Billy Joel: life/career overview

November 24, 2014 5:55 PM

A lengthy New Yorker overview of Billy Joel's life and career: Thirty-Three-Hit Wonder.
posted by paleyellowwithorange (98 comments total)

I read this at the same time as I was watching the Leo/Lurhmann Great Gatsby. Now they are jumbled up in my head.

Watching the Wolf of Wall Street a few weeks later just made it worse.
posted by mwhybark at 6:15 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

I read this a little while ago... It's a great article. I liked how the writer growing up had actually lived next door to Billy Joel. It's also cool that Christie Brinkley is still friendly with him. It was astounding to read, however, that most of Billy Joel's earnings had been stolen from him by his manager, and whatever he has now is mostly the result of his work in the 90's, and thanks to a lawsuit. A very fine piece of writing!
posted by Nevin at 6:24 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

I read the title of this thread as

Billy Joel: life/career over
posted by Existential Dread at 6:29 PM on November 24, 2014 [4 favorites]

I can't stand his music, but found this pretty compelling reading.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:50 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]

I can't stand his music, but found this pretty compelling reading.

I probably only know about five or ten of Joel's songs, but I generally find him a personable, interesting and self-aware interview/article subject.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 6:54 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

From The Kroll Show, the obligatory (and strangely adorable) Adventures of Young Billy Joel.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:59 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]

My favorite factoid about Billy Joel is he put his songs on Rock Band to spite a journalist
posted by hellojed at 7:23 PM on November 24, 2014 [7 favorites]

I generally find him a personable, interesting and self-aware interview/article subject.

Yeah, there's a confusing difference between Billy Joel, The Charming and Approachable Interview Subject versus Billy Joel, The Motherfucker Responsible For Those Radio Atrocities.
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:24 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]

hellojed: My favorite factoid about Billy Joel is he put his songs on Rock Band to spite a journalist

And we Rock Band aficionados who are also Joel fans are forever grateful to that schmuck.
posted by ob1quixote at 7:28 PM on November 24, 2014 [3 favorites]

WHEEL OF FORTUNE
SALLY RIDE
HEAVY METAL SUICIDE
posted by roger ackroyd at 7:31 PM on November 24, 2014 [12 favorites]

Joel quietly thanked his mother for forcing him to take piano lessons.

Damn right.
posted by Renoroc at 7:34 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

Have not started reading article, already have "For the Longest Time" stuck in my head.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:36 PM on November 24, 2014 [16 favorites]

I like to think I have generally have really good taste in music. That being said, I will fully admit to having some questionable taste in some music.

My enjoyment of Billy Joel falls under the latter.

But I still enjoy him. He can write an earworm.
posted by el io at 7:45 PM on November 24, 2014 [4 favorites]

Always a good time to post that song where Billy Joel decided to go edgy:

"Close to the Borderline"
posted by escabeche at 7:52 PM on November 24, 2014

"I read the title of this thread as

Billy Joel: life/career over
posted by Existential Dread"

Well I guess you would ;)
posted by maupuia at 7:55 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]

I've struggled against it for decades, but fuck it, I love Billy Joel and his music. This article did just helped me come to grips with this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:57 PM on November 24, 2014 [9 favorites]

The Billy Joel Greatest Hits Volume I & Volume II release from the mid-80s is one of those immense releases that nearly everyone I know owned and listened to. Heck, I can remember at least one party during high school that was based around listening to that double album and singing along with every song. And the mild confusion that happened when the second version of the album was released and so some people had the version with "Honesty" and others had "Don't Ask Me Why"...

I have to say, Greatest Hits Volume III is not nearly as essential as that first release.

I don't own a single actual Billy Joel album. I don't know what his deep cuts and b-sides are like. But he has written some of the best songs of the last quarter of the 20th Century, and he probably has 3-5 songs that are going to live on through the decades. (It's interesting that we don't have a lot of artists covering Billy Joel songs. I think it's about time we see that happen, frankly.)

I write this having not read the linked article. I will do that now. :)
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on November 24, 2014 [5 favorites]

Billy Joel, The Motherfucker Responsible For Those Radio Atrocities.

Hey, he didn't start the fire.
posted by Curious Artificer at 8:08 PM on November 24, 2014 [15 favorites]

when punk came along and bands played their first show THE SAME DAY they bought their piano, I thought Joel was finished, but no, he carries on
posted by thelonius at 8:10 PM on November 24, 2014

I can't stand his music, but found this pretty compelling reading.

Hah. This is a pretty good description of half of all New Yorker articles I've read.

It is a tribute to the New Yorker writing style that if Adam Gopnik writes about ANYTHING I will enjoy it. (I draw the line at fanboy tributes to CEO's, though. Please. Not that AG does those sort of hagiographic profiles.)

Their unabashed admixture of the academic with the vernacular is so winningly fun to read. This style dates back to its origins as a humor magazine in the Twenties. All hail S.J. Perelman, known mostly for his scriptwriting for the Marx Brothers, an association he did not hate, but, he wished he'd been known for the other 95% of his writing a little more.

My high school kids do love the few NY articles I find which resonate with them. (Perelman, though, I can't find a piece they'd appreciate. Although, strangely, I found a fellow Robert Benchley fan ten years ago in my class!)
posted by kozad at 8:14 PM on November 24, 2014 [6 favorites]

*orders bottle of white, bottle of red, and a bottle of rose instead*

(you have to be from the tri-state area (or Philly, Boston or Baltimore or some eastern seaboard city to truly enjoy Billy Joel)
posted by jonmc at 8:17 PM on November 24, 2014 [4 favorites]

The summer after my freshman year of college in a rural midwest, I stayed on campus to take classes. I had to move into the only dorm that was kept open during the break - the international students dorm. So I shared a (co-ed, bless my sheltered heart) floor with mostly Indian, Pakistani, Saudi and Japanese students. Billy Joel could be heard from a good quarter of the rooms in my wing on any given day. There was, one memorable night, an open doors sing-along to a large part of Greatest Hits Volume I.

So, in my experience, not just a East Coast thing.
posted by minervous at 8:27 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

Yah, I like Billy Joel.
posted by parki at 8:29 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

My brother got married in 1978 and the first dance was to Billy Joel's "Just The Way You Are". Turns out every wedding in North America that year had that song as the first dance.
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 8:36 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

You cannot deny that he is a brilliant songwriter.

Well, you might be able to, but you're wrong.

He's a superlative songwriter, an excellent pianist, and had an exquisite sense for pop music. If he didn't, we wouldn't be writing parodies of his music.

He didn't start the fire. He documented it, and asked man, what are you doing here?
posted by eriko at 9:35 PM on November 24, 2014 [11 favorites]

hippybear: It's interesting that we don't have a lot of artists covering Billy Joel songs

I'm a fan, of course, but I've had "The Great Suburban Showdown" in my regular set for 20 years.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:51 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

Always enjoyed the Springsteen in the mid-year and the Billy Joel in the beginnings and ends; seemed to characterize Upstate NY seasons, at least in '01 and '02.
posted by buzzman at 10:33 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

Alec Baldwin has an interview show called Here's the Thing—one of the episodes I really liked (along with the Michael Keaton episode) is his his interview with Billy Joel.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:35 PM on November 24, 2014 [2 favorites]

It's many a weekday morning I've spent belting out billy Joel lyrics while cruising (or creeping) along the mass pike. You know you wanted to join in!
posted by Tandem Affinity at 11:02 PM on November 24, 2014 [1 favorite]

WHEEL OF FORTUNE
SALLY RIDE
HEAVY METAL SUICIDE

I know that "SPACE MONKEY" and "MAFIA" on are two different lines, but every time I hear We Didn't Start The Fire, I imagine a space monkey mafia out there somewhere, bootlegging synth ale and whacking little green men who don't pay their gambling debts.
posted by evil otto at 12:00 AM on November 25, 2014 [9 favorites]

And the award for Best Billy Joel Sampling on a Hip Hop Record goes to...
posted by not_on_display at 12:15 AM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

I grew up on Long Island in the 70s and I hate Billy Joel with the heat of a thousand suns. His music is the soundtrack of idiocy. Dreck.
posted by spitbull at 1:18 AM on November 25, 2014

You've read your last complimentary article this month. To read the full article, subscribe now.

O well.
posted by chavenet at 1:50 AM on November 25, 2014

Why do people (in Glasgow) chant "Billy Joel" at gigs?
posted by stonepharisee at 2:44 AM on November 25, 2014 [6 favorites]

A good read.

Joel's lack of distance from us is both blessing and curse. He has feelings and they're very ordinary. The Mussolini references reminded me of this :

Why - why like Chopin could he not have the romantic scourge?
Consumption — “Look at the sympathy he got, lucky swine! — he could sit
at his piano in a cell of the Carthusian Monastery, composing his
Nocturnes, coughing gently: that was music and disease at its romantic
best. But how, he asked, how could Chopin, in the sight of his beloved
George Sand, sit at his piano, strike the first chords of the E Minor
Nocturne, clutch his backside and say, “Oh my piles” - he wouldn’t have
got very far like that!

(from the 4th volume of Spike Milligan's War Diaries, Mussolini: His Part in My Downfall)
posted by hawthorne at 3:02 AM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

The Billy Joel Greatest Hits Volume I & Volume II release from the mid-80s is one of those immense releases that nearly everyone I know owned and listened to

Oh yes. I have spun the hell out of these two. Even in the 21st century, I have spun the hell out of them. If you could wear out CDs and MP3s, I'd have worn these out long ago.

I'm obligated by geography to enjoy the hell out of Billy Joel, which is fine by me, because he's a phenomenal pop songwriter. And I'm quite pleased that he thinks "Captain Jack" is unredeemable garbage, too. Because it is.

I will never, ever feel shame at belting out "Miami 2017" at karaoke, nor "Only the Good Die Young" around a campfire. Never.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:07 AM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

Worth reading in conjunction with Rolling Stone's list of 40 albums that boomers loved but that millennials don't know. In 1985, the idea that Billy Joel would last and Dire Straits would not would have been greeted with deep scorn among progressive music fans. But that's how it's worked out—20-somethings know all about Billy Joel but have no idea who Dire Straits were.
posted by texorama at 4:40 AM on November 25, 2014 [7 favorites]

I've struggled against it for decades, but fuck it, I love Billy Joel and his music.

I have the same relationship with Supertramp, and I've been a dyed-in-the-wool record collector snob for decades. Pretty much every music geek I know has a similar story, too.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:35 AM on November 25, 2014

Bruce Springsteen : New Jersey :: Billy Joel : Long Island
posted by slogger at 6:46 AM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

There are Billy Joel songs I like and there are more Billy Joel songs I hate. One thing I remember about him from long ago is he did some interview where he made fun of himself. He said something about the Columbia record manager who gave him his first contract promoted him as "Bob Dylan with a piano" and he went with along with it, although he thought Bob Dylan was kind of a goofball and there was a joke there on Columbia who thought that was like the greatest compliment. It was important that he wrote his own songs for some reason.
posted by bukvich at 6:47 AM on November 25, 2014

uncleozzy: And I'm quite pleased that he thinks "Captain Jack" is unredeemable garbage, too. Because it is.

Great singalong song and mentions masturbation. You can't go wrong.
posted by dr_dank at 6:54 AM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

His song, "The Downeaster Alexa," is one of those songs I have always secretly quite liked, and it is made even more poignant by the fact one of my friends always sung that at karaoke (he killed it!). When Bobby died, none of us have ever wanted to hear it again because of the high probability of weeping.
posted by Kitteh at 7:03 AM on November 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

spitbull: "I grew up on Long Island in the 70s and I hate Billy Joel with the heat of a thousand suns. His music is the soundtrack of idiocy. Dreck."

Thanks. I was worried this wouldn't be exactly like every previous Billy Joel thread.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:18 AM on November 25, 2014 [18 favorites]

Growing up in Levittown in the 1970's and 80's meant Twin Peaks level strangeness and a Billy Joel soundtrack whether you liked it or not.

Years later musician friends of mine started a Billy Joel tribute band set to the style of Metallica ( For Whom the Bell Joels ) and were blown away by the sheer quality and strength of the song-writing. Judging from this article, apparently the same attributes can be applied to the man himself.
posted by Hickeystudio at 7:30 AM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

Bruce Springsteen : New Jersey :: Billy Joel : Long Island

Billy Joel : East Coast :: The Eagles : West Coast
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 7:36 AM on November 25, 2014 [5 favorites]

A piano bar juat opened in my neighborhood. We went there the other day just to check it out. It was very crowded with douchebags and bagettes. The piano player had opened the place, and he was about to head back to Chicago after three weeks in Memphis. After "Jack and Diane" (a guitar song), I tipped him generously and requested "Miami 2017". He didn't know the song, but he said "Billy Joel, right?"
"Yeah," I said. "How about 'Pressure'?"
He knew that one, and played it well, and appeared to be having fun for the first time. Afterwards, he thanked me, "No one has ever requested either one of those before."
"Billy's got a deep catalog." I said.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:02 AM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

I can't stand his music

Motherfucker Responsible For Those Radio Atrocities.

I will fully admit to having some questionable taste in some music. My enjoyment of Billy Joel falls under the latter.

I love Billy Joel's music. There are no apologies, no disclaimers, none of that. Yes, we know "We Didn't Start the Fire". Yes, yes, yes. Doesn't negate his entire catalog from 1974-1981. Not one bit. Anymore than All That You Can't Leave Behind undoes Under a Blood Red Sky, War, Boy, or The Joshua Tree.

Billy Joel is better than most people think he is.
posted by grubi at 8:31 AM on November 25, 2014 [10 favorites]

But that's how it's worked out—20-somethings know all about Billy Joel but have no idea who Dire Straits were.

There's really no need to know who Dire Straits were beyond their first album and a few scattered cuts on other albums (though I carried around their albums like I was on to something important when I was in college). Brothers in Arms was a huge phenomenon, but God only knows why. That pompous, portentous music and the fake rock-stud growly voice of Mark Knopfler, ugh. The aural equivalent of formica. Although I still have a very soft spot in my heart for the first minute or so of "Money for Nothing" before the fake-ballsy guitars kick in.

Billy Joel, on the other hand -- his stuff will endure. Not all of it is great, some of it is schlocky and sappy and sentimental and godawful bad, but it will endure -- and that's why it'll endure. It's so bad, it's good. You can't tell me with a straight face that anything Billy Joel wrote is worse than the wretched "Don't Stop Believin'," which I am cursed to hear at least once a week when I commute past the bars and tourist dives in downtown Nashville. "Movin' Out," "Big Shot," "Just the Way You Are," "Don't Ask Me Why," "You May Be Right," "It's Still Rock'n'Roll to Me," even "Piano Man" -- all classics compared to that execrable zombie tune.

And damn if Songs in the Attic isn't just a good album but a freaking great album. It is sorely underrated.
posted by blucevalo at 8:52 AM on November 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

Billy Joel is better than most people think he is.

Hah! Sounds just like the famous Mark Twain quote, "Wagner's music is better than it sounds." (Mark Twain did say that, but at the time he gave credit to fellow humorist Edgar Wilson Nye for having come up with that great line.)
posted by kozad at 9:03 AM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

In 1985, my best friend, my then-boyfriend (now husband) and I moved into a house together. We surveyed our three separate record collections (all on vinyl, pre-CD) and discovered that with hundreds and hundreds of albums and divergent tastes in music, there was only one record that all three of us owned - The Stranger. I still know every word of that album.

I also studied classical piano for like 12 years so I always knew the dude had skills. I mean, the Prelude to Angry Young Man - that lick is HARD! Respect!

So yeah, I like him, I like his music, and I'm not apologizing for that. Good article!
posted by rekrap at 9:11 AM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

Popular artist who wrote many catchy, original tunes with memorable lyrics that resonate with millions of people is complete hack who is dragging down All That Is Good.

More on Hater News at 11.
posted by IAmBroom at 10:07 AM on November 25, 2014 [9 favorites]

An interesting aspect of the article is where he talks about people in the audience who are half as old as the songs. I wonder if Billy Joel's music carries the same cultural baggage for them as it does for previous generations.

I mean, if you wanted to be hip in the 70s and 80s, you had to hate Billy Joel, because he was the very antithesis of cool; he was everything punk and new wave were supposed to sweep away. If you came of age in the 90s, you hated him for essentially the same reason; he was everything grunge and alt-rock were supposed to sweep away. He wasn't quite the Spice Girls, but next to NIN and Nirvana, he was the corniest, most corporate thing on the planet; the stuff your aunt listened to in her car.

Realizing There's Nothing Essentially Wrong With Billy Joel seems to be kind of a thing for people my age or older. Looking back, it's hard to put a finger on exactly what about his music was so offensive to us. Something about how it had all the trappings of rock n' roll, but wasn't rebellious in any recognizable way. Sort of like how your dad still thinks of wearing jeans as "edgy" because, in his day, boys had to wear slacks to school. Meanwhile, you're all like, "Dad, it's just a pair of jeans. Everybody wears jeans".

Divorced from the adolescent (and let's face it, young adult) desire to prove my cultural worth, I can see Billy Joel's music for what it is : finely-crafted pop music. No need to ask anything more of it. I don't find myself queueing it up on Spotify, but I no longer feel guilty about enjoying it. So I wonder how people in their teens and early 20s see Joel's music. After all, to them it's just Oldies. They don't care about rock critics from the 70s, 80s, and 90s. And I have a feeling they don't give a shit what my aunt used to listen to in her car.
posted by evil otto at 10:26 AM on November 25, 2014 [10 favorites]

Count me in as another lifelong Billy Joel fan. What I'm surprised no one has mentioned is the rare fact that hearing his songs performed live is SO much better than what he does in the studio (at least, when he was younger).

For example, compare the Album version to the Live version of "Worse Comes to Worst."
posted by Marco Polo's Lost Codpiece at 11:08 AM on November 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

I am a former alterna-rocker or whatever they all that now, and I like Billy Joel, Dire Straits AND the Eagles*. I just didn't talk about it for a while because it wasn't socially acceptable. Whew that feels good to get off my chest!

R.e. Billy Joel it may help that I'm old enough to still think of "We Didn't Start The Fire" as that new stuff of his I don't like. The Stranger is a great album though!

* sorry Dude
posted by freecellwizard at 11:33 AM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

How could anyone listen to "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant" and hate it? They'd have to have some sort of darkness in their heart.
posted by grubi at 11:52 AM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

I guess this is a safe place to share this. When I was a very, very small octorok, my favorite musicians were Billy Joel and Barry Manilow. I still listen to Billy Joel records. Billy Joel is fucking awesome.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:22 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

The greatest moment in my young life was when my parents got me the piano sheet music to Greatest Hits Vol. 1 & 2, and I realized for the first time that learning and playing music could be fun.

I won a talent show playing and singing "New York State of Mind" at age 12. The piano intro wasn't in the sheet music, so I painstakingly figured it out by ear. When I was in a band in college, one of our most popular covers was "Angry Young Man". I was living in NYC during 9/11, and I cried when Billy Joel played "Miami 2017" at the benefit concert.

Billy Joel is in no small part responsible for my own journey as a musician and songwriter, and he will always be fucking awesome.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:34 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

IAmBroom : More on Hater News at 11.

C'mon, you know I don't even own a television.
posted by dr_dank at 12:48 PM on November 25, 2014 [5 favorites]

Billy Joel is better than most people think he is.

That's not too difficult if that benchmark is Ron Rosenbaum's judgement: "He was terrible, he is terrible, he always will be terrible. Anodyne, sappy, superficial, derivative, fraudulently rebellious. Joel's famous song 'It's Still Rock and Roll to Me'? Please. It never was rock 'n' roll. Billy Joel's music elevates self-aggrandizing self-pity and contempt for others into its own new and awful genre: 'Mock-Rock.'"

Much as I'd like to, I cannot outdo that piece's contempt for the sheer phoniness of Billy Joel's oeuvre and his songwriter-piano man persona. Sure, Rosenbaum, as a literary critic/cultural commentator, has a special detestation of his shallow verses of self-absorbed Baby Boomer ennui and his self-congratulatory sham "Angry Young Man" stance, and he probably doesn't give him sufficient credit for his ability to pen a catchy pop tune or tickle the ivories (which are considerable). But how could anyone take "Piano Man" remotely seriously after noticing its verse structure is a limerick's? The temptation to sing it substituting "There was an Old Man of Nantucket" will one day be too much for him, I predict.

Joel's decision to go by "Billy" should be enough of a warning sign. One would swear he must have ripped off Slaughterhouse-Five (the same way his meretricious "This Night" ripped off Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata, for example):

"He told Billy to encourage people to call him Billy-because it would stick in their memories. It would also make him seem slightly magical, since there weren't any other grown Billys around. It also compelled people to think of him as a friend right away."

Such a phony.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:08 PM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

It's just another way of saying STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.

I keep my mouth shut when people wax poetic about what a freaking geeeeeenius Bob Dylan was/is. It's just common courtesy. It's one thing to declare that it is some kind of crime for a song's rhythm to match that of a limerick, but then to criticize the guy for his first name? If you've seriously never heard of a grown-up dude going by a diminutive, you've never been to Long Island. More Joeys and Bobbys than you can shake a stick at.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 1:18 PM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

Bruce Springsteen on some of Billy Joel's songs which Springsteen had just played on stage: "They’re built like the Rock of Gibraltar. Until you play them, you don’t realize how well they play."

I don't know who Rosenbaum is, but I have confidence in Springsteen's judgment on songcraft.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 1:26 PM on November 25, 2014 [5 favorites]

"He told Billy to encourage people to call him Billy-because it would stick in their memories. It would also make him seem slightly magical, since there weren't any other grown Billys around. It also compelled people to think of him as a friend right away."

That and the fact that he was called Billy growing up. Jesus, some people.
posted by grubi at 1:55 PM on November 25, 2014 [3 favorites]

It's just another way of saying STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.

YES. I may have to dig up my rant against the Kevin Smith haters, which is along these very lines.

If you've seriously never heard of a grown-up dude going by a diminutive, you've never been to Long Island. More Joeys and Bobbys than you can shake a stick at.

My son, Mikey, is 18 years old. Years ago we asked him if he wanted to be Mike from here on out. He chose to stick with Mikey.
posted by grubi at 1:57 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

list of 40 albums that boomers loved but that millennials don't know

young people already did not care about many of those boomer albums by the 1980s. I mean, "A Question Of Balance" was probably my favorite record for half of 1980, and I didn't find a whole lot of fellow travelers there, in the 8th grade.
posted by thelonius at 2:39 PM on November 25, 2014

Doktor Zed: the same way his meretricious "This Night" ripped off Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata, for example)

Dozens of composers and artists from Alicia Keys to the Wu-Tang Clan have quoted or sampled Beethoven in their music. Chopin, even. Hell, Joel wasn't even the only one to quote the Pathetique in the '80s. At least Joel credited Beethoven as a writer on the song. All of which is to say: C'mon man.
posted by ob1quixote at 2:46 PM on November 25, 2014 [2 favorites]

"I love Gordon Lightfoot," he said.

Terrific songwriter and so under-appreciated.
posted by spock at 3:59 PM on November 25, 2014 [4 favorites]

From the article: As for derivative, Joel won’t deny it; he loved the Beatles, Ray Charles, Otis Redding, and Smokey Robinson, so why not try to sound like them? At his Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, in 1999, he was introduced by Ray Charles. Joel said, “I know I’ve been referred to as derivative. Well, I’m damn guilty. I’m derivative as hell.” He said that if the Hall of Fame disqualified candidates on the basis of being derivative, “there wouldn’t be any white people here.”
posted by misozaki at 4:18 PM on November 25, 2014 [8 favorites]

I guess this is a safe place to share this. When I was a very, very small octorok, my favorite musicians were Billy Joel and Barry Manilow. I still listen to Billy Joel records. Billy Joel is fucking awesome.

Barry Manilow is also fucking awesome, and is still worth listening to today. His creepy plastic-surgery-ed modern incarnation doesn't interest me very much, but he's one HELL of a showman and what would be regarded as his classic period is just chock full of really amazing songs that are expertly crafted and brilliantly performed. He started to lose the thread a bit in the 80s (although 2am Paradise Cafe remains brilliant from end to end), and I haven't found any of his new recorded material interesting for a long time now. But all the stuff he recorded that made him famous to start with? It's still absolutely great.
posted by hippybear at 6:06 PM on November 25, 2014 [7 favorites]

The 1977 LIU bootleg is hands-down the best I've ever heard. IIRC, Just the Way You Are premiered at this show.
posted by dr_dank at 6:32 PM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

That and the fact that he was called Billy growing up.

And the fact that the other options suck: Bill Joel? Will Joel? Willy Joel? William Joel? Toss in the middle name of Martin, and you have a few more options, but they're still not great.

Anyway, here are those 33 hits, because I wanted to hear them myself, after happening to listen to a few of them before seeing this post.

1. Piano Man (1973) #25 - original clip, 1985 update video/version [VEVO]
2. The Entertainer (1975) #34 - live in Dec. 1976
3. Just the Way You Are (1977) #3 - live video [VEVO]
4. Movin' Out (Anthony's Song) (1977) #17 - low fidelity video from The Old Grey Whistle Test, 1978
5. Only the Good Die Young (1977) #24 - live at Staten Island, year unknown
6. She's Always a Woman (1977) #17 - live in Bremen, Germany - March 1978
7. My Life (1978) #3 - original video [VEVO]
8. Big Shot (1979) #14 - original video [VEVO]
9. Honesty (1979) #24 - original video [VEVO]
10. You May Be Right (1980) #7 - original video [VEVO]
11. It's Still Rock and Roll to Me (1980) #1 - original video [VEVO]
12. Don't Ask Me Why (1980) #19 - Live at Wembley 1984
13. Sometimes a Fantasy (1980) #36 - original video [VEVO]
14. Say Goodbye to Hollywood [live] (1981, original version released in 1976) #17 - official live version [VEVO]
15. She's Got a Way [live] (1982 single, originally released in 1971) #23 - live official (?) version
16. Pressure (1982) #20 - official video [VEVO]
17. Allentown (1983) #17 - official video [VEVO]
18. Tell Her About It (1983) #1 - official video [VEVO]
19. Uptown Girl (1983) #3 - official video [VEVO]
20. An Innocent Man (1983) #10 - Live at Wembley 1984
21. The Longest Time (1984) #14 - official video [VEVO]
22. Leave a Tender Moment Alone (1984) #27 - live, sometime in the 80s?
23. Keeping the Faith (1984) #18 - official video [VEVO]
24. You're Only Human (Second Wind) (1985) #9 - official video [VEVO]
25. The Night Is Still Young (1985) #34 - official video [VEVO]
26. Modern Woman (1986) #10 - played from a vinyl single
27. A Matter of Trust (1986) #10 - official video [VEVO]
28. This Is the Time (1986) #18 - live, 10-13-86
29. We Didn't Start the Fire (1989) #1 - official video [VEVO]
30. I Go to Extremes (1989) #6 - official video [VEVO]
31. And So It Goes (1990) #37 - official video [VEVO]
32. The River of Dreams (1993) #3 - official video [VEVO]
33. All About Soul (1993) #29 - official video [VEVO]

And there you have it, his 33 top 40 hits.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:56 PM on November 25, 2014 [16 favorites]

Thanks filthy light thief.

But I'm curious why you've noted VEVO where applicable? Is that something people like to know?
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 9:30 PM on November 25, 2014

That was a pre-emptive "this may not work in all countries" type warning, sorry if I ws cryptic.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:48 PM on November 25, 2014 [1 favorite]

I've liked a solid percentage of his music since I was in high school, and still do. That list filthy light thief posted is something I am grateful for some of the reminders. I'll be spending some pleasant time with quite a few of those tomorrow. Thank you.
posted by scottymac at 1:24 AM on November 26, 2014

> "But how could anyone take 'Piano Man' remotely seriously after noticing its verse structure is a limerick's? The temptation to sing it substituting 'There was an Old Man of Nantucket' will one day be too much for him, I predict."

You can do the same thing with the verse structure of "Time in a Bottle", "Good Ship Venus", most of "It's Tricky", and the drinking song from Othello. So I guess no one can take Jim Croce, The Sex Pistols, Run DMC, or Shakespeare seriously either.

Or possibly this is simply the most ridiculous criticism I've ever seen.
posted by kyrademon at 3:25 AM on November 26, 2014 [4 favorites]

I'm not the biggest billy Joel fan, but this was a fun read.
posted by freakazoid at 4:35 AM on November 26, 2014

I tossed Greatest Hits Vol I into my CD player while I drove this morning. Had to skip "Captain Jack," but otherwise, a really excellent decision.

Also reminded me that I love the sound of records from this era. Just before the cruddy early digital stuff started to take over studios. Music sounded expensive, largely because it was.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:57 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

When Best Friend and I are driving around, and one of us is in a mood that isn't quite right, it's the job of the other one to put the Best of Billy Joel in the tape deck AND fast forward to the best of best of songs.

It has a 100% success rate at fixing not right moods.
posted by MsDaniB at 6:01 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

My wife had no real fandom for Billy Joel, only knew one or two of his songs well enough to sing along, before we got together.

She now sings along with "Billy the Kid" when it's playing. There's others she's learned but a deep cut? I mean, come on.
posted by grubi at 7:21 AM on November 26, 2014

That and the fact that he was called Billy growing up.

And the fact that the other options suck: Bill Joel? Will Joel? Willy Joel? William Joel? Toss in the middle name of Martin, and you have a few more options, but they're still not great.

He even makes fun of that in the "Tell Her About It" video with a fake Ed McMahon introducing him (after "Topo Gigio") as "BJ and The Affordables" and then after the song, as "Mr. William ... Joel".
posted by chavenet at 7:38 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

It’s been a good year for Billy Joel: sold out concerts at MSG (and other venues) throughout 2014. His band was inducted into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame in October. He was awarded the Gershwin Prize last week at a performance that will be broadcast on PBS on January 2. A new biography by Fred Schruers was released at the end of October. This long-overdue recognition (of him, his music, his band) is gratifying for longtime fans like myself; in interviews, he seems surprised and pleased by it.
posted by apartment dweller at 7:49 AM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

Dude, that's Ed Sullivan, not Ed McMahon.

(Did you know that Joan Rivers used to write for Topo Gigio? #themoreyouknow)
posted by hippybear at 7:53 AM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

Three "don't miss" deep cuts (YouTube links):
Tomorrow is Today, live version from the Philadelphia 1972 Sigma Sound Studios/WMMR radio concert
Half a Mile Away, studio version from the 52nd Street album, and the happiest song in his entire catalog [VEVO]
Until the Night, live version from the 1982 Live from Long Island concert, and the video is terrific as well [VEVO]
posted by apartment dweller at 8:45 AM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

You can do the same thing with the verse structure of "Time in a Bottle", "Good Ship Venus", most of "It's Tricky", and the drinking song from Othello.

Please note that the latter three examples are quite unserious, while the first one is just as cheesy and maudlin as anything by Mr. Joel. This is a formalist issue, inherent in the AABBA rhyme scheme and long-x2/short-x2/long–meter length, which is perfect for a setup-buildup-punchline/twist progression. This works best for a comic or light style , of course, but it can also be employed to telegraph a hammered-home point. Incidentally, Joel uses a similar lyrical structure for his smugly self-pitying ballad of his own success, "The Entertainer".

In general, the problem is not with Joel's musicianship or compositional talent—which are certainly high enough to set him above his contemporary cheesemeisters like Harry Chapin, Don Henley, and Huey Lewis—it's the uniformly awful song lyrics to which he puts them. While his biggest fans and fellow musicians are apparently willing to accept his karaoke-friendly earworms, those of us who can't shut out what he's actually singing loathe his bathetic Baby Boomer-soundtrack precisely because of how they underscore the gap between his talent as a tunesmith and his grandiose uncoolness that comes out whenever he opens his mouth. The man not-so-secretly fancies himself to be pop music's Chopin, but when he tries to put his mediocre soul into words, his Tin Pan Alley instincts kick in. In his ode to false modesty "Piano Man", they turn subconsciously to limericks in what would have to be a joke on his listeners if he had a sense of humor about himself.

It's not coincidence that "Weird Al" Yankovic chose "Piano Man" as one of the two songs of Mr. Joel to parody. The other one is "It's Still Billy Joel To Me". Joel evidently can get under the skin of even a soft-touch satirist (and genuinely nice guy) like Weird Al...

If you've seriously never heard of a grown-up dude going by a diminutive, you've never been to Long Island. More Joeys and Bobbys than you can shake a stick at.

And if you're packaging your pabulum-pushing pop-star shtick as still just a reg'lar Joe(l) from New York's outer boroughs—but not a comparatively well-off suburb like Mr. Joel's native Hicksville—then that's what you keep calling yourself instead of simply taking a stage name or coming off as the old-sounding "William".

More on Hater News at 11.

THIS JUST IN: YOUR FAVORITE SACCHARINE SINGER-SONGWRITER SUCKS

Hater News, brought to you by Haterade™—the "He's the Worst" Quencher
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:34 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

His lyrics aren't perfect? THAT FUCKER.
posted by grubi at 9:38 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

Dude, that's Ed Sullivan, not Ed McMahon.

D'oh.
posted by chavenet at 9:39 AM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

His lyrics aren't perfect?

No, they're perfectly awful!
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:43 AM on November 26, 2014

a comparatively well-off suburb like Mr. Joel's native Hicksville

In comparison to "the inner city," maybe, but not to the actual outer boroughs. Most of the postwar towns around Hicksville grew up around blue-collar jobs at Grumman. So, detached houses with a little yard, but not exactly the Gold Coast. I'm not sure that disqualifies him from branding himself as a blue-collar schlub.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:46 AM on November 26, 2014

it's the uniformly awful song lyrics

That's not even remotely true. No, not all of the lyrics are great (let's pick apart the Beatles and Dylan, too; there's enough of missteps in their catalogs to choke a fucking horse), but he wrote the lyrics to the best of his ability and to express what he was feeling.

But fuck him sideways, right?

Take a closer look at Springsteen's lyrics and tell me how they're so superior in comparison to Billy Joel's. I dare you.

his smugly self-pitying ballad of his own success,

The fact that you think that song is him being smug says more about you than him. Must be nice to be neck-deep in detached cynicism. That way anything sincere doesn't touch you. Especially if it's awkward — which is the peril of sincerity.

The man not-so-secretly fancies himself to be pop music's Chopin

Not sure where you're getting that from. This is a man who not-so-secretly struggles with self-loathing and depression.

that's what you keep calling yourself instead of simply taking a stage name or coming off as the old-sounding "William"

That's what you keep calling yourself if that's what you've always been called. For christ's sakes, man, you're just nitpicking. This isn't criticism; it's smug bullying.
posted by grubi at 9:47 AM on November 26, 2014 [6 favorites]

No, they're perfectly awful!

Compared to whose lyrics? Here's some lyrics written by a guy the same age as Billy Joel and written around the same time as "The Entertainer":

Just wrap your legs 'round these velvet rims
and strap your hands 'cross my engines

Jesus wept. This is ridiculous imagery. As in literally worthy of ridicule. But we get what he's talking about. It isn't he wants to fuck a motorcycle — just like Joel isn't saying he *really* is "the idol of his age" in "The Entertainer".

Each songwriter wrote in the style they were comfortable writing in, translating their experiences, telling their stories (whether true or made up), and you'd prefer to shit on a man whose style doesn't match your taste.

And then pretend that your taste is somehow an objective standard Mr Joel has failed to live up to. That's arrogant as fuck.
posted by grubi at 9:53 AM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

Billy Joel was one of my first concerts, at the Arena in St. Louis (previous home of the Blues, now demolished), and it was one the loudest things my sheltered little ears had ever encountered. Later in life I got into punk rock and became a hater. Now that I am in my thirties, I've come around to some (not all) of his catalog. I got free tickets to his recent show at Wrigley Field and I have to say it was great. Also, I play in a heavily Thin Lizzy-influenced band and we recently covered "Pressure" - the lead line actually sounds pretty killer on dual harmonized guitars.
posted by evisceratordeath at 11:00 AM on November 26, 2014

And the award for Best Billy Joel Sampling on a Hip Hop Record goes to...

That's not even the best 'You Oughta Know' sample. Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset Dipset! My favorite Billy Joel sample, though, is G. Rap and Polo's flip of 'Stiletto.'
posted by box at 12:30 PM on November 26, 2014 [2 favorites]

That's a little like suggesting we pick apart Joyce and Woolf when someone says they think Fifty Shades of Grey is poorly written. I mean really.

If you're saying Billy Joel's lyrics are as bad as Fifty Shades of Gray's prose, then I will in turn say to YOU "I mean really". Because, really.

At some point it's arguing about taste. And that's never fruitful.
posted by grubi at 12:50 PM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

The World Famous, I hear you.

I think part of it is how one was exposed to Joel's music. If it was an annoying AM radio staple from your youth, then, yeah, you're not likely to be a fan. If it's part of the main music you grew up listening to (like myself), then you''re probably more likely to have an affection for it. But in neither case is anyone coming into it objectively, so in neither case can anyone claim that his lyrics are objectively good/bad/whatever. I do think that if someone 1) listens to his music without a previous bias, 2) understands the context of an East Coast singer-songwriter tradition, and 3) appreciates the more sincere portions of what we call cheesy¹ really means "not ironic", then they would judge it more fairly. We can dismiss doo-wop as easily: it's goofy, often comical, and old-fashioned in its corniness. But it's still a legitimate form of music, and to properly appreciate² it you need to understand the context from which it sprang.

I'll say this: teaching myself to appreciate other artists/songs/genres with those same rules has led me to actually learn to like certain things I used to profess a hatred for (the Eagles, the Bee-Gees, country music). I try to give art its fair due, even if I don't end up liking it in the end.




1. I maintain what we judge now as corny/cheesy is based on a distaste for emphatic sincerity in entertainment — I don't mean sincerity like "more objectively true/honest", but as in "these sentiments are a sincere expression of the person; they do not say these things with detached irony"", e.g. 70s sitcoms, variety shows, most singer-songwriter music, etc. TL;DR Sincerity as the opposite of irony or cynicism.

2. When I say appreciate, I don't mean to use it in the common vernacular sense of "like, enjoy"; I use it as in music appreciation.
posted by grubi at 1:12 PM on November 26, 2014 [6 favorites]

My appreciation for Billy Joel's music, including my enjoyment of it as a listener, increased exponentially after listening to his interview on Here's The Thing.

Yeah, that was a good one. If you haven't already, listen to the interview from a few years ago he did with Howard Stern. I was surprised by some of the stuff I heard. That was the first time I understood how much self-hate can permeate throughout a man's life. He's not grumpy or mopey, but the darkness... it's there, man.
posted by grubi at 2:34 PM on November 26, 2014 [1 favorite]

It's not as bad as you think (or as I thought). Stern's schtick actually is kept it check.
posted by grubi at 2:41 PM on November 26, 2014

Alas, I can appreciate and put up with Billy Joel, but Howard Stern is too much to ask.

Oddly enough, Howard Stern can be a remarkably effective interviewer. Case in point : his interview with Roger Waters, which is not only the best-ever Roger Waters interview, but one of the best interviews I've ever heard.

Of course, Waters and Joel are personal friends of Stern, which may have something to do with it.
posted by evil otto at 10:20 PM on November 26, 2014 [3 favorites]

Heck, I can remember at least one party during high school that was based around listening to that double album and singing along with every song.

I remember many 'punker' parties where whomever was running the turntable interjected a Billy Joel song between the standard fare of loud and furious. Everyone sang along because Billy Joel is a ton of fun to sing along with - especially at top volume when your head is filled with cheap alcohol. The thing is, no matter how horrid your singing voice, no matter how out of tune or meter, you can sing along and it always sounds right and everyone else in the room is surfing that wave of fun right alongside you.
posted by Pudhoho at 5:57 PM on November 28, 2014

Howard Stern can be a remarkably effective interviewer. Case in point : his interview with Roger Waters, which is not only the best-ever Roger Waters interview, but one of the best interviews I've ever heard.

Stern: "Were [Pink Floyd] wrong to play those songs without you?"

Waters [after a pause]: "No, I don't think so. I think I was wrong to think they were wrong."

W-o-w! I never thought I'd hear Roger say that.
posted by paleyellowwithorange at 4:44 AM on December 1, 2014 [2 favorites]