Thousands Rally Against Equal Rights
November 3, 2014 1:20 PM Subscribe
Sunday evening, some of the most prominent organizations that work against LGBT equality joined together in Houston, Texas to rally in defense of “religious freedom.” The event included screening of parts of One Generation Away; Santorum's Docudrama comparing the plight of American Christians to those suffered under Nazi Germany. And a Duck Dynasty star telling Christians that equal rights would lead to them serving prison time. Meanwhile, Houston's LGBT community countered with Positive Impact Day collecting winter clothes.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- frimble
The demographic tidal wave about to roll over these morons can't crest and break soon enough.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:27 PM on November 3, 2014 [38 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 1:27 PM on November 3, 2014 [38 favorites]
Finally! It's getting really bad, with the boycotts against Christian stores, Christians forbidden to work in civil service jobs, and marriage between Christians and non-Christians prohibited.
posted by thelonius at 1:31 PM on November 3, 2014 [31 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 1:31 PM on November 3, 2014 [31 favorites]
I think this use of "freedom" is actually grosser than the use of "life" in anti-abortion actions.
It's a photo finish, but i think they managed to do it.
posted by emptythought at 1:32 PM on November 3, 2014 [25 favorites]
It's a photo finish, but i think they managed to do it.
posted by emptythought at 1:32 PM on November 3, 2014 [25 favorites]
It is totally wrong and unconstitutional for my business to be forced to be allowed to provide services to gaymarried people.
posted by agentofselection at 1:33 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by agentofselection at 1:33 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
They had a "Stop Christophobia!" rally here in Toronto last month. It didn't look very well-attended, and most of the people in attendance were old white people. I still shook my head in disbelief. Is it cognitive dissonance, bad taste, hysteria, or just sheer cluelessness that makes them adopt the language of the actually persecuted? You aren't being murdered for your faith. You can get married anywhere. Your religious freedoms are protected and secure; you can't get fired for your faith. WHAT are you moaning about? "Christophobia." Yes, you assholes make me afraid, but not for the reasons that you think.
posted by erlking at 1:34 PM on November 3, 2014 [12 favorites]
posted by erlking at 1:34 PM on November 3, 2014 [12 favorites]
That the avowed followers of the Prince of Peace can believe that oppressing gays is inherent in their religious expression is utterly mind-blowing, in a there-truly-is-no-hope-for-mankind sort of way.
I'm no Christian, but I'm pretty sure I grok the fundamental teachings of Jesus a hell of a lot better than these "Christians." They could stand to take a few Sunday School lessons from my wife, who is a devout Christian, and definitely lives the Word in an all-encompassing way. She's embarrassed by jokers like these people.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:35 PM on November 3, 2014 [19 favorites]
I'm no Christian, but I'm pretty sure I grok the fundamental teachings of Jesus a hell of a lot better than these "Christians." They could stand to take a few Sunday School lessons from my wife, who is a devout Christian, and definitely lives the Word in an all-encompassing way. She's embarrassed by jokers like these people.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:35 PM on November 3, 2014 [19 favorites]
It's never not astonishing how these folks can ignore the 1st Amendment in both directions.
Religious Conservative: "We need to make gaymarriage illegal cause God says so!"
America: No, because 1st amendment.
Religious Conservative: "They're gonna make it illegal to pray or speak against teh gays in church!"
America: No, again, because 1st amendment.
posted by DGStieber at 1:37 PM on November 3, 2014 [36 favorites]
Religious Conservative: "We need to make gaymarriage illegal cause God says so!"
America: No, because 1st amendment.
Religious Conservative: "They're gonna make it illegal to pray or speak against teh gays in church!"
America: No, again, because 1st amendment.
posted by DGStieber at 1:37 PM on November 3, 2014 [36 favorites]
I call it the racist test.
Replace "gay" in gay marriage with "interracial" and then look at how fucking stupid bigots are.
50 years on we still fight the same stupid fucking fights just with a different group of oppressed people.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on November 3, 2014 [20 favorites]
Replace "gay" in gay marriage with "interracial" and then look at how fucking stupid bigots are.
50 years on we still fight the same stupid fucking fights just with a different group of oppressed people.
posted by Talez at 1:37 PM on November 3, 2014 [20 favorites]
> They had a "Stop Christophobia!" rally here in Toronto last month...WHAT are you moaning about?
When you really boil it down, they're moaning about the fact that not everyone in Toronto is white and Christian, the way it was in the Good Old Days.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:38 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
When you really boil it down, they're moaning about the fact that not everyone in Toronto is white and Christian, the way it was in the Good Old Days.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:38 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
An introductory video about the campaign against HERO (complete with scary lightning strikes) included Pastor Willie Davis, one of the Houston-area religious leaders who assisted with the petition to challenge the ordinance at the ballot. He explained that LGBT nondiscrimination protections are “special rights.” “The Civil Rights Act of 1964,” he explained, “is about equal rights, not special rights.” During his remarks at the event, he added, “How can you call something equal when it divides? How can you call something right when it’s all wrong?”Emphasis mine.
Yes, it's terrible that we're dividing the religious bigots from the religious people who accept that LBGTQ rights are as equal as others, and actually threatening to fine you or put you in jail if you discriminate against transgender people in Houston.
This makes me think of an article on another recent event, likening the fury of these people with those who are on the wrong side of history, lashing out as their cause dies. Unfortunately, this will make life worse in the meantime, with the prominent politicians using this to win the bigot vote.
And in my causal viewing of Duck Dynasty, I was mildly amused by the show. Now I'm revolted that anyone can stand beside Phil Robertson. But hey, money.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:40 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
Robertson then told his captive audience, "America, America, it cannot be said too strongly or too often that this great nation was not founded by religionists, but by Christians. Not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ."No. No no no no no nononononononononononononononononono damn motherfucking NO. This is not true. Treaty of Tripoli you fucking duck caller. It makes it damn clear to the world that the United States is officially fucking secular you ignorant piece of shit.
posted by Talez at 1:43 PM on November 3, 2014 [100 favorites]
filthy light thief: Now I'm revolted that anyone can stand beside Phil Robertson. But hey, money.
I was gonna make a glib remark, and then I really thought about this, and you know, I actually wouldn't stand with Phil Robertson for any amount of money. They say everyone has their price, and that may be true, but I don't know that everyone has their price in every situation.
posted by tzikeh at 1:45 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
I was gonna make a glib remark, and then I really thought about this, and you know, I actually wouldn't stand with Phil Robertson for any amount of money. They say everyone has their price, and that may be true, but I don't know that everyone has their price in every situation.
posted by tzikeh at 1:45 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
It makes it damn clear to the world that the United States is officially fucking secular you ignorant piece of shit.
Revisionist history is the best kind of history. It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:47 PM on November 3, 2014 [8 favorites]
Revisionist history is the best kind of history. It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:47 PM on November 3, 2014 [8 favorites]
The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.- George Washington, Letter to Touro Synagogue, my bolding.
It's worth reading the whole paragraph.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2014 [47 favorites]
He should meet the missus. One of the kindest, funniest, most self-sacrificing, generous Christians I've ever met. She likes to joke to her students," I'm not gay, but my wife is!" She married an atheist, so you can add tolerant to that list as well :)
posted by triage_lazarus at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2014 [10 favorites]
posted by triage_lazarus at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2014 [10 favorites]
It makes it damn clear to the world that the United States is officially fucking secular you ignorant piece of shit.
Yes, that's why he says that "Christian founders" can't be said enough. Gotta repeat that shit constantly to make sure no one bothers to read the actual founding documents.
Hm. Sounds like they have the same problem with understanding America that they do with understanding the tenets of their own religion. None of these folks read the user's manuals.
(And getting in before "LOLXTIAN-IST" -- no, this is ignorant fundamentalism, which has very little to do with "Christians" on the whole. They're just the loud, annoying ones who always make the news, unfortunately.)
posted by tzikeh at 1:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
Yes, that's why he says that "Christian founders" can't be said enough. Gotta repeat that shit constantly to make sure no one bothers to read the actual founding documents.
Hm. Sounds like they have the same problem with understanding America that they do with understanding the tenets of their own religion. None of these folks read the user's manuals.
(And getting in before "LOLXTIAN-IST" -- no, this is ignorant fundamentalism, which has very little to do with "Christians" on the whole. They're just the loud, annoying ones who always make the news, unfortunately.)
posted by tzikeh at 1:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
Top Google result for Santorum - I guess they found some kind of middle ground there?
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
I feel like maybe starting some kind of counter-protest movement where I print up the entire text of the 6th Chapter of the Book of Matthew and just silently hand a copy to each member of a protest like this.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [17 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [17 favorites]
- George Washington, Letter to Touro Synagogue
See, though, these idiots would read that and immediately launch into howls of "See? Even George Washington!!11! would be against this persecution of Christians!"
posted by Thorzdad at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
See, though, these idiots would read that and immediately launch into howls of "See? Even George Washington!!11! would be against this persecution of Christians!"
posted by Thorzdad at 1:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's always really weird to see traditionalists make appeals to the founding fathers. Not just for the obvious reasons (Deism etc) but because even if they had shared the same religious umbrella, it's very rare to find co-religionists seperated by a few hundred years that actually have something in common, or would even recognize one another. Religious identification is all about cultural values, which are constantly shifting. Better to own your present beliefs.
In a similar way, people who practice a harsh brand of Islam like to point back to some pure prior time period that actually never existed; they may actually be the harshest ideologues in history!
posted by selfnoise at 2:00 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
In a similar way, people who practice a harsh brand of Islam like to point back to some pure prior time period that actually never existed; they may actually be the harshest ideologues in history!
posted by selfnoise at 2:00 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
I swear, most of the American evangelical Christians who scream loudest about how being forced to treat QUILTBAG people like human beings and fellow Americans is persecution wouldn't recognize real persecution if it threw them to the lions during halftime at the Super Bowl.
I'd pray for patience and understanding, but I'm not on speaking terms with any of the gods.
posted by starbreaker at 2:00 PM on November 3, 2014 [8 favorites]
I'd pray for patience and understanding, but I'm not on speaking terms with any of the gods.
posted by starbreaker at 2:00 PM on November 3, 2014 [8 favorites]
Frederick Clarkson: "Christian Right Undermines Marriage Equality with Religious Supremacism"
posted by audi alteram partem at 2:02 PM on November 3, 2014
posted by audi alteram partem at 2:02 PM on November 3, 2014
I assume, once we get back to the "War On Christmas" version of these protests, "Stop Christophobia" will be replaced by "Stop SantaClaustrophobia."
posted by ilana at 2:09 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by ilana at 2:09 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
Its about ethics and journalism religious freedom.
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:09 PM on November 3, 2014 [14 favorites]
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 2:09 PM on November 3, 2014 [14 favorites]
starbreaker: I swear, most of the American evangelical Christians who scream loudest about how being forced to treat QUILTBAG people like human beings and fellow Americans is persecution wouldn't recognize real persecution if it threw them to the lions during halftime at the Super Bowl.
If they were thrown to the Lions on Thanksgiving Day, the Christians would have a decent chance of winning....
posted by tzikeh at 2:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [15 favorites]
If they were thrown to the Lions on Thanksgiving Day, the Christians would have a decent chance of winning....
posted by tzikeh at 2:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [15 favorites]
This isn't the best framing of this issue I've ever seen. Let me add some context before this goes totally off the rails into a LOL Xtians thing.
Houston, which has the nation's first openly lesbian mayor, also has a diverse and multi-faceted population, not all of which are in favor of the city council passing the Equal Rights Ordinance championed (as you might imagine) by Mayor Annise Parker. Mayor Parker is incredibly successful as mayor and relatively popular so this looked pretty positive for the ordinance.
Things were going still relatively smoothly for passage of the ordinance until a couple of weeks ago when the news broke that lawyers allegedly working pro bono for the city council and allegedly extending their reach requested the contents of the sermons of several of the pastors of large congregations in the city.
That's when people lost their ever-loving minds, Fox News descended, and things just got ridiculous. The subpoenas were quickly retracted, the Republicans jumped on the issue with both feet (quickly putting together the most base and obvious 'a vote for Republicans is a vote for religious freedom. Remember the subpoenas of October!' style mailer right during the start of early voting). And now here we are.
posted by librarylis at 2:13 PM on November 3, 2014 [11 favorites]
Houston, which has the nation's first openly lesbian mayor, also has a diverse and multi-faceted population, not all of which are in favor of the city council passing the Equal Rights Ordinance championed (as you might imagine) by Mayor Annise Parker. Mayor Parker is incredibly successful as mayor and relatively popular so this looked pretty positive for the ordinance.
Things were going still relatively smoothly for passage of the ordinance until a couple of weeks ago when the news broke that lawyers allegedly working pro bono for the city council and allegedly extending their reach requested the contents of the sermons of several of the pastors of large congregations in the city.
That's when people lost their ever-loving minds, Fox News descended, and things just got ridiculous. The subpoenas were quickly retracted, the Republicans jumped on the issue with both feet (quickly putting together the most base and obvious 'a vote for Republicans is a vote for religious freedom. Remember the subpoenas of October!' style mailer right during the start of early voting). And now here we are.
posted by librarylis at 2:13 PM on November 3, 2014 [11 favorites]
lawyers allegedly working pro bono for the city council and allegedly extending their reach requested the contents of the sermons of several of the pastors of large congregations in the city.
Oh, gross.
posted by tzikeh at 2:17 PM on November 3, 2014 [5 favorites]
Oh, gross.
posted by tzikeh at 2:17 PM on November 3, 2014 [5 favorites]
SantaClaustrophobia: the fear of being trapped inside an oversized suit of red and white. I have no mouth and I must chant HO HO HO!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:18 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:18 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
Oh god, is Houston going to try and actually enforce the laws prohibiting non-profit churches from endorsing candidates?
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:19 PM on November 3, 2014 [26 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:19 PM on November 3, 2014 [26 favorites]
It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
This Bible, to be precise.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:20 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
This Bible, to be precise.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:20 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
You can quote any Founding Father you want; they may have talked the talk, but a nation founded where only white, land-owning males were given the right to vote puts the lie to the pontifications (that lying bigots have used to support them for almost 250 years now). Do I HAVE to add "Washington owned slaves"? No, the Founding Fathers are pretty good role models for most of the "everythingbutchristianophobes"; I like to think this country has made progress in almost 250 years... maybe 50 years worth.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:26 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:26 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah. If they were truly paragons of equality they would have advanced their thought processes through two hundred and something years of societal advancement and implemented it immediately. Fuck them and their utterly amazing for the time liberalism!
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
lawyers allegedly working pro bono for the city council and allegedly extending their reach requested the contents of the sermons of several of the pastors of large congregations in the city. Oh, gross.
Sermons are intended to be public, are they not? The only thing strange about this is that the city's lawyers didn't just download the sermons off the churches' websites.
"These sermons have direct bearing on the facts being disputed in this lawsuit — a lawsuit initiated by the churches themselves, not by the city...If the city’s subpoenas involved the speeches of a CEO in an otherwise identical lawsuit, no one would bat an eye at the obvious necessity of collecting and consulting such relevant material in the case. What is it about the fact that these public speeches were sermons that significantly changes that?"
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
Sermons are intended to be public, are they not? The only thing strange about this is that the city's lawyers didn't just download the sermons off the churches' websites.
"These sermons have direct bearing on the facts being disputed in this lawsuit — a lawsuit initiated by the churches themselves, not by the city...If the city’s subpoenas involved the speeches of a CEO in an otherwise identical lawsuit, no one would bat an eye at the obvious necessity of collecting and consulting such relevant material in the case. What is it about the fact that these public speeches were sermons that significantly changes that?"
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:30 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
Co-opting the language of oppressed groups for use by the majority effectively creates an alternate reality where they are never wrong - like how fascist retortic believes at the same time they are triumphant and powerful and overwhelming but also totally besieged by opposition that will squash it like a bug in an instant.
posted by The Whelk at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2014 [26 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:34 PM on November 3, 2014 [26 favorites]
lawyers allegedly working pro bono for the city council and allegedly extending their reach requested the contents of the sermons of several of the pastors of large congregations in the city.
> Oh, gross.
Actually, it's complex to my (non-lawyer) eyes. From the Houston Chronicle:
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2014 [21 favorites]
> Oh, gross.
Actually, it's complex to my (non-lawyer) eyes. From the Houston Chronicle:
City attorneys issued subpoenas last month during the case's discovery phase, seeking, among other communications, "all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO, the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession."The Washington Post got more context:
“The subpoenas were issued to pastors who have been involved in the political campaign to organize a repeal of Houston’s new equal rights ordinance,” said Janice Evans, chief policy officer to the mayor, in a statement. “It is part of the discovery process in a lawsuit brought by opponents of the ordinance, a group that is tied to the pastors who have received the subpoenas.”It's messy, but it's also messy when pastors preach for political action against civil rights, under the guise of freedoms of religion and speech.
...
“The pastors made their sermons relevant to the case by using the pulpit to do political organizing,” Evans said in her statement. “This included encouraging congregation members to sign petitions and help gather signatures for equal rights ordinance foes. The issue is whether they were speaking from the pulpit for the purpose of politics. If so, it is not protected speech.”
posted by filthy light thief at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2014 [21 favorites]
Actually, they are being persecuted.
It's just they think it's because they're Christian when it's really because they're assholes.
posted by fullerine at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2014 [27 favorites]
It's just they think it's because they're Christian when it's really because they're assholes.
posted by fullerine at 2:42 PM on November 3, 2014 [27 favorites]
Co-opting the language of oppressed groups for use by the majority effectively creates an alternate reality where they are never wrong
I feel like I am seeing this a lot more in the last couple of years, but maybe it is just my noticing what has always been happening. But it is super gross and I wish people would quit it already.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:43 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
I feel like I am seeing this a lot more in the last couple of years, but maybe it is just my noticing what has always been happening. But it is super gross and I wish people would quit it already.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:43 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
> This Bible, to be precise.
Now that is gross: Duck Commander Faith and Family Bible
posted by filthy light thief at 2:44 PM on November 3, 2014
> This Bible, to be precise.
Now that is gross: Duck Commander Faith and Family Bible
The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible features new stories and testimonials by Phil, the Robertson family patriarch, and his son Al, a pastor with more than 22 years of experience. Together they offer fresh wisdom on biblical values and how everyday people can apply them to their lives.Putting the "Uck" in Duck Commander.
Powered by relentless dedication to sharing the gospel and celebrating Christ’s kingdom, the Robertson family has become influential to contemporary evangelism and discipleship. The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible unleashes the power of their practical insight into critical faith issues, founded on God’s Word.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:44 PM on November 3, 2014
The continuing open expression of outright bigotry is both continually depressing, astounding, and darkly humourous. This is the sort of bullshit that even the likes of Beavis and Butthead can see through.
posted by juiceCake at 2:50 PM on November 3, 2014
posted by juiceCake at 2:50 PM on November 3, 2014
The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible features new stories and testimonials
Re-writing the Holy Word of The Lord? In any Godly nation these heretics would be burned at the stake and their souls sent to feed the devil they worship.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:53 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
Re-writing the Holy Word of The Lord? In any Godly nation these heretics would be burned at the stake and their souls sent to feed the devil they worship.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:53 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
In a similar way, people who practice a harsh brand of Islam like to point back to some pure prior time period that actually never existed
As it was with Cato, as it was with Confucius, as it was, as it was. Religion and Conservatism are natural bedfellows when mythologizing the past so as to craft an unquestionable and "pure" cultural identity.
Heart of Atlanta v. United States
In case anybody for a second thought any of this was novel.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
As it was with Cato, as it was with Confucius, as it was, as it was. Religion and Conservatism are natural bedfellows when mythologizing the past so as to craft an unquestionable and "pure" cultural identity.
Heart of Atlanta v. United States
In case anybody for a second thought any of this was novel.
posted by Navelgazer at 2:57 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think this use of "freedom" is actually grosser than the use of "life" in anti-abortion actions.
Good rule of thumb: If a group has the word "freedom" in its name, it's usually working very hard to restrict yours.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:05 PM on November 3, 2014 [14 favorites]
Good rule of thumb: If a group has the word "freedom" in its name, it's usually working very hard to restrict yours.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:05 PM on November 3, 2014 [14 favorites]
like how fascist retortic believes at the same time they are triumphant and powerful and overwhelming but also totally besieged by opposition that will squash it like a bug in an instant.
The Persecuted Hegemon
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:06 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
The Persecuted Hegemon
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:06 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
like how fascist retortic believes at the same time they are triumphant and powerful and overwhelming but also totally besieged by opposition that will squash it like a bug in an instant.
Incidentally, this is also how a lot of non-profit/political fundraising copy works (DCCC, anyone?): We're LOSING THIS FIGHT* oh noes the world is ending, everything is the worst, we'll all be engulfed in a fiery death BUT if you give us $10, we will make our overwhelming people-power known and CRUSH our enemies."
*Senate, climate change, reproductive rights, etc.
posted by Ragini at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
Incidentally, this is also how a lot of non-profit/political fundraising copy works (DCCC, anyone?): We're LOSING THIS FIGHT* oh noes the world is ending, everything is the worst, we'll all be engulfed in a fiery death BUT if you give us $10, we will make our overwhelming people-power known and CRUSH our enemies."
*Senate, climate change, reproductive rights, etc.
posted by Ragini at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
Just a reminder that these people will definitely be voting tomorrow.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [20 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 3:10 PM on November 3, 2014 [20 favorites]
It's messy, but it's also messy when pastors preach for political action against civil rights, under the guise of freedoms of religion and speech.
Do you think it's also messy when pastors preach for political action FOR civil rights under the guise of freedoms of religion and speech?
You'd think that lawyers, working pro bono or not, would know better than to draft a subpoena demanding all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to homosexuality
You don't have to agree with these anti-gay nutjobs to think the city was way off base.
posted by layceepee at 3:15 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
Do you think it's also messy when pastors preach for political action FOR civil rights under the guise of freedoms of religion and speech?
You'd think that lawyers, working pro bono or not, would know better than to draft a subpoena demanding all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to homosexuality
You don't have to agree with these anti-gay nutjobs to think the city was way off base.
posted by layceepee at 3:15 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
The part where city lawyers asked for sermons is being grossly misrepresented. The CHURCHES sued the city, not the other way around. And when you sue someone you open the doors for a phase in the process called "discovery". During this phase lawyers on both sides can demand documents relevant to the case from the other side.
Since the lawsuit was from the religious groups claiming that their sermons would be prohibited under the proposed law, subpoenaing the sermons is a perfectly reasonable thing.
Don't want to undergo discovery? Don't start a lawsuit. In fact, the fear of discovery keeps a lot of corporations and other groups from suing randomly.
posted by sotonohito at 3:19 PM on November 3, 2014 [45 favorites]
Since the lawsuit was from the religious groups claiming that their sermons would be prohibited under the proposed law, subpoenaing the sermons is a perfectly reasonable thing.
Don't want to undergo discovery? Don't start a lawsuit. In fact, the fear of discovery keeps a lot of corporations and other groups from suing randomly.
posted by sotonohito at 3:19 PM on November 3, 2014 [45 favorites]
Just a reminder that these people will definitely be voting tomorrow.
Which is why it's important everyone DO THIER CIVIC DUTY and vote tomorrow.
Dont make me show you a frowning Captain America. Go and GET YOUR STICKER.
posted by The Whelk at 3:20 PM on November 3, 2014 [23 favorites]
Which is why it's important everyone DO THIER CIVIC DUTY and vote tomorrow.
Dont make me show you a frowning Captain America. Go and GET YOUR STICKER.
posted by The Whelk at 3:20 PM on November 3, 2014 [23 favorites]
It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
This Bible, to be precise.
When I clicked on that Amazon link I got a pop up reminding me to use Amazon Smile to give a cut to my chosen charity-Planned Parenthood of Texas. It made me actually consider buying it, but only for a second.
posted by TedW at 3:25 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
This Bible, to be precise.
When I clicked on that Amazon link I got a pop up reminding me to use Amazon Smile to give a cut to my chosen charity-Planned Parenthood of Texas. It made me actually consider buying it, but only for a second.
posted by TedW at 3:25 PM on November 3, 2014 [6 favorites]
like how fascist retortic believes at the same time they are triumphant and powerful and overwhelming but also totally besieged by opposition that will squash it like a bug in an instant
Can't have Fascism without more than a little bit of Jesus. There's so much of Umberto Eco's list going on in modern Christianity that his essay on Fascism reads like a cookbook.
God's word is all, whether it is about marriage or evolution or climate change:
Law enforcement already mostly looks the other way when these violations happen; we already saw this with the Mormon Church, whose followers and leadership manipulated state laws by way of tax evasion.
Right-wing domestic terrorism and control of various parts of the American military by Christian extremists is mostly not discussed in the national media, with very few unavoidable exceptions.
Then the media holds these people's hands and gives them hours of uncritical airtime. Fox News is not the only outlet for free publicity for religious extremism, though certainly popular. Can't call them or their broad audience out for it, either, or you get accused of censorship, intolerance or treason.
Voting doesn't work anymore. Both major parties effectively work with or compromise with extremists to further their political goals. Of late, particularly on women's health issues.
To say the Fascist undercurrent perpetuated by religious people is dangerous would be an understatement, with respect to how deeply these people's views and values already permeate through the social, economic and political culture. They claim to be powerless while mostly holding the reins.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:31 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
Can't have Fascism without more than a little bit of Jesus. There's so much of Umberto Eco's list going on in modern Christianity that his essay on Fascism reads like a cookbook.
God's word is all, whether it is about marriage or evolution or climate change:
[T]here can be no advancement of learning. Truth has been already spelled out once and for all, and we can only keep interpreting its obscure message...To question God's authority figures is to align one's self with God's enemies:
Thinking is a form of emasculation. Therefore culture is suspect insofar as it is identified with critical attitudes... No syncretistic faith can withstand analytical criticism. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason...Cultural enemies are gay people, among other abstractly and ill-defined cultural and intellectual elites:
The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders...
That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups...One can be redeemed by doing the Lord's work against his enemies, advocating and performing acts of secession, treason, violence and murder to accomplish these goals, whether committing acts of arson at a gay nightclub or shooting a doctor:
The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak...
For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. It is bad because life is permanent warfare. This, however, brings about an Armageddon complex. Since enemies have to be defeated, there must be a final battle, after which the movement will have control of the world...It's easy to see these people, the ones who run these and other events, for the villains that they are. Even if I feel a little bad for the followers, so easily manipulated, there aren't many easy answers for how to keep their Fascist impulses in check.
By contrast, the Ur-Fascist hero craves heroic death, advertised as the best reward for a heroic life. The Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.
Law enforcement already mostly looks the other way when these violations happen; we already saw this with the Mormon Church, whose followers and leadership manipulated state laws by way of tax evasion.
Right-wing domestic terrorism and control of various parts of the American military by Christian extremists is mostly not discussed in the national media, with very few unavoidable exceptions.
Then the media holds these people's hands and gives them hours of uncritical airtime. Fox News is not the only outlet for free publicity for religious extremism, though certainly popular. Can't call them or their broad audience out for it, either, or you get accused of censorship, intolerance or treason.
Voting doesn't work anymore. Both major parties effectively work with or compromise with extremists to further their political goals. Of late, particularly on women's health issues.
To say the Fascist undercurrent perpetuated by religious people is dangerous would be an understatement, with respect to how deeply these people's views and values already permeate through the social, economic and political culture. They claim to be powerless while mostly holding the reins.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:31 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
While the lawyers were legally correct, they were politically foolish. Houston, like much of Texas, is broad: politically, culturally, and geographically. When trying to guide an area like this and you are part of the rising new power, you need to be sensitive to those on the losing side. There is a reason so many things maintain their Mexican/Spanish names in Texas, the new powerhouses in the 19th century may have been more aware of this dynamic so appealed to some clinging to nativist sentiments by conceding on unimportant issues. Luckily it looks like the mayor's office is now of this mindset.
posted by wobumingbai at 3:42 PM on November 3, 2014
posted by wobumingbai at 3:42 PM on November 3, 2014
it's also messy when pastors preach for political action against civil rights
I don't see what dog Houston has in that fight. Tax exemption is generally the jurisdiction of the feds, not a municipality.
posted by jpe at 3:44 PM on November 3, 2014
I don't see what dog Houston has in that fight. Tax exemption is generally the jurisdiction of the feds, not a municipality.
posted by jpe at 3:44 PM on November 3, 2014
Since the lawsuit was from the religious groups claiming that their sermons would be prohibited under the proposed law
No, the lawsuit was over whether the City Secretary has the statutory authority to reject signatures suspected of being fraudulent.
posted by jpe at 3:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
No, the lawsuit was over whether the City Secretary has the statutory authority to reject signatures suspected of being fraudulent.
posted by jpe at 3:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
Good rule of thumb: If a group has the word "freedom" in its name, it's usually working very hard to restrict yours.
Wow, right on. This Bible: The stars of the hit TV show Duck Dynasty are committed to upholding five core values both on and off the screen: faith, family, fellowship, forgiveness, and freedom.
posted by peeedro at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2014
Wow, right on. This Bible: The stars of the hit TV show Duck Dynasty are committed to upholding five core values both on and off the screen: faith, family, fellowship, forgiveness, and freedom.
posted by peeedro at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2014
SantaClaustrophobia: the fear of being trapped inside an oversized suit of red and white.
Fear of getting stuck in chimneys, I would think.
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:35 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
Fear of getting stuck in chimneys, I would think.
posted by Celsius1414 at 4:35 PM on November 3, 2014 [7 favorites]
This form of Christianity is just so very foreign to me. This Sunday I went to church with my family and took communion from our lovely priest, who is a lesbian. She gave a moving sermon about beginnings and endings. We put candles on the altar for All Saints' Day. Then we all grooved out to "Spirit in the Sky." Afterwards there was coffee and donuts and commiseration about the early snow. Nobody got political, or angry, or paranoid. It was just a nice time spent with fellow believers. I DO go to church in Rhode Island, though. Roger Willliams got the state started on the right foot.
posted by Biblio at 4:38 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
posted by Biblio at 4:38 PM on November 3, 2014 [18 favorites]
Talez: Replace "gay" in gay marriage with "interracial" and then look at how fucking stupid bigots are.
50 years on we still fight the same stupid fucking fights just with a different group of oppressed people.
See also the current normalization of anti-trans slurs, and just transphobic attitudes and language in general. In major media too, like how often colbert says "Tr***y" and cracks awful jokes on a show that gets like millions of viewers. That shit is going to seem like people saying "darkies" on tv by the time i'm middle aged.
I hope.
I wonder what the next big ones are going to be. Humans suck, we'll invent something.
posted by emptythought at 5:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
50 years on we still fight the same stupid fucking fights just with a different group of oppressed people.
See also the current normalization of anti-trans slurs, and just transphobic attitudes and language in general. In major media too, like how often colbert says "Tr***y" and cracks awful jokes on a show that gets like millions of viewers. That shit is going to seem like people saying "darkies" on tv by the time i'm middle aged.
I hope.
I wonder what the next big ones are going to be. Humans suck, we'll invent something.
posted by emptythought at 5:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
I also keep wondering what my future grandchildren will be ashamed of about me, regarding prejudices I don't even realize i hold.
I've mentioned before how much I liked It's Always Sunny's treatment of the trans character on that show, where she is well-adjusted and happy in her life, not at all played for camp, and in fact the series frames the reason that Mac couldn't be with her (his only real chance to be happy) not as a problem with her being trans, but with him being homophobic and close-minded. And then she's given a happy ending, with a guy far more open-minded and capable of love than Mac was, and a child to boot. In a show built on cruelty, they seemed to take a transgressive joy in her normalcy and ability to not be sucked into the darkness of the rest of the gang. (I stopped watching after that episode, roughly, so they may well have done awful things to her after that. I don.t know.)
But still, her character was only ever known as "The Tranny." That will really, really not age well. For shame. Everybody, please understand that for the hateful slur that it is, going forward. Please.
(edit: she is given a name, Carmen, though the constant use of the slur blocked her actual character name from my mind, sadly.)
posted by Navelgazer at 6:43 PM on November 3, 2014
I've mentioned before how much I liked It's Always Sunny's treatment of the trans character on that show, where she is well-adjusted and happy in her life, not at all played for camp, and in fact the series frames the reason that Mac couldn't be with her (his only real chance to be happy) not as a problem with her being trans, but with him being homophobic and close-minded. And then she's given a happy ending, with a guy far more open-minded and capable of love than Mac was, and a child to boot. In a show built on cruelty, they seemed to take a transgressive joy in her normalcy and ability to not be sucked into the darkness of the rest of the gang. (I stopped watching after that episode, roughly, so they may well have done awful things to her after that. I don.t know.)
But still, her character was only ever known as "The Tranny." That will really, really not age well. For shame. Everybody, please understand that for the hateful slur that it is, going forward. Please.
(edit: she is given a name, Carmen, though the constant use of the slur blocked her actual character name from my mind, sadly.)
posted by Navelgazer at 6:43 PM on November 3, 2014
I'm confused by the whole duck thing. If Aquinas reasoned that even dogs have no souls, what chance does mere poultry have of attaining salvation?
posted by newdaddy at 6:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by newdaddy at 6:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
And lo, as it had been told unto Samuel, the true faithful would know me at once by my prophet, for he had heralded himself by the call of shotguns, as well as mallards, and that is how you would know whom to cast out, by the word of the bearded man from the humble swamp.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 6:52 PM on November 3, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's always really weird to see traditionalists make appeals to the founding fathers.
If we can't live by the words of a bunch of dead, white, male, outhouse-pooping, wooden-denture-wearing, slave-owning traitors to their King, who *can* we believe?
ooh look a Bible
posted by uosuaq at 6:56 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
If we can't live by the words of a bunch of dead, white, male, outhouse-pooping, wooden-denture-wearing, slave-owning traitors to their King, who *can* we believe?
ooh look a Bible
posted by uosuaq at 6:56 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
It's like the Pick'n'Choose Bible, which Robertson and his ilk use.
> This Bible, to be precise.
Now that is gross:
Duck Commander Faith and Family Bible
The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible features new stories and testimonials by Phil, the Robertson family patriarch, and his son Al, a pastor with more than 22 years of experience. Together they offer fresh wisdom on biblical values and how everyday people can apply them to their lives.
Powered by relentless dedication to sharing the gospel and celebrating Christ’s kingdom, the Robertson family has become influential to contemporary evangelism and discipleship. The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible unleashes the power of their practical insight into critical faith issues, founded on God’s Word.
Does it seem incredibly strange to anyone else that the subject of "Powered by..." in that sentence is their family? Why would you describe your family in such an utterly inhuman-sounding way, and one which seems more suited to characterizing how a machine (or, I guess, a corporation) works than people?
posted by clockzero at 7:00 PM on November 3, 2014
> This Bible, to be precise.
Now that is gross:
Duck Commander Faith and Family Bible
The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible features new stories and testimonials by Phil, the Robertson family patriarch, and his son Al, a pastor with more than 22 years of experience. Together they offer fresh wisdom on biblical values and how everyday people can apply them to their lives.
Powered by relentless dedication to sharing the gospel and celebrating Christ’s kingdom, the Robertson family has become influential to contemporary evangelism and discipleship. The Duck Commander® Faith and Family Bible unleashes the power of their practical insight into critical faith issues, founded on God’s Word.
Does it seem incredibly strange to anyone else that the subject of "Powered by..." in that sentence is their family? Why would you describe your family in such an utterly inhuman-sounding way, and one which seems more suited to characterizing how a machine (or, I guess, a corporation) works than people?
posted by clockzero at 7:00 PM on November 3, 2014
I've mentioned before how much I liked It's Always Sunny's treatment of the trans character on that show.... But still, her character was only ever known as "The Tranny." That will really, really not age well.
It's the Gang, particularly Mac and Dennis, who keep saying "The Tranny" all the time, and as you point out part of the point of Carmen is to show how incredibly homophobic and transphobic they are. You're saying that won't age well because in the future people will think them calling her that is really gross, but actually I'd argue that the show is saying everybody should already be thinking that. It seems to me that the show is already arguing that this is a term used by shitty people.
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:29 PM on November 3, 2014 [10 favorites]
It's the Gang, particularly Mac and Dennis, who keep saying "The Tranny" all the time, and as you point out part of the point of Carmen is to show how incredibly homophobic and transphobic they are. You're saying that won't age well because in the future people will think them calling her that is really gross, but actually I'd argue that the show is saying everybody should already be thinking that. It seems to me that the show is already arguing that this is a term used by shitty people.
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:29 PM on November 3, 2014 [10 favorites]
Biblio wrote:
posted by starbreaker at 8:01 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
This form of Christianity is just so very foreign to me. This Sunday I went to church with my family and took communion from our lovely priest, who is a lesbian. She gave a moving sermon about beginnings and endings.If it's foreign to you, be grateful. I deal with it more often, and have taken to calling adherents of this sort of intolerant, legalistic Christianity a gang of bacon-eating Pharisees. If Jesus came back, they'd demand he be crucified again -- mainly because they're the sort of people he'd chase out of the Temple with a whip.
posted by starbreaker at 8:01 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
As a Houstonian, I have rarely been as pround of my votes as I have been for the ones for Annise Parker.
I couldn't care less that's she's gay. And I haven't agreed with all of her local calls.
But she knows what she's doing. I'd trust her on this.
posted by Cyrano at 8:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
I couldn't care less that's she's gay. And I haven't agreed with all of her local calls.
But she knows what she's doing. I'd trust her on this.
posted by Cyrano at 8:48 PM on November 3, 2014 [1 favorite]
Actually, they are being persecuted. It's just they think it's because they're Christian when it's really because they're assholes.
But America is an Asshole nation, founded by Assholes!
IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:01 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
But America is an Asshole nation, founded by Assholes!
IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:01 PM on November 3, 2014 [3 favorites]
I've been following the HERO stuff pretty closely because of how quickly and messily opponents zeroed in on "omg male perverts in your daughter's bathroom stall" and how solid Mayor Parker was on retaining trans inclusion when it would have been easy to drop it. So it was a particularly good call linking to TransGriot, since Monica Roberts has been all over it. It's kind of a bummer to see kneejerk gasps to the subpoena thing, when in context they were totally justified and called for, but it's not like that was a challenge they could win in the first place.
As for the Duck Dynasty guy, I got more problems than pride, so I could easily be paid to stand next to him, but I have serious doubts about whether he'd stand next to me. Anyway, another pithy fact to spur people to action on Tuesday: one of Louisiana's House districts has both former-friend-of-the-Dynasty Vance McAllister (I think they withdrew their endorsement after his adultery scandal) and nephew-of-Phil-Robertson Zach Dasher running.
posted by Corinth at 10:26 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
As for the Duck Dynasty guy, I got more problems than pride, so I could easily be paid to stand next to him, but I have serious doubts about whether he'd stand next to me. Anyway, another pithy fact to spur people to action on Tuesday: one of Louisiana's House districts has both former-friend-of-the-Dynasty Vance McAllister (I think they withdrew their endorsement after his adultery scandal) and nephew-of-Phil-Robertson Zach Dasher running.
posted by Corinth at 10:26 PM on November 3, 2014 [2 favorites]
This form of Christianity is just so very foreign to me. This Sunday I went to church with my family and took communion from our lovely priest, who is a lesbian.
This form of Christianity is very foreign to all but a few congregations in many states that aren't as lucky as Rhode Island -- such as my state, Tennessee. Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 are coin of the realm here. Rick Santorum won the GOP primary here in 2012. The state electorate looks likely today to pass a draconian amendment that would enshrine abortion prohibitions (and by extension, later on, any private sexual matters that the state legislature feels it should have the right to govern) in the state constitution. The state legislature is full of Neanderthals who think that gay people are a malevolent underground army of pedophiles recruiting kids and turning them gay. In short, TN (not to mention much of the South) is still often a hard place to live as a gay person unless you're in one of the big cities. Even then, you have few if any legal protections, and if you have any locally, the state legislature is prone to reversing them instantly. It's rough knowing that as a gay person you could be thrown back to the 1920s (and not in a good, happy, let's-do-the-Charleston way) on a dime, if you aren't already living there.
posted by blucevalo at 5:56 AM on November 4, 2014
This form of Christianity is very foreign to all but a few congregations in many states that aren't as lucky as Rhode Island -- such as my state, Tennessee. Romans 1 and Leviticus 18 are coin of the realm here. Rick Santorum won the GOP primary here in 2012. The state electorate looks likely today to pass a draconian amendment that would enshrine abortion prohibitions (and by extension, later on, any private sexual matters that the state legislature feels it should have the right to govern) in the state constitution. The state legislature is full of Neanderthals who think that gay people are a malevolent underground army of pedophiles recruiting kids and turning them gay. In short, TN (not to mention much of the South) is still often a hard place to live as a gay person unless you're in one of the big cities. Even then, you have few if any legal protections, and if you have any locally, the state legislature is prone to reversing them instantly. It's rough knowing that as a gay person you could be thrown back to the 1920s (and not in a good, happy, let's-do-the-Charleston way) on a dime, if you aren't already living there.
posted by blucevalo at 5:56 AM on November 4, 2014
It's the Gang, particularly Mac and Dennis, who keep saying "The Tranny" all the time, and as you point out part of the point of Carmen is to show how incredibly homophobic and transphobic they are. You're saying that won't age well because in the future people will think them calling her that is really gross, but actually I'd argue that the show is saying everybody should already be thinking that. It seems to me that the show is already arguing that this is a term used by shitty people.
This. When people watch It's Always Sunny you have to eventually get that The Gang have some of the worst aspects of humanity. The show is written so they're a howto guide on not to act.
posted by Talez at 7:59 AM on November 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
This. When people watch It's Always Sunny you have to eventually get that The Gang have some of the worst aspects of humanity. The show is written so they're a howto guide on not to act.
posted by Talez at 7:59 AM on November 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
@jpe, you are right and I am wrong. Still, the sermons were relevant to the case and those who are making a big deal out of them being requested in discovery are displaying either a total lack of understanding of how lawsuits work or a naked attempt to garner political sympathy. Probably the latter.
@wobumingbai, I'll agree that it wasn't the most politically inspired move. OTOH, I'd hope that lawyers would be focused on winning, not on politics.
posted by sotonohito at 8:20 AM on November 4, 2014
@wobumingbai, I'll agree that it wasn't the most politically inspired move. OTOH, I'd hope that lawyers would be focused on winning, not on politics.
posted by sotonohito at 8:20 AM on November 4, 2014
Since the lawsuit was from the religious groups claiming that their sermons would be prohibited under the proposed law
No, the lawsuit was over whether the City Secretary has the statutory authority to reject signatures suspected of being fraudulent.
Just to expand on this, the group opposed to the Equal Rights Ordinance needed somewhere around 17,000 signatures for this to be put on the ballot for the election today. They claimed they got 50,000, but volunteers showed up to count and verify the signatures and less than the required amount were legitimate (but it was pretty close, just over 16,000 or something). Rumor has it that a lot of the bad signatures were from people who live in the more conservative suburbs, and therefore are not Houston residents and can't be counted, or that they weren't circulated properly.
I read the whole subpoena when it came out, and it also requested all emails pertaining to Mayor Annise Parker, the HERO, etc... and it blew my mind that the pastors got upset about the attorneys wanting their sermons, which they all put recordings of on their websites by Sunday night, but didn't have a problem with getting asked for private correspondence.
Furthermore as a Houstonian I've seen so many people saying stuff like "The gays want to scrutinize our sermons for anything they think we should be ashamed of, then their gonna drag it into the news and try to shame us for our Christian beliefs!" If only they'd stop believing in all this shameful stuff we wouldn't have this problem...
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
No, the lawsuit was over whether the City Secretary has the statutory authority to reject signatures suspected of being fraudulent.
Just to expand on this, the group opposed to the Equal Rights Ordinance needed somewhere around 17,000 signatures for this to be put on the ballot for the election today. They claimed they got 50,000, but volunteers showed up to count and verify the signatures and less than the required amount were legitimate (but it was pretty close, just over 16,000 or something). Rumor has it that a lot of the bad signatures were from people who live in the more conservative suburbs, and therefore are not Houston residents and can't be counted, or that they weren't circulated properly.
I read the whole subpoena when it came out, and it also requested all emails pertaining to Mayor Annise Parker, the HERO, etc... and it blew my mind that the pastors got upset about the attorneys wanting their sermons, which they all put recordings of on their websites by Sunday night, but didn't have a problem with getting asked for private correspondence.
Furthermore as a Houstonian I've seen so many people saying stuff like "The gays want to scrutinize our sermons for anything they think we should be ashamed of, then their gonna drag it into the news and try to shame us for our Christian beliefs!" If only they'd stop believing in all this shameful stuff we wouldn't have this problem...
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2014 [1 favorite]
That's when people lost their ever-loving minds, Fox News descended, and things just got ridiculous. The subpoenas were quickly retracted, the Republicans jumped on the issue with both feet (quickly putting together the most base and obvious 'a vote for Republicans is a vote for religious freedom. Remember the subpoenas of October!' style mailer right during the start of early voting). And now here we are.
At least it wasn't Plan A which was get the ERO on the Houston ballot then push the canard that creepy men would claim to be trans and molest your daughters in public bathrooms if you didn't go vote it down. Yes this is a real thing I've heard constantly since the ERO emerged.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:23 AM on November 4, 2014
At least it wasn't Plan A which was get the ERO on the Houston ballot then push the canard that creepy men would claim to be trans and molest your daughters in public bathrooms if you didn't go vote it down. Yes this is a real thing I've heard constantly since the ERO emerged.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:23 AM on November 4, 2014
But Toast, if Pastor Biblical says it, it must be true! Its Biblical! And we should never be ashamed of the truth! They are persecuting us for faith in the truth!
posted by Jacen at 12:57 PM on November 4, 2014
posted by Jacen at 12:57 PM on November 4, 2014
This Sunday I went to church with my family and took communion from our lovely priest, who is a lesbian. She gave a moving sermon about beginnings and endings. We put candles on the altar for All Saints' Day. Then we all grooved out to "Spirit in the Sky." Afterwards there was coffee and donuts and commiseration about the early snow.
Let me guess: Unitarian?
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:23 PM on November 4, 2014 [3 favorites]
Let me guess: Unitarian?
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:23 PM on November 4, 2014 [3 favorites]
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posted by Talez at 1:23 PM on November 3, 2014 [16 favorites]