It's in Coke Zero and Diet Coke, too.
January 12, 2015 5:31 PM Subscribe
Non-alcoholic beverages, unknown influence on cell proliferation – an in vitro study. If the results are correct and true, an ingredient in Coca Cola (and to a lesser extent, Pepsi) from the USA (less so from Egypt and Canada, and not from Poland or Mexico) dramatically increases cell proliferation when given to cells growing in a plate.
You can access an open access pdf copy of the full paper by clicking on the green icon near the top right part of the screen from the FPP link.
3T3 NIH cells are immortalized connective tissue derived from a mouse embryo and are use routinely in research. There's not enough data in the paper to determine if the control (grown with an additional equivalent amount of fructose and glucose as soft-drink treated cells) had a growth rate different than no treatment. These cells normally grow and divide (proliferate) once every 20 hours.
However, treatment with 2% or 4% Coca Cola from the USA resulted in approximately 18.75 fold increase in proliferation compared to controls.
It's likely not caffeine, as xanthines typically arrest cell division in these kinds of experiments, and it's not HFCS as sugar-free Cokes from the USA also cause hyperproliferation.
Maybe Coca Cola will be the secret ingredient to revolutionize vat-grown meat?
You can access an open access pdf copy of the full paper by clicking on the green icon near the top right part of the screen from the FPP link.
3T3 NIH cells are immortalized connective tissue derived from a mouse embryo and are use routinely in research. There's not enough data in the paper to determine if the control (grown with an additional equivalent amount of fructose and glucose as soft-drink treated cells) had a growth rate different than no treatment. These cells normally grow and divide (proliferate) once every 20 hours.
However, treatment with 2% or 4% Coca Cola from the USA resulted in approximately 18.75 fold increase in proliferation compared to controls.
It's likely not caffeine, as xanthines typically arrest cell division in these kinds of experiments, and it's not HFCS as sugar-free Cokes from the USA also cause hyperproliferation.
Maybe Coca Cola will be the secret ingredient to revolutionize vat-grown meat?
If only they could find a way into that safe, where the secret recipe is stored. We could be on our way to eternal life.
Or eternal death.
posted by oceanjesse at 5:44 PM on January 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Or eternal death.
posted by oceanjesse at 5:44 PM on January 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
You continue amaze me with your ingenuity penis spam!
posted by srboisvert at 5:48 PM on January 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:48 PM on January 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
HFCS is not "forbidden" in Mexico. There is a 20% tax on beverages containing it. (Sorry, that link's from 2004, but nothing's popping up to contradict it on a quick search)
Also this paper is two years old. Also this paper is in an incredibly specifically named journal. Also they don't seem to cite the ingredients in any of the beverages anywhere.
Someone else will have to address the statistics because I've never taken any, but I would have liked to see some evidence of replicates.
I am still at work and thus cranky and this is seems... not rigorous.
posted by maryr at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Also this paper is two years old. Also this paper is in an incredibly specifically named journal. Also they don't seem to cite the ingredients in any of the beverages anywhere.
Someone else will have to address the statistics because I've never taken any, but I would have liked to see some evidence of replicates.
I am still at work and thus cranky and this is seems... not rigorous.
posted by maryr at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
This is pretty interesting, I'm sure they're going to do some more work to try to isolate exactly what it is that's causing this. Are there any other examples of compounds that have this effect?
No matter what, this will probably come in handy to quickly grow my spare-organ clone stock to adult size.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2015
No matter what, this will probably come in handy to quickly grow my spare-organ clone stock to adult size.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 5:49 PM on January 12, 2015
You scoff, but penis spam is a delicacy in some parts of Polynesia.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:56 PM on January 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 5:56 PM on January 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Kibologists have long theorized whether Pepsi is part of Animal 57's aquarium solution.
posted by delfin at 6:29 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by delfin at 6:29 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Coke is also a spermicide
(disclosure - I was in this lab at the time but didn't "work" on this)
posted by bowmaniac at 6:47 PM on January 12, 2015
(disclosure - I was in this lab at the time but didn't "work" on this)
posted by bowmaniac at 6:47 PM on January 12, 2015
I for one will certainly avoid laying in a dish and pouring soda all over myself. It's the juggalos I feel sorry for, though. Maybe this is why they don't want to talk to those scientists.
posted by xchmp at 6:48 PM on January 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by xchmp at 6:48 PM on January 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
So it's a no mechanism p-value-tastic paper? Ignore it.
posted by edd at 6:52 PM on January 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by edd at 6:52 PM on January 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Coke is also a spermicide--bowmaniac
What about Pepsi? More importantly, which one wins the taste test?
posted by eye of newt at 6:53 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
What about Pepsi? More importantly, which one wins the taste test?
posted by eye of newt at 6:53 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
...approximately 18.75 fold increase in proliferation compared to controls.
So what you're saying is, it adds life?
posted by The Tensor at 7:03 PM on January 12, 2015 [12 favorites]
So what you're saying is, it adds life?
posted by The Tensor at 7:03 PM on January 12, 2015 [12 favorites]
mhoye: yeah, these are essentially "made" "cancer" cells
maryr:
- it's not a HFCS mediating the effect
- I suspect the journal choice was based partially on (Polish) nationalism (understandable, really, Poland is doing some good science in a harsh environment, and promoting homegrown journals is fine) and audience; it's got an impact factor of 3 which isn't super, but it's no fly-by-night slouch
- thanks for pointing that out; it is strange that the work was done a couple of years ago, but it's only just now been published
- the authors specifically admit that they have no idea what the secret ingredient(s) is(are), the interesting thing is that there's evidently more of it in USA Coke than Coke in other countries, and that Pepsi also has some too
- if the data hasn't been fudged; the stats are strong (quadruplicates, 18x absolute magnitude effect), this should be dead simple to test/replicate (the cell culture people at my work don't like me very much, otherwise I'd go do it myself), and they report standard deviation rather than the more lovely-looking-but-rather-useless standard error
- sorry about your workday not going swell
Posted because I ran into this while buggering off because workyear not going swell, and thought that it was a cute paper.
spermicidal effect: it's probably the pH (phosphoric acid). You all probably have an agent that kills cancer dead in your kitchen and/or bathroom. Yep, you heard me. Kills cancer dead. It's in a plastic jug labelled bleach.
posted by porpoise at 7:04 PM on January 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
maryr:
- it's not a HFCS mediating the effect
- I suspect the journal choice was based partially on (Polish) nationalism (understandable, really, Poland is doing some good science in a harsh environment, and promoting homegrown journals is fine) and audience; it's got an impact factor of 3 which isn't super, but it's no fly-by-night slouch
- thanks for pointing that out; it is strange that the work was done a couple of years ago, but it's only just now been published
- the authors specifically admit that they have no idea what the secret ingredient(s) is(are), the interesting thing is that there's evidently more of it in USA Coke than Coke in other countries, and that Pepsi also has some too
- if the data hasn't been fudged; the stats are strong (quadruplicates, 18x absolute magnitude effect), this should be dead simple to test/replicate (the cell culture people at my work don't like me very much, otherwise I'd go do it myself), and they report standard deviation rather than the more lovely-looking-but-rather-useless standard error
- sorry about your workday not going swell
Posted because I ran into this while buggering off because workyear not going swell, and thought that it was a cute paper.
spermicidal effect: it's probably the pH (phosphoric acid). You all probably have an agent that kills cancer dead in your kitchen and/or bathroom. Yep, you heard me. Kills cancer dead. It's in a plastic jug labelled bleach.
posted by porpoise at 7:04 PM on January 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Personally I maintain my confidence that the world's scientists are working on a cure for whatever it is you die of when you drink 60 oz. of Diet Coke per day.
And really, while the side effects of Diet Coke may be problematic, me coping with humanity without adequate Diet Coke is likely to end in a murderous rampage.
In fact, sometimes when I am yelling at my kids for flooding the house or pooping in the floor vent or leaving Legos in the barefoot walking areas, my 3-year-old will race to the kitchen and return with a Diet Coke, saying, "Here, mommy! Now you feel better!" in the hopes that he can quell my anger with an offering of happy soda.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 PM on January 12, 2015 [32 favorites]
And really, while the side effects of Diet Coke may be problematic, me coping with humanity without adequate Diet Coke is likely to end in a murderous rampage.
In fact, sometimes when I am yelling at my kids for flooding the house or pooping in the floor vent or leaving Legos in the barefoot walking areas, my 3-year-old will race to the kitchen and return with a Diet Coke, saying, "Here, mommy! Now you feel better!" in the hopes that he can quell my anger with an offering of happy soda.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:19 PM on January 12, 2015 [32 favorites]
Have a coke and a smile...
posted by double block and bleed at 7:42 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by double block and bleed at 7:42 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
The first two figures should really be on a log scale, not a linear scale, and it also seems weird to me to take only a single time point here - these aren't "final" cell counts, they're the counts after 24 hours in fresh medium. Don't fibroblasts take a few days to reach confluence?
But anyway, I also don't understand why they didn't try just the next couple of obvious things in their controls, like adding phosphate. I understand making the political point that secret ingredient lists are not amenable to study, but the fact is that that soft drinks have other ingredients that we know about - and they even made a big deal out of the phosphoric acid concentration in the Materials and Methods.
(BTW, this journal claims to have an impact factor, but is not actually indexed in the ISI Journal Citation Reports; there's a link at the bottom of the journal website linking to Index Copernicus, so maybe that's where they got it -- except that that company has a pretty poor reputation for working with predatory journals.)
posted by en forme de poire at 7:44 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
But anyway, I also don't understand why they didn't try just the next couple of obvious things in their controls, like adding phosphate. I understand making the political point that secret ingredient lists are not amenable to study, but the fact is that that soft drinks have other ingredients that we know about - and they even made a big deal out of the phosphoric acid concentration in the Materials and Methods.
(BTW, this journal claims to have an impact factor, but is not actually indexed in the ISI Journal Citation Reports; there's a link at the bottom of the journal website linking to Index Copernicus, so maybe that's where they got it -- except that that company has a pretty poor reputation for working with predatory journals.)
posted by en forme de poire at 7:44 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
they report standard deviation rather than the more lovely-looking-but-rather-useless standard error
This is neither here nor there, but showing the standard error is totally appropriate if you're doing a t-test, since the t-statistic is the difference in means over the standard error. Neither is as good as just showing all of the data, of course.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:47 PM on January 12, 2015
This is neither here nor there, but showing the standard error is totally appropriate if you're doing a t-test, since the t-statistic is the difference in means over the standard error. Neither is as good as just showing all of the data, of course.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:47 PM on January 12, 2015
Fascinating, and I hope the research continues.
Could be a complete coincidence, but I know I haven't had any serious psoriasis plaques since I gave up almost all diet cola.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:01 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Could be a complete coincidence, but I know I haven't had any serious psoriasis plaques since I gave up almost all diet cola.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:01 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Couldn't they separate out constituent chemicals using using a chromatograph to home in on what the chemical of interest it?
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:32 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:32 PM on January 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
"In vitro" - goodbye. In other words, waste of time to read - at best an opening avenue for further research, a good signpost, a direction. Of zero practical applicability to any consideration as far as consumption.
posted by VikingSword at 8:43 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by VikingSword at 8:43 PM on January 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
This could be the medical breakthrough the world has been seeking.
I will begin lathering my bald head in Coke Zero immediately.
posted by surplus at 8:47 PM on January 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I will begin lathering my bald head in Coke Zero immediately.
posted by surplus at 8:47 PM on January 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good spot en forme de poire! Makes this look likely a fake to pad content.
Ok, gotta email up old buddies now and get them to try this for me.
Anyone else have some 3T3 cells growing or in lN2 somewhere and some coca cola? Hey, it's easier and far less ambiguous than trying to replicate the STAP fiasco last year.
sebastienbailard, yeah,I'm surprised that - people have totally done HPLC on Coca Cola. Example of a Pakistani group publishing [pdf] in a Pakistani journal on caffeine determination in a bunch of different commercial beverages by HPLC. They could totally have looked at all the other peaks to start guessing, then confirming, all of the ingredients. But is it really worth doing?
wrt the "secret formula," my personal conspiracy theory is that the deliberately obfuscated ingredients are further obfuscated by the inclusion of other "innocuous" non-taste/texture-affecting small molecules that co-migrate with the ingredient(s) in question, under chromatographic analysis. In competitive biotech markets, this is pretty standard especially for market leaders, and I suspect biotech learned a lot from the "food" industry.
posted by porpoise at 8:48 PM on January 12, 2015
Ok, gotta email up old buddies now and get them to try this for me.
Anyone else have some 3T3 cells growing or in lN2 somewhere and some coca cola? Hey, it's easier and far less ambiguous than trying to replicate the STAP fiasco last year.
sebastienbailard, yeah,
wrt the "secret formula," my personal conspiracy theory is that the deliberately obfuscated ingredients are further obfuscated by the inclusion of other "innocuous" non-taste/texture-affecting small molecules that co-migrate with the ingredient(s) in question, under chromatographic analysis. In competitive biotech markets, this is pretty standard especially for market leaders, and I suspect biotech learned a lot from the "food" industry.
posted by porpoise at 8:48 PM on January 12, 2015
So instead of Brawndo, we should've been using Coke the whole time?
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:52 PM on January 12, 2015
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:52 PM on January 12, 2015
So instead of Brawndo, we should've been using Coke the whole time?
Ohhh...I think I know what the secret ingredient is, what plants crave.
posted by roquetuen at 12:09 AM on January 13, 2015
Ohhh...I think I know what the secret ingredient is, what plants crave.
posted by roquetuen at 12:09 AM on January 13, 2015
If only they could find a way into that safe, where the secret recipe is stored.
Nutmeg! THAT'S the secret flavor in Coke! GOD is that obvious!
posted by FatherDagon at 7:24 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nutmeg! THAT'S the secret flavor in Coke! GOD is that obvious!
posted by FatherDagon at 7:24 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
And really, while the side effects of Diet Coke may be problematic,
The only discernible negative side effect of diet cola is that it turns people who decry science denialism into science denialists as they contort themselves into incredibly awkward positions that require ignoring the overwhelming and repeated evidence that it isn't harmful in favour of a few never-replicated studies. The desperation with which people attempt to bolster their conviction that Diet Cola upsets the moral order of the universe continually amazes me. It's like zero calorie sweeteners are the birth control pill and abortion and of beverage world. How dare people not suffer the consequences of their choices!
I drink my excessive amounts of diet cola with the same confidence that it is safe for me as I have that the world is warming as result of mankind's activity. In fact the two go together quite well.
posted by srboisvert at 9:10 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
The only discernible negative side effect of diet cola is that it turns people who decry science denialism into science denialists as they contort themselves into incredibly awkward positions that require ignoring the overwhelming and repeated evidence that it isn't harmful in favour of a few never-replicated studies. The desperation with which people attempt to bolster their conviction that Diet Cola upsets the moral order of the universe continually amazes me. It's like zero calorie sweeteners are the birth control pill and abortion and of beverage world. How dare people not suffer the consequences of their choices!
I drink my excessive amounts of diet cola with the same confidence that it is safe for me as I have that the world is warming as result of mankind's activity. In fact the two go together quite well.
posted by srboisvert at 9:10 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's bad for your teeth tho.
posted by maryr at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by maryr at 9:26 AM on January 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
porpoise: wrt the "secret formula," my personal conspiracy theory is that the deliberately obfuscated ingredients are further obfuscated by the inclusion of other "innocuous" non-taste/texture-affecting small molecules that co-migrate with the ingredient(s) in question, under chromatographic analysis. In competitive biotech markets, this is pretty standard especially for market leaders, and I suspect biotech learned a lot from the "food" industry.The author of "Big Secrets" had a lab analyze KFC's "11 herbs and spices". Only pepper, salt, and MSG were detected, IIRC.
posted by IAmBroom at 9:57 AM on January 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
If it increases infections of the mouth and throat, that wouldn't surprise me if they also own cold and flu patents medicine brands. If it increases cancer, maybe it is a carcinogen in the water. Glyophosphate in water, maybe, or another chemical environmental item, banned in the other countries.
posted by Oyéah at 10:03 AM on January 13, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 10:03 AM on January 13, 2015
IAmBroom: "The author of "Big Secrets"
I checked that book out so many times from the library as a little precocious know-it-all! <3
posted by symbioid at 10:13 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I checked that book out so many times from the library as a little precocious know-it-all! <3
posted by symbioid at 10:13 AM on January 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's bad for your teeth tho.
Not really. Sugar and acids are quickly cleared from the mouth by the normal action of saliva. When the source of the acid and sugar is a liquid, it's spread out over the entire mouth surface, rather than concentrated in once place. However, anything carby that can get stuck in your teeth (potato chips and bread, for example) will sit there, being slowly broken down into dextrin and maltose, providing a locally-concentrated fuel-source for the bacteria that produce the acid that causes cavitites to form.
posted by xchmp at 11:19 AM on January 13, 2015
Not really. Sugar and acids are quickly cleared from the mouth by the normal action of saliva. When the source of the acid and sugar is a liquid, it's spread out over the entire mouth surface, rather than concentrated in once place. However, anything carby that can get stuck in your teeth (potato chips and bread, for example) will sit there, being slowly broken down into dextrin and maltose, providing a locally-concentrated fuel-source for the bacteria that produce the acid that causes cavitites to form.
posted by xchmp at 11:19 AM on January 13, 2015
More importantly, which one wins the taste test?
The sperm.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:29 AM on January 13, 2015
The sperm.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:29 AM on January 13, 2015
xchmp: Sugar and acids are quickly cleared from the mouth by the normal action of saliva. When the source of the acid and sugar is a liquid, it's spread out over the entire mouth surface, rather than concentrated in once place.While that has always made sense to me logically... can you cite it? I generally hear the opposite: mouth acidity spikes after eating sugar, and remains high for X minutes.
I decided that either cavity-causing bacteria grab and store the sugars, releasing the acid gradually, or else the general detritus of placque and dead bacteria storehoused it (effectively sponging up the sugar). But that was just my guesswork.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:43 PM on January 13, 2015
While that has always made sense to me logically... can you cite it? I generally hear the opposite: mouth acidity spikes after eating sugar, and remains high for X minutes.
It's always seemed to me that people who I know to be regular Coke drinkers versus Diet Coke drinkers tend to have a worse smell in their breath. In my head I attribute it to Coke drinkers' mouth bacteria doing a happy breeding dance because of the sugar...while the bacteria in Diet Coke drinkers' mouths have no such breeding party.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2015
It's always seemed to me that people who I know to be regular Coke drinkers versus Diet Coke drinkers tend to have a worse smell in their breath. In my head I attribute it to Coke drinkers' mouth bacteria doing a happy breeding dance because of the sugar...while the bacteria in Diet Coke drinkers' mouths have no such breeding party.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2015
Doughnuts and potato chips processed at the highest temperature gave rise to the highest amount of the sugars compared with the other test foods. The study showed that the longer that foods are retained in the oral cavity, the greater the potential the starch has to break down into sugars and contribute to the caries process. The initial content of sugars was not the culprit; rather, it was the type of starch and extent of starch retention time in the oral cavity that determined the relative cariogenic risk of the foodTouger-Decker, Riva & van Loveren, Cor. Sugars and dental caries. Am J Clin Nutr October 2003 vol. 78 no. 4 881S-892S
...
Liquid sugars, such as those found in beverages and milk drinks, pass through the oral cavity fairly quickly with limited contact time or adherence to tooth surfaces. However, fluid intake patterns can influence the caries risk of the beverages. Holding sugar-containing beverages in the oral cavity for a prolonged time or constant sipping of a sugared beverage increases the risk of caries.
posted by xchmp at 1:32 PM on January 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
The author of "Big Secrets" had a lab analyze KFC's "11 herbs and spices". Only pepper, salt, and MSG were detected, IIRC.
He's part of the cover-up! You can't handle the truth!
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:12 PM on January 13, 2015
He's part of the cover-up! You can't handle the truth!
posted by sebastienbailard at 5:12 PM on January 13, 2015
« Older Snake & Bacon take on the Grey Lady... and get... | Inside Woodstock with organizer Michael Lang Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I wonder what it does to cancer cells.
posted by mhoye at 5:42 PM on January 12, 2015 [26 favorites]