Year of the Goat / Sheep / Ram
February 19, 2015 12:56 PM Subscribe
Is it the Year of the Sheep, the Goat, or the Ram? February 19 marks the Chinese New Year (and simultaneously Lunar New Year holidays in Vietnam, Tibet, Mongolia and Korea). As many people know, there is a 12-year animal zodiac cycle in the traditional Chinese calendar: the Year of the Horse has just ended. But what exactly is the animal sign for the year that is just now beginning?
In Chinese, this is the year of the 羊 yáng, which is an all-purpose term for ruminants, generally with horns. Goat is translated as 山羊 "mountain yáng" and sheep as 綿羊 "cotton yáng" (and gazelles/antelopes are yet another type of 羊). However, with the holiday now being widely celebrated/commemorated in the Western world and English not having have a common word in use that means "goat or sheep" -- "Year of the Horned Ruminant" being unlikely to catch on -- usage of "Year of the Goat" or "Year of the Sheep" or "Year of the Ram" varies.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post finds varying choices all across Hong Kong, and quotes a professor who argues that "goat" is likely the original meaning.
Language Log's discussion of the situation is written by prominent Sinologist Victor Mair. An exploration of this issue in Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian and Vietnamese finds that unlike Chinese, the latter three languages do not have a catch-all term for "goat/sheep" so they have unequivocally settled on a particular animal: sheep in Japan and Mongolia, goat in Vietnam.
The version of Google's Lunar New Year Doodle in South Korea, Taiwan and most Western countries shows sheep, while the version of the Doodle for Vietnam shows a goat.
In Chinese, this is the year of the 羊 yáng, which is an all-purpose term for ruminants, generally with horns. Goat is translated as 山羊 "mountain yáng" and sheep as 綿羊 "cotton yáng" (and gazelles/antelopes are yet another type of 羊). However, with the holiday now being widely celebrated/commemorated in the Western world and English not having have a common word in use that means "goat or sheep" -- "Year of the Horned Ruminant" being unlikely to catch on -- usage of "Year of the Goat" or "Year of the Sheep" or "Year of the Ram" varies.
Hong Kong's South China Morning Post finds varying choices all across Hong Kong, and quotes a professor who argues that "goat" is likely the original meaning.
Language Log's discussion of the situation is written by prominent Sinologist Victor Mair. An exploration of this issue in Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian and Vietnamese finds that unlike Chinese, the latter three languages do not have a catch-all term for "goat/sheep" so they have unequivocally settled on a particular animal: sheep in Japan and Mongolia, goat in Vietnam.
The version of Google's Lunar New Year Doodle in South Korea, Taiwan and most Western countries shows sheep, while the version of the Doodle for Vietnam shows a goat.
The Year Of The Caprinae!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:01 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:01 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
One of the things I remember most from my undergrad faunal archaeology class is that it's pretty much impossible to distinguish goat and sheep bones in an archaeological assemblage, so more often than not they're just all lumped together as "sheepgoat". So... science?
posted by The Michael The at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by The Michael The at 1:04 PM on February 19, 2015 [6 favorites]
I've always been partial to the Ram, seeing as it's my sign. But I think I'll switch to Horned Ruminant from now on.
posted by zinon at 1:07 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by zinon at 1:07 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I was going to refer to my favourite animal, the sheepgoat, as well :D
posted by you must supply a verb at 1:08 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by you must supply a verb at 1:08 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Getting into the spirit of the new year, Hong Kong leader Leung "the Wolf" Chun-ying expressed his hope "that all people in Hong Kong will take inspiration from the sheep's character and pull together in an accommodating manner to work for Hong Kong's future." Because who ever heard of sheep protesting for democratic rights?
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:13 PM on February 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:13 PM on February 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
The thing that always bugs me about those Chinese Zodiac placemats, is that they give lists of years that belong to particular animals, but they never say anything about Chinese New Year falling in February.
It's something have a ritual argument about while you wait for the food. Is the person born in January a Horse or a Horned Ruminant?
The FPP sides with me on this. I feel vindicated!
posted by elizilla at 1:31 PM on February 19, 2015
It's something have a ritual argument about while you wait for the food. Is the person born in January a Horse or a Horned Ruminant?
The FPP sides with me on this. I feel vindicated!
posted by elizilla at 1:31 PM on February 19, 2015
In Pismo Beach, it's the Year of the Surfing Goats.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:33 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:33 PM on February 19, 2015
In Pismo Beach, it's the Year of the Surfing Goats.
posted by tommasz at 1:41 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
A well a everybody's heard about the goatI'm sorry, but I don't hear a hit with this one.
G-g-g goat, goat, goat, g-goat's the word
posted by tommasz at 1:41 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Let's just ruminate on this for a while.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:45 PM on February 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:45 PM on February 19, 2015 [4 favorites]
This song has canonicalized "goat" for me (and I can now recall the entire list effortlessly). I hope that settles it for everyone.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:50 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by Wolfdog at 1:50 PM on February 19, 2015
elizilla: Is the person born in January a Horse or a Horned Ruminant
AFAIK, a Horse - and not just January but also most of February. As a January baby myself this was always a little peeve of mine with the placemats that list only the years for the zodiac.
posted by achrise at 1:51 PM on February 19, 2015
AFAIK, a Horse - and not just January but also most of February. As a January baby myself this was always a little peeve of mine with the placemats that list only the years for the zodiac.
posted by achrise at 1:51 PM on February 19, 2015
"Year of the Horned Ruminant" being unlikely to catch on
I dunno -- if I were looking for a MeFi sockpuppet account name, that would be tempting.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:52 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I dunno -- if I were looking for a MeFi sockpuppet account name, that would be tempting.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:52 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also regarding horned ruminants, I saw "my baba sent me this on whatsapp" yesterday, and I keep going back for instant laughter and awwwwwing.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:53 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:53 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
for years i thot i was a rooster, but i am not, being born in jan, i am a monkey. also, i liked horn ruminant better
posted by PinkMoose at 1:59 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by PinkMoose at 1:59 PM on February 19, 2015
for years i thot i was a rooster, but eventually therapy helped
posted by Wolfdog at 2:01 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Wolfdog at 2:01 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I see the Google did not give into the temptation of doing a sheep on fire.
posted by tavella at 2:05 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by tavella at 2:05 PM on February 19, 2015
Oops, never mind, it's the year of the Wooden Sheep, not the Fire Sheep. Fire sheep are my birth year.
posted by tavella at 2:09 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 2:09 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I cook a lot of lamb and live in NYC Chinatown and it is really hard to find lamb meat in the groceries around here. They do sell goat meat, which I have mistakenly bought from the butcher's because they call it 羊肉, the same thing as lamb meat.
posted by pravit at 2:46 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by pravit at 2:46 PM on February 19, 2015
achrise AFAIK, a Horse - and not just January but also most of February.
Mostly correct; what Gregorian year you were born in will affect which side of Chinese/Lunar new year your birth falls.
The Lunar new year varies against the Gregorian month system. Some years, Lunar new year can be as early as mid-January, other years as late as late-February. So you'd be zodiac of whichever side of Lunar new year you were born on, the year you were born in.
posted by porpoise at 3:07 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mostly correct; what Gregorian year you were born in will affect which side of Chinese/Lunar new year your birth falls.
The Lunar new year varies against the Gregorian month system. Some years, Lunar new year can be as early as mid-January, other years as late as late-February. So you'd be zodiac of whichever side of Lunar new year you were born on, the year you were born in.
posted by porpoise at 3:07 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
Considering the standard associations between dogs and sheep in Western Civ, I thought I might have a pretty good dog year. Not so much, apparently.
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:08 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by halfbuckaroo at 3:08 PM on February 19, 2015
oh now i dont know what i am, this is all very upsetting.
posted by PinkMoose at 3:11 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by PinkMoose at 3:11 PM on February 19, 2015
YES I AM A MONKEY
posted by PinkMoose at 3:25 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by PinkMoose at 3:25 PM on February 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I answered this right on quiz night thanks to our favorite goat, now covered with flowers in Zhuhai.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:40 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:40 PM on February 19, 2015
Pshaw, it is clearly the Year of the Hiro Sohma, in all his woolly, grumpy glory! Last year was of course the Year of the Horse (Rin) and 2016 is the Year of the Monkey (Ritsu).
(psst, go read Fruits Basket)
posted by nicebookrack at 4:01 PM on February 19, 2015
(psst, go read Fruits Basket)
posted by nicebookrack at 4:01 PM on February 19, 2015
yea I shoulda said ... and most of February this year.
posted by achrise at 4:07 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by achrise at 4:07 PM on February 19, 2015
How about Year of the Ruminants that Taste Good?
Oh yeah, that's pretty much all of them, right?
posted by happyroach at 6:15 PM on February 19, 2015
Oh yeah, that's pretty much all of them, right?
posted by happyroach at 6:15 PM on February 19, 2015
The Year of Things Best Served Curried
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:24 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:24 PM on February 19, 2015
Darn, I thought being born in the year of the Dragon sounded cool. Year of the rabbit, not so much.
posted by leahwrenn at 6:27 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by leahwrenn at 6:27 PM on February 19, 2015
It isn't just goat. IIRC It is the year of the green wood goat.
posted by humanfont at 6:37 PM on February 19, 2015
posted by humanfont at 6:37 PM on February 19, 2015
How about Year of the Ruminants that Taste Good?
Oh yeah, that's pretty much all of them, right?
I immediately wondered whether giraffe was tasty. The answer appears to be yes.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2015
Oh yeah, that's pretty much all of them, right?
I immediately wondered whether giraffe was tasty. The answer appears to be yes.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2015
It does seem like something of a linguistic deficiency that we don't have a word for yang. Seems like a useful category.
posted by bracems at 8:40 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by bracems at 8:40 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
This answers a question for me, which I was too lazy to Google. We were discussing the Chinese new year in German class, and the two students from China called it the year of the sheep. I had heard that it was the year of the goat, but didn't want to contradict them on their own language and culture.
I was left wondering, though, as the discussion moved on, whether 'sheep' was a mistranslation, whether 'goat' was, or whether I was maybe remembering the year wrong entirely. 羊 makes the whole thing make a lot more sense.
posted by frimble at 9:53 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was left wondering, though, as the discussion moved on, whether 'sheep' was a mistranslation, whether 'goat' was, or whether I was maybe remembering the year wrong entirely. 羊 makes the whole thing make a lot more sense.
posted by frimble at 9:53 PM on February 19, 2015 [1 favorite]
The Gävlebocken actually survived Yule season in Sweden this year, and he was disassembled and sent to China to celebrate the Year of the 羊. Here he is all decked out and handsome, and here he has some admirers.
posted by hippybear at 12:22 AM on February 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 12:22 AM on February 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
hippybear: What is the world coming to? The Gävelbocken is supposed to be burned by vandals! The world is coming to an end!
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 1:18 AM on February 20, 2015
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 1:18 AM on February 20, 2015
It's the Year Of The Goat! Let it ride! It will probably be burned this coming Yule season and you will suddenly feel balance restored to the force!
(Personally, I always root for the poor flammable goat to survive.)
posted by hippybear at 1:28 AM on February 20, 2015
(Personally, I always root for the poor flammable goat to survive.)
posted by hippybear at 1:28 AM on February 20, 2015
Ah, this is my year. Fourth time around, surely this time I'll get it right?
posted by h00py at 6:22 AM on February 20, 2015
posted by h00py at 6:22 AM on February 20, 2015
Hey buddy...wanna buy an ungulate horned ruminant
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:33 AM on February 20, 2015
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:33 AM on February 20, 2015
There's other words too in Chinese that are sort of category words which don't have an easy English translation. First one that jumps to mind is luo buo (萝卜), which can mean carrot or turnip or radish.
posted by kmz at 8:12 AM on February 20, 2015
posted by kmz at 8:12 AM on February 20, 2015
The Banff park rangers would like to point out that plenty of westerners have difficulty telling apart Sheep and Goats.
posted by Lexica at 10:33 AM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Lexica at 10:33 AM on February 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's other words too in Chinese that are sort of category words which don't have an easy English translation. First one that jumps to mind is luo buo (萝卜), which can mean carrot or turnip or radish.
Root vegetable? Specifically, taproots.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:02 AM on February 20, 2015
Root vegetable? Specifically, taproots.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:02 AM on February 20, 2015
In Japan, it's the sheep. Something I've noticed living here, and having lived in China, the animals for the zodiac in Japan are usually the milder, and yes, cuter versions (though this goes back a ways before the whole "cute" Japan gimmick, I'm guessing). In China, it seemed the more, uh, virile, masculine, or at least powerful animal was used: goat vs. sheep, ox vs. cow, rat vs. mouse, rooster vs. chicken, and so on.
No idea why, just thought it was interesting.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:42 AM on February 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
No idea why, just thought it was interesting.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:42 AM on February 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
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