Congratulations! Now You're Both Jerks!
October 10, 2014 9:07 AM   Subscribe

How To Correct A Date About Nerd Knowledge: A Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Comic
posted by Navelgazer (134 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite
 
A way to solve this is to only date people who are rabidly interested in knowing all of the things.
posted by phunniemee at 9:12 AM on October 10, 2014 [10 favorites]


this is why I don't go on dates with people who are passionate about the minutiae of media franchises
posted by threeants at 9:13 AM on October 10, 2014 [17 favorites]


Dude, the claws are also a mutant power. The adamantium coating was added later. I mean, come on.
posted by absalom at 9:20 AM on October 10, 2014 [26 favorites]


I thought Jean Grey's power was suffocating people with her thighs during sex...?
posted by doctornecessiter at 9:21 AM on October 10, 2014 [8 favorites]


I mean obviously the right answer is get up and leave, because what kind of idiot wants doofy metal claws instead of shapeshifting abilities, how is he going to provide for a family, those go inside his body and are so unsanitary, etc.
posted by almostmanda at 9:23 AM on October 10, 2014 [7 favorites]




I laughed.
posted by echocollate at 9:26 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Maybe I'm crazy, but I could have sworn that when I was a kid, the adamantium claws were an add-on facilitated by Wolverine's healing power, added on at the same time as the rest of his bones. But according to Wikipedia that origin story was never officially published, so I have no idea where the hell I learned it from.
posted by muddgirl at 9:28 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


The Phoenix force is also, modulo recons, the ultimate expression of Jean's mutation, certainly in the first intention, and in some of the later iterations. Dude's arguably correct, going on just the first run.

....I guess I'd rather be a bit of a jerk than leave a partner in jeopardy.
posted by bonehead at 9:29 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


but I could have sworn that when I was a kid, the adamantium claws were an add-on facilitated by Wolverine's healing power

I also thoguht this! Was this a plotline in one of the older movies?
posted by leesh at 9:31 AM on October 10, 2014


X-Men Origins, I think.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:32 AM on October 10, 2014


I only go by the creator's original intent and do not believe in retcons.

Therefore, Wolverine is an actual, mutated wolverine, and the *correct* description of his mutant powers is that he walks and talks like a human.
posted by kyrademon at 9:33 AM on October 10, 2014 [36 favorites]


The claws were part of the mutant powerset, the adamantium coating on the otherwise bone claws (and coating on the entire skeleton) is facilitated by his healing factor. Otherwise he'd die of blood poisoning or some such. His other powers were enhanced senses. At the moment, Wolverine does not have a healing factor (still has the claws, enhanced senses, and adamantium skeleton), and I believe there is a subplot of him basically having to take medicine to deal with that.

I also think that in the mid-90s, when his adamantium was removed by Magneto, his healing factor, no longer having to constantly deal with the adamantium, went into overdrive and made him bestial.
posted by X-Himy at 9:35 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Dude, the claws are also a mutant power. The adamantium coating was added later. I mean, come on.

Yeah, right? I was genuinely surprised that the protagonist's oversight was not dealt with in the comic. "The claws aren't a mutant power" is the "glass is a liquid" of the comics world.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:36 AM on October 10, 2014


Yes I do not care for Wolverine's claws.

The way to handle this conversation is thusly:

"Oh, yeah, I would love to have claws" or "No, I would not want to have claws because [reasons]" or "oh, no, I totally loathe Wolverine" or "yeah, I'm super interested in clawed characters - have you ever read [either Neuromancer or The Female Man depending on your audience] - I always wonder if [Sally/Jael] was at all inspired by Wolverine".

It's just like solving a math problem that includes extraneous information. The extraneous bit is "this is a mutant power"; the meat of the conversation is "what kind of cool post-human superhero ability would you like". Focus on the meat of the conversation, returning only later if needed to the question of just what a mutant power really is.
posted by Frowner at 9:37 AM on October 10, 2014 [16 favorites]


Dude, the claws are also a mutant power. The adamantium coating was added later. I mean, come on.

Wasn't this a retcon?
posted by nooneyouknow at 9:39 AM on October 10, 2014


A way to solve this is to only date people who are rabidly interested in knowing all of the things.

Yeah, my main reaction to the comic was "ooh, I didn't know that about Wolverine, cool!"
posted by capricorn at 9:41 AM on October 10, 2014


This thread reminds me why I haven't gone on a date in 3 years.
posted by glhaynes at 9:48 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Wolverine's confusing origin and what his powers really were is described pretty well in the Wikipedia entry. He was a bit player originally, and not really well defined. What the claws were wasn't clear, not until about a year or so after his introduction, when they were made part of him.

The modern version, the one in the movies, comes from a 2001 retcon called Origin. But he's sort of Wolverine 2.0. The evolved wolverine explanation never made it out of beta and into the actual comics, as far as I know.
posted by bonehead at 9:50 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


This thread is so much nerdier than the comic.

I love you, MetaFilter.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:54 AM on October 10, 2014 [15 favorites]


Focus on the meat of the conversation, returning only later if needed to the question of just what a mutant power really is.

Well sure, if you're talking to typical folks. Kinda misses the point of nerd conversations though.

If your intention on the date is a detail/generalist litmus test, it's hard to imagine a better one than a classic nerd troll. After all, are you silently judging your blind date with conversational traps or are you just trying to make conversation here?
posted by bonehead at 9:56 AM on October 10, 2014


> "The evolved wolverine explanation never made it out of beta and into the actual comics, as far as I know."

The very Wikipedia article you link to refers to X-Men #103. Wolverine says he does not believe in leprechauns, to which the leprechaun replies, "Maybe leprechauns don't believe in talkin' wolverines, either."

And in case you don't think the leprechauns know what they're talking about, they also know Wolverine's real name is Logan, the first time that name has ever been mentioned. The full conversation is, in fact:

Leprechaun: I think I c'n help ye there, Mr. Logan.
Wolverine: Huh?!? Who the blazes are you, Bub? And how do you know my name?
Leprechaun: I'm called Padraic, mate -- an' we little people know a lot o' things.
Wolverine: No way, Bub. This wolverine don't believe in leprechauns.
Leprechaun: Suit yourself. Maybe leprechauns don't believe in talkin' wolverines, either.

It is, in fact, canon.
posted by kyrademon at 9:59 AM on October 10, 2014 [8 favorites]


"yeah, I'm super interested in clawed characters - have you ever read [either Neuromancer or The Female Man depending on your audience] - I always wonder if [Sally/Jael] was at all inspired by Wolverine".

MOLLY HER NAME IS MOLLY MOLLY MILLIONS SHE DOESN'T GO BY SALLY SHEARS UNTIL MLO I DON'T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANY MORE PLEASE OH LORD SEND CHICXULUB II: THE CHICXULUBING TO CLEANSE THIS MADNESS
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:00 AM on October 10, 2014 [20 favorites]


scannersheadexplosion.gif
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:01 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


What? What? What? This comic is insane. One does not EVER pass up a chance to talk about the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak!

I mean, you're only going to have two or three chances in your life...
posted by bswinburn at 10:05 AM on October 10, 2014 [10 favorites]


Isn't the correct response to take it as a warning sign that your date would choose indestructible claws to rip people apart with over being able to fly or predict the future or whatever?
posted by Vulgar Euphemism at 10:11 AM on October 10, 2014 [4 favorites]


avoiding arguments with my dates is such a high priority that i would never correct a date's assertion about a superhero.
posted by bruce at 10:11 AM on October 10, 2014


Thanks, Xenophobe. I was just scrolling down here to say exactly that.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:12 AM on October 10, 2014


I like the characterization in Mona Lisa Overdrive much better than in Neuromancer. I think of her as Sally all the time, sorry.
posted by Frowner at 10:15 AM on October 10, 2014


"oh, no, I totally loathe Wolverine"

This is the correct response to all conversations about Wolverine. If I were on a date with someone who wanted stupid claws instead of being able to control the weather or teleport or be a powerful telepath, the argument would be about them being an idiot, not whether or not the claws are a mutation.

I come down on the side of you not being required to explain the origin of the Juggernauts powers because having to explain that shit in public should never be a requirement for anyone.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:17 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


I mean obviously the right answer is get up and leave, because what kind of idiot wants doofy metal claws instead of shapeshifting abilities, how is he going to provide for a family, those go inside his body and are so unsanitary, etc.

I'm not super familiar with the X-Men mythos but: Wasn't Deadpool created by injecting him with Wolverine's blood? And his claws are certainly going to have traces of his blood on them. So therefore, does everyone Wolverine wounds with his claws acquire a healing factor?
posted by JDHarper at 10:18 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Just imagining this as a rage comic gets my blood pressure up.
posted by michaelh at 10:18 AM on October 10, 2014


I hope we aren't going to start getting all nitpicky about stuff now.
posted by kyrademon at 10:18 AM on October 10, 2014 [11 favorites]


"I would totally want whatever the Batman has."

/excuses self to call hitman.
posted by mcrandello at 10:20 AM on October 10, 2014


Needs more Tolkien.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:21 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


avoiding arguments with my dates is such a high priority that i would never correct a date's assertion about a superhero.

It's not an argument! It's a "oh, this is a thing that interests me, too, now I have an excuse to talk about it, and oh by the way you were wrong about that thing, but it's ok because I fully expect you to call me out when I am wrong about super trivial but interesting minutiae, too."

Honestly if a dude is gonna be all butthurt about me knowing more than him about something then he's not gonna like dating me much, so better to know that before wasting time/money on a second date.

Flipside of that is that if a dude can't tell me interesting things then he's gonna bore the crap out of me and I don't want to date him, either.

Feature not a bug, etc.

I will note with distaste, however, that this comic didn't have an adventure for me. :(
posted by phunniemee at 10:21 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


"I would totally want whatever the Batman has."

/excuses self to call hitman.


Unlimited money, finely-honed physical perfection, and dead parents.

Well, two out of three ain't bad.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:22 AM on October 10, 2014 [9 favorites]


If I were on a date with someone who wanted stupid claws instead of being able to control the weather or teleport or be a powerful telepath, the argument would be about them being an idiot, not whether or not the claws are a mutation.

If I were on a date with someone who had not considered the whole matter of the nonexistence of the unified subject and the general messiness and incoherence of thinking and the fact that being a telepath would just be a horrible mess rather than tidy access to people's thoughts and memories....well, er, we'd probably spend the rest of the evening talking about our respective headcannon about telepathy, maybe throw in a little Zizek and hopefully schedule a second date.


Magneto is the best mutant, though.
posted by Frowner at 10:23 AM on October 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


If I were on a date with someone who wanted stupid claws instead of being able to control the weather or teleport or be a powerful telepath, the argument would be about them being an idiot, not whether or not the claws are a mutation.

Good because I would pick "control the weather" so I could make it snow all the time. This makes me basically 2/3s of the way to being the White Witch from The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

Jadis, as long as we're being pedantic.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:24 AM on October 10, 2014 [6 favorites]


SPOILER: Juggernaut gets his powers from a magic doohicky. The end.
posted by straight at 10:25 AM on October 10, 2014


I hope we aren't going to start getting all nitpicky about stuff now.

God I love Metafilter.
posted by Melismata at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


(Or "headcanon"...headcannon might be painful.)
posted by Frowner at 10:31 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


My wife and I have a perfect understanding, she defers to me on all things nerd while I defer to her on all things cooking, celebrity gossip, horror movies, defensive driving, how to properly clean a surface, picking up social cues, and communication on any matter not related to all things nerd. It works fine.
posted by Ber at 10:34 AM on October 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


No, having a headcannon would be the perfect mutant power.
posted by ogooglebar at 10:35 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Says you, Scott.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:36 AM on October 10, 2014 [18 favorites]


Incidentally, I feel pretty strongly that the only reason Juggernaut and Professor X are canonically brothers is because the comic needed a ~SHOCKING TWIST~ and the X-Men Universe had a total of like half a dozen characters at the time.
posted by reprise the theme song and roll the credits at 10:38 AM on October 10, 2014


*sigh*...

The only right answer to "What super power would you choose?" is shape-shifting.

Shape-shifting.

That's it. I can't process how a human being who thinks about this question for more than 20 seconds can come to a different conclusion.
posted by Poppa Bear at 10:41 AM on October 10, 2014 [8 favorites]


If I wanted to be quizzed on comic books, I'd just stay home and do online quizzes.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:42 AM on October 10, 2014


I guess this is why I like Cable the best because his mutant power is firing big guns!
posted by Apocryphon at 10:46 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Let's just pause a second and bask in the fact that Wolverine The Serious Gritty Badass had his first major backstory reveal while hanging out with fucking leprechauns. I've always loved that.
posted by COBRA! at 10:47 AM on October 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


What about shape-throwing?
posted by doctornecessiter at 10:47 AM on October 10, 2014


> If I were on a date with someone who wanted stupid claws instead of being able to control the weather or teleport or be a powerful telepath

If you can control weather or read minds, you're still vulnerable to disease, ninjas, poison, cancer, guns, fire, attack dogs, nuclear weapons. You still need sleep, food, water. You can be hurt, killed, get broken bones, have an eye put out, etc. Wolverine can and has survived that, sometimes all at once, and regenerated no problem. He's been burned down to just the (unbreakable, indestructible) skeleton and regenerated. He's gone toe-to-toe with the Hulk and the Juggernaut surviving impacts that would turn any normal human into a fine mist.

I'll grant you it's not as flashy or impressive as some other powers, but to say it's stupid, well, that's not being realistic.
posted by anti social order at 10:48 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Did you guys know you can take the mutant healing ability out of Wolverine's claws? And then it will make you young again?
posted by P.o.B. at 10:50 AM on October 10, 2014


It really depends on the kind of life you want and on how much you think having your power will change you from where you are now. Like, for me the most useful power would certainly be the healing factor, because I am a giant horrible hypochondriac and just the knowledge that I wasn't going to die of an infected papercut would free up so much mental space that...who knows what I might accomplish? Whereas if I suddenly became able to manipulate the weather, etc, all that would happen would be it would open up whole new fields for anxiety - would I continue to work my current job for the insurance and manipulate weather in my spare time? Are we arguing that this is a world in which mutations are normal and accepted so that I can use my weather control abilities to make a living? Is this a world in which there is an organization of mutants doing, like, impressive things exists so that I can go live with all the other important mutants and not have to worry where my next meal is coming from? Or am I, as it were, alone?

And if I were suddenly telepathic as an adult - even allowing for the unified subject - I'd drive myself nuts because I could not only worry about what others were thinking but actually find out.

Which is why the simple, humble power of manipulating metal appeals to me - a quiet career as a custom jeweler and creator-of-slugs-to-get-free-stuff-from-vending-machines mixed with occasionally using my manipulation of magnetic fields to fly.
posted by Frowner at 10:55 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


A girl on OKC once introduced herself to me as "Laura, like the Croft". I like to think this was a nerd-pedant filter.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:55 AM on October 10, 2014 [7 favorites]


Last time I've needed to fight the Hulk: Never
Last time I've wanted to control the weather: Just now, when it was drizzly and I wanted to eat lunch in the park.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:56 AM on October 10, 2014 [10 favorites]


The only right answer to "What super power would you choose?" is shape-shifting.

Shape-shifting.

That's it. I can't process how a human being who thinks about this question for more than 20 seconds can come to a different conclusion.


Shape-shifting is only good for as long as you can pull off being whoever you've chosen to look like, which would require extensive knowledge of his/her social network (not just names but also personalities and nuances of the relationship), not to mention body language and linguistic tics.

Orphan Black gets into this a tiny bit, and the actress does a great job but in story terms I think that most people would get caught quickly when pretending to be someone in a career they know virtually nothing about. (Well ... aside from Frank Abagnale, who can apparently fake nearly any career).

As for the comic, I was expecting it to be more like Jason Shiga's Meanwhile, where the "winning" strategy is to znxr n ybg bs qryvorengryl onq pubvprf.
posted by johnofjack at 10:57 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Time manipulation would probably come in handy in just about every situation. That is if someone doesn't just shoot you in the back of the head or something.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:59 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


No the best power is mind control cause a group of like minded telepaths would immediately band together to form a conspiracy against non-telepaths duh
posted by The Whelk at 11:00 AM on October 10, 2014


"What comic-book superpower would YOU want to have, Egypt?"

"...Reality-shifting. Like the Post Bros."

"The who?"

TWENTY MINUTES LATER...
posted by egypturnash at 11:00 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


And...

johnofjack > Shape-shifting is only good for as long as you can pull off being whoever you've chosen to look like, which would require extensive knowledge of his/her social network (not just names but also personalities and nuances of the relationship), not to mention body language and linguistic tics.

Man, who wants to pretend to be someone else. I wanna turn into a dragon or a lion or something. And on a more casual level, tweak a few parts of my appearance without spending a ton of money and hassle on plastic surgery.
posted by egypturnash at 11:04 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Shape-shifting is only good for as long as you can pull off being whoever you've chosen to look like, which would require extensive knowledge of his/her social network (not just names but also personalities and nuances of the relationship), not to mention body language and linguistic tics.

So don't use your powers to be anybody who anyone knows. If you're a shapeshifter, you can do anything you want right in front of everybody, and the instant you turn a corner or duck into a crowd, bam, they've lost you. It's the ultimate getaway.

And everyone knows that shapeshifting powers are really all about sex anyway.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:05 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Wolverine was a favorite character of mine, and his philosophical discussions with Nightcrawler were awesome. But I never wanted to BE Wolverine. I just wanted to know him. (ame with Nightcrawler.) He seemed tough and down-to-earth (vs Pollyanna Xavier or Public School twat Scott).

I have mostly enjoyed the movies but I still haven't gotten over how Hugh Jackman is just wrong for the part. Wolverine is not supposed to be attractive. Wolverines are not attractive. Wolverine pups manage to be the least attractive baby fuzzy thing out there. I don't know who's out there who would have fit the bill better (Ron Perlman? Lee Arenberg?) but they need to be not hawt. (And don't get me started on Rogue.)
posted by small_ruminant at 11:10 AM on October 10, 2014


marvel should do a comic where juggernaut is slamming brews and somebody says huh more like chuggernaut
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:11 AM on October 10, 2014 [13 favorites]


Wait, I have to second muddgirl's confusion after reading this thread and the Wikipedia page.

If the military project backstory about Wolverine's metal claws wasn't invented until 2001, then how did the comics previously explain them? Was it tacitly implied or accepted that Wolverine's adamantium bones and claws were a mutation? If so the date guy is just being OG. Respect.

(I must have ret-conned my own memory, because I also feel like the government superweapon explanation extends back to my X-Men cartoon watching days in the mid-1990s.)
posted by dgaicun at 11:12 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


And yeah, my recollection is that Wolverine's claws were treated as biomechanical implants for much of the comic's run, irrespective of whether that implantation was ever shown, and it's pretty clear that the writers thought so as well, both for the comics and the first X-Men film. Possibly the second as well depending on how you interpret Stryker's remark.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:16 AM on October 10, 2014


"During the 1990s, the character was revealed to have bone claws, after his adamantium is ripped out by Magneto ... In X-Men #25 (1993), at the culmination of the "Fatal Attractions" crossover, the supervillain Magneto forcibly removes the adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton."

So the writers left it unexplained how the metal got there, but for the first 20 years of his existence it was understood that Wolverine's metal claws were a mutant power.
posted by dgaicun at 11:20 AM on October 10, 2014


I'd go for either Zoom's or Plastic Man's powers.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:26 AM on October 10, 2014


I enjoyed the link and I'm greatly enjoying this thread, but as someone who hasn't followed comics for half a century or so and only read DC Comics (Hawk-a-a-a!), I have to ask: why does she run away when her date says Jean Grey's power is being the Phoenix? Please don't hurt me.
posted by languagehat at 11:27 AM on October 10, 2014


It's not an argument! It's a "oh, this is a thing that interests me, too, now I have an excuse to talk about it, and oh by the way you were wrong about that thing, but it's ok because I fully expect you to call me out when I am wrong about super trivial but interesting minutiae, too."

Somebody gets it! "You just always need to be right." "No, I need everybody to be right!"

It's funny - I've had this basic exchange *so many times too many* with my [person of intense and amorous interest] but really one of the first reasons I knew she was awesome is that we could talk weird minutiae all day, about anything. I guess not everybody is a nit picker. Have we learned nothing from the apes? Picking nits is a social activity!
posted by atoxyl at 11:29 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Well, if we're going to cite Wikipedia:

While originally depicted as bionic implants created by the Weapon X program[1], the claws are later revealed to be a natural part of his body.

The first citation is for the 4-issue Frank Miller miniseries in 1982.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:29 AM on October 10, 2014


Navelgazer: "I would totally want whatever the Batman has."

/excuses self to call hitman.


Unlimited money, finely-honed physical perfection, and dead parents.

Well, two out of three ain't bad.
Three out of three, for some of us.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:29 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


I meant "defining things batman has" vis-a-vis "actually wanting that thing." I'm sorry to have offended or caused hurt in any way.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:31 AM on October 10, 2014


My wife and I have a perfect understanding, she defers to me on all things nerd while I defer to her on all things cooking, celebrity gossip, horror movies, defensive driving, how to properly clean a surface, picking up social cues, and communication on any matter not related to all things nerd.

"Doing the cooking, cleaning, driving, and communicating for my household sure is exhausting, but it's all worth it when I see the blissful look in my husband's eyes as he describes an X-Men character's origin story to me!"
posted by threeants at 11:32 AM on October 10, 2014 [9 favorites]


I have to ask: why does she run away when her date says Jean Grey's power is being the Phoenix?

Running away seems a little extreme, but Jean's powers are telepathy and telekinesis. The Phoenix is a superpowered, vaguely subsapient cosmic entity which resurrected and possessed her.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:34 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


A girl on OKC once introduced herself to me as "Laura, like the Croft". I like to think this was a nerd-pedant filter.

Or perhaps she was comparing herself to Playboy model Laura Croft.
(I'm at work, so you can Google it)
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:35 AM on October 10, 2014


Incorrect, threeants. The technically correct* interpretation of Ber's comment is that his wife defines how all things cooking, celebrity gossip, horror movies, defensive driving, how to properly clean a surface, picking up social cues, and communication on any matter not related to all things nerd are to be done.

As in, "Cleaning the kitchen is clearly a husband's duty."

* The best kind of correct.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:37 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Come on, TELEPORTATION! Cuts down on your travel time immensely, saves gas, lowers carbon emissions...

I mean, assuming that it came with the sub-power of not accidentally teleporting yourself inside a solid object or something like that.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:37 AM on October 10, 2014


"Doing the cooking, cleaning, driving, and communicating for my household is exhausting, but it's all worth it when I see the blissful look in my husband's eyes as he describes an X-Men character's origin story to me!"

Hardly. It's more like I accept her knowledge of certain things to be far greater than mine, not to mention her ability to communicate and empathize. I cook and clean, the later far more than her. I just don't do it to her level.
posted by Ber at 11:39 AM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


What's unclear to me is why the majority of female comic book heroes have enormous, gravity-defying breasts when we've never seen one with powers of super-lactation.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:41 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


George, thanks for clearing up (most of) the confusion. (All I have to go by is the Wikipedia entry, since I've never owned a comic book). So the Weapon X explanation was in the comics from early on. The late addition to the story is that his claws were natural, and covered with metal rather than added on entirely.
posted by dgaicun at 11:43 AM on October 10, 2014


It's funny - I've had this basic exchange *so many times too many* with my [person of intense and amorous interest] but really one of the first reasons I knew she was awesome is that we could talk weird minutiae all day, about anything. I guess not everybody is a nit picker. Have we learned nothing from the apes? Picking nits is a social activity!

The issue isn't "being right"; it's that "being right" exists in a particular context - and on a first date [which is what appears to be depicted in the comic] all kinds of stuff is still up in the air in terms of power and personality issues. I've definitely been in situations with men where it's clear that petty corrections were meant to establish who is the "knower" in the conversation, for instance. A guy who is interested in petty corrections early in the conversation with a comparative stranger is not the World's Most Authentic Nerd; he's just a guy where his odds of turning out to be kind of sexist have just shot up.

Not "correcting" small details in conversation is a way of demonstrating that you aren't obsessed with winning. Insisting on policing a casual conversation with a near-stranger suggests that you have anxieties about winning and correctness, or it suggests that you have never been in a situation where you've had to consider the feelings of the person on the other side of the table - that you have always been top nerd. I'd say that while the comic depicts the corrector as female, correcting is much greater problem for male nerds since it is more likely to reflect the way that men can get away with just saying whatever the hell in conversation with women.

I don't like the idea that making sure that your conversation partner is absolutely 100% canon-compliant is some kind of mark of real nerdery. It's actually just a variant on grad student competition syndrome - which of us has read the most Lacan? Which of us is most adroit at interpretation? Etc, etc.

Competition is fun when you already have some social rules for interaction - if you know and trust someone, if you know that they like you, if you know that they listen to you. If you know that they aren't actually going to think you're stupid because you get something backwards about the whole Juggernaut thing or haven't read a particular comics arc. You don't know that on a first date, generally.
posted by Frowner at 11:45 AM on October 10, 2014 [7 favorites]


A way to solve this is to only date people who are rabidly interested in knowing all of the things.

Honestly, it was a comment in metafilter where for the first time I realized that some people really get upset at being corrected on matters of fact. This blew my mind that it could cause such offense. I still don't understand it, but now I know such an attitude exists.

I mean, if you're having a conversation with someone, don't you want your presuppositions to be correct before you make arguments or conclusions? Don't you want to be sure that everything you're saying is correct?

Humanity baffles me much of the time because of stuff like this.
posted by deanc at 11:48 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


The social minefield of correcting people is hard because of the "do unto others" principle. Personally I'd rather someone cleared up my misconceptions then and there than continue to carry them around unwitting. But I have been on dates where the other party is apparently not in that camp at all. So it's tricky. But the part about being polite about it is hardly a difficult conundrum.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:50 AM on October 10, 2014


Honestly, it was a comment in metafilter where for the first time I realized that some people really get upset at being corrected on matters of fact. This blew my mind that it could cause such offense. I still don't understand it, but now I know such an attitude exists.

But people are wrong all the time.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn in teaching (and, to be honest, in my other relationships) is that getting hung up about making sure that other people are "correct" about trivial matters of fact is a great way to prevent conversations from developing and a great way to prevent learning. Obviously, if someone says "Bismark was the leader of Germany during WWI" or "the Annaresti society in The Dispossessed is Marxist" or something, that's a significant misunderstanding which needs to be corrected. But if someone says in passing that Bismarck died in 1896 or thinks that Shevek's first, startled sighting of a horse is really a sighting of a cow, and that's not important to their main point, not only is it churlish of me to correct them but it's going to derail and spoil whatever line of reasoning they're working on, and it's going to inject self-doubt and apology into the conversation. Or else it's going to cause us to argue about whether Bismarck died in 1896 or 1898, get derailed onto google and loose the thread of the conversation.
posted by Frowner at 11:55 AM on October 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


The thing about being a top nerd is that you are constantly confronted with situations where people know something you don't, so being incorrect about or not knowing a fact or tidbit is not some kind of social or intellectual failing on your part but just a fact of day to day life and doesn't affect my own sense of security when it comes to being intellectual competent.

But then again it is obviously the case that other people have a wildly different emotional matrix when it comes to processing these interactions. I still don't get it, but I know it exists.
posted by deanc at 11:56 AM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
posted by spilon at 11:57 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


MOLLY HER NAME IS MOLLY MOLLY MILLIONS

My old friend Clare voiced her (renamed Jane, after the character in the movie version) for Johnny Mnemonic: The Interactive Action Movie. I'm not sure she ever understood that playing this character in an official capacity was like being one of the people who have walked on the moon, or one of the presidents of the United States, or a Dr Who -- it's a small, extremely exclusive club that a lot of people would kill to be part of.

As I recall, for Clare it was just a gig. I did not try to convince her otherwise.
posted by maxsparber at 11:59 AM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


Don't you want to be sure that everything you're saying is correct?

Some people, upon discovering you have opinions they don't like or agree with, will only ask you follow-up questions to discover the limits of your knowledge so they can humiliate you and discard your opinion. Some of us grew up in houses where this was standard or have dated people who used this as a way to shut down discussion. Some of us have experienced this specifically with nerd minutae because we are women and there are men who don't want us in their spaces. Encountering it enough will make you defensive when someone starts probing you for gaps in your knowledge, even if they have innocent intentions.
posted by almostmanda at 11:59 AM on October 10, 2014 [9 favorites]


Not being "a top nerd" - being Top Nerd, the top of the pecking order. Being "a top nerd" might be desirable; being Top Nerd just means that you've been enough of a bully and a dick to the people around you that they get scared and fuddled in your presence and let you get away with shit.
posted by Frowner at 12:00 PM on October 10, 2014


You can always one-up a comic book nerd by telling them that Superman's Fortress of Solitude was plagiarized from Doc Savage.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:01 PM on October 10, 2014


"...Reality-shifting. Like the Post Bros."

"The who?"


Those annoying Post Bros.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:04 PM on October 10, 2014


Or else it's going to cause us to argue about whether Bismarck died in 1896 or 1898, get derailed onto google and loose the thread of the conversation.

fair. Or if I interrupted you while lecturing to harp on that date and distracted the class, that would be bad. But I can't say that my reaction would be, "Frowner made me feel stupid and was engaging in acts of petty dominance when she corrected me about Bismarck's death." But for a lot of people it does make them feel stupid.
posted by deanc at 12:06 PM on October 10, 2014


"During the 1990s, the character was revealed to have bone claws, after his adamantium is ripped out by Magneto ... In X-Men #25 (1993),

Wrong.

All y'all need to read the Barry Windsor Smith Weapon X story in which old Canuklehead's origin was told. Short story: picked as victim for a Canadian super soldier project, the bone claws were discovered, then his bones were covered with adamantium, he was tested as a secret weapon, broke free and wrought terrible revenge.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:08 PM on October 10, 2014


bonehead: "The Phoenix force is also, modulo recons, the ultimate expression of Jean's mutation, certainly in the first intention, and in some of the later iterations. Dude's arguably correct, going on just the first run.

....I guess I'd rather be a bit of a jerk than leave a partner in jeopardy.
"

Unless it's Scott Summers.
posted by symbioid at 12:08 PM on October 10, 2014


I had a hard time reading the comic because I Do Not Care About Superheroes. I think, if a date said he wanted Wolverine's claws, I'd ask mildly, "why's that?" (while hoping he wasn't as violent and sociopathic as that sounded).

Of course, the other day, when I found out that a co-worker thought potatoes and tomatoes have been in Europe for thousands of years, I went into full on lecture mode about the Columbian Exchange and how the domestication of vegetables by Native Americans have changed history, but I like to think that's more important.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 12:10 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


I try my hardest to check myself. I mean, I love talking about topics I love and I will bore people to tears about it, and usually it's not shit people generally give a shit about, but even if they don't know much about it, I try to be fair and hedge my knowledge by adding plenty of "I'm not sures" and "I *think* it's like x, but I can't guarantee that"...

Something like that.
posted by symbioid at 12:12 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


But potatoes and tobacco must've been in Europe forever, because Tolkien had them in Lord of the Rings.
posted by MartinWisse at 12:13 PM on October 10, 2014 [3 favorites]


The joke is that anyone would ever consider taking seriously the responsibility for someone else's future performance in a situation where pop culture trivia would be important, right?

Or it's that we have such situations?

Or that such situations come up on dates themselves?

Or that knowing nerd trivia is the kobayashi maru of conversational touchstones?
posted by weston at 12:13 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


I thought the fine folks at Cracked had already settled this one.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 12:17 PM on October 10, 2014


I like the characterization in Mona Lisa Overdrive much better than in Neuromancer. I think of her as Sally all the time, sorry.

For the record, I was just replying in character, as it were. You can call her Sally if you want. Or Rose.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:19 PM on October 10, 2014


> Running away seems a little extreme, but Jean's powers are telepathy and telekinesis. The Phoenix is a superpowered, vaguely subsapient cosmic entity which resurrected and possessed her.

Thanks!

> Don't you want to be sure that everything you're saying is correct?

This is absurd. Virtually nothing any of us says is correct from an omniscient point of view. We are all stumbling around in our own clouds of presuppositions, vaguely remembered theories, and a whole bunch of "facts" of uncertain provenance. If you enjoy it when someone you're talking to trumps one of your alleged facts with an alleged fact of their own which you acknowledge (for whatever reason) to be of superior credibility, good for you, I guess, but it's... odd to pretend that everyone else's reaction of annoyance is bizarre and inexplicable. As Frowner says, if an alleged fact is important to a discussion, it's a good idea to get it as correct as you can, but if it's just a matter of "Actually, I have a name/date/fact in my head that's different from the one you just said and I have a compulsion to share my possibly mistaken but fervently held idea with you," then it's better to (in the immortal words of Archie Bunker) stifle yourself.
posted by languagehat at 12:20 PM on October 10, 2014 [5 favorites]


The best superpower is (a) three wishes and (b) wisdom gained from Steve Martin.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:22 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I have theory that the Phoenix is a device left over by an ancient race of celestial engineers long since transcended but they left some of their tools lying around. This thing, a kind of exotic energy based swiss army knife with a subsapient AI is not designed to function unless it merges with a compatible organism, and humans have an accidental similarity in their brain structures that attracted it to us. The trouble is we're not similar enough and the symbiosis results in megalomania in humans.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:28 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I think the comic illustrates well the thing I like least about nerd culture: there's such a dramatic embrace of minutiae and correctness that it becomes really stifling.

I know a fair amount about the Lord of the Rings lore and mythology, for instance, but I would much rather talk to someone who had something interesting and unique to say about the symbology of the silmarils, or how they relate to other sacred artifacts in European mythological traditions, than to have a conversation with someone who knows the name and family tree of every elf. Having an emotionally, intellectually or imaginatively rigid sense of correctness about stories would actually be a huge turn-off to me on a date, and in a larger sense, the popularity of that attitude seems to me more like a lack of imagination or interpretive interest than meaningful appreciation.
posted by clockzero at 12:31 PM on October 10, 2014 [7 favorites]


Mudgirl, I saw that explanation (Wolverine's claws were implants that he got when his skeleton was reinforced with metal strips) in a comic book. It was the issue that was about hardware in this series that was going to describe every-damn-thing in the entire Marvel Universe. That was the middle- to late-1980s. It has Iron Man's suit and tons of other gear.
posted by wenestvedt at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


you people are out of control.
posted by echocollate at 12:40 PM on October 10, 2014


This is one of those choose your own adventure comics where every route needs to end with you lifting a rock and getting bitten by the deadly fer-de-lance.
posted by furiousthought at 12:43 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I thought the fine folks at Cracked had already settled this one.

I didn't enjoy their banter. But it did lead me to search for two half-remembered Cracked links that work well with the date question in the FPP:

6 Awesome Superpowers (That Would Suck in Real Life)

6 Real People With Mind-Blowing Mutant Superpowers
posted by dgaicun at 12:46 PM on October 10, 2014


I have theory that the Phoenix is a device left over by an ancient race of celestial engineers long since transcended but they left some of their tools lying around.

You're thinking of the theory that the Celestials uplifted humanity and gave them the potential for superpowers in the hopes that they might protect the cosmic celestial egg at the center of the Earth from getting eaten by Galactus. But that theory isn't true in the regular 616-version of the Marvel Universe.
posted by straight at 12:57 PM on October 10, 2014


If I were on a date with someone who addressed the comic's remark to me I'd probably be like "Huh. Claws. Yeah, claws are cool. Bet they'd be hell on your pockets and sofa, though. Now eternal youth, that's the superpower I'd choose."

marvel should do a comic where juggernaut is slamming brews and somebody says huh more like chuggernaut

Or if my date said that to me, then I'd be like "Ever hear "Chug all night"? Possibly the worst song the Eagles ever recorded—certainly the worst song on Eagles. That shit is hilarious. You must hear it. ♫♪I believe we can chug all night ... I believe we could hug all night♫♪"
posted by octobersurprise at 12:58 PM on October 10, 2014


marvel should do a comic where juggernaut is slamming brews and somebody says huh more like chuggernaut

It happened in Uncanny X-men #183 (vol. 1), and while Juggernaut didn't take it very well, it probably saved his life from a soul-sucking psychic vampire.
posted by straight at 12:59 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


I feel pretty strongly that the only reason Juggernaut and Professor X are canonically brothers

Really, there's no reason for Juggernaut to be an Xavier. Why not just make him Indian?
posted by straight at 1:03 PM on October 10, 2014


You get your history from Lord of the Rings!? *stabs MartinWisse*

I know I know I kid
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 1:11 PM on October 10, 2014


but seriously I think if I ever met anyone like that in real life on a date I would jump up over the table and stab them in the eye with a fork
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 1:14 PM on October 10, 2014


Maybe I'm confused but I'm pretty sure there was an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry dated a female Weapon X called Mulverine.
posted by George_Spiggott at 1:16 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


The issue isn't "being right"; it's that "being right" exists in a particular context - and on a first date [which is what appears to be depicted in the comic] all kinds of stuff is still up in the air in terms of power and personality issues. I've definitely been in situations with men where it's clear that petty corrections were meant to establish who is the "knower" in the conversation, for instance. A guy who is interested in petty corrections early in the conversation with a comparative stranger is not the World's Most Authentic Nerd; he's just a guy where his odds of turning out to be kind of sexist have just shot up.

I had hoped it was clear I was making fun of myself. If you want to be serious about this - of course I get that the best course for a sane person is to try to work on your instinct to do things that people don't like, rather than blithely forging ahead in being annoying, let alone on a date. And I even get why women in particular would have experiences that lead them to make certain assumptions. But the view from inside my head is that I've too many times been in situations where somebody is thoroughly convinced I'm playing some kind of dominance game, want to "win" etc. when (I'm more of a real science/history guy but I'm not going to get caught up arguing what's "really important" either) I was truly honestly just excited to share - and I know it's the worst possible approach to try to argue your way out of that, because I'm an idiot and I've done it. So I don't think it's unreasonable for me to feel frustrated at being misunderstood, and try to explain my side in a context where I'm not already in a fight with anybody - while acknowledging that it's not at all actually on other people if things I do touch a sore spot. All I really meant was to joke around about the glorious mess that is human communication.
posted by atoxyl at 1:20 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


"Wolverine's claws? Oh, so you're into the bullshit 'Origins' miniseries retcon that amplified all the regrettable GRIMDARK nonsense that's led Wolverine to be the go-to power fantasy for sullen tweens? The correct answer is The Beyonder, since we're playing retcons, or if we're not, Franklin Richards."
posted by klangklangston at 1:33 PM on October 10, 2014


Man, bone claws don't even make sense to me! They come out of his very first set of knuckles! Maybe that's why I've blocked out any reference to them in the comic books and only picked up on the ones that say they were implants that painfully pierce his skin but heal super-fast, since clearly both theories pretty much co-exist in the minds of various writers.

This is why I'm interested in "arguments" more as explorations of personal fandom, and less as Who's Right and Who's Wrong.
posted by muddgirl at 1:33 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


i mean come on why would they retract full length back into his hands when it is so obvious that they spontaneously generate each time he unsheaths them and reintegrate into his skeleton when they retract, this works whether they are plain bone or admantium coated/infused/whatevs bone

this may be the first time i have been frustrated by mefi not being nerdy ENOUGH
posted by poffin boffin at 1:49 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


Man, bone claws don't even make sense to me! They come out of his very first set of knuckles!

This has always been my problem with Wolverine. Where do the claws go when they are not extended? There is nowhere for them to go! This is precisely the kind of thing that keeps me awake of nights. Also why does Magneto's helmet need to cover his entire head but not the front of his face? It should either be a mere circlet of metal or entirely head-covering.
posted by Frowner at 1:56 PM on October 10, 2014


The correct answer is The Beyonder

What, you've always dreamed of finding out what it's like to take a shit?
posted by COBRA! at 2:09 PM on October 10, 2014


when it is so obvious that they spontaneously generate each time he unsheaths them and reintegrate into his skeleton when they retract

That's fine, but they should generate out of his third knuckles, perhaps even literally grow out of his finger tips, if he were a mutant wolverine. The back of the hand position makes more sense if, like one of the co-creators states, the original idea was that he had external claw-gloves.
posted by muddgirl at 2:12 PM on October 10, 2014


They've shown x-rays in two of the movies that I recall. In the first X-Men film they're pretty clearly mechanical. In a later film we see them emerging close up, pushing between the carpals in a rather disturbing fashion. In either case, his radius and ulna seem to be pretty widely spaced to make room for it all. My assumption is he has pretty big forearms to hold all that shiat.
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:22 PM on October 10, 2014


but then how does he bend his wrist
posted by poffin boffin at 2:26 PM on October 10, 2014 [1 favorite]


If Wolverine's claws are not attributive, does that make them predicative claws?
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:27 PM on October 10, 2014 [4 favorites]


but then how does he bend his wrist

I think his wrist has to be in a particular position to extend them, but fully out or fully retracted they're out of the way and his wrist can bend. Christ I'm starting to go into nerdshame.
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:29 PM on October 10, 2014 [6 favorites]


right but on the first xray you can see that they are both inside his forearm AND extending past his wrist even though they are fully retracted so technically he should never be able to bend his hand forward or flex it back at all so my spontaneous generation idea really is the best obvsly

U KNO IM RIGHT SPIGGOTT ADMIT IT
posted by poffin boffin at 2:32 PM on October 10, 2014 [4 favorites]


I know a cute bnb in Nerdshame if you're stuck there.
posted by fleacircus at 3:21 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


George_Spiggott > What's unclear to me is why the majority of female comic book heroes have enormous, gravity-defying breasts when we've never seen one with powers of super-lactation.

I present to you The Magnificent Milkmaid. It is an indy comic that is exactly what it sounds like. It's NSFW.

don't ask why I know about it okay thanks bye
posted by egypturnash at 6:41 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


130 comments and nobody's mentioned the Flash? Comic Barry was generally pretty boring (and I'm of the school that says that the best thing he ever did was die), but by the end of his run he was functionally a deity who just didn't use a lot of his powers most of the time. Give me Barry's super-speed and attendant abilities.
posted by protocoach at 7:15 PM on October 10, 2014


Not to mention that the worst thing about having Kitty Pryde's power would be that all of the rest of the world would be pissed at me for owning literally everything of value.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:45 PM on October 10, 2014 [2 favorites]


As I recall, for Clare it was just a gig. I did not try to convince her otherwise.

In all fairness, that's the perfect attitude to have when playing Molly Millions.


-----------------------------MEANWHILE------------------------------


"...Reality-shifting. Like the Post Bros."

"The who?"

Those annoying Post Bros.


*Shifts out*

*Shifts back in with someone who can explain this better*

Wait a minute, what am I thinking?

*Shifts to a reality level where I've already finished the explanation, and you're enthralled at the knowledge.*
posted by happyroach at 9:31 PM on October 10, 2014


Feel obligated to say, this thread is infinitely better than its source material.

Who's Wolverine, again?
posted by zbsachs at 10:04 PM on October 10, 2014


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