The new male body
January 20, 2015 8:56 PM   Subscribe

It’s ‘Brad Pitt in Fight Club’. That’s the body blokes ask for. Yesterday: Roided out bodybuilders. Today: V-lined ab-focused fat free men ready for their HD selfie. Bye bye Arnold. Hello Dan Osborne. One reporter spends three months in the gym " to find out what ripped-to-shit feels like."

I have found myself simultaneously fascinated and repulsed by sporno culture: the enthusiastic pursuit of a physical aesthetic and, particularly, the documenting of your bodybuilding achievements via every available social media outlet feels somehow un-British. Vulgar.

“Of course,” Simpson counters, via email. “That’s one of its great virtues. Vulgarity, like sex, is never ironic. Which is why hipsters, the anti-sexual wing of metrosexuality, hate spornosexuals. Which shades into the general, historical English (middle class) problem with bodies and pleasure. And the particular discomfort with the ‘open’, ‘passive’, neediness of today’s male’s desire to be desired.”
posted by kanewai (167 comments total) 28 users marked this as a favorite
 
So, what, only two pizzas on pizza night? Man, forget it.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:05 PM on January 20, 2015 [8 favorites]


Bits of this article read like sponsored content, the author doesn't go into much depth about diet or fitness regimen, but what really grates on me is that hipster line. If what he says is true, than there is no ways health goth would be a thing.
posted by _pmg at 9:08 PM on January 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


health goth

hahaha oh god what
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:10 PM on January 20, 2015 [44 favorites]


Jokes aside, I guess it wouldn't mind having a V-line. A v-line to the all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet! Booyah!
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:11 PM on January 20, 2015 [17 favorites]


Isn't a V-line the shape of my middle-aged chest under my binder?
posted by Dreidl at 9:25 PM on January 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Haha that guy's wearing a They Live T-shirt.... Oh and he's all sexy and crap, too, but mostly the shirt.
posted by Huck500 at 9:27 PM on January 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


Vulgar.

This is a worthless word used by worthless people. As are "metrosexual" and "spornosexual."
posted by Sys Rq at 9:30 PM on January 20, 2015 [3 favorites]


I had great fun when I started working out a lot: people would remark on my weight loss and I would tell them I had tapeworms.
posted by um at 9:37 PM on January 20, 2015 [31 favorites]


Jesus, are those pictures really the same guy before and after over 12 weeks?
posted by GuyZero at 9:48 PM on January 20, 2015


12 weeks, meet 5 hours.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:51 PM on January 20, 2015 [12 favorites]


Already pretty-strong Esquire reporter drops some body fat, humble-brags about feeling conflicted about it, and talks to Mark Simpson for some reason: am I basically summarizing this right?
posted by en forme de poire at 9:53 PM on January 20, 2015 [14 favorites]


Eh, more like slightly squishy average rather than already pretty strong, but yeah. Although the final photos make me wonder how many times he skipped leg day, why isn't he showing off ripped quads. Why aren't my quad needs being met. if i can do 120kg leg press then so can this young whippersnapper by god
posted by poffin boffin at 10:09 PM on January 20, 2015 [14 favorites]


Personally I'm going for 'Brian Dennehy in Belly of an Architect'.
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:21 PM on January 20, 2015 [4 favorites]


In the after photo, his hair's also much better, the makeup on his face is much better, the lighting is better, the pose is better (more dynamic) and the Photoshop is better. C'mon.
posted by alex_skazat at 10:23 PM on January 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


This is a worthless word used by worthless people. As are "metrosexual" and "spornosexual."

do you think they're meaningless? or was that just a random sneer?
posted by Sebmojo at 11:00 PM on January 20, 2015 [2 favorites]


The new male body, based on a film that came out sixteen years ago.
posted by ominous_paws at 11:14 PM on January 20, 2015 [19 favorites]


It is important to note that the most important part of getting 6 pack abs is losing a layer of fat, not exercising (unless the exercise is contributing to the loss of that fat).

The person in the after picture has lost a lot of body fat compared to the before picture. Yes he's more toned too, but without the loss of body fat, his stomach would look just like the before picture.

(In any case for best health just exercise and don't worry about the abs, but I guess the whole point of the article is looking good, not being healthy).
posted by eye of newt at 11:47 PM on January 20, 2015 [6 favorites]


The new male body, based on a film that came out sixteen years ago.

ATTN ALL MEN, the new ideal physique is no longer 'hugely muscular @ 15% bodyfat' but now 'merely very muscular @ 8% bodyfat', plz adjust bulk/cut cycles accordingly
posted by en forme de poire at 11:56 PM on January 20, 2015 [27 favorites]


(invert and repeat for infinity reps every five years)
posted by en forme de poire at 11:57 PM on January 20, 2015 [1 favorite]


I couldn't figure out from the article: is v-line is the same thing as Jesus lines or cum gutters? Inquiring minds and all that....
posted by romakimmy at 12:05 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


He looked nicer in the before photos. This was very depressing in the same way fad diets are. People are very unhappy in deep ways we are a long way from understanding.
posted by colie at 12:39 AM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


yes, romakimmy.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 12:46 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Wow that's an impressive transformation. But even as I was admiring the "after" pic I was thinking how much more suited the "before" version was to cuddling. I can imagine lying beside that person, watching tv with my hand on their belly, and feeling comfortable. The other guy, though - I'd worry too much that he was judging my wobbly arse and he wouldn't want to eat Doritos in bed with me so where's the fun in that?
posted by billiebee at 12:54 AM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


He looked nicer in the before photos. This was very depressing in the same way fad diets are. People are very unhappy in deep ways we are a long way from understanding.

While I'm not going to be slaying myself to achieve the look any time soon, this comment contains an unpleasant amount of judgement, presumption, and maybe even projection?
Given that in the UK at least the sporno trend seems to be coinciding with a significant drop in alcohol and drug use age among the young, it might not be crazy to assume this lot are in fact happier than those who came before them.
posted by ominous_paws at 1:09 AM on January 21, 2015 [14 favorites]


I don't get all the bitching upthread, complaining about an Esquire article being about some fashion-fad for men. ? Its ESQUIRE?! but this does seem a real thing. My cousin who is early 20s is exactly like this. Always at the gym.

So you can get there in 12 weeks - working out 4 times a week at the gym, but what happens when you stop working out all the time?
posted by mary8nne at 1:45 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


This was me before I gave up smoking and put on 20 years.
posted by Wolof at 1:54 AM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


The genius of the word “functionality” is that it allows closet-spornos — those who are secretly exercising to attain a pumped, aesthetically-pleasing physique but are too grown-up to admit it — to pursue their goal with impunity. Take Simon Waterson, Daniel Craig’s personal trainer for the Bond films. “Aesthetics were never on the table”, he sniffed in an interview with bodybuilding.com. “It wasn’t about creating a certain look; it was about creating a certain performance, being functional, and being able to look like you can do shit. The aesthetics was just a byproduct.”
Some people really do view the aesthetics as a pleasant byproduct. I highly doubt that professional actors working out to look like a character do. I work out to improve sport performance but I don't deny that I love the aesthetic effect it has. I just don't organize my training around the aesthetics.

It is interesting that this look that men are gravitating towards, along with "strong is the new skinny" for women, is so close to performance-based training while still being a 100% aesthetic goal for training. (I mean, bodybuilding competitions literally opened a new division for it.) I hope this makes the transition to rational, performance-based training easier.

Jesus, are those pictures really the same guy before and after over 12 weeks?

Three months is plenty of time for that kind of transformation, given the programming:
four weekly one-on-one sessions with Walker plus “homework” (think sprints, press-ups and cardio) and a complete diet overhaul.
I don't know if the diet & workout he was on is sustainable. It might be, it might not. He remarks with surprise that the workouts become "almost...enjoyable?", so, probably, though it sounds like he won't stick with it. But nothing about what he did is ridiculous or unattainable. One has to do the work and eat right. It doesn't have to be guilty self-flagellation, it just has to be consistent. Obviously if one is at a different starting point then it's a different story, but three months of 5+ sessions a week is plenty of time if one spends it on well-organized training towards a specific goal.

Plus, as alex noted above, they took dishonest before/afters. Note the slumped, hunched, overexposed 'before' and the lit-from-the-top, angled, breath-held, stomach-vacuumed 'after. There's a reason that progress pics are supposed to be taken in the same posture, camera, lighting, and clothes.
posted by daveliepmann at 1:56 AM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


So you can get there in 12 weeks - working out 4 times a week at the gym, but what happens when you stop working out all the time?

He was working out a minimum of 5 or 6 times a week and he was on a diet. But he could definitely maintain or even improve his performance and physique with only 2 or 3 workouts a week and eating smart.
posted by daveliepmann at 1:59 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I ate an ice cream after writing my last comment.
posted by Wolof at 2:08 AM on January 21, 2015 [24 favorites]


I had a body like that a couple of decades ago, maybe a little more buff. Here is my secret; I was young and stacked fucking 110 pound boxes all night in a freezer for shit pay. As I got older I used to go to the Y and work out but I could never really get into it because when I start lifting things the result is supposed to be a paycheck.

So if you see a stranger on the street in the summertime wearing a t-shirt and he looks like that guy keep in mind he might not spend a single second in the gym and may in fact have a job stacking fucking 110 pound boxes all night in a freezer for shit pay.
posted by vapidave at 2:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [30 favorites]


Well, kind of... "Self improvement is masturbation", spoken by an actor who would have worked out at a level almost impossible for a mere pleb with a full-time job.

As far as Fight Club eventually became about the rejection of the charismatic bollocks spouted by Pitt's character, I suppose you could see it as a rejection of that kind of physique, which felt emblematic of the character's super-macho rejection of self-improvement culture.
posted by ominous_paws at 3:29 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


rejection.
posted by ominous_paws at 3:30 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Ugh, I hate the "_____sexual" portmanteaux. It's bad enough that they're all corny, forced, trying-to-make-fetch-happen neologisms that no one seems to say outside of lifestyle articles. It's worse that they describe fashion trends that have nothing to do with actual sexuality. Worst of all, the forerunner of them, "metrosexual," was coined specifically to mean "well-groomed but NOT GAY." When someone says "spornosexual" or "lumbersexual" with a straight face, it's like a teenage bro raising his hands and hastily declaring "no homo!" even though no one asked and no one cares.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:55 AM on January 21, 2015 [22 favorites]


I picked up Howard Schatz's Athlete because it clearly shows even if your criteria is "elite athlete" there's still a large number of body types. It helped me realize that popular culture was clouding my perception, making me feel bad about what I am and what I'm attracted to, even though I was trying to not let that happen. Now I'm more comfortable with myself and others. We're all optimized for what we do, which is usually not "current decade underwear model" or even "athlete".

You're right billiebee - what happened to the cuddle?
posted by easyasy3k at 4:15 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


TIL that lumbersexual is a word and now I have to go outside and laugh and laugh and laugh
posted by billiebee at 4:15 AM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


So the guy says he wants to see what being ripped feels like, and then writes nothing about the actual sensation? Heck, I really wanted to know, not just see a photo.
posted by kinnakeet at 4:31 AM on January 21, 2015 [16 favorites]


Wow that's an impressive transformation. But even as I was admiring the "after" pic I was thinking how much more suited the "before" version was to cuddling.

Nobody snuggles with after-pic! You strap yourself in and feel the G's!
posted by Navelgazer at 5:00 AM on January 21, 2015 [18 favorites]


Did they actually pay attention to the movie?

Self-improvement is masturbation.


You just reminded me of an interview with Michael Douglas where he talked about how all these guys would tell him that they got into stockbroking because they wanted to be like Gordon Gekko.
posted by kisch mokusch at 5:14 AM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


I find it refreshing that so many men are now comfortable enough displaying their insecurities and neuroses so that we, the prospective consumer of their time and energy, can happily snort and say, "ummm, yeah, no thank you," at the first glimpse of all that fussily fastidious ab cultivation. Heavily textured abs have nothing to do with real fitness, or strength, or capability—they're just the cheap semiotics of trumpeted suitability, and what they really say isn't "I am a strong and capable man" as much as "I waste entire geological epochs at the gym while the wonders of the world pass me by."

It seems to work as a marketing ploy, though. People love stupid, worthless abs, even as most of those guys go teetering around on stick legs like human lollipops, because leg work is haaaaard, and the magazines tell you what fucked-up thing to eat or what fucked-up thing to do to make your abs just right so that people will finally love and desire you, and you better do it, because hey—it's tough sex market out there. I don't get it, because I work in construction and the business is full of genuinely functional and flaaaaming hot bodies configured in the way that actual work configures a body, but because those kinds of bodies don't have the Charles Atlas seal of approval, invisibility ensues.

Mind you, I'm not an entirely disinterested outsider, in that I've got enough muscle to kick the door off a truck, but I look like I ran into a phone booth to change into my superhero outfit, got stuck, and just decided to wear the phone booth instead, and I regularly use phrases like "hooo boy, look at the public transportation physique on that dude," coupled with a sharp intake of breath through pursed lips, because dayum, I bet that guy's train station is miles from home.

"You," say my hapless companions, "are one weird guy."

Then they tell me I'm a lumbersexual and I stop listening to them, though I do secretly consider opening a lumbersexual beauty salon where men pay good money to handle greasy auto parts until they've got black under their nails and grime that won't wash off their knuckles and get their beards and flannels dusted with fragrant sawdust while they sit under tanning lamps in t-shirts for the perfect farmers' tan.
posted by sonascope at 5:35 AM on January 21, 2015 [41 favorites]


billiebee: But even as I was admiring the "after" pic I was thinking how much more suited the "before" version was to cuddling. ... The other guy, though - I'd worry too much that he was judging my wobbly arse and he wouldn't want to eat Doritos in bed with me so where's the fun in that?

And the "after" version is covered in cooking spray or baby oil, and that would get the bed all greasy.
posted by clawsoon at 5:53 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I wonder if the comments above would be as judgmental if the article was about a woman instead of a man.
posted by garlic at 5:53 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


it was about ... being able to look like you can do shit. The aesthetics was just a byproduct

Someone doesn't know what "aesthetics" means.
posted by exogenous at 5:54 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


actors on anabolic steroids
posted by bukvich at 5:56 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't get it, because I work in construction and the business is full of genuinely functional and flaaaaming hot bodies configured in the way that actual work configures a body, but because those kinds of bodies don't have the Charles Atlas seal of approval, invisibility ensues.

Yes, this. I've been working with and supervising men who do heavy physical labor for about 20 years now, and none of them has ever had a gym body, but every one of them has had the kind of strength that comes from long hours of hard work. (It's never come up, but I doubt I'd hire someone with that gym body either, because it tells me loud and clear that they don't have experience on the job site.) I'm not going to criticize anyone for pursuing their personal aesthetic goals, but just because people are calling it "functional" doesn't make it so.

“It’s fitting,” says Simpson, “that in a post-industrial landscape, the lads in these programmes work on their own bodies in the gym instead of someone else’s property/product down the gym or the shipyard. The ‘structured’ reality is their own hyper-real bodies.”

This was for me the most interesting moment in the article, capturing exactly that tension between the personal focus and the wider setting.

So the guy says he wants to see what being ripped feels like, and then writes nothing about the actual sensation? Heck, I really wanted to know, not just see a photo.

I agree. He set everything up for that, and then never talked about it at all. What did his girlfriend think? Was it different walking down the street?
posted by Dip Flash at 5:57 AM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


Metafilter: just the cheap semiotics of trumpeted suitability
posted by chavenet at 5:58 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


I wonder if the comments above would be as judgmental if the article was about a woman instead of a man.

Hands up, I did not expect to see a "but what about the mennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn?" comment in this thread. That'll learn me.
posted by ominous_paws at 5:59 AM on January 21, 2015 [12 favorites]


On the one hand, I really support body modifications - I think there's something interesting, perverse, powerful, radical when people decide that they're going to transform themselves in new ways. So part of me looks at these bodies - which look weird to me, it makes me really anxious to see all the muscles in that much detail, like something is going to rupture - and I think oh wow, this is sort of neat and anti-Romantic/Natural and post-human and weird, and Kathy Acker totally got into body building late in her life inspired by the perversities of Yukio Mishima. And also I'm on kind of an anti-humanism kick lately and the implicit rejection of "natural" and understated/conventional beauty and bodies seems to me appropriate to the horror show of a world we live in - the modified, commercialized and terrifying body is appropriate for the age of violent inequality.

And I'm really all about rejecting the "but I wouldn't want to fuck that kind of body" narrative that emerges around this stuff, because "I wouldn't want to fuck that kind of body" is a banal and stupid critique.

On the other hand - and I speak as someone who has recently started going to the gym fairly seriously - gym culture, especially weight-lifting culture, kind of sucks, and I go to the gym with the "feminism and dismantling racism" part in its mission statement. Also, really, while there's certainly a critique of "natural" and "romantic" bodies, it's so totally captured by this rationalist/corporate ideology of improvement and the total self that it's pretty useless.

I would like cooler and more bizarre post humanist bodybuilding, please.
posted by Frowner at 6:02 AM on January 21, 2015 [16 favorites]


I could be wrong but every single one of these "trends" feels like a marketing push to create body anxiety in men. Are there actually any numbers to show this is more than a sub sub culture?
posted by heyitsgogi at 6:02 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


heyitsgogi, A casual glance around NYC suffices to demonstrate that the "big muscles" look of a decade ago is now considered déclassé (perhaps due to Jersey Shore backlash) and a slimmer but more ripped look is in.
posted by slkinsey at 6:07 AM on January 21, 2015


Frowner, it's super interesting to me that you see this in terms of body modification. Having been gifted a reasonably slim if unathletic frame, I've only needed to work out in the last few years of my life, and there is absolutely this slightly uncanny fascination as one's body transforms shape with the effort you put it. Like, my body's always violently rejected piercings and I've never gotten tattoos, and this immediately screamed out at me, 'so *this* is the way *I* can modify my body!'.

If you could send anything further to read on anything you mentioned I'd be massively into that, thank you...
posted by ominous_paws at 6:10 AM on January 21, 2015


the "big muscles" look of a decade ago is now considered déclassé (perhaps due to Jersey Shore backlash)

Some hipsters are looking to get '70s big.'

http://70sbig.com/about

posted by colie at 6:22 AM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


I would like cooler and more bizarre post humanist bodybuilding, please.

Yeah, there are some really .... odd and frankly disturbing subgroups out there. The guys injecting weird industrial lubricants, for example.
posted by aramaic at 6:23 AM on January 21, 2015


Trends like this will come and go, but big, strong, and lean never goes out of style.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 6:26 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Huh, most of the comments earlier in this thread aren’t what I expected at all, they seem weirdly dismissive and judgemental. I thought the guy offered a fairly interesting perspective on trying to navigate the difficult expectations and contradictions of this new gym culture, especially considering it’s in esquire… I’ll do my best to explain:

First of all, I guess I’m pretty firmly in the group that he identifies; I’m a straight, English, guy. I’m 23, I go to the gym, I wear skinny jeans and I try to take care of how I look. I don’t really identify as the person that that set of characteristics conjures up, but I do possess them all, and I think that’s at the root of the difficulty in general, and I think this attitude is unseperable from the movement (or subculture, or whatever it is).

In the article, Dan Osbourne discusses ‘spornosexuality’ (which is a horrible word, and I’m only using it here because I have to) with respect to hipsterdom, saying ’hipsters, the anti-sexual wing of metrosexuality, hate spornosexuals.’ I agree that they’re related, but I wouldn’t call them different facets of the same thing, but rather, I feel that spornosexuality is a mainstream reclamation of hipsterdom; it’s what happens when a movement gets too big to be contained entirely in East London post-ironic discos, and some of its affectations spread to kids in other cities who wear Adidas and drink Carlsberg and play Fifa. This means that a couple of problems arise: the first is that the movement’s inherited the same difficulties of identity that hipsters have. I don’t think that’s its own fault; both are manufactured, slightly derogatory labels that other people apply (or imply, in the case of spornosexuality, which I’ve never heard anyone say out loud), which puts one in this strange middle ground where you possess the shibboleths of a culture without feeling a part of it, or representative of it, so you’re judged on its failings, without feeling able to defend it. The other issue is that as there’s a spectrum between hipster and spornosexual, there are all of those complications in placing people on it, and it’s full of the little differences which breed contempt and you’re always open to judgement from both wings at once.

On top of that, there’s a big difference in what going to the gym signifies now, compared to say, ten years ago, when it was a hyper-masculine thing. That means older people are often at a loss when they find out I work out now. People who knew me as a kid don’t get what that nerdy guy’s trying to achieve by going there – as he’ll never be a proper jock. On the other hand, the big old guys at the gym find it funny that this skinny young guy is bothering to do bench presses when he’s obviously not a real man because he puts products in his hair in the changing room after his workout.

So, by working out, you’re open to all these criticisms from different angles, about your body, which can obviously be a sensitive subject, and you’ve got to do it all without admitting you’re a part of the sub-culture that’s instructing you. And also, you open yourself up as you’re clearly putting effort into something, in a culture which celebrates achievement without effort, along with the interplay between this and the national characteristic where you can’t admit to be doing something to make yourself look better, especially as a man without coming across as a narcissist (the crossfit example that he gives, talking about people working out for ‘function’ is a great, dishonest workaround for all of this).
Despite all of that, there’s still a big incentive to do it. Society projects the ideal of male beauty as this high-contrast photoshopped image of a ripped man with immaculate abs. It’s not a new issue obviously - see women’s magazines giving girls an unobtainable idea of a perfect body, but it seems society has less incentive to talk about it, maybe as this is more recent, or maybe because men shouldn’t care about how they look, I don’t know. But anyway, given that society’s decided that a man should look like this to look good, I find it easier to go along with it, and I think in general the social benefits outweigh the social costs.

Having expounded all of that, I should mention that I’ve got a sense of perspective about it all. Honestly, it’s not a big deal or commitment compared to loads of other stuff, I think my girlfriend spends more time each week on her appearance than I do on mine, just to get her hair and makeup to a level that society considers acceptable, and when I’m faced with people making contradictory judgements about my body, I can giggle under my breath and think that if half the population of the world has to deal with that on a daily basis, I can probably manage. It is interesting though, that this ‘spornosexual’ idea has given rise to men subjected to the same kind of judgements that were once the sole preserve of women.
posted by Ned G at 6:28 AM on January 21, 2015 [35 favorites]


I too think metrosexual is a revolting word and that spornosexual is much much worse but I think the overall point of this piece is right on and worth thinking about:
Metrosexuality is, in a paradox that Wilde would have relished, not skin deep,” he told The Telegraph. “It’s not about facials and manbags, guyliner and flip-flops. It’s not about men becoming ‘girly’ or ‘gay’.” Rather, it’s about the young-man-as-mediated-individual.
Some great work in feminism (like Susan Bordo's Unbearable Weight) makes a lot of an analysis of the way in which popular culture portrays female bodies, and the resulting way in which the external images in the media become internalized, transforming personal ideals into unattainable goals, thereby exerting a dominant force on the psyches of women, reducing their autonomy. Men were supposed to be relatively free of this external psychic domination, not because they didn't idealize media representations of masculinity, but because those images were simultaneously less caustic, less narrow and more attainable than the images of women. Orson Welles a leading man! Woody Allen a romantic figure who can attract the love of beautiful women! Elliot Gould as super-sexy in The Long Goodbye. Even Marlon Brando's coolness was all personality with a perfectly attainable body for a lot of young men who just played sports a bit and didn't overeat.

The feminist hope for equality was that images of femininity would become more realistic, more self-affirming, more attainable, not that images of men become as equally destructive and insane. The fact that that's the kind of equality we're moving towards is even scarier, and has to have destructive effects on our psyches. The simulacra is becoming the reality and reality inadequate to the simulacra.

I just hope I can train my emotion mask to present itself as reasonably satisfied with the impossibility of being satisfied.
posted by dis_integration at 6:30 AM on January 21, 2015 [19 favorites]


just because people are calling it "functional" doesn't make it so.
I think there's some confusion stemming from the author's conflation of the functional fitness paradigm with the "new"-physique bodybuilding.

Functional fitness can be flawed and overzealous and implemented poorly, but it's not wrong to say that the body you get from lifting for sports performance is more functional than the body you get from pure bodybuilding. You can lift more weight off the ground, over your head, you can run faster, you can jump higher.

However, obviously no body is optimized for all athletic functions. So you'll see a different physique from optimizing for manual labor versus, say, track or weightlifting. Let's just not throw the idea of functional training out with the board-shorts-bodybuilding bathwater.
posted by daveliepmann at 6:31 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


I found this article "Building a bigger action hero" very interesting as it is supremely detailed about the regimen, supplements required and it described the lengths men go to in order to look skinny/ripped for a movie role (think Matthew McConaughey in Magic Mike). It's pretty insane. The acting comes second and the guys are just wallpaper.

If anyone is taking orders, this is all the buff I need.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 6:47 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


St. Peepsburg, I think that guy probably is spending a decent amount of time in the gym to stay lean at least.
posted by garlic at 6:58 AM on January 21, 2015


Ah, the kids in the gym today. Can always tell when colleges are on break. Always the talk of what parents are out of town, for where the big party will be, and who drank how much beer/booze the last time, who is dating who etc. But then, more recently, it's all be about who's cutting weight to get ripped. TFA was surprisingly light on supplements. GNC is the ambrosia provider for this crowd.

The 70s big guys are all GOMAD (and lift things up and put them down), but the other side, these folks, are all about shakes, pills, powders and the like.

In one sense, can admire the time and focus necessary to achieve those goals. I mean, it keeps them off the streets or something. Maybe not terribly productive, and vain as ever, but not hurting anyway. But it's a huge time sink and investment.
posted by k5.user at 6:59 AM on January 21, 2015


Depends on which Paul I guess
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:05 AM on January 21, 2015


I could be wrong but every single one of these "trends" feels like a marketing push to create body anxiety in men. Are there actually any numbers to show this is more than a sub sub culture?
posted by heyitsgogi at 9:02 AM on January 21


I think creating body anxiety in men is one of those areas where society is making a real push for (the bad kind) of equality. I've got male friends who aren't even especially soft who constantly talk about tracking their calories (one dude once announced as he was logging three individual cherry tomatoes). It's not nearly nearly as bad as it is for women, obviously, but body anxiety in men feels to me like a genuinely growing problem.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


I am married. I take a walk around the block a few times a week, and ride my bike a mile and a half to and from work when the weather is nice. That's my workout. When the cuddly flabbosexual body-type makes a comeback, I'm ready.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


if people could put some kind of heads-up before they link to pictures of paul newman that would be great because i'm at work and i keep coming over all light-headed thx
posted by billiebee at 7:16 AM on January 21, 2015 [13 favorites]


My parents have a photo collage on their living room wall; one of the pictures is of my brother and I when we were 10 and 12 or so, respectively. We both look like miniature triathletes and are sporting wicked six-packs, so as long as there is photographic proof that I did have that sort of body at one point in my life I feel like I can rest easy.

Real easy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:40 AM on January 21, 2015


It's not exactly that I want men to have the same body anxiety as women, but I for one welcome the idea that men are starting to feel some pressure to conform to beauty/physical ideals, because hello welcome to what the rest of us are dealing with. I work out a lot, and try to look as good as possible, but there's still this prevailing idea that "women don't care about looks" so a lot of men don't put in much of an effort. Given all the effort and time I put in, it's kind of a bummer. A lot of men expect attractive/in shape women, but don't want to put in their own effort. Maybe not a popular opinion, and this case is of course extreme, but men starting to hit the gym 3-5 times a week and watching their diet in order to look good, I applaud it.
posted by zutalors! at 8:08 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


That homeless Superman pic is my favorite SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE HE DIDN't SHAVE HIS FACE NOR HIS DAMN BODY!!! Yes, you're all manly and cut and strong but where's the hair? Are you all swimmers?
posted by Asbestos McPinto at 8:15 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


I don't like men with... too many muscles. *lowers eyelids, blushes, looks away*
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:20 AM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


I didn't make him...FOR YOU!
posted by sonascope at 8:21 AM on January 21, 2015 [13 favorites]


This was a more interesting article than I expected - I think it's a valid trend to document - but it seems a little dishonest to play the Average Joe Gets Stacked game with a writer who is an occasional pro wrestler with a history of being pretty stacked.
posted by garlicsmack at 8:23 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


he might not spend a single second in the gym and may in fact have a job stacking fucking 110 pound boxes all night in a freezer for shit pay.

Well, nowadays it's also possible that his high priced extreme workout is stacking fucking 110 pound boxes in a freezer.
posted by FJT at 8:39 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Interesting stuff!

It is important to note that the most important part of getting 6 pack abs is losing a layer of fat, not exercising (unless the exercise is contributing to the loss of that fat).

This should be engraved on the door of every gym. I like to tell folks that I have a great six pack...wanna see it? You do? Me too! Unfortunately, it's under a rather modest layer of fat. If you want a six pack, all you have to do is get down to 12% body fat or lower. I'm actually planning to do that later this year for the novelty, but I don't plan to keep it going. I don't really need to be that skinny. Most of us have a six pack like the ocean's got mountains.

My wife was telling me the other day about how her coworkers are doing a 30-day ab challenge and she was thinking of joining. I said "what's your goal?" To flatten and "tone" the abs. I had to give her my disappointed face...I mean, we've talked about this stuff before. This ab challenge sounds like how I am always flattening and toning my biceps with extra curls (in the squat rack, naturally). Yeah, uh, no.

actors on anabolic steroids

Yes, this is a huge thing that doesn't get talked about. Plenty of celebrities are obviously taking drugs to improve their physiques. After all, it's bad enough in sports, and they don't make you piss in a cup to shoot a scene. Hugh Jackman has got to be one of the worst, although I admire his raw strength. The man is a legitimate beast these days.

I think the author was a little naive about this. The bodybuilding movement towards the super-ripped look is called the "aesthetic" look (and it is, admittedly, far more aesthetically pleasing that the huge-and-pumped bodybuilders). He failed to mention that poster child Zyzz almost certainly died due to his use of PEDs. The author underestimates how truly muscular guys like Lazar are. It's especially challenging to pack on that much muscle and keep body fat percentages in the single digits. Guys like Lazar are jacked as Arnie! There are all kinds of drugs out there that have all kinds of different effects, not just putting on bulk. These days, it's jokingly conveyed with a corruption of the bodybuilding mantra "Eat clean and train hard" as "Eat clen and tren hard".

However, obviously no body is optimized for all athletic functions. So you'll see a different physique from optimizing for manual labor versus, say, track or weightlifting. Let's just not throw the idea of functional training out with the board-shorts-bodybuilding bathwater.

I very much agree with this. I think that "functional" is a bit of a misnomer, because there are all kinds of different functions. I prefer the idea of "performative" goals where the goal is to be capable of taking the strength out of the gym.

Of course, my secret main objective is an aesthetic improvement. But I pretend to myself that this isn't my ultimate goal. Day-to-day, I'm focusing on performative metrics, like how much I can deadlift or overhead, and visual improvements do come as a byproduct. But I believe that making aesthetic improvements my actual objective is a bad idea. My reason is because you can fall into one of either two traps by doing so; either you reach your goal and lose motivation, or you're never satisfied and you develop body image issues. I've seen both happen with great frequency.
posted by Edgewise at 9:01 AM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]


I feel conflicted about this. On the one hand, I am certainly not willing to put in this kind of time and effort in exercise so I would be a howling hypocrite if I expected anyone else to do so.

On the other hand, have you ever thought about what it would feel like to be hugged by Chris Evans? Because I have. A lot.
posted by nonasuch at 9:02 AM on January 21, 2015 [13 favorites]


There are some interesting things here, but it will take a bit to sift them out from Mark Simpson's relentless flogging of "spornosexual" because he hasn't come up with a hot buzzword in twenty years.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:09 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Is it me, or is it kind of weird that every picture and guy featured in the article is a white guy? And a random Google image search of "spornosexual" also shows like 95% white guys. I mean, the difference between metrosexual to "spornosexual" is a barely a treble from that perspective.
posted by FJT at 9:13 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Plenty of celebrities are obviously taking drugs to improve their physiques.

Not everyone. Meet Lola Visual Effects.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:14 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


Anecdote: in my early 20s after moving to LA I joined a gym and went from 230 to 180 and got ripped. I never shaved so my six pack wasn't visible, but I can tell you what it's like to feel ripped.

It's cold. That body fat kept me warm and toasty, even in southern California. Not only did I have to buy smaller clothes, I had to buy warmer clothes.

Kind of glad I'm back up to 230, tbh.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:15 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


I've had a life-long struggle with being overweight and, as I started to approach a point where I could no longer deny being in my mid-30s I started to get worried about becoming a feeble old man and decided to do something about it. I had joined a gym in my late-20s, putzed around with some of those stupid strength machines, elipticals, and stationary bikes (I even tried jogging on the indoor track and I HATE jogging!). I found it to be too much hassle and take up too much time and stopped going.

Instead, I did some research and settled on just straight weightlifting (starting strength, specifically). I bought a 300Lbs weight set on craigslist (well, first a crappy one and then a much better set) and put it in the basement. So now, twice a week, I throw on some workout clothes, go downstairs and lift, take a quick shower, and go about my day. I was even having protein shakes for lunch and one before dinner (supposedly so that I'd eat less dinner and create a caloric deficit) as well as taking creatine supplements trying to maintain progression in my lifting. Then I remembered what my actual goal is, to not become a feeble old man. So I've backed off on a lot of that stuff and now I just lift twice a week and try to eat less and healthier. If I can lift more weight this week than I did last week, great, if not, that's fine too. I've finally been losing some weight after just getting slightly denser for a while. Clothes have started to fit better and I've needed to buy some new ones as I got too skinny for the old ones and I think I've got a pretty athletic body that is still under a solid layer of fat. I'm 5'9" 225Lbs and I can dead lift 330Lbs (if I ever get up to 500Lbs or maybe even 400Lbs I'll stop adding weight). Even if this is as good as it ever gets, it's good enough. I feel healthy and my wife likes the way my body looks and that's good enough.

I've always been a reasonable strong guy but now I'm a lot stronger and that has been kind of fun. Like, I had to try and jump up to grab something and ended up jumping a lot higher than I thought I should be able to. Or seeing someone struggle to lift something that they bought at the hardware store and just grabbing it and putting it in their car like it's no big thing.

I contrast this with a cousin of mine who is a few years older than me. His most common facebook post is him checking in at his gym (followed closely by selfies of parts of his body and climate change denial links or comments). My favorite comment was, "Anything is possible if you put in the work. Set a goal, ignore the detractors, and stay focused. When I started on 10/18/12 my arms measured in at a measly 14" today 18.5"."

First, what detractors? Like you told someone that you wanted to have 18.5" biceps and they told you that you couldn't do it? Second, I measure progress in pounds, not inches (at least when it comes to gains). Third, why is it so important that everyone know about your fitness goals and see pictures of your body all the damn time? If I want to know, I'll ask, otherwise just shut up about it.

I will say, however, that I keep him on my facebook feed because his BS helps me keep my goals in perspective.
posted by VTX at 9:15 AM on January 21, 2015 [10 favorites]


As a woman who so far only does random bodyweights-esque workout DVDs because I hate the gym, I love getting stronger. It just feels so goddamn good. Recently I've had to take a break because of a surgery and I am so sad that next time I do my workout I won't feel cool and strong as hell. But I will get there again. Similarly, I used to be able to run a 5k and now I can't because I got wimpy and it's too cold out and umm it's sad. But anyway, if strong is the new skinny for women, that's at least kind of fun. Because "nothing tastes as good as skinny feels" is just INCORRECT.

My boyfriend's brother lifts as a hobby and he keeps giving my boyfriend his hand-me-downs, because he's so swoll he had to go up a shirt size. It's rather impressive as he was previously the skinny, shrimpy brother. I must secretly(?) admit that I prefer a slightly pudgy man, for cuddling and Doritos reasons mentioned above. I doubt that the "sporno" trend will inspire a lot of emphatizing with women who have lived under "porno" standards for a long time now, but I do feel sorry for men who feel pressure to look this way, and I also feel that kind of, "why are you doing this, you look good when you're normal" type of thing that men say to women when they're trying very very hard to look good. So at least I emphathize with men more now.

Also "health goth" is such contrived trendpiece fodder (because normcore spoke to us all) but it still cracks me up every time.
posted by stoneandstar at 9:40 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm deeply envious of anyone who gets that ripped in such a short time. I lift five days a week, eat a paleo diet, and am part of the '70s Big community — and while I've lost a lot of body fat over three years, I'm still firmly in the super heavyweight class. But I'm pretty damn strong, which is way more important to me than whether or not my abs are visible. (Well, on a good day; on a bad day, I long desperately to be lithe enough to fit into the societal template for beautiful.)
posted by culfinglin at 9:54 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


45 year old guy who spent his 20s and 30s eventually looking like I had a truck tire around my waist under my shirt. I think I stopped getting on the scale at 240lbs.

Finally in my late 30s, I finally found a combination of exercise (home based prison-style calisthenics, kettlebells, & the occasional hot yoga class) and eating that has me hovering at 205 with a MUCH better working-muscle to insulation ratio, and which I can see myself continuing with in some form till I die. I'm in the best shape of my life at 45, and if I went back in time 20 years, I could kick the ass of my 25 year old self (and probably would, shouting "DON'T BE SO MUCH OF A DICK!" all the while.)

Vanity, thy name is dude in his mid-40s who has lost boo-coo blubber & traded it for muscle. Although while I can do more push-ups, bodyweight squats, & kettlebell get-ups than I ever could before, I'm actually smaller. I have an adjustable leather armband that I bought about a decade ago. I need to add a couple of new grommet holes bc it's just too big for my bicep, which is leaner and stronger and more defined than when I bought it.

I've still got some love handles, but 2015 is the year I've set as a benchmark that I wanna see my hip bones again. Haven't seen em since high school. That said, the only 6-pack I'm interested in is Lagunitas IPA.

"Gym Culture" is exactly why I work out at home. I'm also in my 40s and married, so maybe I don't feel the urgent need to look all "Sporno". Besides, I lean towards amateur porn, and amateur porn is filled with amateur bodies. If a dude wants to feel good about his workout progress, type "amateur" or "homemade" into your favorite porn search engine, and look at some of the average guys in front of the camera. I'm all for body acceptance, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't find the leaner, stronger me more aesthetically pleasing.

You don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the other guy trying to outrun the bear. And as Jack LaLanne once opined, loosing several inches off your waist makes your junk look bigger. (I paraphrase)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:10 AM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


Umm.... ew.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:21 AM on January 21, 2015


GISing "hip replacement selfie" comes up with disappointing results, although if my family's tendency toward joint replacements comes through in my case, I may be able to fix that personally.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:24 AM on January 21, 2015


Heavily textured abs have nothing to do with real fitness, or strength, or capability—they're just the cheap semiotics of trumpeted suitability, and what they really say isn't "I am a strong and capable man" as much as "I waste entire geological epochs at the gym while the wonders of the world pass me by."

this has always been my feeling.... I've always sort of pitied guys with their gym built bodies. It just seems so wasteful ... you put in all those hours so you can look chiseled? imposing? When you could look good just be eating right and exercising moderately?

I work at a very physical job and I can't recall a time when I felt as good about the way my body looks as I do now. Nothing too special, but compared to my previously slender but doughy body, the transformation in a year has been remarkable. But I would find it very depressing to strive for this in a gym.
posted by jayder at 10:26 AM on January 21, 2015


I've always sort of pitied guys with their gym built bodies. It just seems so wasteful ... you put in all those hours so you can look chiseled? imposing? When you could look good just be eating right and exercising moderately?


It's a hobby. People like spending time on their hobbies.
posted by zutalors! at 10:52 AM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


Many people work jobs that build musculature. Working out makes a basic structure you choose, and protects from repetitive motion injuries, and back strain from physical labor. Working out is a way to own and maintain your body.

For those who complain about the "cuddle" non-issue, those muscles relax after work, uh huh!

I think this naming, meterosexual, hipster, is just typical discrimination, that tries to make some sort of cultural primer for what authors hope will be, an entire readership in need of edification. How proud that guy must be, who finds his spanky new made up social categories in print? See, he becomes the "definer." Why do we buy this cringeworthy shit?

The author's whiny but dedicated transformation has appeal in the final physical reality, confessing publicly to his doubts is how he makes his money, at least in this article.

Cuddle-worthy! Oh my God who talks this shit?
posted by Oyéah at 10:56 AM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]



For those who complain about the "cuddle" non-issue, those muscles relax after work, uh huh!


yep, fit/muscly guys are plenty cuddly. Yep.
posted by zutalors! at 11:00 AM on January 21, 2015


One interesting tidbit that comes out of longevity research is that later in life low body fat is a mortality indicator. Basically, you lack the fat reserves to carry you through any illness that affects digestion or appetite. That is why I carry my own life-preserver around my waist.
posted by srboisvert at 11:00 AM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


On the other hand, have you ever thought about what it would feel like to be hugged by Chris Evans? Because I have. A lot.

Long ago I dated a guy who was really built - he lifted heavy objects for a living, had played sports in school and was just sort of naturally mesomorphic anyway. A prince among men, too - he had his problems, but he was an absolutely magnificent boyfriend. Also very handsome in a big-nosed and strong-featured way. (Yes, everyone should be jealous of nineties Frowner. Sadly, we didn't really have enough in common to keep things going.)

My point being that his hugs...really weren't that different from other people's hugs. Nothing wrong with them, mind you, and if you want to be hugged by Chris Evans specifically, well, I'm sure he's a delightful fellow, or at least since I have him confused with Steve Rogers as he appears in American Captain, I like to think he's a delightful fellow...but it's not as though the point of the exercise is to be crrrrrrrrushed by the musculature, unless you're into that. You would be surprised, in fact, by how not-different the hugs and ensuing activity were from hugs and ensuing activity with people who are not built.

Still, he was an awfully nice guy. And did I mention that he was a sharp dresser?
posted by Frowner at 11:01 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


It seems in any discussion of fitness there are always comments about "hours wasted" to achieve a goal physique. As opposed to time spent doing... what? Watching tv? Pinterest? Commenting on metafilter? We all waste some time on our hobbies. And anybody who has time to keep up with the Kardashians or beanplate can find five or six hours a week to work out.

Plus, moderate eating and moderate efforts produce moderate results and that isn't what everybody is looking for. I don't want to look moderately good, I want to look like the Farnese Hercules. Luckily there is room enough in this town for the both of us.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 11:02 AM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


That is not the case, studies showed that individuals at 5% below ideal body weight, live longer.
posted by Oyéah at 11:03 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


It seems in any discussion of fitness there are always comments about "hours wasted" to achieve a goal physique. As opposed to time spent doing... what? Watching tv? Pinterest? Commenting on metafilter? We all waste some time on our hobbies

I feel like people like to celebrate the virtues of eating heavy food and inactivity, and the resulting soft bodies, an awful lot. It sounds defensive to me, but whatever people want to do they should do.
posted by zutalors! at 11:12 AM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Somebody please explain what "sporno" is supposed to mean. Is it a clumsy portmanteau of sports and porn?

You know, I moderate a huge forum and we had to ban bodybuilders due to their hijacking every conversation into some idiotic topic about "swoles."
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:28 AM on January 21, 2015


OK thanks, those are just after the points where I followed links that went nowhere useful. What clumsy word. They should just call them swoles, like they call themselves. It's so stupid and ridiculous, it's a self-parody. Apparently it pre-dates the word spornosexuals.
posted by charlie don't surf at 11:44 AM on January 21, 2015


On the other hand, have you ever thought about what it would feel like to be hugged by Chris Evans?

Pretty easy for Chris Evans to hug people, given how pitched-forward his shoulders already are from so much bench pressing. Buddy needs to do more rows to balance things out.
posted by turbid dahlia at 11:52 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Cuddle-worthy! Oh my God who talks this shit?

I appreciate a chiselled physique from an aesthetic point of view, and as someone fighting a lifelong battle with acute laziness I have nothing but admiration for people who put in the effort to get the body they want. I just like to feel squish when I cuddle someone is all. I like to grab me a little handful of soft flesh and I enjoy the extra body fat that you can sink your teeth into i've said too much
posted by billiebee at 11:59 AM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


The best part of dating a buff human of any gender is the fact that after a long night down the pub you can drunkely demand that they carry you home and it happens and you feel very tall and invincible.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:08 PM on January 21, 2015 [7 favorites]


I like to grab me a little handful of soft flesh and I enjoy the extra body fat that you can sink your teeth into i've said too much

What you want is a Barrel
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:18 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


The best part of dating a buff human of any gender is the fact that after a long night down the pub you can drunkely demand that they carry you home and it happens and you feel very tall and invincible.

One need not be polished to a glossy shine like an apple and be contoured like the tread on an overpriced day-glo running shoe to sling a dude over one's shoulder in a fireman's carry for either heroic or nefarious purposes. Stout dudes are working out all the time, which is why we usually have breathtaking calves.
posted by sonascope at 12:33 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


[on a headlong slide toward death and annihilation] sad to see those other people wasting their time
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:00 PM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


It's a hobby. People like spending time on their hobbies.

But I've always wondered what the real motivation of the hobby is. Many/most men who get really ripped/buff, in my experience, have seemed kind of sad, vain, and insecure, and really preoccupied with seeming tough and imposing ... Like they are scaring anyone in contemporary western society. And if they ever had to "use" their big muscles, like, in a fight, it would be kind of sad because, hey, hooray, your big ornamental man-muscles finally got some use... you go, swole dude!
posted by jayder at 1:06 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


And if they ever had to "use" their big muscles, like, in a fight...

I am no expert, but I've heard people who claimed to be experts say that weightlifting is often counterproductive for boxing because it puts more "push" in your punch and less "snap", and it's the "snap" that does the damage.

Whatever the hell that means. But it's an interesting datapoint for the "functional" argument. I think.
posted by clawsoon at 1:13 PM on January 21, 2015


But I've always wondered what the real motivation of the hobby is.

For gay men, it's to get truckloads of hot man-on-man sex, basically. And it usually works.
posted by blucevalo at 1:28 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


It's funny, because my experience is the exact opposite. Really big and strong guys are almost always the nicest, most down to earth people I've ever interacted with. They are always happy to give a little advice over email or Facebook or whatever. Louie Simmons for one is famous for giving his number out and talking about lifting to anybody who calls him, no matter how new and weak they were.
posted by mrbigmuscles at 1:36 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Training for the purpose of body aesthetics does fit very nicely with one part of what Thorstein Veblen said goes into a conspicuous leisure activity: The outcome resembles the outcome of a productive activity, but with just enough difference to make it clear the person doing the activity is so well off that they've got plenty of time to waste on non-productive activity. It's a signifier of prosperity and power.

So you go sailing but don't catch any fish; you spend all day in the sun but on the beach instead of in the field; you grow and cut grass but don't feed any cows with it; you read history and philosophy but don't do any politics or teaching; you lift heavy things up hundreds of times a week but always put them down exactly where you found them.
posted by clawsoon at 1:36 PM on January 21, 2015 [12 favorites]


I am no expert, but I've heard people who claimed to be experts say that weightlifting is often counterproductive for boxing because it puts more "push" in your punch and less "snap", and it's the "snap" that does the damage.

This is true to a point. I mean, if you've got noodle arms, pressing some iron will definitely put some pep into your punch. Traditional weightlifting will improve your punching power, but past a certain point, the bulk can get in the way.

However, there's ALL KINDS of weightlifting out there; different lifts and lifting protocols can produce vastly different results. What we're talking about when we refer to punching force is what the athletic world refers to as "power," as distinct from "strength." Actually, power in this sense is very similar to how it's used in physics; namely, the amount of work you can produce over a very short interval of time. Training for power utilizes different kinds of exercises (power cleans and other Olympic lifts, box jumps, push presses, plyometrics) performed with explosive intent. These kinds of exercises WILL make your punch snappier, and they can (and should) be performed in conjunction with pure strength training (at least, according to guys like Rippetoe, chief evangelist of the power clean).

For that matter, it's even quite possible to lift weights for endurance and even weight loss. Kettle bells are commonly used for these purposes, but any compound lift performed with low weight at high repetitions can target cardiovascular health and fat burning as effectively as any kind of "cardio" workout. After all, calisthenics are a kind of weight lifting where the weight is you.
posted by Edgewise at 1:44 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


I think some of the feeling that people are wasting their time, at least for me, comes from how much effort people put into these workouts. The thing about weight lifting, as an example, is that as long as you do it regularly and increase the weights involved, nearly any program will work. Some will work faster than others, some will take more time, some might have more sporadic or more linear gains but they all work. There really isn't a BAD way to lift weights (or more generally strength training of any kind) as long as you're not hurting yourself, you just might be in a program that is less than optimal for you. However, there are some pretty solid marginal returns where working out more, longer, harder, doesn't do that much for you. So, a guy who lifts three days a week and a guy who lifts five days a week will both probably be similarly strong (all other things being equal). And then, in addition to abs being made in the kitchen, muscles aren't made in the gym, they're made in bed. So working out more can cause over training and work counter to their goals.

So, when I see people who are at the gym every single day any they make less progress than I do, it certainly seems as though they are wasting their time. I suppose that if "working out" rather than "improving their appearance" or "increasing their athletic performance" is their hobby then they're just engaging in their hobby. I'll bet that if they knew that they could do less and make more gains, I'm sure that they would make the change.
posted by VTX at 1:45 PM on January 21, 2015


weightlifting is often counterproductive for boxing because it puts more "push" in your punch and less "snap", and it's the "snap" that does the damage.
People say that, but it's at best a gross oversimplification and at worst outright magical thinking.

First, are we talking about weightlifting (the Olympic sport) or weight lifting (the practice of lifting weights) or powerlifting (which the dude in the linked article talks about), or bodybuilding or physique bodybuilding or CrossFitty type stuff (which the FPP is about)? Each one is different and has different effects for fighting.

Lifting for size (bodybuilding) and lifting slow (powerlifting) are not great for boxing, sure, we all agree. But I remain unconvinced that speed-strength training like push presses, cleans, snatches, box jumps, and sprints are bad for boxing. And in this regard I think I'm in agreement with the author of the article you linked.

If one wants to get better at fighting, getting strong isn't the worst place to start. It's not everything, but man does it help.
posted by daveliepmann at 1:47 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


...you lift heavy things up hundreds of times a week but always put them down exactly where you found them.

If only the other guys in my gym actually did this...finding a pair of 30lb. dumbbells in my gym requires a mysterious journey not unlike hunting for truffles (minus the pig).
posted by Edgewise at 1:48 PM on January 21, 2015 [8 favorites]


Some of you judgey bastards need a nice hot cup of #swoleacceptance

It's a thing don't question me.
posted by um at 1:57 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


The thing about weight lifting, as an example, is that as long as you do it regularly and increase the weights involved, nearly any program will work.

For the first six months, absolutely. After that...you gotta work smart or you hit crazy plateaus.

There really isn't a BAD way to lift weights (or more generally strength training of any kind) as long as you're not hurting yourself, you just might be in a program that is less than optimal for you.

Unfortunately, a lot of people do stuff that will hurt them (I've seen some horrible approximations of deadlift form on a regular basis). Also crossfit. Also strength machines, for the most part. Also me, when I get too ambitious about what I can accomplish. Hell, a lot of people don't know how to do a push-up that isn't bad for their shoulders.

So working out more can cause over training and work counter to their goals.

Sure, but that's some of the sub-optimal training you were talking about. Also, keep in mind that a lot of the really hardcore guys you see lifting every day have a little pharmaceutical help. A lot of PEDs drastically speed up recovery, making overtraining less of an issue.

Not that I would call this physically or mentally healthy! I'm just saying that they are achieving their dubiously narrow goals.
posted by Edgewise at 2:00 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I remember reading something about boxing and strength training. As I recall, there are two types of muscle fibers, type I and type II. Type I muscles are for endurance and strength training doesn't really build much here unless you're doing very light weights for extremely high reps.

Type II fibers can further be broken down into two (or maybe three) sub-types A and B. Both are stronger and faster than type I fibers but have a LOT less endurance. Type IIB fibers are stronger and faster than type IIA but have even less endurance and are the type you want the most of if you make your living punching people. But, when you start strength training, you mostly build type IIB and even lose some IIA fibers. On the whole you get MUCH stronger because you have more and larger/stronger muscle fibers. Then, if you stop working out, some of your IIB cells will turn themselves into IIA cells and some will just lose strength.

So, in theory, you should stop strength training for a little while before a fight and you should lose a little bit of strength but make up for it by gaining a bunch of speed.

At least, that is how I remember it. I highly doubt I could find the article again though.
posted by VTX at 2:09 PM on January 21, 2015


It’s ‘Brad Pitt in Fight Club’. That’s the body blokes ask for.

Of course, they never ask for the Edward Norton body, not because he doesn't workout, but because other people might be confused about which film you're talking about.
posted by FJT at 2:15 PM on January 21, 2015


Training for the purpose of body aesthetics does fit very nicely with one part of what Thorstein Veblen said goes into a conspicuous leisure activity

I think you've hit on the core of the trend. It's another example of people imitating the rich. I've mentioned it before on Metafilter, but it's known that a few hundred years ago when only the rich could afford sugar, the not-so-rich would blacken their teeth in an attempt to imitate the tooth decay that only wealthy people had. When peasants worked in the field they were thin and tanned, so naturally it became the pinnacle of beauty to be pale and fat.

So yes, now one of the signs of wealth and status is muscles and conspicuous tattoos. Having the wrong tattoo in the wrong place will curb your employment prospects, but that is not an issue if you are big successful movie star or some other moneyed 'elite'. And those of us that work for a living may just find enough time to stay fit, but it takes more time than many of us have to get that absolutely buffed physique.

So then you get a lot of guys that try to emulate the rich buff guy without having the paycheck to match. They'll less demanding jobs which give them time to work out, they'll buy the right clothes and go to the right clubs, they'll even buy the right cars. But they'll live at home with their parents because that is the only way to emulate the lifestyle. There is a quite a bit of this in Sydney.
posted by kisch mokusch at 2:18 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


Training for the purpose of body aesthetics does fit very nicely with one part of what Thorstein Veblen said goes into a conspicuous leisure activity: The outcome resembles the outcome of a productive activity, but with just enough difference to make it clear the person doing the activity is so well off that they've got plenty of time to waste on non-productive activity. It's a signifier of prosperity and power.

Spot on! The "gym body" is a thing for women, too. I usually lose weight by backpacking or doing field work, so even when I'm in great shape, my body doesn't look anything like the gym body and it always makes me extra-conscious of how our beauty standards are totally disconnected from actual health and strength.
posted by dialetheia at 2:22 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


I exercise because I just want a body that will continue to work effectively for the next 300 years of my life.
posted by srboisvert at 3:03 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


Really big and strong guys are almost always the nicest, most down to earth people I've ever interacted with.

I've had the same experience; I suspect it's some combination of feeling secure and being so exhausted from lifting that you can't muster up the energy to be an asshole.

For that matter, it's even quite possible to lift weights for endurance and even weight loss. Kettle bells are commonly used for these purposes, but any compound lift performed with low weight at high repetitions can target cardiovascular health and fat burning as effectively as any kind of "cardio" workout.

Yep. I'd infinitely rather snatch 95# 30 times as fast as possible, rather than go run a couple of miles slowly. I lost weight much faster doing HIIT than I ever did with long slow cardio.
posted by culfinglin at 3:14 PM on January 21, 2015 [4 favorites]


Although the final photos make me wonder how many times he skipped leg day, why isn't he showing off ripped quads. Why aren't my quad needs being met. if i can do 120kg leg press then so can this young whippersnapper by god

I have a fair number of friends who chase this aesthetic, complete with constant facebook updates. And while they are stunningly, preternaturally photogenic, each one complains that they have lost their butts in the process.

It doesn't matter how many squats they do. It appears that you just can't have both 5% body fat and an ass. It's one or the other.
posted by kanewai at 4:16 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh god. The "V-Line" is that what they're calling it?

My ex and I always shuddered whenever we saw that shit. It's fucking gross to us.

We always called them "Ken hips" You know... Ken and Barbie.
posted by symbioid at 4:25 PM on January 21, 2015


each one complains that they have lost their butts in the process.

ok but quads are thighs not butts
posted by poffin boffin at 4:43 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Aw, you're gross to us too, symbioid.

/actually long past my v-line days
posted by Sys Rq at 4:46 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'll also just go ahead and throw it out there that literally nobody in my life has ever said "you looked better before you started working out!" to me. Before, people mostly told me they were "concerned" about my body or outright called it "gross," as in, like, to my face.

I work at a very physical job and I can't recall a time when I felt as good about the way my body looks as I do now. Nothing too special, but compared to my previously slender but doughy body, the transformation in a year has been remarkable. But I would find it very depressing to strive for this in a gym.

This is such a pitch perfect demonstration of the article's point about how men are supposed to talk about their bodies as strong and functional and only completely by coincidence more aesthetically appealing that I can't really do much else except for lol.
posted by en forme de poire at 5:00 PM on January 21, 2015 [9 favorites]


Ok, fine, I'll take the bait: I think the "after" body looks hotter. I can't help but admit I sort of envy guys who have the discipline to do that sort of routine. And it's a weird, weird admission to make since--true story--I biked 400 miles this weekend* (EVERY DAY IS LEG DAY!) but hey, I still have a belly. I've always wondered what it would be like to have a big chest, big arms, and small waist, but going to the gym and counting calories just seems so fantastically boring I can't force myself to do it regularly. So I get my outdoor time, which I love, but I still don't get the looks these guys get.

*Currently sitting with an ice pack on each thigh, because ow.
posted by psoas at 5:01 PM on January 21, 2015 [5 favorites]


it seems a little dishonest to play the Average Joe Gets Stacked game with a writer who is an occasional pro wrestler with a history of being pretty stacked

btw totally called that he used to be in much better shape; besides lighting and other photo tricks, that's another major way fitness writer types cheat the before/after comparison. Retraining [nyt] is a lot easier than training for the first time.
posted by en forme de poire at 5:11 PM on January 21, 2015 [6 favorites]


culfinglin: "Yep. I'd infinitely rather snatch 95# 30 times as fast as possible, rather than go run a couple of miles slowly. I lost weight much faster doing HIIT than I ever did with long slow cardio."

My non-authoritative impression is that HIIT and low-intensity cardio have mutually distinct benefits. HIIT will improve your perceived performance at low-intensity cardio up to a point due to increased VO2 max, but it doesn't actually improve endurance proper since with HIIT you're targeting the anaerobic system specifically.
posted by invitapriore at 6:12 PM on January 21, 2015


I'll also just go ahead and throw it out there that literally nobody in my life has ever said "you looked better before you started working out!" to me. Before, people mostly told me they were "concerned" about my body or outright called it "gross," as in, like, to my face.

These were terrible, horrible people though, right? The kind of people who kick tiny adorable kittens? And metafilter should send our strike force to punch them in the face?

Strangely, the one time that I was actually sorta-kinda thin, several people did say that they liked how I looked better before and that I should stop losing weight. I don't think I was actually that small - in fact, I know I wasn't - but I can tell from photographs that my face gets this unappealing stretched-looking quality when I get below a certain weight. Also, honestly, I think I look better a little bit bigger - I have a ridiculously large skeleton for an AFAB person and I need a little weight to cover it or I start looking like some kind of weird dystopian anime skeleton creature.


I just got back from pilates, actually. It's much more fun than you would think.
posted by Frowner at 6:24 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


Seconding P-B-Z-M: I am a mid 40's guy who spent his 20's and 30's working at a desk, eating fast food or crappy bar food constantly, drinking shitty beer, smoking and wondering why I was 270-280 pounds. Disclaimer: I'm a beefy guy from a long line of beefy guys but I look at pictures of myself at 26 and am shocked at how visibly overweight I was and how unhealthy I looked. Nice hair though.

Flash forward to today, I'm only at a desk part of the time. I work at this weird giant horizontal office where everything is far away. Print something? 50 yards away. Coffee? 70 yards away. Place we shoot video? 5 minute walk. Unless I'm tied down, I hit my 10,000 steps by lunchtime. I've dropped from a 42 waist to a 36 and I'm down to 225-230. I remember thinking "Well, I'll just get fit in my 40's", and it sounded idiotic in my head, but boy howdy am I glad to find out I love walking. So much easier on the knees.

The poster above hit it on the head, I used to never, ever get cold, now I'm cold all the time, winter sucks. Apparently I lost all buoyancy as well. I hit the lake and sink like a stone.
posted by Sphinx at 6:53 PM on January 21, 2015 [2 favorites]


This is such a pitch perfect demonstration of the article's point about how men are supposed to talk about their bodies as strong and functional and only completely by coincidence more aesthetically appealing that I can't really do much else except for lol.

Ha ha ... I can see that, and share your laugh.
posted by jayder at 7:10 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Men have gone from being unquestioned breadwinners to being somewhat less (but still) over-privileged partners in the workforce. It's not a coincidence that society is more often expecting dudes to intentionally choose a physical appearance. Let's just call it what it really is: the rise of intentional masculinity. More and more of a man's daily life is viewed as a personal opinion of how masculinity should be expressed. The time of men being expected to shuffle into one of a few templates of adulthood is coming to an end. As long we continue to examine whether and how healthy this stuff is, I don't really see a problem.
posted by IShouldBeStudyingRightNow at 7:32 PM on January 21, 2015


It's not a coincidence that society is more often expecting dudes to intentionally choose a physical appearance.

why?
posted by jayder at 7:35 PM on January 21, 2015


Because the role of men in Western culture is more fluid. We have more choices as to how and why we live our lives, and it's not immediately clear what choices are good or bad. There are less cues to make traditional decisions, and fewer penalties for ignoring conventional wisdom. Also, women have more financial control over their lives, and much more access to information about the world we live in. If women are finding it easier to choose men that they are attracted to (it would seem), then it makes sense for men to put more effort into becoming "attractive". I don't really know what straight women find physically attractive about me or any other man, though it's comforting to pretend I do.
posted by IShouldBeStudyingRightNow at 7:54 PM on January 21, 2015


I had the most beautifully sculpted arms that time I was on crutches for months.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:14 PM on January 21, 2015


"Spornosexual" has got to be the most god-awful desperate-to-be-coined portmanteau that I've ever heard. Sadly, that category is growing ever-larger in the day of the listicle.
posted by Edgewise at 10:38 PM on January 21, 2015


desperatmanteau
posted by en forme de poire at 11:50 PM on January 21, 2015 [3 favorites]


ok but quads are thighs not butts

Argh, there is a Dykes to Watch Out For where this is the punchline and I can't for the life of me find it, thanks Obama
posted by en forme de poire at 11:52 PM on January 21, 2015 [1 favorite]


Oh god. The "V-Line" is that what they're calling it?

My ex and I always shuddered whenever we saw that shit. It's fucking gross to us.


Come on dude, you're better than that. The most charitable reading I can muster at this time in the morning is a gender-swapped "did you know I actually prefer women who don't wear make-up".

You're not the only one who's doing it, just the most recent since i checked back into the thread, but whatever you're trying to say, you can say it without calling the way people look 'fucking gross'.
posted by Ned G at 12:10 AM on January 22, 2015 [6 favorites]


desperatmanteau

How wonderfully self-referential! This absolutely warrants coinage...or shall I say, cointeau.
posted by Edgewise at 12:12 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


invitapriore: My non-authoritative impression is that HIIT and low-intensity cardio have mutually distinct benefits. HIIT will improve your perceived performance at low-intensity cardio up to a point due to increased VO2 max, but it doesn't actually improve endurance proper since with HIIT you're targeting the anaerobic system specifically.

Sure; if you want to get better at running long distances, then running long distances is probably the best way to increase the endurance for that particular task, absolutely! I was talking about what I prefer to do, and what worked best for me to lose body fat. If I have to go run any further than the distance from my couch to the squat rack, my inner three-year-old throws a tantrum. This meme best describes my attitude about cardio.

symboid: My ex and I always shuddered whenever we saw that shit. It's fucking gross to us.

Seriously, is the body shaming really necessary?
posted by culfinglin at 8:44 AM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


Seriously, is the body shaming really necessary?

it's not shaming anyone for them to find out that their body is not at all appealing to another person. no one should expect every person to find their physique attractive.
posted by jayder at 10:05 AM on January 22, 2015


If you've shaped your body so that it's far from the average person's body (which is the case with extreme athletes, bodybuilders, people into body modification, etc.) some people will look at you and say "Oooh…" and some people will look at you and say "Ewww…"
posted by Lexica at 10:25 AM on January 22, 2015


"Your body is not appealing to me" is not the same as "your body is disgusting [as a body]". Admittedly, "shaming" people for having a highly socially-desirable body type isn't quite the same thing as shaming them for failing to live up to social norms, and I know only too well that it's cathartic to witness someone who gets nothing but praise for their beauty encounter, for the first time, the idea that they are not a universal attractor....but I still don't think it's very helpful.

I add that the unfortunate truth is that when you make free with the "your socially desirable body is really gross and I can say so because you are obviously widely praised for your appearance and thus spoiled" discourse (and it's a tempting discourse!!!) you always seem to encounter, for example, the tormented guy who has an eating disorder or an exercise addiction, etc, and has attained his body through basically externalizing his own fears and miseries, and so when you are all "your body is gross" he does not hear it as "ah, it confounds me that this socially undesirable person does not want me when I am so perfect" but "once again I have failed and after all my work I am still disgusting, how I hate myself, no one will ever love me".
posted by Frowner at 10:25 AM on January 22, 2015 [7 favorites]


There's a world of difference between looking at someone whose body you don't find appealing and saying, 'Hmm, not my thing,' and characterizing that body as 'shit' and 'fucking gross.' Tacking on 'to us' is awfully similar to slapping on 'Just kidding!' to an insult — it doesn't magically negate the tone. Whether the body in question conforms to social norms, is obese, gaunt, or hypertrophic is immaterial; it's still a pointlessly hurtful statement that serves only to make the person saying it feel better about themselves by putting someone else down.
posted by culfinglin at 10:43 AM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]


Oh come on, people. Cut the sophistic excuses. It's rude to call bodies like mine "fucking gross". I'm right here.

And my body—athletic, capable, and V-cut at the hips most weeks—is fucking gorgeous.
posted by daveliepmann at 10:48 AM on January 22, 2015 [4 favorites]


still a pointlessly hurtful statement that serves only to make the person saying it feel better about themselves by putting someone else down.

this is rather specious reasoning. Assuming that the speaker actually did say to his S.O. that a v-line is "fucking gross," then it is not "pointlessly hurtful"; the speaker is sharing his experience and there's always a "point" to truthful communication and sharing, namely, the exchange of information. Furthermore, all adults know that some aspects of their lives and selves will be unappealing to others; to expect someone to refrain from expressing a tart opinion about a v-line is silly and essentially is letting someone else's poorly matured sensibilities limit your freewheeling, convivial, adult conversation. I'm really astonished that someone is asserting that criticizing vainly chiseled physiques should be off limits for its potential to hurt feelings.

and you have no reason to think the v-line-eschewing tart-tongued wag is really saying it to make himself "feel better." see, you're shaming him, suggesting his body image is sub optimal.
posted by jayder at 11:07 AM on January 22, 2015


jayder: "it's not shaming anyone for them to find out that their body is not at all appealing to another person."

seriously? did you think this through or did you just want to say "it should not be shaming anyone for them to ..... "?
posted by TheLittlePrince at 11:28 AM on January 22, 2015


Speaking as someone whose body is fucking gross, I Want To Call Other People's Bodies Fucking Gross Without Their Taking Offense Hill seems like a dumb one to die on, but that's just me.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:29 AM on January 22, 2015 [8 favorites]


to expect someone to refrain from expressing a tart opinion about a v-line is silly

It's "silly" to expect people to not be gratuitously rude in a public discussion?
posted by psoas at 11:32 AM on January 22, 2015 [4 favorites]


Honestly, I would like it if I never had to hear bullshit "that body is so gross" stuff ever again.

I would love it in particular, in fact, if I didn't have to hear it about old people, the disabled, and significantly fat people, because people I love fall into all those categories and hearing some little twit call some old guy at the beach "gross" because he has wrinkles and veins really makes me want to kill. ("You don't want to look at gross bodies? I know how to solve the whole problem of 'looking' for you!!!! And you'll never have to get old and gross, either!!!!")

However, I would also love it if people could just fucking excise the petty, judgmental bullshit, the idea that it's actually important that we all keep up running commentary on others' bodies all the time. It's mean and petty and toxic, and it takes up headspace that you could use better for virtually anything else, and it reinforces the idea that you and your highly idiosyncratic, time-bound ideas have some kind of foundational value.

Seriously, the world is a better place when you don't work really hard on constructing your own subjectivity as someone who is constantly judging and ranking and being snippy. Naturally, those are all hurtful and unpleasant ways of being in the world, but they are also excellent ways to build walls in your head and limit what you notice, how you think and the experiences you're able to have.
posted by Frowner at 11:40 AM on January 22, 2015 [10 favorites]


culfinglin: "This meme best describes my attitude about cardio."

For sure, and I find it to be pretty tedious myself, but I guess the part that I didn't include that I've also seen around is that doing exclusively HIIT taxes your adrenal system and can lead to overtraining and injury. I didn't mention it because I don't know really know enough about the actual physiological principles involved and it seems like the sort of thing that would be highly variable depending on the person in question. If it's never been an issue for you, then awesome!
posted by invitapriore at 11:46 AM on January 22, 2015 [1 favorite]


Saying "your body is gross" comes under the heading of "your favourite band sucks."

What, exactly, are you contributing to the world by saying this? Just say "thanks, but no thanks" if someone who doesn't have your preferred bodily configuration expresses interest. Inflicting your negative opinion at any other time is absolutely nothing more than wanting someone else to feel bad for your benefit.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:28 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


I don't want to look moderately good, I want to look like the Farnese Hercules.

I think I always aimed more for the Drunken Hercules; naked, urinating in public, with a big stick over one shoulder. ;-)
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 2:03 PM on January 22, 2015 [3 favorites]


I see some beautiful physiques on the street in Nigeria, from people who work very hard carrying cement all day or farming or digging. Muscly people without an ounce of bodyfat. Which goes against the accepted gym wisdom in the West since they'll be eating diets that are mostly carbs and oil.

A friend in UK did the gym thing for a year for a project. He looked a bit like this afterwards, but with hands. I think it was what he was aiming for. Also I think it felt more to him like a costume than one's body usually does. As he is physically active and eats modestly it took about a year/year and a half to lose the core strength and chiselled-ness. Maintenance requires so much investment of both time and money that if it is neither your job nor your dear hobby there's no way to keep it going unless your lifestyle involves hard manual labour.

Of work available in the West I think Circus, even more than gymnastics, produces male bodies conforming to this aesthetic while also being superbly strong.

posted by glasseyes at 3:17 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


Of work available in the West I think Circus, even more than gymnastics, produces male bodies conforming to this aesthetic while also being superbly strong.

That's brilliant! Within five years I hope to see a circus exercise craze sweeping the nation. It couldn't possibly be any more ridiculous than all the other stuff we've tried.

The other exercise craze that I'd like to see get popular, especially given the swole renaissance, is the Shovelglove. I've wanted to make one for years but have always lived in small apartments, so I've been too afraid of smashing something with it. I still think it's a cool idea, though.
posted by dialetheia at 3:33 PM on January 22, 2015


seriously? did you think this through or did you just want to say "it should not be shaming anyone for them to ..... "?

No, expressing an opinion is not "shaming" someone. If they feel ashamed that not everyone in the world likes their body type, they should either deal with it or seek counseling. People having and expressing opinions, some of which take a dim view of your body type, your hobbies, your lifestyle, your morals, your political views, etc., is not shaming you ... you are living among people who think things and express them and it's up to you to deal with the fact that everyone doesn't think you're special, great and beautiful.
posted by jayder at 3:45 PM on January 22, 2015


Expressing an opinion anytime other than when someone whose body you don't want to get naked with is nothing but shaming and making them feel bad.

Please, explain to the group how "ewww that body is gross" is benefiting anyone but you.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 4:41 PM on January 22, 2015 [2 favorites]


It would be neat to see this much push-back on body shaming the next time someone on a thread about fat people on mefi commits the horrifying thoughtcrime of suggesting that they're comfortable in their plus-sized figure, but I suspect that the health brigade won't let that happen.
posted by sonascope at 5:00 AM on January 23, 2015


Ya know,I'm went to my hot yoga class yesterday and snuck of glimpse at the leanest, low-body-fat mothertrucker in the class. And I thought of this thread and realized maybe I don't need to work that hard. Hip bones are for locomotion, not display.

I'm on track to lose the love handles peeking over my belt. Beyond that, fuck it. That's a level of looks-good-nekkid I can achieve and maintain w/ proper eating habits and physical activity.

Honestly, I'm more focussed on working up to doing actual pull-ups. Get that level of strong, and whatever I look like will look like a guy strong enough to do pull-ups, and that'll probably look pretty ok nekkid.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 8:14 AM on January 23, 2015 [1 favorite]


100% fair play to Sonascope and that's something that would be great to see... I wonder if it's more, less or just equally depressing that even in a thread about idealised body types it seems really hard for anyone to write a comment without judging vocally and negatively?
posted by ominous_paws at 8:43 AM on January 23, 2015


it's known that a few hundred years ago when only the rich could afford sugar, the not-so-rich would blacken their teeth in an attempt to imitate the tooth decay that only wealthy people had

This seems pretty improbable to me. Tooth blackening does exist in some cultures, but I'm not aware that it's connected to tooth decay. It's not as if you can't happily rot your teeth with any carbohydrate.
posted by howfar at 2:52 PM on January 23, 2015


You know, if I had a good v-cut, anyone who wants to call it gross would be welcome to. I would generally chalk this sort of thing up to envy, or at least insecurity. Even if it isn't, I would find it extremely easy to dismiss such haters given the fact that they're clearly in the minority. You can't call it body-shaming if there's no chance of causing actual shame.

That doesn't mean that it's not a rude and thoughtless thing to say.
posted by Edgewise at 1:23 PM on January 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


This is such a pitch perfect demonstration of the article's point about how men are supposed to talk about their bodies as strong and functional and only completely by coincidence more aesthetically appealing that I can't really do much else except for lol.

I know that this thread is pretty dead and I don't think anyone will ever actually read this but I've been thinking about this for the past few days.

It's like there is a group of people who workout in order to improve the function of their bodies (lift more, longer, run farther, faster, be able to do their physically demanding job easier, etc.). Bodies that look more like the popular image of attractive is a side effect (though often a quite welcome one).

There is another group of people who work to attain the appearance of function. Any increase in function is just a side effect.

I feel the same disdain for that as I do for the kid who puts a loud muffler on his Civic to make it sound loud and aggressive. It's just to make it sound high performance. It might add some horsepower but nowhere near as much as we're supposed to think it has. Furthermore, if he'd really wanted to add performance, there are more efficient ways to do it but they might not be as loud about it.
posted by VTX at 3:55 PM on January 27, 2015 [1 favorite]


dialetheia: "That's brilliant! Within five years I hope to see a circus exercise craze sweeping the nation. "

As a matter of fact, five cities in the US (including mine) have a trapeze school.
posted by exogenous at 7:14 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Hey VTX, it's still showing up on recent activity!

The point that you mention is kinda interesting, and something I've been thinking about recently too, but I'm not sure it's so clear cut when there's a cultural/social aspect, or whether framing it in terms of "appearance of function" is really representative of what's going on.

I haven't been going to the gym for ages, but when I started it was with the intention of changing my appearance to better match a culturally determined aesthetic. The reason that this aesthetic evolved was based on physical prowess, but I think it's pretty detached from that now. I also think that the function thing is often a red herring - if you're a professional athlete or your requires a certain level of physical performance then this can be disregarded, but otherwise, training to run X steps in Y minutes or lift Z kilos above your head is equally arbitrary as training to increase your muscle mass by a given percentage. I think though, that a lot of people claim they're working out for improved function, as it seems less vain, though actually the 'side effect' of physical fitness is the real motivation.

Also, people do lots of things to make themselves look better, which take time and effort, and have a basis in deception, but which they are now pretty much divorced from. All of the examples I can think of involve women, as I suppose that traditionally they've had to bear a greater burden of societal expectations when it comes to appearance. But anyway, pick something like wearing make up: traditionally, having smooth white skin indicated you could afford not to work out in the sun, and that you hadn't had smallpox or otherwise disfiguring diseases as a child. Now though, make up has been subsumed into a cultural (or perhaps subcultural) expectation of female beauty, and if you see a girl putting on foundation, it would be pretty weird to accuse her of attaining the appearance of no-work-in-the-fields-and-no-smallpox, without putting the hard work in.

I think its also ok to have negative views of subcultures, and their affectations; people do these things to define themselves as part of an out-group, and if you're not into that out-group, that's fine. Your souped up civic example is a good example: I'm not that into cars, and I think it's crass to unnecessarily disturb other people. However, I don't think that the kids putting the loud mufflers on cars are doing it for the extra horsepower, I think they're doing it because to them, cars with loud mufflers are cool.
posted by Ned G at 9:22 AM on January 28, 2015 [1 favorite]


Like everything else, the truth is probably more nuanced than we're presenting here.

I'm mean, I'm not going to say that I started lifting weights as my chosen form of exercise to prevent myself from become a feeble old man and no other reasons. I also want to build strength so that when I use that strength, it takes less effort (like helping someone move), it's just generally good for my health in a lot of ways, and a few other benefits. Having a better looking body is certainly up there with all the other reasons. If the way that I worked out got me all the other benefits but my body didn't change shape, I don't think it would change my decision to keep doing it but it might.

The difference is that, if I wanted to workout to improve my appearance and nothing else, I'd be following a different program that wouldn't be as effective at building functional strength and is only marginally more effective at improving appearance.

If you can workout for strength and get the body you want anyways, it seems like, at least from my perspective, that a person could just workout to build strength and save themselves some time and effort.

If I try to think about it objectively, of course there's nothing wrong with body building. It's just that I think it's a silly choice. It doesn't help that about the only person I know that lifts for body building instead of function is my cousin who is a certified horrible person.
posted by VTX at 3:18 PM on January 28, 2015


I am kind of inclined to reject this distinction entirely. Being aesthetically pleasing to yourself, society, or the people you are specifically interested in attracting is also a "function." I just think it's a function men are not supposed to admit to caring about. Things that are ornamental, embellished, alluring, etc., tend to be associated with femininity, not masculinity.

I think there's definitely an argument to be made that a narrow emphasis on making bodies fit a particular socially-sanctioned model, whether that's the Crossfit body or the Starting Strength body or the runway model, is more harmful than an emphasis on health. Even very fit bodies vary a lot in how well they conform to the aesthetic standards you see in media, etc. But that doesn't mean that individual people working towards primarily aesthetic goals are frivolous or silly for doing so.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:28 PM on January 28, 2015 [4 favorites]


I am kind of inclined to reject this distinction entirely. Being aesthetically pleasing to yourself, society, or the people you are specifically interested in attracting is also a "function." I just think it's a function men are not supposed to admit to caring about. Things that are ornamental, embellished, alluring, etc., tend to be associated with femininity, not masculinity.

This is very true. From one side, we see a rejection of male beauty of any kind, be it through comportment or getting ripped; i.e. the "metrosexual". From the other side, we see a very academic rejection of physical improvement as bourgeois narcissism. Ultimately, both sides are at least partly threatened by a bunch of stereotypes they carry around with them: effete urbanites, preening bullies, etc.

Physical attractiveness is an asset in this world, more so than physical strength or stamina. That's probably true in all cultures, according to their respective standards, except when you're talking about manual laborers or athletes. And attractiveness is probably very important in their lives, too. So it's probably more "functional" than any aspect of physical performance except actual health.

That said, it's obviously shallow to over-prioritize one's appearance. It's not healthy for men or women. To suggest, however, that it shouldn't be a priority at all is an overreaction in the opposite direction. It's OK to not a gym rat. All I'm saying is that there's no reason to hate on people who put effort into their appearance, although there is reason to pity those who prioritize beauty over all else.

I think there's definitely an argument to be made that a narrow emphasis on making bodies fit a particular socially-sanctioned model, whether that's the Crossfit body or the Starting Strength body or the runway model, is more harmful than an emphasis on health.

I agree with this, as well, but I'd add doing one of these programs and not emphasizing health is a lot better than doing no such program and also not emphasizing your health. Which is probably the most common scenario.
posted by Edgewise at 7:23 PM on January 29, 2015 [1 favorite]


I think that last bit is reasonable but just to clarify I also meant that you don't necessarily get, e.g., "The Crossfit Body" as it exists in pop culture just from actually doing Crossfit.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:07 AM on January 30, 2015 [2 favorites]


I've come to realize that for me as a bartender, looking good is at least 25% of my job or more. I'm a professional who works in a private club. I know my cocktails, know my way around bottles & kegs of beer, can talk like a non-idiot about the house wines (and can find one of the somms toot sweet), full restaurant menu at the bar, who wants to talk whisk(e)y, keep my tags and my drawer straight, all of it.

But I'm pretty confident that any bar that had the option to hire the Pirate on the right would choose him over the Pirate on the left, everything else being equal. Now I'm not bartending with my shirt off, but let's be honest: conventionally aesthetically pleasing people get further. And I'm in an industry where appearances matter. Maybe it';s not right, but it's what is.

So while I'm working out to feel healthy, strong, & agile, as well as to look good nekkid as I get older, I definitely have my eye on the day I can trade my size Large work shirts for Mediums. Or maybe I bite the bullet, have my larges taken in by a tailor & hope we don't get issued a different style shirt any time soon.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 12:42 PM on January 31, 2015


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