Supremacy Clause, what's that?
March 4, 2015 7:57 AM Subscribe
Alabama Supreme Court Defies Federal Judge, Halts Gay Marriages in an attempt to overrule a federal district court ruling. The full opinion here
This post was deleted for the following reason: Heya, we've got an open recent-developments-in-state-level-SSM post from a couple days ago where this has come up, let's just keep it there for now. -- cortex
I've been following this, and it seems to me of all the social conservative issues to go to the mat over, gay marriage is one that will gain the least sympathy. Hell, even our local Rush Limbaugh wannabee radio host and newspaper columnist has come out in favor of gay marriage. (After a local law enforcement officer was killed in the line of duty and her partner was denied any kind of benefits>)
posted by TedW at 8:07 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 8:07 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
“The ruling of the Alabama Supreme Court offers the most forceful and clearly articulated rebuttal to date of the imaginative arguments for same-sex ‘marriage’ employed by federal courts,” said a statement from the Liberty Counsel...
posted by Behemoth at 8:08 AM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Behemoth at 8:08 AM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
This Reddit comment has a good rundown of the moving parts.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:08 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:08 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wish I had a news channel. I'd have guests on we and could talk about the various ways that Conservatives hate America and Freedom and really, they have no respect for the Constitution at all.
The hate mail and death threats would be glorious.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:09 AM on March 4, 2015
The hate mail and death threats would be glorious.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:09 AM on March 4, 2015
And once again Judge Roy Moore becomes exhibit "A" as to why an elected judiciary is a horrible idea.
posted by TedW at 8:11 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by TedW at 8:11 AM on March 4, 2015
Oh hey, activist judges.
posted by phooky at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by phooky at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
Aw, man. I'd gotten the impression that the defiant stance was all Chief Justice Moore's doing, and that the other justices were mildly embarrassed by it. Ugh.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by Rhaomi at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015
This is Judge Roy Moore positioning himself to be removed from the bench (AGAIN) in order to continue his work with the Sucker Evangelicals Into Paying Poor Martyred Roy Moore A Fuckton Of Money Foundation.
It pays WAY better than being a state Supreme Court judge. He had a taste of it last time around and found it to his liking; how's that old saying go? "Paris vaut bien une messe"? Well mail fraud vaut bien a second impeachment these days.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
It pays WAY better than being a state Supreme Court judge. He had a taste of it last time around and found it to his liking; how's that old saying go? "Paris vaut bien une messe"? Well mail fraud vaut bien a second impeachment these days.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2015 [5 favorites]
This is what happens when you elect the judiciary.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grown-ass babies throwing a tantrum over the world changing in a way that makes them feel old and not in charge any longer.
posted by sallybrown at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 8:13 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is Judge Roy Moore positioning himself to be removed from the bench (AGAIN)
Saddle up the horse!
posted by sallybrown at 8:14 AM on March 4, 2015
Saddle up the horse!
posted by sallybrown at 8:14 AM on March 4, 2015
From the Washington Post article: "Moore did not take part in yesterday’s ruling."
This cannot (all) be laid at his feet. It is clear that most of the rest of the justices of the Alabama Supreme Court are equally extremist.
posted by jedicus at 8:15 AM on March 4, 2015
This cannot (all) be laid at his feet. It is clear that most of the rest of the justices of the Alabama Supreme Court are equally extremist.
posted by jedicus at 8:15 AM on March 4, 2015
To give you an idea of how stupid the legal argument behind this is, Mr. Machine is a lawyer and ex-litigator. We were in bed this morning with the radio this morning, dozing and trying to get up the energy to. Y'know. Abandon our nice warm flannel sheets for slushageddeon. Life is hard, etc.
. . . and then they got to the bit where the state supreme court was claiming to overrule a federal court on a matter of interpreting the federal constitution.
Mr. Machine sat bolt-upright in bed and yelled WHAT???? loud enough that I think our neighbors heard him.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:15 AM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
. . . and then they got to the bit where the state supreme court was claiming to overrule a federal court on a matter of interpreting the federal constitution.
Mr. Machine sat bolt-upright in bed and yelled WHAT???? loud enough that I think our neighbors heard him.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:15 AM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I can't wait for the picture of Roy Moore positioning himself in the courthouse door blocking two men holding hands from entering.
posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on March 4, 2015
Oh good, I was worried that we wouldn't get a stand in the (court)house door.
posted by supercres at 8:16 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by supercres at 8:16 AM on March 4, 2015
I don't know anything about the constitutional issues involved, but I smiled at the advertisements (PDF) that some group called Americans United is apparently running.
IF YOU LISTEN TO MOORE, THE FOLLOWING WILL HAPPEN:posted by No-sword at 8:17 AM on March 4, 2015 [8 favorites]
YOU WILL BE SUED.
YOU WILL LOSE.
YOU WILL FACE STEEP ATTORNEY'S FEES.
DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF DENYING ALABAMA CITIZENS THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND DEFYING A FEDERAL COURT'S ORDER. YOU WILL REGRET IT.
Man, the Alabama Supreme Court is just begging for an ass-kicking.
posted by imnotasquirrel at 8:18 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by imnotasquirrel at 8:18 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know anything about the constitutional issues involved, but I smiled at the advertisements (PDF) that some group called Americans United is apparently running.
"Americans United" is Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
"Americans United" is Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
I can't wait for the picture of Roy Moore positioning himself in the courthouse door blocking two men holding hands from entering.
Don't be ridiculous, what if they touch him? He cannot risk infection.
posted by Behemoth at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
Don't be ridiculous, what if they touch him? He cannot risk infection.
posted by Behemoth at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
Moore didn't take part in yesterday's ruling because he was with his dear friend and close colleague Mike Hubbard, the chairman of the Alabama Republican Party and Speaker of the state house, a man so politically toxic he needs to be handled with tongs and a biohazard suit.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
The last time the South threw a tantrum this big, we had a war over it. And that got me thinking: I don't think most of the troops who fought for the Confederacy were, themselves, intrinsically evil. Sure, they took up arms to defend an evil system, but there was some rational self-interest involved; the Southern economy did depend on slavery, and without it their own livelihoods were at risk.
But this? There's no such rationalization. Legalization of same-sex marriage would harm literally nobody. This is hundred-percent pure assholery and nothing else.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
But this? There's no such rationalization. Legalization of same-sex marriage would harm literally nobody. This is hundred-percent pure assholery and nothing else.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:19 AM on March 4, 2015
I suspect they have overstepped. They're inviting a more strongly worded (and perhaps swifter) opinion from the Supreme Court than there might otherwise have been.
Time, perhaps, for another Cooper v. Aaron.
posted by jedicus at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2015
Time, perhaps, for another Cooper v. Aaron.
posted by jedicus at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2015
some group called Americans United
I love how that they make "for the Separation of Church and State" reeeeally small on the flyer being handed out in Alabama.
posted by supercres at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2015
I love how that they make "for the Separation of Church and State" reeeeally small on the flyer being handed out in Alabama.
posted by supercres at 8:20 AM on March 4, 2015
Oh hey, activist judges.
I realize that's the joke, but who's to say which court is the activist court? The federal court saying state statutes from the 1970s and a constitutional provision from the last decade violate the Federal Constitution? Or the state court saying 'no they don't'?
I mean, until five lawyers tell us what rights we do or do not have in the next few months, this is precisely an unsettled area of law where reasonable minds can disagree. Hard to accuse anyone of activism there, especially the party advocating the status quo until the U.S. Supreme Court weighs in.
posted by resurrexit at 8:21 AM on March 4, 2015
I realize that's the joke, but who's to say which court is the activist court? The federal court saying state statutes from the 1970s and a constitutional provision from the last decade violate the Federal Constitution? Or the state court saying 'no they don't'?
I mean, until five lawyers tell us what rights we do or do not have in the next few months, this is precisely an unsettled area of law where reasonable minds can disagree. Hard to accuse anyone of activism there, especially the party advocating the status quo until the U.S. Supreme Court weighs in.
posted by resurrexit at 8:21 AM on March 4, 2015
The last time the South threw a tantrum this big, we had a war over it.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:21 AM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:21 AM on March 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
This is a kind of scary place. Alabama is asserting that its SC is supreme to all federal courts, or at least, all federal courts up to the Circuit. We're heading into Andrew Jackson's infamous "They've made their ruling, now let's see them enforce it" territory.
When the Circuit tells them to go to hell, are they going to wait for SCOTUS? Are you going to cite them for contempt? What does that even mean in this case?
(on preview)
The last time the South threw a tantrum this big, we had a war over it.
Yes, which is why I'm a hair nervous about this. Then again, if this is what they want to go to war over, what can we do?
posted by eriko at 8:22 AM on March 4, 2015
When the Circuit tells them to go to hell, are they going to wait for SCOTUS? Are you going to cite them for contempt? What does that even mean in this case?
(on preview)
The last time the South threw a tantrum this big, we had a war over it.
Yes, which is why I'm a hair nervous about this. Then again, if this is what they want to go to war over, what can we do?
posted by eriko at 8:22 AM on March 4, 2015
I was teaching the little rock crisis on monday to a couple kids and woah deja vu.
posted by lownote at 8:23 AM on March 4, 2015
posted by lownote at 8:23 AM on March 4, 2015
I don't think most of the troops who fought for the Confederacy were, themselves, intrinsically evil. Sure, they took up arms to defend an evil system, but there was some rational self-interest involved; the Southern economy did depend on slavery, and without it their own livelihoods were at risk.
I'm related to some of them. I feel confident calling evil anyone who voluntarily defended the owning of other human beings, and if hell exists, I hope fondly they are burning there. Denying someone the right to marry is not even in the same universe as defending slavery or defending segregation (over which there was no war).
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm related to some of them. I feel confident calling evil anyone who voluntarily defended the owning of other human beings, and if hell exists, I hope fondly they are burning there. Denying someone the right to marry is not even in the same universe as defending slavery or defending segregation (over which there was no war).
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 AM on March 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
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posted by a lungful of dragon at 8:02 AM on March 4, 2015 [3 favorites]