EVE Online: Phoebe changes everything about capital-class ship travel
October 23, 2014 2:02 PM   Subscribe

Possibly one of the largest game changes ever seen. Being over ten years old, Eve has started to suffer from stagnation in its null-security space operations and politics. After the large $300k+ battle of B-RVRB, many of the large alliances and coalitions settled in to rebuild their massive capital ships. Many of them brokered deals to not attack each other and this has been going on for quite some time. Without high-end targets to go after, those operating large capital fleets get bored and find ways to PvP on lesser well-equipped players with their Titans and supercarriers. This type of PvP has been around for a long time of course, but now it is to the extent that CCP Games has announced highly drastic changes to the way that capital ships and others travel via jump mechanics (teleportation), bridging structures and gate travel. All jump ranges by most capital ships, usually in the 11-15 light year range, will be reset to a 5 light year range in the upcoming Phoebe expansion in early November. This, along with the introduction of fatigue timers, will drastically alter the travel map for very large ships in that old routes between regions will no longer exist for most areas of the galaxy. The player base has been split between being overly-exhilarated and highly-wronged. But all agree, the in-game universe size has been re-writ enormously. posted by Zangal (75 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite
 
Every time I see a thread about EVE I think it must be the most fascinating game that I've never played. Is it really as interesting from the inside as from the outside?
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 2:07 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]


I've wanted to get in on this game for the longest time. Would now be a good time to start?
posted by Renoroc at 2:07 PM on October 23, 2014


Prepare my space-popcorn and meet me on the bridge.

Kutsuwamushi: "Every time I see a thread about EVE I think it must be the most fascinating game that I've never played. Is it really as interesting from the inside as from the outside?"

Have you ever smashed a keyboard out of frustration? How would you categorize that experience, or your perception of that experience?
posted by boo_radley at 2:09 PM on October 23, 2014 [12 favorites]


So many fixes had to accompany this change, such as BlackOps ranging, where your medical clone can be set to, capitals can now use stargates, that this rollup of changes would normally be worth an entire expansion.

But CCP programmers have had lots of other recent ideas come to fruition at the same time that they are being included as well. (There are about twice as much announced now compared to the above link.)

Eve has been on a 6 week expansion schedule for a while now, but all the changes now incoming for Phoebe is about to recreate much of the game.

It's almost like they had a bank of cool changes saved up to placate the base when they announced the travel changes. =)
posted by Zangal at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


Is it really as interesting from the inside as from the outside?

Yes!
posted by bitterpants at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2014


> "Every time I see a thread about EVE I think it must be the most fascinating game that I've never played."

On the other hand, every time I hear EVE play described, it sounds like spending your spare time working as an unpaid entry-level CPA and accounts manager for a trucking company that once in a great while has a space battle.
posted by kyrademon at 2:11 PM on October 23, 2014 [177 favorites]


Is it really as interesting from the inside as from the outside?

Yes!


Unless you're mining =) But then, I'm a miner who dabbles in everything else.
posted by Zangal at 2:13 PM on October 23, 2014


I've wanted to get in on this game for the longest time. Would now be a good time to start?

The consensus is yes. Many conversations are now along the lines of "omg, all the new people we'll see won't understand why the old players are such bitter vets"
posted by Zangal at 2:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


It's a great game, but it is also a very acquired taste.

I spent most of my time in it trading goods across the high sec / low sec border. There was a lot of arbitrage in goods prices on the border, and it was easy to make money if you didn't mind the occassional cat and mouse with pirates.

Folks were suprisingly adverse to dying, so there weren't too many like me playing. I learned to equip really cheap, but effective space trucks, and never took any implants, so while it was uncommon for me to get taken out by camping pirates, when it did happen, it didn't really bother me too much.

The best of the game really is in self-direction and emergence, and shares a lot with Minecraft that way.
posted by Strange_Robinson at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]


Disclaimer: former player here. But I quit because I was having too much fun, and it was taking up too much time in my life.
posted by bitterpants at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2014


I do recall a MeFi group called MeFights somewhere. I'll have to look them up so I can go crush them. =)
posted by Zangal at 2:17 PM on October 23, 2014


Every time I see a story about EVE I consider re-subscribing. This new change seems like it would benefit my highly stealth specced pilot. Must resist.
posted by Splunge at 2:19 PM on October 23, 2014


Wow it's almost like it's a market that is shaped by a government or something. Nah.
posted by wuwei at 2:21 PM on October 23, 2014


Re Metafilter Eve - check with ryanrs and RolandOfEld. One of them should know where/who to talk to.
posted by Ryvar at 2:21 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


I'm not kidding, I've started to play this game about six times. The idea of this game is absolutely fascinating to me, even apart from the drama that gets IRL attention every so often. But ever time I play, I hit a predictable point where I'm like this is too complicated to not feel like work. Then I set it aside and just think about outer space for awhile.

There are some awesome space sims coming up that I'm really excited about, mainly because I love the idea of being in space and going places. I just want one that is epic in scale and truly sandbox but doesn't require a steep learning curve to figure out.
posted by SpacemanStix at 2:22 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]


People who take the time to do anything in Eve frighten me a little.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:22 PM on October 23, 2014


There are some awesome space sims coming up that I'm really excited about, mainly because I love the idea of being in space and going places. I just want one that is epic in scale and truly sandbox but doesn't require a steep learning curve to figure out.

A modern version of Escape Velocity! If you find anything let me know!
posted by brundlefly at 2:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [25 favorites]


Could someone construct a real-life metaphor for what this means to the rest of us? Like, would this be the equivalent of the feds restricting interstate traffic to 25mph? Or some other useful analogy?
posted by Think_Long at 2:25 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, every time I hear EVE play described, it sounds like spending your spare time working as an unpaid entry-level CPA and accounts manager for a trucking company that once in a great while has a space battle.

It's like The Last Starfighter... you play long enough and some dudes from FedEx show up with a jacket for you.

DEATH BLOSSOM!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:27 PM on October 23, 2014 [12 favorites]


I totally love the idea of EVE. I find the entire thing fascinating. What I don't have time to do is start playing.

Is there a weekly recap of what happened this week along with some analysis into the mechanics behind it all? I'm totally fine watching this one from the sidelines. When I retire, I'll probably pick up something like this and spend 20 hours a week on it.
posted by Brian Puccio at 2:30 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


Re Metafilter Eve


RolandOfEld is currently retired AFAIK.

If you join Mefightclub (which is a good idea anyway!) there's a thread people check there. They can help direct you further.
posted by bitterpants at 2:35 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


An analogy might be the laws of physics suddenly restricting the range of long-range flight. Now instead of flying non-stop from NY to LA, you'd have to make 2 or 3 stops in between, with a couple hours' layover each stop to rest and refuel. Flying cross-country would still doable if you really want to, but frankly it'd be easier just get in the car and drive. Or take the train. Local vacations would become much more attractive, while commuting coast-to-coast would become a thing of the past.

Currently the wealthy, powerful, veteran bodies have a built-in advantage, in that they can move huge fleets of huge ships across the galaxy-ette very quickly. "Force projection" is the term they borrowed from the military. This change almost completely eviscerates this tactic, and many players anticipate that activity in the game will become much more localized and regionalized.

But Phoebe hasn't even been released, and it's already having its intended effect of shaking nullsec to its foundations. Yesterday Mittens himself spake from on high, announcing that CFC would be withdrawing from a sizable portion of space they've held in the southwest. Others of the major coalitions are also moving in anticipation. And CCP aren't done! More changes are expected next year in how space itself is owned. And as a line member of one of the newer bodies in nullsec (7o!) I'm looking forward to seeing how this grand space opera evolves.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 2:38 PM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]


I treat EVE Online as a years-long piece of collaborative, serialized fiction.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:40 PM on October 23, 2014 [5 favorites]


clvrmnky: "People who take the time to do anything in Eve frighten me a little."

BOO!
posted by Splunge at 2:41 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


Little Bobby Tables is sitting in his Archon in UJY-HE in at the top of Deklein, just after the Oceanus release. He wants to travel to Atioth, at the bottom of Geminate, which is around 50 LY as the space-crow flies. He consults a popular jump planning service, which gives him a route of four jumps and 53 LY. He’s travel fit and has max skills, so his jump range is 14.625 LY and he’s expecting to be limited primarily by the session change timer. The journey takes him around two minutes.

This sounds like an exam question for Space Algebra.
posted by dephlogisticated at 2:41 PM on October 23, 2014 [17 favorites]


Thank you Nutmeg, an excellent take on it.
posted by Zangal at 2:42 PM on October 23, 2014


EVE's moniker of "Spreadsheets in Space" is well-deserved, let there be no doubt.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 2:43 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Could someone construct a real-life metaphor for what this means to the rest of us? Like, would this be the equivalent of the feds restricting interstate traffic to 25mph? Or some other useful analogy?

Anything bigger than a 3500-series truck (U-haul to multi-trailer Semis) are now restricted to driving say, 300 miles maximum on high-speed, controlled-access interstates.

After hitting your maximum driving range, you need to sit around at a truckstop and allow yourself time to rest - say an hour for each 100 miles.

Or, you can drive on the old roads, but you're stuck going 40mph and you may or may not be blown up or taken over by pirates every time you pass a small town, which are spaced at 15-mile increments.

If you try to cheat on that timer while on those new controlled-access interestates, that rest time accrues logarithmically.

So if you say "Hey, I had a good night's sleep, I'm just going to drive all night and push on through to my final destination" then you accrue enough rest time that you can't drive again for months - if not longer.

Some of the cross-galaxy deployments we used to make (I'm a member of one of the large-bloc coalitions) would accrue real-time years of jump fatigue under the new system - assuming all jumps were made in quick succession.

(sorry, it's an imperfect example, but I'm at work and I haven't gotten into cap ships ... yet)
posted by wavy at 2:45 PM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]


An analogy might be the laws of physics suddenly restricting the range of long-range flight.

Did they take on Vernor Vinge as a consultant? If they introduce Zones of Thought I might have to start playing: that's basically my all time favourite sci-fi conceit.
posted by topynate at 2:47 PM on October 23, 2014 [9 favorites]


People like me in the "likes reading about EVE, but wouldn't play it" camp should check out this book that will be coming out some time early next summer that's basically a history of EVE from a player-oriented POV, ie: it's not about how EVE itself got made but about all the bananas wars and politics that have happened in the game.

I'm guessing the author has been having an interesting few weeks worth of conversations because of this announcement.
posted by sparkletone at 2:52 PM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]


Every time I feel confused about the level of committment this requires, I remind myself that I am now celebrating my third Halloween in Simpsons: Tapped Out.
posted by maxsparber at 2:57 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]


I just want one that is epic in scale and truly sandbox but doesn't require a steep learning curve to figure out.

I am hoping against hope that this is what No Man's Sky will turn out to be.
posted by sparkletone at 3:02 PM on October 23, 2014 [7 favorites]


Eve Online or Dwarf Fortress or a divorce?
posted by jeff-o-matic at 3:49 PM on October 23, 2014 [8 favorites]


Has anybody played Elite:Dangerous?

Theoretically, it seems like (on paper) that it would simultaneously scratch the Escape Velocity and Freespace II itches that I've been having for the past 10 years (minus all of the weird drama/politics that seem to follow EVE)....
posted by schmod at 3:50 PM on October 23, 2014


I am hoping against hope that this is what No Man's Sky will turn out to be.

Wow, that game looks incredible.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:54 PM on October 23, 2014


On the other hand, every time I hear EVE play described, it sounds like spending your spare time working as an unpaid entry-level CPA and accounts manager for a trucking company that once in a great while has a space battle.

. . . in which you do not get to participate.
posted by The Bellman at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Every time I see a thread about EVE I think it must be the most fascinating game that I've never played. Is it really as interesting from the inside as from the outside?

The game itself is super boring and repetitive. So if you only interact with NPC chars, then it's pretty bad. All the interesting stuff happens when you play with and against other humans. Even then you won't get exposed to interesting political and strategic stuff unless you join one of the more relevant power blocs and make an effort to get involved in the planning and the fights. It's not an exaggeration to say that metafilter readers get more out of EVE politics than the average hisec EVE player.

If you want to experience the parts of EVE that make news on Metafilter, you need to do the following:

1) Don't fall into a rut of mining or mission running. These aspects of EVE gameplay are very similar to Cookie Clicker, without the thrill of exponentially increasing numbers.

2) Join a large layer organization. If you're in a 10-man corp, you're going to spend a lot of time sitting around hoping someone else from your group logs in before you can do something. There is a minimum threshold of something like 50 players before you're likely to have fun stuff to do whenever you feel like logging in.

3) Get the hell out of high sec. The only newsworthy stuff that ever happens in hisec is when players from the outer regions raid trade hubs and suicide attack haulers.

4) It really helps if you get a big kick out of disrupting other people's gameplay and then rubbing it in their faces on online forums. I guess this sounds sort of shitty, but it's the main thing that fuels the rivalries that drive large scale space combat in EVE. Large scale battles are too slow and painful to bother with unless you're doing it to fuck over the other side. Nobody calls in sick to fight a 16 hour battle just to have "fun fights".

Now I'm sure there are a lot of players reading this who hang out in hisec with their 15-man corp and have a fun enough time doing whatever they do. That's fine. But they're not doing the sort of stuff you read about on Metafilter. Their game is very different from the grand stories you read here.
posted by ryanrs at 4:00 PM on October 23, 2014 [16 favorites]


Finally. Now they just need to get rid of local in 0.0 and all will be right in the eve universe.
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 4:09 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


That is a crazy-aggressive series of game design changes to be making. Is there a sense that it makes the game better? Or just different? I'm also curious how much CCP has been informed by the experience on the Chinese instance of the game. From what I've read it's been much more static.
posted by Nelson at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2014


Is there a sense that it makes the game better?

A year or two ago CCP made changes that decimated the income of large player coalitions which was based on territorial control and resource extraction. Deprived of their income, the most powerful player groups split up the conquerable universe into a few giant areas, drove everyone out, then rented out the space back to smaller groups for monthly isk payments. One of the goals of this change is to break up the rental empires by making it much harder or impossible for one group to control 1/3 of the map.

It's hard to say whether it will make the game better, since what is better? It will certainly make it different. It might produce a lot of small-scale fights and constant skirmish on the border of the new, smaller territories. That would be cool. Or it could isolate the relatively small proportion of players that actually enjoy pvp and prevent them from ever finding someone else to fight. That would be bad. One thing that is fairly certain is that the huge battles that are featured on Metafilter every year or two will not happen anymore.
posted by ryanrs at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2014 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the perspective, ryanrs. I could see emphasizing smaller continuous skirmishes as being a good chance, if it works. Those giant battles are headline grabbing, but they only happen every six months. My biggest complaint with Eve was there wasn't much to really do hour to hour if you wanted PvP. Far too many nights running 'ceptor gangs in far 0.0, roving trying to find some legit target, anyone just to be able to attack them. We were lucky if we got one engagement ever two hours and I started to sympathize with the pirate scum preying on n00bs in high traffic systems.
posted by Nelson at 4:47 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


Nelson, right now I'm in a group of 60 ishtars. We take wormholes into the various rental regions and burn down pos farms. I'm sure I could tell a suitably embellished story about it on Metafilter that would make it seem amazing and cool, but in reality we're afk shooting undefended structures. This is the state of EVE in October 2014.
posted by ryanrs at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]


Nelson: "I'm also curious how much CCP has been informed by the experience on the Chinese instance of the game. From what I've read it's been much more static."

STATISM! Badum-tish!
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:04 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


On the other hand, every time I hear EVE play described, it sounds like spending your spare time working as an unpaid entry-level CPA and accounts manager for a trucking company that once in a great while has a space battle.

I just retired as PINTO's CEO. That's MFC and Mefi's unofficial corp in EVE but yea, I can say that's not so much a bad description. I knew I should give it a shot when I heard it described as a MUD with blinkly lights. Anyway, I encourage folks to try it. I'm no longer leading the show but PINTO is about as accepting and chill environment as you can imagine in a game like this, ditto for the Alliance we're members of.

bitterpants:Disclaimer: former player here. But I quit because I was having too much fun, and it was taking up too much time in my life.

Yep, that's me now. It was a great ride while it lasted and it has return potential but it's just too much for me to handle with the wife working on finishing up the internship and the kiddo crawling around my ankles.

Seriously, look into joining PINTO or (if the reply is taking too long due to a bit of a lull in activity) Vicis Inter Astrum which is the main corp in our alliance, tell them RoE sent you and they'll get you straightened out.

Fly fun.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:04 PM on October 23, 2014 [13 favorites]


That thing I either can't get or don't use is OP.

The other thing that I like is being nerfed into uselessness.

Everything is ruined forever.

Sorry, thought this was the GW2 thread. I'll see myself out...

posted by sourcequench at 5:08 PM on October 23, 2014


And my experience, as I was beginning to exit EVE, was one of continued one-upsmanship and meta gaming that becomes all but required once you get to a certain level... and this is what the Captial jump changes are looking to shape up.

Say your friend spots an enemy that you may want to go pinpoint, join, tackle, and kill. So you and he go off looking for that person. That's two (or more) of you looking for one. Great, you tend to win that battle if things go well. The cohesion is important and fun but it's still shooting a fish in a barrel if you can catch it. Then that person, or someone else, sees your group of 2+ and brings 5 unless you're constantly moving or dock up to get safe. Then that 5 dies to a carrier hot-drop. That carrier gets dropped by 4 dreads. Boom Titan bridge with a fleet of 40 ishtars.

That's the meta in eve at work. Spy nets, fleet intelligence and knowledge of shifting alliances, and fights where the target turns out to be bait. It can be a wonderful thing, but I tired of it eventually.

That's not to say there's no place for a solo fighter/hunter in EVE. There is, along with any other career one might like, but, and I guess this goes for any other video game, if you stand still, you're dead.
posted by RolandOfEld at 5:10 PM on October 23, 2014 [2 favorites]


The first rule of Goonswarm is that you do not get to join Goonswarm.

The second rule of Goonswarm is that, okay, yes you do get to join Goonswarm. Just send the entrance fee to the following player and your credentials will be in the mail...
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]


There are only maybe two or three thousand actually-from-SA goon characters in EVE. The other 30,000+ people that everyone calls "goons" really were recruited into Goonswarm Federation or an ally. (You probably shouldn't pay isk to join though.)
posted by ryanrs at 5:38 PM on October 23, 2014


Is there a conceit in the fiction to explain this change?
posted by Gin and Comics at 6:24 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Oh god I hope not. In-game lore is the worst possible justification for game mechanics.
posted by ryanrs at 6:30 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Has anybody played Elite:Dangerous?

I'm in the beta and like it a lot. You can trade, fight, or just fly around if you want. It's a sandbox game. Lovely graphics too and very popular among the Oculus Rift crowd (which it has good support for).
posted by zippy at 6:36 PM on October 23, 2014


Oh god I hope not. In-game lore is the worst possible justification for game mechanics.

Why's that? I could see an argument that it's not ideal for *changing* game mechanics, but as a way of establishing principles of the game world, story justification can be great. I'm getting a giant kick out of the respawning in Shadow of Mordor, and that's grounded (more or less) in Silmarillion-level stuff.
posted by lumensimus at 7:08 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Wait a second, so Star Citizen already exists and it came out in 2003? How did I never know about this? Forget about answering that, obviously I'm terribly out of the loop...better question, if something like this has been successful for a decade how is Star Citizen different?
posted by trackofalljades at 7:43 PM on October 23, 2014


Game mechanics should be tuned to be fun, not to be consistent with EVE's [bad] space lore. Few things are more infuriating than when CCP makes game-breaking changes because "it makes sense in the universe" or, even worse, "that's how it was supposed to be" (yeah they will break current deployed behavior to make it consistent with some two-year-old internal design doc that was never released).

Lore is also not useful for understanding game mechanics in EVE. In fact, there is no good official or unofficial documentation for the more subtle mechanics. The official stuff by and large doesn't exist except for basic stuff, and the unofficial player-made docs go out of date quickly.

In EVE you learn the nuances of the game engine by talking to other advanced players, keeping up with the patch notes, and running experiments on the test server.
posted by ryanrs at 7:43 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


how is Star Citizen different

EVE didn't steal your kickstarter money.
posted by ryanrs at 7:44 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


Eve sounds great, but I really wish I could just play it without all the other people. I just want a new Privateer! Is that too much to ask?
posted by Apoch at 7:49 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


I'm getting a giant kick out of the respawning in Shadow of Mordor, and that's grounded (more or less) in Silmarillion-level stuff.

Sacrilege. Not to mention that I think the makers of LOTR movies/video games these days are explicitly forbidden, licensing and all that, on using or hinting at anything from the Silmarillion. Pretty sure I commented in a FPP here within the last month about that as well, actually it was mefightclub thread on SoM, but here too I think...
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:54 PM on October 23, 2014


Actual CFC supercap fleet that just happened in EVE Online: A Bad Game.

7:09:27 PM directorbot: All supers get to log in screens -- may have some shit for you to kill -- DO NOT LOG IN
broadcast from lazarus_telraven to supers at 2014-10-24 02:09

[we sit at login screen for 40 minutes]

7:52:13 PM directorbot: Stand down -- Elo and Progod ran away as soon as my fleet undocked
broadcast from lazarus_telraven to supers at 2014-10-24 02:51
posted by ryanrs at 8:04 PM on October 23, 2014 [10 favorites]


Eve itself is a terrible game.

It does make for a lot of other more fun games under the surface though.
posted by angerbot at 8:41 PM on October 23, 2014


Sacrilege.

Your character is explicitly denied the Doom/Gift of Men, though I forget the exact phrasing. Any more and boy oh boy, would I be spoiling things.
posted by lumensimus at 9:30 PM on October 23, 2014 [1 favorite]


The fiction created through this game does sound fantastic. Is there something like a "this week in EVE"; a bit like a space soap opera we could follow?
posted by Captain Fetid at 9:56 PM on October 23, 2014


Oh yeah, there are tons of them. I hesitate to recommend any because I don't actually listen to any of them. But if you google eve podcast you'll find lots.

I suspect many will assume you'll already know a lot about EVE current events. They may be fairly impenetrable to an outsider.
posted by ryanrs at 10:08 PM on October 23, 2014


I am also taking a break from eve. I might be back sometime next year.

We had a pretty good size crew when 256 started the mefi corp early last year. The wormhole system we inhabited was an excellent idea - the downside was that we were all newbs, minus a few folks, meaning we were short on both weapons and tactics. We were almost always on the run, but it was far more fun than a high sec snooze fest, and there were plenty of low-sec fleet roams, for a while. The discipline required to live in the WH was fun, I thought. There were consequences to fucking up that simply don't exist in other games.

I took a break and when I came back we were in an alliance living in null. That was easily the most fun I had in the game. My skills were much better, the alliance had a lot of good players, and the much bigger alliance in our neighborhood that we were/are friends with offered some pretty sweet fleets, and we were poking at the larger meta-game, if only a tiny bit. For the most part I like to play eve mildly to moderately drunk on a free weekend evening and have the field commander tell me where to aim my space laz0rs, and that was definitely on offer. Much fun was had.

It is a very tough game. You have to maintain discipline at all times, or you will die. You have to log on with zero expectations of what is going to happen that evening. The neighborhood might be too dangerous to go outside, you might be able to run some boring PvE for needed money, you might get into a fleet and go on a roam and get blown up 10 times and have no kills to show for it, you might go on a roam and twiddle your thumbs for three hours (very common), you might go on a roam and get on 50 killmails.

I lost my most expensive ships by doing things I knew were absolutely, completely dumb early on in my eve career, things that were completely preventable - instead of losing them in big fleet battles (RIP Loki). This is fairly common.

Something else I genuinely like about the game - other than clicking in space to change your direction to another vector, this is a game you could easily play in a text box if such an interface existed. If you watch youtube videos of eve fights, the zoomed out views typically on display are really not that far off.

The logistics aspect I actually enjoyed somewhat, although I wasn't charged with corp level work on the order that Roland was doing. I think that would burn out a lot of people.
posted by MillMan at 10:20 PM on October 23, 2014 [3 favorites]


Captain Fetid: I take a gander at r/eve every day to stay at least a little in touch with the latest developments, but as ryanrs notes a lot of it is going to seem impenetrable.
posted by MillMan at 10:28 PM on October 23, 2014


I don't regret the 2 years I spend immersed in eve, it was and is a great thing - but a horrid game - I don't regret not being tempted to log back in for these 7 years or so after I decided I had seen all it had to offer me either.

The elephant in the room here is Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous - Eve has had a good run but when these games release in 2015/16 it is hard to see how eve will survive. An epic thing but one certainly in its twilight.
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 1:57 AM on October 24, 2014


A game like this fascinates me but two things keep me away. I don't like playing with or against others - I prefer something where I'm against a system. This is why I've never played WoW even though it is right up my alley. Second is the enormous time suck. I'd prefer something that does not take weeks to build a fleet, etc. Let me know when someone strikes a deal with Iain M Banks estate and I can control a GCU.
posted by Ber at 4:38 AM on October 24, 2014 [2 favorites]


Coming back into EvE yet again, and well, I disagree with almost all of this stock advice given here.

Avoid PvE

One of the things that Eve does brilliantly is that it doesn't impose a single playstyle on players. I like mission-running on evenings when I'm approaching cognitive burnout as an alternative to something like Plants vs. Zombie or Bejeweled. Some people like the long economic game of blasting asteroids. Some people like to play day trader and sit in Jita or Rens all day. Some people like to blow up player ships. Some people like to get blown up. Some people like long or short cons. I like playing stealthy games by taking random daytrips through low, null, or w-space.

Eve is a sandbox and you need to find/make your own fun. What Eve won't do is give you an on-rails PvE progression accompanied by big illusions of changing the structure of the world.

But if you're going to do mission or complex PvE, don't stick to flavor-of-the-month cookie-cutter builds. Mix it up. Try different design philosophies and loadouts. Create handicaps.

2) Join a large layer organization.

Player organizations were a mixed blessing for me. A downside is that your fun is hooked directly to their fun. And so far, that's led to burnout for me in everything from MUDs, to WoW, and in Eve. I like ratting, I don't like ratting to meet a quota. I like exploration, I don't like exploration as a mandatory part of maintaining a wormhole presence.

3) Get the hell out of high sec.

That depends. I found living in null to be pretty dull. It was the wrong neighborhood for consistent PvP, and there was nothing else for me to do in the ships I liked to fly.

However, that was a few expansions ago, and a recent expansion made small-ship exploration viable in null. I've not tried it out. My experience of gatecamping found it even more dull for me than missions, the rare thrill of managing to tackle billion-dollar ships aside.

4) It really helps if you get a big kick out of disrupting other people's gameplay and then rubbing it in their faces on online forums.

That's one playstyle, and likely the most visible one given that it drives a lot of forum and chat conflicts. It's not the only one, and there are corps that specialize in mostly friendly and mutual small-gang and small-ship mutual destruction.

For the most part, my gankers have tended to be wonderfully polite about it. One even reimbursed me for the cost of my ship. Forums everywhere tend to be a megaphone for cranks.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 7:45 AM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]


Any good place to see current animated sovereignty maps? I'd like to watch the fallout from this.
posted by quillbreaker at 8:16 AM on October 24, 2014


I disagree with almost all of this stock advice given here.

All that "stock advice" was prefaced with the following condition: "if you want to experience the parts of EVE that make news on Metafilter." It was advice for people interested in becoming involved in the large-scale battles and strange space politics of EVE.
posted by ryanrs at 9:06 AM on October 24, 2014




Star Citizen https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game is getting lots of buzz in my particular nerd circles, but I have no real knowledge of it.

And http://themittani.com/ is, from what I can tell as an outsider, the main hub for well communicated EVE info.
posted by Jacen at 10:42 AM on October 24, 2014


My apologies.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:31 AM on October 24, 2014


And http://themittani.com/ is, from what I can tell as an outsider, the main hub for well communicated EVE info.

It's one of the things about Eve in that People/groups that play it learn to be really paranoid and tight with information about themselves, so there's not really a large glut of news to support barely one site.
There's mainly evenews24, themittani, and reddit/r/eve for major news sites as far as I can think of . Even then a lot of those will have links about other games, tidbits that don't matter, kill gloating, funny pictures, etc.

Watch any fleet battle that got fraps'd and you'll see a lot of the in-game panels blocked out.
Just one peek at who could be in those chatrooms would let others know who are spies and whatnot.
Heck, even local chat will be blocked so other groups won't know what cyno alts were involved.
posted by Zangal at 3:00 PM on October 24, 2014


http://themittani.com/ is, from what I can tell as an outsider, the main hub for well communicated EVE info

Heh. Goons created TheMittani because the main EVE news site at the time, EVE News 24, was hilariously biased against them and edited by a borderline illiterate. Biased to the point of refusing to print the name of the largest political coalition in the game.

You might be amused to know that the staff of TheMittani are paid entirely in in-game currency, not actual money.
posted by ryanrs at 3:28 PM on October 24, 2014 [1 favorite]


You might be amused to know that the staff of TheMittani are paid entirely in in-game currency, not actual money.

Sometimes I love living in the future.
posted by sparkletone at 7:40 PM on October 24, 2014 [3 favorites]


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