The Deacon Effect.

February 12, 2002 10:59 PM

The Deacon Effect. "Two ladies will be tested. The two ladies chosen were "Sarah" and "Katie". Katie is the typical nice girl, on one hand she will probably put up with a ton of shit, on the other she probably has idealistic image of how men are supposed to act, think: Gentlemen. Sarah is your typical raving bitch, she won't put up with any sh*t, on the other hand her image of men is less idealistic and more "bad boy", think: Biker Trash. Both ladies will experience "Sabastian the ass..."

Two ladies. One man. Does being a jerk actually get you chicks, or does nice guys finish last? Sabastian finds out, in the name of science.
posted by jcterminal (38 comments total)

OMG.. This article made me laugh out loud for the entire lenght of the article. Un-f'ing real how funny this was. Mwahhaa.. It's all about how he makes the first girl get off his couch to eat snacks. *BITCH* hahaha..
posted by Dav0xor at 11:48 PM on February 12, 2002

of course, i think all this is made up, but it's late and i'm bored enough before sleep... katie's not a "nice girl" so much as she's gullible for putting up with sabastian's shit. (sorry, but it's the truth.) nice guys don't finish last, i don't think. they're attracted to nice girls, and -- both of them being nice -- there is a low turnover rate. (no one really cheats on the other; no one really is an asshole to the other.) the chances of meeting someone both available and interested in you is pretty small, but i suppose the rewards are greater.
posted by moz at 11:59 PM on February 12, 2002

Oh man. I wanted to hate this story, I really did. But it's just so funny, and in many ways so true. Though it could easily be completely made up.

If it really happened, I think the only real reason he got anywhere with either woman was his strong approach. If this proves anything it's that even if you're a complete asshole, a confident asshole is more fun to talk to than a silent, meek gentleman. I spent many a college party saying nothing to women and sitting alone while drunk idiots with no inhibitions went home with women. Oh well.
posted by mathowie at 12:01 AM on February 13, 2002

Funny. Fake as hell, but funny.
posted by tiger yang at 12:02 AM on February 13, 2002

I read every made-up story at that site and laughed my guts out! My #2 best friend since college, Frank (Mr. Wonderful) is the Supreme Asshole of all time and complete rudeness has always been his MO; and although I have seen it work hundreds of times, I'm constantly amazed.
posted by Mack Twain at 12:21 AM on February 13, 2002

Girls don't like nice guys. They're boring, predictable, and just plain weird. They prefer a man who is confident, funny, and isn't afraid to get his way. I feel sorry for the fools who haven't understood this yet, or are in denial of the facts. Nice guys finish last? Absolutely.
posted by Mach3avelli at 12:31 AM on February 13, 2002

Okay, that guy's a total fucking asshole, and all you fuckers need to grow up. Immature little juvenile swine.
posted by acridrabbit at 12:48 AM on February 13, 2002

Quit sugar-coating your words acidrabbit, tell us how you really feel.
posted by mathowie at 12:57 AM on February 13, 2002

Nice guys finish last? Absolutely.

Yes, but they won't burn for all eternity.

Immature little juvenile swine.

Yes the sentiment he expresses is.
posted by j.edwards at 1:01 AM on February 13, 2002

Confidence is huge. You can be nice AND confident, but that's a rare combination, mostly because to be very outgoing and handle rejection well, it helps to have an over inflated opinion of ones self. It's much easier to be an outgoing asshole, like Mach3avelli. Just kidding. Sorta.

As people have already said, the guys I know who are the best with women aren't the best looking (although that really helps, too), but the most outgoing and confident in themselves. The guy I knew who was the best with women of anyone I ever met was a short fat guy. I'm glad I met him when I was still young, cause it was a valuable lesson. That's right, I put on 50 pounds and trolled for ladies.
posted by Doug at 1:04 AM on February 13, 2002

If we suppose that the stories are true, this guy would also have to be reasonably attractive and well-dressed, or at least dressed appropriate for the situation. Some guys I know could get away with the stuff in that first story, and other guys, even with the confidence, would still fail. Also, he's not really taking into consideration the idea that some of those girls might just want sex, in which case they may be willing to put up with his shit for a short time.

But yes, it is funny.
posted by bingo at 1:15 AM on February 13, 2002

And then there were party pics.
posted by sans at 3:16 AM on February 13, 2002

If this proves anything it's that even if you're a complete asshole, a confident asshole is more fun to talk to than a silent, meek gentleman. I spent many a college party saying nothing to women and sitting alone while drunk idiots with no inhibitions went home with women. Oh well.

I think what that proves is nothing+zero response=par for the course.

Ok he is pretty average looking so it's not his looks. But...perhaps this guy wasn't playing a jerk. Perhaps he really is one. Perhaps you really do have to be one to do something like this? So, perhaps he's a jerk thinking he's a nice guy imitating a jerk and the act of thinking that he's playing a role has given him that aura of confidence you usually only get from a toothpaste commercial?

Just a thought.

Watching a movie at home is exactly what you should not do on a first date. First off the chick is in a strange place with someone she barely knows. Katie still had no way of knowing if I was some weird rapist guy or someting. Perfect.

Not knowing if this is stupid or merely a lame joke, I still have to ask, why is wanting to make somebody that uncomfortable funny? Anyone?
posted by lucien at 4:39 AM on February 13, 2002

Because, if she was that uncomfortable, she'd leave. Her car is right outside. So, is she or isn't she?

It's funny because it exposes the hypocrisy of the whole scene. Sort of "The Secret Life of Single Women" that seems a lot more real than "Sex in the City"
posted by Irontom at 4:56 AM on February 13, 2002

Okay, that guy's a total fucking asshole, and all you fuckers need to grow up. Immature little juvenile swine.

acridrabbit, why don't you ever call me anymore?
posted by dhartung at 4:58 AM on February 13, 2002

Nice guys are the ones women bitch to about the jerks they're sleeping with. Didn't anyone else RTFM!?
posted by Dark Messiah at 5:02 AM on February 13, 2002

Oh no. Is this datingfilter?
posted by raysmj at 5:25 AM on February 13, 2002

I found this article and the rest of the "dating advice" section about as charming as I found In The Company of Men, which is to say, not at all. Why is it funny to be deliberately cruel to anyone? Where's the value in finding out that, gee, oh my gosh, some sad and insecure people will put up with monstrous behavior, just so they aren't alone? Yeah, sometimes nice guys finish last, but let's see: a nice guy feels bad because he got smacked down, so he takes it out on somebody who had nothing to do with the original smacking. Which leaves you with a new "bitch" on the market who's learned her lesson about guys, and smacks the next nice guy down. Excellent way to shit where you live, bravo.

It's a shame you didn't link to the splash page of the article, the subtitle pretty much says it all- "Deacon Effect: I hit her cause I love her..."
posted by headspace at 6:02 AM on February 13, 2002

If this proves anything it's that even if you're a complete asshole, a confident asshole is more fun to talk to than a silent, meek gentleman.

patently not true, my dear. fun perhaps in the this-might-be-amusing-for-the-next-five-minutes sense, but most [remotely intelligent] women don't want to spend any real time with those people. "confident asshole" describes a good 75% of the guys I went to college with. they were fun to flirt with at college parties, but at the end of the day, it was hard to take them seriously.

article was damn funny, by the way.
posted by lizs at 6:30 AM on February 13, 2002

Katie: I didn't say you had to leave.
Sabastian: Carry my bag for me.

I am rolling. This is hysterical.
posted by adampsyche at 6:37 AM on February 13, 2002

To set the mood, I shit you not; I threw in a porno and turned it up loud.

Another gem.
posted by adampsyche at 6:39 AM on February 13, 2002

Because, if she was that uncomfortable, she'd leave. Her car is right outside. So, is she or isn't she?

She isn't saying she is. Actually, we hear very little about the women's inner world or her possible feelings at all (unless it makes her appear more ridiculous) at all. He is saying that he is trying to make her feel this way (either in reality or in a work of fiction) And taking great delight in the idea.

It's funny because it exposes the hypocrisy of the whole scene.

Sorry, you lost me there. Who do you think is being hypocritical? The whole "scene?" Ok, You mean the dating scene? Well, like everything in life, people make up the "scene" and some people are hypocritical and some people aren't. But how can a "scene" be hypocritical? And how can the women, who we hear so little about when it doesn't suit the hilarious story line, be hypocritical? If you talked to them, got to know them, how do you know they wouldn't admit to having low self-esteem, and falling for the wrong people?
posted by lucien at 7:32 AM on February 13, 2002

Wait a sec; there's a "scene"? Hmm. I suppose that would explain a lot...
posted by aramaic at 7:39 AM on February 13, 2002

It's funny because it exposes the hypocrisy of the whole scene.

You wanna talk about hypocrisy? Sabastian picks out "Sarah" for half of the experiment, because she is a raving bitch-- what evidence is presented that she's a bitch? Her appearance. She doesn't even have to DO anything to this supposedly "nice guy" except exist. Same thing for "Katie," she's nice because he's decided she's nice based on her appearance.

Sabastian was a dick before he even started this experiment; fictional account or no (I don't think it likely that Katie and Sarah stuck around to take glamor and web shots for him,) this piece tells us a hell of a lot more about the asshole at the keyboard than it does about the dating scene. Hopefully he'll hook up with a nice Rules girl, make each other miserable for the rest of their lives, and save the rest of the world from suffering them.
posted by headspace at 7:48 AM on February 13, 2002

Surely it's not fake! It has to be real, like Santa!

Anyway, very funny, although it's completely untrue. I'm a nice guy and... Oh. Never mind. (Repeat "fuck" until page is full.)
posted by gleemax at 7:58 AM on February 13, 2002

Terrible, but laugh-out-loud funny.

My favorite:

Making her buy her own food at TACO BELL, then coming back to his house to watch a movie, and she has to sit on the floor.
posted by gramcracker at 8:01 AM on February 13, 2002

Headspace, according to irontrom's logic it's perfectly ok to find the splash page funny. After all, how do we know that a woman being hit doesn't enjoy it? Women in abusive situations often hang around don't they? if she was that uncomfortable, she'd leave. So, is she or isn't she? It's ok to take advantage of other's people's vulnerability, so long as they allow us to do that, it's ok.

I know, let's subject two women to that sort of abusive behaviour and put the results up on the net in such a way as to make them seem totally dehumanised. Then everyone who's every felt scorned or ignored by the opposite sex (both sexes could claim this equally, but you wouldn't know it from this thread) can have some chuckles over it, perhaps incorporate the wisdom into their own lives, and keep this whole misogyny thing bowling along.
posted by lucien at 8:15 AM on February 13, 2002

I am apparently Not Getting It. I thought that this was about as funny as razor burn.
posted by Skot at 8:21 AM on February 13, 2002

Mmmm... I think I shall try this experiment myself, except I won't be as much of an asshole as he did.

By the way - nice guys DO NOT finish last. The quiet ones do, but as some of you have already stated, the confident and outgoing nice guys are much luckier with girls than confident/outgoing assholes.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.
posted by spidre at 8:30 AM on February 13, 2002

I vote for "he made it all up".

With a cautious suspicion that Sabastian is actually our friend Mach3avelli, legendary ladies' man.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:11 AM on February 13, 2002

Irontrom, I don't think my response to you was fair. I was annoyed at the issue as a whole, not with you or something you said as such. Sorry to direct it at you.
posted by lucien at 9:49 AM on February 13, 2002

I believe its true. Why not? Girls play games too.
posted by stbalbach at 10:14 AM on February 13, 2002

dan savage addresses the "nice guy" problem pretty well this week.
posted by badstone at 10:18 AM on February 13, 2002

i think the point is if you humiliate someone enough they won't talk about it, and then you're free to strike again!

also the seven habits of sensitive, celibate men (via plastic :)
posted by kliuless at 11:14 AM on February 13, 2002

While I don't know if this particular article is true, I can believe that it is, because I've seen an identical experiment performed myself.

SH, the single greatest bastard ever to walk the face of the earth, bet me that he could sleep with three different girls on three different nights over the '94 Australia Day long weekend. He could be his usual jackass, insulting, drunken self and score, he promised, while I could be as funny, charming and attentive as I wanted to be and get nada. I wanted to bet him money - he said the sex would be its own reward.

Over the next three nights, he slept with a girl from a shoe shop (you look good on your knees; I can see right down your shirt, why don't you try them on and walk around instead - she just blushed and giggled), the girl on drive-thru at Hungry Jacks (he just asked her out, took her to a crap club, made her dance by herself and complained that even after slamming tequila all night her arse still looked fat) and a girl whose shoes he vomited on/near in a beer garden (she was completely sober, but he did the whole sobbing uncontrollably/nobody understands me schtick).

How do I know he really slept with them? Because I had to leave the room (during American Werewolf in London, the bastards) when Shoe Shop Girl put her head in his lap and started blowing him (I was sitting on the other side of her); I slept on the same couch on Sunday night after I found him doing Hungry Jill on my bed ('but your room has air-con...'); and I could hear him spanking (I shit you not - spanking, for fuck's sake) Mother Theresa on Monday evening (at least it was in his pigsty of a room).

I asked them what the hell they saw in him. Seems he was 'confident' and 'outgoing', yet 'vulnerable' and a 'bit insecure', but he was 'funny' (yeah, those 'Hungry Jacks? Hungry Hippo, more like it!' lines were a blast) and 'honest' too.

These were just three ordinary girls. They weren't raging pub sluts. SH's theory? 'You're the one who treats them like objects. I treat them like real people. Real people like to fuck'.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:06 PM on February 13, 2002

ah.. damnit... how immature would it be for me to say "this is all very unfair"? bah... women.
posted by lotsofno at 5:23 PM on February 13, 2002

I gotta agree with SH, the times I've been most successful with women is when I've been on my worst behavior (Not quite that bad, though). Mind you, I wasn't looking for love and got tired of screwing around but man...it's true.
posted by black8 at 5:53 PM on February 13, 2002

The first time I met my to be wife [still is], she was dressed all in white and I called out to our host,
"who invited the f**king nurse," she slept with me that night...
posted by bittennails at 5:57 PM on February 13, 2002