Read before flagging; it's not a live Kickstarter
January 6, 2015 6:22 PM Subscribe
Author Stacey Jay (one of three pen names) got dropped by her publisher before her recent fantasy novel Princess of Thorns came out. Believing there was enough of an audience for the sequel to meet her modest needs, she started a Kickstarter for it this past Sunday. The expressed goal was to raise enough money for her to (a) live for three months while writing the thing, and (b) cover the expenses of self-publishing. Which was surely reasonable enough, and in line with many other Kickstarters for creative endeavors, not to mention Patreon and such.
But according to her own account, posted today, she soon became aware that the writer/blogger/reader community was up in arms at her temerity in trying to raise money to allow her to live while writing the book. So she cancelled the Kickstarter, abandoned all plans for a sequel, and also deleted her Twitter account.
(I've been trying to find the referenced uproar, but have thus far succeeded in finding only this one thread and three or so additional subtweets.)
But according to her own account, posted today, she soon became aware that the writer/blogger/reader community was up in arms at her temerity in trying to raise money to allow her to live while writing the book. So she cancelled the Kickstarter, abandoned all plans for a sequel, and also deleted her Twitter account.
(I've been trying to find the referenced uproar, but have thus far succeeded in finding only this one thread and three or so additional subtweets.)
This post was deleted for the following reason: This looks like internet outrage without much in the way of sourcing; I feel bad for the woman but there isn't that much to say here except to cast a vote on her behavior, and that doesn't usually make for good conversation. -- restless_nomad
Man, internet people and their infinite capacity for being both cheap and shitty.
posted by Artw at 6:26 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:26 PM on January 6, 2015 [4 favorites]
How would this be at all unlike the entirely usual system of advances paid by publishing companies?
posted by solitary dancer at 6:34 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by solitary dancer at 6:34 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
How dare this woman ask her fans to support her extravagant $2000-per-month-lifestyle.
posted by rustcrumb at 6:35 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rustcrumb at 6:35 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
What a buncha butts. Don't like it? Don't send any money. That's how you vote with your wallet. But shitters gotta shit on people.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:39 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 6:39 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Why didn't she just use Patreon? It may not have done everything she was looking for but man it's getting to be very acceptable in the (comics) circles I move in.
Also this pretty much is the opposite result of Amanda Palmer's 'Just ask and see' rhetoric.
posted by taterpie at 6:40 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also this pretty much is the opposite result of Amanda Palmer's 'Just ask and see' rhetoric.
posted by taterpie at 6:40 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
KS for publishing fees/cover/editing, I understand... to pay her salary(essentially)? Mmm no.
This is curious to me. The assertion that everybody elses time has value and should be paid for, yet the author's time should not be paid for is very strange.
Kickstarter isn't a charity, and even if it was - pay the price for the thing you get, or don't. I don't go into the kitchen of restaurants to tell the chef he's overpaid.
A person who produces work should be paid for that work, if they want to be.
Also, I think Ms. Jay was a little to quick to give the haters what they wanted. Haters gonna hate, girl.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:41 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is curious to me. The assertion that everybody elses time has value and should be paid for, yet the author's time should not be paid for is very strange.
Kickstarter isn't a charity, and even if it was - pay the price for the thing you get, or don't. I don't go into the kitchen of restaurants to tell the chef he's overpaid.
A person who produces work should be paid for that work, if they want to be.
Also, I think Ms. Jay was a little to quick to give the haters what they wanted. Haters gonna hate, girl.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:41 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
whoosh, sounds like she caught herself between two groups of people by starting then discontinuing the KS.
I don't see why people would be upset about her trying to fiance the project/living expense for a short period of time. As long as she's upfront about the risks, and what she was doing it really is up to the backers to decide whether or not to take the risk, everyone else really should have shut the fuck up and mumbled up their sleeves.
posted by edgeways at 6:42 PM on January 6, 2015
I don't see why people would be upset about her trying to fiance the project/living expense for a short period of time. As long as she's upfront about the risks, and what she was doing it really is up to the backers to decide whether or not to take the risk, everyone else really should have shut the fuck up and mumbled up their sleeves.
posted by edgeways at 6:42 PM on January 6, 2015
Kickstarting your potato salad: LOL start-up economy performance art get a load of kids these days great meme kid!
Kickstarting the sequel to your novel: GET OFF THE INTERNET YOU SHAMELESS HARRIDAN.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:43 PM on January 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
Kickstarting the sequel to your novel: GET OFF THE INTERNET YOU SHAMELESS HARRIDAN.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:43 PM on January 6, 2015 [10 favorites]
In case that comment wasn't clear, I find this depressing and shitty and I dislike it.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:45 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Snarl Furillo at 6:45 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
Why didn't she just use Patreon?
I think Kickstarter was the better fit here. KS is for specific, limited projects with defined goals; Patreon is for ongoing support of more open-ended ongoing endeavors. In this instance, she was looking to write a novel.
Also, I think Ms. Jay was a little to quick to give the haters what they wanted.
Yeah. Especially since I can't find any evidence that there was anything resembling widespread hating. It looks like an overreaction to a few people voicing (admittedly ridiculous) criticism of the model, mostly without even saying who or what was at issue.
posted by Shmuel510 at 6:49 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think Kickstarter was the better fit here. KS is for specific, limited projects with defined goals; Patreon is for ongoing support of more open-ended ongoing endeavors. In this instance, she was looking to write a novel.
Also, I think Ms. Jay was a little to quick to give the haters what they wanted.
Yeah. Especially since I can't find any evidence that there was anything resembling widespread hating. It looks like an overreaction to a few people voicing (admittedly ridiculous) criticism of the model, mostly without even saying who or what was at issue.
posted by Shmuel510 at 6:49 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ugh. The SF/F community was fatally addicted to drama BEFORE the internet came along. Nowadays I stay far, far away and read books. I can't imagine how published authors deal with twitter.
posted by selfnoise at 6:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by selfnoise at 6:55 PM on January 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I know a lot of writers who are very introspective and have a hard time putting themselves out in public. She thought she'd get support, and maybe didn't realize that there's always criticism with these things too.
I'm also sorry she gave in to the haters, but it's up to her to decide how much she wants to get out on that ledge.
But really, if you don't like the project walk on by and don't contribute! I've been a contributor for several KS projects and never felt I had to do so.
posted by jnfr at 7:05 PM on January 6, 2015
I'm also sorry she gave in to the haters, but it's up to her to decide how much she wants to get out on that ledge.
But really, if you don't like the project walk on by and don't contribute! I've been a contributor for several KS projects and never felt I had to do so.
posted by jnfr at 7:05 PM on January 6, 2015
We don't have a lot of examples to see what she was dealing with... but I can tell ya that it's a truly alarming feeling to see a large group of people online all closing ranks against you, agreeing that you are bad/lame/etc. If it hasn't happened to you before, it can make you want to lash out, or run away, or do almost anything to make the attacks stop. Even if you know it's bullshit, even if you KNOW you didn't do anything wrong, having a whole bunch of anonymous strangers enjoy a good long LOL at your expense can be torture.
I heard someplace that shame is one of the strongest emotions we can feel, that being shunned or ridiculed is intensely stressful and makes our vital signs spike like crazy. And if you trace it back to our primitive roots, it makes sense. If your tribe was shunning you, if they cast you out, you could literally die. Being unpopular could mean you were left behind, that you were basically thrown to the wolves.
I think she probably overreacted, but I can see why she did it. That moment when you find yourself facing dozens or hundreds or thousands of anonymous, hateful jerks is like that moment in Labyrinth when Jennifer Connelly starts to do the incantation about David Bowie taking her baby brother away and there's a jump cut to a bunch of horrible little goblins in a big pile, all waking up at once with their wild, staring little puppet eyes, excited and hissing and smelling blood.
God help her, she woke the goblin pile.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:13 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
I heard someplace that shame is one of the strongest emotions we can feel, that being shunned or ridiculed is intensely stressful and makes our vital signs spike like crazy. And if you trace it back to our primitive roots, it makes sense. If your tribe was shunning you, if they cast you out, you could literally die. Being unpopular could mean you were left behind, that you were basically thrown to the wolves.
I think she probably overreacted, but I can see why she did it. That moment when you find yourself facing dozens or hundreds or thousands of anonymous, hateful jerks is like that moment in Labyrinth when Jennifer Connelly starts to do the incantation about David Bowie taking her baby brother away and there's a jump cut to a bunch of horrible little goblins in a big pile, all waking up at once with their wild, staring little puppet eyes, excited and hissing and smelling blood.
God help her, she woke the goblin pile.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:13 PM on January 6, 2015 [2 favorites]
"When people are funding groceries too? That's a little awk."
What do people think the money from kickstarters eventually goes to, once it gets paid out? Somebody gets to buy groceries in the end, whether that's the printer or the editor or the illustrator or whatever. Groceries get bought! If groceries didn't get bought for somebody money would not have needed to change hands.
Maybe she should have had a friend start a kickstarter in order to raise the funds to pay *her* to write the book. Surely that would have been legit...
posted by edheil at 7:15 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
What do people think the money from kickstarters eventually goes to, once it gets paid out? Somebody gets to buy groceries in the end, whether that's the printer or the editor or the illustrator or whatever. Groceries get bought! If groceries didn't get bought for somebody money would not have needed to change hands.
Maybe she should have had a friend start a kickstarter in order to raise the funds to pay *her* to write the book. Surely that would have been legit...
posted by edheil at 7:15 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
Waking the goblin pile is a great description for this.
posted by RobotHero at 7:16 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 7:16 PM on January 6, 2015 [3 favorites]
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posted by Shmuel510 at 6:23 PM on January 6, 2015