical structure in English is shifting around so much, because Internet.

"Joey Michaels work was at the end of of the LOLCat period and just before the beginning of Doge."
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:48 PM on October 7, 2014 [8 favorites]


I just traced some of my ancestors all the way back to the 1300s (!!!!) in england, granted I can't believe record keeping was very accurate then but I was amazed anyone even could hazard a guess. So now I can listen to this and think about what my ancestors were talking like while walking suffolk england. And looking at paintings of people in the middle ages! YAY this is really cool, what a treasure!! Thanks for sharing.
posted by xarnop at 4:48 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]


A football player and a poet. Not bad.
posted by gyc at 5:20 PM on October 7, 2014


Héahgeweorc.
posted by blob at 5:29 PM on October 7, 2014


This was really fun! Thanks!
posted by chatongriffes at 5:31 PM on October 7, 2014


Terrific. I've enjoyed Skelton, but never heard him read. The reader did a great job of swerving in and out of the sondry tonges. Any thoughts on not using the hard "c," etc., for his Latin?
posted by the sobsister at 6:11 PM on October 7, 2014


Modernised spelling:

PARROT

My name is Parrot, a bird of Paradise,
By Nature devised of a wondrous kind,
Daintily dieted with diverse delicate spice,
'Til Euphrates, that flood, drives me into Ind';
Where men of that country by fortune me find,
And send me to great ladies of estate;
Then Parrot must have an almond or a date.

A cage curiously carven, with silver pins,
Properly painted, to be my covering;
A mirror of glass, that I may tout therein;
These maidens full meekly with many a diverse flower
Freshly they dress, and make sweet my bower,
With, ‘Speak, Parrot, I pray you,’ full courteously they say;
‘Parrot is a goodly bird, a pretty popinjay.’

With my beak bent, my little wanton eye,
My feathers fresh as is the emerald green,
About my neck a circlet like the rich ruby,
My little legs, my feet both fit and clean,
I am a minion to wait upon a queen;
‘My proper Parrot, my little pretty fool.’

posted by Joe in Australia at 6:18 PM on October 7, 2014 [2 favorites]


I can't help wondering what species this fine and well-spoken Parott was. Ring-necked parakeet, maybe?
posted by Lexica at 8:50 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]


An almon for Stycherbeste.
posted by Segundus at 10:49 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]


I can't help wondering what species this fine and well-spoken Parott was. Ring-necked parakeet, maybe?

Cardinal lory.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:29 PM on October 7, 2014


To my Norwegian ears this sounds closer to Scandinavian than modern English does. It's not hard to understand at all.
posted by Harald74 at 11:53 PM on October 7, 2014 [1 favorite]


> Any thoughts on not using the hard "c," etc., for his Latin?

Nobody used hard c at the time; even Erasmus, who advocated restoration of accurate classical pronunciation at exactly this period (early 16th century) and made two trips to England to propagate his views, seems not to have used his own pronunciation, according to Sidney Allen's Vox Latina: A Guide to the Pronunciation of Classical Latin (which I recommend to anyone interested in the topic). In 1540 John Cheke was appointed as the first Regius Professor of Greek at Cambridge and tried to reform both Greek and Latin pronunciation, but the chancellor of the university, Stephen Gardiner, "in 1542 published an edict specifically forbidding the new pronunciation of either language." Around 1870 "a new reformed pronunciation of classical Latin was formulated by various Cambridge and Oxford scholars," but it took a while to catch on: "Even as late as 1939 The Times saw fit to suppress a letter against the old pronunciation by the Kennedy Professor of Latin at Cambridge." There's a useful summary of traditional pronunciation here.

I especially enjoyed the parrot's rendition of foreign languages; it reminded me of John Tzetzes's epilogue to his Theogony, in which he shows off his ability to make conversation in many tongues ("When I embrace a Scythian I accost him in such a way:/ 'Good day, my lady, good day, my lord:/ Salamalek alti, salamalek altugep'..."); you can see a fully annotated version here.
posted by languagehat at 7:33 AM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]


nooneyouknow: So in Middle English the always pronounced the last "e" in stuff like date, fate, bake? That's weird.
No, not always. Often, prior to the mid-14th century. Less often later one. Often, in the north of England. Less often further South. Almost always in poetry (which we're discussing), for the same reason that many 19th and 20th-century poets rhymed "rain" with "again".

But in 1415 England, King Harry almost certainly asked for his cake with a single syllable.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:34 AM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]


But in 1415 England , King Harry almost certainly asked for his cake with a single syllable.

"Oi!"
posted by Segundus at 9:53 AM on October 8, 2014 [4 favorites]


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